The Mandalorian and the Real Wild West
Вставка
- Опубліковано 1 січ 2020
- Support Out of Frame on Patreon: / outofframeshow
Watch our newest video, "The 1970s are back. Yaaaayyyy.": • The 1970s are back. Ya...
Check out our podcast, Out of Frame: Behind the Scenes: / @outofframebts
"The Mandalorian" on Disney+ is built on a ton of classic Western movie tropes. Mando is frequently seen as the lone rider who comes to town, discovers a problem and solves it by being a superior gunslinger -- like Clint Eastwood in "A Fistful of Dollars".
And that's what most of us think about when we imagine the "Wild West", but are those tropes even real? Was the old West as "wild" as we think?
Find out in this first edition of Out of Frame Shorts.
______________________________
CREDITS:
Produced by Sean W. Malone
Written by Sean W. Malone, Paul Nelson, and Jennifer Maffessanti
Edited by Paul Nelson & Sean W. Malone
______________________________
LINKS:
fee.org/articles/the-little-k...
mises.org/library/not-so-wild...
history.howstuffworks.com/ame...
www.researchgate.net/publicat...
Please do more of these! I’m a Social Science teacher and my kids love anything that helps me relate what we’re studying in history or current events to popular culture. These are invaluable for me!
Hi Tina, thanks for your kind words! If you liked this, you'll be interested to hear about our Economics & Government program where we bring professors to your school for an interactive workshop with your students. Check it out! fee.org/eg
Don't use this one. His western discussion is all wrong.
@@mikeotoole1889 it's backed by several papers and sources. Feel free to challenge any of them.
@@mikeotoole1889 Please, we are still waiting for your counter argument, you said Fee was wrong, where is your counter argument. It's easy to talk on utube but harder to back up.
"The Mandalorian" is one of the few things Disney has done *right* with Star Wars...
Trust me when I say it was a fluke. Especially consider they might just hand it off to a certain director.
Indeed. I hope it stays good.
I wouldn't say so. Just one of the least wrong things they've done.
@@DBArtsCreators I like it quite a bit. It's a tad light on plot but they have nailed the characters and I much more care about characters than plot, honestly. Characters, acting and action... which are all pretty good.
If it was any other company I feel like it'd be way worse though. They need to give creative liberty to a fan and just provide the money and merchandising. I think that's what they've generally done, and while the sequels have their problems I'm sure in 20 years people will realize the old Star Wars movies were just as "bad" as these. The newer stuff has just been more heavily scrutinized. Star Wars has always had frequent inconsistencies, retconns, and unrealistic (even for sci fi) moments. I for one am satisfied with the ending and still enjoyed more than disliked every movie and series so far.
I like out of frame. Also I love how you accurately described how western life was like. So many on one side of the argument will claim that the west wasn't as armed or dangerous as movies depict and so many on the other side will claim that it was a hellscape with apaches and outlaws lurking around every corner.
Whereas I am a native American who grew up out west and spent my childhood devouring old letters and journals stored in the Meetesee town library where I lived. I learned a lot of how life was in the ages before I was born and it was fascinating.
Western life was tough and people were often clannish and fearful of strangers because they were an unknown. Neighboring ranchers and tribes had peace between them because nobody wanted to cause a fight that would result in further consequences. But rustlers and other outlaws were definitely a concern since a crew of rustlers could skip a few towns over and be consequence free after a theft since there wasn't much infastructure to apprehend them. Law enforcement was mostly locally present and didn't travel far. Bounties were mostly there to deincetivize people from theft or murder for fear of being hunted. Bounty hunters weren't often professional and usually were a few local cattle hands who happened upon a wanted criminal and had a need for quick cash.
Many times criminals who roamed the countryside were often poor folks who had lost their homes or farmers to any number of disasters and saw crime is their only opportunity to thrive again. Most of them were not even violent since ultimately they didn't want to hurt anyone, they just needed money, Opting to run instead of facing the classic gunfight.
Overall the western was a tense and carefully armed time but not a chaotic one.
I love comments like this! Super interesting and valuable contribution to the conversation :)
Glad to see another one of these. I would be fine with a short or two every now and again.
We're going to try to do at least 2 a month, though it may take us a second to get off the ground. I can't do quite as much on the production and writing side if we're going to get faster at making them, so we'll see.
@@FEEonline I'd recommend quality over quantity (even if the algorithm hates that). And be careful of burnout!
the video starts : "if you've been watching the mandalorian on disney plus..."
actually I've been watching the mandalorian on torrent plus
Hello Hondo!
This man speaks the truth
The Foundation has been officially introduced throught the beloved cult of 🅱🅱 Yoda
Out of frame's strength imo is its well thought out in depth discussions. I think these shorter versions will greatly diminish that aspect as you're limited by the time. I personally rather infrequent longer episodes.
However, that being said if you have an idea but it can't really support a longer out of frame episode then I think this format would be good to express those smaller ideas.
I agree and will absolutely continue to do monthly long format pieces. But there are often smaller, single-point ideas like this that I'd like cover and this seems like a good way to do that.
I love OOF it's by far the best thing FEE puts out and I'd love to see and share more of these every month! keep up the great work y'all.
This is the way!
As long as it doesn't affect the long episodes I like this. The more OOF the better!
Definitely still doing full length features :)
"If the
Mandalorian wants to find peace for himself and the child they'll have to find a new home that limits the authority of government and values individual freedom." This is my hope for my child, too.
Thanks for the video! However, I personally prefer the more in-depth, longer video format, even if it means with a lower frequency. Happy new year !
Longer form episodes aren't going away. They will still come out once a month.
This is the way.
LeonFuego
This is the way
I have spoken.
This is the way
This is the Way
Love it. Is a good starting point for a conversation
This format is good for getting people into this channel.
It's informative and delivered still at a relaxed pace, doesn't feel rushed or TMI.
But I still like the longer videos, this one feels a bit short to a long time fan
Personally, I like the long format most. I feel like I become an expert in the topic whereas this video simply piqued my interest. But I guess that's fine because you share articles for further reading that I always tell myself I'll get to, haha. Thanks, Sean!
Love these put of frame videos keep it up guys
I think the quality of this short was just as good as past episodes, but I must admit that I like the longer format more. I think that it gives more time for the topic of choice to be explored and explained. This series helps me to develop my own opinions in an entertaining and relaxing way and I've watched every episode more than once. Either way, whatever is planned for the future of "Out of Frame" I will be happily looking forward to it.
Appreciate that. But don't worry, the next full length episode will be out next week.
New Sub. I like this format.
The short format is great, as it will likely help drill the focus to a main point. The longer form videos are fine for those topics where you need to display a number of clips to build out the evidence backing your more esoteric (or multi-layered) thesis.
I am trying to think of a name for these, besides just "Out of Frame Shorts." I do like separating them in a playlist, because you might catch people who want to snack on smaller bites. But a catchy name might help too.
You upload an _Out of Frame,_ I'll watch it!
Love your videos short or long I'll watch them
short concise and very informative i like it
Suggested topic for a future episode of out of frame: Code Geass and how people's genuine belief that their intents are 'just' allow them to justify immoral actions (bonus points for the real-world example of the Gulag Archipelago).
Good explaination.
This was a great video. I love he dollars trilogy and I haven’t seen mandolorian yet. It’s very interesting how it seems to realistically captures the West. I think I might check it out.
I really like these videos and hope to see a lot more "Out of Frame" videos from FEE.
Hey FEE, thank you so much for exploring these kinds of themes in popular culture! If I may suggest, I would love to see you guys' perspective on "Two Popes", especially Francis' way of looking at Free Market Economy...cheers!
Haven't seen it yet!
Sime interesting things to note.
Cowboys were actually more afraid of Farmers, since the farmers normally had guns and cowboys normally didn't, and even when they did they would have them all stored so as not to cause problems.
Another interesting bit is that gun laws were actually pretty strict in most places. So the large scale shootouts between towns and bandits was actually mostly just a couple sherrifs vs a couple bandits. And individual gangs were seldom as big as they are shown in movies.
Thank you! I like these videos - more please. :-)
I would love a full video on the Mandolrian!
Anything that will let you upload more quality content is great. I don’t prefer shorter vids (plus FEE has other short-format vids), but some subjects probably don’t need the longer treatment. Publish whatever inspires you. Keep up the fantastic work!
Loved it!
Loved your video I mean. I haven't seen the Mandalorian.
Another good episode, though I would point out that government abuses of Indians was happening during and before the Civil War. The Sand Creek Massacre in 1864 comes to mind.
Absolutely. It's impossible to get into all that in such a short episode, but the US Government was awful to indigenous people from essentially the beginning of their interactions... The Bureau of Indian Affairs is still a major Federal agency and they have a tremendous amount of control over the reservations.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_of_Indian_Affairs
We talk a lot on this channel about the failures of central economic planning, and in fact that's *exactly* the case with Indian Reservations. Far from being sovereign or in any way independent, the US Federal government controls almost everything that they're allowed to do. FEE did a good article about this a few years ago.
fee.org/articles/five-ways-the-government-keeps-native-americans-in-poverty/
@@FEEonline exactly, you people took the part that fits in your narrative and ignored the rest.
@@chthonianboy well... No. Not really.
What we said here is quite true, and fairly well supported (see also the links and the book referenced in the video). The government did all kinds of horrible things that made the "west" in the US much more violent than it started out as being and that ramped up considerably after the Civil War.
It is obviously impossible to cover *everything* in a short video. Heck, it's impossible even in a long video.
So did we cut out a tremendous amount of history? Of course.
Does that mean we cherry picked the parts to leave in, in order to say something that wasn't actually true?
Absolutely not.
Foundation for Economic Education
“FEE did a good article about this a few years ago.”
*insert Obama giving Obama a medal*
Juat to let you guys know. The Mandalorian clan is basically space Libertarian Sparta.
Excellent
Honestly, it cut to the end credits and I said "what?? That's it??" I thoroughly enjoyed this, and while I don't have much to contribute in terms of 18th century western US history, I'd love to see more of these! Just as long as they don't take away from the longer peices 😉
out of frame is one my favorite segments FEE does
This channel only produces amazing content.
Wow.
"I like it
Aha aha
I like it"
was good overview of that genre
Well, Star Wars is literally inspired as a Western that happens in a galaxy far, far away.
Sort of. It's got a lot of Western elements, but a more direct connection for Lucas was the Samurai films of Akira Kurasawa. Of course, Seven Samurai was the inspiration for the Magnificent Seven, so there's a lot of overlapping style and themes.
nice video
Mixing space adventure and the western genre? Heck yeah
Yes. More please
Will you do a video on how Disney is trying to limit competition and how that is bad for the consumer? They are stopping theaters from playing old fox movies now that they bought fox. They are also pushing other movies out of theaters, by forcing theaters to show more screenings of their films or not get the films at all. There are more examples. “Just write” made a good video explaining some of the harms of what Disney is doing.
And legit price gouging. I'm a nerd and for nerd things I have a high budget and threshold for what I consider overpriced. A holocron that's only function is moving corners and lights up is not worth 50 fucking dollars. I play Warhammer 40K if I find that holocron not to be worth the money yet 40K miniatures to be worth it then you known something is wrong with Disney.
I generally don't agree with these arguments, though... and did a pretty substantial episode about Disney+ that included some discussion of all this last month:
ua-cam.com/video/yfjBUeF1avk/v-deo.html
Foundation for Economic Education I don’t mean Disney + necessarily but more the films Disney released in theaters. For instance, with Star Wars, Disney said theaters could only show the film if they showed it for a certain amount of screenings, forcing theaters to either not show the film or show it for more than they would otherwise. This limits the ability for audiences to see other films. Also keep in mind Disney can advertise their films for free on ABC and ESPN since they own those channels.
Also Disney won’t let theaters show old fox movies anymore so young people can’t have the experience of seeing some of these old films in a theater.
@@richardsreviews8820 Fox used to charge theaters licensing fees and undoubtedly also had restrictions on how their content could be shown. I would not look at a change that's happened in the short term around a big merger and assume it is a disaster.
More!
Love it. Most people really don't know how a limited or even a nearly nonexistent government can work better than a huge government like ours does. Please do more like this.
Amazed the Tuscan raider scene did not come up.
I prefer a longer format videos but these are good too
I like this video format. I just hope it doesn't affect the other Out of Frame format (15-20 minute videos). I think both formats can complement each other.
Real Wild West? Isn't that RDR2?
R2D2? Lol
RDR2
This was good.
One idea I find interesting that is kind of similar to the Mandalorian is Anarcho-Frontierism, basically a transhumanist ideology that says anarchy can only exist on the frontier, and since the Earth is more or less fully colonized, space will be the one true Wild West in the future.
More videos!
Star Wars atmosphere was very much supposed to be based on a "wild west in space". Hence the depiction of the planet of Tatooine being very "western" and wild.
Oh! Good video. I just wanted to mention one thing. In "The Mandalorian," the Empire has already collapsed. This video made it sound like the Empire was still in power, which to a small extent, I guess it was. But, the Empire, in most respects, had been overthrown.
It's all Imperial soldiers and storm troopers chasing them. Still in power enough.
It's actually one of the more interesting aspects of the show for me, tbh. Just because the Emperor gets killed doesn't mean the millions of supporters, thousands of soldiers, the governors, generals, and everyone else loyal to the Empire just disappear.
A lot of the new Star Wars movies don't add a lot to the universe in a realistic way in my opinion. But The Mandalorian does in part because it shows what things are like for regular people who don't have any connection to big space battles and political changes.
@@FEEonline You are very right! I really enjoy that aspect of the remnant Empire. I also was overjoyed to see death troopers involved. Just because the government is gone, the Empire remains. Only a show like the Mandalorian could nail such themes the way they did. I appreciate your reply.
I prefer your longer ones to be honest.
Thomas Sowell "Weighing benefits against costs is the way most people make decisions - and the way most businesses make decisions, if they want to stay in business. Only in government is any benefit, however small, considered to be worth any cost, however large."
Both the Mandalorian and the old western films are all Samurai stories retold.
Liked the format, but enjoy the longer episodes more.
Lone wolf and cub.
Cool
So you’re saying I love Westerners but I never knew😭😭
I don't like your normal out of frame series because you usually spend so much time explaining things that it feels patronizing. But I liked this because it felt concise and informative
In your essays about the connection between State Power and violence have you ever considered the high-levels of violence among tribal people like the Dani of New Guinea or Yanomami in Brazil, or archaeological evidence for high levels of violence in the Stone Age? Writers like Jared Diamond and Stephen Pinker have convinced me that the historical development of the state dramatically reduced violence overall. But I would love to see you make a counter-argument with some evidence.
Hans Hermann Hoppe wrote a great critique of Pinker's views, I recommend it. He also wrote about the violence in hunter-gatherer communities in 'A Short History of Man', but instead of the ermegence of the state, he attributes the reduction in violence to family structures and private property.
I'm subscribing to your channel for more OOF content.
Ive been watching the Mandalorian but not on Disney plus.
If you read a bit of star wars lore, you would know that Mandalore was embroiled in constant war, pretty much until the Empire got there.
The planet has been physically torn apart from all the wars since ancient times.
Trade and commerce my ass.
Sadly it's inescapable, a centralized hierarchy call it a government or a corporation can more easily acquire a monopoly on violence. Untill there are technologies that allow individuals or small groups to have the same...
Government is not inescapable. mate. Humans lived quite some time without states.
It’s very ironic how people say nowadays “oh, the west actually had more government power then, it was better for it.” Neglecting how native Americans were treated and the fact that the less law they had the more peaceful they were.
Perhaps not as good as your other episodes. But, if that's all that you've got to say, then that's alright. Overall, I think that you're doing a fine job, and I have no suggestions for improvement at present. :)
The outer rim is the star wars Galaxy's wild west
Firefly is the best sci-fi western that explores the overreach of a centralized authoritarian power.
Out of Frame is one of my favorite things Fee puts out, i do prefer the longer videos however i can see the appeal of multiple short ones.
Yeah, because the government is established to manage resources for the benefit of people within their controlled territory. The problem starts when the government decided to exercise their authority over territory that isn't under their jurisdiction. Simply because they can and believe they are obligated to do so.
I don't like how this basically compares the US government to the Galactic Empire. Limited government is one thing, but limits on government power to the point that they become nonexistent and people have to form vigilante groups to provide security is another.
LIKE, MORE, LIKE MORE, LIKE MORE...
That’s what the new movies got wrong. The original Star Wars really has a western theme that the new movies didn’t have. The mandalorian nailed it
Interesting. Peace can be found by LESS CENTRALIZED GOVERNMENT and MORE PERSONAL FREEDOM. I live in the west. My great grandparents caught the tail end of the “Wild West.” I also grew up in a peculiarly religious state that has had our own share of “difficulties” with the strong federal government. I grew up not really trusting them. Still don’t. When my ancestors settled here is was part of Mexico. We had to leave the country of religious freedom to get religious freedom. Thomas Jefferson said it best. “The best government is local government.” “The most terrifying words in the English language are ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” - President Reagan.
Fun fact most western take inspiration from samurai movies
i dont like the like subscribe notifications thing in the intro, i have to admit that you guys dont say it in your video but it kinda ruins the feeling of your calm, informing videos.
i will like after all though
edit:im not too sure rn i mean subscribe at the end was pretty calm
It's not my favorite either, tbh... But UA-cam is a tough platform to get traction on, so we have to nudge a little harder.
This is kinda inaccurate. Local citizen militias were very harsh (Many towns actually forbade guns from being brought in) and things were not settled individually for most people. Local communities could be very strict, insular, and violence was indeed very common. I think this video also downplays the fact that many towns ASKED for federal assistance during the late expansion.
What I learned from this
Government ruins everything
The real Outer Rim*
Long format is better.
10 mins at least...
I would have gone all Anakin Skywalker on the Child. I hate him.
The new republic is small government the galactic empire is big government, prove me wrong
Merchanaries and uber centralozation are unexpectedly bad; like; really; seriously *bad*
Not sure if you are joking, but mercenaries are a good thing. You just have propaganda because the state hates competition. World trade would basically stop due to piracy if it wasn't for mercenary crews. The only time mercenaries are intrinsically bad is when they are paid with taxpayer money. You have the natural right to defend yourself, you can ethically delegate rights you have to others.
@@nustada *Government Owned Mercanaries/which were the english empire's pirates; are bad :p
@@thedoruk6324 America also used privateers, for a long while. Lots of countries did. Privateers were generally bad, because it was authorized theft. That is different than mercenaries.
@@nustada Valid point; but weren't the government owned mercentile companies made hell loose on Iraq ?
@@thedoruk6324 The American government did that. If mercenaries did something unethical, it was because politicians paid them to; they bear the guilt.
If someone hires a mercenary to commit an assassination, the person who hired them is still guilty of murder.
So star wars became better when it became Star trek/a western in space.
And star trek became its worst when it became star wars/a space fantasy.
Truth.
Before we blame government intervention for every ill, keep in mind that there are exceptions. For example, "Bleeding Kansas" was "frontier" before the Civil War. That situation could've used MORE government intervention, and sooner.
I'd also like to point out that two of the first three big shootouts in the series were not at all about the Empire's expansion, but rather about bounty hunters making a living... which I'd call a prime example of unbridled capitalism.
Finally, the AT-ST depicted here was not being used by the Empire or its remnants at all, but rather actual (non-corporate) raiders.
That's not to say life was better under the Empire. It had plenty of its own criminal elements, many of which the Emperor purposefully ignored. The same is true of the Republic, the criminal elements of which Sidious and previous Sith Lords helped foster from behind the scenes.
Let's just call it what it is: government can do good, or it can do evil.
Nah bleeding Kansas was the fault of the government as well. Remember why bleeding kansas happened. It wasnt just the fact that pro and anti slavers fought for political control of the state, but the fact the government encouraged this conflict to happen in the first. Dont get me wrong I acknowledge governments can do good, but only if they have the peoples interest in mind, in which most cases the government only cares about control.
Wrong. The federal government was initially properly doing its job - which at the time was allowing the people of the territory to choose which way Kansas would go (slave or free) as a state by a majority vote. Its mistake was failing to step in once the population war morphed into an actual war.
@@grantjohnson5785 remember though why they let them choose. They only did it because the Missouri compromise failed, not because they cared about the people. Had the government not had parties in the first place like george washington suggested, bleeding Kansas may have never occurred or at the very least not escalate the way it did
Pretty much *none* of the Founding Fathers really wanted political parties. But, people invariably tend to self-segregate on the basis of deeply-held personal beliefs (if nothing else), and political parties inevitably form as a result.
Remember that the Missouri compromise was only undertaken because a very small minority of the US population wanted to keep 4 million other people enthralled so that they (that minority) could stay rich. It took "big government" and a civil war to finally end slavery because that minority just would not budge... again, an inevitable result of opposing and mutually exclusive belief systems.
@@grantjohnson5785 again, no. When the constitution was first drafted you had the virginia plan and the New Jersey plan. The legislative branch is a compromise between those two states. The house of representatives was proposed by the Virginia plan with only one house, while the Jersey plan proposed the senate and a bicameral legislative. Another compromise they made was the 3/5ths compromise, in which the smaller states said that it would be disproportional to count slaves as citizens, since they would undoubtedly give slave states more representaitves. And no, there was no small percentage. Northern states benefited from slavery as the southern states did during the missouri compromise. If there was any reason the north and south fought it was mostly political and somewhat social. Yes, people would've divided themselves regardless of who was in charge, which is why the founders had explicitly made the electoral college. So yes, like I said before government can be helpful, but I highly doubt the prelude to the civil war was caused entirely by a lack of government intervention.
FEE "Everything bad is the fault of the government and private individuals are incapable of bad"
I don’t know that I’ve ever heard anyone from FEE argue that government is intrinsically bad, only that it can change power dynamics which incentivizes people to use the power of government to implement their preferences.
It’s not that governments are all bad, or that all individuals are saints, it’s more that government decisions are orders of magnitude more impactful than what an individual can do so it needs greater restraint.
Whereas individuals are much more closely matched in strength and resources and have something personal to lose should an agreement be unreachable, incentivizing them to make peace and be willing to compromise.
Why does FEE even bother with stuff that's not freedom toons? lol
Are you a libertarian or just a rightwing economist. I'm fine with both
I watched the entire series, and I couldn't help but see the socialist agenda being played out by the New Order through the whole thing. It's even more predominant in "The Resistance" cartoon series.
Kinda sounds like you're advocating for anarcho communism...
I love you guys, but holy shit this video has really bad history.
tbh I found the Mandalorian really boring, better then usual Disney trash, but that's not a high bar, I still call Legends Mandalorians superior in every way.
If we're using the Star Wars example, remember that the Outer Rim worlds were completely neglected by the degenerated democratic Republic, and totally exploited for the economic gain of the elite (i.e. the type of people who donate to FEE in real life).
Whoa, so I'm the elite? Excellent! Next thing you'll be calling me erudite!
Big Star Wars fail here man. Remember that the Clone Wars started because Dooku had a legit gripe (though his own methods were bad) against the centralized Republic that often extracted resources from the Outer Rim Worlds but gave them nothing in return especially in terms of security. This is why most planets that joined the CIS were Outer Rim planets because they were the most neglected by the Republic. Because of Palpatine's plan to spread the Jedi to make Order 66 really easy, the Outer Rim Worlds were orchestrated to be the main fronts for the Clone Wars and extreme violence was sanctioned by Chancellor Palpatine/Sidious just like how in the Civil War the central government went hard on eradicating the Indian tribes because of Manifest Destiny/economic interests with expanding (the government owned) railroads westward.
I also don't get how you seem to ignore that the economic elite you mention was also head of a very centralized government as Palpatine was the richest and most well connected person in the galaxy. The type of person who many socialists/big government people hope will somehow pass policies that "benefit everyone" when in reality that person uses the power to gain unlimited control which happens in just about every socialist/communist system. Remember that as Palpatine turned the Republic into the Empire he claimed to be doing it for "peace", "order", "equality", etc. What type of people (who are of a certain political persuasion in terms of authority vs liberty) often claim this is what they are doing when they pass laws that further limit individual freedom?