For context, who on Earth drives from Bakersfield to Palmdale? Who on earth would want to: 1. Drive to Bakersfield station 2. Park there 3. Wait for a train 4. Arrive at Palmdale (in 45 minutes rather than 1.5 hours) 5. Look for transportation at Palmdale (wait for a bus?)
@@WeakSous California could potentially fund the remainder of the IOS (Merced-Bakersfield) on its own and launch revenue service sometime in the 2030s. Getting beyond the Valley anytime quickly (before the 2040s) will require federal funding.
Anyone who knows this project knows there are expert engineers designing and building it, and expertise from other high speed rail systems weighing in. They also know Cities Skylines is a video game (and a fun one), not reality.
Why should this section be prioritized? HSR is for people transport and that means cities. San to LA or LA to SF should be priorities. Even LA to Vegas would seemingly be a higher priority than this.
@@spencerjoplin2885it’s actually not. The Bakersfield-Palmdale segment is estimated at $17.1 billion, while Merced-San Jose is $19.6 billion. That said, going to SF next has greater payoffs for HSR, not just connecting the Central Valley and Bay Area with a new, faster mode of travel than driving, but also make statewide SF-LA travel competitive with driving, even with the I-5 bus bridge. Reaching Palmdale will eliminate the need for the bus bridge and allow the all-rail journey between LA and SF. Both need to happen no matter what.
@@emmanuelgoldstein1918 I’m sure there were many who looked at the Interstates the same way. Or the space program. Or at the first cars. Or at the early railroads, and even the canals. How about all the things in our modern lives that all were once new concepts? Every thing, regardless of how popular it might be, will always have its critics who’ll do any and everything they can to make their point. We’re at where we are now because of change, of new ideas and things that people were no doubt hesitant toward at first, but as they gradually became part of our lives it’s near impossible to imagine life today without them. Same will be the case with high speed rail. Not just California HSR, but other ongoing projects like Brightline West and Texas Central. Once there’s that first example on US soil that people can ride, there’ll be no going back.
Reading the 2020 HSR forecast the projected fares and expected ridership (i.e. $100 for Anaheim to Millbrae each way per passenger - and $20 for SF to Millbrae). Will only cover at best 50% the projected cost of just operating and maintaining HSR over the next 50 years - not repaying bonds or the initial outlay that's all down to the taxpayer. All this of course also assumes there will not be any catastrophic equipment failures and the inevitable multi-billion dollar cost of litigation! This entire scheme is a massive greenwashing black hole only benefiting politicians, construction companies and lawyers!
At current rates of progress, having started around the same time, Elon will have invented multiple new rockets, spaceships, space based internet, and built bases on both the moon and on Mars, all before California can finish high speed rail. California is totally broken.
I relocated to Palmdale from the San Fernando Valley in 1983, seeking a fresh start. However, I eventually left Palmdale as it transformed into the very environment I wanted to escape-overrun by gangs, crime, and traffic issues. It feels like Palmdale has turned into a cesspool.
And this project segment will cost hundreds of millions of dollars that could have been used to help reverse those downward trends in Palmdale. But that’s OK, because the enviro-progressives will get their shiny new toy train, which will whisk travelers rapidly and stylishly into the cesspool you describe. Crime and traffic in Palmdale really just aren’t progressive concerns, so we should all shut up about them and pretend they don’t exist so progressives can enjoy their project’s triumph over reason and common sense. Oh, wait. They promise that the Palmdale station’s construction will “revitalize downtown.” This means you’ll still get mugged, but it’ll happen amid award-winning architecture and state-of-the-art technology. So that’s OK then, right? Right?
Sounds like it needs some redevelopment. HSR will be a good catalyst for that, just as transit typically is. Increasing mobility encourages development. Cities have grown outward as cars are the primary mode of travel, and as a result life has become built around them, making life more difficult for those who can’t afford a car or are unable to drive. Good transit like HSR encourages development along those transit lines, and walkable neighborhoods around transit stops and stations that include housing, shops, and other necessities, reduces car dependency, opening up more opportunities for people. Reducing the need to drive and making fast travel more accessible to more people creates more equitability.
By 1993 there were already signs of a decline. When Sierra Hwy became a ghost town, it was a wrap for the Downtown Palmdale until the Metrolink station came in.
@@ChrisJones-gx7fc Kind of ironic that the majority of the well paying, plentiful jobs employment environment in Bakersfield until recently was oil companies. There would be a perfect opportunity to bring in workers by rail from places like Palmdale. Now with Newsome driving out Chevron and shutting down the likes of Pyramid, Jaco and Kern Oil who used to have a total workforce well over 20,000 that number is dwindling towards to a handful mostly shutting down and capping wells.
I like how so many people are skeptical that this will get done sooner. Many of the viaducts under construction a decade ago are finished now. We also should not assume anything about whether the federal government will or will not fund the project and should have plans to fund the project on our own. The only people really opposed to CAHSR are the airlines and the auto industry.
for real, well said. Like, it's a HUGE stretch of rail, a highly ambitious project, and they've been making steady progress overall. Good things take time.
Not quite true. Many conservatives and farmland owners were vehemently against it in the beginning for many years. However, many have come around because they've benefitted from all the good paying jobs over the last several years. I don't think there is an organized opposition to this project anymore like there was at the start.
@@mrxman581 Except maybe outside of California. But then Brightline is actually a bit more successful (as in they have success right now) so that might actually motivate our government to continue the work into expanding high speed rail. And finally getting Amtrak to the point where it can be a public-private partnership like JR.
I don't care how, find a way to finish phase 1. *Edit: if there is some good news in-regards to this section: it's that construction in & around Bakersfield should start sometime next year.
After 35 years we've been to Southern California from Nor Cal a few dozen times and since its usually with the family and friends usually just drive unless its for business. The interconnect and queue times are the more significant waste of time. For a 60 minute flight it can take 5-6 hours of elapsed time (you have to add 90 minutes to check in, go through security, wait to board, taxi, fly, land, taxi, pick up bags and head to ground transport) so you might as well drive! Many of the same issues will exist for rail unless you live at a terminus (good for the politicos in Sacramento). The longer travel time pretty much negates the aircraft boarding and security (though I suspect TSA will be screening HSR passengers too).
@@mpwaterhouse there’ll probably be some form of security screening at stations but I seriously doubt they’ll be as rigorous as airports are. They should take less time at stations since there are fewer safety restrictions for a train than a plane.
@@ChrisJones-gx7fc let's hope they would stay that way though safety is one thing, and security another entirely. I have witnessed a passing passenger brandishing a pistol on BART! Lets also hope they do a better job of making sure they are fare-paying passengers riding the rails!
We need to keep the faith for the next few years. Don't let them shutter the project. So much has been accomplished. We just need to wait until the federal government fixes itself.
Worst that’ll likely happen is the incoming administration will try to rescind the IIJA grant like they did with the previous round of federal funding, and prevent the project from getting any more federal funding while they’re in office. If that proves true, the former will just delay the project longer, and the latter will mean California has to fund it on its own. I’m confident California could do that to finish Merced to Bakersfield and begin revenue service by the mid-2030s, plausibly after 2033 with such a delay. Any chance to reach SF or LA anytime in the foreseeable future (before the 2040s) will require at least some federal funding.
I’d argue the 13.5-mile Pacheco Pass tunnel is more crucial to the project’s success, but closing the rail gap between the CV and SoCal is nearly just as important and also needs to happen.
@@gteixeira depends on how quickly it gets funded. CHSRA estimates the 13.5-mile tunnel will take up to six years to build once construction begins. If construction starts in the early 2030s and has minimal delays, HSR trains will reach SF before 2040.
@@rickhicks6833 oh. ok. I guess you've consulted with their engineers to straighten them out. You just insist on displaying your lack of comprehension.
@inyobill well I think my degree in nuclear physics is far ahead of yours. And check out the history of railroads. There's a reason for the tehachipi loop.
@@ArthurDentZaphodBeeb yet not nearly as bad as the alternative of more freeway lanes and airport expansions to carry the same additional capacity of people that HSR will provide. Continuing to expand freeways and airports would be both more expensive and less beneficial. HSR remains the best long term solution to our state’s future intercity travel needs between NorCal and SoCal.
@@ChrisJones-gx7fc The cost to build tunnels will be immense. Think billion dollar and up per mile. London's new train line on flat ground thru urban areas is nearly $500M/mile. Regardless, we won't need to build many more freeways with a declining birthrate. California has pretty much reached max population. Only huge immigration keeps population stable, but with new anti-immigrant policies, the days of large population growth are behind us.
That's not a big deal. In China they have some going 380 feet tall. As far as bridges in general go, The New River Gorge Bridge in WV is 876 feet. High Bridge in KY is 275 feet which was build 150 years ago and still is in use.
@@kneonspace Correct. Highest railway bridge (Müngstener Brücke - not even a HSR bridge) is 351 ft (107 m) high: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Müngsten_Bridge
@@superoffended6737apart from you know, 119 miles of active construction, which will soon be 171 miles. Miles of completed guideway and multiple completed and ongoing structures, many of which are grade separations that are already delivering benefits to local motorists and pedestrians. Electrified Caltrain service between SF and San Jose that was helped paid for by CAHSR and will one day be shared with HSR trains. How about the over 13,000 construction jobs created so far and over $18 billion in economic output for the Central Valley? There’s a lot happening on this project. Go drive Highway 43 and see all the construction, or just go check out all the countless videos and photos uploaded by CAHSR and others online.
Progress on the California HS rail is only about 1/12 the speed that China completes its high-speed rail. Yet I feel certain that funding will continue until it is completed.
U mean the friends and family and buddies of California politicians taking the money and not do very much towards the project. Yeah we all seen this coming. Progressive pie in the sky paradise.
What a great place for the station. Nothing says walkable like having to cross 9 lanes of traffic going 60mph. Surely we have some foresight to actually safely connect the city to the station.
Presumably those areas will be upzoned and redeveloped. It's not like these towns have great walkable downtown cores to begin with, you gotta start somewhere. In any case that's incumbent upon those towns to do it; I'm sure CA HSR picked the best spots available given all those considerations. Granted, I'm being optimistic -- fingers crossed it actually turns out that way! 🤞
Many HSR stations in other countries are not in the middle of a city, especially the smaller stations. They're connected to city centers via other modes of transit.
Then we should also stop wasting money on freeway expansions that are proven to make traffic worse. California spent more money on freeways last year alone ($18 billion) than the total amount spent on HSR so far ($12 billion), and the cost to build the equivalent capacity of HSR in additional freeway lanes and airport expansions would cost 1.5 times more than SF-Anaheim HSR will (up to $253 billion compared to $128 billion for HSR), and be less beneficial as no amount of lanes will make the drive any faster nor will any amount of airport gates and runways make flying any less of a hassle.
@ChrisJones-gx7fc the difference is that nothing gets transported on the bullet train except people. No food, gasoline, medical supplies, etc. Police, ambulances, fire trucks, etc. aren't going to be able to use this to perform their duties. You can't get to work, school, the hospital, the grocery store on the bullet train. Once you get off of the train how are you going to get to where you want to go? This will be just like all of the other failing tax subsidized mass transportation systems in CA that nobody uses. The state will raise taxes to pay for the operation and maintenance of this because it will not make enough money to pay for itself. Its a money Sinkhole with very little benefit. This is just a payback to the unions. Union people will build it, operate it and maintain it. And CA taxpayers will foot the bill with increasing taxes for decades.
@@ubb4me airplanes don’t carry any of that stuff either, or help out emergency services on the ground. Should we ditch air travel too? That gets subsidized every year much like Amtrak does. Transit in general is about providing a service, not to make a profit. There are a lot of things and services the US wouldn’t have if the only objective was to make a profit, including those same emergency services. Roads in the US are overbuilt and overused (and also don’t make a profit, sans toll roads) cause we got rid of a lot of our transit, and the places here that have transit have millions of riders every year. Cars are expensive and not everyone can afford them, or are able to drive them. Rail and transit in general increases mobility for everyone and provides an alternative to driving, which in turn reduces demand on roads and helps save money on not having to repair them as much. We spend far more on roads every year than we ever will on HSR. Just cause you and your corner of the world may not use it, doesn’t mean there aren’t millions of Californians who will. The millions who travel between the Bay Area and SoCal every year, and between those places and the Central Valley. Obviously this won’t eliminate driving, or air travel, just as it hasn’t anywhere else, but it’ll provide another option, one that will connect with regional and local transit throughout the state to help get people to and from their Points A & B. They’ll also be able to drive themselves to a station or have someone give them a ride, just as with air travel. The Central Valley stations even call for rental car facilities.
@@ChrisJones-gx7fc Airplanes carry a huge amount of goods and services. Amazon, DHL, FedEx, UPS, etc. all use airplanes to deliver their goods and services. In state emergencies airplanes carry emergency personnel and supplies to the affected site, not to one location. I'm not saying the HSR needs to make a profit, but the benefits don't outweigh the costs. Where is the HSR going to get a reliable, affordable electrical supply? PG&E? This whole project is just about funneling money to the same old people. I respect your point of view and think your heart is in the right place. I just disagree. Have a good one.
Imagine if we had instead invested $135 Billion into coastal Ground Effect passenger vehicles skimming several meters over the water. They can hit 360 knots but cruise very efficiently at 200 knots (less than 50% of a traditional aircraft) they could use traditional fuel, hydrogen and/or electric. They are relatively storm resilient though during periods of unusually high waves would require traveling further from the shore. You just need a jetty at each end and ocean access so you could travel from places like Santa Cruz to Long Beach in under 2 hrs! We would have this service NOW not in 40 years!
This is a total waste of federal and state dollars. Four years to complete environmental report and funding?!!!! And they haven't started?!! 10 miles of tunneling. This won't be completed until 2040. Absolute waste of money and resources.
2040 seems highly optimistic. CAHSR is $6.5-$8 billion short for the IOS. Then they would need an additional $25-35 Billion for the Tehachapi segment. But wait they intend first to construct the Pacheco Pass segment for probably $30 Billion. Show me the money. Perhaps they should just focus on a Fresno to Bakersfield route and then forget about the rest.
Track and systems installation will begin within the next couple years on completed segments of the guideway in the Central Valley. Supply chain issues left over from the pandemic delayed the start of that. That’s also the easiest and fastest step of construction, but the guideway and all the structures need to be completed first.
Nothing impressive, Bologna-Florence high speed line in Italy is 55 miles long of which 52 miles are in tunnels and was built for only 5 billions in 10 years
I’m guessing it was also fully funded from the start, which this project never has. If it were, things would be further along by now and happening faster.
But then likely doesn't have the multitude of regulations, green initiatives, restrictions, unelected government body oversight committees, high wages, excessive safety programs and of course the armies of lawyers to ensure that everything takes even longer and adds more cost layers!
What a joke ! Just retired from the railroad and worked the mountains for 26 years! It'll never make it in 25 minutes. It'll never happen in the next 20yrs !
Going through the Tehachapi will be the big undertaking for this section, and those that have driven through that area know exactly what I'm talking about. Hopefully the Bakersfield side will stay at-grade as long as possible before the climb.
They’re planning on having the entire section in all of Bakersfield lifted at least 10 ft up last I heard since Bakersfield city officials were unwilling to cooperate with CAHSR to integrate it into the city at-grade
@@tommyd3257the original funding was a voter approved proposition to the tube of $60 billion that saw the project run out of money in only a few years with little to no progress. It was a laughing stock. The people who voted for the proposition were fools.
@@tommyd3257 Or long term costs/sustainability/recovery - calculate the estimated cost per passenger to take the train and break even. Basic estimates suggests an HSR passenger could charter a private jet to make the same journey for less!!
@@mpwaterhouse CAHSR has stated that LA-SF ticket prices will be 80% of average market airfare. And if being profitable is so important, then we should put toll booths on all the freeways between LA and SF as well, and stop subsidizing air travel. Why does rail have to be the only mode of travel that has to make a profit?
@@ChrisJones-gx7fc You missed the point - equating an HSR ticket at 80% of airfare looks good to the consumer, great for tourists and visitors. But the California taxpayer has to shell out the remaining $11,100 per passenger to pay for infrastructure, bonds, staffing, insurance etc. That's not being unprofitable - that's grand larceny! Japan's Shinkansen (I loved riding that) cost $85 billion in 2024 money but they got 1834 miles of double tracked rail and can run a ton more trains than CA HSR could ever hope to - their cost-benefit is a lot coser to parity than CA HSR.
25 minutes from Bakersfield to Palmdale. I believe Palmdale to LA is also the same. So less than an hour from Bakersfield to LA. Or about the same time metrolink takes from Santa Clarita to DTLA today.
In the 36 years of living in California - I have only driven from Bakersfield to Palmdale a couple of times. In fact we have only traveled from the Bay Area to Socal a few dozen times and mostly in large family groups by car or on business usually by air.
High speed rail will provide another option, that’s faster than driving and competitive with flying. It won’t be for everyone, but it’ll be a much welcomed addition for many for that long drive or dealing with air travel for a short flight.
@@ChrisJones-gx7fc Sadly I am a member of the vast majority of Northern CA population being served by marginal disjointed multi-county public transport. It would take me 3 hours to get to the planned HSR head-end or nearly two hours by rideshare (which would cost more than the actual HSR ticket from NorCal to SoCal). On the other hand I can get to the nearest airport in 40 minutes or drive the entire route in 5-6 hours. End to end transit from our house to a destination in say Anaheim using rideshares and HSR in the mix would still take around 7 hours and while the ticket price may be airfare competitive, high rideshare access costs or excruciatingly long and unreliable public transport times make this option untenable. I fear that as it stands HSR will only effectively serve a small minority of the CA population, Sacramento, SF and LA government officials and tourists but the rest of us CA taxpayers have to pay for it which doesn't sit too well. The handful of times I have actually ridden the local bus services I was the only passenger on board. On my latest trip in the summer this year, the driver mentioned that the route used to be more popular but many of the teenagers who used to occasionally ride seem to use e-scooters now.
@@ChrisJones-gx7fc Sadly I am a member of the vast majority of Northern CA population being served by marginal disjointed multi-county public transport. It would take me 3 hours to get to the planned HSR head-end or nearly two hours by rideshare (which would cost more than the actual HSR ticket from NorCal to SoCal). On the other hand I can get to the nearest airport in 40 minutes or drive the entire route in 5-6 hours. End to end transit from our house to a destination in say Anaheim using rideshares and HSR in the mix would still take around 7 hours and while the ticket price may be airfare competitive, high rideshare access costs or excruciatingly long and unreliable public transport times make this option untenable. I fear that as it stands HSR will only effectively serve a small minority of the CA population, Sacramento, SF and LA government officials and tourists but the rest of us CA taxpayers have to pay for it which doesn't sit too well. The handful of times I have actually ridden the local bus services I was the only passenger on board. On my latest trip in the summer this year, the driver mentioned that the route used to be more popular but many of the teenagers who used to occasionally ride seem to use e-scooters now.
@@ChrisJones-gx7fc I think saying "It won’t be for everyone" is quite an overstatement given poor to zero rapid accessibility to the few stations being built. A more accurate statement will be it will be a boon for any California citizen lucky enough to live fairly close to a station. Nobody seems to have a good idea but simply taking a 30 minute public transport accessibility radius around each of the 24 stations suggests it could be as many as 5 million people which sounds good on the surface until that leaves 35 million Californians unable to viably use it. However, of those 5 million people how many are (or would consider being) regular long-range travelers? So the 5 million (or 12.5% of the CA population) at best beneficiaries are being subsidized by the remaining 87.5% of CA taxpayers who have little to no use for this service. How can that possibly be a fair use of an entire state's tax $$ on a project of this magnitude?
Go drive Highway 43 in the Central Valley, or just look at the countless photos and videos that have been posted online of all the construction progress, and say that again.
All this high speed rail is a high speed spending waste of money. If they are hell bent for wasting money, start with an electric bus and see how empty it stays before spending billions on a pipe dream.
$26-33 billion for 171 miles of flat valley land = $150-$200 million on flat agricultural land, with no idea on how to cross the mountains. Theoretically maybe a Boring Company tunnel once those are viable for the project.
And the millions more who’ll connect with Metrolink in Palmdale to continue onto LA and SoCal, or going north past Bakersfield toward the Bay Area and other places in NorCal.
Funny thing is, I have been saying for years that one from so cal to Vegas would work. They are starting work on it. It will likely be a success since it's being mostly ran by Nevada.
In the 1960's (after the Japanese Bullet trains started running) "everybody and their kid brother" saw that the LA to Vegas route would be perfect for high-speed trains. But, of course our "leaders" in Congress are in the Northeast corridor so that's where the money went.
@ Yeah I’m aware of the initial operating segment, I want the rest of the path that’s also been cleared to begin construction. They’ve had a fair amount of years to do the pre-construction logistics and planning. SF to LA is all cleared; as of now only the Anaheim part is yet to be environmentally cleared. I mean… if they had moved faster maybe the next president wouldn’t slash all federal funding on CAHSR. I wonder how they’re gonna fund the rest of this thing now.
Look at the HSR proposal docs - the 2020 report estimated $100 each from Millbrae to Anaheim. I recall talking with an economist who did the math on the current $135 Billion cost, the Bond repayment burden, staffing, maintenance and operating costs. In order to repay all the bonds and break even given expected ridership capacity and ongoing costs HSR would need to charge a passenger in the region of $11,200. So from that perspective its a bargain (for the passenger at least). A charter for a midsize (up to 9 passengers) private jet costs about the same to go from say Oakland to Long Beach!!!
Caltrans spent over $18 billion last year alone compared to less than $1 billion spent on HSR that same year. Freeways and roads already get a ton more every year than HSR. Just this past year, the US spent over $140 billion on road infrastructure vs less than $20 billion on transit. I’m all for maintaining what we already have, but stop wasting money on freeway expansions that have been proven to make traffic worse. Spend that money on making transit better to encourage less driving, which in turn would help reduce the need for road maintenance so often.
Anyone know why they didn't build L.A. to San Diego first? Seems to me starting with a shorter route between two big cities would have been a good idea. Edit: Thanks for the explanations, everyone. I took the Surfliner from L.A. to San Diego years ago and remember it took a long time. A high-speed connection would certainly be popular, especially if faster than driving. I imagined an early success would lead to more public support for the rest of the project. Again thanks for the replies and sharing your knowledge.
Most likely because LA to SD is already connected by Metrolink and The Surfliner where as LA to SF doesn’t have a direct rail connection between both downtowns
@@_p0s3r__ But where they're planning to build the portion connecting Los Angeles (and in particular, the Inland Empire) to San Diego has no rail connectivity. In fact, there's currently no public transportation option between Escondido and Riverside County at all, not even a BRT line up the busy I-15 corridor between Escondido and Temecula. And every time the lone existing rail line connecting San Diego to the nation is cut off during winter storms (mainly in San Clemente, but also on the Del Mar bluffs), it means that San Diego is severed from the rest of the region's rail network. In addition, there are major projects happening right now on portions of the LOSSAN corridor in San Diego County (a double tracking project in South Carlsbad being the latest), as well as two future realignment projects in the future to get the rail line off the coast, one in Del Mar and the other in San Clemente, which is much further into the future. Building a line on the I-15 corridor, which has it's own obstacles (terrain and the Miramar MCAS, to name two), is a way around that.
Likely as a way to appease rural and suburban voters in the Central Valley. Connecting major urban centers like that without starting in the rural areas often leads to rural voters opposing projects. It's an unfortunate reality of transit in the US at the moment
CAHSR does a really bad job at explaining some key reasonings. The Heavy Maintenance Facility is going to be built somewhere along the IOS. The HMF will be able to conduct the full maintenace requirements necessary along with a 100 mile plus test track to ensure that at speed the trains will operate within acceptable safety requirements. The HMF site will also be the primary control center for thee entire line much akin to air traffic control. There will be lower tiered maintenance facilities at the ends of the lines though that is all still in works with the respective cities and such. Thusly the initial operating segment and phase 1 being in the central valley with a large swathe relatively flat at grade provides the ideal location for the beating heart of the system with the HMF
We have trains from LA to San Diego. Not high speed, but Metrolink and Pacific Surfliner are full operational. There are no commuter rail lines to Bakersfield.
Nowhere anywhere close to that amount has been spent. Do your research! $12 billion has been spent out of $28 billion available. Caltrans spent over $18 billion last year alone, compared to less than $1 billion on HSR that same year. $128 billion is the total high end estimate for the entire SF-Anaheim route. Compare that to the estimated $253 billion it would cost to keep expanding freeways and airports to meet the same additional capacity that HSR would provide.
I have all the Inspection certs and High Speed Rail job experience. I can make sure the job gets done right and I am proactive with contractors and sub contractors. I prevent million dollar mistakes. ❤😊
Very separate projects, plus Caltrans is already spending far more on freeways than will likely ever be spent building HSR. $12 billion total has been spent so far on the HSR project, compared to over $18 billion Caltrans spent last year alone. About $1 billion per year is spent on HSR.
@ChrisJones-gx7fc those stats speak Volumes!!!! Total waste!!! How many billions of miles traveled by all through out one of the biggest states per year vs how many miles HSR? That money needs to go to what people use everyday, not some pet project for a very very few!
@@superoffended6737 the freeways were also once a new concept in California, one that cost and still costs more than will ever be spent on HSR and transit. Freeways didn’t just magically appear overnight. People also had to get used to them, and auto and auto-related propaganda heavily pushed cars over transit, backed by the federal government investing hundreds of billions of dollars into road infrastructure at the sacrifice of transit networks. Now we have traffic congestion that only gets worse with every lane addition. To say that this project is a waste while more freeways are not is pure BS auto and oil funded propaganda.
@ChrisJones-gx7fc Pet project to create a slush fund. Freeways r for everyone and for commerce, This train to nowhere boondoggle is a WASTE. Could have had super tankers to fight fires instead of renting them from Canada every fire season, could have made the 99 more safe for the families that use it everyday, heck by now they could have bought a fleet of airplanes and used the abandoned base runways and it could have been 40 minute flight and super cheap. But noooooo, we have people like you that whatever the blue people want, its OK by u. Bet u drive an electric and ride ur bicycle in lanes of traffic on the weekends too. Do u have a poster of Newsom and Gray Davis in ur house too? How close am I? Did u have a Harry/Ballz sign in ur yard too? It will never be completed. Even if it did it's gonna be a money pit to maintain and only a handful of people will benefit. But the politicians friends will benefit like they already have. All for what? A train.🙄
@@superoffended6737 trains were also the long-established way to get around at one point, and freeways were the new idea that as I said were pushed heavily by special interests that wanted to get everyone in cars. The US spends well over $100 billion ($140 billion last year) on road infrastructure every year, compared to less than $20 billion on transit. And yet our freeways are jammed up with traffic and many cities are so spread out (cause they were built for cars) that everyone needs to own a car, which can be a financial burden for many, in order to live. That should not be how things are. Not only is it unsustainable, it only further perpetuates wealth gaps and reduces mobility for many who are unable to drive or afford a car. Transit increases mobility and opens up more opportunities for more people, not to mention the economic benefits that generates. Cities across the country, including LA and SF. are building and expanding their transit systems, after decades of wasteful freeway spending that only made traffic worse (and some cities are still doing that), and are seeing benefits of that. Not to mention an increasing number of Americans, mostly younger generations, are demanding alternatives to driving like better transit. But we still need fast intercity transit for mid-distance travel, which is where HSR comes in. It won’t be for everyone, just as driving isn’t nor is flying, but it’ll provide a new means of travel that’ll increase mobility and economic opportunities for many people, just as it already does for tens of millions of people in over twenty countries across the world. It’s much more than just a train.
@jr2904 i agree that costs have ballooned, but so has a lot of things. These are the costs of inflation, production/supply chain issues, and delays. The sooner it gets done, the less expensive it'll be. It's still a good project, despite the price tag
I hope they can get this project finished soon. It's something that could be a really good thing for the region if they can ever get it done. It's too bad that California is having such a difficult time with it. These kind of projects have been done successfully in other parts of the world with a fraction of the cost and a fraction of the time. It seems to me like people out there are just trying to reinvent the wheel.
Glad that this is finally kicking into gear down in Socal. Why weren't the station designs figured out ages ago though? Unless the land for the station was only just acquired, it seems like a huge waste of over a decade of waiting to not have a design ready to go
I'm sorry. Did I miss the DATE that this section will start operating? Anyway, it's been "fun" fighting for a seat on the buses out of L.A. to Bakersfield. I hope that the 12 or so people a day who might use our high-speed rail in the middle third of the route will enjoy their rides IF even that much of the system ever opens. As for those of us in Los Angeles riding those stupid buses, well when I pay for a train ride to Sacramento, I "really love" sitting on a bus for a couple hours.
This segment will eliminate the need for that bus, by connecting HSR with Metrolink to/from LA. As for the date it opens, that ultimately comes down to how quickly this segment gets funded. The sooner it does, the sooner construction can begin and the sooner it opens. As for a timeline, CAHSR estimates the Pacheco Pass crossing, which includes a 13.5-mile tunnel, will take up to six years to complete. I would assume a similar timeline for this segment as well.
@@michaeldelaney7271 happy to help. I want to see this project completed as quickly as possible too, but it’ll take more funding that should be from a reliable funding source. The piecemeal approach so far hasn’t worked all that well.
Please put retail space in the stations. The rent can slowly help pay for the trains in addition to the ticket sales and people can buy stuff they forgot for their trips, meals, entertainment, etc
The Salesforce transit center in SF is expected to be a station; it already has retail space but limited retail actually wants to be there. Likewise the estimate for fare for this project was $86 in 2015 which is $115 in 2024 dollars. It's not a commuter train, it's a holiday vacation novelty where you take a 3 hour train instead of a 1 hour flight or 6 hour drive.
What is the total cost of this project and what are the projections for the total number of passengers per month. And what is the predicted income per month generated by passengers?
@brucebarnes9638 they are currently $120 billion short in funding, about $40 billion already spent. The cost of tickets has risen by 1/3rd, the ridership projection has been reduced by 30%, and environmental savings reduced by 1/3rd. It's a useless slow speed train.
@@rickhicks6833 $12 billion has been spent so far out of $28 billion available. The current high end estimate is $128 billion for SF-Anaheim. Ridership projections have been updated to reflect current and predicted future travel patterns between SoCal and NorCal following the pandemic and switch for many to remote work, but they still show that HSR will be an effective alternative travel option to driving and flying, both more beneficial and less expensive than the alternative of more freeway and airport expansions. Also, the system is being designed and built for speeds of well over 200 mph (up to 250 mph), and will use trains capable of those speeds (up to 220 mph). That has never changed.
MY wife and I bought a Palmdale lot in 1970's when the HIP was building an International Airport to help LAX with their traffic. HIP HIP HIP. We still own the lot and my kids want us to keep paying the taxes.. oh well. Don't Get Old !!!
Maybe they can do more with land value capture? Building high rise housing and commercial near stations and renting it out like JR. not sure how much money they could get that way
@ true. I guess they could get money contingent on it finishing (seems like merced-bkrs at least will finish). Not sure how it would financially work out
For God's sake, please have some finished open routes. Like KCJB, HSR is only 88 miles long but is still working. We want trains and rail but not shuttered construction sites.
As much as it is a good idea, however, many counties, cities, and ranchers are responsible for the delays on the constructions of this project. Lawsuits and eminent domain laws kept disrupting the project causing the budget to sky rocket to the billions. The federal government does not care about the project and would rather invest on the high speed train that runs from LA (in Rancho Cucamonga) to Las Vegas. What they should have done was begin construction first in SF and LA until they closed the gap and not the other way around.
California government agencies made up most of the entities suing the railroad. The main problems were environmental groups suing to stop wetland degradation because the original contractor routed through sensitive areas to save money.
@@michaelalcocer6778 I think this is erroneous for the reason that one's government arbitrarily takes land without consent. That is not the case, the government will always negotiate with ranchers the amount of land they need, the value of the land, and compensation. That farmers may not like the portion of land that is being asked under eminent domain is one thing, but certainly the government does not take arbitrarily.
So current estimates are the complete project will cost ~$202 million per mile. We got 82 miles here, so I'm guessing it will end up costing north of $25 billion and be done around 2040.
@@russellcstevens and that's their best case projection. Projected ridership has already been reduced 35%, cost of tickets increased 30%, and environmental savings reduced by 30%. Stop the waste.
Boy the haters sure are out in full force. Y’all love to complain with your BS claims and rhetoric, but fail to offer up any better ideas. More freeway lanes and expanding airports? That’s what we’ve been doing for decades, and traffic only gets worse and air travel still generally sucks. Plus those would cost far more and be less beneficial in the long run, and do nothing to solve the inherent downsides with those options. Not to mention not everyone likes to drive or fly, or is able to. Just cause you and everyone in your little corner of the world may never use this train, doesn’t mean there aren’t millions of other people who will. The millions who travel between SoCal, the Central Valley and Bay Area every year, currently forced to drive or fly, or take current rail which takes much longer than both. High speed rail will be a game changer just as it already has been for decades across the world. It won’t be for everyone, just as driving or flying aren’t, but for many it’ll open up new opportunities and increased mobility between the state’s megaregions.
It wasn’t going to anyway. There’s only been enough funding identified for finishing Merced to Bakersfield. If/when more funding materializes, it’ll be used to go to San Jose and SF as that’s CHSRA’s next priority. Only after SF-Bakersfield is up and running will CHSRA start heading south. Right now that’s looking like late 2030s at the earliest, and maybe 2040s. I am confident that there’s no way SoCal will be cool letting HSR end in Bakersfield, and will push to at least get it to Palmdale so it can connect with Metrolink to LA, even if California has to fund it on its own.
In 2030-2035 it will be operational in the red county segment from Merced to Bakersfield where construction has been making solid progress. Construction may eventually begin in the blue counties of Santa Clara and Los Angeles.
Hopefully not. This project has been delayed far too much already and anymore backlash from the new federal government for the next four years is going to be rough.
Dude, you have politicians who friggin' insulted the guy and who bet the farm on him not getting re-elected, and lost the bet. It's time to square the tab with the house.
@@marimunny9194I've said this from the start. It is wildly presumptive that the feds will fund this. A 1% sales tax would have paid for it by now, from the initial 2008 vote. Of course, that never would have passed, so here we are with an unfunded train, expecting a bailout. California has no leadership at all.
For context, driving from Bakersfield to Palmdale on a good day takes 1 hour 30 minutes
wow, rooting for the project to be not only finished but on time!
That 25 minutes is pure bullshit. The climb up the mountains alone will take that long.
For context, who on Earth drives from Bakersfield to Palmdale?
Who on earth would want to:
1. Drive to Bakersfield station
2. Park there
3. Wait for a train
4. Arrive at Palmdale (in 45 minutes rather than 1.5 hours)
5. Look for transportation at Palmdale (wait for a bus?)
@toothlessseer3153 I lived in Palmdale and had a girlfriend in Oildale, drove it often. But wouldn't live in Palmdale now.
@@toothlessseer3153 A big benefit from building HSR is incentivizing local transit improvements.
I'm worried about federal funding in the next few years.
Yeah it's not coming...
I am sure trumpie will eliminate any federal funding for social programs, including HSR
At this rate, the project may come to a halt because of lack of funding for the next 4 years at the very least.
@@WeakSous California could potentially fund the remainder of the IOS (Merced-Bakersfield) on its own and launch revenue service sometime in the 2030s. Getting beyond the Valley anytime quickly (before the 2040s) will require federal funding.
Let's give it more state funding
1:18 Anyone who plays Cities:Skylines knows how difficult it is to stay under 2.8° incline for trains or anything.
Anyone who knows this project knows there are expert engineers designing and building it, and expertise from other high speed rail systems weighing in. They also know Cities Skylines is a video game (and a fun one), not reality.
This should be the most prioritized section, should open asap. Close the rail gap!
Pacheco is cheaper and would connect to Caltrain, which is already electrified.
Why should this section be prioritized? HSR is for people transport and that means cities. San to LA or LA to SF should be priorities. Even LA to Vegas would seemingly be a higher priority than this.
No one will ride this in sufficient numbers to ever maintain funding
@@Barnaby33YT This is part of that section… They need to get to Palmdale and then it connects to LA.
@@spencerjoplin2885it’s actually not. The Bakersfield-Palmdale segment is estimated at $17.1 billion, while Merced-San Jose is $19.6 billion.
That said, going to SF next has greater payoffs for HSR, not just connecting the Central Valley and Bay Area with a new, faster mode of travel than driving, but also make statewide SF-LA travel competitive with driving, even with the I-5 bus bridge. Reaching Palmdale will eliminate the need for the bus bridge and allow the all-rail journey between LA and SF. Both need to happen no matter what.
If you're in your twenties today you might, just might live long enough to see this project completed.
No truer words have been spoken about this boondoggle!
@@emmanuelgoldstein1918 I’m sure there were many who looked at the Interstates the same way. Or the space program. Or at the first cars. Or at the early railroads, and even the canals. How about all the things in our modern lives that all were once new concepts?
Every thing, regardless of how popular it might be, will always have its critics who’ll do any and everything they can to make their point. We’re at where we are now because of change, of new ideas and things that people were no doubt hesitant toward at first, but as they gradually became part of our lives it’s near impossible to imagine life today without them. Same will be the case with high speed rail. Not just California HSR, but other ongoing projects like Brightline West and Texas Central. Once there’s that first example on US soil that people can ride, there’ll be no going back.
Reading the 2020 HSR forecast the projected fares and expected ridership (i.e. $100 for Anaheim to Millbrae each way per passenger - and $20 for SF to Millbrae). Will only cover at best 50% the projected cost of just operating and maintaining HSR over the next 50 years - not repaying bonds or the initial outlay that's all down to the taxpayer. All this of course also assumes there will not be any catastrophic equipment failures and the inevitable multi-billion dollar cost of litigation! This entire scheme is a massive greenwashing black hole only benefiting politicians, construction companies and lawyers!
Key word being might
At current rates of progress, having started around the same time, Elon will have invented multiple new rockets, spaceships, space based internet, and built bases on both the moon and on Mars, all before California can finish high speed rail. California is totally broken.
I relocated to Palmdale from the San Fernando Valley in 1983, seeking a fresh start. However, I eventually left Palmdale as it transformed into the very environment I wanted to escape-overrun by gangs, crime, and traffic issues. It feels like Palmdale has turned into a cesspool.
And this project segment will cost hundreds of millions of dollars that could have been used to help reverse those downward trends in Palmdale. But that’s OK, because the enviro-progressives will get their shiny new toy train, which will whisk travelers rapidly and stylishly into the cesspool you describe. Crime and traffic in Palmdale really just aren’t progressive concerns, so we should all shut up about them and pretend they don’t exist so progressives can enjoy their project’s triumph over reason and common sense.
Oh, wait. They promise that the Palmdale station’s construction will “revitalize downtown.” This means you’ll still get mugged, but it’ll happen amid award-winning architecture and state-of-the-art technology. So that’s OK then, right? Right?
like califunny
Sounds like it needs some redevelopment. HSR will be a good catalyst for that, just as transit typically is. Increasing mobility encourages development. Cities have grown outward as cars are the primary mode of travel, and as a result life has become built around them, making life more difficult for those who can’t afford a car or are unable to drive. Good transit like HSR encourages development along those transit lines, and walkable neighborhoods around transit stops and stations that include housing, shops, and other necessities, reduces car dependency, opening up more opportunities for people.
Reducing the need to drive and making fast travel more accessible to more people creates more equitability.
By 1993 there were already signs of a decline. When Sierra Hwy became a ghost town, it was a wrap for the Downtown Palmdale until the Metrolink station came in.
@@ChrisJones-gx7fc Kind of ironic that the majority of the well paying, plentiful jobs employment environment in Bakersfield until recently was oil companies. There would be a perfect opportunity to bring in workers by rail from places like Palmdale. Now with Newsome driving out Chevron and shutting down the likes of Pyramid, Jaco and Kern Oil who used to have a total workforce well over 20,000 that number is dwindling towards to a handful mostly shutting down and capping wells.
I like how so many people are skeptical that this will get done sooner. Many of the viaducts under construction a decade ago are finished now. We also should not assume anything about whether the federal government will or will not fund the project and should have plans to fund the project on our own. The only people really opposed to CAHSR are the airlines and the auto industry.
for real, well said. Like, it's a HUGE stretch of rail, a highly ambitious project, and they've been making steady progress overall. Good things take time.
Not quite true. Many conservatives and farmland owners were vehemently against it in the beginning for many years. However, many have come around because they've benefitted from all the good paying jobs over the last several years. I don't think there is an organized opposition to this project anymore like there was at the start.
@@mrxman581 Except maybe outside of California. But then Brightline is actually a bit more successful (as in they have success right now) so that might actually motivate our government to continue the work into expanding high speed rail. And finally getting Amtrak to the point where it can be a public-private partnership like JR.
Many Californians are opposed to the $100+ billion cost especially once they know it won't be operational from SF to LA until some time in the 2040s
@@MythicalRedFox not this much time. I regret voting for this boondoggle
I don't care how, find a way to finish phase 1.
*Edit: if there is some good news in-regards to this section: it's that construction in & around Bakersfield should start sometime next year.
Increase CA state income taxes and gasoline tax. Watch what happens after that.
Apple moves to Texas?
This is the real part I’m waiting for. Seamless travel to Southern California
You'll be dead before it happens
It’s a section that’s absolutely going to happen. SoCal will see to it, and won’t let HSR end in Bakersfield.
After 35 years we've been to Southern California from Nor Cal a few dozen times and since its usually with the family and friends usually just drive unless its for business. The interconnect and queue times are the more significant waste of time. For a 60 minute flight it can take 5-6 hours of elapsed time (you have to add 90 minutes to check in, go through security, wait to board, taxi, fly, land, taxi, pick up bags and head to ground transport) so you might as well drive! Many of the same issues will exist for rail unless you live at a terminus (good for the politicos in Sacramento). The longer travel time pretty much negates the aircraft boarding and security (though I suspect TSA will be screening HSR passengers too).
@@mpwaterhouse there’ll probably be some form of security screening at stations but I seriously doubt they’ll be as rigorous as airports are. They should take less time at stations since there are fewer safety restrictions for a train than a plane.
@@ChrisJones-gx7fc let's hope they would stay that way though safety is one thing, and security another entirely. I have witnessed a passing passenger brandishing a pistol on BART! Lets also hope they do a better job of making sure they are fare-paying passengers riding the rails!
We need to keep the faith for the next few years. Don't let them shutter the project. So much has been accomplished. We just need to wait until the federal government fixes itself.
With 51% nonsensically voting for a fascist dictatorship, I am skeptical there will be any future "fixing" of that.
Worst that’ll likely happen is the incoming administration will try to rescind the IIJA grant like they did with the previous round of federal funding, and prevent the project from getting any more federal funding while they’re in office.
If that proves true, the former will just delay the project longer, and the latter will mean California has to fund it on its own. I’m confident California could do that to finish Merced to Bakersfield and begin revenue service by the mid-2030s, plausibly after 2033 with such a delay.
Any chance to reach SF or LA anytime in the foreseeable future (before the 2040s) will require at least some federal funding.
51% voted for fascism... which ends democracy... there is no fixing that.
fifty one percent voted to end democracy, and there is no fixing that.
@@ShastaToddTrue
Please do this soon.
Soon!? The government of California is involved; please.
I know. I have little hope.
20 years from now Palmdale is going to look so different
Yeah, it will be an unbearable place to live due to heat & possibly lack of water
@@NeonNion ah so you've been there?
2:24 With how the rendering depicts the project, several businesses and homes will have to be destroyed to make way for the station
@gabrielgroen2522 yes even more like a 3rd world democrat shithole.
@DavidJamesHenry yes, if it wasn't for gangs, cartels and crime it would still be a shithole.
Probably the most critical portion of the HSR project
I’d argue the 13.5-mile Pacheco Pass tunnel is more crucial to the project’s success, but closing the rail gap between the CV and SoCal is nearly just as important and also needs to happen.
@@ChrisJones-gx7fcThat is not happening anytime soon. Maybe in 20 years at best.
@@gteixeira depends on how quickly it gets funded. CHSRA estimates the 13.5-mile tunnel will take up to six years to build once construction begins. If construction starts in the early 2030s and has minimal delays, HSR trains will reach SF before 2040.
195 mph average on a section with 2.8% ruling grade. Not bad. Something like 1.5 hr driving, if traffic cooperates.
@@inyobill physics says they'll never get 195 on that section.
@@rickhicks6833 oh. ok. I guess you've consulted with their engineers to straighten them out. You just insist on displaying your lack of comprehension.
@@rickhicks6833 Actually, my computation was wrong, they won't need that kind of speed to achieve the timing.
@inyobill yes, you were wrong. Math is hard. Particularly those that support this democrat fiasco.
@inyobill well I think my degree in nuclear physics is far ahead of yours. And check out the history of railroads. There's a reason for the tehachipi loop.
Why? Who's pockets got lined?
Is any hope for LA-SF done now without federal funding? I hope it can still be built
I hope so too. Sadly the federal government for the next four years just doesn’t believe in HSR.
Not a chance it will ever get built. The cost will be astronomic.
@@ArthurDentZaphodBeeb yet not nearly as bad as the alternative of more freeway lanes and airport expansions to carry the same additional capacity of people that HSR will provide. Continuing to expand freeways and airports would be both more expensive and less beneficial. HSR remains the best long term solution to our state’s future intercity travel needs between NorCal and SoCal.
Around 2050 maybe
@@ChrisJones-gx7fc The cost to build tunnels will be immense. Think billion dollar and up per mile. London's new train line on flat ground thru urban areas is nearly $500M/mile. Regardless, we won't need to build many more freeways with a declining birthrate. California has pretty much reached max population. Only huge immigration keeps population stable, but with new anti-immigrant policies, the days of large population growth are behind us.
Yup since we all know that there is a huge demand for a train from Palmdale to Bakersfield.
190ft viaducts is crazy
That's not a big deal. In China they have some going 380 feet tall. As far as bridges in general go, The New River Gorge Bridge in WV is 876 feet. High Bridge in KY is 275 feet which was build 150 years ago and still is in use.
Germany has quite many of them in there neubaustrecken
@@kneonspace Correct. Highest railway bridge (Müngstener Brücke - not even a HSR bridge) is 351 ft (107 m) high:
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Müngsten_Bridge
730 feet for Foresthill Bridge in Auburn.
Crazy? I was crazy once
The Taxes on this project Will never Stop. ... What a Money pit
More wasted tax dollars on stupid projects no one will use. Keep it up CA, you are going broke!
You da man! BLW rocks. Happy selling. What happens to the Aviators should the A's ever move to Vegas?
it’s so cool that america is building something
Where? I don't see anything, I see piles of concrete, empty work areas. A billion dollar per mile track, with no trains.
@@superoffended6737apart from you know, 119 miles of active construction, which will soon be 171 miles. Miles of completed guideway and multiple completed and ongoing structures, many of which are grade separations that are already delivering benefits to local motorists and pedestrians. Electrified Caltrain service between SF and San Jose that was helped paid for by CAHSR and will one day be shared with HSR trains. How about the over 13,000 construction jobs created so far and over $18 billion in economic output for the Central Valley? There’s a lot happening on this project. Go drive Highway 43 and see all the construction, or just go check out all the countless videos and photos uploaded by CAHSR and others online.
Always excited for these :)❤
Tehachapi mtns will be a real challenge…the miles of tunnels needed
Yeah, and also destroy the landscape
@@jeff9062 freeways already did far more damage to landscapes than HSR ever will.
I'm so worried that this project won't finish because of the way things are going ...
Progress on the California HS rail is only about 1/12 the speed that China completes its high-speed rail. Yet I feel certain that funding will continue until it is completed.
@@georgewolfiii1170Stop with the Communist China comparisons. They're irrelevant.
@@LucasDimoveo yes, the wasteful spending. It will be a useless relic when finished.
U mean the friends and family and buddies of California politicians taking the money and not do very much towards the project. Yeah we all seen this coming. Progressive pie in the sky paradise.
It's been 15 years and you're just now worried? Cut our losses and cancel it, we can't afford it
What a great place for the station. Nothing says walkable like having to cross 9 lanes of traffic going 60mph. Surely we have some foresight to actually safely connect the city to the station.
The concepts for Palmdale Station have bridges. Let’s hope every other station gets highway overpasses to their downtowns.
Presumably those areas will be upzoned and redeveloped. It's not like these towns have great walkable downtown cores to begin with, you gotta start somewhere. In any case that's incumbent upon those towns to do it; I'm sure CA HSR picked the best spots available given all those considerations. Granted, I'm being optimistic -- fingers crossed it actually turns out that way! 🤞
Many HSR stations in other countries are not in the middle of a city, especially the smaller stations. They're connected to city centers via other modes of transit.
well hopefully thats more space to be put to good use in the future
Hopefully the feds stop funding this waste of money project.
Then we should also stop wasting money on freeway expansions that are proven to make traffic worse.
California spent more money on freeways last year alone ($18 billion) than the total amount spent on HSR so far ($12 billion), and the cost to build the equivalent capacity of HSR in additional freeway lanes and airport expansions would cost 1.5 times more than SF-Anaheim HSR will (up to $253 billion compared to $128 billion for HSR), and be less beneficial as no amount of lanes will make the drive any faster nor will any amount of airport gates and runways make flying any less of a hassle.
@ChrisJones-gx7fc the difference is that nothing gets transported on the bullet train except people. No food, gasoline, medical supplies, etc. Police, ambulances, fire trucks, etc. aren't going to be able to use this to perform their duties. You can't get to work, school, the hospital, the grocery store on the bullet train. Once you get off of the train how are you going to get to where you want to go? This will be just like all of the other failing tax subsidized mass transportation systems in CA that nobody uses. The state will raise taxes to pay for the operation and maintenance of this because it will not make enough money to pay for itself. Its a money Sinkhole with very little benefit. This is just a payback to the unions. Union people will build it, operate it and maintain it. And CA taxpayers will foot the bill with increasing taxes for decades.
@@ubb4me airplanes don’t carry any of that stuff either, or help out emergency services on the ground. Should we ditch air travel too? That gets subsidized every year much like Amtrak does. Transit in general is about providing a service, not to make a profit. There are a lot of things and services the US wouldn’t have if the only objective was to make a profit, including those same emergency services.
Roads in the US are overbuilt and overused (and also don’t make a profit, sans toll roads) cause we got rid of a lot of our transit, and the places here that have transit have millions of riders every year. Cars are expensive and not everyone can afford them, or are able to drive them. Rail and transit in general increases mobility for everyone and provides an alternative to driving, which in turn reduces demand on roads and helps save money on not having to repair them as much.
We spend far more on roads every year than we ever will on HSR. Just cause you and your corner of the world may not use it, doesn’t mean there aren’t millions of Californians who will. The millions who travel between the Bay Area and SoCal every year, and between those places and the Central Valley.
Obviously this won’t eliminate driving, or air travel, just as it hasn’t anywhere else, but it’ll provide another option, one that will connect with regional and local transit throughout the state to help get people to and from their Points A & B. They’ll also be able to drive themselves to a station or have someone give them a ride, just as with air travel. The Central Valley stations even call for rental car facilities.
@@ChrisJones-gx7fc Airplanes carry a huge amount of goods and services. Amazon, DHL, FedEx, UPS, etc. all use airplanes to deliver their goods and services. In state emergencies airplanes carry emergency personnel and supplies to the affected site, not to one location. I'm not saying the HSR needs to make a profit, but the benefits don't outweigh the costs. Where is the HSR going to get a reliable, affordable electrical supply? PG&E? This whole project is just about funneling money to the same old people. I respect your point of view and think your heart is in the right place. I just disagree. Have a good one.
Im worried its a waste of tax paying money.
Imagine if we had instead invested $135 Billion into coastal Ground Effect passenger vehicles skimming several meters over the water. They can hit 360 knots but cruise very efficiently at 200 knots (less than 50% of a traditional aircraft) they could use traditional fuel, hydrogen and/or electric. They are relatively storm resilient though during periods of unusually high waves would require traveling further from the shore. You just need a jetty at each end and ocean access so you could travel from places like Santa Cruz to Long Beach in under 2 hrs! We would have this service NOW not in 40 years!
I hope to ride this train in my lifetime. Be happy when the project is complete
So how long is this going to take.
This is a total waste of federal and state dollars. Four years to complete environmental report and funding?!!!! And they haven't started?!! 10 miles of tunneling. This won't be completed until 2040. Absolute waste of money and resources.
2040 seems highly optimistic. CAHSR is $6.5-$8 billion short for the IOS. Then they would need an additional $25-35 Billion for the Tehachapi segment. But wait they intend first to construct the Pacheco Pass segment for probably $30 Billion. Show me the money. Perhaps they should just focus on a Fresno to Bakersfield route and then forget about the rest.
How many miles of the high speed railing line is actually functional?
Zero, no track has been ordered as yet.
Track and systems installation will begin within the next couple years on completed segments of the guideway in the Central Valley. Supply chain issues left over from the pandemic delayed the start of that. That’s also the easiest and fastest step of construction, but the guideway and all the structures need to be completed first.
All that money sent to fund foreign wars in just the past year could have been used to fully fund construction of CalHSR
Nothing impressive, Bologna-Florence high speed line in Italy is 55 miles long of which 52 miles are in tunnels and was built for only 5 billions in 10 years
I’m guessing it was also fully funded from the start, which this project never has. If it were, things would be further along by now and happening faster.
But then likely doesn't have the multitude of regulations, green initiatives, restrictions, unelected government body oversight committees, high wages, excessive safety programs and of course the armies of lawyers to ensure that everything takes even longer and adds more cost layers!
What a joke ! Just retired from the railroad and worked the mountains for 26 years! It'll never make it in 25 minutes. It'll never happen in the next 20yrs !
Going through the Tehachapi will be the big undertaking for this section, and those that have driven through that area know exactly what I'm talking about. Hopefully the Bakersfield side will stay at-grade as long as possible before the climb.
They’re planning on having the entire section in all of Bakersfield lifted at least 10 ft up last I heard since Bakersfield city officials were unwilling to cooperate with CAHSR to integrate it into the city at-grade
@@MarxistNurse I supect the city officials are still annoyed at CA gov driving off all of the Kern county oil companies and the loss of 20,000 jobs!
I love trains, but let’s get real, how many people will actually use this? Incredible waste of money.
I'm so happy for CA residents from 2100. They are going to have great rail transportation!
What a absolute waste of taxpayer money.
This should've been completed YEARS AGO! The CA Government is such a circus 🎪 🤡
They haven’t provided funding. Kind of an important part of any project
@@tommyd3257the original funding was a voter approved proposition to the tube of $60 billion that saw the project run out of money in only a few years with little to no progress. It was a laughing stock.
The people who voted for the proposition were fools.
@@tommyd3257 Or long term costs/sustainability/recovery - calculate the estimated cost per passenger to take the train and break even. Basic estimates suggests an HSR passenger could charter a private jet to make the same journey for less!!
@@mpwaterhouse CAHSR has stated that LA-SF ticket prices will be 80% of average market airfare.
And if being profitable is so important, then we should put toll booths on all the freeways between LA and SF as well, and stop subsidizing air travel. Why does rail have to be the only mode of travel that has to make a profit?
@@ChrisJones-gx7fc You missed the point - equating an HSR ticket at 80% of airfare looks good to the consumer, great for tourists and visitors. But the California taxpayer has to shell out the remaining $11,100 per passenger to pay for infrastructure, bonds, staffing, insurance etc. That's not being unprofitable - that's grand larceny! Japan's Shinkansen (I loved riding that) cost $85 billion in 2024 money but they got 1834 miles of double tracked rail and can run a ton more trains than CA HSR could ever hope to - their cost-benefit is a lot coser to parity than CA HSR.
25 minutes from Bakersfield to Palmdale. I believe Palmdale to LA is also the same. So less than an hour from Bakersfield to LA. Or about the same time metrolink takes from Santa Clarita to DTLA today.
Federal funding goes poof?
it goes POOF !!
Maybe, and even then, only very temporarily.
Good, CA taxpayers voted Yes on this train..they should pay for it!
@@marimunny9194bitch your state. Also gets money from federal government mfs ..
@@bwuh yes, thankfully.
Wasted tax dollars! Spend the money to clean up the streets, parks and homeless. 😡
Yes and yeah of course California High-Speed Rail in California.😮
In the 36 years of living in California - I have only driven from Bakersfield to Palmdale a couple of times. In fact we have only traveled from the Bay Area to Socal a few dozen times and mostly in large family groups by car or on business usually by air.
High speed rail will provide another option, that’s faster than driving and competitive with flying. It won’t be for everyone, but it’ll be a much welcomed addition for many for that long drive or dealing with air travel for a short flight.
@@ChrisJones-gx7fc Sadly I am a member of the vast majority of Northern CA population being served by marginal disjointed multi-county public transport. It would take me 3 hours to get to the planned HSR head-end or nearly two hours by rideshare (which would cost more than the actual HSR ticket from NorCal to SoCal). On the other hand I can get to the nearest airport in 40 minutes or drive the entire route in 5-6 hours. End to end transit from our house to a destination in say Anaheim using rideshares and HSR in the mix would still take around 7 hours and while the ticket price may be airfare competitive, high rideshare access costs or excruciatingly long and unreliable public transport times make this option untenable.
I fear that as it stands HSR will only effectively serve a small minority of the CA population, Sacramento, SF and LA government officials and tourists but the rest of us CA taxpayers have to pay for it which doesn't sit too well. The handful of times I have actually ridden the local bus services I was the only passenger on board. On my latest trip in the summer this year, the driver mentioned that the route used to be more popular but many of the teenagers who used to occasionally ride seem to use e-scooters now.
@@ChrisJones-gx7fc Sadly I am a member of the vast majority of Northern CA population being served by marginal disjointed multi-county public transport. It would take me 3 hours to get to the planned HSR head-end or nearly two hours by rideshare (which would cost more than the actual HSR ticket from NorCal to SoCal). On the other hand I can get to the nearest airport in 40 minutes or drive the entire route in 5-6 hours. End to end transit from our house to a destination in say Anaheim using rideshares and HSR in the mix would still take around 7 hours and while the ticket price may be airfare competitive, high rideshare access costs or excruciatingly long and unreliable public transport times make this option untenable.
I fear that as it stands HSR will only effectively serve a small minority of the CA population, Sacramento, SF and LA government officials and tourists but the rest of us CA taxpayers have to pay for it which doesn't sit too well. The handful of times I have actually ridden the local bus services I was the only passenger on board. On my latest trip in the summer this year, the driver mentioned that the route used to be more popular but many of the teenagers who used to occasionally ride seem to use e-scooters now.
@@ChrisJones-gx7fc I think saying "It won’t be for everyone" is quite an overstatement given poor to zero rapid accessibility to the few stations being built. A more accurate statement will be it will be a boon for any California citizen lucky enough to live fairly close to a station. Nobody seems to have a good idea but simply taking a 30 minute public transport accessibility radius around each of the 24 stations suggests it could be as many as 5 million people which sounds good on the surface until that leaves 35 million Californians unable to viably use it. However, of those 5 million people how many are (or would consider being) regular long-range travelers? So the 5 million (or 12.5% of the CA population) at best beneficiaries are being subsidized by the remaining 87.5% of CA taxpayers who have little to no use for this service. How can that possibly be a fair use of an entire state's tax $$ on a project of this magnitude?
This shit has been going on for years and no real development has even started. This was supposed to be completed years ago
Go drive Highway 43 in the Central Valley, or just look at the countless photos and videos that have been posted online of all the construction progress, and say that again.
@@ChrisJones-gx7fcand how many years over due and over budget.
Is there a plan to continue the rail to connect with 15, high speed to Vegas?
Its gonna be a rough next 4 years for you. Goodluck California
Sadly. But I always hope for the best!
We did fine last time the convicted felon was in office.
It's going to be great for us sane Californians
I always want California High-Speed Rail in California and I always love California High-Speed Rail in California.😮
All this high speed rail is a high speed spending waste of money. If they are hell bent for wasting money, start with an electric bus and see how empty it stays before spending billions on a pipe dream.
Is the CA high speed rail $10M per mile or $100M per mile?
We don't know yet.
Currently like $100 billion for 0 miles
$26-33 billion for 171 miles of flat valley land = $150-$200 million on flat agricultural land, with no idea on how to cross the mountains. Theoretically maybe a Boring Company tunnel once those are viable for the project.
I'm in - n - out of prizon. Always have to catch a bus from Bakersfield to Palmdale... Can't wait for the train to go all the way through!
For the eleven people going from Bakersfield to Palmdale 👍
And the millions more who’ll connect with Metrolink in Palmdale to continue onto LA and SoCal, or going north past Bakersfield toward the Bay Area and other places in NorCal.
Funny thing is, I have been saying for years that one from so cal to Vegas would work. They are starting work on it. It will likely be a success since it's being mostly ran by Nevada.
In the 1960's (after the Japanese Bullet trains started running) "everybody and their kid brother" saw that the LA to Vegas route would be perfect for high-speed trains. But, of course our "leaders" in Congress are in the Northeast corridor so that's where the money went.
@michaeldelaney7271 it would be a profitable route, and get people used to the idea.
We just wanna know when construction will START. It's been 3 years since the EIS was approved. Surely construction starts in 2025 right?
Construction is already underway for the Initial Opening Segment, but this part from Bakersfield to Palmdale might not start for a while
@ Yeah I’m aware of the initial operating segment, I want the rest of the path that’s also been cleared to begin construction. They’ve had a fair amount of years to do the pre-construction logistics and planning. SF to LA is all cleared; as of now only the Anaheim part is yet to be environmentally cleared. I mean… if they had moved faster maybe the next president wouldn’t slash all federal funding on CAHSR. I wonder how they’re gonna fund the rest of this thing now.
@@DroppedWhisper3you’re forgetting about lawsuits
@ ;w;
The EIR section with Palmdale was cleared only recently. It was the last section cleared between LA and SF.
How much does it cost to build? How much will it cost to ride? Moving one bad area to another whoopee.
Look at the HSR proposal docs - the 2020 report estimated $100 each from Millbrae to Anaheim. I recall talking with an economist who did the math on the current $135 Billion cost, the Bond repayment burden, staffing, maintenance and operating costs. In order to repay all the bonds and break even given expected ridership capacity and ongoing costs HSR would need to charge a passenger in the region of $11,200. So from that perspective its a bargain (for the passenger at least). A charter for a midsize (up to 9 passengers) private jet costs about the same to go from say Oakland to Long Beach!!!
what a joke this project has become
Video 100+.....by the time this project is finished, we will be at video 1,342,000
Draining California funds for this while roads fall apart
Caltrans spent over $18 billion last year alone compared to less than $1 billion spent on HSR that same year. Freeways and roads already get a ton more every year than HSR. Just this past year, the US spent over $140 billion on road infrastructure vs less than $20 billion on transit.
I’m all for maintaining what we already have, but stop wasting money on freeway expansions that have been proven to make traffic worse. Spend that money on making transit better to encourage less driving, which in turn would help reduce the need for road maintenance so often.
Waste
When there's no money for schools, electrical upgrades, water infrastructure, police and fire, at least you can get from Bakersfield to Palmdale fast.
Anyone know why they didn't build L.A. to San Diego first? Seems to me starting with a shorter route between two big cities would have been a good idea.
Edit: Thanks for the explanations, everyone. I took the Surfliner from L.A. to San Diego years ago and remember it took a long time. A high-speed connection would certainly be popular, especially if faster than driving. I imagined an early success would lead to more public support for the rest of the project. Again thanks for the replies and sharing your knowledge.
Most likely because LA to SD is already connected by Metrolink and The Surfliner where as LA to SF doesn’t have a direct rail connection between both downtowns
@@_p0s3r__ But where they're planning to build the portion connecting Los Angeles (and in particular, the Inland Empire) to San Diego has no rail connectivity. In fact, there's currently no public transportation option between Escondido and Riverside County at all, not even a BRT line up the busy I-15 corridor between Escondido and Temecula. And every time the lone existing rail line connecting San Diego to the nation is cut off during winter storms (mainly in San Clemente, but also on the Del Mar bluffs), it means that San Diego is severed from the rest of the region's rail network. In addition, there are major projects happening right now on portions of the LOSSAN corridor in San Diego County (a double tracking project in South Carlsbad being the latest), as well as two future realignment projects in the future to get the rail line off the coast, one in Del Mar and the other in San Clemente, which is much further into the future. Building a line on the I-15 corridor, which has it's own obstacles (terrain and the Miramar MCAS, to name two), is a way around that.
Likely as a way to appease rural and suburban voters in the Central Valley. Connecting major urban centers like that without starting in the rural areas often leads to rural voters opposing projects. It's an unfortunate reality of transit in the US at the moment
CAHSR does a really bad job at explaining some key reasonings.
The Heavy Maintenance Facility is going to be built somewhere along the IOS.
The HMF will be able to conduct the full maintenace requirements necessary along with a 100 mile plus test track to ensure that at speed the trains will operate within acceptable safety requirements.
The HMF site will also be the primary control center for thee entire line much akin to air traffic control.
There will be lower tiered maintenance facilities at the ends of the lines though that is all still in works with the respective cities and such.
Thusly the initial operating segment and phase 1 being in the central valley with a large swathe relatively flat at grade provides the ideal location for the beating heart of the system with the HMF
We have trains from LA to San Diego. Not high speed, but Metrolink and Pacific Surfliner are full operational. There are no commuter rail lines to Bakersfield.
We don't even have anything laid down from Bakersfield to Madera. 100 billion so far. Your property taxes are going to go sky high.
Laying track is the easy part. Making a smooth, gently curved, uninterrupted, looong rectangle is the hard part.
Actually no, the dirt road is under spec, standard railroad ballast train can't be used.
Nowhere anywhere close to that amount has been spent. Do your research! $12 billion has been spent out of $28 billion available. Caltrans spent over $18 billion last year alone, compared to less than $1 billion on HSR that same year. $128 billion is the total high end estimate for the entire SF-Anaheim route. Compare that to the estimated $253 billion it would cost to keep expanding freeways and airports to meet the same additional capacity that HSR would provide.
I have all the Inspection certs and High Speed Rail job experience. I can make sure the job gets done right and I am proactive with contractors and sub contractors. I prevent million dollar mistakes. ❤😊
We don't need expensive and bautiful stations. Make the stations functional and cheap then upgrade later. We care about the rail line itself
What a joke
so still on concept only?
They cant even fix hwy 1 and they wanna do this? 🤯🤯🤯
Very separate projects, plus Caltrans is already spending far more on freeways than will likely ever be spent building HSR. $12 billion total has been spent so far on the HSR project, compared to over $18 billion Caltrans spent last year alone. About $1 billion per year is spent on HSR.
@ChrisJones-gx7fc those stats speak Volumes!!!! Total waste!!! How many billions of miles traveled by all through out one of the biggest states per year vs how many miles HSR? That money needs to go to what people use everyday, not some pet project for a very very few!
@@superoffended6737 the freeways were also once a new concept in California, one that cost and still costs more than will ever be spent on HSR and transit. Freeways didn’t just magically appear overnight.
People also had to get used to them, and auto and auto-related propaganda heavily pushed cars over transit, backed by the federal government investing hundreds of billions of dollars into road infrastructure at the sacrifice of transit networks. Now we have traffic congestion that only gets worse with every lane addition. To say that this project is a waste while more freeways are not is pure BS auto and oil funded propaganda.
@ChrisJones-gx7fc Pet project to create a slush fund. Freeways r for everyone and for commerce, This train to nowhere boondoggle is a WASTE. Could have had super tankers to fight fires instead of renting them from Canada every fire season, could have made the 99 more safe for the families that use it everyday, heck by now they could have bought a fleet of airplanes and used the abandoned base runways and it could have been 40 minute flight and super cheap. But noooooo, we have people like you that whatever the blue people want, its OK by u. Bet u drive an electric and ride ur bicycle in lanes of traffic on the weekends too. Do u have a poster of Newsom and Gray Davis in ur house too? How close am I? Did u have a Harry/Ballz sign in ur yard too? It will never be completed. Even if it did it's gonna be a money pit to maintain and only a handful of people will benefit. But the politicians friends will benefit like they already have. All for what? A train.🙄
@@superoffended6737 trains were also the long-established way to get around at one point, and freeways were the new idea that as I said were pushed heavily by special interests that wanted to get everyone in cars.
The US spends well over $100 billion ($140 billion last year) on road infrastructure every year, compared to less than $20 billion on transit. And yet our freeways are jammed up with traffic and many cities are so spread out (cause they were built for cars) that everyone needs to own a car, which can be a financial burden for many, in order to live. That should not be how things are. Not only is it unsustainable, it only further perpetuates wealth gaps and reduces mobility for many who are unable to drive or afford a car.
Transit increases mobility and opens up more opportunities for more people, not to mention the economic benefits that generates. Cities across the country, including LA and SF. are building and expanding their transit systems, after decades of wasteful freeway spending that only made traffic worse (and some cities are still doing that), and are seeing benefits of that. Not to mention an increasing number of Americans, mostly younger generations, are demanding alternatives to driving like better transit.
But we still need fast intercity transit for mid-distance travel, which is where HSR comes in. It won’t be for everyone, just as driving isn’t nor is flying, but it’ll provide a new means of travel that’ll increase mobility and economic opportunities for many people, just as it already does for tens of millions of people in over twenty countries across the world. It’s much more than just a train.
Stupid idea and waste of money. The whole damn thing. Democrats.
$1 trillion over budget and 1,000 year delay…
God i hope we get to keep building this rail through the next few years
Why? This was not supposed to cost 100 billion dollars
@jr2904 i agree that costs have ballooned, but so has a lot of things. These are the costs of inflation, production/supply chain issues, and delays. The sooner it gets done, the less expensive it'll be. It's still a good project, despite the price tag
I hope they can get this project finished soon. It's something that could be a really good thing for the region if they can ever get it done. It's too bad that California is having such a difficult time with it. These kind of projects have been done successfully in other parts of the world with a fraction of the cost and a fraction of the time. It seems to me like people out there are just trying to reinvent the wheel.
What happened to last high speed rail? where did funds go?
The Pelosis thank you for your donation.
You mean Acela/NEC? It’s Amtrak’s most profitable route.
What a huge waste of money!
Glad that this is finally kicking into gear down in Socal. Why weren't the station designs figured out ages ago though? Unless the land for the station was only just acquired, it seems like a huge waste of over a decade of waiting to not have a design ready to go
Why is there more than one station design? Brightline repeats the same station over and over.
high speed rail between two places i would never want to visit. waste of money & resources
This will boost the economy in these two cities. Nice. 👍
Yes. We can finally take the train from Palmdale to visit the Denny's in B-field.
What economy?
I'm nowhere near retirement but I KNOW that I'll be LONG dead and gone before this ever gets built.
I'm sorry. Did I miss the DATE that this section will start operating? Anyway, it's been "fun" fighting for a seat on the buses out of L.A. to Bakersfield. I hope that the 12 or so people a day who might use our high-speed rail in the middle third of the route will enjoy their rides IF even that much of the system ever opens. As for those of us in Los Angeles riding those stupid buses, well when I pay for a train ride to Sacramento, I "really love" sitting on a bus for a couple hours.
This segment will eliminate the need for that bus, by connecting HSR with Metrolink to/from LA. As for the date it opens, that ultimately comes down to how quickly this segment gets funded. The sooner it does, the sooner construction can begin and the sooner it opens. As for a timeline, CAHSR estimates the Pacheco Pass crossing, which includes a 13.5-mile tunnel, will take up to six years to complete. I would assume a similar timeline for this segment as well.
@@ChrisJones-gx7fc Thank you.
@@michaeldelaney7271 happy to help. I want to see this project completed as quickly as possible too, but it’ll take more funding that should be from a reliable funding source. The piecemeal approach so far hasn’t worked all that well.
Only wonder when this bright future would be upon us, if ever.
This phase does not have funding yet, but good to know that they’re ready
Please put retail space in the stations. The rent can slowly help pay for the trains in addition to the ticket sales and people can buy stuff they forgot for their trips, meals, entertainment, etc
The Salesforce transit center in SF is expected to be a station; it already has retail space but limited retail actually wants to be there. Likewise the estimate for fare for this project was $86 in 2015 which is $115 in 2024 dollars. It's not a commuter train, it's a holiday vacation novelty where you take a 3 hour train instead of a 1 hour flight or 6 hour drive.
Yes 100%😮
What is the total cost of this project and what are the projections for the total number of passengers per month. And what is the predicted income per month generated by passengers?
@brucebarnes9638 they are currently $120 billion short in funding, about $40 billion already spent. The cost of tickets has risen by 1/3rd, the ridership projection has been reduced by 30%, and environmental savings reduced by 1/3rd. It's a useless slow speed train.
@@rickhicks6833 $12 billion has been spent so far out of $28 billion available. The current high end estimate is $128 billion for SF-Anaheim.
Ridership projections have been updated to reflect current and predicted future travel patterns between SoCal and NorCal following the pandemic and switch for many to remote work, but they still show that HSR will be an effective alternative travel option to driving and flying, both more beneficial and less expensive than the alternative of more freeway and airport expansions.
Also, the system is being designed and built for speeds of well over 200 mph (up to 250 mph), and will use trains capable of those speeds (up to 220 mph). That has never changed.
MY wife and I bought a Palmdale lot in 1970's when the HIP was building an International Airport to help LAX with their traffic. HIP HIP HIP. We still own the lot and my kids want us to keep paying the taxes.. oh well. Don't Get Old !!!
Politicians keep fatten their wallets
Maybe they can do more with land value capture? Building high rise housing and commercial near stations and renting it out like JR. not sure how much money they could get that way
But you have to have a working HSR to convince developers to build near the stations.
@ true. I guess they could get money contingent on it finishing (seems like merced-bkrs at least will finish). Not sure how it would financially work out
For God's sake, please have some finished open routes. Like KCJB, HSR is only 88 miles long but is still working. We want trains and rail but not shuttered construction sites.
As much as it is a good idea, however, many counties, cities, and ranchers are responsible for the delays on the constructions of this project. Lawsuits and eminent domain laws kept disrupting the project causing the budget to sky rocket to the billions. The federal government does not care about the project and would rather invest on the high speed train that runs from LA (in Rancho Cucamonga) to Las Vegas. What they should have done was begin construction first in SF and LA until they closed the gap and not the other way around.
California government agencies made up most of the entities suing the railroad. The main problems were environmental groups suing to stop wetland degradation because the original contractor routed through sensitive areas to save money.
Yeah it really sucks when all those farmers have to sue to keep their land from getting stolen.
Yeah it really sucks when all those farmers have to sue to keep their land from getting stolen.
@@tonyburzio4107 You are correct, I also forgot about the environmental agencies involved.
@@michaelalcocer6778 I think this is erroneous for the reason that one's government arbitrarily takes land without consent. That is not the case, the government will always negotiate with ranchers the amount of land they need, the value of the land, and compensation. That farmers may not like the portion of land that is being asked under eminent domain is one thing, but certainly the government does not take arbitrarily.
Such a waste of money
Why is this being built? Is this going to transport field workers?
So current estimates are the complete project will cost ~$202 million per mile. We got 82 miles here, so I'm guessing it will end up costing north of $25 billion and be done around 2040.
In 2050 dollars. The longer a project is delayed the more it’s going to cost
@@russellcstevens and that's their best case projection. Projected ridership has already been reduced 35%, cost of tickets increased 30%, and environmental savings reduced by 30%. Stop the waste.
Boy the haters sure are out in full force. Y’all love to complain with your BS claims and rhetoric, but fail to offer up any better ideas. More freeway lanes and expanding airports? That’s what we’ve been doing for decades, and traffic only gets worse and air travel still generally sucks. Plus those would cost far more and be less beneficial in the long run, and do nothing to solve the inherent downsides with those options. Not to mention not everyone likes to drive or fly, or is able to.
Just cause you and everyone in your little corner of the world may never use this train, doesn’t mean there aren’t millions of other people who will. The millions who travel between SoCal, the Central Valley and Bay Area every year, currently forced to drive or fly, or take current rail which takes much longer than both. High speed rail will be a game changer just as it already has been for decades across the world. It won’t be for everyone, just as driving or flying aren’t, but for many it’ll open up new opportunities and increased mobility between the state’s megaregions.
It's OK to feel all alone Don Quixote.
Fantasy land planning here.
Sadly, at least in the next 4 years, this will not come into fruition.
It wasn’t going to anyway. There’s only been enough funding identified for finishing Merced to Bakersfield. If/when more funding materializes, it’ll be used to go to San Jose and SF as that’s CHSRA’s next priority. Only after SF-Bakersfield is up and running will CHSRA start heading south. Right now that’s looking like late 2030s at the earliest, and maybe 2040s.
I am confident that there’s no way SoCal will be cool letting HSR end in Bakersfield, and will push to at least get it to Palmdale so it can connect with Metrolink to LA, even if California has to fund it on its own.
Sadly, at least in the next 40 years, this will not come into fruition
@@tylerspazNot true at all. It will connect to LA before 2040. That's 16 years from now, maybe 20 tops.
California tax payers wanted this they should pay for it. No to federal funding.
@@marimunny9194 So red state governors should stop receiving federal funding, federal services, etc., since they like less government.
Nowheresville to nothingstown
Waste of money
I found this video did not mentioned anything about project completion date? Alright then.
In 2030-2035 it will be operational in the red county segment from Merced to Bakersfield where construction has been making solid progress. Construction may eventually begin in the blue counties of Santa Clara and Los Angeles.
Nooooo, who’s going there? How about a commuter to Anaheim from the mountains…..🇺🇸🏖️
I hope trump doesn’t halt this project.
Hopefully not. This project has been delayed far too much already and anymore backlash from the new federal government for the next four years is going to be rough.
No to federal funding! Ca taxpayers voted yes on this stupid thing YOU pay for it!
Dude, you have politicians who friggin' insulted the guy and who bet the farm on him not getting re-elected, and lost the bet. It's time to square the tab with the house.
@@marimunny9194I've said this from the start. It is wildly presumptive that the feds will fund this. A 1% sales tax would have paid for it by now, from the initial 2008 vote. Of course, that never would have passed, so here we are with an unfunded train, expecting a bailout. California has no leadership at all.
I do. This is a grotesque waste of money.