BLOWING UP : HM-DCC Update
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- Опубліковано 14 жов 2024
- Here I give my view on the situation with the blowing up chips of HM-DCC from my own experience with the product. I have tried to find the PWM specification of my Gaugemaster DO1, all I could find was the voltage and amperage. Also Hornby to do not specify what the safe PWM for their HM7000 chip.
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Latest Hornby advice is not to use any analogue controller pending further lab trials. How to promulgate this to the wider audience is under discussion. There is no way to retro amend the boxes or included paperwork, thus reliance is upon product page and web-site / social media announcement. As you say it is being worked and it will be sorted.
As I have said, you and I have the time. I pity the 14 year old that has bought this with the pocket money he has saved.
My decoder literally blew up two hours ago in my P2 LNER and I'm quite mad since my first attempt at the HM7000 was in April which was faulty. Then, the second one came and until now it worked fine in my Dublo Scotsman until I decided to fit the decoder in my new P2 to see if I can get more for my railroad 9F as well. With this one exploding and nearly melting the loco shell I ain't getting any more until I get the proper Hornby Digital Power Supply later this year and give them some time to hopefully clear up and improve upon the system. Also, just a simple question. Which analogue power supply/controller is safe to use with the HM7000?
None, they do not recommend using any. In my opinion I would throw it all in the bin and not use the system again. It is not fit for purpose and it does not do what it says on the box. A total failure.
I only use the HM7000 on a test track only to programe the chip for sound and switch to DCC operation only and not Bluetooth if you already have a DCC controller
I'm going to hold off buying HM7000 until Hornby provide an update/list of compatible controllers (they should have done the same as a computer motherboard manufacturer testing common components for compatability). The concept looks great though. Also still waiting for the Android App. Look forward to your detailed review.
200%
There have been reports of issues with DC Gaugemaster power supplies from various sources and probably best to avoid them. No issues with DCC power supplies reported so far
This is the issue, Gaugemaster have been providing DC power for millions of users for years. Why should we avoid an excellent source of DC power because Hornby introduce a product that is not only incompatible with Gaugemaster products but some of their own too. There are issues with DCC power too as in this video. ua-cam.com/video/G5rW3SiJvdA/v-deo.html. I am sending mine back today, I am glad to see the back of it. However, people do what is right for them on their own model railway.
@@PaulBriden I was just highlighting what I had seen from other U Tubers on the same subject. The reviewer in his video I believe did state Hornby had advised not to use DC power sources until more lab work had been done.
An interesting point is when we switch from DC to DCC we do not bitch and moan when we have to change power supply. The Hornby HM7000 is brand new and will need some development work based on in service experience like with all brand new products. It has so many pluses and is very disruptive along with being a game changer in the expensive sound chip world. Think of it, these are 50% cheaper than their competitors and no more expensive re blows at a dealer. This will drive change and benefit all railway modellers
@@billyvauls5050 Well actually I am not sure that it is once you factor all the costs in. R30302TXS a class 08 with the decoder fitted £263.99......R30155TXS a class 56 with the decoder fitted £263.99. You can buy other locos with sound for a lot cheaper than this brand new if you are prepared to put the effort in. At the end of the day I have had enough of the whole thing. People buy and run what is right for them. It is your coin sir, you have worked for it, you spend it on what you like. Enjoy your model railway.
@@PaulBriden I did say in another post there would be a lot of “wailing and gnashing of teeth” as this is very disruptive. Even U tubers are asking why the likes of Zimo and ESU etc can now justify circa £120 for a sound chip and file when Hornby can do it for about 50% of the cost?
If you want to get into DCC sound on a budget with relatively easy installation with no soldering and download sound files on the running track as opposed to a programming track then give it a go. You can sound equip 2 locos for the price of one. This disruptive product can only be good for the hobby.
@@billyvauls5050 This fallacy you need a programming track to change anything on a loco is incorrect. All you are doing is quoting what others say. Here in my video I show this. ua-cam.com/video/Y2lmZ0Xxiug/v-deo.html. Also you are not accurate, you can buy a DC ready diesel for around £140.00, add the Zimo £120.00 that is £260.00 Around the same price as a ready fitted loco with HM 7000. Also locos fitted with these decoders will run with any DC power, some with sound. The HM 7000 ties you to what Hornby say you should have and blows up using certain DC controllers. Now, if you find a smart phone screen too small and have to buy an ipad, an Ipad is more expensive than an N-CAB. You do what is right for you, however, in my opinion the overall cost of this product as a whole package over the long term is not really any better value than Zimo, Loksound etc. As I say, if this is a silver bullet to you that is fine, I wish you luck with your new purchase.
This problem with analogue controllers you mention is not the only issue I have seen with the decoders I think the packaging for the decoders is so inaccurate and misleading, I had to return the decoder I purchased. I only recently started to take an interest in the hobby in the last 6 months, back then I thought the Hornby brand was the gold standard and initially would only look at their products. After several disappointments, I have exact opposite opinion now and really try to avoid all Hornby products, this is such a shame I feel like they are trashing their brand with poor quality products.
I echo all you say. What I do not get is there TTS product runs fine in analogue yet this cannot even be powered by what it was designed for, with analogue power. I never even got to running mine in analogue as a stand alone mode. ua-cam.com/video/xsDJajH9C3c/v-deo.html
To start off I defy almost everyone to find the specs for a dc controller that is maybe 20 (or whatever) years old.
Disclaimer. I know close to nothing about electronics. Having said that, I do know that PWM is Pulse Width Modulation, which is basically a constant supply voltage that is switched on and off very rapidly and has a square wave form. In other words what the loco motor reacts to is the average voltage of the varying on and off lengths of time. These pulses are in the form of a square wave which is the same wave form that DCC uses to send its signals to the decoder, superimposed on a constant track voltage. Perhaps the issue is related to this as the decoder might be trying to interpret the PWM pulses as valid commands with who knows what results? WRT to cheaper controllers I suspect that they don't use square wave pulses but rely on a half wave rectification of standard DC wave form. The cheaper way to do this would be to rely on the frequency of the mains supply to generate these pulses, which is 50 Hertz in your country if I am not mistaken? Of course this diatribe has close to zero chance of being related to the problem. For what it's worth Soundtraxx released their Blunami decoders late last year that do what Hornby is trying to do but they are pretty expensive.
I hope for your sake that Hornby sorts the issues out soon.
All I know is I am sending mine back on tuesday..Happy Easter.
I use a Gaugemaster D, so it seems it isn't ok to use with this new HMDCC Chip. don't think I'll bother with them until Hornby sort out the problems
Sending mine back tomorrow.
Thanks Paul for another very useful video.
Like you and many others, I use a Gaugemaster Analogue controller. Of my fleet of 60+ locos around 40 are DCC Ready of which only one (a Walthers Milwaukee Rd diesel) has any sort of chip fitted - in this case Sound.
I’d already worked out the easiest and safest way of trying out HM7000 would be to buy the Hornby Power Supply, connect it separately to the track and switch that from the mains instead of the Gaugemaster if I wanted to try out Hornby’s Bluetooth system. As you say, it would mean removing all other locos from the layout though.
What Hornby did suggest in their Q&A video was to connect their Power Supply to a normal DCC style bus wire, though, so I might do that as I’m yet to wire my layout up fully.
Alternatively, I could follow the advice of your other Commenters and go for full ESU sound chips. That means paying out for a full DCC system at £170+ plus chips, which ultimately adds up to £4,500 which 1) I don’t have; and 2) my better half would undoubtedly want spent on other things around the house first.
Anyway, please keep us all updated!
I have done a couple of reviews that I have added. I am sending my HM-DCC chip back if Hornby have not resolved the issues in a few days. I can see me or my Mrs leaving a point open while running in analogue and the chip blowing up. Normal digital locos either start up and move, or in the case of Hornby TTS move silently on there way.
I do have a full DCC system and will be sending this chip back.
I used Notebook Power Adaptor (15VDC output) as a source of HM7000 21-pins, but suddenly the HM7000 blown up after playing less than 10 times. I don’t know why?
I sent all my HM7000 stuff back, I am having nothing more to do with the product.
Have Hornby not heard of these things called capacitors. They are incredibly useful for smoothing out spikes.
I do not know, I am sick and tired of it. We will be Sending mine back on Monday for a refund. I hope you are enjoying your Easter Sunday.
And yet Hornby claim the new Chips are NRMA complient. I have a guagemaster, dcc set-up, and was hoping to try a chip out when the android version was available. Was fully expecting the guagemaster PSU to supply the power. Have a mix of chips, including Hornby ( about 50 ) and never fried one ???
The same as, I have never had a fried chip except from the Chippy.
This situation is beginning to look similar to good old Zero One.
Here they go, jumping in and trumpeting their space-age product whilst keeping their fingers tightly crossed out of camera shot.
Credit due to them, intending to deliver the next _big_ thing en masse is highly commendable. Just a shame that it can turn out quite differently and not even be the next _best_ thing either.
That's when you get the measure of the man/woman/company. That's when our fondness for Hornby, based on the place in our hearts it's occupied from childhood Christmases past is tested. Unfortunately here it seems wanting, with this product and with several others in several other rural rusty sidings.
I'm tiring of how taught these emotional bonds have been stretched and how frequently too.
I pity the employees behind the scenes doing their utmost to repair, rejig and reinvigorate who must share my plea to just give them a break.
Watching a certain TV series, how many times have you realised that your jaw's been on the floor for ages without you noticing because of the stream of apparent business balls~ups? It could be funny if only we didn't care for them so.
Eloquent, emotional and true. Happy Easter.
@@PaulBriden Thank you for your candid considerations of what's new in the full sized world and sent to tempt us with its promises of easing the burdens of being master of all we survey in our own creations and I hope that you're having a bonny Easter.
Great video. I really think Hornby jumped the gun on this HM7000 decoder. Clearly it's not for ordinary dc control. It only works with an Apple iOS phone or ipad. Back in old days on the Hammant & Morgan controllers you could choose full wave modulation or half wave. Modern dc controller don't offer this option any more. As you've found out, model railway power controller manufacturers don't bother to tell you what the PWM is either. So unless you are gonna connect an oscilloscope to your controller, you won't know either. Just another screw up from Hornby.
Not good is it. Mine is being sent back. All I need to do is open the wrong siding with the loco fitted with this while running analogue, and I have smoke. I never even tried to run it in analogue. What is supposed to happen is you turn up the analogue controller to max power and the Ipad etc runs it with Bluetooth.
Just got 2 locomotives with DCC fitted when I put them on the track they runaway how can I stop this
HM-DCC I have no idea I sent all my stuff back. In my opinion it is tripe. However, if you are using a standard DCC controller, ie an NCAB etc. CV-008 twice.
never ever be an early adopter of new tech. saves you from exploding batteries, e-scooter fires and BURNT OUT CHIPS, in this case. Alos, if going DCC, go completely, not some half and half measure, and stick with one supplier, don't mix, they all say it's all compatible, but no, it isn't,
Maybe I am too adventurous. Bottom line, your words are wise. I do with cars, I wait till the end of the production run when manufacturers have cured all the faults and are knocking them out cheap to make way for the new model. Thank you for your constructive input.
For the more technical folk: they basically claim in the manual that running it on classic analog (rectified 50 hz) or 'Doppelschwellen' mode (100 hz mode available on more recent Bühler power units) is not possible. This also excludes running it on LM317 units without buffer capacitors as these also have a waveform output unless you add enough buffer caps to really flatten the output.
The only way it seemingly works is feeding it with the correct harmonics of a 'switching' power brick, but given the way China works even that could end up with issues as soon as you source the components from different sources.
You are wrong they do not claim that you cannot run in analogue. They say there maybe issues, however they explain to you how to do it.
However, the big selling point was you could use an analogue controller to power the chip and bluetooth from your phone etc to control the locos functions. Now we all know what they claim is not true I cannot see the point of it.
Sounds to me like Hornby might have a transient overvoltage protection and - or a dv/dt (rate of rise of voltage) problem that has slipped through their design, validation and testing regime. As you rightly state other manufacturers work in the same electrical environment (re the Gaugemaster analogue controllers - as history has shown plus are extremely robust over the long term as reflected in the comments) and you bought based on a blanket description of suitability printed on the box. The goods I would argue are not fit for purpose for that intended environment commonly associated with that sector of our model railways. As you rightly point out it could be youngsters that purchase or use so get unwittingly caught out. So my expectation is you shouldn’t have a problem getting your money back if the problem persists - UK consumer protection is really good in that respect. My concern is that if they haven’t blown now might blow in the future if the design/ reliability margins are right on the line. It might result in a recall from Hornby pending their investigation unless they make a clear declaration on the box of the exclusions relevant for dc operation. At the moment, to me, it is like a car manufacturer saying their car is only safe to drive on only particular types of concrete roads but not on asphalt but they have hidden that restriction deep in the instruction manual…. Have clarified some of my original text, best regards and hope helps. Stephen
Very very well put, very eloquent. Important point that it may blow in the future, I never thought of that. Happy Easter.
There is a saying READ THE INSTRUCTIONS. As a long time user of electronic gadgets this even applies to new products. 😂
Correct, however if the instructions are different to the claims made about the product both verbally and on the front of the box does that not tell you something ?
Let's be clear... Hornby manufactures model trains, and they know what a PWM controller is. And now, they manufacture DCC chips that have problems with analog power supplies... I have a dozen DCC equipped engines, from the manufacturer or as an aftermarket modification, with four different brands of controllers, including Gaugemaster, two DCC controllers (MRC Prodigy and NCE) and I run them indifferently on analog and DCC with ZERO problems at this day. So, what the flux with those chips from Hornby ? Why something as obvious as a 100% compatibility with analog controllers is not warranted by Hornby, while not problematic with ordinary DCC chips ? Can someone with a background in microelectronics and low voltage electrics explain me what has gone wrong with Hornby on this one ? This kind of problem makes no sens for me...
I have never had any DCC chip that had problems with analog controllers since more than ten years of modelling, that's a first for me to see such a thing.
200%. I do not get it either, especially when their own TTS chip runs fine in analogue. What is not so amusing is the fact that on page 16-17 of the pdf they have a list of their own analogue controllers as being unsuitable to provide analogue power to the new chip. In the airline industry with such a fiasco those responsible would be suspended on full pay, then be out of work once the due process had been followed.
@@PaulBriden Agreed. Boeing has recently manufactured an airplane not compatible with the pilots qualified to fly it, to be simplistic, and the company is in jeopardy by now. Not thinking to the compatibility with ALL analogue controllers, it is beyond understatement. You take components sturdy enough to eat 1amp 12V DC, and/or you filter it on input, that is what everyone else does. I have not heard of this problem with Soundtraxx Blunami decoders, so, you can do it !
Interesting, and another good reason to keep away from DCC just yet. The whole system is as yet too fragile, inconsistent and complicated. I guess it will get there in about another 10 years but until then users are just crash test dummies or beta testers as the aspect of reliability and backwards compatibility is just too vast for any manufacturers to test and take in to account.
The rest of DCC is fine if at times a little complicated. This system is supposed to be ground breaking which it would be if it worked. It is such a shame Hornby did not do more development on this.
Very sad state of affairs...
Sticking with Digitrax and ESU. Hornby cannot be trusted, their chips will not fit into other makes of loco either.
You look at the list no small locos are listed, just the class 08. I imagine it is fun fitting the super capacitor to this. It is such a shame, it promised so much.
Stop buying Hornby junk decoders. All my locomotives are fitted with ESUloksound which I’ve had no problems with at all.
Me too. I just thought I would give it a try.
I have a digitrax dcs210+ and have 2 of the hm7000 decoders no problems so far I set them up with the sounds and alter cvs using the app then switch it to Dcc and use my throttle it may change once the legacy dongle gets released but I’m happy for now
@@stephenbromley2302 to me Hornby decoders sounds like absolute shit. If you want quality go ESU. I have over 20 locos fitted with no issues. Stop wasting time and money on crap
I only have ESU LOKSOUND decoders, the HM7000 decoders are a budget range, some modellers have said they will never buy an expensive decoder now the HM7000 decoder range has come out, I say fair play to them, it’s a matter of choice as far as I’m concerned, I’d still like to see somebody fit one of these new decoders to a Hornby class 08 shunter.
@@StormmyStormmy I am sending mine back.
Thanks for that Paul. i have the same dcc controller as you the gauge master PRODIGY ADVANCE2 { not wireless } so i should be ok .how authentic are the sounds on these down load files do you know Paul ? i do have a small gauge master dc controller that I test my new locos on the little hand held one, so thank you for the heads up Paul.
The sound file for the Coronation class in my view is excellent, it is just the product does not do what it says it should do. This is the latest update. ua-cam.com/video/qcvw1hSJ920/v-deo.html