There is mod for finding sources of lag: Observable. It can measure your server performance and find the blocks and entities that use the most processing time. For me it was mostly chutes, funnels and carriage contraptions.
i would say that the problem with this is that it funnel only output the items it get from the drops be course the sword is a different slot. like with the vanilla furnace the coal u have to hopper in through the side. i don't even think u can output the sword be course is actually an input slot
i think this is just a very good review on what to fix for Create mod devs. the mod is all about that massive industrialization/automation idea and yet, we can't use that many before the game starts to lag. in my world i just got an andesite alloy farm and iron farm and it's getting laggy already.
except it doesn't, mending doesn't work on deployers because the xp is collected in the form of nuggets and cannot be used to repair the tools until turned into liquid xp and poured with a spout, just like he tested.
I think it could have been worth measuring lag when not looking at things too. Some things can be lag-free if they’re hidden, but others are poorly optimized and lag you through walls. This could be a game changer for a few blocks
This gives me an idea of a world where towns are connected by trains to transport items, and there's only maybe 1 major factory (or relatively smaller ones) per village. I guess at that point you'd need to force load chunks though if you want them all to run...
yeah this with a chunk loading mod would be ideal, especially as tps lag isnt an issue (for foxy) he should be able to chunk load all the factories but only the close ones will cause fps lag, this also gives more reason to use trains
V good episode! Even though it wasnt in-game progress or roleplay I actually found the lag investigation interesting and genuinely useful as a create server host
Whenever contraptions stop, like trains, you can feel that in your frames. A second primary cause of lag are funnels, mostly on large inventories, like humongous drawer networks in a certain ski resort...
Not too surprised to hear that belts cause a lot of lag. Hoppers are one of the laggier vanilla items because they constantly check 'is there an item on top of me I should add to my inventory?'. So I'd expect any Create inventories where you can just throw items in, like Depots, Chutes, and Conveyors, to all have the same problem.
Actually, a large part of hopper lag comes from the way they add a couple of microseconds per tick per slot in the target inventory. The spatial query only takes up a small portion of that (I haven’t tested this with lots of entities, as I am not certain what data structure Minecraft uses for entity spatial queries + I always make sure to minimize items / mob spawns)
That’s why things like putting composters on top are only discussed in the context of hopper chains, where the hoppers don’t have a chance of failing to push into the first slot and also are transferring into smallish inventories
another tip!! if you use the Functional Drawers mod (i know you already have storage drawers but just hear me out) you can use the fluid drawers in that mod for most likely a much less laggy fluid storage solution! it works with create pipes and looks pretty good too. it might solve that problem of tanks creating lag!!
It is sad to see that this mod is not optimized enough to build on a scale as big as we have seen from a few different UA-camrs (Foxy, Beardstone etc.), but for one, it is still a mod, and for two, maybe in the future the devs on this mod might be able to optimize it...? I know, wishful thinking. But hey, now we know what really causes lag :)
While I do appreciate the test, and it is *mostly* accurate, it only tested the lag blocks produce on their own. The way storage drawers work means that trim itself doesn't lag, as your test proved, but trim *does* increase the lag generated by drawer controllers, and/or drawer controller... "interns" (since the algorithm doesn't like the other word). When an item enters a drawer controller or "intern" it needs to find a place to put it, so unless it has a list of precached locations it checks the 6 adjacent blocks to see if they're either a drawer that can fit the item, a drawer that can't fit the item, or a piece of trim. In the first case it places the item and the process is finished, but in the second or third it has to then check the 6 blocks adjacent to the drawer or trim it found, (minus the starting block), so each step out means 5 more checks. Thus, for an item to enter a drawer controller and reach a drawer 20 blocks away, the game has to check a minimum of 101 blocks (and that's assuming a straight line with no other drawers attached). When it's a sprawling storage system, you'd potentially be looking at tens of thousands. There are ways to cut down on the number of checks (i.e. via caching drawer locations), which I imagine the mod does, but even that still generates lag; the mod has to either recheck pathways whenever you place or break a block (unlikely, given how that would put unnecessary strain on mining and quarries), or periodically recheck cached pathways to make sure they're still valid, which means the system wouldn't lag quite as much when dumping in items, but would still passively lag even without inputs (and given how much the drawer controllers lagged in your test, that'd be the most likely scenario). TL;DR: drawer trim doesn't lag *on its own,* but it still contributes to lag a lot more than your test would indicate when it's connected to drawers and storage controllers. The test was helpful and I appreciate it, and drawers are definitely still better than belts, but it is a bit misleading (albeit unintentionally). That aside, I love the series, and I hope your holidays went well.
@@ZiarayZ True, it would be purely server side, and thus if you're only interested in client FPS it's a perfect solution. It would still affect singleplayer FPS, since that runs a virtual server on the same machine, but with a dedicated server it'd be fine (well, until your giant laggy storage system gets you an angry message from the admins). I should have clarified, sorry. I just assumed the test was for lag overall, not just client FPS.
Chutes are laggier than hoppers because they: 1: Have to actually have the items inside of them so that they can be rendered when needed. 2: They are much faster than hoppers. 3:They have to check for fans AND their direction.
I would suggest taking a look at TangoTek's latest Create series and skimming through to see the cobblestone generator he used. It uses much less space (roughly 10x10) and is just as fast as your setup. While his only creates 56 cobble every half second, adding one more row is easy to bring it up to a full 64. I use it in my create world.
Thank you so much for doing this experimentation and letting us learn lessons from your work. As someone just starting out with the Create mod, I know I'll take this to heart. I don't know if I'll ever build to the scale you are, but still. Compacting things is nice. I'm actually quite curious HOW you compacted everything. Cutting out all the building bits or speeding them up kinda makes it hard to follow.
I'm playing on a 8gb ram laptop with a graphics card that is REALLY proving its worth and even my SMALL SCALE factories are lagging. I have a 1 block cobble generator (meaning 1 drill for 1 cobble but I have other blocks for processing) and a similar 1 block obsidian farm. My cobble farm which is used for iron has about 50 other peices to it where my obsidian has bare minimum (I even have hoppers 😅). Cobble is SUPER laggy. My obsidian farm suddenly was my best friend. This is making me reconsider all of my create processes and how I can vanilla them if possible. My base? With my 2 presses 1 deployed and auto crafter? If I process my brass AND andesite AND a 3rd item, I get PowerPoint minecraft. I say this because while I'm sure I'm one of 5 people stupid enough to try these mods on a laptop with barely any beef to it, I do think that the more MASSIVE builds make it worse. And while tracks are SUPER expensive, even my partner who is playing on a Mac tore down a farm because he also got PowerPoint minecraft 😂
Before everything, I know a little about create coding and belts should be those that are the most laggy because they have to: Check for power input, check for items coming through and take them from the last belt block, check for power coming throguh the belt, power things through itself and take dropped items or things from other belts
On mending tools used by deployers: For anyone else wondering, as of version 1.2.8 of the addon: "Create: Enchantment Industry," tools enchanted with mending that are given to a deployer will now directly absorb exp dropped from mobs. Any excess exp will be collected by the deployer as exp nuggets. So in the newest versions, to get a mob grinder set up, all you need is a single filtered item output (brass funnel / smart chute) from the deployer that will deny the type of sword you gave the deployer. You don't need to filter by item data or set up replacement swords. So long as the sword you use has mending, you should be all set! Note: This update was released in February 2024 (2 months after this video was published.)
I was actually amazed at the amount of create contraptions, trains (to include npc 'ai'), and framed blocks you were using and not having massive lag issues. Maybe the over 1k fps base helped, but it definitely shoed the benefits of running even a single player world in a server.
Hey Foxy. Not sure if it's too modded for you, but if you add apotheosis you can make the spawners chuck out more mobs and quicker (can also silk touch spawners). You could also add mob grinding utils to add something to kill them where you can add high levels of looting for more drops.
@@brightbound3309 isn't it ftb chunks that does that? I may be confusing the 2 but I know what you mean. Playing ATM7/8 I found that loading chunks that way caused some machines to not work.
Foxy there exists a mod called easy villagers which allows you to pick up villagers as items, and place them inside of blocks that make breeding/farming/curing villagers and trading wayyyy easier. I wonder if that’ll also help lag
I just want to say, the fact that the video stuttered/buffered and basically lagged during the intro of you talking about lag is a perfect coincidence but it made the intro even better. Pretty sure it was my internet, but it was funny.
FYI fps drop from drawers is largely coming from the display. So if you have several drawers in one area and don't need to see the contend all the time conceal the label to take away the frame impact of the drawers nearly completely.
Fun Fact: Standard _Netherite Diving Boots_ prevent Players (You) from being affected by Conveyor Belts. An investment into that piece of armor would be very useful moving forward
To solve your problem I recommend: Adaptive Performance Tweaks, it really saves me (even when I have flywheel) Make sure to download the whole series (5+ mods)
Foxy, you seem to have not learned that create allows you to enchant tools automatically without need of books. You can build enchantment factories. There is even an enchanting list that you can give a blaze burner to enchant things.
Tanks have transparency which can depending on the engine be costly at large scale. The belts are probably because of how minecraft handles entities which are invisible and get replaced with the entity model in which is "on" it since the object your see on the belt likely isn't real and instead just a representation of the item in it similar to how a chain of hoppers works.
The worst lag is definitely produced by Mechanical arms, because they have to check every single block in range for whether they are allowed and able to take/deploy from/into them. Conveyor belts are really horrible too. Things with inventories are generally pretty intense. Vanilla Hoppers for example have to check every slot to see if they can take an item. I assume Create stuff works the same
So for the pickaxe repair, You have rotation and cogs, generally you want them to go as fast as possible. But what if instead you tried to get a wheel (or arm) to go around once per cycle, You know so when the hand got back to 60/0 the detector block would redstone, and that would be how often you want the pick repaired. Or any contraption really, could be a minecart, just only let the pick come out for repairs based on about how long a half a durability bar lasts. or you could use the redstone timers
You can actually use the same Create addon that adds the Disenchanters to duplicate enchanted books, if you want an endless supply of Mending, Unbreaking, and Looting swords.
yoou should try adding JER (just enough resources) and JEP (just enough professions), they are like JEI, but give information on mob drops, dungeon chests, and even vilager trades!
Your villager trade change to the option you can "afford", and when you buy a unbreaking book, which cost 36 emeralds, it only leave 28 emeralds which isn't enough to buy another unbreaking book, so Minecraft switch to the option you can buy, and so it switch to stasis
If I'm not completely wrong, basically all block entities that interact with inventories like belts or chutes are a cause of lag on mass scale. Especially the ones that extract or push items from anything, since they are constantly checking if they can pull smt. It gets a lot worse if it's interacting with a filter. Rollers and harvesters are worse too since they're checking if they can replace/break blocks. The easiest way to reduce lag a little is to build more spread apart so it's not too clustered together, The server tps will still tank a bit though. Its a great and informative video ^^
I feel like if you wanted to further slow down the use of durability on the blaze farm swords adding sharpness to them could help somewhat? I figure the fewer hits it takes to kill them the less durability it'll use in the long run.
Thanks for this! I've been losing my mind trying to figure out why my server got so laggy. Thinking about it, it got worse when I started working with fluids...
The things that causes lag in create are the filtered smart chutes and brass funnels/tunnels. This becomes a huge problem when connected to inventory systems.
7:25 For this "problem" i got myself a mod that adds a few more enchantments. One of them is "Indestructibility" what makes the item it gets put on unable to loose durability. Its a "bit" OP but hey, for a Mob farm its a good thing. (And for your ABSOLUTE ULTIMATE Armor you spend AGES to make it and enchant it and you dont have the motivation to make it again or fix it when its broken. XD) The mod is named "More Enchantments" by ninjabunny_1. (It has a few REALLY nice enchantments that are actually pretty useful so Indestructibility is not the only reason for this mod!)
When i was playing the create astral modpack, i hadnt realized at first that belts were the cause of my lag, i barleu get 60 in vanilla mc but belts in create are the biggest lag generator
Belts for sure but the biggest issue is vaults with multiple filtered brass funnels. Having a setup with belts, vaults and brass funnels to unload a boring machine and then send the items to differents processing stations is a lag machine. Your vault setup at 5:37 was definitely the biggest issue.
Developers must have seen your video and corrected it. You can also make gunpowder using harming potion. Also if you want to keep the cobblestone supply up you could us Tangos glitched farm.
110 mods is small, and a good number of those are probably tiny mods that have little impact on performance. i get that testing on the empty world was meant to prove it was the stuff in the world, but most mainstream packs are running the 200 mark or more (ignoring outliers like all the mods or packs built for performance with few mods which obviously do not count).
As someone who has had to watch far too many let's plays to try and gain information, I was happily surprised to enjoy your presentation style and video. My only wish is you would have tried some things like andesite encased shafts, and I didn't notice encased chain drives in the list of tested. Could have been me though.
You should create a system which uses a combination of redstone, Create Mod, skulk sensors, and other such things in order to automatically shut down certain machines to save fuel and whatnot.
Something worth amending with your testing, all the drawer controller slaves with one drawer controller. Reason being the slaves tie themselves to a drawer controller, and knowing that having no drawer controller could explain why the slaves did better. It is possible they could be just as laggy if they have a controller connected to them Plus, the redstone setup could've been improved if you use brass funnels instead of andesite so you can put entire stacks on the belt rather than one at a time. That's one thing you can do to help improve framerate is increase throughput, so you don't have to have so many machines processing at the same time.
Just found this video here. Great work! One thing ive done is use a separate java for minecraft called adoptium. Literally gained 100fps and was able to go from 8 chunk remder distance with lag spikes to 40 chunk render distance.
if you have the creates crafts and additions mods, you can use biodiesel to superheat blaze burners for much more power in a steam engine! although you have blaze cakes being automated so that might not be necessary, it still might be a way to use the diesel factory for another purpose
Moral of the story: Use the god damn trains. Build every factory in a different location and connect them with a vast train network because a few trains is probably not as laggy as a whole town of entities.
i've never touched belts or tanks in my Create Mod worlds, i just build trains. i think its the track curves and the bogeys that create the most lag, the Create Mod animated doors probably do a little too, but doesnt often make sense which is the worst, eg running trains are sometimes less laggy than disassembled trains
As you have enchantment industry, look at the enchantment blaze burner. you can also duplicate enchantment books using the printing thing (Looks like the sprout that fills buckets)
This is not really on the lag topic, and I am not sure if you already know this fact as I have not seen 100% of your videos (Yet!) But as well as using the Diesel Generators update for the Biodiesel, you can also use it on blaze burners, Using the Create: Crafts and additions mod; it is possible to make blaze burners take liquid inputs. Using a Rolling Mill on a piece of bamboo will create a straw, and right-clicking a blaze burner with said straw will let it accept biodiesel as a fuel. On top of that, the blaze burner will not only be fueled but it will be superheated as well. While testing run time in a creative world, I found a bug where the blaze burner would stay superheated well after it was out of fuel. (I am not sure what was causing this, or if it is still present in all worlds) Even still, the run time for a single bucket of biodiesel is at least nine minutes. However, as it only takes nine buckets (or less if using pipes) to superheat nine blaze burners which will power a maxed-out steam engine generating about 300,000su for nine minutes, it is a decent alternative to the base diesel generator (although it is a decent bit bigger)
It seems like almost all the blocks that cause FPS lag are the ones that display, move, or store items or fluids, including the filters on things like the saws. I think whatever render code is displaying those item textures/models is running even if there's no item in those slots, which is causing all the lag.
pro tip, there are mods which actually outright highlight every block and tells you their microseconds per tick, aka, how laggy they are, green to red, 0 to 50,000 (theres 50,000 microseconds per tick), you could have just downloaded that and see quite quickly what causes the most lag in your world
Belts are the biggest source of lag. you're actually better off using trains for transferring items for long and short distances, lag wise. Have you ever expected trains to lag way less than belts? Blew my mind when i discovered that
Just use the Entity Culling mod, this should pretty much fix all your lag issues as it make it so your game don't register entities/block entities that aren't directly viewed by your character
Im baffled at how much lag Create can cause on its own. I typically play modpacks that range from 100 to 500 mods in a single pack. And even then. I've never had such frame issues. Then again when it came to using create I'd find a way to circumnavigate using the base mod for anything (I.E. Tanks, Belts, Pipes, ect.) and used things like Mekanism pipes or just use Pipez mod to transport mass quantities. Only using tanks and belts when it came to multi-processing factories. But only for the processes. After that I'd use a combo of chest/barrel/drawer and pipe. And when it came to SU generation I'd almost always use the compact electrical stuff (Motors from Create: Craft's and Additions. Motors from Create: New Age. Heck if neither of those are available I'd use something like Create: The Factory Must Grow engines {They have engines from Gasoline, Diesel, and even turbine}) TL:DR Mod number doesnt matter. Using alternative mods that isnt solely create may be the best option to get frames back. Recommended mods for long transport Create: New Age (For better SU generation) Mekanism/Pipez (For non-primary item transport. Mekanism for dynamic tanks) Create: The Factory Must Grow (Alternative SU generation) Tesseract (For wireless transport) Made this comment near the beginning of the video. Finished the video and I'd recommend a Cobble Gen like Triobian's which can produce 35 thousand an hour
Anything that holds an inventory causes lag really. Belts are a huge offender because each block is an inventory space and they're so easy to place everywhere. Trims work fine because they're just connecting drawers. Vaults are just chests with no moving parts. The plow and roller was a surprise though, afaik they only gain inventories through contraptions. At the end of the day, they're fine as long as you don't build your entire base in one chunk. People just love piling them up onto one small 16x16 space and then cry that all these things being processed all at once is lagging their game. Buildings irl are fine because there's no lag irl. Buildings in game don't work because lag does. So it's best to avoid multiple floors or basement levels.
You have the enchantment industry create addon, you just need 1 book of any level to duplicate and level to max level, and automate enchantment with only 1 copy of each enchantment.
there is a mod that allows you to use gasoline and diesel on blaze burners it produces max heat with a blue flame the mod is create: crafts & additions. this mod also has electricity
I remember something about the framed blocks being a huge source of lag on the gregtech modpacks. we are talking gregtech that already laggy so if framed blocks was a huge source maybe some of the lag can be bc of the buildings. it's a shame if it is , bc those buildings are fantastic
This obviously doesn’t do you any good but belt lag was actually a huge issue in the game satisfactory. I wonder if the create mod author might be able to find some optimization clues in what they did
This is unbelievably helpful, I don't have to tests nearly as much now thank you thank you thank you 🙏🐦
Absolute GEM!!! 💎
Glad it was helpful!
Have you tried the create addon "The Factory Must Grow?"@@foxynotail
There is mod for finding sources of lag: Observable. It can measure your server performance and find the blocks and entities that use the most processing time. For me it was mostly chutes, funnels and carriage contraptions.
mod name please
The name is Observable
@@Zowiezo101 How observant
"Funnels, Chutes and other Create components should now perform a little better when used with large vaults" version Create 0.5.1e
@@rockiecrafttoo bad thats not what is causing the lag, rather it is just the mere EXISTANCE of belts and funnels.
Had this video recommended to me and was curious about lag, bro tricked me into watching his modded survival let's play and enjoying it 😤
And I'm not even sorry 🤣
Thanks for watching
really late, but exactly what I did, and now Im gonna watch all the videos. We need more create content!!
You can use an attribute filter with the attribute "Is badly damaged" to remove the swords as they are almost broken to repair them
i would say that the problem with this is that it funnel only output the items it get from the drops be course the sword is a different slot. like with the vanilla furnace the coal u have to hopper in through the side. i don't even think u can output the sword be course is actually an input slot
@@MarcoKoobs It can, funnels connect to entire inventories. But I see why you would think that.
Blaze burners just produce massive amounts of particles and the fact that the blazes look at you also causes incredible lag
Having done some lag busting myself, its always fun doing tests and coming to realisation that youve chosen the laggiest way to do things :D
i think this is just a very good review on what to fix for Create mod devs. the mod is all about that massive industrialization/automation idea and yet, we can't use that many before the game starts to lag. in my world i just got an andesite alloy farm and iron farm and it's getting laggy already.
Uh Foxy, the Mending sword is already doing it's thing on the deployer. You don't need a contraption to repair it when it's already repairing itself.
Yeah no you’re fine foxy lmao!
except it doesn't, mending doesn't work on deployers because the xp is collected in the form of nuggets and cannot be used to repair the tools until turned into liquid xp and poured with a spout, just like he tested.
Just absorb the nuggets into a tank, and then spill it out again using a pump
@@jaspertwinn9696he tried that 8:00-8:30. 😅
Shhhh he his trying his best dont blame him
I think it could have been worth measuring lag when not looking at things too. Some things can be lag-free if they’re hidden, but others are poorly optimized and lag you through walls. This could be a game changer for a few blocks
This gives me an idea of a world where towns are connected by trains to transport items, and there's only maybe 1 major factory (or relatively smaller ones) per village. I guess at that point you'd need to force load chunks though if you want them all to run...
I think there's an item for trains that will load the chunks around it though, so maybe that could be used for this purpose.
yeah this with a chunk loading mod would be ideal, especially as tps lag isnt an issue (for foxy) he should be able to chunk load all the factories but only the close ones will cause fps lag, this also gives more reason to use trains
@@PasiFourmyle trains automatically load chunks around them so they can travel distance instead of just disappearing into chunks till theyre loaded
@@deepacat Oooo, that is done very useful information! I haven't played with trains yet 🙃
@@deepacat my trains will run 1000blocks away and come back with no extra items picked up. Even force loading the chunks of my farms
V good episode! Even though it wasnt in-game progress or roleplay I actually found the lag investigation interesting and genuinely useful as a create server host
I did build a redstone farm 😅
So a little bit of progression
@@foxynotail your videos and farms are informative iam a fan since all truly bedrock episodes❤❤❤
Ah yeah I meant the investigation in itself! The rest of the episode was perfect as always and you did make a bit of progress!
Whenever contraptions stop, like trains, you can feel that in your frames. A second primary cause of lag are funnels, mostly on large inventories, like humongous drawer networks in a certain ski resort...
Not too surprised to hear that belts cause a lot of lag. Hoppers are one of the laggier vanilla items because they constantly check 'is there an item on top of me I should add to my inventory?'. So I'd expect any Create inventories where you can just throw items in, like Depots, Chutes, and Conveyors, to all have the same problem.
Actually, a large part of hopper lag comes from the way they add a couple of microseconds per tick per slot in the target inventory. The spatial query only takes up a small portion of that (I haven’t tested this with lots of entities, as I am not certain what data structure Minecraft uses for entity spatial queries + I always make sure to minimize items / mob spawns)
That’s why things like putting composters on top are only discussed in the context of hopper chains, where the hoppers don’t have a chance of failing to push into the first slot and also are transferring into smallish inventories
another tip!! if you use the Functional Drawers mod (i know you already have storage drawers but just hear me out) you can use the fluid drawers in that mod for most likely a much less laggy fluid storage solution! it works with create pipes and looks pretty good too. it might solve that problem of tanks creating lag!!
It is sad to see that this mod is not optimized enough to build on a scale as big as we have seen from a few different UA-camrs (Foxy, Beardstone etc.), but for one, it is still a mod, and for two, maybe in the future the devs on this mod might be able to optimize it...? I know, wishful thinking. But hey, now we know what really causes lag :)
While I do appreciate the test, and it is *mostly* accurate, it only tested the lag blocks produce on their own. The way storage drawers work means that trim itself doesn't lag, as your test proved, but trim *does* increase the lag generated by drawer controllers, and/or drawer controller... "interns" (since the algorithm doesn't like the other word).
When an item enters a drawer controller or "intern" it needs to find a place to put it, so unless it has a list of precached locations it checks the 6 adjacent blocks to see if they're either a drawer that can fit the item, a drawer that can't fit the item, or a piece of trim. In the first case it places the item and the process is finished, but in the second or third it has to then check the 6 blocks adjacent to the drawer or trim it found, (minus the starting block), so each step out means 5 more checks. Thus, for an item to enter a drawer controller and reach a drawer 20 blocks away, the game has to check a minimum of 101 blocks (and that's assuming a straight line with no other drawers attached). When it's a sprawling storage system, you'd potentially be looking at tens of thousands.
There are ways to cut down on the number of checks (i.e. via caching drawer locations), which I imagine the mod does, but even that still generates lag; the mod has to either recheck pathways whenever you place or break a block (unlikely, given how that would put unnecessary strain on mining and quarries), or periodically recheck cached pathways to make sure they're still valid, which means the system wouldn't lag quite as much when dumping in items, but would still passively lag even without inputs (and given how much the drawer controllers lagged in your test, that'd be the most likely scenario).
TL;DR: drawer trim doesn't lag *on its own,* but it still contributes to lag a lot more than your test would indicate when it's connected to drawers and storage controllers. The test was helpful and I appreciate it, and drawers are definitely still better than belts, but it is a bit misleading (albeit unintentionally). That aside, I love the series, and I hope your holidays went well.
Is that a client fps issue though? seems closer to server lag than client lag (which he's testing for).
@@ZiarayZ True, it would be purely server side, and thus if you're only interested in client FPS it's a perfect solution. It would still affect singleplayer FPS, since that runs a virtual server on the same machine, but with a dedicated server it'd be fine (well, until your giant laggy storage system gets you an angry message from the admins).
I should have clarified, sorry. I just assumed the test was for lag overall, not just client FPS.
another thing i have noticed because you're using the sound physics mod, it introduces INCREDIBLE lag when paired with the create mod
This series is amazing Foxy. Watched all these before i started create. Now rewatching to learn more🎉
Chutes are laggier than hoppers because they:
1: Have to actually have the items inside of them so that they can be rendered when needed.
2: They are much faster than hoppers.
3:They have to check for fans AND their direction.
I would suggest taking a look at TangoTek's latest Create series and skimming through to see the cobblestone generator he used. It uses much less space (roughly 10x10) and is just as fast as your setup. While his only creates 56 cobble every half second, adding one more row is easy to bring it up to a full 64. I use it in my create world.
it's cheaty and counts as item leak (triggers the farm leak checker)
@@mrShift_0044 uhhh, what?
@@mrShift_0044 still it does the job.
Tangos cobble farm is genius honestly
@@snakeman830 It's cheating. It's abusing the game's coding to break blocks far faster than intended. It doesn't use a single drill or anything lol.
Thank you so much for doing this experimentation and letting us learn lessons from your work. As someone just starting out with the Create mod, I know I'll take this to heart. I don't know if I'll ever build to the scale you are, but still. Compacting things is nice. I'm actually quite curious HOW you compacted everything. Cutting out all the building bits or speeding them up kinda makes it hard to follow.
I'm playing on a 8gb ram laptop with a graphics card that is REALLY proving its worth and even my SMALL SCALE factories are lagging. I have a 1 block cobble generator (meaning 1 drill for 1 cobble but I have other blocks for processing) and a similar 1 block obsidian farm. My cobble farm which is used for iron has about 50 other peices to it where my obsidian has bare minimum (I even have hoppers 😅). Cobble is SUPER laggy. My obsidian farm suddenly was my best friend. This is making me reconsider all of my create processes and how I can vanilla them if possible.
My base? With my 2 presses 1 deployed and auto crafter? If I process my brass AND andesite AND a 3rd item, I get PowerPoint minecraft.
I say this because while I'm sure I'm one of 5 people stupid enough to try these mods on a laptop with barely any beef to it, I do think that the more MASSIVE builds make it worse. And while tracks are SUPER expensive, even my partner who is playing on a Mac tore down a farm because he also got PowerPoint minecraft 😂
first world problems "My minecraft FPS isn't 900+ oh noooo" lol
most ppl would be happy with 40 FPS, but this is helpful to know never the less
i paid for 144Hz monitors and I'm gonna be pissed if I don't get to use all 144Hz
the music is incredibly well paired with the create mod, just something so comfortable about the two together
Before everything, I know a little about create coding and belts should be those that are the most laggy because they have to: Check for power input, check for items coming through and take them from the last belt block, check for power coming throguh the belt, power things through itself and take dropped items or things from other belts
Lag is pollution. Thanks for doing your part and cleaning it up. 👍
since belts are causing lag
in smaller areas, a long vault with funnel is faster than belts.
You're in the rare case of just simply too many entities being loaded in one area. Time to expand and get that world wide train system in gear.
On mending tools used by deployers:
For anyone else wondering, as of version 1.2.8 of the addon: "Create: Enchantment Industry," tools enchanted with mending that are given to a deployer will now directly absorb exp dropped from mobs. Any excess exp will be collected by the deployer as exp nuggets.
So in the newest versions, to get a mob grinder set up, all you need is a single filtered item output (brass funnel / smart chute) from the deployer that will deny the type of sword you gave the deployer. You don't need to filter by item data or set up replacement swords. So long as the sword you use has mending, you should be all set!
Note: This update was released in February 2024 (2 months after this video was published.)
I was actually amazed at the amount of create contraptions, trains (to include npc 'ai'), and framed blocks you were using and not having massive lag issues. Maybe the over 1k fps base helped, but it definitely shoed the benefits of running even a single player world in a server.
I like to create shut down mechanisms that turn off production when everything is in stock.
Hey Foxy. Not sure if it's too modded for you, but if you add apotheosis you can make the spawners chuck out more mobs and quicker (can also silk touch spawners). You could also add mob grinding utils to add something to kill them where you can add high levels of looting for more drops.
apotheosis is pretty balanced for that maybe journey map to load the chunk
@@brightbound3309 isn't it ftb chunks that does that? I may be confusing the 2 but I know what you mean. Playing ATM7/8 I found that loading chunks that way caused some machines to not work.
Foxy there exists a mod called easy villagers which allows you to pick up villagers as items, and place them inside of blocks that make breeding/farming/curing villagers and trading wayyyy easier. I wonder if that’ll also help lag
the belts being a source of lag makes sense, they are inventory blocks, after all, and inventory blocks are notoriously useful for chunk-banning.
I just want to say, the fact that the video stuttered/buffered and basically lagged during the intro of you talking about lag is a perfect coincidence but it made the intro even better. Pretty sure it was my internet, but it was funny.
FYI fps drop from drawers is largely coming from the display. So if you have several drawers in one area and don't need to see the contend all the time conceal the label to take away the frame impact of the drawers nearly completely.
In general, everything holding fluids as inventories cause a lot of lag, because they have to render the amount of fluid inside.
They shouldn't have to render the amount of fluid inside if you close the windows, though, and that didn't help the lag at all.
@@nikolaysitnikov796 That is correct, but they do. I know how code works so I say what happens.
Fun Fact: Standard _Netherite Diving Boots_ prevent Players (You) from being affected by Conveyor Belts. An investment into that piece of armor would be very useful moving forward
This is what I needed to improve my iron farm, thanks!
Glad I could help!
To solve your problem I recommend: Adaptive Performance Tweaks, it really saves me (even when I have flywheel) Make sure to download the whole series (5+ mods)
Foxy, you seem to have not learned that create allows you to enchant tools automatically without need of books. You can build enchantment factories. There is even an enchanting list that you can give a blaze burner to enchant things.
I'll be doing that in the next phase. One of the reasons I made a blaze cake factory
@@foxynotailSpoilers!
@@rodimussupreme2329 aah jeez
Not create, but create: enchantment industry. it's installed in the pack, but thought i'd make it clear it's not in base create
Tanks have transparency which can depending on the engine be costly at large scale.
The belts are probably because of how minecraft handles entities which are invisible and get replaced with the entity model in which is "on" it since the object your see on the belt likely isn't real and instead just a representation of the item in it similar to how a chain of hoppers works.
The worst lag is definitely produced by Mechanical arms, because they have to check every single block in range for whether they are allowed and able to take/deploy from/into them. Conveyor belts are really horrible too. Things with inventories are generally pretty intense. Vanilla Hoppers for example have to check every slot to see if they can take an item. I assume Create stuff works the same
So for the pickaxe repair, You have rotation and cogs, generally you want them to go as fast as possible. But what if instead you tried to get a wheel (or arm) to go around once per cycle, You know so when the hand got back to 60/0 the detector block would redstone, and that would be how often you want the pick repaired. Or any contraption really, could be a minecart, just only let the pick come out for repairs based on about how long a half a durability bar lasts. or you could use the redstone timers
You can actually use the same Create addon that adds the Disenchanters to duplicate enchanted books, if you want an endless supply of Mending, Unbreaking, and Looting swords.
"I just wanna sell you stasis!" Ah, I see that Bungie has become a Minecraft Villager.
create + mythbusting = yes plz ❤
amazing vid, thanx Foxy! i hope you had an amazing holiday season 😊
yoou should try adding JER (just enough resources) and JEP (just enough professions), they are like JEI, but give information on mob drops, dungeon chests, and even vilager trades!
12:19 wht was that such a good villager impression?!?
Your villager trade change to the option you can "afford", and when you buy a unbreaking book, which cost 36 emeralds, it only leave 28 emeralds which isn't enough to buy another unbreaking book, so Minecraft switch to the option you can buy, and so it switch to stasis
If I'm not completely wrong, basically all block entities that interact with inventories like belts or chutes are a cause of lag on mass scale. Especially the ones that extract or push items from anything, since they are constantly checking if they can pull smt. It gets a lot worse if it's interacting with a filter.
Rollers and harvesters are worse too since they're checking if they can replace/break blocks.
The easiest way to reduce lag a little is to build more spread apart so it's not too clustered together, The server tps will still tank a bit though.
Its a great and informative video ^^
Man I’m glad u made things smoother but everything looks so empty and dead now.
Right! Planning is key
You should incase some components like pipes and chutes with casings so the game can render a normal block instead of it's complicated model
I feel like if you wanted to further slow down the use of durability on the blaze farm swords adding sharpness to them could help somewhat? I figure the fewer hits it takes to kill them the less durability it'll use in the long run.
I love going Nomad early game and Easy Villagers has made that a sweet reality. The airship transport from Immersive Aircraft doesn't hurt either. 😄
Thanks for this! I've been losing my mind trying to figure out why my server got so laggy. Thinking about it, it got worse when I started working with fluids...
The things that causes lag in create are the filtered smart chutes and brass funnels/tunnels. This becomes a huge problem when connected to inventory systems.
This episode is like a life lesson
In my experience the framed blocks create tons of fps lag but it's not consistent, some angles are way worse
7:25 For this "problem" i got myself a mod that adds a few more enchantments. One of them is "Indestructibility" what makes the item it gets put on unable to loose durability. Its a "bit" OP but hey, for a Mob farm its a good thing. (And for your ABSOLUTE ULTIMATE Armor you spend AGES to make it and enchant it and you dont have the motivation to make it again or fix it when its broken. XD)
The mod is named "More Enchantments" by ninjabunny_1. (It has a few REALLY nice enchantments that are actually pretty useful so Indestructibility is not the only reason for this mod!)
When i was playing the create astral modpack, i hadnt realized at first that belts were the cause of my lag, i barleu get 60 in vanilla mc but belts in create are the biggest lag generator
Belts for sure but the biggest issue is vaults with multiple filtered brass funnels. Having a setup with belts, vaults and brass funnels to unload a boring machine and then send the items to differents processing stations is a lag machine. Your vault setup at 5:37 was definitely the biggest issue.
Developers must have seen your video and corrected it. You can also make gunpowder using harming potion. Also if you want to keep the cobblestone supply up you could us Tangos glitched farm.
Corrected what?
if you have problems with transporting items, you can use the mod enderchest. You can create several different chests with a color code.
110 mods is small, and a good number of those are probably tiny mods that have little impact on performance. i get that testing on the empty world was meant to prove it was the stuff in the world, but most mainstream packs are running the 200 mark or more (ignoring outliers like all the mods or packs built for performance with few mods which obviously do not count).
Man, cant wait to see you sink your teeth into the crude oil stuff. Create the factory must grow is one of the coolest create addons
As someone who has had to watch far too many let's plays to try and gain information, I was happily surprised to enjoy your presentation style and video. My only wish is you would have tried some things like andesite encased shafts, and I didn't notice encased chain drives in the list of tested. Could have been me though.
You should create a system which uses a combination of redstone, Create Mod, skulk sensors, and other such things in order to automatically shut down certain machines to save fuel and whatnot.
Something worth amending with your testing, all the drawer controller slaves with one drawer controller. Reason being the slaves tie themselves to a drawer controller, and knowing that having no drawer controller could explain why the slaves did better. It is possible they could be just as laggy if they have a controller connected to them
Plus, the redstone setup could've been improved if you use brass funnels instead of andesite so you can put entire stacks on the belt rather than one at a time. That's one thing you can do to help improve framerate is increase throughput, so you don't have to have so many machines processing at the same time.
Just found this video here. Great work! One thing ive done is use a separate java for minecraft called adoptium. Literally gained 100fps and was able to go from 8 chunk remder distance with lag spikes to 40 chunk render distance.
if you have the creates crafts and additions mods, you can use biodiesel to superheat blaze burners for much more power in a steam engine! although you have blaze cakes being automated so that might not be necessary, it still might be a way to use the diesel factory for another purpose
Moral of the story: Use the god damn trains. Build every factory in a different location and connect them with a vast train network because a few trains is probably not as laggy as a whole town of entities.
i've never touched belts or tanks in my Create Mod worlds, i just build trains. i think its the track curves and the bogeys that create the most lag, the Create Mod animated doors probably do a little too, but doesnt often make sense which is the worst, eg running trains are sometimes less laggy than disassembled trains
some amazing lessons and data to unpack there, very interesting
the belts are technically chests so it kinda make sense for them to lag so much
As you have enchantment industry, look at the enchantment blaze burner. you can also duplicate enchantment books using the printing thing (Looks like the sprout that fills buckets)
Coming soon!
@@foxynotail lovely! Can't wait. Only add on I can't use in my world xD
This is not really on the lag topic, and I am not sure if you already know this fact as I have not seen 100% of your videos (Yet!) But as well as using the Diesel Generators update for the Biodiesel, you can also use it on blaze burners, Using the Create: Crafts and additions mod; it is possible to make blaze burners take liquid inputs. Using a Rolling Mill on a piece of bamboo will create a straw, and right-clicking a blaze burner with said straw will let it accept biodiesel as a fuel. On top of that, the blaze burner will not only be fueled but it will be superheated as well.
While testing run time in a creative world, I found a bug where the blaze burner would stay superheated well after it was out of fuel. (I am not sure what was causing this, or if it is still present in all worlds) Even still, the run time for a single bucket of biodiesel is at least nine minutes.
However, as it only takes nine buckets (or less if using pipes) to superheat nine blaze burners which will power a maxed-out steam engine generating about 300,000su for nine minutes, it is a decent alternative to the base diesel generator (although it is a decent bit bigger)
i think create devs could very much use this video to make an edition that is significantly more optimized if they wanted/cared enough.
I was shocked that the mechanical rollers were lagging your server, the most
It seems like almost all the blocks that cause FPS lag are the ones that display, move, or store items or fluids, including the filters on things like the saws. I think whatever render code is displaying those item textures/models is running even if there's no item in those slots, which is causing all the lag.
I just came to see what made lag, but then I got invested in the Lets Play. dangit!
the deployer will automatically use some of the XP nuggets it collects to repair the sword
Foxy you're the making efficient and effective farms and mechanism great work keep it up
I cannot express my thanks for this research. I made one factory to do Confectionary, and it's KILLING my FPS 😂
pro tip, there are mods which actually outright highlight every block and tells you their microseconds per tick, aka, how laggy they are, green to red, 0 to 50,000 (theres 50,000 microseconds per tick), you could have just downloaded that and see quite quickly what causes the most lag in your world
I have those. They don't give you a full picture of what type of items, if used in mass, can most attribute to lag
Belts are the biggest source of lag. you're actually better off using trains for transferring items for long and short distances, lag wise. Have you ever expected trains to lag way less than belts? Blew my mind when i discovered that
Just use the Entity Culling mod, this should pretty much fix all your lag issues as it make it so your game don't register entities/block entities that aren't directly viewed by your character
I'm using it. It doesn't seem to work well with create
@@foxynotail weird. Of what I know it should be pretty efficient, maybe modify the config to add Create Blocks to it?
Also for Drawers there is a mod called DrawerFPS
And finally, I'm pretty sure filled framed blocks are way more laggy than normal ones
Im baffled at how much lag Create can cause on its own. I typically play modpacks that range from 100 to 500 mods in a single pack. And even then. I've never had such frame issues. Then again when it came to using create I'd find a way to circumnavigate using the base mod for anything (I.E. Tanks, Belts, Pipes, ect.) and used things like Mekanism pipes or just use Pipez mod to transport mass quantities. Only using tanks and belts when it came to multi-processing factories. But only for the processes. After that I'd use a combo of chest/barrel/drawer and pipe. And when it came to SU generation I'd almost always use the compact electrical stuff (Motors from Create: Craft's and Additions. Motors from Create: New Age. Heck if neither of those are available I'd use something like Create: The Factory Must Grow engines {They have engines from Gasoline, Diesel, and even turbine})
TL:DR Mod number doesnt matter. Using alternative mods that isnt solely create may be the best option to get frames back.
Recommended mods for long transport
Create: New Age (For better SU generation)
Mekanism/Pipez (For non-primary item transport. Mekanism for dynamic tanks)
Create: The Factory Must Grow (Alternative SU generation)
Tesseract (For wireless transport)
Made this comment near the beginning of the video. Finished the video and I'd recommend a Cobble Gen like Triobian's which can produce 35 thousand an hour
110 mods, huh? ...amateur.
pathetic. i have an install i run as my main one that has 397 listed mods. 784 mods total, including unlisted or bundled mods
1 mods 🗿
(me with my 600 mod pack running at 30 fps) *sips drink*
The number of mods makes absolutely no difference to your FPS
@@foxynotail pretty sure you'll have worse Performance with 600 mods than in vanilla
just make sure you make multeble town. that helps against the lag, it isnt the prettiest but it will do the trick
Anything that holds an inventory causes lag really. Belts are a huge offender because each block is an inventory space and they're so easy to place everywhere. Trims work fine because they're just connecting drawers. Vaults are just chests with no moving parts. The plow and roller was a surprise though, afaik they only gain inventories through contraptions.
At the end of the day, they're fine as long as you don't build your entire base in one chunk. People just love piling them up onto one small 16x16 space and then cry that all these things being processed all at once is lagging their game. Buildings irl are fine because there's no lag irl. Buildings in game don't work because lag does. So it's best to avoid multiple floors or basement levels.
Hey just a reminder string can hold up sand, gravel, and any other falling objects
You have the enchantment industry create addon, you just need 1 book of any level to duplicate and level to max level, and automate enchantment with only 1 copy of each enchantment.
there is a mod that allows you to use gasoline and diesel on blaze burners it produces max heat with a blue flame the mod is create: crafts & additions. this mod also has electricity
happy new years eve Foxy
I remember something about the framed blocks being a huge source of lag on the gregtech modpacks. we are talking gregtech that already laggy so if framed blocks was a huge source maybe some of the lag can be bc of the buildings. it's a shame if it is , bc those buildings are fantastic
If you think rollers are the worst, try train bogeys in block form.
Thank you bud, Was consideing create but think for me will use it for more asthetics like the odd water wheel and winmill for movement etc
great discovery
i never thought well get a tifa and 2b inspired character
POV: Trains that not only aren’t too bad for FPS but can also transport absolutely HUGE amounts of items and liquids at a really decent speed: 🗿
This obviously doesn’t do you any good but belt lag was actually a huge issue in the game satisfactory. I wonder if the create mod author might be able to find some optimization clues in what they did