Those numbers are low considering your debt, years of training hours of working in a week, irregular hours. Thanks for putting yourself through this and being there for us.
Heavily subsidised by the taxpayer, and long term income poteinal as a doctor is huge. Fresh out of uni or with a few years experience is not representative. Just go look at your local GP surgery, they publish thier salaries and they get paid very very well for limited hours.
@@jrr3613 I'm sorry but all the evidence suggests that GP's get paid very very well, and their average hours for the salaries they receive is very good. I'm not suggesting it's easy being a GP, but to suggest that GP's with reasonable experience aren't well paid is ridiculous. Infact there is a little bit if crisis in general practise, you have an over abundance of GP's working part-time. At my local practice average salary pre tax is £60,000 and 0 GP's work full time, all 6 work part-time.
@@jrr3613 It was reported recently that a massive number of GPs only work 27 hours a week. Stop moaning, GPs make plenty enough for their level of expertise.
Thanks for speaking on this important topic. If I may, a missed opportunity is to show GBP/hour alongside your salary which comes at a staggering 11.8GBP/h. This puts things into perspective when people think 2200 GBP/month is not such a bad salary to have because they always "forget" doctors work almost 10h more per week than the average employee.
I knew junior doctors were underpaid but I didn't realise it was by this much. I'm a nurse and at our hospital, our junior doctors are absolutely amazing. They are so knowledgeable, caring and helpful. This pay is an absolute disgrace considering what they do
imagine this, if we in the UK payed limited tax our economy would be working (long as government isn't trying to collapse it) and people would have more freedom to pay for insurance and get Decent health care instead of accessible garbage free healthcare that makes most of it's money off illness and death. 2 ways you look at it, Pay to stay healthy or pay when you get sick.
By and large in my experience yes - there was a very recent YouGov poll that showed just over half of voters think doctors are underpaid - but more than half also were against doctors striking to improve their pay, which really says it all
@@OllieBurtonMed I suppose that's not that surprising. The intelligence of the British group mob has never been particularly high. Such a shame so many would try and destroy something so beautiful as the NHS. Still such is life. I'll always cast my vote to support the NHS and further pay for staff and hopefully enough people will likewise follow.
Trouble is people just Google doctor salary and then see an average of 70-100k which is a consultant salary for someone who has years of experience. It's clear people don't understand the junior doctors who have unbelievable pressure and seem to think they are paid amazing.
As a medical student who covered a medical elective I would just like to say thank you for your honest representation of the financial aspect of being a doctor in the UK. Many wish to come forward but don’t or can’t. I believe it is a much needed topic which needs to be spoken about and the general public being made aware of.
When you consider the pressures and the responsibilities that junior doctors very quickly have to manage early on in their career compared to other professions, this is a very informative video.
Currently studying medicine in Ireland and this video came up in my recommended - really appreciate your honesty and how clearly you described each post! I've subscribed 😊
If you take it as an average of 48 hours per week (I imagine a lot of the time its more than that) then the take home pay is £10.91 an hour. Considering the pressure and responsibility it's pretty awful.
Exactly the same for dietitians and other healthcare professionals. We'd all earn more per hour working for a supermarket with less responsibility. For doctors however they do eventually end up with very good salaries in the end. Other healthcare professionals don't.
Playing devil's advocate here but at least in a hospital you get paid for every hour you do. Most jobs will expect overtime and you will never get paid for it. Obviously this isn't great if you have a family to support but if your single and can spend a few years dedicating your life to your profession, you can make some nice extra money and get a lot more experience quicker, which will get you ahead.
@@kylekeenan3485 you absolutely do not get paid for every hour you do. Unfortunately there is a lot of expected unpaid overtime, and sometimes you don’t even get paid for doing extra shifts. It’s absolute BS and I’m frustrated to no end by my colleagues who do extra shifts knowing they may not get paid because then nobody does anything about it.
@@kylekeenan3485 this did make me lol slightly at the idea that doctors get paid for the hours they work. That should happen, in hospitals there is technically someone to handover jobs to but in reality they cannot pick up routine tasks, they are for emergency medical cover. There were plenty of times I'd start work at 7.30am and leave at after 7 while being paid 8-5. Not every junior doctor is a single 23 year old, many have children and lives. And those who don't shouldn't be expected to do unpaid labour. Junior doctor training always necessitates working more than the assigned hours, even if the job itself doesn't overrun... there are portfolios that need to be maintained, exams to study for (which you also have to pay for, sometimes over £1000 a time), research to do etc
You think that other graduates don't work plenty of hours to get their career established? Building a career that will earn you £200-250K per year in 2035 will take some hard work and sacrifice. Junior doctors need to get used to this reality, this video makes them sound like entitled snowflakes.
That is provided your trust pays you the full amount of your salary on time. I had heard some of our colleagues are only getting part of their pay or even not get paid at all by the NHS.
Excellent video - concise, clear and timely. I have reason to be so grateful to doctors and nurses (and all ancillary staff) - together you saved my life.
I am intersted to know your thoughts on the increase in salary for junior doctors next year after the expriation of the 2016/17 contract. I know there is word of 25-30%, which is hopeful, but as you pointed out would bring us near to 2008 levels of pay. It will have to be at least a 9%+ increase given that fact that we were excludded from the rises in pay in the last couple of years for NHS staff and consultants. Very difficult to say, but where do you think the figure will fall?, as I know you know a lot more than any junior doctor about this topic.
Being a Dr is the UK is hard, especially the beginning as lots is dumped on their plates They deserve much more. Their rota is crazy as well. I don't think they are well looked after. Often, as a ward clerk, I end up feeding them tea and biscuits ( did this for 10 yrs) while they work. Now I'm a nurse and still hold the belief Drs are really under appreciated. I wonder why their rotas are so difficult and their mental health is not considered by their manager.
This is the first completely honest explanation of a Junior Doctor's pay by a Junior Doctor I have come across. If only more Junior Doctors were honest about their pay in this way, especially within the context of the BMA's campaign for 'pay restoration'. Without this level of scrupulous honesty, no one has any clear idea of where JD pay is currently vs where the BMA claims it ought to be. Credit where credit is due.
Huge respect to people taking on this sort of responsibility for this sort of money this is basically the same money I take home but I only do 33 hours a week 3 on 4 off, and I don't think it's enough for comfortable living.
Junior doctors are great, when I was in hospital for a large time frame, having juniors come in to my room to learn about the surgery I had and basically being a living dummy for practical training was the funniest shit, made my time there so much brighter.
As a doctor from a developing country, who was looking to move to the UK to continue my medical journey, the reality has saddened me. Yes the pay is significantly, more than my home country, but you have to add things like rent, food and general cost of living.... So healthcare workers are working in miserable pay anywhere around the world, except the USA it seems...
@@thomasreilly4850 Fully trained specialist in 13-14 years...that is if your ship sails smooth and you have no hurdles in between.... Age wise you will be in your late thirties, with various mouths to feed in your family and further increase in expenses relating to children. If you are single or if you dont plan to have children by this age, things are well and good financially. But it is already a lonely world for healthcare practisioners and not having someone to talk to is the very least thing that you would want..... This is where the stereotypical quote of money cannot buy hapiness comes.....but you need to sustain yourself until you are alive.....Everyday is a grind.....
Pay is a disgrace. I did maths degree and masters in Finance and was making 6 figures in Finance sector bt 25. Granted I was doing 60 hours a week which is common in city. Also relatives in medicine making $250k plus for similar roles in US
Excellent honest video 48 hour week is short in my industry 37.5 hour week, almost unheard of 55 hour is pretty much minimum and 60 is regular Do Doctors get paid enough ? No Neither do nurses, care staff, domestics and almost everyone else who frontlines on NHS .
I really feel for you and hope that the new Prime Minister does something about your pay. Its understandable why many are leaving the NHS or not even going into it to be a doctor. Please keep at it we need you.
I have a friend of a friend who makes more as their basic pay for working nights in asda (fancy people's grocery shop) I used to think all those junior doctors striking every other month were whining but good grief my guy this is messed up
£80k of student loans! I graduated from a Computer and Information Systems University course in 2000 with £0 student loans. Back then, University was free and I was living with my parents, 2 miles from the University. My salary was higher than yours (I had a very good salary, a large portion of which was a significant amount of overtime).
Still have to bear in mind the median UK salary is 36kish. If you are underpaid, and I am not saying you aren't, so is everyone. As important doctors are you still have to pay you dues to climb the salary and seniority ladder - something that is very well defined for your profession.
thanks for the awesome video! So postgraduate training seems pretty chill in the UK compared to here in Canada, during residency (equivalent of foundation year in the UK), our hours limit is 80 hours and on general surgery there were some weeks I worked up to 95 hours a week (1 in 4 call so 7 shifts a month), and usually it was at least full 2 weekends per month. Pay is about the same as what you're getting haha. Interesting to see how it works in other countries
Yeah compared to the US it sounds fantastic. I've hardly ever worked as LITTLE as 48, I can't believe that's their cap. Also used to do 28 hour call every 4th day but thankfully we have a bigger intern class now so that's gone
The weekly cap is actually 72h but we get time off to bring it down after. for example you have to get 47h off after a run of nights or long days. On my current rota my longer weeks are usually around 62h and short 45h. I work 1/3 weekends and around 50% of my shifts are long/nights (both 12.5h shifts) while the rest are regular (8.5h shifts). That gives me around £2400 take home
Ollie, thanks for doing this video. You always make very informative content. I thought I knew how much doctors made in comparison to AHPs, as an ahp who would like to study medicine at some point I'd like to think I'm at least reasonably knowledgeable on the workings of the NHS and the drs professional journey through training, but I was so wrong and happy to say that. There must be many more people who didn't know this. To be clear I have never thought jr doctors are overpaid or well at all for that matter, but I didn't know it was based on a 48-hour working week, which makes such a huge difference. Most Afc pay is based on a 37.5 hour contract which means a band 5 new grad ahp earns more or the same per hour than a new grad jr doc? This is disgusting, am I working this out correctly? I mean I value my profession and all the ahps wholeheartedly but a new graduate ahp should not be earning more per hour than a new graduate Dr. I can't be the only one who didn't know this 😅. This is appalling. To any ahp reading this I am not suggesting we ahp's should be paid less, I am suggesting we allll should be paid more but drs should be paid more fairly in comparison to us. Ollie do you think it would help things if everyone was under AFC or everyone within the NHS were bought under one structure as opposed to these two separate pay structures? Or do you think there is a better long term solution, other than us all being paid more?
Thanks for your kind and considered comment! Just to clarify to be really sure, we get that base rate for all 48 hours, not the 28808 split across 48 hours - that's how my gross income was 35K ish. The real issue is that AFC doesn't work well for doctors as an F1 would potentially be Band 7, an F2 certainly would. Given how long our training is and the specific needs that doctors have of their contracts, AFC just doesn't work well for us.
It’s also worth noting that all NHS staff also got 2 years worth of backdated pay in September worth 16% of any overtime/on call done in the 2 years preceding. (For those who done regular overtime - at least 3 months out of the 12 months) Regular overtime payments should now be incorporated into your basic salary for annual leave purposes as you’re still entitled to the overtime/on call payments whilst on annual leave
If you ever feel jealous of the consultants with their much bigger pay packets and fewer working hours, if they were junior in the 80's-90's they were commonly doing 1in3 on call rotas, even 1in 2, with 1 in 4 being very rare. That means 80-100 work hours a week, and you were expected to turn up early and leave late. They were paid a pittance per hour for the nights on call.
And now they are earning £100K + per year AND earning another £50K+ in private practice.... Then there is their gold-pated pension, massive holiday entitlement, huge on call payments.... Forgive me if I don't feel too sorry for them.
For anyone from the US watching this, foundational years are what US schools would call ms3 and ms4, which is still part of training which you're paying $50,000 a year to do I don't mean this in a condescending manner, as it came off in retrospect, just as a comparison to those who are going to google right now
I know this is old and pay rises have already been given since but, isn't the total gross earned £38290, it is by my calculation. If I am correct, a FY1 Doctors package seems pretty good, based on a 38k + salary. Also, I stand to be corrected, but am I right in thinking that just over 20%, in this case approx. 5k is paid into your private pension yearly. So your package for the first year was actually more like 43k gross.
Such a great and informative video straight to the point. Quite shocking how much junior doctors get paid taking into account the amount of hours they work.
Hi Ollie, Love your videos. Thank you so much for keeping us posted. What are your thoughts on Doctor’s apprenticeship programs, starting from September 2023?
Very interesting, I think this is about right, at the end of the day your a junior doctor straight out of university that is still supervised until you complete f2 year, you shouldnt go straight on mega bucks while still training as thats were complacency comes in, it basically keeps it real while still being a supervised foundation dr, you can still earn nice weekend overtime shifts when you want to bulk up your pay, and im sure after f2 year your salary will shoot up, it would be interesting to know the pay scale and how much it increases once you complete f2 and become unsupervised as such. Well done for being honest, would also be useful to know how on earth you got to 80k in student loans, breakdown of this would be very interesting, is the loans include course fees or is it purely money been given directly to you over the 5 years in university, interesting, on a random separate note, i do think foundation drs are given far too much patient responsibility in wards that you aren’t specialised in, they seem to be given allot of responsibility on patient care, ward rounds etc when you literally have very little experience or training in the speciality, but i suppose this is down to nhs shortage and trying to make the most of what staffing we have, this is taken from personal experience with family in hospital wards and foundation drs are the face of the wards each day (and consultants are becoming more rare for patient rounds etc) trouble being foundation drs generally cant answer complex questions around patient care for the speciality with your experience being up to 4 months for that speciality, one last thing, would be nice to know percentage of f2s that stay in hospital work or go to gp training, anway good luck and keep,up the good work 👍
"training" is quite long and the salary until then is not that great either. fy1 base pay band is at 29,000, fy2 is a whopping bump to 34,000. Then if you chose to go into training (fastest being GP) you have to do 2 more years at 40,000 and a last year at 50,000. Someone that does 5 years med 1 year intercalated Msc comes out at 24, and doesn't start earning the "big bucks" until 2 years foundation and 3+ years training at 29+. at 5% if ollie doesn't pay student loans until then, that 80,000 would be a bit over 102,000. Most medics don't actually start earning money and are in debt until 28+ years old, especially if you pick any of the longer training specialties. The pot of gold at the end of the tunnel isn't as enticing when you realize that you can't actually have your net worth be positive until just before the 30's and you're not making enough money to save up for a mortgage/house until mid 30's. Surgical pathways where you do 2 years foundation, 3 years core surgical training, and 6+ years in training surgical specialties, often with gaps in between and having to move every 6 months or travel across deaneries means that a fast graduate without doing grad entry like ollie would be 35+ but more commonly 37 by the time they're consultant. All while having significant costs in training, and practically mandatory surgical conferences at 2000 a weekend to build a portfolio to even be considered when applying for core surgical training. By then it's a bit on the upper end of the spectrum in age to even consider having a family or kids when you're able to settle in one place.
While I understand the purpose of this video, it’s shameful to have to do it. We all appreciate and understand the amount of study and commitment a doctor goes through and you deserve the salary you get, actually a lot more.
48 hours? Kind of cushy really. In the US it's 80 hours. And no income tax? Judging from the background in the video, you seem comfortable. I did 2 years in the UK. One as a senior medical student, and one post-graduate year. Honestly the difference in the degree of training and the level of performance required at that level for doctors between the US and the UK is stark, really orders of magnitude in difference. It's interesting that in the UK the training years are referred to "practice". Frankly, I wouldn't call it "practice" until and unless you reach the consultant level, anything less is some level of supervised training. Frankly, the compensation seems very reasonable considering everything including the level of training and ability, the economy in which it is payed, and the socialized healthcare scheme. We have a partly capitalist commercial health insurance system in the US, while in the UK a very obvious class system is institutionally enforced. That's a wash. In the US we also have numerous other systems including the VA, Appalachian Health Service, Indian Health Service, Alaskan Health Service, and more. So we have many systems while the UK has the private and the NHS. Most people have no idea of the differences. What is vulgar is how much athletes and entertainers earn compared to doctors everywhere. People in general value their trivial entertainment more than their health.
Hey doctor. You have no idea how much you helped me in changing my decision to come to uk and work as a doctor. I think i will have better income options here in india considering a weaker medical infrastructure Can you elaborate how much money a full five year resident ship program would provide ? PLEASE! TX
All NHS staff are underpaid. I'm a dietitian. Took me 4yrs to become one. I work full time for 25k before tax. The highest I'll ever earn is 45k and of course by the time I get there 45k won't be worth 45k. Fundamentally all NHS staff should be paid more and treated more fairly. Without all the other healthcare professionals Doctors can't do their job. Personally I'd rather see nurses get increased pay and better treated before any other healthcare professionals.
Why don't people chose to study a different degree then? Their are other professions that pay a lot more than healthcare. The reality is the market delivers a wage that is viable, and maybe people should consider more strongly why they want to get into that particular career or field before doing so? If you're getting into health care because of the money then you're not really fit to be in a position of responsibility, or governing the decisions and outcomes of people's health.
@@Tedmason897 people don't go into healthcare for money. But equally do you really want your healthcare providers to be distracted by financial worries? Doesn't make sense. And people are choosing different. Nurses, doctors and other specialties are leaving and retraining. Less people are entering healthcare. In dietetics there's only ever 1-3 people interviewing for jobs now. 10yrs ago you'd have 20+ for each job. NHS is predicted to lose 8% of its workforce by the end of this year alone.
£28k is really much lower than I expected. Appreciate they are junior / foundational positions but if that is so then the responsibility & weekly working hours ought to be lesser than senior colleagues (for example having junior doctors (JD) working the core hours to alleviate pressure during the busiest periods.
Respect! I am gobsmacked and saddened by the numbers I heard from you given your contribution to this work and invaluable commitment to studying. I truly do not know how to express my disappointment enough, you and other doctors deserve so much more! I am an investment banker and 21 years ago my first salary was 36,000euros…comparing to yours much more worthy £27,000 in 2022! You deserve much more than what I earned what bankers earn… don’t forget that 21 years ago I was in the middle of my economics degree… you and all tge medical providers rock, please be even more assured that your effort and dedication is observed and greatly appreciated by all of us ❤️ I wish I could do something for you guys, I truly do x
around 3500 gbp for insurance!!😮 that's quite lo of money and still u have to wait for around 12 hours for emegency and 2 to 3 weeks for GP. In India i can get emergency treatment as soon as i reach hospital and i can go to any specialist consultant within few hours and gp in few mins. If UK convert into private health sector then people can get way better service for similar national insurance cost. bt I genuinly love ur conte, keep going
It will never happen. The health service is on life support but still trying to revive it. Rather than spend money on training up more doctors, £18 billion were spent on the 2012 Olympics AND in turn got back £5 billion in revenue. Unbelievably stupid thing to do. It would raise serious laughter if it wasn't so tragic.
National insurance is not just for health care it’s also for your state pension, sick pay, unemployment pay if you ever need it, disability payments paternity/maternity benefits,child benefits etc. There’s nothing to stop you paying extra for private health insurance or paying privately to see a doctor if it’s important to you not to wait but private hospitals here don’t have accident and emergency services as far as I know. Private health care is more expensive though because they have to make a profit.
Nishit mehta. Look up the current state of the nhs in the UK media. It looks grim. Long waiting lists for routine operations, long waits in emergency departments, long waits to see a doctor, practically a defunct dental service...go private? Not unless you can afford it... then you'd have US style health service... It's getting worse. There doesn't seem to be any long term planning involved re a booming population, diabetic time bomb, rising mental health problems, building more hospitals, training up more doctors and nurses...just the usual carry on...
Is there any chance that government planning to increase uk doctor's salary anytime soon? I genuinely consider the current pay scale to be criminally underrated!
I don’t get it, what is the payback? Why would anyone with such a high intelligence go into this profession? Is it a passion thing? A prestige thing? I genuinely want to know.
Well it's not usually one reason, it's a combination of many reasons. The primary one being of course to help people, make a positive impact on society. Money and respect is all superficial. At the end of the day you want to do something that gives you meaning in life, a patient's smile I would assume is a big enough reason, passion as well; if someone is interested in care or the human body and the science behind it. Although, the pay is shit at the beginning the job stability is very good, as a doctor you are very unlikely to ever lose your job and the pay is very good towards the end of the career or when you are a consultant, usually early to mid 30's by then the working hours are also lower and you can work on part time contracts. If money is what you're truly after private practice makes double or triple more and all licensed doctors can do that. Maybe respect or prestige as well. It's still a very stressful career and I really hope the NHS increases their pay.
Thank you for the video. It really gives prespective. Can you please do a video detailing the living expenses for a junior doctor in an average city in the UK ?
Chaos. Sky high rent, low grade accommodation, sky high transport fares and set to rise even further, rocketing food and energy prices. Thinking of owning a car ? Think again. New charges under the category of going green being introduced, £12 per day for most cars and other vehicles. Sky high petrol costs. Complete nightmare, might as well pay to work??? Avoid. Seek a cheaper country?
like young solicitor's new Doctors do not get paid well, but when they progress up the ladder they are paid obscenely well for what they do, for senior Doctors that's very little. GP`s on the other hand work very short hours and are paid extremely well and that's not including being retained on payment by big pharm or by moonlighting, Gps say that they are dealing with life or death situations but so are police and firemen working 7 day 24/7 shifts and they do net get anywhere near a Gps pay.
Most trainees want to be LTFT now since COVID-19 caused a massive shift in attitudes to work/life balance. This does mean if you want to meet your cost of living, even things like having children or home ownership will be coming under consideration.
Can you give examples of the exams fees you have to pay and how much they are over a year? I think that you can just deduct them off of your salary too if you have to pay for them so they should count as a deduction.
Example, MRCS Part A (surgical entry exam) approx £550 per attempt. You can sit up to 3X per year - but pass mark is high and usually takes several attempts.
Considering a study showed Junior doctors have a higher rate of successful diagnosis of rare disease than well established GP's, it is almost criminal you get paid so little. Especially when the starting salary in my field in IT is 50k for less painful hours. You then break it down to an hourly rate of £13 something. That is even worse. All that uni debt. A friend of mine owns a factory packing sauces for super market own brands and he pays his factory floor staff £14 an hour.
I am a rough equivalent of an FY1 in India. I just completed a 50 hour continuous duty. That is start work Friday morning and shift ends Sunday at noon😂.(luckily this happens once a month). Other weeks we have atleast one 36hr shift. Apart from regular 8hr days. And we get paid roughly 220 pounds a month. (Not taking cost of living into consideration; as per current exchange rates)
Your speciality may or may not allow night and weekend calls to effect your salary,you assisting in actual life saving surgery,your compulsory training continues along side your 48plus hour week,First year after dedutions 27k ,35k before much responsible for good but still low compared to senior colleagues,yours will increase yearly and locum work will become available when exams are passed,much expected for busy tired you ,These early years need up grading in salary but less so later on the graduation seems stilted to year six and onward your qualifications allowing more lucrative placements and jobs,doctors being one of the few professions exceding their pension pot ceilings and having to retire early as have several admittedly GPs known to me finishing mid 50s.
I'd be interested to know what expenses Junior Doctors need to cover out of that salary - e.g. average costs for parking, who pays for scrubs, do you have to pay out for any CPD etc?
I can answer this one. Parking in England is set by the NHS Hospital, and so rates vary a lot. I pay £20/month but there is no guarantee of any space when you arrive. Scrubs are free but they are worn+++ and often don't have your size. I therefore bought my own as I know they fit. You have to pay out for all post graduate exams. To become a Consultant, there are around 4 or 5 - you pay per attempt and it's generally £300-£500 but some exams are £800-£1000. You have to pay (after the first two years) for your postgraduate portfolio. I have to pay my Royal College for mandatory portfolio access, which is £400/year. The GMC also charge about £200/year for the first 5 years and then doubled. I also have to pay indemnity insurance but only £50/year. I also pay for the BMA (our Union) which is £19/month.
i can add more to that gmc 460 gdc 780 mddus 380 portfolio 285 rcpsgla 300 rcsed ~200 bma 37/month specialty membership 100 current exams 2000. on call travelling between hospital easy 70 -200miles per night on top of normal travel. courses average 1000 per year......
Most of the overwork has been caused by pastprime ministers who cut university places for medicine. There is a huge backlog of places for this profession, with loads of university places which have accepted students with exceptional grades, but these students are having to wait up to 2 years to start their training, I wonder how many in that time choose to emigrate, so that we loose those we so desperately need.
Our pay sucks comparitively mate. Did the maths previously and to have the same spending power as we had in 2010, on 27780 (spinal 2), I'd nearly be on 40k to have the same buying power as back then. I work as a biomed scientist in nhs lab. Band 5. Did 4 years of uni, including 1 year of borderline indentured servitude, 9 to 5, 5 days a week, for 1 year. Biomed no longer gets grants or bursary for the placement year, had to work in dominos after normal hours and weekend to get by. It was a full-time job with no pay, still had to pay 50% tuition fee on it too. Disgusting its allowed today, wholeheartedly believe any placements like that should be at least 50% of full band 5 pay and any one that has prev done them should be compensated. Ended up on antidepressants for years resulting from it, felt unable to help or contribute to my family as my time was gone and couldn't generate income even if i wanted to. Absolute shame. What's more the placement is pointless as NHS now hires those that haven't done placement, pays them in full until they get portfolio required for full band 5 biomed duties. I went into work with people getting paid to do what i did for free. Hard time getting over it.
Can I ask if you think that you make enough to have a comfortable living? Or do you have to worry a lot about budgeting especially with bills going up?? I’m just going into 5th year and deciding where to apply for foundation jobs etc.
I am fine, basically due to living in a cheaper city and have a contract that covers my bills - appreciate that this is extremely lucky and I'd be nervous about bills otherwise
A SE in FAANG is not for everybody though (and they work more than 48h I guess, although in less stressful situations). I think the main difference is that the private sector allows for a broader range of salaries, here everybody is paid the same which is very tough. Also, the pay illustrated here is not bad for a first year, but in SE (which is my field btw) if you are good the pay can rise very fast. Here it doesn't say about how fast the salary rises, but I expect not fast at all and mostly the same for good and not-so-good doctors.
Awful salary considering your responsibility. Can easily walk into a grad. scheme after a 3-year degree on a 38 hour contract and earn 30+k. Fingers crossed pay is restored!
However if we do strike, we ALL needs to strike at the same time. It’s no use Drs striking one day, nurses the next week....what about Drs, RNs Midwives, All other staff cleaners, radiographers, etc. All on one day all in the same timeframe. Emergencies, childbirth , etc are exempt. All we need to do is sit in the office. Or stand in the corridor. Wait until the Trust cave in, get them to sign the contract with the Unions regarding increased pay and hours of work ....all organised before the strike begins. Bu I doubt it will happen. Unions are hand in glove with the NHS Trust managers.
This is insanely underpaid given the years and years of work that you have to put into becoming a doctor and the actual difficulty of the job to be paid this little. You can literally work as a waiter and gain the same or more at some places.
@@OllieBurtonMed and he will continue to do so unless he changes he's job - you on the other hand as other have pointed out have a well paid career ahead of you.
@@bobbuilder6669 still a third lower in real terms than 2008, and everyone wonders why increasing numbers of our colleagues are heading off to Australia.
Entry level pay. 26-45k How long does it take to move up to the higher bands registrar consultant professor etc? Which puts you in the 50-100k plus pay brackets. How much experience (hours years surgeries births etc ) and proof of ability is needed? How does pay progression work?
To become a registrar is typically at ST3 (so F1, F2, CT1, CT2, then ST3) so 5th year postgraduate assuming you progress at maximum pace, which is still highly competitive and it usually takes longer. Consultant is then around 10 years postgraduate for most specialties, but again competitive to get the posts. Professor is a more academic role and again would be extremely competitive requiring an extensive research career which the vast majority do not do.
So £35k, FY2 basic is £34,012 so with the bumps possible a gross income of £42k and the potential increases each year will soon add up as any doctor climbs the pay scales, no disrespect but all jobs like nurse, teacher, police etc have a low start point relatively but increase steadily and with additional responsibilities gain more pay points, they also generally have more holiday and better pension schemes that are backed by the government than those working in the private sector.
In every trade you have to go through a learning earning phase. So I met a really nice guy and his wife while doing some sailing. I have a small sailing boat, cost me about the same as a cheap car 17k it's 50 years old. I love it. There's a tap on the side of the boat, I'm doing repairs, I was invited over to this guys posh boat for pre-dinner drinks. Long story short he's a doctor, we talked till 2 am (the wine & ouzo helped) I said I thought 100k was too much for a GP, I said it's so much three fifths of the GPs at my surgery choose to work part time. I commented that it makes for a poor service because they're not getting the experience they need nor is there continuity of care. He said. "Oh your way out" I retired 2 years ago on 230k I received a 630k tax free lump sum, I bought the boat with it. I live in a 12 bedroom 5 bathroom house in it's own grounds, it's worth 2.5 million. He wasn't bragging, it was irony . He said you wouldn't turn it down! He was right. Don't get me wrong he and his missus came from a working class background, he worked full time in his own practice in a large village, I really like them, no heirs and graces just honest people (seen them since) always have a chat & a drink. But that kind of money is obscene, playboy money, only in the UK & USA 17,600 per month, it's not right, that's the kind of money an entrepreneur earns, probably employing a good number of people.
Hey ollie, that was a great piece of information.. thank you. Just wanted to know how much one can save every month (on an average) with a decent standard of living as a FY2 doctor?
So many factors involved in your question. It would depend on where you live and if you share with family, friends, a partner or living alone. Living alone in London and your going to have nothing every month and living with a partner in Manchester and you can live very comfortably.
Really informative. If you go on strike I'll dig into my pocket for you, hopefully you'll stop the running down of the NHS (100,000 staff shortages, 25,000 bed shortages, hours waiting by ambulance/paramedics to handover patients, a cap on the number of new doctors to be trained etc). I for one feel that if you strike you will win, the frustration that people feel at the problems outlined above will be outweighed by the good will that doctors have. The slurs that the government will sling at you if you do strike will be vast, see RMT, £40,000 for drivers, little realising that drivers do no join the RMT. I wish you and your fellow doctors success. PS I'd love to see how GPs are funded?
@@davidwebb2318 please can you cite where you gained this information. I have often wondered why the doctors at my surgery work part time. My local surgery is funded in part like a small business, in agreement with the NHS. I've since found out my surgery has a turnover of less than £5 million pounds per year. The two partners who own this surgery employ a lot of doctors on a part time basis and whole lot more staff i.e. nurses, pharmacists, admin and IT staff. A far cry from the altruistic fiction that I used to believe
Junior doctors are not overpaid, but it must be recognised that it is a training position and junior doctors are significantly better rewarded than other health disciplines under training. Also, the UK taxpayer invests significant funds into their training. However, later in their careers, I believe the salary and pensions of medics is way over the top. They are also allowed to engage in private practice alongside nhs work - not available to other health professionals.
I'm amazed at how such a critical and specialist job (imo) is so poorly paid. However, I think its also worth everyone understanding that many doctors start at your level (which in essence is close to the bottom of the ladder in most businesses), and then strive to aim for private, consultative, specialist roles that can earn hundreds of thousands of pounds annually. This is where the real angst stems from in that you are driven towards the private medical world (and therefore the general public loses the benefit of your skills) in order to earn a more realistic wage. Capitalism works against us in this respect because I would far rather pay for skilled people such as yourself to stay in your public role whilst earning a real-world salary. However, I also believe that the NHS is fundamentally being ran incorrectly and is basically a cash register for the large pharma companies and hospital development funds. I'm not sure what the answers are, but the current direction only has one outcome to the deficit of all 'normal' people; privatisation. You cant and shouldn't be allowed to provide a healthcare service on the basis of shareholder profitability.
Meanwhile, train drivers in the UK earn an average of £48000 a year and are on strike over pay and conditions. Everyone in the NHS should be getting paid those kind of salaries and train drivers on £28000. What's happening in this country? Thankyou for everything you do 🙏
Trainee train drivers like trainee Dr's start on lower pay and progress. Train drivers will only ever earn maybe £60k after gaining enough experience to be a driver instructor / examiner. Whereas Dr's after equivalent experience will earn significantly higher salaries. Drivers have had T's and C's gutted with yet more changes in the pipeline while public money continues to be funnelled into private hands. It generally helps if you look beyond the Tory owned press, if you're a Tory then fair enough, and consider the agendas being sold to you.
Good lord……. Overworked and underpaid…… I knew it was bad but didn’t think it was this bad!! 👏🏻👏🏻 for your honesty like how do you live on that…. Rent, food and god forbid a social life…..???
Those numbers are low considering your debt, years of training hours of working in a week, irregular hours. Thanks for putting yourself through this and being there for us.
Apparently it makes 0 financial sense to become a doctor outside us.
Heavily subsidised by the taxpayer, and long term income poteinal as a doctor is huge. Fresh out of uni or with a few years experience is not representative. Just go look at your local GP surgery, they publish thier salaries and they get paid very very well for limited hours.
@@jrr3613 I'm sorry but all the evidence suggests that GP's get paid very very well, and their average hours for the salaries they receive is very good.
I'm not suggesting it's easy being a GP, but to suggest that GP's with reasonable experience aren't well paid is ridiculous.
Infact there is a little bit if crisis in general practise, you have an over abundance of GP's working part-time.
At my local practice average salary pre tax is £60,000 and 0 GP's work full time, all 6 work part-time.
@@jrr3613 It was reported recently that a massive number of GPs only work 27 hours a week. Stop moaning, GPs make plenty enough for their level of expertise.
@@Tedmason897 GPs seem very rich because a lot of them own their small practices rather than working on salary
No messing around or click bait, just solid information and truth 👏👏👏
Thanks for speaking on this important topic. If I may, a missed opportunity is to show GBP/hour alongside your salary which comes at a staggering 11.8GBP/h. This puts things into perspective when people think 2200 GBP/month is not such a bad salary to have because they always "forget" doctors work almost 10h more per week than the average employee.
I knew junior doctors were underpaid but I didn't realise it was by this much. I'm a nurse and at our hospital, our junior doctors are absolutely amazing. They are so knowledgeable, caring and helpful. This pay is an absolute disgrace considering what they do
imagine this, if we in the UK payed limited tax our economy would be working (long as government isn't trying to collapse it)
and people would have more freedom to pay for insurance and get Decent health care instead of accessible garbage free healthcare that makes most of it's money off illness and death.
2 ways you look at it, Pay to stay healthy or pay when you get sick.
Do people think doctors are overpaid in the UK? I consider doctors and nurses to be extremely underpaid for their services
By and large in my experience yes - there was a very recent YouGov poll that showed just over half of voters think doctors are underpaid - but more than half also were against doctors striking to improve their pay, which really says it all
@@OllieBurtonMed I suppose that's not that surprising. The intelligence of the British group mob has never been particularly high. Such a shame so many would try and destroy something so beautiful as the NHS. Still such is life. I'll always cast my vote to support the NHS and further pay for staff and hopefully enough people will likewise follow.
Trouble is people just Google doctor salary and then see an average of 70-100k which is a consultant salary for someone who has years of experience. It's clear people don't understand the junior doctors who have unbelievable pressure and seem to think they are paid amazing.
Nurses odps ots etc etc we are all underpaid significantly
@@hollydavies4041 100% agree - all NHS staff are underpaid, it's a crying shame and not good enough. Get unionised and organised.
you’re doing a lot for the medic community and for raising awareness to the public. keep it up, we appreciate your voice💪
A really honest, instructive and no BS perspective illustrated by personal experience. Excellent work, keep it up- you've gained another subscriber.
As a medical student who covered a medical elective I would just like to say thank you for your honest representation of the financial aspect of being a doctor in the UK. Many wish to come forward but don’t or can’t. I believe it is a much needed topic which needs to be spoken about and the general public being made aware of.
When you consider the pressures and the responsibilities that junior doctors very quickly have to manage early on in their career compared to other professions, this is a very informative video.
Currently studying medicine in Ireland and this video came up in my recommended - really appreciate your honesty and how clearly you described each post! I've subscribed 😊
Thanx Dr. Ollie for bringing out such an honest video. Many doctors are hesitant to do it. ✅
If you take it as an average of 48 hours per week (I imagine a lot of the time its more than that) then the take home pay is £10.91 an hour. Considering the pressure and responsibility it's pretty awful.
Exactly the same for dietitians and other healthcare professionals. We'd all earn more per hour working for a supermarket with less responsibility. For doctors however they do eventually end up with very good salaries in the end. Other healthcare professionals don't.
Playing devil's advocate here but at least in a hospital you get paid for every hour you do. Most jobs will expect overtime and you will never get paid for it. Obviously this isn't great if you have a family to support but if your single and can spend a few years dedicating your life to your profession, you can make some nice extra money and get a lot more experience quicker, which will get you ahead.
@@kylekeenan3485 you absolutely do not get paid for every hour you do. Unfortunately there is a lot of expected unpaid overtime, and sometimes you don’t even get paid for doing extra shifts. It’s absolute BS and I’m frustrated to no end by my colleagues who do extra shifts knowing they may not get paid because then nobody does anything about it.
@@kylekeenan3485 this did make me lol slightly at the idea that doctors get paid for the hours they work. That should happen, in hospitals there is technically someone to handover jobs to but in reality they cannot pick up routine tasks, they are for emergency medical cover. There were plenty of times I'd start work at 7.30am and leave at after 7 while being paid 8-5. Not every junior doctor is a single 23 year old, many have children and lives. And those who don't shouldn't be expected to do unpaid labour. Junior doctor training always necessitates working more than the assigned hours, even if the job itself doesn't overrun... there are portfolios that need to be maintained, exams to study for (which you also have to pay for, sometimes over £1000 a time), research to do etc
You think that other graduates don't work plenty of hours to get their career established? Building a career that will earn you £200-250K per year in 2035 will take some hard work and sacrifice. Junior doctors need to get used to this reality, this video makes them sound like entitled snowflakes.
That is provided your trust pays you the full amount of your salary on time.
I had heard some of our colleagues are only getting part of their pay or even not get paid at all by the NHS.
Excellent video - concise, clear and timely. I have reason to be so grateful to doctors and nurses (and all ancillary staff) - together you saved my life.
I am intersted to know your thoughts on the increase in salary for junior doctors next year after the expriation of the 2016/17 contract. I know there is word of 25-30%, which is hopeful, but as you pointed out would bring us near to 2008 levels of pay. It will have to be at least a 9%+ increase given that fact that we were excludded from the rises in pay in the last couple of years for NHS staff and consultants.
Very difficult to say, but where do you think the figure will fall?, as I know you know a lot more than any junior doctor about this topic.
I have major Complaint about NHS Consultant and they seem oblivious to NICE Guidelines
still, student loan interest is rising to 9% and 25-30% doesn’t sound enough to me.
Being a Dr is the UK is hard, especially the beginning as lots is dumped on their plates They deserve much more. Their rota is crazy as well. I don't think they are well looked after. Often, as a ward clerk, I end up feeding them tea and biscuits ( did this for 10 yrs) while they work. Now I'm a nurse and still hold the belief Drs are really under appreciated. I wonder why their rotas are so difficult and their mental health is not considered by their manager.
Wow. This was really fascinating. Hooked the entire time. Respect your honesty and transparency!
This is the first completely honest explanation of a Junior Doctor's pay by a Junior Doctor I have come across. If only more Junior Doctors were honest about their pay in this way, especially within the context of the BMA's campaign for 'pay restoration'. Without this level of scrupulous honesty, no one has any clear idea of where JD pay is currently vs where the BMA claims it ought to be. Credit where credit is due.
Huge respect to people taking on this sort of responsibility for this sort of money this is basically the same money I take home but I only do 33 hours a week 3 on 4 off, and I don't think it's enough for comfortable living.
Junior doctors are great, when I was in hospital for a large time frame, having juniors come in to my room to learn about the surgery I had and basically being a living dummy for practical training was the funniest shit, made my time there so much brighter.
Sir you are a Hero by default and all of you will always have my unconditional support.
As a doctor from a developing country, who was looking to move to the UK to continue my medical journey, the reality has saddened me.
Yes the pay is significantly, more than my home country, but you have to add things like rent, food and general cost of living....
So healthcare workers are working in miserable pay anywhere around the world, except the USA it seems...
Fully trained docs and Consultants are on significantly higher pay
@@thomasreilly4850 Fully trained specialist in 13-14 years...that is if your ship sails smooth and you have no hurdles in between....
Age wise you will be in your late thirties, with various mouths to feed in your family and further increase in expenses relating to children.
If you are single or if you dont plan to have children by this age, things are well and good financially.
But it is already a lonely world for healthcare practisioners and not having someone to talk to is the very least thing that you would want.....
This is where the stereotypical quote of money cannot buy hapiness comes.....but you need to sustain yourself until you are alive.....Everyday is a grind.....
General practice offers more money too.
Pay is a disgrace. I did maths degree and masters in Finance and was making 6 figures in Finance sector bt 25. Granted I was doing 60 hours a week which is common in city. Also relatives in medicine making $250k plus for similar roles in US
what did you do in the finance sector?
@@ok-jw8px quant Finance at a quant hedge fund
Excellent honest video
48 hour week is short in my industry
37.5 hour week, almost unheard of
55 hour is pretty much minimum and 60 is regular
Do Doctors get paid enough ? No
Neither do nurses, care staff, domestics and almost everyone else who frontlines on NHS .
I really feel for you and hope that the new Prime Minister does something about your pay. Its understandable why many are leaving the NHS or not even going into it to be a doctor. Please keep at it we need you.
I have a friend of a friend who makes more as their basic pay for working nights in asda (fancy people's grocery shop) I used to think all those junior doctors striking every other month were whining but good grief my guy this is messed up
just like to say, i appreciate your service to the NHS and thank you.
Consulting is where it’s at, I’ve seen people go to private practices as consultants and make the big money people think all doctors are making.
£80k of student loans!
I graduated from a Computer and Information Systems University course in 2000 with £0 student loans. Back then, University was free and I was living with my parents, 2 miles from the University. My salary was higher than yours (I had a very good salary, a large portion of which was a significant amount of overtime).
Still have to bear in mind the median UK salary is 36kish. If you are underpaid, and I am not saying you aren't, so is everyone. As important doctors are you still have to pay you dues to climb the salary and seniority ladder - something that is very well defined for your profession.
thanks for the awesome video! So postgraduate training seems pretty chill in the UK compared to here in Canada, during residency (equivalent of foundation year in the UK), our hours limit is 80 hours and on general surgery there were some weeks I worked up to 95 hours a week (1 in 4 call so 7 shifts a month), and usually it was at least full 2 weekends per month. Pay is about the same as what you're getting haha. Interesting to see how it works in other countries
Yeah compared to the US it sounds fantastic. I've hardly ever worked as LITTLE as 48, I can't believe that's their cap. Also used to do 28 hour call every 4th day but thankfully we have a bigger intern class now so that's gone
@@donnaanselmo7626 ,it was introduced for patient safety more than out of consideration for the doctors work life balance.
The weekly cap is actually 72h but we get time off to bring it down after. for example you have to get 47h off after a run of nights or long days. On my current rota my longer weeks are usually around 62h and short 45h. I work 1/3 weekends and around 50% of my shifts are long/nights (both 12.5h shifts) while the rest are regular (8.5h shifts).
That gives me around £2400 take home
Ollie, thanks for doing this video. You always make very informative content. I thought I knew how much doctors made in comparison to AHPs, as an ahp who would like to study medicine at some point I'd like to think I'm at least reasonably knowledgeable on the workings of the NHS and the drs professional journey through training, but I was so wrong and happy to say that. There must be many more people who didn't know this. To be clear I have never thought jr doctors are overpaid or well at all for that matter, but I didn't know it was based on a 48-hour working week, which makes such a huge difference. Most Afc pay is based on a 37.5 hour contract which means a band 5 new grad ahp earns more or the same per hour than a new grad jr doc? This is disgusting, am I working this out correctly? I mean I value my profession and all the ahps wholeheartedly but a new graduate ahp should not be earning more per hour than a new graduate Dr. I can't be the only one who didn't know this 😅. This is appalling. To any ahp reading this I am not suggesting we ahp's should be paid less, I am suggesting we allll should be paid more but drs should be paid more fairly in comparison to us. Ollie do you think it would help things if everyone was under AFC or everyone within the NHS were bought under one structure as opposed to these two separate pay structures? Or do you think there is a better long term solution, other than us all being paid more?
Thanks for your kind and considered comment! Just to clarify to be really sure, we get that base rate for all 48 hours, not the 28808 split across 48 hours - that's how my gross income was 35K ish.
The real issue is that AFC doesn't work well for doctors as an F1 would potentially be Band 7, an F2 certainly would. Given how long our training is and the specific needs that doctors have of their contracts, AFC just doesn't work well for us.
It’s also worth noting that all NHS staff also got 2 years worth of backdated pay in September worth 16% of any overtime/on call done in the 2 years preceding. (For those who done regular overtime - at least 3 months out of the 12 months)
Regular overtime payments should now be incorporated into your basic salary for annual leave purposes as you’re still entitled to the overtime/on call payments whilst on annual leave
If you ever feel jealous of the consultants with their much bigger pay packets and fewer working hours, if they were junior in the 80's-90's they were commonly doing 1in3 on call rotas, even 1in 2, with 1 in 4 being very rare. That means 80-100 work hours a week, and you were expected to turn up early and leave late. They were paid a pittance per hour for the nights on call.
And now they are earning £100K + per year AND earning another £50K+ in private practice.... Then there is their gold-pated pension, massive holiday entitlement, huge on call payments.... Forgive me if I don't feel too sorry for them.
For anyone from the US watching this, foundational years are what US schools would call ms3 and ms4, which is still part of training which you're paying $50,000 a year to do
I don't mean this in a condescending manner, as it came off in retrospect, just as a comparison to those who are going to google right now
I know this is old and pay rises have already been given since but, isn't the total gross earned £38290, it is by my calculation. If I am correct, a FY1 Doctors package seems pretty good, based on a 38k + salary. Also, I stand to be corrected, but am I right in thinking that just over 20%, in this case approx. 5k is paid into your private pension yearly. So your package for the first year was actually more like 43k gross.
So much respect and admiration for you!
Such a great and informative video straight to the point.
Quite shocking how much junior doctors get paid taking into account the amount of hours they work.
Thanks for this. Clear, transparent and accurate.
Hi Ollie, Love your videos. Thank you so much for keeping us posted. What are your thoughts on Doctor’s apprenticeship programs, starting from September 2023?
Deeply suspicious of them, need to make a video!
Looking forward to watching it. Thank you 🙏 xx
Thanks for this video!
Very interesting, I think this is about right, at the end of the day your a junior doctor straight out of university that is still supervised until you complete f2 year, you shouldnt go straight on mega bucks while still training as thats were complacency comes in, it basically keeps it real while still being a supervised foundation dr, you can still earn nice weekend overtime shifts when you want to bulk up your pay, and im sure after f2 year your salary will shoot up, it would be interesting to know the pay scale and how much it increases once you complete f2 and become unsupervised as such. Well done for being honest, would also be useful to know how on earth you got to 80k in student loans, breakdown of this would be very interesting, is the loans include course fees or is it purely money been given directly to you over the 5 years in university, interesting, on a random separate note, i do think foundation drs are given far too much patient responsibility in wards that you aren’t specialised in, they seem to be given allot of responsibility on patient care, ward rounds etc when you literally have very little experience or training in the speciality, but i suppose this is down to nhs shortage and trying to make the most of what staffing we have, this is taken from personal experience with family in hospital wards and foundation drs are the face of the wards each day (and consultants are becoming more rare for patient rounds etc) trouble being foundation drs generally cant answer complex questions around patient care for the speciality with your experience being up to 4 months for that speciality, one last thing, would be nice to know percentage of f2s that stay in hospital work or go to gp training, anway good luck and keep,up the good work 👍
For the loans, that's a 3 year undergrad plus a 4 year accelerated medical degree - with pretty brutal interest rates.
"training" is quite long and the salary until then is not that great either. fy1 base pay band is at 29,000, fy2 is a whopping bump to 34,000. Then if you chose to go into training (fastest being GP) you have to do 2 more years at 40,000 and a last year at 50,000. Someone that does 5 years med 1 year intercalated Msc comes out at 24, and doesn't start earning the "big bucks" until 2 years foundation and 3+ years training at 29+. at 5% if ollie doesn't pay student loans until then, that 80,000 would be a bit over 102,000. Most medics don't actually start earning money and are in debt until 28+ years old, especially if you pick any of the longer training specialties. The pot of gold at the end of the tunnel isn't as enticing when you realize that you can't actually have your net worth be positive until just before the 30's and you're not making enough money to save up for a mortgage/house until mid 30's.
Surgical pathways where you do 2 years foundation, 3 years core surgical training, and 6+ years in training surgical specialties, often with gaps in between and having to move every 6 months or travel across deaneries means that a fast graduate without doing grad entry like ollie would be 35+ but more commonly 37 by the time they're consultant. All while having significant costs in training, and practically mandatory surgical conferences at 2000 a weekend to build a portfolio to even be considered when applying for core surgical training. By then it's a bit on the upper end of the spectrum in age to even consider having a family or kids when you're able to settle in one place.
While I understand the purpose of this video, it’s shameful to have to do it. We all appreciate and understand the amount of study and commitment a doctor goes through and you deserve the salary you get, actually a lot more.
48 hours? Kind of cushy really. In the US it's 80 hours. And no income tax? Judging from the background in the video, you seem comfortable. I did 2 years in the UK. One as a senior medical student, and one post-graduate year. Honestly the difference in the degree of training and the level of performance required at that level for doctors between the US and the UK is stark, really orders of magnitude in difference. It's interesting that in the UK the training years are referred to "practice". Frankly, I wouldn't call it "practice" until and unless you reach the consultant level, anything less is some level of supervised training. Frankly, the compensation seems very reasonable considering everything including the level of training and ability, the economy in which it is payed, and the socialized healthcare scheme. We have a partly capitalist commercial health insurance system in the US, while in the UK a very obvious class system is institutionally enforced. That's a wash. In the US we also have numerous other systems including the VA, Appalachian Health Service, Indian Health Service, Alaskan Health Service, and more. So we have many systems while the UK has the private and the NHS. Most people have no idea of the differences. What is vulgar is how much athletes and entertainers earn compared to doctors everywhere. People in general value their trivial entertainment more than their health.
Football players are overpaid
Hey doctor. You have no idea how much you helped me in changing my decision to come to uk and work as a doctor. I think i will have better income options here in india considering a weaker medical infrastructure
Can you elaborate how much money a full five year resident ship program would provide ? PLEASE!
TX
All NHS staff are underpaid. I'm a dietitian. Took me 4yrs to become one. I work full time for 25k before tax. The highest I'll ever earn is 45k and of course by the time I get there 45k won't be worth 45k.
Fundamentally all NHS staff should be paid more and treated more fairly. Without all the other healthcare professionals Doctors can't do their job.
Personally I'd rather see nurses get increased pay and better treated before any other healthcare professionals.
Why don't people chose to study a different degree then? Their are other professions that pay a lot more than healthcare.
The reality is the market delivers a wage that is viable, and maybe people should consider more strongly why they want to get into that particular career or field before doing so?
If you're getting into health care because of the money then you're not really fit to be in a position of responsibility, or governing the decisions and outcomes of people's health.
@@Tedmason897 people don't go into healthcare for money. But equally do you really want your healthcare providers to be distracted by financial worries? Doesn't make sense. And people are choosing different. Nurses, doctors and other specialties are leaving and retraining. Less people are entering healthcare. In dietetics there's only ever 1-3 people interviewing for jobs now. 10yrs ago you'd have 20+ for each job. NHS is predicted to lose 8% of its workforce by the end of this year alone.
Love you olly Burton so open and transparent
£28k is really much lower than I expected. Appreciate they are junior / foundational positions but if that is so then the responsibility & weekly working hours ought to be lesser than senior colleagues (for example having junior doctors (JD) working the core hours to alleviate pressure during the busiest periods.
Yes, they are extremely underpaid
Respect! I am gobsmacked and saddened by the numbers I heard from you given your contribution to this work and invaluable commitment to studying. I truly do not know how to express my disappointment enough, you and other doctors deserve so much more! I am an investment banker and 21 years ago my first salary was 36,000euros…comparing to yours much more worthy £27,000 in 2022! You deserve much more than what I earned what bankers earn… don’t forget that 21 years ago I was in the middle of my economics degree… you and all tge medical providers rock, please be even more assured that your effort and dedication is observed and greatly appreciated by all of us ❤️ I wish I could do something for you guys, I truly do x
around 3500 gbp for insurance!!😮 that's quite lo of money and still u have to wait for around 12 hours for emegency and 2 to 3 weeks for GP.
In India i can get emergency treatment as soon as i reach hospital and i can go to any specialist consultant within few hours and gp in few mins.
If UK convert into private health sector then people can get way better service for similar national insurance cost.
bt I genuinly love ur conte, keep going
true
It will never happen. The health service is on life support but still trying to revive it. Rather than spend money on training up more doctors, £18 billion were spent on the 2012 Olympics AND in turn got back £5 billion in revenue. Unbelievably stupid thing to do. It would raise serious laughter if it wasn't so tragic.
National insurance is not just for health care it’s also for your state pension, sick pay, unemployment pay if you ever need it, disability payments paternity/maternity benefits,child benefits etc. There’s nothing to stop you paying extra for private health insurance or paying privately to see a doctor if it’s important to you not to wait but private hospitals here don’t have accident and emergency services as far as I know. Private health care is more expensive though because they have to make a profit.
Nishit mehta. Look up the current state of the nhs in the UK media. It looks grim. Long waiting lists for routine operations, long waits in emergency departments, long waits to see a doctor, practically a defunct dental service...go private? Not unless you can afford it... then you'd have US style health service...
It's getting worse. There doesn't seem to be any long term planning involved re a booming population, diabetic time bomb, rising mental health problems, building more hospitals, training up more doctors and nurses...just the usual carry on...
Is there any chance that government planning to increase uk doctor's salary anytime soon? I genuinely consider the current pay scale to be criminally underrated!
No chance. Doctors will have to strike if they want a pay increase.
in some countries in the EU you can start residency directly. have you ever thought about starting elsewhere?
You’re amazing. Thank you for being you.
I don’t get it, what is the payback? Why would anyone with such a high intelligence go into this profession? Is it a passion thing? A prestige thing? I genuinely want to know.
Well it's not usually one reason, it's a combination of many reasons. The primary one being of course to help people, make a positive impact on society. Money and respect is all superficial. At the end of the day you want to do something that gives you meaning in life, a patient's smile I would assume is a big enough reason, passion as well; if someone is interested in care or the human body and the science behind it. Although, the pay is shit at the beginning the job stability is very good, as a doctor you are very unlikely to ever lose your job and the pay is very good towards the end of the career or when you are a consultant, usually early to mid 30's by then the working hours are also lower and you can work on part time contracts. If money is what you're truly after private practice makes double or triple more and all licensed doctors can do that. Maybe respect or prestige as well. It's still a very stressful career and I really hope the NHS increases their pay.
Holly cow I’m on Band 2 HCA and i do around 50h a week and a lot of nights and I earn a the same as him
both are underpaid
Thanks for your hard work!
Thank you for the video. It really gives prespective. Can you please do a video detailing the living expenses for a junior doctor in an average city in the UK ?
Chaos. Sky high rent, low grade accommodation, sky high transport fares and set to rise even further, rocketing food and energy prices. Thinking of owning a car ? Think again. New charges under the category of going green being introduced, £12 per day for most cars and other vehicles. Sky high petrol costs. Complete nightmare, might as well pay to work??? Avoid. Seek a cheaper country?
like young solicitor's new Doctors do not get paid well, but when they progress up the ladder they are paid obscenely well for what they do, for senior Doctors that's very little. GP`s on the other hand work very short hours and are paid extremely well and that's not including being retained on payment by big pharm or by moonlighting, Gps say that they are dealing with life or death situations but so are police and firemen working 7 day 24/7 shifts and they do net get anywhere near a Gps pay.
Most trainees want to be LTFT now since COVID-19 caused a massive shift in attitudes to work/life balance.
This does mean if you want to meet your cost of living, even things like having children or home ownership will be coming under consideration.
Can you give examples of the exams fees you have to pay and how much they are over a year? I think that you can just deduct them off of your salary too if you have to pay for them so they should count as a deduction.
Example, MRCS Part A (surgical entry exam) approx £550 per attempt. You can sit up to 3X per year - but pass mark is high and usually takes several attempts.
Considering a study showed Junior doctors have a higher rate of successful diagnosis of rare disease than well established GP's, it is almost criminal you get paid so little. Especially when the starting salary in my field in IT is 50k for less painful hours.
You then break it down to an hourly rate of £13 something. That is even worse. All that uni debt. A friend of mine owns a factory packing sauces for super market own brands and he pays his factory floor staff £14 an hour.
I am a rough equivalent of an FY1 in India.
I just completed a 50 hour continuous duty. That is start work Friday morning and shift ends Sunday at noon😂.(luckily this happens once a month).
Other weeks we have atleast one 36hr shift. Apart from regular 8hr days.
And we get paid roughly 220 pounds a month. (Not taking cost of living into consideration; as per current exchange rates)
What’s the general living cost there as I know it will be considerably less but your wage for the working hours sounds criminal 💀
sir make a video on X ray technician and CT scan technicain job description
Your speciality may or may not allow night and weekend calls to effect your salary,you assisting in actual life saving surgery,your compulsory training continues along side your 48plus hour week,First year after dedutions 27k ,35k before much responsible for good but still low compared to senior colleagues,yours will increase yearly and locum work will become available when exams are passed,much expected for busy tired you ,These early years need up grading in salary but less so later on the graduation seems stilted to year six and onward your qualifications allowing more lucrative placements and jobs,doctors being one of the few professions exceding their pension pot ceilings and having to retire early as have several admittedly GPs known to me finishing mid 50s.
UK salaries don’t make sense! these numbers are saddening
I'd be interested to know what expenses Junior Doctors need to cover out of that salary - e.g. average costs for parking, who pays for scrubs, do you have to pay out for any CPD etc?
I can answer this one.
Parking in England is set by the NHS Hospital, and so rates vary a lot. I pay £20/month but there is no guarantee of any space when you arrive.
Scrubs are free but they are worn+++ and often don't have your size. I therefore bought my own as I know they fit.
You have to pay out for all post graduate exams. To become a Consultant, there are around 4 or 5 - you pay per attempt and it's generally £300-£500 but some exams are £800-£1000. You have to pay (after the first two years) for your postgraduate portfolio. I have to pay my Royal College for mandatory portfolio access, which is £400/year. The GMC also charge about £200/year for the first 5 years and then doubled. I also have to pay indemnity insurance but only £50/year. I also pay for the BMA (our Union) which is £19/month.
i can add more to that
gmc 460 gdc 780 mddus 380 portfolio 285 rcpsgla 300 rcsed ~200 bma 37/month specialty membership 100 current exams 2000. on call travelling between hospital easy 70 -200miles per night on top of normal travel. courses average 1000 per year......
In the bad old days, on a 1 in 2 rota the first 40 hours were paid at the hourly rate, the other 80 hours were paid at 1/3 of the rate.
Most of the overwork has been caused by pastprime ministers who cut university places for medicine. There is a huge backlog of places for this profession, with loads of university places which have accepted students with exceptional grades, but these students are having to wait up to 2 years to start their training, I wonder how many in that time choose to emigrate, so that we loose those we so desperately need.
Not forgetting the NHS contribution of 20% to your pension. Good overall package
Wow, that’s a lot less than i expected.. good work
Doctors deserve so much more than what they actually paid
Our pay sucks comparitively mate. Did the maths previously and to have the same spending power as we had in 2010, on 27780 (spinal 2), I'd nearly be on 40k to have the same buying power as back then. I work as a biomed scientist in nhs lab. Band 5. Did 4 years of uni, including 1 year of borderline indentured servitude, 9 to 5, 5 days a week, for 1 year. Biomed no longer gets grants or bursary for the placement year, had to work in dominos after normal hours and weekend to get by. It was a full-time job with no pay, still had to pay 50% tuition fee on it too. Disgusting its allowed today, wholeheartedly believe any placements like that should be at least 50% of full band 5 pay and any one that has prev done them should be compensated. Ended up on antidepressants for years resulting from it, felt unable to help or contribute to my family as my time was gone and couldn't generate income even if i wanted to. Absolute shame. What's more the placement is pointless as NHS now hires those that haven't done placement, pays them in full until they get portfolio required for full band 5 biomed duties. I went into work with people getting paid to do what i did for free. Hard time getting over it.
Can I ask if you think that you make enough to have a comfortable living? Or do you have to worry a lot about budgeting especially with bills going up?? I’m just going into 5th year and deciding where to apply for foundation jobs etc.
I am fine, basically due to living in a cheaper city and have a contract that covers my bills - appreciate that this is extremely lucky and I'd be nervous about bills otherwise
It is interesting to know that a software engineer in FAANG company in UK makes way more than a doctor during initial stages of her career.
A SE in FAANG is not for everybody though (and they work more than 48h I guess, although in less stressful situations). I think the main difference is that the private sector allows for a broader range of salaries, here everybody is paid the same which is very tough. Also, the pay illustrated here is not bad for a first year, but in SE (which is my field btw) if you are good the pay can rise very fast. Here it doesn't say about how fast the salary rises, but I expect not fast at all and mostly the same for good and not-so-good doctors.
Awful salary considering your responsibility. Can easily walk into a grad. scheme after a 3-year degree on a 38 hour contract and earn 30+k. Fingers crossed pay is restored!
How much do FY1s get paid in jersey and do you still pay tax?
thanks but its just like an apprentice -- later in life money can poor in
Nurses are no difference to this. We definitely need to take some action regarding insulting pay packets comparing to the workload!
However if we do strike, we ALL needs to strike at the same time. It’s no use Drs striking one day, nurses the next week....what about Drs, RNs Midwives, All other staff cleaners, radiographers, etc. All on one day all in the same timeframe. Emergencies, childbirth , etc are exempt. All we need to do is sit in the office. Or stand in the corridor. Wait until the Trust cave in, get them to sign the contract with the Unions regarding increased pay and hours of work ....all organised before the strike begins. Bu I doubt it will happen. Unions are hand in glove with the NHS Trust managers.
@@Foxy_ladyYTSL £35k is not the full package - very good pension provision and very good opportunities to progress to earn very much more.
This is insanely underpaid given the years and years of work that you have to put into becoming a doctor and the actual difficulty of the job to be paid this little. You can literally work as a waiter and gain the same or more at some places.
Had this discussion with our waiter at a restaurant tonight! He outearns me as a medical FY2, he was very surprised!
@@OllieBurtonMed and he will continue to do so unless he changes he's job - you on the other hand as other have pointed out have a well paid career ahead of you.
@@bobbuilder6669 still a third lower in real terms than 2008, and everyone wonders why increasing numbers of our colleagues are heading off to Australia.
Entry level pay. 26-45k How long does it take to move up to the higher bands registrar consultant professor etc? Which puts you in the 50-100k plus pay brackets. How much experience (hours years surgeries births etc ) and proof of ability is needed? How does pay progression work?
To become a registrar is typically at ST3 (so F1, F2, CT1, CT2, then ST3) so 5th year postgraduate assuming you progress at maximum pace, which is still highly competitive and it usually takes longer. Consultant is then around 10 years postgraduate for most specialties, but again competitive to get the posts. Professor is a more academic role and again would be extremely competitive requiring an extensive research career which the vast majority do not do.
@@OllieBurtonMed ok thanks for breaking it down. Often people do not know the journey.
Very welcome, it's complex!
Pay progression is mostly on time served. Nobody ever gets the sack.
My Daughter had Necrotising Pancreatis. My Husband died of Colorectwl Cancer aged 48
Doctors are underpaid in the UK by far. This is sad.
So £35k, FY2 basic is £34,012 so with the bumps possible a gross income of £42k and the potential increases each year will soon add up as any doctor climbs the pay scales, no disrespect but all jobs like nurse, teacher, police etc have a low start point relatively but increase steadily and with additional responsibilities gain more pay points, they also generally have more holiday and better pension schemes that are backed by the government than those working in the private sector.
In every trade you have to go through a learning earning phase. So I met a really nice guy and his wife while doing some sailing. I have a small sailing boat, cost me about the same as a cheap car 17k it's 50 years old. I love it. There's a tap on the side of the boat, I'm doing repairs, I was invited over to this guys posh boat for pre-dinner drinks. Long story short he's a doctor, we talked till 2 am (the wine & ouzo helped) I said I thought 100k was too much for a GP, I said it's so much three fifths of the GPs at my surgery choose to work part time. I commented that it makes for a poor service because they're not getting the experience they need nor is there continuity of care. He said. "Oh your way out" I retired 2 years ago on 230k I received a 630k tax free lump sum, I bought the boat with it. I live in a 12 bedroom 5 bathroom house in it's own grounds, it's worth 2.5 million. He wasn't bragging, it was irony . He said you wouldn't turn it down! He was right. Don't get me wrong he and his missus came from a working class background, he worked full time in his own practice in a large village, I really like them, no heirs and graces just honest people (seen them since) always have a chat & a drink. But that kind of money is obscene, playboy money, only in the UK & USA
17,600 per month, it's not right, that's the kind of money an entrepreneur earns, probably employing a good number of people.
Hey ollie, that was a great piece of information.. thank you. Just wanted to know how much one can save every month (on an average) with a decent standard of living as a FY2 doctor?
So many factors involved in your question. It would depend on where you live and if you share with family, friends, a partner or living alone.
Living alone in London and your going to have nothing every month and living with a partner in Manchester and you can live very comfortably.
After 6 years of higher education + BSc and working for free on the regular in these years =)... crazy
what video programme do you use? love the animations
Just premiere Pro!
That's so low! Rent alone comes to around 1000£ or more😢
Make salary video regularly plz because i am planning to work as doctor in uk ❤️
Really informative. If you go on strike I'll dig into my pocket for you, hopefully you'll stop the running down of the NHS (100,000 staff shortages, 25,000 bed shortages, hours waiting by ambulance/paramedics to handover patients, a cap on the number of new doctors to be trained etc).
I for one feel that if you strike you will win, the frustration that people feel at the problems outlined above will be outweighed by the good will that doctors have. The slurs that the government will sling at you if you do strike will be vast, see RMT, £40,000 for drivers, little realising that drivers do no join the RMT.
I wish you and your fellow doctors success.
PS I'd love to see how GPs are funded?
GPs earn on average over £100K per year. A massive proportion earn so much money they only work 27 hours a week.
@@davidwebb2318 please can you cite where you gained this information. I have often wondered why the doctors at my surgery work part time. My local surgery is funded in part like a small business, in agreement with the NHS. I've since found out my surgery has a turnover of less than £5 million pounds per year.
The two partners who own this surgery employ a lot of doctors on a part time basis and whole lot more staff i.e. nurses, pharmacists, admin and IT staff.
A far cry from the altruistic fiction that I used to believe
Junior doctors are not overpaid, but it must be recognised that it is a training position and junior doctors are significantly better rewarded than other health disciplines under training. Also, the UK taxpayer invests significant funds into their training. However, later in their careers, I believe the salary and pensions of medics is way over the top. They are also allowed to engage in private practice alongside nhs work - not available to other health professionals.
Other health professionals surely can work privately? There are so many private physiotherapists, psychologists, lots of HPs doing aesthetics etc etc
Pretty informative. Can you please advise the approx pay after the foundation year, also the foundation course consists of 1 or 2 years? Thanks.
2 years, but the pay in F1 and F2 is different. If you Google UK doctor payscales you can see them all easily on one page
I'm amazed at how such a critical and specialist job (imo) is so poorly paid. However, I think its also worth everyone understanding that many doctors start at your level (which in essence is close to the bottom of the ladder in most businesses), and then strive to aim for private, consultative, specialist roles that can earn hundreds of thousands of pounds annually. This is where the real angst stems from in that you are driven towards the private medical world (and therefore the general public loses the benefit of your skills) in order to earn a more realistic wage. Capitalism works against us in this respect because I would far rather pay for skilled people such as yourself to stay in your public role whilst earning a real-world salary. However, I also believe that the NHS is fundamentally being ran incorrectly and is basically a cash register for the large pharma companies and hospital development funds. I'm not sure what the answers are, but the current direction only has one outcome to the deficit of all 'normal' people; privatisation. You cant and shouldn't be allowed to provide a healthcare service on the basis of shareholder profitability.
All you NHS workers deserve more!
Why is everyone striking except for Doctors? Is it because of the gestap- I mean General Medical Council?
We're balloting for IA in just a few weeks
Meanwhile, train drivers in the UK earn an average of £48000 a year and are on strike over pay and conditions. Everyone in the NHS should be getting paid those kind of salaries and train drivers on £28000. What's happening in this country?
Thankyou for everything you do 🙏
Trainee train drivers like trainee Dr's start on lower pay and progress. Train drivers will only ever earn maybe £60k after gaining enough experience to be a driver instructor / examiner. Whereas Dr's after equivalent experience will earn significantly higher salaries. Drivers have had T's and C's gutted with yet more changes in the pipeline while public money continues to be funnelled into private hands.
It generally helps if you look beyond the Tory owned press, if you're a Tory then fair enough, and consider the agendas being sold to you.
I wonder if doctors in the UK do on calls and if on calls count towards their hours.
Can you do a video on medical insurance? Thank you!
For the job and hours that doctors do be it a junior it's underpaid!
The government needs to review this a good video
Good lord……. Overworked and underpaid…… I knew it was bad but didn’t think it was this bad!! 👏🏻👏🏻 for your honesty like how do you live on that…. Rent, food and god forbid a social life…..???
Any thoughts on the stealth privatisation that has been ramped up during the pandemic?