There is a story in metal world where a band used programmed drums to have very fast double bass beats. George Kolias of the band Nile decided that he wanted to incorporate those beats in their music and learned to play faster than the programmed drums of the other band only to discover it was not real human playing. ua-cam.com/video/BA4Sq0mqU-k/v-deo.html
I was there. We all went insane when the record was achieved. But when we found out what happened, it was sad, but also controversial, and I’m glad you’re bringing this to light.
I gotta wonder, would people ever accept a run by skycrafter again? Like, if they were to put in the effort to actually get a legit run, would it be accepted? I know it'd probably have to be proven legit first, but if it passed every "test" so to speak, would it be possible for someone who previously cheated to get a legit run on the leaderboards? Edit: and, as an extension of this question... If someone cheated for the purposes of practice, theory, etc, but didn't submit those cheated runs, but rather used them as guidelines for a legit run, would that be acceptable? Like, learning the lines in slow mo, then gradually speeding up the game to realtime for the purposes of learning and adapting lines, and finally turning off all the cheats for hunting the actual record and getting a legit run. Would that be acceptable?
@@StormTheSquid the former would potentially be acceptable but tbh I don't think that would even ever happen. Cheaters don't have the patience for that. The latter would be perfectly acceptable, this is basically what TAS is about. Use tools for knowledge, and then trying to replicate humanly. Altho I don't think learning a track in slowmo could help you. The most useful way of using cheats to learn in tmnf is probably to speed up runs with predefined inputs until a specific point in the map where you take back control to train a particular part of the track. Kind of like a custom checkpoint where you don't lose speed when you respawn (kinda like tm2020)
@@StormTheSquid yeah, as long as you don't submit your run as a legitimate run its completely fine to "cheat" for the purpose of practice, if it wasnt TAS's wouldn't be a thing
9:16 "An entirely new computer bug, one that has just occurred after thousands of plays, happening only in this particular world record run, using a trick no-one has ever done RTS, localized entirely in your kitchen?!" "...Yes!" "May I see it?" "No."
Jesus christ the speedrun community in Trackmania has a lot of integrity and sherlockian detective work to flish out the cheaters. Greatly appreciated!
trackmania has a years long history of people cheating to get world records, so the community coded a bunch of mods and other tools to analyze inputs and replays for cheating. they had to, otherwise the entire leaderboard would be cheated runs
I think its important to remember that there is nothing wrong with not having the passion and dedication to spend 200+ hours grinding a single track, let alone a 30 second track. Like... to most people that would be mind numbing. I can't imagine what it would be like. Some people really just need to understand that even if they think they want it more than everyone else, the people who want it the most are willing to put in those 200, 300, 500+ hours into a single track. And its a disgrace to those dedicated individuals to try and fake that.
It really feels they should put in a few more hours to foolproof their work. He could have spent a lot of time TASing a lot of near misses and a mix of good and bad attempts. If you say you have 125 hours of tries, create 125 hours of tries, all on TAS if your skill is not enough. Then play them all back to back and save all replays. You would have a mix of attempts and only have CE attached to trackmania which you can explain away. Reading all the above things I wrote, I worry for myself :(
But that's the question, people cheat because they don't have the determination to grind and refine the runs until they get it, they don't want to waste so much time so they just fake it. If cheaters had to spend this much time to fake a run then it would be directly opposite to the reason they started cheating in the first place lol
@Zach There is just no absolute way to prove the legitimacy of any run. Even not having any kind of Cheat Engine running does not prove anything, see what pro esports players have done in the past with extracting memory straight from their hardware. It's all about making it believable, that's why riolu got away with it for such a long time. He was (almost) that good and was proving it live regularly. If he had been smoothing out his inputs to a humanly possible level, no one would have ever doubt his records.
Damn, as a tool assister i have known skycrafter for 3/4th of a year, and i really thought he was legit and i really wanted him to be, but if something looks too good to be true it often is. Good video as always
As my world record on StarBay C3 shows, it's entirely possible to perform new nadeo cuts without being especially mechanically good at the game, and instead using your brain to find opportunities that others have missed. Cheaters have absolutely no excuse!
I’ve never understood why TAS people try to fake legit runs. I guess there’s just less clout? But like… you can do so many things with TAS. I’ve seen many new world records set only because somebody made “potentially humanly viable TAS” videos that inspired people to try. In a perfect world, the TAS community would be recognized more for their contributions.
The part where you talk about the dedication of the actual trackmania wr contenders and showing all those flying cars rly gave me goosebumbs, great storytelling once again!
i always expect him to say "this goes for everything in life" and then am slightly sad he just limits it to trackmania and doesnt point towards the bigger picture
@@rksworld4405 its quite intuitive that it does apply to everything in life but even so he has done so in many other videos, he has to change the script a bit so it doesnt get too repetitive for people who watch every video of his. we already have the engine off block and "then hefest got this run" memes lmao
@@rksworld4405 Wirtual alludes to that in his conclusion. Passion, dedication and work ethic will always overcome the cheap shots that cheaters will take for their own ego
Tbf you could actually make a case for dream not knowing, the guy who makes the manhunt mod for him told him it didn't affect single player even though it did and thats what the cheat came from
@@jimiyu. Yeah right and he (his pr team) also hired an anonymous "harvard astrophysicist" to use misleading and intentionally confusing wrong maths to prove his innocence, keep huffing that copium
@@jimiyu. And that's not even considering the fact that the supposedly accidentally installed cheats just so happened to affect the drop rates of the exact 2 items he needed for the run, which is something that has nothing to do with a manhunt mod
@@potatoonastick2239 It has a lot to do with a manhunt mod, because standing around waiting to get rods and pearls doesn't make for an interesting video.
@@potatoonastick2239 has a lot to do with manhunt, its an open fact that the manhunt boosts drop rates in order to speed up video making and buff the runner Watch karl jobsts video on this he explains it better than anyone who's ever going to read this comment ever will
Wirtual really had to say "and then Hefest got this run" Edit: Why on earth did this get so many likes? Take them back this comment doesn't deserve them! Edit 2: Why am I still getting notifications of people liking this?! Stop it, get some help
It's kinda crazy how after such a big cheating scandal people still try to cheat as if nothing would happen and when they get caught they STILL reject all the accusations as if they would easily get away with it. Really just cannot trust anyone these days.
@@larion2336 technically true, but to me the evidence strongly suggests that no one is currently getting away with cheating world records in this game.
People keep going to jail for committing crimes. Yet people keep committing crimes. If people are willing to keep risking severe real life consequences, then why are you surprised people would stop cheating in a video game just because some cheaters get exposed?
Absolutely stunning video. It's shocking to me that some established runners will do anything to get recognition when the things they've already achieved, legit, are amazing enough as it is. What a shame.
The community is so interesting. I don't play TM but I get the passion in a niche culture. I will never understand the cheating though, because you have to live with the fact you never did it :(
The community is quite wholesome and supportive. We just witnessed Wirtuals attempts at the less than a few percent chance 'dragon yeet', with a two minute long setup. Thousands of fans cheering him on many hundreds of attempt's.
I don't play trackmania, but I'm honestly baffled by the high level of integrity, dedication and technical skills this community has. This is true sportsmanship and it is beautiful to see. Congratulations to all of you who play this game so passionately!
We need new category called "How did I cheat?" You cheat world record, others try to figure out how. Only thing you are NOT allowed to do is to do actual non-cheated run yourself. TAS, Splishing, Slowmotion all are allowed. You lose if people find out how you cheated. Ofc people should start by copying the old world record and boasting it as their best time. The whole point of this joke is to improve our tools to detect cheating. We don't know if someone is currently cheating in a way we could findout if only there were tools for it ;) How quickly it would be seen if I took 3 top player's world record inputs and edited them together so it seemed seamless? I mean if you are just holding W I can swap between any player and continue other's inputs and by adjusting how long/short I make the one button press I can adjust the driving lines and so on :D Having people come up ways to cheat and have community know the run is cheated and then to try find out how would be interesting idea for helping to improve the tools to see cheaters.
Frankly, the worst thing I learned from this is the fact that the replays I saved where I accidentally did a funny front flip before the finish won't ever get accepted to the leaderboards. 😔
I srsly nearly choked on my dinner at the end when Wirtual said those famous words.... ... and then Hefest got this run... back at the top of the Leaderboard. Genius scripting. Well played, Sir. Give the fans what they want!
14:50 i agree but you missed something. The absolute insanity of a tm player continuously playing through those failed attempts over and over and over again for tens to hundreds to thousands of hours just to get a new world record. And the mental fortitude it takes to not break every electronic in your house in the process.
What a shame. After all the things that happened. I'm only afraid that at some point in the future there might be somebody who has the knowledge and determination to produce a cheated/fake run in a way that makes it impossible to detect.
It's definitely possible right now, but the amount of game knowledge needed to do so, and precision of the run would mean that it might actually be easier to get that record legit instead
@@scoobysharky if someones determined to cheat, they will. For all we know someone could be working on something as described by Bluescreen_1 and we wouldnt know.
If there are no replays of a world-record attempt, then it should not count by default. Thats like attempting a Guiness World Record by saying "Hey I did---" without any proof or referee. Game Replays are like Referees and check if the attempt is valid. Without replays, the attempt is not valid by default. Thats my personal take.
7:59 Wait, wait. Does that mean that Donadigo's patch actively scans for open processes on your computer and/or files not related to Trackmania and saves that data into replays??? I am not an expert in cybersecurity, but that behavior seems... worrying, to say the least.
From what I understood from the video, the patch didn't detect CE was running - it detected it was *attached* to the Trackmania process. Nowadays I mostly use Linux so I'm not sure how it works on Windows, but I'm pretty sure there are APIs that let you enumerate the DLLs attached to a process, and I think that's how CE manipulates processes it attaches to.
Great video Wirtual, do you ever fear that explaining what someone did wrong in their attempt at cheating is laying a blueprint for those in the future that will 'check every box' to make an iilligetmate run look as real as possible? (Previous saved records where it was close etc)
9:52 honestly just having cheat engine attached or having messed with the memmory discredits the run IMO. Even if he were to have done a real run. Just like it isnt accepted when you dont play with comp patch these should be common sense to disqualify.
@@IvyNakano That's not the point they were making. They were saying that, if your run is illegitimate if you didn't have the comp patch on, it should also be illegitimate if you have Cheat Engine on. Doesn't matter whether you only forgot or you did it intentionally, because matter of fact, you had it on.
@@IvyNakano I don't mean that its evidence its just something easily avoidable and would be stupid to allow. This is like finding doping in the bag of an athlete and saying well we still haven't proven that he was using them.
You don't understand bro yes I had CE opened bro and Shadowplay didn't work bro and I messed with dates bro and I didn't have replays from 18000 attempts bro and my game speed was different bro but I did it legit bro just trust me bro
I think it would be cool for you to invite Donadigo to your stream for a sort of director's commentary with you about the video. The dude seems like a magician when it comes to trackmania and would be super interesting to hear him get into more detail.
You can auto attach a process in CE by adding the exe name in the settings, in short, someone that uses CE a lot would not manually attach the process.
What I learned on my 250 hour journey in TM, is that you improve very quickly just by playing more. I struggled sometimes to even qualify for COTD to hitting 1844 as my best placing at around 100 hours of play. After that point I didn't improve much because people were driving much better, better lines, knowing to how to deal properly with all the surfaces, knowing how to break, slide etc etc. After 250 hours I haven't been getting any better placings. My runs do look better, I've learned some small things here and there. My point is that at a certain point in TM you need many 100s if not 1000s of hours to get a little bit better. For me TM is one of the hardest games i've ever played because even if I get super good I'm still going to be 1000s of hours practice behind the REALLY good players. Good example of this is COTD Div 1, you can make 1 bad turn and lose, I would call that very unforgiven and having a high skill requirement. So being a player that grinds and are able to take world records in TM, it's going to take 1000s of hours of experience to do so and you will get pretty fucking good at the game. So watching a guy that has almost the same lines as a beginner scrub like me, suddenly take a WR from a guy that has 1000s of hours in the same game and was a name I knew about long before I even started to watch TM, is already beyond sus.
the nose boost looks neat and it seams like something fun to pull off (even if you end up going AWAY from the goal) i have always been a sucker for chance based things that have nothing to gain but a neat story and nothing to loose than time
Taking a page out of Karl Jobst's book, I see. Mass effect soundtrack :D How do these people magically have all sorts of technical problems when asked for replays and such? It's hilarious.
yep, dedication and self-belief are 2 important factors for legit WR hunting also patience is needed :) did grind daily for 4-5h back in my tmuf bay prime !
Would be interesting if you covered actual disproven or fabricated cheating suspicions that ended careers unfairly or high level players who have survived more than one scandal by proving their legitimacy. That's a side of speedrunning that gets almost no coverage but I feel it's an important counterbalance to the current wide coverage of disgraced players.
Only coverage I think I've ever seen on the topic is a single video from Karl Jobst. Would definitely be interested if more coverage was made, but I'm not sure if TM has any such cases.
Part of the reason you don't see much about disproven cheating allegations is that you don't want to damage someone's reputation if they've been proven innocent. Unfortunately if you put someone's name on the internet associated with the word "cheat" there will be some lazy people & trolls who will assume they _did_ cheat... even if the entire video is discussing how they _didn't._ It's bad enough having to defend yourself _within_ a community without the wider internet drawing the wrong conclusions... so while it might be OK to discuss more generally, it's not really fair to the players to talk about their individual situations without their OK.
Mainly because most of the times these comunites are tightknit and you don't want to go arround accusing people of cheating, so the vast vast majority of times when someone gets accused of cheating, they already have the evidence.
Its amazing to me how well equipped and critical this community is as opposed to CSgo where there's cheating on the competitive level but anyone who ridicules and notes it is dismissed, slandered, and no additional tools, recordings, and input recordings are provided to disprove claims of foul play... The noseboost that'd be near impossible to get in these 0.2-0.3 seconds due to crazy inputs in minimal time happen on the CSgo 'pro' arena daily with claims its totally legit lol, and it persists for decades without being shot down, so, idk if i'd say cheaters will be caught in the end, many games and people seem to get away with it all the time, sadly
I don’t even play this game, but I swear, your videos are absolutely riveting. Once I get started, I will 100% of the time watch the entire thing. Good stuff as always. 🔥🔥🔥
The music you used starting 2:06 was an absolutely beautiful song. I completely forgot what you said and had to go back lmao Name is Stationary Sign - The Forgotten Rusty Carousel for anyone else taken aback by how great it was :)
Because to be a good cheater you would need to know Trackmania (and multiple third party programs) to a rather alarming degree, down to specific strings of code. Its very difficult to cheat convincingly when you have people who are so in love with the game they can recite code strings at you to disprove your claim to fame lol.
Someone said to me, "Why is this guy going out of his way to bash these players" .. I almost didn't know what to say. This is what deters cheaters. Cheaters should be exposed to the fullest and the people that take the time to highlight it and call it out for the bullshit it is, are what keep the integrity of a game. Not done in bad taste, just calling it for what it is. Always a like from me Wirt.
I swear, if I had the time i'd love to try and go for a record. I love trying difficult things over and over in the games I play, even if it's a game i've never played or don't particularly like. Every time I watch one of your videos I tell myself to boot up TM and go for it, but I can just never find the time. One of these days I'm gonna try it. And I know it sounds stupid to others reading this, but one thing I really want to do, is come out of nowhere with no history and grind unnoticed to just decimate something and shock everyone. To make them think it was a fluke or somehow cheated, just to make every unlisted achievement public and surprise everyone. And I have done similar things before with a few records in other games, just not for something as difficult and beloved as TM, and so I usually delete them or keep them unlisted. Man, I swear something about Wirtual videos just really gets me. Maybe it's the passion and love for the game? I'm not sure myself. But just like my dumbass is, i'm sure you'll probably inspire a future WR holder and I just wanna say thanks in advance if it ever happens. Even if it never comes to fruition, you got me interested in something I could've easily gone my whole life never knowing. I only wish I knew there were dedicated communities like this sooner, rather than spending over a decade and a half breaking games and challenging myself out of boredom, and doing incredible things no one would ever know, and having luck that should never realistically happen to a person. I never knew a world this competitive existed until I was already a struggling adult, but better late than never I suppose.
So did anyone try if changing your PC's time and then having an automated and an manually saved replay lead to different dates/times? I guess they would still both be the same, but it still could be interesting if that's not the case. Time and date is a horrible thing with PCs.
Who actually changes their PC's time for anything normal? Everyone's OS just fetches times from international time servers. There is no *good* reason to set your time manually. Only time people do that is to try and game a system or break something.
@@amicloud_yt .What about if you are visiting a place/ country that has a different time zone to your home time, and you take your computer with you ? Would you not have to manually change the time, or set a new country in the system settings ? Especially if you don't have an internet connection at that time.
I'm amazed there was a chance of keeping the replay after CheatEngine was discovered. It's like riding the Tour with a hybrid bike and going "nah bro I never turned the motor on, it's legit"
I feel like its way too easy to cheat any runs even competitions i would say. You can prescripted whole track before and then just run macro. Yes it would be difficult but in TMGL, you can script like 8 runs for each track and no one would really find out. Of course for some change you have to crash time to time but in the end you would be most consistent player and win everything. And i feel like with these videos from Wirtual you are just giving away tutorial how to not get caught.
people have been getting caught cheating runs as long as speedrunning (which arguably TM is adjacent to) has existed lol. "cheaters exposed" videos are always the most popular videos related to it and people still get caught. i wouldnt worry too much 🙂
tell you what, why don't you give it a go and see if you can beat the system. I'm going to bet you or anyone else couldn't successfully cheat based on wirtual's videos alone. This is a pretty dumb take.
@@jacksfacts20 It's totally possible, there was a player who used macros (or something similar) to cheat in COTD. Fortunately he wasn't trying to hide it (he kept getting the exact same time down to the millisecond), he was just proving it could be done. So yeah this is a totally valid concern, and it is indeed possible that someone could cheat their way into TMGL, with enough dedication and obviously a high skill level to begin with.
@@whatanoob96 i'm not saying that this couldn't be done, more that wirtuals videos are detailed enough to allow people to cheat, as though he shouldn't go into so much detail about it.
16:00 It actually only proved that the competition patch does not do its work at all as it passed the replay as legit and without donadigo manually checking the replay, there would be no proof of any manipulations in the files
And I do believe Wirt was intending to mean that Donadigo used this information to update the patch so that this kind of thing wouldn't need manual review
yeah sure bro lets invalidate the other thousents cheated runs that got catched by the patch because of one that it didn't caught. No anti-cheat is perfect bro, it doesn't mean we should not use it or it "does not do its work at all". You should be happy that when the anti-cheat doesn't work the community and the dev himself get together to analyse and validate the runs themselves
One cheater gets through the patch so that means the patch doesn't work? what are you on? nonsensium? As every other cheat detection system, the patch needs to evolve every time a cheater finds a new exploit. Donadigo is not omniscient of the ways cheaters could or will use to cheat, although he probably knows much more than me and you combined
Bro, i've never played this game before but i watch every single one of your wideos with such a curiosity that is crazy Keep it up, you are doing great work
So, if we know anything about Trackmania community, someone will soon beat his cheated record with a legit noseboost and professional racing lines.
Hold my beer, I'll be back in 125-250 hours
This community has proven to be awesome
And then, hefest got this run...
@@amicloud_yt 10000 more like XD
@@amicloud_yt !remindMe 250 hours from now 😆
Damn Hefest getting world records even without driving! The man is unstoppable.
almighty hefest at it again
lemao
really is the best, i think any run that beats his should be automatically flagged for inspection as cheated.
@@aquilleswinkler5051 Surely you jest no? Not even hefest himself would ever want that.
@@vepr5596 A joke to be sure, but any top run should be inspected regardless.
"And then hefest got this run.....back on the leaderboards" lol good job
Best part lol
@Josh Allen agreed
@@koo9ol who cares?
@@flyinginak4824 Chill man. His mom thinks he's special, that's all.
@@a2pabmb2 oh damn bigg oof
Would have been literal gold if hefest actually beat this cheated run with a legit noseboost of his own
There is a story in metal world where a band used programmed drums to have very fast double bass beats. George Kolias of the band Nile decided that he wanted to incorporate those beats in their music and learned to play faster than the programmed drums of the other band only to discover it was not real human playing.
ua-cam.com/video/BA4Sq0mqU-k/v-deo.html
@@theAristocrap *_damn_*
@@mechanicalmonkee6262 no hefest nub xD
It's kinda poetic that he just beat it with raw skill and no tricks though
@@MidwestFarmToys yes
I was there. We all went insane when the record was achieved. But when we found out what happened, it was sad, but also controversial, and I’m glad you’re bringing this to light.
I gotta wonder, would people ever accept a run by skycrafter again? Like, if they were to put in the effort to actually get a legit run, would it be accepted? I know it'd probably have to be proven legit first, but if it passed every "test" so to speak, would it be possible for someone who previously cheated to get a legit run on the leaderboards?
Edit: and, as an extension of this question... If someone cheated for the purposes of practice, theory, etc, but didn't submit those cheated runs, but rather used them as guidelines for a legit run, would that be acceptable? Like, learning the lines in slow mo, then gradually speeding up the game to realtime for the purposes of learning and adapting lines, and finally turning off all the cheats for hunting the actual record and getting a legit run. Would that be acceptable?
@@StormTheSquid i think but as it's not the case, it is a problem
@@StormTheSquid the former would potentially be acceptable but tbh I don't think that would even ever happen. Cheaters don't have the patience for that.
The latter would be perfectly acceptable, this is basically what TAS is about. Use tools for knowledge, and then trying to replicate humanly. Altho I don't think learning a track in slowmo could help you. The most useful way of using cheats to learn in tmnf is probably to speed up runs with predefined inputs until a specific point in the map where you take back control to train a particular part of the track. Kind of like a custom checkpoint where you don't lose speed when you respawn (kinda like tm2020)
@@StormTheSquid yeah, as long as you don't submit your run as a legitimate run its completely fine to "cheat" for the purpose of practice, if it wasnt TAS's wouldn't be a thing
Imagine getting that close then being exposed for cheating.
Every single run you did after that would rightly be microscoped.
9:16 "An entirely new computer bug, one that has just occurred after thousands of plays, happening only in this particular world record run, using a trick no-one has ever done RTS, localized entirely in your kitchen?!"
"...Yes!"
"May I see it?"
"No."
Skycrafter achieved his goal: Getting a world record
Except that it's the any% world record of getting cancelled in Trackmania
nah the record is probably alot lower
he wanted fame, he got fame, just not the type of fame he was looking for xdd
Let's go with he quickly gained publicity
It's like Banned% in Club Penguin, except you only get one try.
Instructions unclear, got banned from Trackmania - Skycrafter, probably
Jesus christ the speedrun community in Trackmania has a lot of integrity and sherlockian detective work to flish out the cheaters. Greatly appreciated!
lol
trackmania has a years long history of people cheating to get world records, so the community coded a bunch of mods and other tools to analyze inputs and replays for cheating. they had to, otherwise the entire leaderboard would be cheated runs
Speedrunners in a lot of games are like this, check super mario 64 and goldeneye
I think its important to remember that there is nothing wrong with not having the passion and dedication to spend 200+ hours grinding a single track, let alone a 30 second track. Like... to most people that would be mind numbing. I can't imagine what it would be like. Some people really just need to understand that even if they think they want it more than everyone else, the people who want it the most are willing to put in those 200, 300, 500+ hours into a single track. And its a disgrace to those dedicated individuals to try and fake that.
Moreover there's still glory to be had as a top TASer! Just don't lie about how you did it.
“There’s nothing wrong with it”
Immediately says what’s wrong with it
It really feels they should put in a few more hours to foolproof their work. He could have spent a lot of time TASing a lot of near misses and a mix of good and bad attempts. If you say you have 125 hours of tries, create 125 hours of tries, all on TAS if your skill is not enough. Then play them all back to back and save all replays. You would have a mix of attempts and only have CE attached to trackmania which you can explain away.
Reading all the above things I wrote, I worry for myself :(
yeah, i have same problem. It disgust me how those cheaters get caught even though i am not cheating :D
But that's the question, people cheat because they don't have the determination to grind and refine the runs until they get it, they don't want to waste so much time so they just fake it. If cheaters had to spend this much time to fake a run then it would be directly opposite to the reason they started cheating in the first place lol
@Zach There is just no absolute way to prove the legitimacy of any run. Even not having any kind of Cheat Engine running does not prove anything, see what pro esports players have done in the past with extracting memory straight from their hardware. It's all about making it believable, that's why riolu got away with it for such a long time. He was (almost) that good and was proving it live regularly. If he had been smoothing out his inputs to a humanly possible level, no one would have ever doubt his records.
no i get it, like if you're going to cheat, cheat convincingly at least
If he had the work ethic and dedication to do that, he probably wouldn't be cheating in the first place
Damn, as a tool assister i have known skycrafter for 3/4th of a year, and i really thought he was legit and i really wanted him to be, but if something looks too good to be true it often is. Good video as always
Damn, as a tool assister i agree
@@masnysunshine damn
As my world record on StarBay C3 shows, it's entirely possible to perform new nadeo cuts without being especially mechanically good at the game, and instead using your brain to find opportunities that others have missed. Cheaters have absolutely no excuse!
@@DELETE_CLUB i agree ☝️
I’ve never understood why TAS people try to fake legit runs.
I guess there’s just less clout? But like… you can do so many things with TAS.
I’ve seen many new world records set only because somebody made “potentially humanly viable TAS” videos that inspired people to try.
In a perfect world, the TAS community would be recognized more for their contributions.
can we all appreciate how much donadigo has done for the TM community, this guy is a true legend.
He is the reason TMNF is still playes
DonadiGOAT
Always the most entertaining, calming, anxiety releasing part of my day
I wonder why Wirtual's videos are so relaxing. I guess it's a mix of structure, music, his voice, and his personality
it rather struck me with anxiety on the words "and then Hefest got this run" xD
I never heard of this game until I saw one of your videos. I like how you mentioned and explain other tech, might try this game
Did u try it yet?
69 likes 😂
I played this game for the first time thanks to Wirtual a few months back, I'm hooked
The part where you talk about the dedication of the actual trackmania wr contenders and showing all those flying cars rly gave me goosebumbs, great storytelling once again!
i always expect him to say "this goes for everything in life" and then am slightly sad he just limits it to trackmania and doesnt point towards the bigger picture
@@rksworld4405 its quite intuitive that it does apply to everything in life but even so he has done so in many other videos, he has to change the script a bit so it doesnt get too repetitive for people who watch every video of his. we already have the engine off block and "then hefest got this run" memes lmao
@@rksworld4405 Wirtual alludes to that in his conclusion. Passion, dedication and work ethic will always overcome the cheap shots that cheaters will take for their own ego
"Forgot he had Cheat Engine attached"
That sounds familiar...Oh yeah! When dream got a record and forgot he had game altering mods loaded.
Tbf you could actually make a case for dream not knowing, the guy who makes the manhunt mod for him told him it didn't affect single player even though it did and thats what the cheat came from
@@jimiyu. Yeah right and he (his pr team) also hired an anonymous "harvard astrophysicist" to use misleading and intentionally confusing wrong maths to prove his innocence, keep huffing that copium
@@jimiyu. And that's not even considering the fact that the supposedly accidentally installed cheats just so happened to affect the drop rates of the exact 2 items he needed for the run, which is something that has nothing to do with a manhunt mod
@@potatoonastick2239 It has a lot to do with a manhunt mod, because standing around waiting to get rods and pearls doesn't make for an interesting video.
@@potatoonastick2239 has a lot to do with manhunt, its an open fact that the manhunt boosts drop rates in order to speed up video making and buff the runner
Watch karl jobsts video on this he explains it better than anyone who's ever going to read this comment ever will
Wirtual really had to say "and then Hefest got this run"
Edit: Why on earth did this get so many likes? Take them back this comment doesn't deserve them!
Edit 2: Why am I still getting notifications of people liking this?! Stop it, get some help
Goosebumps moment
Had to do it to ‘em 😂😂😂
It was just feeling right
He said the line!!!!
noob here, whats the context of that sentence?
It's kinda crazy how after such a big cheating scandal people still try to cheat as if nothing would happen and when they get caught they STILL reject all the accusations as if they would easily get away with it. Really just cannot trust anyone these days.
hey it's the auris guy from the video, can I have your autograph?
That's the thing though, you can trust people. Because every time someone does cheat now, they get caught within a few days.
@@patheddles4004 Well, if they didn't get caught you wouldn't know about it, would you?
@@larion2336 technically true, but to me the evidence strongly suggests that no one is currently getting away with cheating world records in this game.
People keep going to jail for committing crimes. Yet people keep committing crimes.
If people are willing to keep risking severe real life consequences, then why are you surprised people would stop cheating in a video game just because some cheaters get exposed?
Absolutely stunning video. It's shocking to me that some established runners will do anything to get recognition when the things they've already achieved, legit, are amazing enough as it is. What a shame.
I agree on riolu and co's case, but for skycrafter... Nah. A top 5-10% player, not an established runner.
I love how Hefest is always there to reclaim the glory and integrity of the game after the cheaters get caught.
The community is so interesting. I don't play TM but I get the passion in a niche culture. I will never understand the cheating though, because you have to live with the fact you never did it :(
The community is quite wholesome and supportive. We just witnessed Wirtuals attempts at the less than a few percent chance 'dragon yeet', with a two minute long setup. Thousands of fans cheering him on many hundreds of attempt's.
If everyone cheers about how amazing you are, you start to believe it too.
@@MeriaDuck And then he got that run, and the yeet became a yote. Moments like those are what makes this game so good to play and watch
that last bit would drive me absolutely nuts
come to us to bro
I don't play trackmania, but I'm honestly baffled by the high level of integrity, dedication and technical skills this community has. This is true sportsmanship and it is beautiful to see. Congratulations to all of you who play this game so passionately!
The most forced yet well received "And then... Hefest got this run" yet
Godzilla had a stroke
Wirtual always with the classic soundtracks. The man loves using the Sly Cooper theme and now the Mass Effect planet selection music. I love this man
So did he admit to cheating in the end or did he just disappear once the community found out it was quite certainly cheated
Riolu style
"waaaaaaah nobody likes me waaaaaaaaaah" is sort of how i picture it.
He admitted he cheated, and he disappeared
@@alstorm9940 double whammy
he didn’t disappear, i think he still uploads tasses on his channel
We need new category called "How did I cheat?"
You cheat world record, others try to figure out how.
Only thing you are NOT allowed to do is to do actual non-cheated run yourself.
TAS, Splishing, Slowmotion all are allowed. You lose if people find out how you cheated.
Ofc people should start by copying the old world record and boasting it as their best time.
The whole point of this joke is to improve our tools to detect cheating. We don't know if someone is currently cheating in a way we could findout if only there were tools for it ;) How quickly it would be seen if I took 3 top player's world record inputs and edited them together so it seemed seamless? I mean if you are just holding W I can swap between any player and continue other's inputs and by adjusting how long/short I make the one button press I can adjust the driving lines and so on :D Having people come up ways to cheat and have community know the run is cheated and then to try find out how would be interesting idea for helping to improve the tools to see cheaters.
This is a great idea lol
Generative adversial networks
I think that’s brilliant.
I think something like "Penn and Teller's Fool Us" but for speedrunning would be incredibly entertaining.
Similar to white hat hacking, it pays to have competitions of trying to cheat the anti-cheat system
16:04 "And then Hefest got this run" beautiful summary
Frankly, the worst thing I learned from this is the fact that the replays I saved where I accidentally did a funny front flip before the finish won't ever get accepted to the leaderboards. 😔
yeah, no shit. "LEADER"board....
I love this trackmania stuff it's amazing how do they do this there literally god's now in trackmania and racing
I srsly nearly choked on my dinner at the end when Wirtual said those famous words....
... and then Hefest got this run... back at the top of the Leaderboard. Genius scripting. Well played, Sir. Give the fans what they want!
it's strange how much you can learn about life from a car racing videogame
14:50 i agree but you missed something.
The absolute insanity of a tm player continuously playing through those failed attempts over and over and over again for tens to hundreds to thousands of hours just to get a new world record. And the mental fortitude it takes to not break every electronic in your house in the process.
basically just explained every speedrunner ever. Speedrunners have insane sanity.
What a shame. After all the things that happened.
I'm only afraid that at some point in the future there might be somebody who has the knowledge and determination to produce a cheated/fake run in a way that makes it impossible to detect.
It's definitely possible right now, but the amount of game knowledge needed to do so, and precision of the run would mean that it might actually be easier to get that record legit instead
@@scoobysharky if someones determined to cheat, they will. For all we know someone could be working on something as described by Bluescreen_1 and we wouldnt know.
"and then hefest got this run..." my heart dropped cause i thought he hit a noseboost just to stick it home
If there are no replays of a world-record attempt, then it should not count by default. Thats like attempting a Guiness World Record by saying "Hey I did---" without any proof or referee. Game Replays are like Referees and check if the attempt is valid. Without replays, the attempt is not valid by default. Thats my personal take.
7:59 Wait, wait. Does that mean that Donadigo's patch actively scans for open processes on your computer and/or files not related to Trackmania and saves that data into replays??? I am not an expert in cybersecurity, but that behavior seems... worrying, to say the least.
It could just save every file loaded into the game, the exe, windows dlls, screen recording programs, etc.
From what I understood from the video, the patch didn't detect CE was running - it detected it was *attached* to the Trackmania process. Nowadays I mostly use Linux so I'm not sure how it works on Windows, but I'm pretty sure there are APIs that let you enumerate the DLLs attached to a process, and I think that's how CE manipulates processes it attaches to.
i don't play trackmania but any process can get the process list, also move the mouse i think
There's something so majestic about watching all those cars flying through the air in slow-mo.
Great video Wirtual, do you ever fear that explaining what someone did wrong in their attempt at cheating is laying a blueprint for those in the future that will 'check every box' to make an iilligetmate run look as real as possible? (Previous saved records where it was close etc)
9:52 honestly just having cheat engine attached or having messed with the memmory discredits the run IMO. Even if he were to have done a real run. Just like it isnt accepted when you dont play with comp patch these should be common sense to disqualify.
Well, in his case, having Cheat Engine attached is not much of evidence, as he was a TASer, and CE is commonly used in TAS'.
@@IvyNakano That's not the point they were making. They were saying that, if your run is illegitimate if you didn't have the comp patch on, it should also be illegitimate if you have Cheat Engine on. Doesn't matter whether you only forgot or you did it intentionally, because matter of fact, you had it on.
(me who has never played Trackmania before) Protip! before starting your WR attempts, double-check that the comp patch is ON and cheat engine is OFF
@@IvyNakano I don't mean that its evidence its just something easily avoidable and would be stupid to allow. This is like finding doping in the bag of an athlete and saying well we still haven't proven that he was using them.
You don't understand bro yes I had CE opened bro and Shadowplay didn't work bro and I messed with dates bro and I didn't have replays from 18000 attempts bro and my game speed was different bro but I did it legit bro just trust me bro
I think it would be cool for you to invite Donadigo to your stream for a sort of director's commentary with you about the video. The dude seems like a magician when it comes to trackmania and would be super interesting to hear him get into more detail.
You can auto attach a process in CE by adding the exe name in the settings, in short, someone that uses CE a lot would not manually attach the process.
That sounds alot like manually attaching it haha
What I learned on my 250 hour journey in TM, is that you improve very quickly just by playing more. I struggled sometimes to even qualify for COTD to hitting 1844 as my best placing at around 100 hours of play. After that point I didn't improve much because people were driving much better, better lines, knowing to how to deal properly with all the surfaces, knowing how to break, slide etc etc.
After 250 hours I haven't been getting any better placings. My runs do look better, I've learned some small things here and there.
My point is that at a certain point in TM you need many 100s if not 1000s of hours to get a little bit better.
For me TM is one of the hardest games i've ever played because even if I get super good I'm still going to be 1000s of hours practice behind the REALLY good players.
Good example of this is COTD Div 1, you can make 1 bad turn and lose, I would call that very unforgiven and having a high skill requirement.
So being a player that grinds and are able to take world records in TM, it's going to take 1000s of hours of experience to do so and you will get pretty fucking good at the game. So watching a guy that has almost the same lines as a beginner scrub like me, suddenly take a WR from a guy that has 1000s of hours in the same game and was a name I knew about long before I even started to watch TM, is already beyond sus.
enjoy the ride my friend, we always got better ;)
wait a second, you can not qualify?
@@Obi-WanKannabis now i can, but my first runs no.
@@theoriginalbreadcrumb is there a player limit or were you unable to finish?
Why..... why do I love this channel? I could count the number of minutes spent playing track mania on one hand. Sign of a good content creator I guess
Ok side note. I love that you are using the Mass Effect Noveria Soundtrack. 😭😭😭 Favorite series to date
I honestly admire your spirit for competition and for this game, and i love that you speak of the greatest TM players like you aren't one of them :D
he's maybe the most famous, but not the strongest
Excellent storytelling. I know absolutely nothing about this game, but you kept me hooked throughout
What a fanstatic video. I love how you make these, thanks Wirtual
the nose boost looks neat and it seams like something fun to pull off (even if you end up going AWAY from the goal) i have always been a sucker for chance based things that have nothing to gain but a neat story and nothing to loose than time
Taking a page out of Karl Jobst's book, I see. Mass effect soundtrack :D
How do these people magically have all sorts of technical problems when asked for replays and such? It's hilarious.
Quality video, love everything you make
yep, dedication and self-belief are 2 important factors for legit WR hunting
also patience is needed :)
did grind daily for 4-5h back in my tmuf bay prime !
2 wheel records!!!
@@zai-tm
I heard "And then" and already imagined Hefest making the first nosebug wr xd
1 man, 1 dream, 18000 failed attempts + 1 which costed him his TM career
dream
@@Philyshark7 doo doo doo doo
This mass effect soundtrack kicked my nostalgia xD
Would be interesting if you covered actual disproven or fabricated cheating suspicions that ended careers unfairly or high level players who have survived more than one scandal by proving their legitimacy. That's a side of speedrunning that gets almost no coverage but I feel it's an important counterbalance to the current wide coverage of disgraced players.
I'd watch
Only coverage I think I've ever seen on the topic is a single video from Karl Jobst.
Would definitely be interested if more coverage was made, but I'm not sure if TM has any such cases.
Part of the reason you don't see much about disproven cheating allegations is that you don't want to damage someone's reputation if they've been proven innocent. Unfortunately if you put someone's name on the internet associated with the word "cheat" there will be some lazy people & trolls who will assume they _did_ cheat... even if the entire video is discussing how they _didn't._ It's bad enough having to defend yourself _within_ a community without the wider internet drawing the wrong conclusions... so while it might be OK to discuss more generally, it's not really fair to the players to talk about their individual situations without their OK.
Mainly because most of the times these comunites are tightknit and you don't want to go arround accusing people of cheating, so the vast vast majority of times when someone gets accused of cheating, they already have the evidence.
the mass effect theme instantly gives me goosebumps
"And then, Hefest got th-"
The Trackmania community: *Alright, we get it!*
This kinda makes me wanna join a TM discord to watch these convos happen in real time
If you said you did something 18000 times, but "accidentally" did it in a way that makes it look like you only did it 100 times, that's a problem.
That Mass Effect background music brings back so many happy memories of that legendary game series..
Its amazing to me how well equipped and critical this community is as opposed to CSgo where there's cheating on the competitive level but anyone who ridicules and notes it is dismissed, slandered, and no additional tools, recordings, and input recordings are provided to disprove claims of foul play... The noseboost that'd be near impossible to get in these 0.2-0.3 seconds due to crazy inputs in minimal time happen on the CSgo 'pro' arena daily with claims its totally legit lol, and it persists for decades without being shot down, so, idk if i'd say cheaters will be caught in the end, many games and people seem to get away with it all the time, sadly
My A-03 race uber bug took me 8 months to land and is still one of my proudest achievements!
"And then Hefest got this run".. he embraced the meme
I don’t even play this game, but I swear, your videos are absolutely riveting. Once I get started, I will 100% of the time watch the entire thing. Good stuff as always. 🔥🔥🔥
i cannot hide my happiness from hearing the line, just the right speed and tone, its perfect
The music you used starting 2:06 was an absolutely beautiful song. I completely forgot what you said and had to go back lmao
Name is Stationary Sign - The Forgotten Rusty Carousel for anyone else taken aback by how great it was :)
It's unbelievable to me how all this players manage to be this bad at cheating...
Because to be a good cheater you would need to know Trackmania (and multiple third party programs) to a rather alarming degree, down to specific strings of code. Its very difficult to cheat convincingly when you have people who are so in love with the game they can recite code strings at you to disprove your claim to fame lol.
Well the good cheaters haven't been found out.
Because the good cheaters don't get caught lol
@Cipheiz This might be it. Also to be a great cheater you basicly have to be a programmer. Which is a rather step requirement
Your story telling is amazing. I haven't played track mania in like a decade, and you're making me want to pick it up again.
"And than Hefest got this run..." "...again"
going back to this video, 1 day difference can very be just time zones being wacky
Your videos inspired me playing trackmania. Thanks for videos :D
I still love the fact that wirtual uses the mass effect galaxy map theme for his videos ❤️
Man I have fallen in love with this game because of you
slazem se
same
Me too
@@miloskrneta9497 naravno da se slazes 🤘😎🤘
Man I don´t even play/watch anything trackmania related, yet thoso videos keep me coming back.
Someone said to me, "Why is this guy going out of his way to bash these players" .. I almost didn't know what to say. This is what deters cheaters. Cheaters should be exposed to the fullest and the people that take the time to highlight it and call it out for the bullshit it is, are what keep the integrity of a game. Not done in bad taste, just calling it for what it is. Always a like from me Wirt.
"There are no shortcus to success" in a game built around finding shortcuts to success.
For 1 second I thought Hefest got the noseboost 16:05
Dude I don't even play Trackmania but your storytelling is sooooooo good I kept watching your videos!
Damn Wirtual, back at it again with the upload
I havent been playing TM recently because for some reason my screen flickers in full screen but I'm still in awe at how great this community is
Hello there
Hello
general kenobi
How ya doin
general kenobi
Congrats on 800k! :)
I swear, if I had the time i'd love to try and go for a record. I love trying difficult things over and over in the games I play, even if it's a game i've never played or don't particularly like.
Every time I watch one of your videos I tell myself to boot up TM and go for it, but I can just never find the time.
One of these days I'm gonna try it. And I know it sounds stupid to others reading this, but one thing I really want to do, is come out of nowhere with no history and grind unnoticed to just decimate something and shock everyone. To make them think it was a fluke or somehow cheated, just to make every unlisted achievement public and surprise everyone.
And I have done similar things before with a few records in other games, just not for something as difficult and beloved as TM, and so I usually delete them or keep them unlisted.
Man, I swear something about Wirtual videos just really gets me. Maybe it's the passion and love for the game? I'm not sure myself.
But just like my dumbass is, i'm sure you'll probably inspire a future WR holder and I just wanna say thanks in advance if it ever happens.
Even if it never comes to fruition, you got me interested in something I could've easily gone my whole life never knowing.
I only wish I knew there were dedicated communities like this sooner, rather than spending over a decade and a half breaking games and challenging myself out of boredom, and doing incredible things no one would ever know, and having luck that should never realistically happen to a person.
I never knew a world this competitive existed until I was already a struggling adult, but better late than never I suppose.
You know, I feel like watching Wirtual's historic videos is more cool than actually playing xd
If Dream was a Trackmania player
I could go to sleep to your videos with how calming your voice is
Cheated in a game for a world record... ON VALENTINES DAY. That's the saddest thing I've ever heard.
I just watch your videos because of your editing and story narration. I have never played track mania before but still enjoy your videos.
He had to squeeze in the hefest line 😂🔥🔥
0:10 The Galaxy Map Theme makes everything sound so perfect....
So did anyone try if changing your PC's time and then having an automated and an manually saved replay lead to different dates/times?
I guess they would still both be the same, but it still could be interesting if that's not the case. Time and date is a horrible thing with PCs.
with windows machines, they attempt to re-sync themselves to the world time clock at least once a day. so that excuse really isnt terribly valid
Who actually changes their PC's time for anything normal? Everyone's OS just fetches times from international time servers. There is no *good* reason to set your time manually. Only time people do that is to try and game a system or break something.
@@amicloud_yt .What about if you are visiting a place/ country that has a different time zone to your home time, and you take your computer with you ? Would you not have to manually change the time, or set a new country in the system settings ? Especially if you don't have an internet connection at that time.
@@andyhelliwell4955 Fair point. I suppose if you don't have internet you can't get internet time!
I'm amazed there was a chance of keeping the replay after CheatEngine was discovered. It's like riding the Tour with a hybrid bike and going "nah bro I never turned the motor on, it's legit"
I feel like its way too easy to cheat any runs even competitions i would say. You can prescripted whole track before and then just run macro. Yes it would be difficult but in TMGL, you can script like 8 runs for each track and no one would really find out. Of course for some change you have to crash time to time but in the end you would be most consistent player and win everything. And i feel like with these videos from Wirtual you are just giving away tutorial how to not get caught.
people have been getting caught cheating runs as long as speedrunning (which arguably TM is adjacent to) has existed lol. "cheaters exposed" videos are always the most popular videos related to it and people still get caught. i wouldnt worry too much 🙂
tell you what, why don't you give it a go and see if you can beat the system. I'm going to bet you or anyone else couldn't successfully cheat based on wirtual's videos alone. This is a pretty dumb take.
@@jacksfacts20 It's totally possible, there was a player who used macros (or something similar) to cheat in COTD. Fortunately he wasn't trying to hide it (he kept getting the exact same time down to the millisecond), he was just proving it could be done.
So yeah this is a totally valid concern, and it is indeed possible that someone could cheat their way into TMGL, with enough dedication and obviously a high skill level to begin with.
@@whatanoob96 i'm not saying that this couldn't be done, more that wirtuals videos are detailed enough to allow people to cheat, as though he shouldn't go into so much detail about it.
Ok mass effect music is nostalgic holy
16:00 It actually only proved that the competition patch does not do its work at all as it passed the replay as legit and without donadigo manually checking the replay, there would be no proof of any manipulations in the files
And I do believe Wirt was intending to mean that Donadigo used this information to update the patch so that this kind of thing wouldn't need manual review
yeah sure bro lets invalidate the other thousents cheated runs that got catched by the patch because of one that it didn't caught. No anti-cheat is perfect bro, it doesn't mean we should not use it or it "does not do its work at all". You should be happy that when the anti-cheat doesn't work the community and the dev himself get together to analyse and validate the runs themselves
One cheater gets through the patch so that means the patch doesn't work? what are you on? nonsensium?
As every other cheat detection system, the patch needs to evolve every time a cheater finds a new exploit. Donadigo is not omniscient of the ways cheaters could or will use to cheat, although he probably knows much more than me and you combined
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the competition patch was updated since december last year
@Edge comon now... you're being intentionaly obtuse, and it's kinda sus.
Omg the mass effect music in the background, such a nice memory
HE SAID THE LINE! WHAT A GOOD END
*The Good Ending Unlocked:* "And then, Hefest got this run"
*The Bad Ending Unlocked:* "Basically any other then Hefest got this run"
I can't believe that I watch every single of your videos without even playing the game. It's just too entertaining and every story is well told. :D
just install it and have fun! :D
Cheating in trackmania? No way
Bro, i've never played this game before but i watch every single one of your wideos with such a curiosity that is crazy
Keep it up, you are doing great work
btw rocket league as a game lol