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Model:Cycles Review // The Pros and Cons
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- Опубліковано 28 лют 2020
- Is the Elektron Model:Cycles worth It? Or more importantly, is it for you?
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#Dawless #modelcycles #Elektron
If you're here for the jam, it starts at @28:00 !! - Thanks for chillin.
Make some dub techno with the elektron cycle
I like your candid style of videos. Keepin' it real. Nice jam.
@@meinemudda3095 yessss pleeaaseer
Interestimg take on the box. Thank you. Has got a slight edge over Drubrute impact in you view? They live in the same niche. (: Interesting to hear you and the DN don't klick. (: tha happens, Still, if you put in the time there'd hot and fluid jamming zo be had.
illusion applies to all senses...
Finally an Electron device no one mentions the expression "learning curve"
😂
Or the word “mangaling”
People mention that too much. Elektron do things a bit different but once it clicks it’s pretty intuitive from box to box.
It's the "learning ADSR"
"I don't have an FM synth at all"
...
"oh, I have a Digitone"
And a digitone keys I thought which he said was so much better, and using it much more now lol.
tjs6025 "I don't have any analog synths" ... "oh, I have a Deckard's Dream and a Kijimi"
Wait, what happened to that glorious TX802?
... but I don’t use it that much
The Hand Banana selling the tx802, which is fair enough, there’s not thaaat much that can’t be done on it that couldn’t be done with a vst. However a tx81z or one of the other more sought after Yamaha FM boxes doesn’t really have a software alternative, but also I do love my tx802 because of the weird artifacts you get when sending a shit ton of midi to it through max msp
FYI you can transpose the keyboard with FUNC+TRACK, without needing to use the pitch knob. I think it might also possible to do pseudo-poly midi sequencing by extending note lengths in the sequencer so they overlap, but I haven't tried this with a polysynth yet. Edit: Yep, it works! Maybe you could even get multiple notes playing on top of each other by nudging them.
I just wanted to say that I love your videos! Your calm voice is really nice and I am always looking forward to get home and see your videos when a new one is released. Thanks you!
3:20 - You have to enter the Track Menu (Shift + Track) and turn "KbT" up or down.
Life saver!!! Thank you
@@RickyTinez classic Elektron - why make it simple when you can make it a hidden 3 button key command!
@@malcolmgoldie Mm, not really? I don't see how they could make it more simple aside from adding another button, it seems to work similarly as the model samples which i own, and the octave function that Malcolm described can be applied to basically any parameter and acts as a sort of global coarse tune function. for pitch it's increments of 12 semitones, and i forget how much other parameters change when using shift + whatever. In fact it might even be easier on the model samples, but I can't think of how it's done off the top of my head, but it's at least similar.
cool thanks. but how to transpose the whole track when its running?
@@gearpunk9632 I am not aware of any possibility for transposing a whole track during performance. But at least you can edit multiple steps by pressing multiple buttons at once (i use two to four fingers, but if you are capable of pressing more buttons at once due to special bodiliy capabilities, go ahead). Also, in editing the note (at least on the m:s) you can turn the data-knob while pressing it in order to alter the note in octave-increments.
27:08 😂 this is what happens when you buy too many synths
Just a quick notes of thank Mr. Tinez. Enjoy your content and your chill personal vibe almost as much as I enjoy your jams. Keep them coming and greetings from the great white north (Canada).
I like how every attempt to dive into a con branched out into multiple pros or cool things before getting to the actual con haha. Just speaks to how awesome the unit is, I guess.
Cycles Vs Digitone - only other cons Ive seen so far. No Arp on Cycles, and the ability to have one track play another track on Digitone is pretty dope. Being able to turn on an arp and have one track play another track is an incredible feature. Model cycles seems like it has a lot to offer in other ways and hopefully they'll have a lot of updates too.
I've had mine for a few weeks now, and I can confirm that the T1-T6 Track Pad velocity sensitivity is not good (the 16 Trigger pads, though not velocity sensitive, have a nice light touch).
Hitting the T1-T6 Track Pads, hard enough to get a sound out of them, makes my finger and wrist joints, hurt after a short while (quick way to get carpal tunnel syndrome).
The minimum threshold, for just getting them to trigger at all, is way to high for me.
I have developed a few workarounds for this...
1) Go into the Pad/Vel Menu, and leave the Fix-OFF, then turn the VDep, all the way down to 0.
This keeps the volume of each track pad hit, loud, while still allowing the modulation destination, to respond to velocity.
(NOTE: if you set Fix to a number, then the modulation destination, no longer responds to velocity).
(NOTE: Pad settings only effect the T1-T6 Track Pads, and have no effect on the 16 Trigger Pads, the 16 Trigger Pads always send max velocity).
2) If you want to use the Track Pads for velocity, use a yarn/felt covered marimba mallet, or some other soft, heavy item, to smash the Track Pads with.
3) Forget about Velocity on the Track Pads, and only use them for selecting the active track. Then use the 16 Trigger Pads, for recording your hits.
This has three advantages: First, it will save your finger and wrist joints. Second, it allows you to vary the pitch of your triggers. And Last, all your triggers will sound a max velocity, even with a light touch (you can change the volume of each hit manually afterword).
Until (if ever) Elektron releases a firmware update to address this problem, I hope these workarounds help.
I saw your "if I lived on an island" kit, and there was an ad for "Djeco Toy Piano & Synthesizer" and thought that was one of your pieces of kit. totally awesome lol.
I love mine. I think everyone is discussing the limitations in the sound design but for me it’s distinctive sounding. Like you said, the Juno 106 only ever sounds like a Juno 106 and people pay a fortune for an original one to get that sound.
Maven Fiction Great Point! I don’t hear anyone complaining about the 808 or 909 sounding distinct. This could become one of those groove boxes that defines or creates a genre. I hear the Cycles and I’m inspired.
Gar Hoover same, glad I’m not on my own haha. I’ve been using it to put together a specific set of tracks aside from my usual stuff and so far the one I’ve stuck on my UA-cam channel has gone down well.
well to be fair, FM synthesis has been repackaged every few years by whichever company, whether in groovebox form (dx-200), module, synth keyboard synth( Re-face) etc...nothing new here, sound wise, but workflow and mechanics are potentially different
Dude, that jam at the end. So chill but still hype. LOVE THIS BOX.
Thanks for the upfront pros/cons rundown. Since I already have a Digitone, my only justification points for this seem to be re-trig abilities and additional drum-dedicated tracks - also hoping the simpler workflow will be a pleasant surprise for beat-making.
Remember tomorrow is the anniversary of The Gong People. Our humble origins from these giant metal disks should not be forgotten. Let us raise a glass of sand to honour our forefathers of the Gong.
At the end i was like nooo cowbell... well voice got stucked and went to a smile. Dude, much love!
I'm just happy your review didn't land at on the same day as everyone else, a wall of Model:Cycles review doesn't make it easy to see the genuine comments from the "sponsored video" aspect!
Never watched one of your videos before. This was great!! You’re like having a good friend giving you the lowdown on a piece of gear. Thank you! Definitely subscribing.
Best review of this on UA-cam in my opinion. Ricky's the real deal.
I enjoy the Samples and I'm picking one of these up even though I also have a Digitakt and Digitone. The knob-per-function stuff is just fun. I do wish you could pattern lock panning.
Well that would be cool if they could implement that! I never thought about trying that. Using this has made me think about getting the M:S... 🤔
@@RickyTinez Yeah you can use the LFO to autopan on the Samples (and probably Cycles), but the OPZ sequencer has made me enjoy doing some panning sequencing. Model: Samples is fun too! Price is right.
Ricky Tinez meminds me of: "speak softly and carry a big stick [AKA drum machine]; you will go far."
Fade in - "I know I should not have gone to that event..." | Gold.
Regarding Global Mutes being both a pro and a con (and I agree), for the 'studio production' workflow you described, the simplest way to get the 'mute to live with the pattern' is to use the volume knob for that track. Not quite the same of course, but it allows you to use it effectively for song arrangement. Just copy a pattern to a bunch of slots, as you said, then play with the volume of each track, then pattern chain them all together. This is how I've settled into a nice workflow with the Model:Samples, so I assume it is the same for the Model:Cycles. The missing feature that would REALLY lock this into being a powerful song arrangement workflow is the ability to save and recall pattern chains...
Great video, Ricky. I assume you found out how to transpose keyboard octaves by now. TRK MENU
> KbT +/-
I'm gas'n hard for this for some reason even though I already own digitakt and digitone. It's just different enough and has such a straight forward approach that I really want it.
What the fuck does gas'n mean? Lol
kh7955 Gear Acquisition Syndrome. Don't laugh... it's a real condition.
What I love about you Ricky is your ability to relate to how we use these machines in real life. Learning curve and all. Another great video.
I have DigitoneKeys which I really like but will buy this for travelling fun and jam fun. And sadly, this means I will likely sell my Circuit..
Thanks for the kind words Scott!
I’m surprised by how intricate you can make the synth chord engine sound! It’s pretty flexible
I just ordered another novation circuit . The circuit is just so much fun. Having two is going to be very interesting.
I bought two to have different sound sets, figure out a fun, immediate live set up
I want to do the same thing but with a mono station, or maybe have three?
@@salvadorramos2545 at that point buy a deluge man.
@@LucIndustries haha yeah, you're totally right
The stations would be more fun and useful, honestly.
FM based drum machine. that's the most succinct description of this machine I've come across. I couldn't figure out why I thought it was limited in a way that made bying the Digitone a better purchase for FM synthesis, but your description nails it. But it also puts it a better light if you think of it as a strictly percussive FM synth then it seems interesting again, if that makes sense. Great video. Thanks for making it.
Exactly. For big FM kicks alone this thing is worth it haha
Those two boxes remind me of the blue and red Electribe in their prime. Immediate, self-sufficient, totally assuming their techno heritage. It's the perfect free party instrument.
Yeah
E2 with the elektron seq would be nice... i hated the electribe 2 sequencer...
Freetek in czech yeah
Some real ravers here
yes and then it became an iOS app
REGEND
And the app is pretty cool :)
@@Towly263 yes
Speaking of Jomox, I’m obsessed with his Alpha Base, it truly seems like the ultimate drum machine, the last one you’ll ever need, the one to make all your others collect dust. But for 2k it’s such a serious investment. Ever had hands on with it?
I have same question- heard the UI is hideous on the Jomox but drum sounds amazing even better than Rytm.
Another superb video, excellent review, extremely informative as always! Thank you so much! Looking forward to more videos to come!
This convinced me to finally get my first Elektron box. Been holding out hope for a modern take on the ultra-deep platforms that put them on the map, but they seem to be going in the opposite direction. Went with MD UW, with OT, AK and MM next on my list. Prob not going to see anymore devices like those classics, so I imagine they’ll only go up in price in the coming years.
Oh how right you were with those machines 😅
@@4lanimoyo553 Sadly missed out on Monomachine before it skyrocketed to $2500-$3000 :/ So I had to write that one off .. but did end up with MDUW, OT Mk2 and A4 Mk1. All worth every penny.
Reminds me of the dx200 loop station which I wish I had never got rid of, nothing else does hats like it, but it sounds like this might. Great Jam at the end by the way. Love your work, thanks man.
Thanks for another thoughtful and honest review, Ricky. You did a great job pointing out some of the limitations. Looking forward to getting mine soon. Hope you’re doing well.
@8:52 "Maybe I didn't play as much of a variation as I hoped"
Nope, you definitely did!
Recording quantization was on
Great job Rick, you do good reviews that is one of your strong points
The effects on all the newer Elektron boxes are sends if I’m not mistaken, with the Octatrack being the outlier. One of the reasons I love the Monomachine!
The Surging Mass Music - yep, every Elektron, bar the OT only have send effects.
Rob don’t forget the Monomachine...
Thanks for another great review Ricky. I feel like you fully explored it to help us really understand.
Ricky is Epic
Great review! I’m into audio over USB in a big way now and love the fact I get super clean audio direct into Logic Pro and it’s plugins.
Your reviews are always good. They make feel pros and cons both for the studio and live playing. We catch the whole spirit of the machine and the details that make it great or will make or life a misery. Or at least or gigs. Thanks a lot.
Thanks for the review Ricky. Just on the resolution thing, I imagine its same as digitakt. if you halve the clock division to make a 16 step pattern last for 32 steps, it's still only 16 steps because you have to be able to edit each step. The non quantized recordings are pretty impressive but it's really just setting the microtiming for you. If quantizing is on the microtiming ill always be recorded at 0. So you are halving the resolution when you halve the clock division, which is fine for pads etc.
The upside to this is if you double the clock division you do increase the resolution, it would give you 32 editiable steps an access to 32 microtimings on a 16 step sequence, when editing that track you just have to use the page button for that track.
At the event you got it from Ess said one of the machines has wavetable scanning (I don't have a digitone but I think this is unique to the cycles, I think you can also use LFO to cycle though chord types which would be unique right). I intend to get a digitone but I'd still like the cycles as well for quick fm drums and the wavetable tones etc, Seems to have potentional for some sweet chip tune tracks especially since you can plock in different machines per step for that c64 vibe.
Gg
Elektron's Elektribe... Oversynth make some great overlays for the Cycles and Samples, also some of those overlays help define the different sections, as well as the white and black piano keys down the bottom.
I own a Digitone, due to work/family i don't get to use it as much as id like and when i do use it i spend more time having to re-learn it, so like you I've ordered a cycles for more instant gratification, I'm not bothered about the live aspect i'm more record into Ableton and chop up.
I might suggest that an ear illusion would be referred to as an audio hallucination?? Or a hallucinatory sound or an illusory sound...
Totally agree about the velocity thing... but even more so, I wish there was a way to lock a pad to the "little keys."
Because live, or even just composing, I usually only ever want to use the chromatic keys on one track anyway.
Especially when finger drumming live and stuff... itd be ideal to just keep the tone or chord machine locked onto the keys.
I honestly think out of all the guys reviewing tech gear you are the best! Such a great honest warts and all approach. Well done on getting onto piano... your music is gonna take off! I'm a pianist and I struggle with the new tech... been doing this since 1985, own all kinds of old analogues and know them inside out but I think modern gear is perplexing... i.e. Digitakt, MPC Live et al... guys like you help me through it all..
I'm still waiting for OT mk3. I'll never buy anything else. This is the fight between me and elektron.
Great stuff! Your explanations are always so clear and your videos are always shot so nice!
27:25 It was hilarious watching you realize you had the Digitone. Boy has more gear than he knows what to do with! #Jealous
There are many auditory illusions my friend but I have never heard of an ear-lusion; I love it man!
Rob Art yes! That’s a track name right there.
Im reading this at the exact moment he’s saying it.. scary
Cool Box, Cant wait to see what the next one in the line up will be :)
Great honest review once again, killing it at the moment
3:41 exactly what we need on the novation circuit tracks!
The elektron family seems really cool, and model:cycles seems like a really good starter point. I hope you make addition cycles videos!
Fantastic analysis. Sub'd and clicked the bell! GJ!
Digitone is real DOPE and Im gonna marry it with the cycles which is arriving tomorrow 😎🙏 I'd love to see you using the Ottobit Jr with the Cycles 😊 Thanks for the review and synth love!
Mauretti Ditroifa agreed ottobit and this would be fun to see
Shift+Track will let you transpose “keyboard” and set the key for the Pad itself.
Now if they would let you set a per project key like on the circuit.
For the transpose function. Isn't there a KBT "keyboard transpose" setting under the track setup menu?
Doesn't a send return reverb for all tracks sound better than individual effects for the tracks? I always thought it makes the reverb sound more "together" and coherent because all sounds trigger the same reverb
Just ordered mine today cant wait! and thanks for the content
Is it good
Hmm.. On outputs. 12.4 chapter in the manual (OS 1.11) describes different options for track output. "12.4.3 TRK OUT Sets if the separate tracks sends audio to the MAIN OUT, HEADPHONES OUT, and USB or not" and same for DEL/REV.
If I read that correctly, with panning you get two individual dry outs... 🤔
Nice to hear your thoughts on this box. Great video.
You could probably couple this with a 909-style drummachine and a mixer. Think of the ravenous techno possibilities!
Sometimes, less is more. Thanks for doing what you do.
Love your videos man, such a chill vibe.
I think the idea the Model range are simply "stepping stones" to "real" Elektron gear is a little unfair.
You can make some fantastic music with the Samples and the cycles together. There is no requirement that you must want to then upgrade to a "proper bit of kit"
These machines are fantastic tools and you get the world famous Elektron Sequencer that also sends midi out.
The midi implementation is fantastic also.
The Sequencer is actually what makes the Model line so great. At 300 bucks u get a machine that can sequence up to 6 other devices with an Elektron brain... But then its also a really cool low budget sample unit. Or a really cool low budget FM synth unit... These are going to become rather popular over time due to their versality, price and power combination...
Yo! you the man, great to see how you've expanded and how you share man, you get better and better, respect your approach, perspective and insight. Quality through and through. Been finally looking into gear, so was interested in this, not yet sure still, but your video has been the best for me overall. Thanks for the premium 2months as well, been teaching myself keys, this will come in major for me, well stated too bout chords! :) bless
Lol man, it’s hard to walk away from sweet gear. Presently, I’m trying not to buy a vintage Korg Delta synth, which I know is rubbish, but can’t shake loose. Nice disclaimer and fair play to ya for purchasing. Appreciated, Ricky.
If the Delta is priced sharp then get it, always a good investment.
After finding out at Waveform PDX that the "Elektron workflow" really is not that hard to understand I have one of these now on the way. Lol.
I love their design, same thing with teenage engineering, they look like something that would be used on a space ship.
23:29 you mean a cue mix? that'd be awesome to create an additional set of mono outputs. I just tried the panning trick on the stereo pair and was immediately impressed with how it added another dimension to my pattern when I added mixer effects.
Nice review, Ricky. Appreciate your candor. I think I might stick with my Digitakt for now. Still got a lot to learn. I like the format of this one but maybe a tad redundant for me? Cheers
You mentioned the mutes are global (18:44)... but, like the Model:Samples, you can just turn down the track volumes per pattern, and save them that way. Kind of a clunky workaround, but it's what I like to do with my M:S, doing your "copy pattern and paste to a bunch of others" method. But nothing beats arranging in the DAW.
Nice vid! How about show it in context of live setup? Like Model Cycles and Novation Circuit go into Octatrack, which is mixer/EFX. might be a fun setup?
'damn i guess i just played it super on' nice flex
also great video i really love this machine!
also 18:24 is a hooooooooooot track
The sounds from the cycles are sooo digital drip 💧
Nice balanced detailed review. I find the Analog Rytm too complicated and too much hassle. This actually seems more appealing in the same way you prefer it to your Digitone. I was wondering about the Alphabase though although that might have the same problem. A Vermona DRM with sequencer could be nice with just 1 knob per function, no menus, searching, saving etc. I had way more fun on the simple Arturia Drumbrute than the AR.
But what about the model samples? I should probably pick that up instead no? See, I was about to grab one of these then started thinking, watching more samples stuff and it's looking even better?? Anyone who's tried both...what would be the major advantages of this over the model samples?
This looks like it will be easier for me, than the more expensive models. Thanks!
Obvious workaround for the global mute issue would be to remove the notes from the sequencer. Model Cycles has a deadly technosound to it from what I’m hearing demowise. Def gonna be my first portable elektron!
Having mix out options on main/cue would be totally dope! OT’s new best friend!
Thanks for the video! Helpful since I just got one a few days ago. I really like it, chromatic mode on is really cool like you said and the sequencer and parameter locking(?) takes this to a different place than drum machines since you can have multiple notes on the same track. Or you could have six tracks of the same source instrument with different tones/effects/parameters! That's awesome! I'm just an amateur who plays with electronic instruments so I am easily impressed LOL especially for $300. plus it's my first Elektron. Love your videos!
Am I understand right that this device is focused on sound design more than on sequencing/sampling/managing song? So I'm creating sound/some pattern, polishing it & send to DigiTakt, as example.
i'm loving your little jam at 30:00 - so good!
.."it's not like trying to drink from the fire hydrant"..haha
27:26 thanks for reassuring me to sell my digitone...i feel the EXACT same way about it
Can you imagine if they implimented that 4 track method you mentioned, then added the other 2 on the USB? They could call it "underbridge" lmao
Overpass
What a “Troll”
Model:Cycles sounds like a winner, I like how you compare it to the TB303 in the sense it does one thing, does it really well, and is fun to use. At the price there's nothing else like it. Can it do anything close to the Lately Bass?
What’s your favorite most versatile drum machine for designing your own sounds?
☝️
About the global FX, in Sonicstate's review he mentioned that modulation of the delay time can be accessed via MIDI parameter. Don't know the details myself, but it's something to look into if you want more control than what's available from the UI. Wonder if the manual mentions any other "hidden features" for the reverb. I agree, it would be great if they just added pre-delay to the reverb, through some shift function or whatever. Even a one-trick reverb pony needs up to +/-100 ms of pre-delay!
What do you think about the Model Cycles for someone like me who owns a Machinedrum SPS-1 MKII and I pretty much only use it for EFM. Like... that's it. I just use the FM on the Machinedrum because it sounds so good.
I feel like I could probably sell it and get a Digitone or Model Cycles. But I really don't care for all the menu diving, I just want to make bleep bloop rhythms with FM. Is the Model Cycles the answer for me?
(I feel like someone else would put it to much better use... I only end up using like 4-6 tracks on my Machinedrum, all EFM)
(One note.. I absolutely love the SRR on the Machinedrum. It's my favorite thing about it... I'm guessing Model Cycles won't have that right?)
Like it a lot! Great review. But I think the FM engine in my old Machinedrum more or less covers that...
Ricky, I'm retired and must spend my money wisely. I also appreciate that the other Elektron gear 2+ to 4+ the price have more to offer. Regarding, using the bass lines then wanting to program your track up the scale and return to that prior bass scale: these Model:Cycles and Model:Samples are both relatively inexpensive. Why not just buy 2 Model:Cycles, so you can add to or adjust that bass line beat in real time? Two of those would be less than a 1010music Blackbox (another great product you reviewed). Thanks so much for your great podcasts. I did a combination IKEA hack and found gear much like in setting up my own home studio on a very limited budget. And, it looks good and works well for me.
I wish the Octatrack and most of Elektron machines had a knob per function. The Octatrack just has too many multi-function button combos to be a relaxed experience when jamming. It could use 12 more dedicated function buttons; trig types, parts, recorders, etc. I still use it though. haha. I wonder if this is a new direction for Elektron to include more buttons and less menu divey.
Great video as always. Thanks buddy.
RICKY~~!!!!!!!!!
Interested to know why you think audio over USB is the future?
Another fantastic and informative video my brother!! Thank You!! Im still thinking if I should get a SAMPLES or a CYCLES?? But, Im thinking the SAMPLES because I wanted to load in a lot of parts I been creating on my DAW !! Can you sample into the CYCLES?
The Samples rocks - especially for what you want to do - the Cycles looks awesome too but as far as I know you can’t import samples into it - both machines together could be a wicked combo
Ricky, is there possibility to play sounds chromatically and enter them to the grid on Model:Samples too?
It really sucks that you can't have separate reverb and decay for different tracks :(