To answer your question at the end: It took 1200 seconds (20 minutes) to heat 10000cm2 (10L) of water 33 degrees (from 17 to 50). That is 330000 calories in 20 minutes, given the specific energy of water (4.18) that equals 1379400 joules in 1200 seconds, so 1149,5 joules in one second. Since a joule equals 1Ws, we can strike out the seconds and there you have it. The power transfered into the water was 1149,5W (on average, it was probably more when the water was colder and becoming less when the water heated up)
Thermosiphons always benefit from increasing the vertical height differences. I realize it was done this way to keep the shot compact, but it is close to the worst layout for a thermosiphon. You are attempting a closed-loop version of the *stack effect* so the siphon force _increases endlessly with height_ until the point where fluid flow friction overwhelms the stack effect. That flow concern also means you should use large diameter tubing/pipes, and keep things like the jug's petcock out of the flow loop. Also, some layouts will not self-start, but will work once something gets an initial flow established. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stack_effect
If you rotate the heating unit so the cold side water input it slightly lower then the hot side output you might be able to get enough convection to circulate the water.
Would love to see what kind of heating time you get (under equivalent conditions) with a combined system that includes your exhaust heat recovery thing. That being said, if I were out camping in the bush I wouldn't mind waiting 20-30 minutes for a batch of hot showering water. There's always plenty of camp chores to fill the time!
I appreciate your efforts and time testing. I was expecting a larger rise in temp of the water jug. Considering the run time of the heater to raise the ambient air temps, I don't see the heater running longer than 20 mins at a time. Meaning you couldn't heat a large volume of coolant. Over the same period of time using the coolant pump, could you obtain a higher temp in your jug with the EGR cooler on the exhaust gas? Thanks again
With the inlet and outlet pointing down?? how would it run if the heater was set up on one side as can be done with glow plug at top? Just a thought,, good video Thanks
A side by side comparison would be good. To see if the internal water heater or egr heater generates heat quickest. This would show if the extra expense for the inbuilt water heater is worth it.
What functions does the control panel have? Will it turn the pump on? Does it allow you to run it without the blower running? Example radiant floor heat without forced air? If you were to run liquid only would it be thermostatically controlled? If you had it hooked up to water and ran it in forced air mode without pumping water, would this damage the unit? My idea would be to use it in a van for both Forced air heat and or radiant floor heat, one, the other or both simultaneously
Heater on and off, heater output level 1-5 and pump on off control. The fan that blows the hot air is on the same motor as the fan that supplies forced air into the burn chamber. So it cannot be turned off. Without the pump running it'll happily boil whatever is in the heat exchanger.
Please do a test with your EGR cooler & pump to get maximum efficiency, looks like a setup I would like to use for a van build. Great test, thx for the clips!
@@DavidGalle1 @thomas barlow I was asking myself the same question, is the flew of the water going out enough hot to handle a 2L/mn flew of water for showering?
Hi Daved, I have used this same system using a small log burner in my workshop with great results I think for it to Thermosiphon efficiently you need the water in the "jug" to be lower than the feed pipe coming from the heater, otherwise you are adding pressure that will hold back the rising heat. Reduce the amount of water below the pipe and I bet you will get it to circulate, ..."RETEST"...
Put the hot water return at the bottom and the cold outlet at the top. The hot water rising from the bottom will cycle the cold water through the heater. For this to work you'll also need the system to be full of water obviously, or at least have both hoses under the water line inside the tank.
I don't think the pipes going down first is an issue (other than creating a small height difference between them), its all about pressure difference. It doesn't matter where the pipes go, just where they end up. Think of siphoning a liquid out of a container using a hose, it goes up first but still works. What will matter much more is the height difference between the heater and the tank, the pressure difference between the water inlet and outlet of the heater should be proportional to this height difference. And flow rate will be proportional to this pressure difference (possibly not a linear relationship?).
I have a question so does this have to continuously run to keep the coolant warm........ Like for instance would you be in let's say your truck's bunk trying to sleep in the fiery pits of hell why'll still trying to keep your engine coolant warm....... If that is the case I think it would be better off installing two separate systems.
Yes. You have correctly identified one of the major drawbacks with this version. I'm sure others would suggest opening a window, but that's just wasting heat and fuel.
Interesting, would like to see follow up experiment like this: 1) Use the diesel water&air heater to pre-heat the water 2) use egr cooler on the exhaust output directly under the heater to further heat the water. 3) put the heater on max 5 setting from start, not 3. Always possible to turn down the heat later :)
Depending on the water heatex design, it might siphon if the heater is mounted sideways. Basically the line from the heat source must only travel upwards to siphon.
This is the first video I have seen of yours where I saw your face. I kind of enjoyed the mystery. I used to imagine you're a crazy scotsman inventor type.
HEY DAVID !!! GOOD VIDEO BUT !! What did the maker of the heater intend to use the hot water for ?? Was it to heat water in an engine block? or for RV use ?
David McLuckie I wonder in which location this could be installed in an SUV for instance, to tap in to the engine coolant lines. All existing engine coolant parking heaters are always installed in the engine bay not in the cabin.
40-42c is the perfect temp for having a shower, so if you turned it on in the morning inside your camper van, make a cup of tea and after 20min turn the water pump off and then have a separate pump to a shower head and taps you can enjoy a lovely hot shower.
I am curious iff you put the EGR in line what the water temp rising will be. But the thing that i am most curious about is when you dont pump water for a longer time. Will the steam pressure be high? So will it boil the shit out of the EGR cooler and heater water system. Witch is more efficient on it's own the heater and water combo or a separate 5KW heater and the EGR cooler. I am building a stealth camper van within a year and looking to use this heater for shower water maybe. Greetz from holland!
Hey David, been looking for one of those white variable voltage supplies you have in the background. I can't find one any higher than 30v/10amp. Don't these heaters draw more than 10 amps at the beginning when firing up?
Most of the ones I've tried pull just on or just under 10A which is why I picked that power supply. If you find one with more power let me know as I've been looking as well. :)
So....what's the point of this thing? Intriguing as it is. It seems that it can't heat air only if it's plumbed into a water circuit. Without the pump it will lock and splutter. So how do you see it being put to use? Cheers :)
In Philadelphia, I interned for a retrofitter of gas and heating oil burners in college. He was on a first name basis was Mr. Beckett of Beckett oil burners in Elyria, Ohio. Basically, diesel/heating oil heats faster than electricity or natural gas. Propane was even slower than natural gas based on the BTU's per Cubic Foot or Cubic Meter. Laugh! The owner would fly all over the country, USA, doing seminars on retrofitting, but refused to think a VCR tape would help. Of course, now we have gone beyond VCR tapes and DVD's to UA-cam videos!
Well, with the water inlet/outlet on the bottom, did you flip the heater over, to purge all the air from it? Otherwise it might expand the air when hot & prevent any real flow.
Capturing the heat from the exhaust from these units definitely seems like the way to go. I feel like a majority of the heat is lost to the exhaust, watching a bunch of different videos of the internals of these heaters shows that there really is not that much surface area in the combustion chamber.
About your last question, the calculation is very simple: 10 liters of water need 10x4.2KJ to heat up one degree. That times 33° increase means 1386KJ in 20 minutes. That means 1155 Joules per second, that means 1155W of heat power (average). Equivalent to a 1000W electric heater approximately.
1155w....... thats a lot of heat to save from the exhaust and this isnt 100 o/o efficient so normally it must exhaust an insane ammount of heat outside..... it makes sense to get as much heat as possible from the exhaust gasses
@@freewheelinfranklyn Actually that gas has a very low density and a very low pressure. Because of the high temperature. So, it does not contain a huge quantity of heat. Of course, it could be harnessed increasing the efficiency of the system. But one shouldn't expect too much from it.
I'm not sure if it's the issue but I saw another video of a gentleman making a diy heat exchanger his first prototype had a very similar issue. The boiling water should build pressure but not with both ends open. He had a term for it but a one way valve on the supply fixed this and pushed water through the outlet. I would love to see if this creates thermosiphon!
Is there a way to turn the fan speed down or off but still have the heater running. Have a water pump pushing water through to heat up the tank. That would be great if you disnt need to run the fan for air heater at the same time?
@@DavidMcLuckie yes I have picked that up after watching more videos. Its seems you just want to turn your water pump on whenever you run the heater. Then just have the water circulate back to the tank. I've watched so many videos now I'm not sure what one I'm commenting now
@David McLuckie are these any good for a boat for hot water in a sink. I'm looking for a alternative rather than a gas geyser. Also to keep it warm. Does the heater have a thermostat on it so when your just using the heater without running the water. So the water doesn't boil over
I calculated that the amount of heat you get in the water is 0.47kWh at full blast. Now this is a bit less than the exhaust heat of 0.5-0.7kWh typical. If you let the exhaust heat go through a BPHE in this way - exhaust pipe going vertically into a bucket/tank/barrel/water butt, then goes into a BPHE vertically, then the other outlet of BPHE coming out of the bucket horizontally or 10 degrees slope to drip out condensation naturally. The whole set up looks like a big L shape inside the tank, do you get it? In that way, you won't even need a pump. A true thermocycle will happen because the heat source itself is inside the tank.
Can you please test this (or the "air only" heater) to heat water using a car HVAC radiator in front of the hot air outlet? (If possible, forcing air through it). Thanks
@@nunyadamnbiznez3522 I would imagine the heater is capable of dealing with "some" restriction on the hot air output since you can run long ducts (Y connection, multiple vents, etc) from it. Assuming that is true, it would be a matter of selecting a radiator that offers "acceptable" air flow restriction. But that is exactly the motivation for the test. Cheers.
please draw! Draw the outlet of the heater connected to a cone shaped duct, growing in diameter to the size of radiator that you want. Maybe a semi truck sized will be enough to offer very little restriction, maybe not, maybe we need two of those side by side... maybe a small car HVAC core is not big enough, maybe it is. Anyone would agree that, at some point, restriction caused by the radiator would be so small that it would be negligible. Maybe at that point the radiator is too big to be fitted on a boat, maybe not. You are the one making hard assumptions here. As I try to explain in my first reply, you can pick a radiator that suits your needs, they come in basically any size and shape imaginable. If your drawing doesnt convince you, draw another cone shaped duct connected to the the other side of the radiator, now reducing the diameter enough to put as big of a blower you think it is necessary, you may just end up with more flow than you began with. When you are satisfied with the drawing, please post it online and share the link here, maybe it will inspire David to do the test.
So it looks like it heats as fast as my little hot water tank which has a 600w immersion heater or 1200w gas heater - so somewhere midway around 900 watts perhaps 1kw allowing for pipe losses
Great video's, have you figured out the maximum hot water temp that can be reached, say even in 50 litres of water, even if time constraints were not important?
Ok I bought the all metal 8kw with remote. I noticed that over time a build up in the burn chamber is there. Question?; is there a product that could be ran though to get rid of it like acetone, laquar thinner, paint thinner, napalm?
Wouldnt it be cool to set up and run 2 water systems at the same time, 1 heated by the heater, 2 heated by egr cooler and see which works better. My money is on the egr cooler.
Hi, you are master of this heater. Do you know what dimension of whell bearing sits in fan of heater ? I mean of opposite way of hot air. Its squeak and i want to change it but do not want to wait for bearing(its take time to order something in shop in norwey) ? Like 607 zz or 600 ? I think you know what i meen
Hey there David can you run a basic experiment on a regular heater running some copper tubing through fins to see if it can heater water while running or something similar maybe even thermosiphon ?
need a back flow ball valve . like in your coffee maker. then it might circulate. the heated water can only escape out one pipe,sucking cool water in the other. like a coffee maker.
I may have a solution for the thermosyphon malfunction. (As described about 2:30 in the video.) I'm drawing on my experience as a retired plumber who has also worked with pumps and thermosiphoning solar heating systems. I think what has happened in your thermosiphoning setup is the water reaches a boiling point and so increases the pressure in the system to the point where the pressure is pushing the water in the cold side of the system back into the tank. The simple solution would be to install a check valve on the cold side tubing, preferably one that has minimal restriction to flow.
if you connected the hoses internally by dropping a coil of copper into the water tank (soft 22mm) will give you the circulation you need the silicone hoses should take up the expansion.
Try to put a check valve on inlet side of heater line. Also, maybe seal off tank a bit, so steam pressure pushes water to cycle. Of course add a pressure relief for safety.
The air flowing over the heat exchanger for the blown heating helps to regulate the units temperature but you may not water continuous hot water so if no water is flowing around this part would the unit overheat and would you need to drain water to stop it from turning to steam which could pressurize your water tank if not vented
@@andrewbartleman9169 That is what i suspected as I have heard that if the power is cut to these so stopping the fan they can overheat even thought it switches the burn off to they need a cool down period before stopping completely
The best way I have seen for people using these heaters in a camper. Is using a outboard motor fuel tank. Because hose detaches so you can fill the tank at the gas station. Not trying to fill the little tank on the heater in the camper / van.
It is sad that this dual use has not become mainstream like the pure air heater. Would it be problematic if used without water? I just bought the 2kw with dual muffler system for $86, including 2day courier fee in Florida. There is no affordable duel water air system in USA available on Amazon. Would've loved it on my sailboat.
OK, I promise to watch the entire video, but for a moment there, I thought we were going to be missing the "Hellooooooo". I mean, that would have been scandalous.
Did you happen to make a video of how to connect all this? I actually have the same unit... And don't want to use the water heater yet. Getting an error message about missing water pump, but instructions don't actually show it being connected to the wire harness. Instructions show it as being only connected to the system via the hoses... So I'm not really sure what my issue is.
@@DavidMcLuckie thank you sir! I actually hooked up the pump and it cleared the error code. Now in the English version of the instructions there doesn't appear to be anything about how to prime the diesel fuel line. Or how to actually start the heater ignition... Did you happen to ever make a video or do you happen to know what the steps are? I'm struggling because everything is in Chinese which doesn't help.. I really really appreciate your help. And I love your videos keep them coming!
BELLOS ATHANASIOS HI...wath is hapening with the water if the heater warks all night and day ? how can you control the temperachure? is the water boil ...or what?
im curious to know how many liters a minute is that water pump. plus how hot is the water coming out of that outlet tube after its heated. so example if i just attach a shower head to it.
I think that pump is 10L per minute. I worked it out that the heat exchanger is heating the water with about 500W of energy. So either a cold shower with good water flow, or a hot shower with little water flow.
Pipes on heater facing up and use at full power please. I think we need a couple of these bad boys working in tandem for the RV winter scene. One for water and air and one switchable between water and engine and also supplying air to the cab????
I did some very rough calculations and found the heat output to be about 1 kw into the water. Not good enough to heat water in an off-grid home. I wish someone would build a diesel heater with a water jacket having a water connection on the top and bottom for a proper thermosiphon. It needs to be rated for 100 psi, be equipped with a temp/pressure safety valve, and have an easy way to clean out the lime build-up. The motherboard needs to have a remote temperature probe that goes on the storage tank to monitor the temp of the water. And no hot-air blowing out. That way it can be used to heat domestic hot water in the summer. This would be ideal for an off-grid house or a camper van or motorhome.
°F = °C × (9/5) + 32 hurts my brain when I try to do it on the fly. Generally I try to remember 20 is room temp and 100 is boiling. Then I guestimate. I calculate that as putting out 2300 watts of heat. My bad I thought it was 20 liters, so half that 1151. A small steam engine could make enough power to run this.
Hi David I had a thought for a video. What about using a turbo intercooler connected to the exhaust with a fan to extract heat. If it works without messing with the air flow, you could put a thermocouple and arduino to control the fan based on heat. Also I seen a water cooler intercooler could be used to extract heat from the heated water. If you wanted
Hi David. Don’t think that this one will work in any situation other than as a overnight camper van heater with a hot water storage tank/ callorifier. Cheers Jim. (Spelling bad).
There are two main problems with using this to heat water. There’s no control of the water temperature and if you turn the pump off the water boils in the heater as you demonstrated. It does seem to be good as you say to preheat your van and engine block but very impractical for van life. 🤔
I think you have touched on what I was searching for in the comments. What happend to the water left in the 2 pipes entering and exiting the heat exchanger, when your just using the heat function. I presume it boils the water off sending boiling water/steam back into the holding tank, plus heating/boiling the standing water back to the pump? Ensuring the pipe work and fittings are capable of handling the possible high water temperature would then be a must. I wonder if anyone has fitted this and what their experience is.
To answer your question at the end: It took 1200 seconds (20 minutes) to heat 10000cm2 (10L) of water 33 degrees (from 17 to 50). That is 330000 calories in 20 minutes, given the specific energy of water (4.18) that equals 1379400 joules in 1200 seconds, so 1149,5 joules in one second. Since a joule equals 1Ws, we can strike out the seconds and there you have it. The power transfered into the water was 1149,5W (on average, it was probably more when the water was colder and becoming less when the water heated up)
Thermosiphons always benefit from increasing the vertical height differences. I realize it was done this way to keep the shot compact, but it is close to the worst layout for a thermosiphon. You are attempting a closed-loop version of the *stack effect* so the siphon force _increases endlessly with height_ until the point where fluid flow friction overwhelms the stack effect. That flow concern also means you should use large diameter tubing/pipes, and keep things like the jug's petcock out of the flow loop. Also, some layouts will not self-start, but will work once something gets an initial flow established. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stack_effect
If you rotate the heating unit so the cold side water input it slightly lower then the hot side output you might be able to get enough convection to circulate the water.
Would love to see what kind of heating time you get (under equivalent conditions) with a combined system that includes your exhaust heat recovery thing. That being said, if I were out camping in the bush I wouldn't mind waiting 20-30 minutes for a batch of hot showering water. There's always plenty of camp chores to fill the time!
It’s to preheat your engine block in the polar region 😅
Add a check valve on inlet and it will work like a coffee maker, no pump needed.
Love your videos.
I appreciate your efforts and time testing.
I was expecting a larger rise in temp of the water jug. Considering the run time of the heater to raise the ambient air temps, I don't see the heater running longer than 20 mins at a time. Meaning you couldn't heat a large volume of coolant.
Over the same period of time using the coolant pump, could you obtain a higher temp in your jug with the EGR cooler on the exhaust gas?
Thanks again
With the inlet and outlet pointing down?? how would it run if the heater was set up on one side as can be done with glow plug at top? Just a thought,, good video Thanks
A side by side comparison would be good. To see if the internal water heater or egr heater generates heat quickest.
This would show if the extra expense for the inbuilt water heater is worth it.
What functions does the control panel have?
Will it turn the pump on?
Does it allow you to run it without the blower running? Example radiant floor heat without forced air?
If you were to run liquid only would it be thermostatically controlled?
If you had it hooked up to water and ran it in forced air mode without pumping water, would this damage the unit?
My idea would be to use it in a van for both Forced air heat and or radiant floor heat, one, the other or both simultaneously
Heater on and off, heater output level 1-5 and pump on off control.
The fan that blows the hot air is on the same motor as the fan that supplies forced air into the burn chamber. So it cannot be turned off. Without the pump running it'll happily boil whatever is in the heat exchanger.
@MartyGras - a tankless propane water heater would do what you want
Please do a test with your EGR cooler & pump to get maximum efficiency, looks like a setup I would like to use for a van build.
Great test, thx for the clips!
Could u try the blower on its side like ig it was mounted to a wall
So the hot pipes up top
That's what it needs. Any position where the hot side doesn't go down first will work.
Was thinking that , as I know the eberspachers work on their side
The first 6 inches of pipe head south this is no good .
Best keep that glow plug on the high side if you go testing different mounting positions ;) kidding of course.
@@nunyadamnbiznez3522 there is no "right side up" for these units.
Really interesting, do you think this could be used in a van to heat water for a shower? Use a copper water tank.
Cheers dave
Yep im gonna use the egr style heater for my water tank, I want warm showers! And it'll keep my tank from freezing.
thomas barlow is the water coming off the heater warm enough to shower with without a reservoir to recirculate the water?
@@DavidGalle1 @thomas barlow I was asking myself the same question, is the flew of the water going out enough hot to handle a 2L/mn flew of water for showering?
@@thomasbarlow4223 I was asking myself, is the flew of the water going out enoughly hot to handle a 2L/mn flew of enough hot water for showering?
Hi Daved, I have used this same system using a small log burner in my workshop with great results I think for it to Thermosiphon efficiently you need the water in the "jug" to be lower than the feed pipe coming from the heater, otherwise you are adding pressure that will hold back the rising heat. Reduce the amount of water below the pipe and I bet you will get it to circulate, ..."RETEST"...
Ps.. Also put the heater on it's side with the cold return on the bottom. 👍🏻
Put the hot water return at the bottom and the cold outlet at the top. The hot water rising from the bottom will cycle the cold water through the heater. For this to work you'll also need the system to be full of water obviously, or at least have both hoses under the water line inside the tank.
Looking good for my greenhouse, 2 radiator set up🌴🌴🌻👍
I don't think the pipes going down first is an issue (other than creating a small height difference between them), its all about pressure difference. It doesn't matter where the pipes go, just where they end up. Think of siphoning a liquid out of a container using a hose, it goes up first but still works.
What will matter much more is the height difference between the heater and the tank, the pressure difference between the water inlet and outlet of the heater should be proportional to this height difference. And flow rate will be proportional to this pressure difference (possibly not a linear relationship?).
I have a question so does this have to continuously run to keep the coolant warm........
Like for instance would you be in let's say your truck's bunk trying to sleep in the fiery pits of hell why'll still trying to keep your engine coolant warm.......
If that is the case I think it would be better off installing two separate systems.
Yes. You have correctly identified one of the major drawbacks with this version. I'm sure others would suggest opening a window, but that's just wasting heat and fuel.
@@DavidMcLuckie yeah think I would stick with just the bunk heater and spend the extra $150 for a Chinese diesel coolant .
Interesting, would like to see follow up experiment like this: 1) Use the diesel water&air heater to pre-heat the water 2) use egr cooler on the exhaust output directly under the heater to further heat the water. 3) put the heater on max 5 setting from start, not 3. Always possible to turn down the heat later :)
Depending on the water heatex design, it might siphon if the heater is mounted sideways. Basically the line from the heat source must only travel upwards to siphon.
I was going to make this point. The inlet and the outlet of the heat source need to be at different heights to allow the siphon to start.
This is the first video I have seen of yours where I saw your face. I kind of enjoyed the mystery. I used to imagine you're a crazy scotsman inventor type.
Have you actually watched any others? He fronts in a number of them and has his full photo on his channel icon.
Yeah, I'm not Ave. It's literally my photo for the channel icon. :)
HEY DAVID !!! GOOD VIDEO BUT !! What did the maker of the heater intend to use the hot water for ?? Was it to heat water in an engine block? or for RV use ?
It's listed as a parking heater. I expect they meant it for defrosting a vehicle and heating the coolant.
David McLuckie I wonder in which location this could be installed in an SUV for instance, to tap in to the engine coolant lines. All existing engine coolant parking heaters are always installed in the engine bay not in the cabin.
40-42c is the perfect temp for having a shower, so if you turned it on in the morning inside your camper van, make a cup of tea and after 20min turn the water pump off and then have a separate pump to a shower head and taps you can enjoy a lovely hot shower.
I am curious iff you put the EGR in line what the water temp rising will be.
But the thing that i am most curious about is when you dont pump water for a longer time. Will the steam pressure be high? So will it boil the shit out of the EGR cooler and heater water system.
Witch is more efficient on it's own the heater and water combo or a separate 5KW heater and the EGR cooler.
I am building a stealth camper van within a year and looking to use this heater for shower water maybe.
Greetz from holland!
Hey David, been looking for one of those white variable voltage supplies you have in the background. I can't find one any higher than 30v/10amp. Don't these heaters draw more than 10 amps at the beginning when firing up?
Most of the ones I've tried pull just on or just under 10A which is why I picked that power supply. If you find one with more power let me know as I've been looking as well. :)
@@DavidMcLuckie Hi David, I have a link for one that does 30amps but youtube wont let me add the link.
Brilliant! I want one on these! Greetings from Italy!
So....what's the point of this thing? Intriguing as it is.
It seems that it can't heat air only if it's plumbed into a water circuit. Without the pump it will lock and splutter.
So how do you see it being put to use?
Cheers :)
In Philadelphia, I interned for a retrofitter of gas and heating oil burners in college. He was on a first name basis was Mr. Beckett of Beckett oil burners in Elyria, Ohio. Basically, diesel/heating oil heats faster than electricity or natural gas. Propane was even slower than natural gas based on the BTU's per Cubic Foot or Cubic Meter.
Laugh! The owner would fly all over the country, USA, doing seminars on retrofitting, but refused to think a VCR tape would help.
Of course, now we have gone beyond VCR tapes and DVD's to UA-cam videos!
Well, with the water inlet/outlet on the bottom, did you flip the heater over, to purge all the air from it? Otherwise it might expand the air when hot & prevent any real flow.
Capturing the heat from the exhaust from these units definitely seems like the way to go. I feel like a majority of the heat is lost to the exhaust, watching a bunch of different videos of the internals of these heaters shows that there really is not that much surface area in the combustion chamber.
About your last question, the calculation is very simple: 10 liters of water need 10x4.2KJ to heat up one degree. That times 33° increase means 1386KJ in 20 minutes. That means 1155 Joules per second, that means 1155W of heat power (average). Equivalent to a 1000W electric heater approximately.
1155w....... thats a lot of heat to save from the exhaust and this isnt 100 o/o efficient so normally it must exhaust an insane ammount of heat outside..... it makes sense to get as much heat as possible from the exhaust gasses
@@freewheelinfranklyn Actually that gas has a very low density and a very low pressure. Because of the high temperature. So, it does not contain a huge quantity of heat. Of course, it could be harnessed increasing the efficiency of the system. But one shouldn't expect too much from it.
I'm not sure if it's the issue but I saw another video of a gentleman making a diy heat exchanger his first prototype had a very similar issue. The boiling water should build pressure but not with both ends open. He had a term for it but a one way valve on the supply fixed this and pushed water through the outlet. I would love to see if this creates thermosiphon!
Is there a way to turn the fan speed down or off but still have the heater running. Have a water pump pushing water through to heat up the tank. That would be great if you disnt need to run the fan for air heater at the same time?
The blower fan is on the same motor as the combustion fan. So you have to have hot air and water at the same time.
@@DavidMcLuckie yes I have picked that up after watching more videos. Its seems you just want to turn your water pump on whenever you run the heater. Then just have the water circulate back to the tank. I've watched so many videos now I'm not sure what one I'm commenting now
David, maybe you could try with the unit turned 90 degrees? might make the water want to flow in one direction more?
That will be coming in further tests.
great video we have one fitted in the house heats a big room for 120 euros for 4 months come on at 7.30 till 11.00
Hi David, do you recommend these things?
Pumped through the EFR will be awesome 😎.. love ya vids 👍👍👍
It's fun to watch (hear) John Cleese test a Chinese diesel heater :) Also, nice video series. Thumbs up.
@David McLuckie are these any good for a boat for hot water in a sink. I'm looking for a alternative rather than a gas geyser. Also to keep it warm. Does the heater have a thermostat on it so when your just using the heater without running the water. So the water doesn't boil over
The water would eventually boil. But as long as you don't use a closed system it wouldn't be a problem.
I calculated that the amount of heat you get in the water is 0.47kWh at full blast. Now this is a bit less than the exhaust heat of 0.5-0.7kWh typical. If you let the exhaust heat go through a BPHE in this way - exhaust pipe going vertically into a bucket/tank/barrel/water butt, then goes into a BPHE vertically, then the other outlet of BPHE coming out of the bucket horizontally or 10 degrees slope to drip out condensation naturally. The whole set up looks like a big L shape inside the tank, do you get it? In that way, you won't even need a pump. A true thermocycle will happen because the heat source itself is inside the tank.
Can you please test this (or the "air only" heater) to heat water using a car HVAC radiator in front of the hot air outlet? (If possible, forcing air through it). Thanks
@paial - direct the air through an auto heater core
@@nunyadamnbiznez3522 I would imagine the heater is capable of dealing with "some" restriction on the hot air output since you can run long ducts (Y connection, multiple vents, etc) from it. Assuming that is true, it would be a matter of selecting a radiator that offers "acceptable" air flow restriction. But that is exactly the motivation for the test. Cheers.
please draw! Draw the outlet of the heater connected to a cone shaped duct, growing in diameter to the size of radiator that you want. Maybe a semi truck sized will be enough to offer very little restriction, maybe not, maybe we need two of those side by side... maybe a small car HVAC core is not big enough, maybe it is. Anyone would agree that, at some point, restriction caused by the radiator would be so small that it would be negligible. Maybe at that point the radiator is too big to be fitted on a boat, maybe not. You are the one making hard assumptions here. As I try to explain in my first reply, you can pick a radiator that suits your needs, they come in basically any size and shape imaginable. If your drawing doesnt convince you, draw another cone shaped duct connected to the the other side of the radiator, now reducing the diameter enough to put as big of a blower you think it is necessary, you may just end up with more flow than you began with. When you are satisfied with the drawing, please post it online and share the link here, maybe it will inspire David to do the test.
So it looks like it heats as fast as my little hot water tank which has a 600w immersion heater or 1200w gas heater - so somewhere midway around 900 watts perhaps 1kw allowing for pipe losses
you need a separated catch can. cold water elevated , hot can below heater.
Great video's, have you figured out the maximum hot water temp that can be reached, say even in 50 litres of water, even if time constraints were not important?
Is the heat exchanger effective enough to be used as an on-demand water heater?
No. Well not unless you either want mildy warm water, or really slow how water I'm afraid.
I wonder if the exhausted air leaks to the water, can still the water be drunken ? Would it be poisoned with chemical ?!
Wait, can you put the heater on its side? Meaning the inlet will be below the outlet?
Ok I bought the all metal 8kw with remote. I noticed that over time a build up in the burn chamber is there. Question?; is there a product that could be ran though to get rid of it like acetone, laquar thinner, paint thinner, napalm?
I have a couple of Chinese heaters but I don’t seam to be able to find this air/water one and would like to know where I can get it
The link is in the description.
Great vid. How much diesel do you think it used to get these results.
Wouldnt it be cool to set up and run 2 water systems at the same time, 1 heated by the heater, 2 heated by egr cooler and see which works better. My money is on the egr cooler.
Hi, you are master of this heater. Do you know what dimension of whell bearing sits in fan of heater ? I mean of opposite way of hot air. Its squeak and i want to change it but do not want to wait for bearing(its take time to order something in shop in norwey) ? Like 607 zz or 600 ? I think you know what i meen
16x5x5mm 625Z
@@DavidMcLuckie thanks
I love the piston head to support the water pump.
Hey there David can you run a basic experiment on a regular heater running some copper tubing through fins to see if it can heater water while running or something similar maybe even thermosiphon ?
need a back flow ball valve . like in your coffee maker. then it might circulate. the heated water can only escape out one pipe,sucking cool water in the other. like a coffee maker.
I may have a solution for the thermosyphon malfunction. (As described about 2:30 in the video.) I'm
drawing on my experience as a retired plumber who has also worked with pumps and thermosiphoning solar heating systems. I think what has happened in your thermosiphoning setup is the water reaches a boiling point and so increases the pressure in the system to the point where the pressure is pushing the water in the cold side of the system back into the tank. The simple solution would be to install a check valve on the cold side tubing, preferably one that has minimal restriction to flow.
I also wonder what would happen if you raised the reservoir higher, say 6 in or so. But the check valve is a must.
I think that to thermo siphon it would be best to put the heater sideways to create a difference between the two pipes on the heater.
if you connected the hoses internally by dropping a coil of copper into the water tank (soft 22mm) will give you the circulation you need the silicone hoses should take up the expansion.
Hi. Does the heater need to be the way you have it sat or could be face say 90 degrees up or down? So heated air hits ceiling or floor?
I've looked at the burn chamber. If you point the heater hot end up, you shouldn't have any diesel leaks.
I think it is supposed to work like the alde system ,,,,radiator heating in your campervan.
Interesting.
Do you think you could run a shower off this unit in a van or would it only really be good for a hot water Tap in the bathroom or kitchen
No, best a either heating storage water or the vehicle coolant system.
@@DavidMcLuckie THNKS mate im loving your vids man , buy boy you get some rain up ther man you hear it belting down all the time
*David McLuckie* Excellent video man, could you please share the link to where you bought this? Thank you!
Try to put a check valve on inlet side of heater line. Also, maybe seal off tank a bit, so steam pressure pushes water to cycle. Of course add a pressure relief for safety.
The air flowing over the heat exchanger for the blown heating helps to regulate the units temperature but you may not water continuous hot water so if no water is flowing around this part would the unit overheat and would you need to drain water to stop it from turning to steam which could pressurize your water tank if not vented
@@andrewbartleman9169 That is what i suspected as I have heard that if the power is cut to these so stopping the fan they can overheat even thought it switches the burn off to they need a cool down period before stopping completely
Lol it's always raining in your videos. Love them tho!
The best way I have seen for people using these heaters in a camper. Is using a outboard motor fuel tank. Because hose detaches so you can fill the tank at the gas station. Not trying to fill the little tank on the heater in the camper / van.
That's a great solution.
i believe if the vent is closed it will circulate better thermally without additional water pump
can that heater be mounted on it's side? that might enable thermo syphon?
From my experience, I have found that 2 feet higher from the heat source works well.
Would it be possible to turn the heater on its side, such that the hot pipe was on top and the cold return on the bottom ?
I the olden days hot water used to rise upwards, try putting the heat source in the bottom and take the cold from the top.
Thanks crazy Dave. 🤣👍🏼👌🏻 You answered everything I wanted to know.
Im positive thermosiphon can work with this heater as they work using solar heater from the sun ..they have to be entirely bled air tight
Was the waterpump hooked up and controlled via the heater controlpanel ?
Yes, but not for the thermosiphon test.
What is that sound on your roof like pigeons walking over the roof. Was it raining outside, or it was just feral cats and stray birds on the roof.
There is a chance of all three. Birds stomping, rain, sticks and leaves from the trees.
It is sad that this dual use has not become mainstream like the pure air heater. Would it be problematic if used without water? I just bought the 2kw with dual muffler system for $86, including 2day courier fee in Florida. There is no affordable duel water air system in USA available on Amazon. Would've loved it on my sailboat.
David, Maybe I can use a 30m length of 5mm copper pipe with a small pump to recover heat from a wrap coil around the exhaust?
OK, I promise to watch the entire video, but for a moment there, I thought we were going to be missing the "Hellooooooo". I mean, that would have been scandalous.
I forgot to edit the first few seconds.
Did you happen to make a video of how to connect all this? I actually have the same unit... And don't want to use the water heater yet. Getting an error message about missing water pump, but instructions don't actually show it being connected to the wire harness. Instructions show it as being only connected to the system via the hoses... So I'm not really sure what my issue is.
Yes, the pump has to be attached to the main loom for the system to work. There should be a plug for it.
@@DavidMcLuckie thank you sir! I actually hooked up the pump and it cleared the error code. Now in the English version of the instructions there doesn't appear to be anything about how to prime the diesel fuel line. Or how to actually start the heater ignition... Did you happen to ever make a video or do you happen to know what the steps are? I'm struggling because everything is in Chinese which doesn't help..
I really really appreciate your help. And I love your videos keep them coming!
If memory serves me you push and hold the knob and it activates the fuel pump until you let go of the knob. I think.
@@DavidMcLuckie I'll give it another try. Thank you sir!
Awesome!! Thanks pal!! Really interesting video as always !!
BELLOS ATHANASIOS
HI...wath is hapening with the water if the heater warks all night and day ?
how can you control the temperachure? is the water boil ...or what?
If the water gets hot enough it will boil. Not really meant for long run times without the hot water having some way of dissipating the heat.
Possibly insulate the water tank? Great video, very informative.
im curious to know how many liters a minute is that water pump. plus how hot is the water coming out of that outlet tube after its heated. so example if i just attach a shower head to it.
I think that pump is 10L per minute. I worked it out that the heat exchanger is heating the water with about 500W of energy. So either a cold shower with good water flow, or a hot shower with little water flow.
@@DavidMcLuckie brilliant thank you David. the pump i will be using will be 5L a minute so the water should be pretty hot im guessing
Truly amazing.
You say there's not enough flow but if I look it right the water crane is on close position... ?? Tell me if I,m wrong
You are wrong.
Pipes on heater facing up and use at full power please. I think we need a couple of these bad boys working in tandem for the RV winter scene. One for water and air and one switchable between water and engine and also supplying air to the cab????
Can you test the 5kw heater and see what car monoxide the exhaust is chucking out on low etc and see where the best burn is for co🙂
Try a washing machine external one way valve, this may start the auto water cycle.
It would have probably pumped by convection if there was a check valve in it. The old heater hose engine heaters had one.
So is this 1.1Kw of heat generation for the water?
I did some very rough calculations and found the heat output to be about 1 kw into the water. Not good enough to heat water in an off-grid home. I wish someone would build a diesel heater with a water jacket having a water connection on the top and bottom for a proper thermosiphon. It needs to be rated for 100 psi, be equipped with a temp/pressure safety valve, and have an easy way to clean out the lime build-up. The motherboard needs to have a remote temperature probe that goes on the storage tank to monitor the temp of the water. And no hot-air blowing out. That way it can be used to heat domestic hot water in the summer. This would be ideal for an off-grid house or a camper van or motorhome.
Thank you. That's about what I worked it out as.
°F = °C × (9/5) + 32 hurts my brain when I try to do it on the fly. Generally I try to remember 20 is room temp and 100 is boiling. Then I guestimate. I calculate that as putting out 2300 watts of heat. My bad I thought it was 20 liters, so half that 1151. A small steam engine could make enough power to run this.
Helou sunt din România și doresc sa cumpăr și eu asa ceva ,mă interesează ce consum de carburant are pe ora, cât consuma el .
Hi David I had a thought for a video. What about using a turbo intercooler connected to the exhaust with a fan to extract heat. If it works without messing with the air flow, you could put a thermocouple and arduino to control the fan based on heat. Also I seen a water cooler intercooler could be used to extract heat from the heated water. If you wanted
I've got an old intercooler for this purpose. Just haven't welded a pipe and flange onto it yet.
It would also be interesting to see if you could run one of these on new veggie/rape/olive oil as well as WVU... Any chance you could give it a go?
Does it work always heating also the water or there is the function that allows to heat just the air ??
Other than letting it boil the water out it's always doing both.
Does the chines diesel heater have a thermostat and can you wire it up to an external thermostat to put in the water jug??
This one doesn't.
Remove the dip the the lower pipe, your fighting gravity again.
what type of flir thermal imaging app are you using? can it be used on a normal smart phone?
Normal smartphone with a Flir One attached.
Hi David. Don’t think that this one will work in any situation other than as a overnight camper van heater with a hot water storage tank/ callorifier. Cheers Jim. (Spelling bad).
There are two main problems with using this to heat water.
There’s no control of the water temperature and if you turn the pump off the water boils in the heater as you demonstrated.
It does seem to be good as you say to preheat your van and engine block but very impractical for van life. 🤔
I think you have touched on what I was searching for in the comments.
What happend to the water left in the 2 pipes entering and exiting the heat exchanger, when your just using the heat function.
I presume it boils the water off sending boiling water/steam back into the holding tank, plus heating/boiling the standing water back to the pump?
Ensuring the pipe work and fittings are capable of handling the possible high water temperature would then be a must.
I wonder if anyone has fitted this and what their experience is.
This may be a daft question but could I run a radiator from this?
You certainly could. But I'd use a vented header tank just to give the expanding gas somewhere to go.