As you say Insulate the tank. Personally, I'd run glycol in the tank strip off their thermostatic valve and let straight glycol circulate through a plate heat exchanger with the other side going to your mixer tap. It keeps the water separate from the glycol - but then you could also heat the glycol with a plate heat exchanger to the engine coolant to preheat when driving, and could use the glycol circuit for underfloor heating / airmatrix
This is such a cool video I was planning on getting one of those propane water heaters for the RV but there's a lot of reviews that say they catch on fire so this is really nice thank you
I just checked the relative specific heat capacities of water and ethylene glycol mixtures. You are right to use mostly water if there is no freezing risk as it has a higher specific heat capacity thus storing more heat in the tank for any given temperature.
I have the same tmv on my van and it's shit. Keeps trying to adjust it and eventually it stops moving altogether. I agree with removing it and having a mixer tap instead. I know why it's on the for health and safety rubbish but sell it to people that have common sense and remove it lol
Break into your coolant lines and add a radiator with a fan… set the fan to activate at say 65* and cut off at 62* that way the heater can stay lit all the time and the extra heat can be used to warm up said van. Cutting in and out would be sore on leisure battery’s as we know.
I thought of the same thing , installing radiator with a fan (which would be activated with min/max ambient air temps) this would make you heat your air while always have hot water ready. Could maybe even tap in the coolant line a Thermostatic valve with underfloor circuit. best of all worlds.
Helloooo..... Question: I have a chinese 5KW diesel heater since one week. Until today everything goes well. But now it doesen't work. In the display is the fault code 09. Think is the sensor.... I looked for the contacts an cabels, and I can't see any fault. Everyhing looks fine. What could it be? Is it posible the heater runs without the sensor? How can I see it when the sensor is defect? Thanks and best wishes.
Make shure that your mixer can withstand that hot water temperature. Normally the warm water line is only supposed to be 65°C MAX, lower if it's intended for schools or hospitals to minimize the burn risk.
On my system I have a TTC with a plate heat exchanger and two 5kw silencio heater matrix fans. I have now put a thermostat on the input water and output water of the Webasto, you need to time the start of your shower and make sure that the output temp is on 70 dregs C and then use the water. You also turn off the fans. I have a small radiator as a thermal store. With a strategy you can, by having short reheat breaks, have Continuous hot water. We have a thermostatic mixer and it seems to work fine. You have to know how to use it!
David, for your van get yourself one of the showerheads with the stone balls in them. I got an ebay copy one for my van and it revolutionised showers in mine. Its still got pressure but, uses loads less water. Rather than running a flow restrictor.
@@jaycee1736 I just typed stone ball shower head into ebay and clicked on the cheapest one, A - cos all the cheap ones appear to be the same. B - cos I'm Scottish and have a "tight" reputation to live upto 🤣
Hi grate idea can this also be used in an off grid situation.to say suppliment the hot water in the house in the winter months. I.e , connect the hot water heaters output to a solar hot water pv Evacuated type and dump this into a insulated hot water tank. For a large hot water storage system. Keep up the good work.
We've all waited at the tap for hot water, then spent time adjusting it, before spending 20 seconds washing our freezing hands. For winter use with really cold water supply, you can preheat your cold fresh water tank to the summertime cold water temperature, and then run that lukewarm water through your Lava heater. Then you can wash your hands with warm water in the winter without actually turning on the heater each time. It would take a little more plumbing bits, but it's fantastic. Side story, I once took a wonderful tour of the Middle East with a hundred of my best friends, and in Kuwait the hot water heaters never turn on, because the water towers have been baking in 133F/56C air all day. Most people took showers in the early morning.
Testing should be done without the thermostatic valve to check efficiency of the plate heat exchanger. Heat transfer definitely drops when the temperature gradient drops. Good video though. It would be pretty cool to use the coolant loop for hydronic heating also.
Have you tried wrapping a small copper tube around the exhaust pipe then wrapping a thick layer of insulation over the copper tube. This water line goes in the supply port. Preheating the water by Salvaging the exhaust heat.
Where in the loop would I hook up a radiator? Ideally it'd be part of the coolant loop and have nothing to do with the fresh water. I wonder what kind of heating performance you could get out of say a couple heater cores in parallel
Why not putting it in a shower loop? The water should not cool down to much, while its running down on you and thus the little reheating while running through the heater should be enough to sustain the water temperatur.
Can you put a on off simple switch or a smart thermostatic switch instead of 2 step oem switch? I can see there are a lot of wires entering in the switch.
Could you not use a car egr cooler to try and recover some of the lost exhaust heat ? I have used an egr cooler and managed to recover a fair bit of exhaust heat by plumbing it straight to the webasto exhaust and directly into the hot water output from the webasto heater.
How many liters are the heat exchanger ? 5 Liter? 10 Liter? of are the heat exchanger that effective, that it doesn't need that many meters of tubing? I've got a instant water heater that is 10L and runs on lpg/gas. And the water is warm after just running it a few seconds. and After running it for a few minutes, it holds the water warm for several minutes, so it's esentually a water tank, without burning the gas. I noticed you calculated the Lava to hold enough heat for substantially longer while than many minutes - if you install a flow restrictor though. But that its amazing
I wonder if they put something to absorb alot of heat in the cooling tank, that it would retain enough to keep the temp up.. That way the burner wouldn't go that often into standby mode.. The problem is temp falling to fast when cold water goes thru it.... And I guess the burner would need alot of service being that it goes on and off all the time, and the diesel would clogg the chamber pretty fast... Idk, just thinking while I'm tierd 😂
You should pass this on to Lavaner, just run the exhaust into the tank and in a second heat exchanger to put the exhaust heat into the coolant too. Also keep your pump handy, imagine pumping clean pure Scottish stream water for a nice hot and Loooonnnggg Shower :)
Would it not have just been better with a really well insulated plate exchanger, not too sure how the tank being filled helps the process. In my mind that would draw heat away from the plate exchanger. If however its a single plate(coil) exchanger on the clean water side and the tank is being used as a header, then that would make a bit more sense??
I’m thinking of using this for my window cleaning round with pole, I currently use a lpg heater like your contra video,but don’t like carrying gas bottle in back of van, I’m having trouble how these work, do they heat the stainless box first than, and diesel heater comes on and off to top the stainless box when it drops in temp ?,so could I I preheat the stainless box driving to work let’s say, than when I connect my window cleaning hose via a 12 v pump it would provide me with instant hot water on demand, if so does the 12v pump need constantly to preheat the stainless box or can it be done without ? Thanks
The heater heats the coolant in the tank to about 70-80ºC. Then you pump your water through the heat exchanger which takes the heat from the coolant. The heater then cycles between low and high to keep this temperature, but will eventually turn off at 87ºC I think.
@@DavidMcLuckie thanks for the reply, do u know if they have a built in frost stat, and will auto come on if the weather goes below zero ? Great videos by the way
Hm... A cheap propane camping heater is instant and takes about 20 seconds to get hot water, no need to plan/wait 10 minutes and has worked great for us. We had it mounted on the outside of the RV when parked and added a hot and cold garden spigot to the ouside of the RV to create the inlet and outlet to the hot system using pex slip on Ts and sharkbite garden hose spigot valves. I think this heater would be good for radiant hydronic flooring and if you could add a radiator to get some air heat it might be able to heat a whole small house. What is the fuel consumption for one hour or for example 2 hrs every 6 hrs = 8 hrs running total a day? I assume similar to a normal diesel heater.
this product is no longer available. Larger insulated water tank, have exhaust heat exchanger built into the tank with stainless tubing 360 dec loop to reduce back pressure on the exhaust.
The 2kw or the 5kw water heaters are no longer available on Allie express also the Lavaner website says they are not available and there seems to be no available info as to why. Do you have any information if Lavaner is discontinuing their water heaters.
Discontinuing no. Limited available of electronics yes. Best shot is messaging Craig on their Facebook page - facebook.com/Lavaner-Pro-Diesel-Heater-106624824474845
You could redesign the electrical circuit to bypass the cool down cycle by using a water flow detection input to a relay to bypass the thermal detection shut down cycle while there is water flowing through the system. Essentially making it a "On Demand" unit. This would give you unlimited 2KW heat to your shower and eliminating the need for a flow reduction in your shower head and it probably would mix better in your mixing valve as well. Better yet you should do away with the mixing valve altogether and just mix it at the tap with cold water to temper the hot water. The water lines from the Lava should be plumbed into the hot water lines anyway. You could also run the exhaust snaking through the coolant tank to make it heat up quicker (albeit you would need to open the tank up and route the pipes through and then re-weld the tank.) You could also have the flow detection turn on the unit as well so you would not need to manually turn it on. You could run this through the on/off switch so you could turn it off manually when not in use.
As you mention a strategy is required to get the best out of this for a half decent shower. A 2kw direct water heater without heat storage could really only heat approx 1.1LPM of water by +25C without any heat stored in the system. After the energy stored in the heat exchanger, glycol & tank has cooled down that’s effectively the energy you have to heater the water. Most home electric showers are now minimum 10kW to get a half decent shower ( in winter) I remember the original 6kw electric showers they were pretty pathetic even in summer with warmer water supply. This is borne out by the figures 4.5LPM at +35C requires 11kW. How does the Alde caravan system work, does it have greater output or more hot water storage?
I see the reason for the thermostatic mixer at that section of the pipework. John Guest fitting is only rated at 65C/150F at 6 Bar/90 psi.(usually JG 12mm pipe is used in the vast majority of modern campervans/motor homes) If this is heating water at 74C it could blow the hot water pipe. I have no idea if reducing the water pressure allows an increase in the working of the temperature of JG pipe??
It does. Hence used in central heating systems after the first few feet of copper from the boiler. At 20ºC it'll take 12BAR, 65ºC 6BAR, 82ºC 3BAR. So the FloJet pump in our van was 3ish BAR and the water in our tank was around 85ºC. It'll take higher temps for short durations.
The global supply crisis mostly. It's not a hugely popular model, so until supply shortages stop happening the diesel air heaters take priority. You could send Craig a message on their Facebook page.
So, Why havent Lavaner utillized the exhaust also. I actually expected them to do this, being different from everybody else. Might we expect a version 2 of this?
Great video, thanks! Looking forward to the followup. I like your efficiency improvement ideas, especially insulating the tank. Although you didn't mention it I'm assuming you'll insulate the exhaust heat exchanger too.
I'm looking at using a couple of Webasto units for heating, rather than a central heating boiler. On the Webasto spec it says heat output is 5.2kW on high and 2.5kW on low, with fuel consumption of 0.59 and 0.30 litres per hour accordingly. Now if diesel has a calorific value of 10.0 to 10.7 kWh/litre (values off various sites via Google) and you use the higher value, the conversion is about 82% efficient which is good for a small oil boiler. Larger ones up in the 90s. So I think that gives roughly 1kW out the exhaust, which seems fair. I think the setup had more losses than expected with the uninsulated tank. Such a system would of course perform better with more primary storage, but recovering at least some of the lost heat from the exhaust should help massively. You really do need a TMV though, as the flow temperature could be 80°C, enough for serious injury. You did say you had a thermostatic shower mixer.
I'm going to revisit my measurements on the power rating. As I think Webasto are measuring a heater running at full burn and not from start to finish as I did. Good point about the mixer preventing a scalding injury. Perhaps I could replace it with a non-adjustable version for safety.
@@DavidMcLuckie valid point that, measuring fuel efficiency over a full cycle versus a snippet of a steady state condition. Regarding the TMV, I think it probably did a better job than your measurements showed due to the losses of being outdoors. I did some tests using a baby bath as the bulk water container and it was surprising how much heat loss there was even with the slightest breeze.
For that purpose they are good. The hot air is practically as good as any other heater and the water heater side is ok for preheating coolant. The water heater side is about 1kw of heating power on a good day. :)
Looking forward to your experiments with the egr cooler. Also, this might be a bit of a nightmare to build… using a normal diesel air heater, an egr cooler, a heat exchanger, tank and pump…. do you think the diesel “air” heater could heat enough water for a short shower? “If you build it, we will watch!” Thank you for all the information and entertainment!
I would love to see a video of the added on heater[exhaust] exchanger working, and see how much more efficient it becomes. That said, in my usage case of living full time in my Skoolie, with 6 persons using the hot water heater for showers, I think that the propane on demand heater is the best option, as it is instantaneous and last the whole time you shower. However... using this as a hot water heating system for your floors, THERE is a definite use there for that! Thanks for the honest review! Great job!
Great video. So you can't run the thing on full blast the whole time with a water temperature of 40c. That is a shame. That what I would do, is take my time and fill a big tank with heated water and shower with that instead so you don't have to wait for the water to heat up again.
Hi Jaap. People can start to take the shower when the heated temp of coolant reached to 48 degrees centigrade , which means the all in one heater will work at full power(5KW) all the time, this will make the water temperature keep high enough, no need to wait until the heater went to standby mode at 74 degrees centigrade! For supplying the hot water on demand, you need to have a big water tank!
@@lavaner-WeManufactureComfort okay thanks. Hey and when are there your products available? It is out of stock for a while now. I would like to have the all in one portable heater.
@@lavaner-WeManufactureComfort hi we already had contact via email. Maybe you can remember me. I am from the Netherlands. You told me that you would contact me when the heater is available again.
Needs to be smaller for a campervan, even my modest 6m van. As you say, exhaust heat is a big waste. These vids do a great job of driving innovation. I'll stick to My Hozelock and gas powered kettle, it works. Great video. Would love to see vids of your campervan. 👍
@@DavidMcLuckie just saying, wood fired stoves, electric & gas. Suporising how many vanlifer get their hot water from a kettle. Maybe one of those gas powered instant hot water boilers that get put on the inside of the back door. I wonder if they could be boxed in a vetted through the back door? They are fairly cheap.
As you say Insulate the tank. Personally, I'd run glycol in the tank strip off their thermostatic valve and let straight glycol circulate through a plate heat exchanger with the other side going to your mixer tap. It keeps the water separate from the glycol - but then you could also heat the glycol with a plate heat exchanger to the engine coolant to preheat when driving, and could use the glycol circuit for underfloor heating / airmatrix
Same water heater as some top end motors... eg landrover, jaguar etc... Great vid 👌 love tinkering with stuff.😆 stay safe 🏴
This is such a cool video I was planning on getting one of those propane water heaters for the RV but there's a lot of reviews that say they catch on fire so this is really nice thank you
I just checked the relative specific heat capacities of water and ethylene glycol mixtures. You are right to use mostly water if there is no freezing risk as it has a higher specific heat capacity thus storing more heat in the tank for any given temperature.
I have the same tmv on my van and it's shit. Keeps trying to adjust it and eventually it stops moving altogether. I agree with removing it and having a mixer tap instead. I know why it's on the for health and safety rubbish but sell it to people that have common sense and remove it lol
Break into your coolant lines and add a radiator with a fan… set the fan to activate at say 65* and cut off at 62* that way the heater can stay lit all the time and the extra heat can be used to warm up said van. Cutting in and out would be sore on leisure battery’s as we know.
I thought of the same thing , installing radiator with a fan (which would be activated with min/max ambient air temps) this would make you heat your air while always have hot water ready.
Could maybe even tap in the coolant line a Thermostatic valve with underfloor circuit. best of all worlds.
I’m a minimalist
Diesel heaters are a game changer.
This thing is antithetical for me.
I've just made one of these I'm well pleased ,I made a few changes but definitely couldnt of done it without this fantastic video . Your a genius
Helloooo..... Question: I have a chinese 5KW diesel heater since one week. Until today everything goes well. But now it doesen't work. In the display is the fault code 09. Think is the sensor.... I looked for the contacts an cabels, and I can't see any fault. Everyhing looks fine.
What could it be? Is it posible the heater runs without the sensor? How can I see it when the sensor is defect?
Thanks and best wishes.
If you have a multimeter you could unplug the sensor and take a resistance reading, should be between 800 - 1500 ohms.
A big "Helloooo" and thank you for your quick tip....
Make shure that your mixer can withstand that hot water temperature. Normally the warm water line is only supposed to be 65°C MAX, lower if it's intended for schools or hospitals to minimize the burn risk.
Have you ever came across a heater that can use cooking oil?
I have not. It doesn't make for a great fuel in these kind of heaters.
On my system I have a TTC with a plate heat exchanger and two 5kw silencio heater matrix fans. I have now put a thermostat on the input water and output water of the Webasto, you need to time the start of your shower and make sure that the output temp is on 70 dregs C and then use the water. You also turn off the fans. I have a small radiator as a thermal store. With a strategy you can, by having short reheat breaks, have Continuous hot water. We have a thermostatic mixer and it seems to work fine. You have to know how to use it!
David, for your van get yourself one of the showerheads with the stone balls in them. I got an ebay copy one for my van and it revolutionised showers in mine. Its still got pressure but, uses loads less water. Rather than running a flow restrictor.
Are they really that good? I've seem them and thought it was just pure gimmickery.
@@DavidMcLuckie I thought that too but, figured for £6 it was worth a gamble. It doubled the length of time I could shower.
@@nv400adventurer13 which one did you get Scott ?
@@jaycee1736 I just typed stone ball shower head into ebay and clicked on the cheapest one, A - cos all the cheap ones appear to be the same. B - cos I'm Scottish and have a "tight" reputation to live upto 🤣
@@nv400adventurer13 I’ll do the same. Happy camping dude!
Ha, let’s call it Lava 🤣
How about using a Bobil heat exchanger as well to pre heat the water.
Looks very much like a webasto thermotop? as fitted to many makes of cars.
copied of course! the chinese can't do anything else. and are even bad at that.
Hi grate idea can this also be used in an off grid situation.to say suppliment the hot water in the house in the winter months. I.e , connect the hot water heaters output to a solar hot water pv
Evacuated type and dump this into a insulated hot water tank. For a large hot water storage system. Keep up the good work.
We've all waited at the tap for hot water, then spent time adjusting it, before spending 20 seconds washing our freezing hands. For winter use with really cold water supply, you can preheat your cold fresh water tank to the summertime cold water temperature, and then run that lukewarm water through your Lava heater. Then you can wash your hands with warm water in the winter without actually turning on the heater each time. It would take a little more plumbing bits, but it's fantastic.
Side story, I once took a wonderful tour of the Middle East with a hundred of my best friends, and in Kuwait the hot water heaters never turn on, because the water towers have been baking in 133F/56C air all day. Most people took showers in the early morning.
A hundred of my best friends, lol.
My narrow boat has a 1500 litre tank😂 we have long showers with an old paloma instant heater
Being in the water does that mean your 1500 litres essentially weighs nothing?
@@DavidMcLuckie 🧐
Great review! Thanks. Did you measure the fuel consumption? Curious to know what it burns.
I didn't measure it, but the specs sheet (and Webastos) say 600ml per hour on high.
Testing should be done without the thermostatic valve to check efficiency of the plate heat exchanger. Heat transfer definitely drops when the temperature gradient drops. Good video though. It would be pretty cool to use the coolant loop for hydronic heating also.
Any guess on prices as looks perfect for hot water window cleaning. Max of about 5l/min and max of 60DegC?
I had thought window cleaners as well. As you have the benefit I imagine of starting and stopping your flow from the lance as you need it.
Would you mind to share some info about that heat exchsnger?
What would you like to know?
@@DavidMcLuckie Well, Make and model. Yours looks usefull. All other that I have found have strange shape and have no theads to mount fittings.
Have you tried wrapping a small copper tube around the exhaust pipe then wrapping a thick layer of insulation over the copper tube. This water line goes in the supply port. Preheating the water by Salvaging the exhaust heat.
My copper wrapping has been unsuccessful so far.
@@DavidMcLuckie
Ya don't you hate it when a plan goes straight to crap.
Where in the loop would I hook up a radiator? Ideally it'd be part of the coolant loop and have nothing to do with the fresh water. I wonder what kind of heating performance you could get out of say a couple heater cores in parallel
What about egr heat exhanger instaled on exhaust side?
Where can you buy these? Can't find on Google
Not available in USA
Are you talking fartenhype or Celsius?
Celsius, almost always celsius.
Why not putting it in a shower loop? The water should not cool down to much, while its running down on you and thus the little reheating while running through the heater should be enough to sustain the water temperatur.
Can you put a on off simple switch or a smart thermostatic switch instead of 2 step oem switch? I can see there are a lot of wires entering in the switch.
Why not just heat the tank and draw from the tank? Like any storage water heater? Am i missing something?
Could you not use a car egr cooler to try and recover some of the lost exhaust heat ? I have used an egr cooler and managed to recover a fair bit of exhaust heat by plumbing it straight to the webasto exhaust and directly into the hot water output from the webasto heater.
Hello, where can i buy exaust flexible tube for webasto thermo top water heater? not oem, that probably cost a lot... have you find a diy alternative?
How many liters are the heat exchanger ? 5 Liter? 10 Liter? of are the heat exchanger that effective, that it doesn't need that many meters of tubing? I've got a instant water heater that is 10L and runs on lpg/gas. And the water is warm after just running it a few seconds. and After running it for a few minutes, it holds the water warm for several minutes, so it's esentually a water tank, without burning the gas. I noticed you calculated the Lava to hold enough heat for substantially longer while than many minutes - if you install a flow restrictor though. But that its amazing
It's a 6L tank, but in the next video I'll measure the actual capacity of the system properly. Especially as we add heat exchangers and more pipework.
I wonder if they put something to absorb alot of heat in the cooling tank, that it would retain enough to keep the temp up.. That way the burner wouldn't go that often into standby mode.. The problem is temp falling to fast when cold water goes thru it.... And I guess the burner would need alot of service being that it goes on and off all the time, and the diesel would clogg the chamber pretty fast... Idk, just thinking while I'm tierd 😂
thanks good job hellped me mack my mind up
I live in Belgium, where can i buy them?.
personally i think this company will earn a fortune if they can prove its capable of working greatly well done guys
Looks like a personal nuclear reactor prototype there, but without the green glow... :P
I could use green coolant for the effect. :)
Now there's an idea!!! :P
Brilliant video thank you so much 😎👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
You should pass this on to Lavaner, just run the exhaust into the tank and in a second heat exchanger to put the exhaust heat into the coolant too. Also keep your pump handy, imagine pumping clean pure Scottish stream water for a nice hot and Loooonnnggg Shower :)
Would it not have just been better with a really well insulated plate exchanger, not too sure how the tank being filled helps the process. In my mind that would draw heat away from the plate exchanger. If however its a single plate(coil) exchanger on the clean water side and the tank is being used as a header, then that would make a bit more sense??
I’m thinking of using this for my window cleaning round with pole, I currently use a lpg heater like your contra video,but don’t like carrying gas bottle in back of van, I’m having trouble how these work, do they heat the stainless box first than, and diesel heater comes on and off to top the stainless box when it drops in temp ?,so could I I preheat the stainless box driving to work let’s say, than when I connect my window cleaning hose via a 12 v pump it would provide me with instant hot water on demand, if so does the 12v pump need constantly to preheat the stainless box or can it be done without ?
Thanks
The heater heats the coolant in the tank to about 70-80ºC. Then you pump your water through the heat exchanger which takes the heat from the coolant. The heater then cycles between low and high to keep this temperature, but will eventually turn off at 87ºC I think.
@@DavidMcLuckie thanks for the reply, do u know if they have a built in frost stat, and will auto come on if the weather goes below zero ?
Great videos by the way
Hm... A cheap propane camping heater is instant and takes about 20 seconds to get hot water, no need to plan/wait 10 minutes and has worked great for us. We had it mounted on the outside of the RV when parked and added a hot and cold garden spigot to the ouside of the RV to create the inlet and outlet to the hot system using pex slip on Ts and sharkbite garden hose spigot valves. I think this heater would be good for radiant hydronic flooring and if you could add a radiator to get some air heat it might be able to heat a whole small house. What is the fuel consumption for one hour or for example 2 hrs every 6 hrs = 8 hrs running total a day? I assume similar to a normal diesel heater.
The website shows it at 10k usd! I dont know if thats a joke or what, but if thats the real price it ll take a while to make their first sell.
That’s a new page, we are testing the page functions, sorry about it.
I have a feeling the temperature mixer would be better if it has some distance from the heater tank,
Why?
That's what I'd go for if I was, umm blessed with cloudy days... a bit of diesel used inefficiently is better than having crazy pv/battery setups.
A 15 L calorifier ?
LOOKS LIKE N.A.S.A. ON THAT TABLE BRO LOL
this product is no longer available.
Larger insulated water tank, have exhaust heat exchanger built into the tank with stainless tubing 360 dec loop to reduce back pressure on the exhaust.
You could also look at running the heater pipes from the vehicles cooling system to pre heat the hot water system.
The 2kw or the 5kw water heaters are no longer available on Allie express also the Lavaner website says they are not available and there seems to be no available info as to why. Do you have any information if Lavaner is discontinuing their water heaters.
Discontinuing no. Limited available of electronics yes. Best shot is messaging Craig on their Facebook page - facebook.com/Lavaner-Pro-Diesel-Heater-106624824474845
You could redesign the electrical circuit to bypass the cool down cycle by using a water flow detection input to a relay to bypass the thermal detection shut down cycle while there is water flowing through the system. Essentially making it a "On Demand" unit. This would give you unlimited 2KW heat to your shower and eliminating the need for a flow reduction in your shower head and it probably would mix better in your mixing valve as well. Better yet you should do away with the mixing valve altogether and just mix it at the tap with cold water to temper the hot water. The water lines from the Lava should be plumbed into the hot water lines anyway.
You could also run the exhaust snaking through the coolant tank to make it heat up quicker (albeit you would need to open the tank up and route the pipes through and then re-weld the tank.) You could also have the flow detection turn on the unit as well so you would not need to manually turn it on. You could run this through the on/off switch so you could turn it off manually when not in use.
As you mention a strategy is required to get the best out of this for a half decent shower.
A 2kw direct water heater without heat storage could really only heat approx 1.1LPM of water by +25C without any heat stored in the system.
After the energy stored in the heat exchanger, glycol & tank has cooled down that’s effectively the energy you have to heater the water.
Most home electric showers are now minimum 10kW to get a half decent shower ( in winter) I remember the original 6kw electric showers they were pretty pathetic even in summer with warmer water supply. This is borne out by the figures 4.5LPM at +35C requires 11kW.
How does the Alde caravan system work, does it have greater output or more hot water storage?
Unfortunately, the Americans refuse to abandon to abandon stupid fartenhype (a measurement based on the shiver point of a walrus)
I see the reason for the thermostatic mixer at that section of the pipework. John Guest fitting is only rated at 65C/150F at 6 Bar/90 psi.(usually JG 12mm pipe is used in the vast majority of modern campervans/motor homes) If this is heating water at 74C it could blow the hot water pipe. I have no idea if reducing the water pressure allows an increase in the working of the temperature of JG pipe??
It does. Hence used in central heating systems after the first few feet of copper from the boiler. At 20ºC it'll take 12BAR, 65ºC 6BAR, 82ºC 3BAR. So the FloJet pump in our van was 3ish BAR and the water in our tank was around 85ºC. It'll take higher temps for short durations.
@@DavidMcLuckie Cheers for the info. I did have a look around online but I couldn't find any more temperature ratings below 6 Bar.
You can use it as a heater system like a ALDE heater.
Great video David!! Any idea why this product is no longer avaialble?
The global supply crisis mostly. It's not a hugely popular model, so until supply shortages stop happening the diesel air heaters take priority. You could send Craig a message on their Facebook page.
So, Why havent Lavaner utillized the exhaust also. I actually expected them to do this, being different from everybody else. Might we expect a version 2 of this?
As far as I know, no-one has yet. It's literally free heat. But I suppose it has to be worth the extra expense. We'll find out.
Because people dont care if it needs 0,10€ fuel per hour less but they care alot if it is 100€ more to buy it.
Great video, thanks! Looking forward to the followup. I like your efficiency improvement ideas, especially insulating the tank. Although you didn't mention it I'm assuming you'll insulate the exhaust heat exchanger too.
It will be my intention. Assuming I can find a suitable material that doesn't involve itching.
@@DavidMcLuckie Mineral wool house insulation is fabulous.
I'm looking at using a couple of Webasto units for heating, rather than a central heating boiler.
On the Webasto spec it says heat output is 5.2kW on high and 2.5kW on low, with fuel consumption of 0.59 and 0.30 litres per hour accordingly.
Now if diesel has a calorific value of 10.0 to 10.7 kWh/litre (values off various sites via Google) and you use the higher value, the conversion is about 82% efficient which is good for a small oil boiler. Larger ones up in the 90s.
So I think that gives roughly 1kW out the exhaust, which seems fair.
I think the setup had more losses than expected with the uninsulated tank.
Such a system would of course perform better with more primary storage, but recovering at least some of the lost heat from the exhaust should help massively.
You really do need a TMV though, as the flow temperature could be 80°C, enough for serious injury.
You did say you had a thermostatic shower mixer.
I'm going to revisit my measurements on the power rating. As I think Webasto are measuring a heater running at full burn and not from start to finish as I did. Good point about the mixer preventing a scalding injury. Perhaps I could replace it with a non-adjustable version for safety.
@@DavidMcLuckie valid point that, measuring fuel efficiency over a full cycle versus a snippet of a steady state condition.
Regarding the TMV, I think it probably did a better job than your measurements showed due to the losses of being outdoors.
I did some tests using a baby bath as the bulk water container and it was surprising how much heat loss there was even with the slightest breeze.
Thank you for your comment - i would bet a kidney my hydronic puts out close to 5Kw not closer to 2
I've seen another chinese unit that provides heating air supply and hot water for rv/engine pre heat. Are they any good?
For that purpose they are good. The hot air is practically as good as any other heater and the water heater side is ok for preheating coolant. The water heater side is about 1kw of heating power on a good day. :)
Thanks David. Thoroughly enjoying your videos !
Looking forward to your experiments with the egr cooler.
Also, this might be a bit of a nightmare to build… using a normal diesel air heater, an egr cooler, a heat exchanger, tank and pump…. do you think the diesel “air” heater could heat enough water for a short shower? “If you build it, we will watch!”
Thank you for all the information and entertainment!
Well there is this one - ua-cam.com/video/cVT4bR5e7FI/v-deo.html
Got about 500w of heating power from the egr cooler.
@@DavidMcLuckie I’m feeling a little foolish for not doing my homework!😂😂
Thank you for the reply and all the information!
I would love to see a video of the added on heater[exhaust] exchanger working, and see how much more efficient it becomes.
That said, in my usage case of living full time in my Skoolie, with 6 persons using the hot water heater for showers, I think that the propane on demand heater is the best option, as it is instantaneous and last the whole time you shower.
However... using this as a hot water heating system for your floors, THERE is a definite use there for that!
Thanks for the honest review! Great job!
Great video. So you can't run the thing on full blast the whole time with a water temperature of 40c. That is a shame. That what I would do, is take my time and fill a big tank with heated water and shower with that instead so you don't have to wait for the water to heat up again.
Hi Jaap. People can start to take the shower when the heated temp of coolant reached to 48 degrees centigrade , which means the all in one heater will work at full power(5KW) all the time, this will make the water temperature keep high enough, no need to wait until the heater went to standby mode at 74 degrees centigrade! For supplying the hot water on demand, you need to have a big water tank!
@@lavaner-WeManufactureComfort okay thanks. Hey and when are there your products available? It is out of stock for a while now. I would like to have the all in one portable heater.
@@jaaprijke1216 Hi Jaap. please leave me your email here, I would write you an email about it. Thanks
@@lavaner-WeManufactureComfort hi we already had contact via email. Maybe you can remember me. I am from the Netherlands. You told me that you would contact me when the heater is available again.
@@jaaprijke1216 HO, Sorry, there are too many customers contacting me all day long.
Needs to be smaller for a campervan, even my modest 6m van. As you say, exhaust heat is a big waste. These vids do a great job of driving innovation. I'll stick to My Hozelock and gas powered kettle, it works. Great video. Would love to see vids of your campervan. 👍
It takes up about the same space as the 10L Propex tank I had in my van. A gas powered kettle?
@@DavidMcLuckie hot water from kettle on gas hob... sorry about that. I use a Hozelock with shower head.
I'm slightly disappointed a gas powered kettle isn't a thing. :)
@@DavidMcLuckie just saying, wood fired stoves, electric & gas. Suporising how many vanlifer get their hot water from a kettle. Maybe one of those gas powered instant hot water boilers that get put on the inside of the back door. I wonder if they could be boxed in a vetted through the back door? They are fairly cheap.
Where do you got that egr heat exchanger?
That is a swimming pool heat exchanger. I'm not quite using it for it's intended purpose. :)
yay