AC VS DC STICK WELDING COMPARISON
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- AC VS DC STICK WELDING COMPARISON. This week we are comparing the welds done on an AC buzz box VS the weld done on a DC inverter based welder and see if there is a difference. Then we discuss the benifits of each. If you have never tried 7024 welding rod you are in for a treat. Get professional results easily.
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Brandon: Dad and Mom went to the CooP Feed Store in 67 or 68 and bought a Forney 225 welder. I remember us looking at other welders at that time. It still works. It has 5 taps for the stinger and 3 taps for the "ground" lead ; high ,med, and low giving 15 different amperages. I tried 7018 AC/DC rods he had and it would only run at 90 and 130 . I checked the open circuit voltage and those winding had a little higher output voltage. I bought a box of the AC formula rods and it runs fine. So I could see where some with a different brand or model of buzz box would say the general 7018 AC/DC rods would not work for them and like dad, just not know they made a rod for AC.
That is an excellent point! Thank you!
Oh that sound of the 7024 brought back some memories. Like an old song that you haven't heard in a long time 🤣🤣
I know the feeling @Basil Keen. You don't hear much of people using it these days. It's
What a great explanation. I just received a similar explanation in welding school a few weeks ago but honestly Brandon, as great as my teachers are…you do a damn good job of teaching. You kick ass. I totally appreciate you and your efforts.
Thank you very much @Shasta Rayne that means a lot to me! You made my day! 😊🙏👍
Aw! I’m glad. I really do mean it! You deserve it. Hope you have a nice day!
Thanks! And Happy Easter!
I don't think the welding is good because of the machine but because of the hand holding the machine. Thanks for the great video
I appreciate it thank you! 🙏
The old welder is still kickin it! Brandon, your explaination of AC and DC applications were easy to follow and well done. This week i’m hoping to make a run to the welding supply to pick up 7024 rods and try ‘em out.
Thanks @BrianR- Your going to love it!
My experience with DCEP welding is that for some reason, the rods go out much quicker than with AC welding, and when I first used my inverter, I had in mind that I would set it to 80 amps, as I would do with my AC machine. However, because the metal was thin, it start melting it and I had to reduce the current. I've never tried DCEN welding.
With AC on the other hand, is harder to strike an arc, but I guess after watching this video, striking an arc with DCEN it might be even harder.
The reason I still have both of them, is because I have the huge and heavy AC welder in a corner in my basement ready for action at any time, while my DC inverter that is about as big and heavy as a video camera is taken apart in its suitcase and ready to be transported anywhere. In other words, if it's more practical to take the work to my basement, I'll use the AC welding machine, and if it's more practical to bring the welding machine to the work, I'll use the inverter.
I actually like AC welding but it's also the process I started out on. It wasn't until a few years later that I started welding with DC and your right, I recall that it felt like the DC extinguised faster than on AC.
7024 is an awesome rod. I ran many pounds of it in my 20s welding structural steel. Thanks!
Good stuff and strong! @Earl Cavenaugh
I learnt about 7024, quite by accident, my work place was throwing them out, so I took some home to try on my old buzzbox. Wow, what a difference, my welds were strong and looked great.
Great video, thanks Brandon.
Thanks man @petertyrrell6690 yah those 7024 are a lot of fun to run for sure!
Wow, finally someone that I could learn from.
I appreciate that you presented a quick introduction elucidating what you were going to present rather than a bunch fluffy, filly talk that loses me and then just frustrates me because I was expecting material that actually teaches.
And then you presented a quick conclusion.
That is how a presentation ought to be done. Keep up the good work!!
Thank you so much! I appreciate your support very much
I bought my first yeswelder today!! 205 Stick. Thank you for your input and reviews. Means a lot 👍
Congratulations buddy! You are going to love it!
7014 kinda similar...and Im still watching but I would have liked to see 7018 on the A/C buzz box vs Dc Hobart rods say A/C or D/C but 7024 I used in a fab shop with the Lincoln Tombstone back in the day
Jetrod is my favorite for Doing vehicle Frame welding and it's super Strong it's used alot around me at the Bridge iron Place around me that makes Buildings and bridges
Its awesome stuff and lays down FAST!
Thanks for the reminder about 7024. It may be the unsung hero in stick welding.
I totally agree! 🙏👍
Hey Brandon, I have to pick up some of those 7024 rods. I am all for making it easier. My mainstay has been 7018's and I have been able to get by most of the time. Thanks for sharing, Fred.
It's a fun rod to run for sure Fred!
My new welding instructor !! Thanks from your normal diy guy 🙏
@Buggy0106 I appreciate it and thanks for the sub!
Awesome video as always Brandon there’s always something to learn out of your video. Keep up the hard work
Thank you so much @Jonny WIlliams I appreciate it! 🙏👍
Hey Brandon, I've just looked at a video from 4 months ago and I liked it. The time I was working on a shipyard, we only had ac welders so you had no comparison with dc. Later on, I welded with dc machines and they have a much smoother arc. Love your videos man and keep on making them, my regards to you.
@Christian Bos thanks man I appreicate it!
I would bet there were a lot of ships built with AC.
Great explanation as I needed to know the differences between AC, DC+ and DC- really appreciate!
You're welcome!
Best thing about Ac stick welding is it Does Prep you to help make mig and DC easier to learn less of a learning curve when you learn stick welding
I agree 100% i reccomend anyone starting out to use stick 1st. Lot of fundamentals carry over into all the other processes
Really helpful video. You’re a great teacher dude
Thanks man i appreciate it! 👍
Love the video! Great welding tech tips.
Quality as always
Glad you enjoyed it Thank you @Brian maynard 🙏👍
Thanks for the information all the best to you and your loved ones
Thank you very much @Donald Halls same to you and yours! 🙏👍
Hey Brandon great video on the discussion of the different rods and AC vs DC and when and why to use what! I liked the explanation of AC vs DC I will have to correct you on the current and Voltage explanation on the sine wave. In the Sine wave only the Voltage changes amplitude (voltage) does the current change? Yes as we know as voltage decreases the current increases with a constant resistance.
However with a changing voltage as in AC this brings us to impedance. The comment section is not big enough to delineate that subject.
The big picture being with AC, rods respond differently compared to DC with those rods that can weld with both AC and DC systems.
I did learn about welding thin metal and how to approach this. 😁🛫
@TheFalconJetDriver this is why I love our welding community. There is literally hundreds of years of real life experience being shared on this channel for everyone to absorb. Thank you for sharing!🙏👍
My neighbor gave me his old Lincoln Tombstone 225AC buzzbox. I recently put a new plug and cord on it and my friend will run the 240 receptacle next week. Can't wait!
As to your question about the sound difference between AC and DC, the DC won by a mile (or maybe Decibel).
Right on and congratulations! @theidahodian4518
Great video and thanks for the rod reference website. That will come in very handy for sure. You earned a new sub. 👍😊
Awww man I appreciate that! Thank you for the sub! I appreciate your support and kind words and for your recent SUB to the channel. You rock!
Lincoln I the most well known for buzz bixes because the orginal ones looked like a tombstone
And the 60 times a Second In alternating curing is also known as Hertz or HZ
As always, great video. Your explanation is really good and informative to those not into electronics. The slide changes the inductance of the coil, not the resistance, but that is immaterial to your explanatlion. Again, you give us information that is USEFULL! I think it is fun to use the older welder in my shop. I have been practicing using your methods, and getting a little better. Keep up the great work!!! Be well, be safe, and weld on!!!d Blessings. By the way, your 7024 rod is relatively the same price as 6011 on Amazon.
Thanks you so much @Jim MacSuga I really enjoy using the old welders. It just has a different feel to it plus it brings back lots of good memories.
@@BrandonLund and lots of new ones!!! At 76, learning a new skill has been an adventure and I so enjoy it!!! I have watched many videos on youtube and yours is the one I land on most. Thanks!!
I truly appreciate that buddy!
Have to try the 7024 rods 👍
You will love it! @Ruben Vargas
Not sure if you’ll reply to this but I’m a beginner and want to get a good all purpose, long lasting stick welding machine so I was just wondering if you think the AC/DC Lincoln Electric machine would fit that criteria or if you would recommend something else
Yes, absolutely! You can't go wrong with lincoln, miller or hobart. All are top notch 👍
7024 jetrod sounds more crisp on DC more of that bacon sound that dc provides over ac
I agree!
Thanks I am learning more from you then in Welding School,,, LOL
Thank you! 🙏😁😁
The best AC transformer machines are higher OCV power source from the era when AC stick was a major industrial process. I bought a Hobart T-400 for the cables when copper was high but kept it for the sweet arc. I'll never exceed its max power and I don't get close on the 50A outlets I typically run it from. They're big, they're heavy and demand a cart (scaffolding casters are awesome, I use the round style for welder carts with the largest wheels I can order) but they're usually cheap and have usually outlived their first owner.
I love the idea of scaffolding casters for carts!
Brandon you explanations are Awsome thanks.
My pleasure!
DC seams to be faster than ac and it is definitely too hot... when I used to weld 7024 DC I didn't have to chip the slag like that it would just peel right up and looked beautiful almost like I tig welded it. We only used that for building lifting equipment for strength, no weaving it, just straight flat passes very clean jet rod😊
Jet rod is awesome stuff
Good presentation. FYI there is a correction factor converting AC current to DC current which is why your DC was a bit hot.
Thanks for the info!
This is a great video! Awesome explanation thank you!
You're very welcome!
Brandon, for those that are unaware, basically AC welders are made in two types. The first has multiple output connection taps or sockets. These are becoming less common today. The second one has an adjustable slug or other means that is either slid into position, or cranked to the desired output. Both have their benefits, but the first one isn't usually variable, meaning that the output current is set at, say 75 amps, and the next one might be 90. If one wanted to use something in between, they are stuck. The variable welder is easier to get between 75 and 90 amps for the output.
DC welders come in several types. First is engine or electric motor powered. These are typically used in the outdoors, but the electric motor type is getting less common. These are most often used in industry. The other DC welders are similar to AC welders, but with the addition of a means of converting the AC output via a rectifier to DC. Another variety of these welders has a digital display or an analog meter that can register either voltage or amperage, or both. These are the most common types.
Early electrodes didn't have a shielding coating, and we're not easy to operate for that reason.
Great explanation, thank you @Bryant Fry. I'm probably going to convert my free to me Harbor Freight AC mig welder over to DC this summer using a rectifier. It should be interesting.
@@BrandonLund my harbor freight welder I converted to DC. There are a number of videos around showing how that can be done. I upgraded the cooling fan on mine as well. LMK if you need help doing yours.
Thanks man! One thing all these manufacturers need to do is rig the fan to a thermal switch so when it's not under load it's not running.
@@BrandonLund yes, they are a bit noisy. That would certainly be a good thing.
I haven't stick weld since I was a sophomore in high school and that was in metal class. Oh I've seen it done over the years at work.
It's just like riding a bike Jake. I picked up stick for the first time today in months. It was fun
@@BrandonLund You make it look easy and fun at the same time. I know one thing you have a lot of videos, I've been watching and each one has tips which help me understand what I need to know about welding. Thank you!
Thanks man im glad i can help. I got a notification a few days ago telling me i have 300 uploads. It surprised me actually
great video…again! 👍👍👊👊
Thanks man I appreciate it! @J W Dickinson 😊🙏👍
I was doing some welding at work today and I used 6013 1/8 inch rod on an old Forny plug in welder and I welded up one part of it with the cables plugged in like was always showed to do I shut it down and took the cables off and when I came back to weld some more I plugged the cables in backwards not looking and started to weld and I didn't even have to scratch start I got the rod close and it just took right off and as far as I know that welder is just ac but it was smooth I didn't realize that I plugged it in backwards until I was done welding
Interesting. So when you were welding the second time was it AC negative? Can't say I've ever tried it so im real curious.
@@BrandonLund yes it was
When I I unplugged the the leads from the welder my stinger was plugged into the the high ground and the ground was plugged into 130 amp spot
I'm curious to try it now!
@@BrandonLund that was on an old forny ac welder probably a 1950 some thing welder
Thank you
You're welcome
Very well explained
Thank you!
Those yeswelders look really nice, I’m debating on that or the Titanium. What’s your opinion
I havent tried the Titanium but I have been really happy with the YesWelder so far @Ruben Vargas
Thanks Brandon 👍😁
You bet @Dave Stewart
Reostat on a microwave transformer. High frequency AC welding is fun.
Hi does shield arc 85 rods weld in dc ?? I can’t get them to start an arc on my ac Lincoln tombstone welder
I've never tried them actually
Where did you find the hold down that looks like a v that is held down by a vice Brandon
I made it
Hey, I've got the next one up from Craftsman, same adjustment.
It does AC and DC.
Seems like I've forgotten the little I knew as I may only 'fire it up once or twice a year nowadays (this 'getting old' is no fun at all, I had even forgotten I was subscribed to your channel)
I have trouble getting amperage right, even quite low amps makes electrode get red hot over entire length? (35+ years ago I did a lot of on site stick welding but never really learned correct methods, welder-generator in back of van was pretty much automatic)
100% duty cycle on 20 Amps but I've never used that low.
I have 6013 and 7018, sounds like I need to try some 7024, use an old toaster oven to make sure electrodes are dry, (45 min @250f)
Some very useful information, thanks.
Do you still have XR400?
I was instructor at MMI, did fair bit of work on 'everything' over the years including 440cc conversion for student. Made it much nicer in Florida sand
I appreciate you watching! It's an xr100 and I still have it. It's probably one of the funnest bikes we own.
@@BrandonLund
Cool, I could see the XR but not the numbers.
I stayed with smaller bikes, lot of fun trying to go fast on something you really shouldn't go fast on.
Been modifying 1970's CB360's for years, kinda my era.
that blue welder looks like a 90's computer
I know right! Lol
Man AC/DC was sweet!😂
Sure was!
I run 7024 on DC but only need 140 amps for 1/8 i have run it down to 125 amps and it's good on 1/8 material. When you get the right amps the slag will self peel. Looks good when the slag just lifts on it's own. I have had sections of slag 8" long peel up. Maybe on the ac welder you need high amps, the manufacturer of the rods I use say 140 amps for 1/8 rods. For 5/16 rods they say 160 to 180 amps. What make are the rods you use?
I'm not sure of the brand but I'm thinking they are probably lincoln. Because I didn't have the original package I used the miller online calculator to get some rough settings.They were running hot so definitely would need to dial it back some.
@@BrandonLund I would thinking that the yes welder is not at all accurate with their readings on amps.another reviewer said this welder is really only a 160 amp one at best. So at the 170 amp setting you thought was hot and I think it was less than the 170 amps set at but still too hot for the1/8 rod 7024. Anyway try it at a lower setting then compare that to what your Fronius does at the same setting, and try it at 140 amps.
That's a great tip! I didn't think of that. I know the Fronus I's going to be dead on so I'm curious how it will stack up. I might have to get a cheap O clamp on amp meter and do some testing
Buzz boxes are valuable to have. These machines will survive a flood, EMI attacks, years of use.
These machines are great for welding magnatized steel. If the steel is exposed to heat and dirt its probably magnatized. These machines are great for practicing 6013 uphill cause if you can master 6013 uphill on a buzz box you will be able to weld 7018 uphill on DC with your eyes closed.
Spot on Carlos! for sure!
you didn t mention 7014. works great on a/c. better than 6013.
True 👍
7018 weld 3/8th mild steel in ac? Using The tombstone lincoln?
That works too. You can get rods specific for AC welders
One ques. Always have about difficult weldind.with magnetic holder
AC is really good with that :) @Andile [LT] Thole
Excellent
Thanks
Can you buy it in smaller sizes rod
1/16 is the smallest size
Why do you not use the 7024 more often? Also, do you have a video on reverse polarity welding?
@Barry Kratzer Mainly because unless you are welding flat / horizontal you have to manipulate the part to get it into that position. A lot of times it's just quicker to weld the part without manipulation. Here is a video comparing polarity and how it effects certain rods. ua-cam.com/video/jj7uCglBFAc/v-deo.html
DC sounds smoother
are you happy with your new welder? I have a Home Depot Lincoln MIG with a c25 bottle, works great till the wind shows up. My uncle has a 120V Klutch that does stick or wire feed but it has issues. I'm wondering if should part with a few grand and buy a Miller.
Your going to get that anyways with wind. The only time wind really isn't much of a factor is stick welding. I'm really happy with the machine. You really cant go wrong with Miller, Hobart. They are time tested and bullet proof.
Flux core gets by with some wind too. Though I had been welding with gusts that gave me trouble. I didn't switch to stick and see if it was better.
The AC was more like fireworks and the DC was like a laser..
I likey
Brandon, your logic on DCEN being ‘better’ for thin metal and DCEP/ thicker seems to be opposite of their inherent values..? On DCEN, the electrodes with travel towards the positive so in theory it’ll burn hotter AT the metal vs the rod. Maybe I’m missing something in what you said but I understood that to be reversed.
@AXNJXN1 DCEN provides less penetration and because of this it is better suited on thinner metal and works great for open root passes. DCEP has more penetration and because of this it is better suited on thicker metals. DCEP also has less chance of porosity because it has better cleaning action than DCEN.
Bradon is correct. The electrode is being violently being burned and put into the molten pool. It actually burns in deeper, but technically you can get better weld puddle fusion with negative because of the heat and possibly more inclusions because positive has some cleaning action. Applies to MIG but not FCAW. TIG we have to run negative to save the electrode from excess heat ( AC adds some cleaning action).
From what I got from the video, is that the difference between AC vs DC is little to none for welding steel.
Pretty much. DC is a a little smoother arc but thats about it
@@BrandonLund I'm new to welding, and picked up a used Century AC 230Amp welder. I'm a bit overwhelmed at the number of options out there for machines and rods. I'm learning that proficiency with a machine is practice and familiarity with what you have. 6013, 3/32 or 1/8 pretty much does it all for me. Of course I'm just making shooting targets and doing simple repairs on mowers or firewood hauling trailers, so failure is okay.
Thats awesome man. My 1st welder was an AC so im real comfortable when striking an arc. A big advantage with AC over DC is that you dont get arc blow. Sometimes the arc will wander when using DC. It wont do that with AC. Personally i like AC welding
kha se he sir ji aap
I'm from Maine - United States
I haven’t seen any new videos in awhile, am i not looking in the right place?
Thats odd
The last video i see is the one where you have the insulation in your hands
7024 allows a non-welder to learn to weld. It’s a high deposit rod because of the iron particles in the flux.
It sure does. Lays down like butter!
I would just use 7014. A homemade welder can make it spatter and penetrate like MAG. Making it useful for structural applications.
I prefer AC to DC by the way.
I like AC also!
Thank you
You bet! @Peter McCuskey