BMW M235i vs Audi S3 - Performance Sedan Sweet Spot? - Everyday Driver
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- As their mid-sized sedans grow larger and each brand offers more models, Audi and BMW have created new enthusiast options. The guys grab hot versions of the smallest cars they offer in the US, and head for new roads in the desert. Which one offers the most enjoyment for this size and budget?
(We apologize if your hear a high-pitched wine in a couple shots - we suffered a mic problem and have since resolved it)
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Why does the presenter keep putting on and taking off a wig?
hahahahahhaha
lol
MassiveGlove I see what you did there
Well, you know what they say, hair today, gone tomorrow XD
MassiveGlove he’s wigging out
I was pretty much on the verge of buying an S3. Found a spec I liked, and went to test drive a fully-specced car. It was beautiful, and the interior was very impressive. The car was fast, very fast. It darted around the pock-marked streets with ease, soaking up every bump. But, the entire time I drove it, I felt detached. I put it down to how engaging my ST MP215 was, and that few cars would ever be as involving. I wanted to love the S3, but something was missing.
Then I saw this video. I went to test drive an M240i. The car felt so much more dramatic. While the S3 is cute, the M240i just looks so much more menacing. The interior felt so much more welcoming, and the seats just mould to you. From ignition, the cars deep purr is intoxicating, and the feel on dry roads so planted. Everything about the car felt so much more soulful.
Halfway through, the heavens opened, and any fear I had of a rear-wheel drive car with that much power feeling unwieldy in the wet evaporated. It was so communicative and steady, and even in sport plus, any rear slides were reigned in so easily.
Reader: I was hooked, and after some shrewd negotiations, I bought one. Best decision I ever made.
How’s yours holding up now? I’ve thought about upgrading from my WRX into either an M235i or an S3
@@jonm.678 M235i do it. Or M235xi too. Expensive m340i is very fast with b58 engine
@@jonm.678 I just did that with my wrx and I’m waiting for mine to come in from vroom, did you ever pull the trigger on the two?
@@Kevin-in4nf so actually instead of an M235i I got a 340i. I’m happy with it- the power of the B58 engine is insane
@@jonm.678 have a 328i and upgrading to an m235i. The m340 is so sexy though.
The S3 seems to be like the dignified, straight-laced gentleman that goes wine tasting and horseback riding through the vineyard on weekends. The M235i seems like the fresh out of college business intern that still wants to party on weekends.
Chance Hales Summers Eve or Massengill?
Chance Hales haha dont try to justify a budget golf by these comparison :) everyone know there is a volkswagen under there :) trust me, get the BMW it will make you fall in love with driving.
thoravian Never said I'd buy one. ;)
Chance Hales whew ok :)
thoravian I had previously owned a Jetta for a short time. Worst decision ever car wise.
Gonna guess M235i before I watch.
I love the way the S3 looks. Just the style alone makes me want one.
Ew
front end looks like a baby A6
Looks like a jetta with an Audi Logo lmao
@@gabrielflores1149 👈no taste
boring
I test drove both and I love the s3 way more. I choose it more for practicality! Very fun to drive nimble car and 235i only comes in 2 doors, which is quite a bummer. Being that I drive 24k miles a year I believe it gives the best of both worlds. Cruiser, nimble and practical. I also felt the 235 interior felt crammed, to busy. I love the minimalist, clean interior of s3. The other reason is that I'm not "canyon carving" all the time.
At the end of day, pick the car that suits your needs more. Both of this cars are great! In fact, my buddy got a 235i and on occasion we go canyon carving.
Key word is on occasion not everyday driving. :)
tested the s3 and bmw m240i the bm now sits on my drive
U picked the wrong car
@@Raudi_5pot its a matter of choice. But judging by your name you a fanboy who doesn't really grasps some major concepts.
Similar story here mate drove an Audi S5 coming from my older A4, didnt know, tried to drive a m240i, sold 10 minutes before i arrived. An inline 6 twin turbo 2016 e class coupe now is what im with
SpinOnAllFours S3/Ralliart you have the wrong opinion.
I beat a modified s5 in a drag yesterday on a 2016 M235i stock. :)
These s3s are so damn quick, my gf has the 2016 in Black and my god the light little fucker moves. With that legitimate turbo feel. It's no where near the power of my c63 but I am extremely impressed with Audi products especially this one. Definitely a viable option for anyone looking for a performance sedan.
AMG or BUST C63 😍🤘
"Muscular short cheerleader who put on a great fitting dress" ha ha made me snicker. Very entertaining and informative reviews; keep it up :)
I never thought I'd say this but I really like that BMW
Hysteria357 you won’t regret getting it. I love it replacing my 535i. Much more fun drive plus you can beat most cars on the road stock. Yesterday I beat an S5 that pulled next to me and asked to race. His was modified and mine is still stock.
@@The713Sonic how’s yours holding up and how miles you got on it and what year is yours
@The713Sonic what a load of crap no way on any planet is a stock 535i that's heavy as hell beating a tuned s5 from a stop light let alone a roll stay off drugs and stop making up things that never happened a tuned s5 has over 400 hp
Lol I ended up getting a 2016 Lexus GS 350 F sport not long after this comment. Definitely the better choice.
@@The713SonicHow reliable was yours?
I just drove a manual M235i today. I'm putting in an order.
Stealth Sportback The interior is surprisingly spacious for the cars size and yes the quality is what you would expect out of BMW. The fit an finish on everything is brilliant.
+Paras Kalra I wouldn't. No offense, but the M235i isn't a real "M" car. It isn't made by the M division in BMW. It's just the badge.
Wait for the M2 bro, unveiling on the 14th October mate.... Hold on its going to be a beast and worth waiting a little longer than buying the m235i
+qfour20 whoah amazing insight alert the presses!
only shit about these 2 series is they dont make xdrive manuals anymore. they wont even give us the option to pay for it. if you live in the states and have winter/snow seasons and are planning to use it as a day driver then might wanna get xdrive
Honestly love how descriptive you guys are when reviewing. Also really appreciate your more down to earth thinking in terms of car pricing. I for one will never spend over $35k on a car and appreciate this grounded view. Love your work. Keep up the great job guys
Blake Swan - We make a real effort to describe the cars and sensations so you can feel a bit like you are in the cars with us. We've very pleased that it's working for you! And yes, we want everyone in every budget to find a car they can not just afford, but also enjoy. Thanks for liking what we do!
Good news, m235i's are popping up for less than 25k now
Not to sound like a Bimmer Snob, but there's no way anyone could convince me that a warmed-over VW could compete on any level in this comparison. It's like comparing a Gibson to a low-end Ibanez lol
BMW 228i does not have a DSG. It has a 8-speed ZF, you should really have known that.
BMW wins but for that I would buy a used Cayman or 911
Crazy how much it costs for a small german car nowadays.. Think I prefer the m135 in this case, look forward to your review of the M2 when it comes.
***** There 100% is a M135... literally type into your computer www.google.co.uk and search it. its an amazing thing
;)
+Jack Naylor It's not even just German cars, all car prices have gone up. I think for BMW's it's a bit awkward because they made more packages with less individual options being available.
+Jack Naylor When you adjust for inflation and compare performance over the last 25 years the prices make perfect sense.
Union leaders asking for more in Germany , Plus more regulation and taxes
The specs of the bmw are amazing 6 cylinder, 340hp, RWD... I would definitely buy it but it looks so boring... You can't see the difference between an 235 and a 218. No racing/sporty elements, small rims, strange distribution of shapes and volume in the body... I'll go for the S3
Would love to see you drive an RS3
if your going to compare these cars why would you not compare the s3 with the M235 x drive...
Because they are not comparing the speed but more the character they want to be
I'd go BMW hands down on this one. I def. agree that it's sort of a simple replacement for the E46, and I like that concept.
Here's a valid question- Why in the hell would you compare a rear drive manual with an AWD automatic. I really wanted to see a comparison of these two vehicles as I may purchase one. This just proves you like driving RWD manuals. If you had used the xdrive bmw m235 it would have been a great comparison, but instead you just effed the whole test up.
@classiccarz the golf R is a better comparo because the golf can have a stick. I also believe chris harris more than these two whoevers... Chris says the BMW is more fun but the golf r is the better car overall...
It’s actually pretty sad that the 235 competes with a S3. It should’ve been M2 vs S3.
S3 vs M235i Conclusion: buy a Golf R
Golf R vs WRX STi Conclusion: buy a GTI
GTI wins!
rempwnz amazing
My brother owns a gti and I own a s3. Gotta love the GTI’s man. For what you pay, unbeatable performance
I've probably watched this video a dozen times over the past 2 years. Initially I was set on an M235i and was just doing research, not seriously considering the S3. Months later, I decide the S3 is a more rounded car and would be a better daily driver. Now I'm back to the 2 series since no manual option is simply a deal breaker. Now, however, after reading several reviews, I'm thinking the 4 cylinder 230i with M sport and THP may be the better drive train for my style and intended use. Can't believe I just said that. Maybe I should just settle and get the M2.
Lol. I got a used m235i 3 months ago and I’m pretty happy with it. My brother has the 328i and fell in love with bmws overall. The only problem I have I guess is that it’s a bit heavy for being such a small car compared to the light feeling of the 328i in-line 4.
Spectacular review! As always, your in-depth emotional and objective perspectives are invaluable. I do feel the S3 is more luxury than sporty, while the M235i is more true to
Question, if you had to choose one, 2008 Cayman S or BMW M235i?
+Brian C - The Cayman is a more focused drivers car if you can make a two seater work for your life. It's lower, lighter, and more analog than the M235i...We'd say Cayman - but the BMW is close in many ways.
EverydayDriver Thanks for the feedback. The M235i was a bit out of my price range but I was able to get into a 228i M-Sport, fully spec'd. It wasn't as driver focused as I had expected. Fairly numb steering. No exhaust note. Suspension wasn't stiff enough for me. It didn't have adaptive dampers. I passed on it. Still a fantastic car, love the looks, quietness, seats, technology, etc. But like you stated, not as driver focused.
I was able to test drive and might be purchasing a 07 Cayman S this week. Amazing sports car. Feels like a true race car at its roots. Designed for the track but livable enough for everyday driving.
BTW I live near the foothills in Rancho Cucamonga. Do you guys ever do subscriber meetups? It would be awesome to ride our cars through the socal mountains.
both in red, disaster ...
I have the red convertible 😬
And my screen is twice that size
The S3 isn´t the hottest version of the A3. Have you ever heard of the RS3???
Neither the M235i , the proper M2 its coming this year.
+vivalaphill Still just VW. BMW has much more character
MissMan666 a Rolls Royce is also just an overpriced BMW.
vivalaphill
Yep. Rolls has no soul left :)
MissMan666 wut?
Aside from the subjective diatribes about the 235...where are the tangible comparisons. All that was said was this s3 is fast when you floor it and it has a nicer interior and the 235 is better because it is manual and rear wheel drive. Where are the lap times that show it is better around the track, where are the comparisons to back it up as the better canyon driver. It seems less like a review and more like an editorial. I give this review 2.5/5...an E for effort.
Sachsenring lap times:
BMW M235i: 1:40:33
Audi S3 (4 door): 1:42:87
VW Golf R Mk VII: 1:41:73
From fastestlaps.com
You're welcome
+FedeRSX checked that site and on the only two comparos, the S3 was faster on two different tracks by .20 sec. But most of the buyer of the cars will never go to the track. As an all rounder suitable for all weather, the S3 is a better choice and it'll leave the M235i at the traffic light too. There are numerous UA-cam videos in support.
M240i xDrive will do 0-60mph in 4.2sec. If you care about traffic light races, don't compare apple to oranges.
Pilot Super Sport - Add that the M240i is $10k more than the S3 and that's without leather. From 0-60: M2401 Coupe RWD 8A 4.3 sec 12.7 sec @ 111 mph Car and Driver
Audi S3 2015 AWD 6A 4.4 sec 12.9 sec @ 108 mph Car and Driver
Thanks guys, now I want an m235i again.
S3 is a family sized car in most of Europe...
America just has fat families. I see no problem with an S3 fitting a whole family well
No it's not.. I'm 6ft 2 and no one can sit behind me..... and is is soooooo boring.......... Fast yes... but audi's don't talk back.... they just do........ Boring.... Beemers... the chassis talks.... rear wheel drive any day!!!!
They finally agreed on the same car, IT'S THE END OF TIMES
I see bmw finally caught on to the fact that people put "m" badges on their cars and up the price by 3-4 thousand dollars with that badge alone on the ignorant masses. I speak, however, on the older bmw (e46, e36 and e39s) models. I sometimes see a nice e39 540i sport come up on craigs and once i see that slapped on ///M on the rear i x out of the add.
shame.
+Henry Perez You know those peel right off, right?
those guys that have e46 328i's and slap the M decal on there thinking we don't notice lol
the guys that slap the decal on crooked are the most hilarious tho.
you'd have to be a real puttz to actually purchase a used one thinking it's a real M and not being able to tell the obvious differences
***** You are 100% correct. Same thing with AMG
My 50k? I would not buy either one.
Used M3 v8 and e46 Used ISF Used C63 Used RS4
E46 or RS4 for me. And you'll have money left over to buy something crazy sporty like an Elise or C6 Z06.
I'd get a used 2012+ S4, or a used cts-v or bmw 335i with money left over to mod it. Lol (I live in the USA, sadly there was few rs4's here. And I'd rather get s newer car anyway. )
Well well well what a review. was the M2 all wheel drive?? what was the price difference. Which car will be in the garage more often? If you tested a 2 wheel drive version vs a 4 wheel drive car I wonder if that changes the handling characteristics?? We all know what that is.
Just bought an S3. Love it.
I have kids and we live in a place that has winter! Need 4 doors and RWD isn’t practical.
If only America could get a hotter TDI version- that would be cool.
Wow guys this was a fantastic video. Very well done. As an S3 owner, and having driven an M235i for a week, I can say you literally covered everything perfectly. The only things I would add is that the steering feel in the S3 sucks and the BMW truly is the better drivers car due to seating position, RWD, and steering feed back. Also, it would have been nice if you had an automatic M235i to compare to just to level the playing field a bit. The auto is a ZF 8 speed and it's a fantastic unit and very fast. As for the S-tronic in the S3, you eventually learn to predict what it's going to do and then it sucks less. As a daily driver, its very comfortable and you can turn it into a little rocket with the flip of a switch. Either way, you can't go wrong with either car. Great job guys.
Only one comes with a manual transmission, so there's the winner.
Agreed, tho no one should be looking for a bargain when buying a German car, these definitely aren't bang for your buck cars
R comes in manual. "Not bang for your buck"? An R/S3 will crack 100 in 9.5 and 60 in 3.8 with a $500 tuning box (which doesn't affect warranty like an ECU tune). What new American or Japanese car does that for $40K?
Joel deSanto RS3 is likely not coming to the USA.
We are getting the RS3 sedan in 2016/17.
I wish we would get the hatch instead of a sedan...
There is a difference between the golf r and s3 and not just looks. There is a similar, but different driving feel. "S3 seems it hasn't reached it potential, as if held back." The car is made to feel luxurious driving fast and slow, not like the theme of bmw where their cars are all over the place, misbehaving, trying to keep it under control. And you just don't mention how good the s3's steering is, responsive, sharp and easy to control. Great on where people drive them 95% on the time, the open streets. Everyone says the same thing about bmw cars. Try making a real review not saying the same things
Yeah because the m235i is meant to be a sports car, hints at how you can get a manual. It’s not supposed to be car that you can completely floor around corners
That "screaming v6 sound" you hear, only comes from the speakers... lol
only?
Was he talking about the s3? Lol
S3 doesnt come in Manual....automatically loses
Love my S3 with the APR tune on it is perfect for everyday in traffic it is so easy to live with and the Audi interiors are just the best.
Just me? Or is the audio a little fucked towards the end?
If you are meaning during the stand off at the end it is the microphone brushing up against a shirt. :/
I wonder what the price will be in 5yrs. Awesome cars nevertheless, it own either one but preferable the BMW, the 3.0l turbo I think has more personality
BMWs are on the low 20s and the audi s3 are on the high 20s lol
I test drove numerous Audis. I had always wanted one and I hated them all! They are slow and basic. Even the new S4, compared to the old twinturbo V8 S4s are sooooo slow and sluggish! Also, if you want ANY luxury options you have to sell your virgin daughter. Audi is like a shy girl on a first date when it comes to even the most basic options....
M3 and M4 are a little out of my price range. I am military and the M2 isn't being released here in Germany for military exclusive buyers unfortunately. The stats on the M2 and the M235i are very comparable. I test drove a 2015 M235i and it blew me away! Not only does it feel like a luxury car with the 48 way adjustable seats, navigation system that updates you on weather and news, sound system, heated seats and steering wheel etc... but it is a MONSTER when you switch it to sport mode! You can actually feel the car hunker down like a cat ready to kill. It wants to eat every other car on the road. Luckily I got to test drive it on the autobahn so I could really open it up and see what it could do. As soon as we hit an unlimited speed area I flipped it to sport mode and mashed the pedal. It climbed from 80 mph to 150 mph in a matter of seconds and wanted to stay there. 150 mph felt like a 40 mph cruise. I thought the speedo was broken... I couldn't believe I was going that fast that soon!
I went right back to the dealership and signed the papers. If you're looking for true luxury/sport this is the car! If you want something that looks nice but has no balls, get an Audi!
Just for information purposes there was no twin turbo V8 S4 produced. It was a NA 4.2L B6 (2003-2005) and B7 (2005.5-2008)
B5 (2000-2002)S4 was a V6 twin turbo 2.7L
Been driving my 2016 m235i convertible for 5 months now and best 50k I've ever spent
Bought an M235. No contest for me.
Would appreciate your take on the Audi TTS Mk3 given its S3-similar engine and platform. Thanks! Keep the great videos and stand alone episodes coming.
get a Golf R, get a APR tune, then happy days.
What if we don't like hatchbacks ?
then get S3 and tune it from APR :D
Got an S3 2016 . I'm thinking about it still . . . Maybe ill just start with an Injen Air Intake first .
Erde Kaiser awe intake! Do itttt I have a 2015 S3 and it's gorgeous
And look like a dork. Hatchbacks are for kids.
just wait until the M2, which will probably be unveiled later this year.
Does anybody else feel like they went too deep into it lol like they are not making any sense in their explanations
I agonized over my car choice with the S3, M235i and Golf R all jockeying hard for my heart and soul and my cash. I ended up buying a very low-mileage used 2015 M235i in that gorgeous blue for just over $31k and could not possibly be more pleased with my decision. What a thrill ride this car is!
For $50k your in gt350 territory. I'd go with that. if it had to be German I'd go Golf R all the way.
For 50k you're in Chevy ss territory
***** Just awesome cars. I totally agree with the Chevy SS comment.
You could also buy 5 pretty nice used mx5s, and drive 4 of them off a cliff and still be in the black with the $50k lol
+Bilal Khan are you really trying to say the SS is better than a 350
tom Randy you mean 350z, im not sure what you mean by 350
It seems that the S3 was let down in this review by the comparisons to the Golf R which underpins it, and the money that going with the VW would save you. I think there's enough of a difference in the Audi to justify a lot of the price delta, and the dealer experience plus better warranty might make up the rest. One thing to note -- at 6'8" I am able to find a comfortable driving position in my friend's '15 A3 2.0T and my head is nowhere near touching the sunshade. In fact the room up front is remarkable given the size of the car, though it comes at the expense of back seat room.
I get the admiration for the M235i since it harkens back to its forebear E46, but that interior is seriously downmarket IMO. There is a lot to be said for a nice turbocharged inline 6 and no one does that better than BMW. RWD + that powertrain is a tough combination to beat, and if you're talking better driver's car I think putting the M235i on top was the right conclusion.
Got a M240i droptop last year and I love it!
I bought a M235 three days ago and love it so far.
I've never driven a M235i so I can't truly comment on this comparison. However, I can tell you that I traded in a 335is for an S3 and couldn't be happier with my decision. The S3 is a fantastic daily driver. It inspires confidence and handles like a dream. The first time I took my 335is on a ride in the North Carolina mountains I was very disappointed. It was white knuckle driving the entire trip. That same trip in my S3 was the most fun I've had in a long time (Since my STI). The S3 just says "how fast are you willing to go". The car makes you feel like a professional race car driver. I think a lot of this comes down to personal preference. The four cylinder Turbo AWD combination has always worked for me and I guess that's where I belong....that is until the 5 cylinder RS 3 comes out :). I just hope I can get/afford one when it comes stateside.
+Stephen Schwartz I agree with you about the S3 as I have one as well but to tell you the truth im bored with it now an am thinking of switching to the M235I Xdrive, that's just me :o)
Carl Moritz I understand completely. I get bored quickly too. I am sure the smaller Bimmer will be more fun than my old car. The 335is was an great luxury cruiser, but not a sporty drive. It did have an awesome engine though.
+Carl Moritz go drive it in the snow
+Stephen Schwartz new 3 series is soft. If you want the reputation which followed the 3 series that ended in the early 2000's. Now Bmw's sportier fun cars would be the 1/2 series.
just buy aftermarket suspension lol its not even that bad..h&r springs and its much better
I just love the normal size grille on this 235i. So much better then crazy oversize grille on new BMWs.
M235i needs 4 doors. I wonder how close an E90 335i could be built to match its character
future62 That would be called the M135i
+Josh Wensley We don't get those stateside :(
I know :(
Probably extremely easily. e90's share nearly identical suspension from an kinematic standpoint. I prefer E90 steering feel, a lot more effort required and more road feel, but the m235i, especially with the 8sp auto is FAST.
Great review guys, these just keep getting better and better. Thank you for being so thorough.
I think I would even go a step further and say why not just get a 4dr GTi Performance Package instead of the S3? People are just getting ECU reflashes and these cars are making 300hp. Throw in some real tires and you're still under 30 grand total. Still get a nice interior etc. AND gasp! A manual trans!
With that said, The M235i is the most appealing of the bunch by far. I agree that manual RWD is the way to go. Just wish this car could be called a bargain. Needs to be about 5 grand cheaper.
as a GTI owner, traction is the main reason you buy a Golf R or S3 over a GTI. AWD is necessary with the EA888 torque output when tuned
I got an m235 and its amazinggg!!
Thanks guys for a great review of both cars. I'm an older gent but I still appreciate great engineering and am not yet too far over the hill to enjoy a good tail out catch. I bought the m235i, mostly because it is rear wheel drive, AND you can turn the computer entirely off, but mostly what disappoints me about reviews of these cars is that they are done in hot, dry conditions. Are there no reviews from colder, wetter climates? I'm in Scotland and we have half a dozen hot, dry days a year if we're lucky so a wet review would be invaluable to people from higher latitudes. I know it sounds like 'grumble, grumble', but my previous car choice (f80 m3) was based on reviews like these but I had to get rid of the car because it was pointless in Scotland; as soon as I put my foot on the gas, the traction control had to correct for lost grip and if I turned it off, it would spin in a millisecond. I'm sure it's a fantastic car, but just not in my country. The M235i is a sweeter spot, but please, please try to do some reviews in cold wet conditions. It would save people like me from making my stupid mistakes. Thanks
seats in bmw are so ugly
+Srbija Srbima Yes I agree
+Srbija Srbima Not the X6 or X5
Chicken Strangler I mean in this one
BMW's sport seats (not including M3/4) are SUPER comfortable! I'll trade cool looking for comfort all day!
PLAY_HRD that I don't know, but audi one's are also comfortable
Gotta love the “short, muscular cheerleader in a great fitting dress” comment!! Nice visual!
hmm...one based on a budget golf...the other based on a 50:50 weight distributed rear wheel drive platform with a manual offering...I wonder which one the driving enthusiast will spend his/her hard earned money on...
thoravian Not only that but the Golf, sorry the Audi has a 2.0L 4cyl while the BMW has that silky straight 3.0L 6 cyl. There is simply no contest if you enjoy driving. Has always thought of Audi as fast luxury transport in total isolation and lack of any feedback.
bezor Ta audi is a comfortable fast train that you fall asleep in. Its perfect for my mom who hates driving and has no skill at it too.
***** I thought that was audi??
+thoravian Have you ever driven either? The S3 is a grown up WRX STI. I have owned both so I should have an idea of what I'm talking about. There are plenty of videos out here praising the S3 for how fun it is. I can tell you it's plenty fun. Now I would have probably preferred the VW R, but they came out later and are hard to find. Also, the first batch were not available with a sun roof which for me was a deal breaker. The Audi has great tech, a nice interior, I love the styling, and it's a blast to drive every day. Also, my BMW bottomed out daily where I live and I hated having to enter every parking lot at 2 mph to keep from scraping the car.
Stephen Schwartz no you havent :) and what can we do if you dont know how to drive a rear wheel drive car?
So EverydayDriver says s3 has more responsive throttle than golf R, evo says that the golf R throttle is more responsive than rs3. Really?
Alex Frey add a stage 1 or 2 tune to the golf r and it's perfect
for 50k I'm buying a GT350. and don't preach mark ups to me. through MAS its always at or under MSRP
I crossed shopped both of these cars, though the bimmer I wanted was the auto awd version. anyway never got to test drive the M nor was the few dealers I contacted really after my business, Audi was so I bought the S3. I like it but don't love it, and can see myself trading my S3 for the Bimmer very soon.
damn the audi looks 10x better inside.
Hi, can I have a little suggestion for you guys? It would be nice if you would write the information like weight and torque in Kilograms or Nm as well, being from Europe and loving your channel, it is sometimes difficult to have a good picture about the specs of the car without having to search for it, thanks!
Great job as always!
I bought an S3 simply because I fell in love with the exterior, the interior and all the options available in this car as well as standard AWD. The M235i cannot be specced as highly as the S3 and I really dislike its interior so I went for the S3. That being said, I am sure the BMW would have been more fun to drive since the S3 lacks soul. Maybe it's because it doesn't have that screaming V6 sound found in other cars. It goes about doing its job without any fuss or drama but then again that's what makes a car fun to drive and unfortunately the S3 isn't all that fun to be honest but I still love it for how well it does everything.
behemothinferno Good for you. If you are enjoying it and are happy with the purchase, that is all that matters. I totally agree with you that a huge turn off of the M235i is the interior... the interior seems fitting for a 30k car. And what is up with BMW's base leatherettes? They feel so cheap and plasticky. The S3 is a very well-rounded car that is a great deal more practical than the M23i (4 seats, AWD, etc).
I drove them and the Alfa Romeo Giulia too. For the price, I cant beat the interior of the S3 in terms of the technology, leather, and trims. Plus the fact that the BMW was slower, did not have all wheel drive, had worse interiors, and was still slightly more expensive than the S3 made no sense for someone who lives in a city that snows a lot and has decent amount of rain and even more potholes everywhere. I learned my lesson with the low profile bmw wheels. They're so fragile and expensive to replace. Audi is definitely the more practical choice when you buy with your head and not your heart. BMW and the Alfa were definitely more fun to drive but I was gonna feel let down with everything else inside the car and feel robbed. They're $50k cars. The interior, you know, the place where you spend 90% of your time with the car, should feel like a $50k car. Or at least a $40k. I got the S3 too in case you couldn't tell lol couldn't be happier. It's low key and always impresses whenever friends sit in it.
So after watching this, I went out and test drove an M235i to compare to my Audi TTS. I was surprised how much more powerful it felt than my TTS. It has power everywhere and virtually no turbo lag. Well done BMW. I have to get really aggressive with the accelerator to get going fast in the TTS, and it has lots of turbo lag below 4K. Feels very much like an old school turbo where the BMW feels like new tech turbo. Also the steering is so much better than my TTS. It has a nice weight as opposed to the very light steering I have. Now when it comes to aesthetics and interior quality/feel, Audi wins easily in my opinion. Not that the BMW is bad, but Audi is on another level.
Taking delivery of my M235i in two days! My fourth bimmer so far and super excited . I test drove both the Audi s3 and M235i and the BMW was by far the better car in terms of performance and overall fun. The s3 is a very tamed and smooth car with a better interior, while the M235i feels tail happy and raw.
Cool..see you in a ditch roadside when it starts to sprinkle!
to bad u didnt wait for m240i =Z
Just because you can't drive, doesn't mean he can't. See you understeering into a wall ;P
you guys give the best car reviews on the internet & youtube ... period. Thanks for another great comparison of 2 excellent cars.. I posted a link in my twitter account (@mikiewhite ) . thanks guys.
New M240i smashes the S3 to bits. 331 to the wheels.
Gary Doctor it's a cool car, I heard the steering is crappy though
And about 300lbs more, for the xDrive, which is the one that can be compared with the S3. The new S3 is just better, at everything. Its a shame really, I expected more from BMW.
I'm so glad things like the Ford Focus rs are going to exist and make things like the golf r and s3 seem a little lazy in the performance department
Had a 2017 RS and it was an absolute beast. The amount of grip, acceleration and top end power was absolutely phenomenal for a 4cyl. It feels like a tuned street racer from the factory haha. The ride, however, was unbearably stiff and the seats not built for people over 220lbs.
Muscular, short cheerleader, with a great fitting dress... That's hot. :p
Good video. Regarding the rear "float" on the S3 (13:03), I wonder what tire pressures were. Manual calls for front/rear, 39/36psi if 3 or less occupants. 44psi is full load as on the door sticker. The S3 grips significantly better with right pressures.
God, I miss my old e46 M3...I was lucky enough to buy a new one when they first came out with the SMG. Fast forward to 2016 and the new technology...they don't feel fast. I finally test drove the S3 today. Soft. That's all I can say. Audis are very nice cars. But, my god, I liked the feel of being a little out of control and having to stay alert. I drove the m235 a couple years ago too and it's just as soft. Bring back hard core editions that wants to kill you. Sure, you could slide off the road...but that's the fun of it. I know the ride is rougher but I felt so much more connected to the road in my old M3 and the mechanical sounding rev of the old car was so much more fun. Felt like a race car. I don't feel that in any of these cars. You barely hear the engine noise now. $50,000 is not the same money as it was 15 years ago, obviously. The cars feel cheaper and are made to be comfortable. That's my thoughts on these cars.
If I didn't live in western Washington, and if my wife didn't need to drive my car (manual vs. auto), and if I didn't have a child, I would have bought the M235i instead of my Golf R.
Bottom line, even non M BMWs are better than most Audis. You guys would probably choose the 228i over the Golf R. Am I right?
whats with that guy sounding like bateman from american psycho with the business cards llol
honestly, the 1 and 2 series are the only good bmws left. they're lightweight, still use power steering, and have good power for their size. they seem to be more "dialed in" than the larger models as well
***** The 2012 1 series is 1370kg www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicles/1series/3door/2012/showroom/technical_data/ I'm sure you can spec them to be heavier etc but the base model is light and fast enough even with the base 1.6l Turbo. I know cause I owned one. The 1 series is a great car with any engine.
***** Hi John, BMWs are obviously sporty road cars and they are excellent at that. Also I couldn't buy a Lotus here even if I wanted. No dealership in New Zealand.
+Ryukachoo they have the same steering as every other f-series except the M3/4
+john marsh Im pretty sure most people cant even fit in a lotus, and they dont have any dealerships in alot of countries. Lol
Recently, a number automag pundits have really dissed the M235i with very negative comments about the handling, steering feel, control, etc., and counsel moving to the M2 if you really want a good BMW. On balance however, I think the S3 is the better buy given that 90% of the buyers of either car will ever drive either one near its capabilities. The S3 is less expensive, better equipped and marginally faster plus it has, with proper tires, superior all-weather capability. Of course, the M235i can be had with the loved manual tranny that will cost you at trade-in (dealer will tell you "most people want automatics... do you think BMW is stupid?) and you can hang the tail out, but most folks will never intentionally do it. Try to be objective. Most 3 series are driven by wives whose hubbies want make them happy. BMW knows this, too.
Even though there's no substitute for the in-line 6 in this range of cars, I tend to side with the S3, not least for the more sophisticated styling. But to note, due to the larger available discounts on the m240i, an equivalent equipped S3 is the more expensive car in the UK.
Generally, that is not the case in the US. The M235i will costs $7-8k more when comparably equipped and that doesn't mean similarly equipped. The Quattro is a saver if one experiences much winter weather. Also, the S3 has tech that is not available on the M235i if one appreciates the safety of those add-ons. These reviewers look at the car from an enthusiast view when 95% of the buyers will never use the car beyond occasional straight line spurts. I've been through the enthusiast period auto crossing and going to the track with cars like a Cayman S, several Miatae, RX-8, Mini JCW, etc. This car is an everyday driver that is "under the radar" . The average person will likely think it's a Corolla and to me that's a plus. I'm passed the days of driving like a complete idiot on public roads.
Yes, from looking at US BMW forums I have found that similar discounts don't appear to apply. Regarding technologies, other than the virtual cockpit display (which is cool, but possibly irritating when in use), in the UK the range of available technologies is the same - i.e. driving assistant, park assist, speed limit display via cam etc. To note though, I tend to agree with your overall sentiments.
Jim Glass yeah agreed. audi is just better. bmw interior is outdated and it wont age as well as the audi. the audi is the better dd too. dont get me wrong, the bmw looks nice but the audi just looks better lol. buy a bmw RWD if u gonna track or auto it. the audi just the better car
4:36 ok......WHO'S GOT LICE.....
Excellent review guys! I was in the car market 7 months ago looking at these two cars along with the S4, STI, Golf R, C63. I wanted something fun that was also great in bad weather, comfy, fast, tunable, fits 4 adults. I ended up with a Golf R DSG.
I've always had rear drive cars and it's amazing how fast I can drive in bad weather now. The Haldex is a great performer on the road in bad weather.
Both are great cars, but it comes down to personal taste as they are both entirely different cars for different weather. Both can get deals on, but Bmw has more aggressive deals as their sales are down low.
I stopped listening after they mentioned cup-holders. Americans....
+betterbeavailable - We guess you're referring to the passing comment about plastic quality in the interior? Sadly, if you did stop watching there you missed most of this review and all of the discussion of handling, dynamics, power, and the stuff we are most concerned with. We'd hope you'd watch the full film and get a sense of what we do... no matter what you might think of Americans we suspect you'll find we're focused on the proper things. Thanks for you time!
+betterbeavailable dude your fuckin avatar is A6 not pagani. count the fuckin cup holders your car has LOL acting like you are better then a nationality pretty much shows me as much as I wanna know tho
On a better note
Nice vid guys, should do 1 on the m235i with xdrive would like to see the comparison of the AWD systems.
+Jeff E WTF are you talking about?
did you not read the OPs comment?
+Jeff E Yes. That's why I'm asking. You seem to have no idea about what you're talking about.
I love german cars too, and am considered a snob in some circles in regards to cars. My first german cars were BMW's so I guess I have a love for them. I'm still rocking an e36 M3 and won't let it go because it drives so damn good and has a perfect balance compared to newer BMW's. I'm still kicking myself for letting go of my e46. Should have never sold it.
I haven't been excited by any cars in over 10 years, but really am considering the M235. I'm on the fence about getting all-wheel drive since I live in Kansas where it snows and we have ice storms. I would prefer rear wheel drive but then I have a car that I can only drive on fair weather days. My E46 had x-drive and that was a bad ass car in the winter months. You could go anywhere in it. Anyway, I want a baby BMW that drives like an e46. Nothing against VW lovers, but their cars seem to be heaping piles problems in terms of reliability. BMW's aren't perfect either, but I had far fewer problems with them than friends of Audi/Volkswagesn.
I just hate my addiction to German cars, they cost too much to buy and maintain over the long haul. I wish there were better alternatives for less money. Maybe a Scion FRS is really where it is these days....
DigitallFlesh, did the E46 have X Drive? I didn’t think so...
What I really don't like about modern 4-cylinder cars are the their fake exhausts. Why does that 4cylinder need 2 exhauts more than the 6cylinder BMW?
Keddy Because Volkswagen loves selling products to posers and people interested in a sorta premium brand image.
I don't know why most of these reviewer all the time complain about the rear seats leg room and the head room on a compact sport sedan or coupe. who cares?!! Maybe this is why all the cool cars keep getting bigger and in some cases uglier.
Does the BMW have a blinker option ?
Mathieu H matching set, front and rear, part of luxury tech package.
MrNicholg not recommended thoug
We have them disconnected. 1st mod we do.
Really enjoyed this video. This is going to sound like a strange question for Todd and Paul but how would you guys rate the M235i against the Fiesta ST specifically in terms of driving fun and value? I realize they're in completely different price segments but I was really curious how they stack up against one another given that they both get such rave reviews. I have driven the M235i and I agree it's an outstanding car.
Golf R is the better buy then the S3. its not 10k more worth by any means.
WillieNillie Specially when it's exactly the same MQB based car.
90% of the people buying these cars aren't concerned with all this technical stuff. Does it look nice, does it sound good, is the interior modern and luxuries, how much Ps? Great I'll take it. I'm just glad they didn't do a pointless drift test.
Jesse D You partly buy a German engineered car for the technology that it has to offer, so that has some importance. That's what you pay for. The driving dynamics of a German car are usually more developed and tested than others. Its crazy to think that Mercedes, BMW, Audi all have engineers for each detail of the car moreso than other manufacturers.
Jesse D True that but 10%has more advertising abilities like word of mouth because of more expertise in driving and car tech.. ie. I turned away a few guys from likes of Peugeot 206 CC, Opel Vectra, Nissan Primera..for more driver engaging cars like Skyline, MX5, 325i.. Half of those 90% actually appreciates proper chassis and balance but they just don't know there is better alternative for he same money (or a bit dearer) or they don't have time nor patience to go around for testing of different brands/models.
there two wish washy. also no actual perf numbers like skidpad etc so review kind of sucks imo. carlos lago has them beat easy imo
I'm going to save you 20min's the S3 has NOTHING and I mean NOTHING on a m235, the BMW, has ALL the toys and is a fuqing beast
I have to disagree with you guys. you guys seem to only base the cars for canyon or track driving. I don't think the majority of the people who can afford these will only be using it for the track if at all. you need to base your opinion on daily more than just performance. relook at your comments and you see that you both are very biased towards only performance/track use. I do like performance too but it isn't the whole thing I look at only. I personally don't take any of my cars to the track and I can afford these cars. I don't like the bmw m235, I isn't daily friendly. a stick is great and love it but to drive around town and in traffic its just horrible plus I have been driving stick since I was 14 years old (almost 30 years ago). when I was looking for my next car, I test drove most of the cars in this category in 2012-2016 and the m235 interior was considered the less attractive in comparison to others. two door is annoying which makes the four door easier to daily use. I say daily because that's what 95% of everyone will be using it for. as for looks the S3 is way better than the m235 in every way. with that being said, the s3 has a lot of issues too like the transmission in partial or slow driving. I have no clue why they made it like this. its horrible in every way but a simple tune or remapping from the mfg can fix this. also the visibility is horrible with the high hood lines and high A pillars. there are other issues too. in the end I did end up buying an S3 2015 sedan. its the best of all the worst cars available now a days.
This comment is great! i especially look your final conclusion. Straight to the point. ;)
To be fair, m235 is standard with auto, so manual is non issue. Plus they said seats were better in m235i
Interesting what you are saying. I own a 2008 BMW 135i which is pretty much the same as this m235i. I LOVE how the car is practical in day to day use with lots of comfort on longer drives, amazing seats (I have cloth not leather, thank god!), good trunk-space with foldable rear seats, amazing engine sound and looks that I like (I know some hate 135 looks but I like it). And I have a stage 1+ tune from Cobb, making 62 mph-122 (100-200 km/h) in 9 seconds on the tacho. What is there not to love? I have an automatic transmission and it´s no problem around town.
The only thing I don´t like is that the interior now starts to squeak and rattle some after about 80 000 km (around 50 000 miles). I`m OCD about that for sure! Apart from that it´s a dream to drive and to own on a daily basis and I drive calm on 99 % of the time. Having a BLAST that other 1 % as well :)
Agathorn
The S3 is a 50k Jetta!!! The BMW is always going to be the better car for the money.
Would have been a nice triple header comparison to include the CLA45 AMG.
bstine20 That's in another league. None of these are proper M or RS versions, the CLA 45 is a legit AMG car. What you said would make sense with an RS3, the upcoming M2 and that A/CLA 45 AMG.
+Alex Serrano the S3 still beats the 45AMG though...
Eduardo Damy Beats on what? Looks, showing off?
+Alex Serrano That didn't stop Motor Trend from comparing the M235i to the CLA45 AMG in their Head 2 Head Ep.53
bstine20 So?
Excellent review as always. You guys are the best car channel. May I ask - you both love to drive the 235, but is it just as "ownable" if you just want to space out or dealing with traffic? Some cars, like the m3, have to be pushed at all times to be enjoyable. Is the 235 versatile in this regard?
Bimmer not beemer
karlmalone11 Its actually just BMW...
karlmalone11 beemer is fine
davy vermeiren If you're referring to a BMW motorcycle
davy vermeiren Beemer is a bmw motorcycle, bimmer is a bmw car
i know , but i dont like that word man , i think it sounds dumb and like a 13 year old came up with it, and if you say in my language ik rij me nen beemer nobody looks at you funny , but if inwould say ik rij me nen bimmer i would sound a little like a not very likeable person , so for me beemer is fine ! :)
Where's the review of the facelift '17 S3?