Blacksmith tongs from Square bar with drawn out reins
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- Опубліковано 6 лют 2018
- Continuing our look into tong making we will take another approach to making basic flat jaw forging tongs from 5/8" square bar. We will approach these by drawing out the tong reins first so that these tongs can be made without tongs. The jaws are approached from a more traditional manner.
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The following list provides just a few resources to help you find supplies and equipment for blacksmithing.
www.piehtoolco.com/
www.centaurforge.com/
www.blacksmithsdepot.com/
www.blacksmithbolt.com/
www.oldworldanvils.com/
www.nimbaanvils.com/
fontaninianvilandtool.com/
www.abana.org/
www.mcmaster.com
kensironstore.com/
Blacksmithing and related activities can be hazardous. These videos are not a substitute for competent professional instruction. Your safety is your sole responsibility. Always use appropriate safety equipment including eye and ear protection when working in the shop. Follow manufactures safety guidelines for the use of all equipment. In the event something shown in one of these videos seems unsafe, it is up to you to make the appropriate changes to protect yourself.
I've been slowly working my way through all of John's videos so I am really late to the party here. But seriously, when john sped up the video while drawing out on the horn, am I the only one who thought "he is the power hammer".
John, being an older video not sure if you'll see this comment or not. I love revisiting these videos as I learn more with a better understanding. When I re-watch these something just clicks and I end up being able to solve certain issues with a better understanding of how my issue came into play and what to do to solve them. Thanks for what you do for all of us out here trying to learn. I've accumulated quite the collection of blacksmithing literature in the past two years...I've found quite a bit on tong making, but it seems to be a pretty hit and miss subject, that's hard to imagine with them being such an essential tool to this craft. Mostly a couple styles dropped into a complete "how-to book of getting started" in blacksmithing. I've yet to find one book solely dedicated to the seemingly endless art of "Tong Making". If you know of any, that info would be greatly appreciated. If not...I believe it would be a "Best Seller"...Hint,Hint! I made my first pair from one of your videos(turned out pretty "wonky" but functional) seeking to improve I was lucky enough to make my second pair under the hands on instruction of Mr. Bill Epps. A simple pair of flat bit tongs, completed in an hour with with his "Patient" guidance😰lol!...lost count of how many times I heard "Stop Talking and Hit It! THE HEATS NOT GOING TO WAIT ON YOU!!!" (Very valuable lesson I've come to learn!) and my 82yr old Dad taking pictures...an experience I'll have for the rest of my days that Nothing can take from me and blacksmithing created the opportunity for! At that point I just wanted to beat on some steel and see what I might could make...that nights hammer in, actually the first one I'd ever been to. Was nothing like I nervously expected...no criticism of lack of knowledge or not having this "name brand tool or that"...but real passion of craftsmen just willing to share their knowledge of the craft! Then I saw your video exploring the odd West African style tongs...I was Hooked and just had to find out more of different styles and techniques. What happened then was a little crazy, I found that somehow "An Entire World of Culture and Passion" managed to fit into a 12'X20' makeshift Smithy! Sorry for the drawn out comment but I guess this is kind of My "What the Blacksmithing Community Means To Me" so anyone reading this that's just getting started or thinking about it...GO FOR IT!...HAMMER ON! You might love it or you might not, but I will say you won't ever forget or regret that part of "Your Own Journey" Watch the videos that these handful of UA-camrs tirelessly create and post, read some books, ask for help from others you find that do know or might know something to share with you(because they truly want to) and anytime you can, share what you've learned with the next! I can't speak for anyone else, but what I've experienced in my journey so far of learning this craft and figuring out what Blacksmithing is all about is a desire to learn, humbleness of where I fit into the successes and failures of those before me and their willingness to share both, a passion to recognize that and to do the same...that IS the Blacksmithing Community I found! John, I hope you don't mind me giving credit where's it's due here but also want to give credit to Mr. Roy Adams, Mr. Daniel Moss, Mr. Peter Ross(this list could go on forever)just to name a few modern Smith's that strive to share their knowledge...thank all of you! I came back to this particular video because I'm sitting on 4500' of 5/8" 1022 square stock that I was lucky enough to acquire and something just clicked about why you do what you do. Like I said, when I started forging a year and half ago I just wanted to whack on some steel and see if I could make something that someone might like that I could make money on. From your videos and encouragement I have found a passion for forging traditional tools and striving to learn as much as I can of how it was done to be able to pass on what I've learned to anyone wanting to learn one day so it can still be done. Can I make any money at this?...Maybe, maybe not...but it just hit me the last couple days of trying to figure that out, that what I really want...is to be able to be a viable part of the Blacksmithing Community as its been to me! I'm currently sitting on a tool collection of 127 various tools(when I counted yesterday). I bought a 3lb rounding hammer and a pair of v-bit tongs when I started and still forging on a piece of overhead crane rail and various pieces of discarded heavy equipment parts, maybe one day I'll cough up the cash for that "so called Real Anvil" but for now I'll credit you guys for the knowledge and drive to make whatever I need next...couldn't have done it without you! Decided to post this here because yours was the first channel that spawned that passion to learn as much as possible and continues to do so! Thank you Sir!!! Sorry for writing a book here but just wanted to share with you what you take the time to do does for real folks out here. BTW about to get started forging a 30 piece set of traditional Japanese copper smithing stakes I've been researching and sketching up for a few months now...thank you for opening up my mind! No way I could ever put a price on that!!!
One skill I’ve been blessed with is being naturally and fully ambidextrous. Whatever I do one way I can do the other just the same. It comes in handy for example if I’m hammering a bunch of nails in or something. The moment one arm begins to get tired I put the hammer in the other hand and continue that way. Even my guitar playing I play both left and right handed. Definitely a skill I’ll never give up.
In school I took welding and my teacher thought it was the neatest thing ever that I could lay down good clean beads either way. Wether it was Tig (when doing it left handed I even used my left foot on the pedal, my teacher challenged me to), mig or stick.
Been thinking about getting back into metal working as a hobby. Now that I have a detached garage I can easily turn into a shop I’m looking forward to doing it. I decided I’m going to do blacksmithing. It’s been 8 years since I’ve been out of school so I’m going to brush myself up on everything because it’s been a while. We’ll see how everything goes. I’m definitely going to my myself both sets of tongs. Probably be my first two projects when I get started. Maybe stamp a “L” and a “R” in them for which tong hand they’re for.
Thank you sir for your time to teach and explaining and making it easier for beginner blacksmiths like myself to understand , thank you again..
Your videos are so education, even the extra little advice helps so much
Why have I subscribed, this video is only one reason why! Its great instruction from a talented blacksmith who is easy to follow and just passing on his knowledge , thank you, I have learnt from you and will be a custodian of the skills you have shown me!
Mr. John, your teaching and narration of the process is awesome. Thank you for the video!
I am glad you found it helpful.
A Pair of Pants & a Pair of Underwear Are Just One as Well. At Least Tongs have 2 Seperate Pieces..
From one old man to another (BTW I'm older than you), another great video! I especially appreciated the speed up on the draw out of the reins. PLZ keep 'em coming.
It does get boring watching someone draw out a long taper.
I think I like this method better than the twisted jaws one you showed prior. Thanks John!!! Love your videos!
Good stuff John, thanks for all this infor on making tongs.
Excellent, as usual, thanks
John, the thumbnail for this video looks like you're driving a stake through the anvil's heart!! It doesn't seem too pleased about this.
thanks for the great videos!
Amazing to watch you work, thanks so much
Thanks for the video enjoyed it.
Your content is so helpful and encouraging, thank you and keep making videos!
Great Job
Love all your work your a great teacher
I enjoyed watching this thanks for these shows .
nice video Rick thanks for sharring your information always learn something from you
Awesome indeed yes. Thank you so much for this video uncle John 😊👌
Thanks John, Your videos are vary educational
Gunny
Thank you for the video, regards from BAJA MEXICO!!!
Thank you very much for this great lesson. As always, you've been very clear and illustrative. Please don't stop your teachings.
Have spent about a week watching your videos now. In the next few weeks I will be making a forge and get started. I want to eventually make all of my tools though I know that will take a while and a lot of practice. Thank you for these videos, so much information.
Very smart
Also a goodteacher
Love it i found some old shoehing gear works like a treat thanks for the great advise, you said it snow last night,wow ilive in Darwin nt Australia I wish it would snow here
Thanks for showing me how to make me some I'm new at this and this is going to be my first job that and the punches
Used this video as a good reference for making my first couple set of good tongs... used 3/4" round though. Goodness, that drawing out was some real practice haha 👍🏻
I wish I would have watched this before my 7th attempt at tongs, haha! Roll towards the tong hand for each set down, so easy to remember! I have one side forged and have since burnt a few reins in half. But I am hoping i will get there eventually. Thanks for the great vids as always!
Always a HUGE help. Please keep up the great videos! They are my favorite smithing vids on youtube!
Thank you
Definitely love the teaching style, and I enjoy the projects you've done. I've actually upped my skills by watching you, and Chandler Dickinson. I look forward to your next video. Thank you for the great content!
I'm glad the video instruction is helpful
It was great.
Thanks John for taking the time to share what you know. I learn so much from your video's.
You're welcome
I have made a couple pair of tongs at this point. I think it's time to do more!
This was such a great video. I've learned so much from watching you work. Thanks!
You're welcome
Absolutely fantastic and love watching your videos 👍 thank you so much for the time and effort you put into them, I’ve been inspired by you and your good work and have just bought myself a small gas forge and a 66lb Vevor Anvil , the hammer is still on the way 🤞I did buy my first pair of tongs 😮 but I’ve only just started watching the tong videos and promise I’ll make the rest of my tools myself, cut off tool for the hardy hole will be first and then punches 👍 thanks again for the video and I will always remember you for your work and giving me the confidence to get started 😊🙏
I love your videos (have watched them all), you are a great teacher!
Thank you. I am glad you survived some of those early ones.
thank you very much!
I learn so much from your videos, they are much appreciated!
Happy to hear that!
Good, very good.
Great, thanks, i have an old framing square to sac for the size gauge
I've made a few pairs of tongs now, and they're getting better, but they're still coming out sloppy in the joint.
Perhaps you could do a video on BAD tongs and how & where they went wrong, and how to troubleshoot the process.
Knowing what to do when everything goes right is good information, but knowing what to do when things go wrong is strong medicine.
Good Afternoon , John
Tongs are my Weak point ! So
I found this Video , Wonderful !
You go thru each step so smoothly and at the same time ,
Show it by Example ! This has helped me a a GREAT DEAL !
Thank you so much ! I have a much better understanding of the process ! Take Care and Be Safe ! Without a ,
KEEP HAMMERING !
Love that Swedish Style hammer - and the tongs of course!
The hammer is by William Bastas. Thanks
I do believe ur my new teacher I love how u do things and I love to watch you move metal I wish I could move metal that way but I'm still new so I'm sure I will soon
It will come with practice. Enjoy the journey
Do I get to say first?😜
You've got to do it at least once!
I have some 5/8 rebar should I square it first? or just work from round?
@@phredd6070 you can work from round it's the same process.
Maybe lol
Kkkk
@@phredd6070 that would work pretty well. (I know this is months and months late and you probably have made other pairs by now that are entirely different) I'd actually upset the ends to form a bit more mass for where the jaws and boss would be. Given the fact it is rebar, you might want to be a bit careful if you quench and perform an upset a bit more up the length from the end. This warning is due to the fact that rebar is unknown steel. There could be a chance that it is a hardenable variety of steel and quenching to perform the upset might result in a shattered end. If I were making tongs from rebar, I'd use something that is actually a bit thicker, like a couple more ticks on the ruler kind of thickness.
As much as people say rebar isn't really all too suitable for making things as smith, I like to give the stuff a chance. My coal rakes are made from rebar, my dipper handle is made from rebar, a pair pliers I made are of rebar, etc.
I was riveted again to your well explained video,tried this once from a book ,it was confusing to me.now that I see it I understand and cannot wait for the weekend to try again. Thank you so much, two thumbs up!
Gret, i do hope iot helps out. Sometimes you have to work through it a few times for it to sink in.
Thanks so much for the instructional videos John. I'm following along and doing many of your lessons in my shop. I have learned more technique from you in 4 months than I have discovered on my own in 3 years of brute force and ignorance. Explaining how you lay out your work and how to make things repeatable has been very, very helpful to me. I'm curious if you have made woodworking tools before? Would you consider doing videos on draw knifes, froes, axes, chisels... I'd love to learn how to properly layout and forge a socket. You have a real talent for teaching and creating these video and I hope you keep doing this.
I'm glad you are getting something out of the videos. I do quite a few simple woodworking tools. I have a video on forging a froe and several on adze making. I will plan on doing a draw knife and axe in the near future.
Thank you for making this video. I’m planning on making my first pair of tongs this week. They will be made out of 1/2” square bar, because that’s what I have right now, and I’m trying not to buy things unless I absolutely need to right now.
magnet magic!
Hello John, I love your videos and your style of smithing. I wanted to mention that I have been making tongs without tongs as a demonstration at a historical village and I do the reigns last. I take about a 22 inch piece of 5/8 square and forge the jaws first. I forge one on one end, cool it, then heat the other end and forge the other jaw. Then I draw out the middle for the reigns and cut them in half. Just another way to do it. Again, I love you videos, keep it up!
Good idea.
I have found myself of late knocking the rivets out of a few of the many flat jaw tongs I have made - and turning them in to other styles of tongs!
PS, I am about to start on my shed window grill today, so another week or two and I will be caught up with where you have go to.!
Must be time to get back to that project then.
Really enjoying watching your videos. I have learned a great deal. Could you have more input on the do’s and don’ts of hammer control such as push or pull and angle and type of hammer to use maybe there already is a video of this content somewhere thank you again.
I am glad you're enjoying the videos. I did discuss types and uses of hammers in an earlier video ua-cam.com/video/bi2vo75Zi_A/v-deo.html I will try to add something on technique.
Great video as always. Now I can see where I went wrong when I made tongs. I will have to try again soon. Thanks . (ps I am ordering the two sets of tongs from Ken's ironworks they are a good deal)
I am glad it helped
I am a big time newbie. I am working on a break drum wood fired with a hair drier blower. This is harder then it looks. If you go this way the first thing you will need is a welder. A steel shop for bar stock is a must. First you need gloves cut all wood down to about 8 inches by 1 1/2 no big stuff. First thing you need is a peace of 3/8 rod rerod ok, heat and flatten end for about 2 inches then bend 90 degrees for moving wood in forge. When JOhn says this is why I own a power hammer you will know what he is talking about as you will forgoing the
rains happy hammering.
its not an easy thing to make a good video. some people cant do it at all, others just badly. you seem to be quite good at it , even a natural. I appreciate your info, tutorials and advice, salute your achievements and look forward to future episodes. in a dog eat dog hostile world its refreshing to come across a genuine nice guy. I hope you are proud and happy, if not you should be! Thanks again and shine on baby, you rock!
Thanks, I appreciate the comment
Good John, can you do some v bit tongs not pre cut but from start from original stock?
John, I like your technique of drawing out the reins over the horn. I prefer that method as well. It makes for a much smoother, cleaner process as you work along the bar.
Some smiths profess that drawing out by setting down on and using the anvil face corner is faster and better. I personally find that the corner set down method tends to make deeper dents in the stock and then I have to spend more time smoothing out the dents as I progress along the bar. On occasion I have even developed cracks in the deep dents,... probably my fault for maybe forging too cool. I find that the horn method eliminates that problem as well.
Thanks
Good
Thanks for a great video as usual. Could you do slow motion clips to show the hammer blows? It is so subtle how much a small change in the angle the the hammer hits that, beginning smiths, such as myself, sometimes struggle with it. Thanks again.
I will try to do some. Often I end up speeding things up just to keep the video at a reasonable time.
This may be a bit late to reply...
A good way to check your hammer blows is to use a piece of flat board, about 1/2" to 3/4" thick, to simulate your general working stock thickness. Lay the board flat on the anvil and strike in your usual manner with the flat face hammer(s) you most commonly use. The shape of the dents will tell you if you are tilting the hammer to, fro or sideways. Sometimes, it's the anvil height that affects whether your hits are off plumb. You just have to work those variables out yourself.
hello from iraq with you amazing
Love your videos, very helpful... if only I could get a forge going. Gas is to expensive for me, and I was wondering if you could help me with since dimensions for one, or any advice on making one
I am sure I will be doing a video on gas forge construction before to long. In some areas coal or coke are still affordable options.
Black Bear Forge
Coal or coke forge is what I'm wanting
Torbjörn Åhman has a video on starting up, building a simple forge. You may find it encouraging. The video is here on youtube: ua-cam.com/video/m-R6iY-mY-Y/v-deo.html
Классный кузнец, респект 👍👍👍
I can watch BBF all day yo!
Always wondered the same thing about a pair of pants if I have one leg is it a pant?
Thanks for the gas forge explanation. I was wondering, since I am too timid to try it, when you fire the forge back up, have you inserted a fragment of wood to light up prior to turning it on, or provided there is enough glowing heat, will the gas just catch fire with nothing?
Should fire back up on it's own no problem as long as it hasn't cooled down too much
Hi John . Love your video's. At the current time , I don't know how to forge weld & no power hammer . I was thinking of making a larger set of tongs . My question is .
If I up set the jaw, boss & start of reins area up to next size . Leaving rein area at smaller dimensions then I wouldn't have so much work to draw out reins . Your opinion would the upsetting be more work than drawing out reins ?
I think it is if you can't get a perfect heat. Things upset in the wrong place ant you spend lots of time straightening. Now with the new induction forge and its ability to take a very controlled heat, I think I may try more controlled upsetting to see how it works.
Haha. What is the number I you want 2 pairs of anything.
In Denmark it's 4. I guess you Americans do math your own way 😉
Thanks for being a great teacher and meeting us beginners with our skills on our level. Many others want to show everything they as pro can manage. Thats total OK. But that is not the best way to teach beginners. You sir teach well 😊💪
Could you show using a couple wrenches for a pair of tongs. Using something irregular like that is where my son and i will be starting we don't have square or milled stock just some old tools from a garage sale and we are still building our first coal forge. Thank you for all of your excellent tutorials.
I have never heard of anyone using a couple of wrenches for tongs. you might look at these ua-cam.com/video/jd3Ld4AW1JQ/v-deo.html
I'm working on following this, but you don't say how long you made the reins. What is your preferred length?
Its not actually something I have a specific size for. I would guess around 16 - 18”
@@BlackBearForge thank you
Do you have any video or piece of advice for forging something round into something square without twisting it to a point that you need to untwist it with a vice ? Btw thank you for your videos you really help us out there !
You are probably twisting with your hammer tipped. try tipping the hammer slightly away from the side it is twisting toward.
Thank you I will try that !
Nice! What kind of steel do you recommend to make it? Thx sir
Just plain mild steel.
John what is the length from the center punch that you cut. Thanks great video
I am afraid I don't remember. Sorry I didn't put it in the video.
Very informative, as always! Made myself some thongs but there were small cracks in the jaw and I don't know why, don't think it was a cold shut. BTW is that you on the right on the site of the aurora fire rescue? Ps gargoyle is not wearing his hearing protection.
No, we all look the same though. I had to borrow the gargoyles ear muffs. Like most gargoyles he's stone deaf anyway.
Black Bear Forge 😁
Could we see making them under the power hammer please for comparison please Anthony Kent HAWK woodlore knives UK
I am sure i will do that as well. I wanted to make sure thiose without a power hammer knew it could be done without the big equipment.
I look forward to seeing you make them with the power hammer. I have no large tools just hand tools , a grinder and drill. But love to see skilled worker using power tools. Thank you for replying. Anthony Kent HAWK woodlore knives UK.
John could you do a video one time forging with that new little forge you built out of the firebrick?
Yes I will
Cheers mate.
Question for you, John...Is there a reason for the twist at the jaw? Would upsetting it to shape weaken it?
I don't recall a twist in this particular set of tongs.
Mr. John, I really like the hammer you are using, who made it and are they available in the same weight as yours?
That was made by William Bastas. I don't think he is selling them anymore.
Is there any benefit to the ball at the handle end of some tongs? Or is it just preference?
I suppose they may help balance the tongs or keep a tong clip in place. But since they aren't very common i don't think they are all that helpful in either application.
How long is the 5/8 bar before you center punch.
It looks like 24 inch but sure.
Thanks
I don't recall at this point. The big thing is to make sure it is long enough to hold onto comfortably. You can always cut some out before forging the jaws if there is to much
I would like to see you, Roy Adams, and Daniel Moss collaborate on a project.
That would be fun. but with each of us running a full time shop, it might be tough to coordinate.
Mr John do you make your rivets or order them? If made how do you make them? Tony
I buy the vast majority either from Jay-Cee Sales or McMaster Carr
John,
What to believe is easier. Flat stock tongs or bar stock tongs.
I think flat stock is easier, but square bar makes better tongs
@@BlackBearForge thank you
Is there a limit to how many times you can re-heat and forge metal before it looses it's quality?
I know this is four month old but if you still care
No there is not
Is it better to use mild steel or tool steel for tongs?
I prefer mild steel because you can quench the tongs if the get hot in use. That can ruin a pair of tool steel tongs. But many people do use tool steel so they can make lighter weight tongs with the same strength. They just don't quench them.
Do you hit it at the horn because that way you have less surface area?
Because the round shape moves the steel directionaly
your anvil rocks. maybe that might cause the ringing to be more prevalent as well. Is this intentional? I mean if it wouldn't, your strikes would be more effective right?
ua-cam.com/video/Z3365vFHXhw/v-deo.html
could you still get a reasonable size pair of tongs using 1/2 instead of 5/8
The main trouble with tongs from 1/2" is that there isn't enough material to get a good boss to support the joint. But I have made them and they are OK for very light work.
I have a bunch of used 3/8 rebar, can it be used to forge tongs?
It isn't my preferred material. Rebar is a medium carbon steel in most cases and it will be harder to forge and any flaws are more likely to break over time. However, if its all you have, then yes.
@@BlackBearForge thanks will look for something else
i am new to blacksmithing is the stock hot or cold rolled
In most cases hot roll. But the lower carbon cold rolled material would work if thats what you have. When buying new, hot rolled is usually cheaper.
I dont round my reins I like em octagon for grip
First attempt today. Burnt the jaw. Will try again
You'll get there. Its easy to burn things
Hello I'm trying now and every time I go to set the boss the jaw goes crooked with the boss , hard to explain but basically the boss stays in the middle and does not offset to one side of the blank
The hammer blows need to fall halfway on the anvil and halfway off so that the shoulder is created at the edge of the anvil with the flat surface being the one on the hammer side. I hope that make sense
Ok I will def be trying this and thank you for your patience and insight
Question: could you have drawn out those reins under the treadle hammer?
Yes you can. I rarely use the treadle hammer for that only because I have a power hammer. But it would be faster that doing it by hand
Black Bear Forge okay I don’t think I’ve ever seen you draw out under the treadle hammer.
Probably haven't for a video and like I say I don't have much reason to anymore. But if the treadle hammer was the only large tool I had I would use it for that.
What rivet size do you use for these?
5/16 for this size tongs
What is on your head?
John what is the width of your anvil.
5"
You need ear protection or you will go deaf later from the ringing
He's been doing this for years I think he's used to it
What did you say? 🙂
Seems to be the week of tongs. You've been making tongs. I uploaded a video where I made standard V-bit tongs. Christ Centered Ironworks made a video about beginner tong making methods. Daniel Moss made a video about why he thinks Christ Centered Ironworks was wrong... The Week of Tongs!
Maybe we should all coordinate more and have a good theme week every now and then. I will go watch yours, I have seen the others.
Thanks!
Let me know what you think of it. I know I have a habit of always forging down into a black heat rather than only working hot...