I love this Ancient Greek in action series so much. This is a perfect example of the supremacy of his format as opposed to purely reading it in a textbook. As always Luke, you are the man!
@@ScorpioMartianus I Agree This Method Is Clearly Superior To The Grammar/Translation Method Because It Is The Natural Way To Learn Language. For Example, As Children We Learned English This Way Because We Learned Simple Words And Phrases At First, And Over Time A Greater Number Of Words And Phrases Until We Were Able To Know Complex Sentences. The Emphasis Here Is Simply Learning How To Speak And Read Sentences. There Is No Grammar. By Starting Students Of Any Language At Any Age By Teaching Them Grammar, We Essentially Put The Cart Before The Horse. Grammar Is In Fact An Advanced Topic That Should Only Be Introduced When A Student Has At Least An Intermediate Speaking Ability. In Fact It Is Not Completely Necessary To Learn The Grammar At All. For Example We As Advanced English Speakers Read Complex Texts Without Even Once Summoning A Grammar Lesson. Grammar Really Only Becomes Necessary With Comparative Linguistics😃.
Hahahahah the confusion of the dual was really funny. Really well explained as well. The neutral using single verbs, too. These videos need more views! Thank you!
Ich musste zwar oft stoppen, lesen und nochmal hören, aber erneut ein wundervolles, lehrreiches und zum schreien komisches Video! Es macht so Spaß mit dir zu lernen! Ich merke, wie sehr mir das Geschriebene hilft das Gehörte zu verstehen!
Luke, nice work! I was surprised how much I could understand even knowing very little Greek and not having watched all the previous lessons. Great job acting the part of confused student 😂
Luke this is my first year studying latin and your videos are helping me so much to have good marks in the exams and they also give me a lot of vocabulary. Have a nice day from Teruel, a little town in Spain! P.S: I reciently subscribed to your channel and my classmates are also subscribed!
After all these years it was my first time I realised that "Εστίν" is also the plural "they are" for the neuter gender! Probably that's why in modern Greek the word "είναι" is used in both the "It is" and "they are"! Thank you very much!
I can practically *already* read Greek. Or at least the Greek alphabet. Because I see so many similarities between it and the Cyrillic alphabet. So I can at least take an educated guess as to how to pronounce written Greek words. It's so freaking fascinating! Спасибо за другое классное видео! ("Thank you for another cool video!") 😎😎😎😎
3:51 I've recently been working on a video to explain how to pronounce fantasy conlangs I've been working on, with real language examples, and I'm reassured that my καλός seems to sound exactly like yours x) Incredible work anyway !
Can you make a video explaining the tones in Ancient Greek? I’ve been trying to figure out how to pronounce them by watching your videos but I still can’t quite discern the difference.
I absolutely will be making a good one about this! In the meantime this non-public (but not private) video might help. Pitch Accent in Ancient Greek - what I do: ua-cam.com/video/v6Fj8gdjsNs/v-deo.html
Thank you for making these videos in the midst of everything else you have going on! I'm definitely sold on the Lucian pronunciation system, and I love hearing it spoken in these videos. I even appreciate the method of teaching Greek in this way. Well done sir.
Thanks very much! If you want to hear more Lucian Pronunciation, I have free recordings here with the green shamrock: lukeranieri.com/audio The book Athenaze, Kataskopos, and Polis are there
@@ScorpioMartianus Thank you. I've already been eyeing your reading of John's gospel from your store. I just wish I had the option to purchase it from itunes.
@@ksnunema iTunes is an interesting idea! Although part of the package is the cool PDFs that have every chapter with the text side by side so toh can compare the three languages. Short of a mobile app, I’m not sure how to incorporate those things through the digital Apple stores.
Actually, on the weirdness of the Attic syntax (as is known the phenomenon of neuter nouns and adjectives having a verb in the singular), I actually read about a pretty good explanation on it in an old grammar book, which said that "the Athenians perceived neuter nouns as things/inconscient and as such they weren't actors in reality, only existed. The only ones that can act upon the world in an independent matter, and as such count as a number of distinct individuals and not just a group, are masculine and feminine nouns" So for example τά ορνίθια means the little birds, and being little, they can't act upon the world. So, saying τά ορνίθια ίπταται really means to an Athenian that "The flock of birds is flying" and not "The birds are flying". But because we don't do that anymore, and haven't since late koine, it isn't really well attested to. Yeah, the Ancient Athenians clumped up non-acting (neuter) nouns in meaning as a group, and so even though they had plurals, their meaning was that of "a bunch of..."
About the dual being an except, I'm wondering how old that practice was, considering that in classical Greek it was already a bit out of fashioned, but also that we find it in different languages. For instance, in Japanese and Chinese, 2 has different way to be counted depending on if it refaits to a couple. In the other languages I know, there is no such thing, but maybe this concept exists elsewhere. I would be curious to know the anthropological or linguistical reason behind this.
Precisely! From my reading the plural with neuter is restricted to people and things with many parts, no? Like τὰ παιδία εἰσιν, τὰ σκέλη εἰσιν· www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0007%3Apart%3D4%3Achapter%3D34%3Asection%3D61%3Asubsection%3D69
@@ScorpioMartianus My συντακτικό states that neuter plural can make use of the so-called "αττική σύνταξη": Όταν το υποκείμενο του ρήματος είναι ουδέτερου γένους και πληθυντικού αριθμού, ενδέχεται το ρήμα να τίθεται στο γ′ ενικό πρόσωπο. Το φαινόμενο αυτό ονομάζεται *αττική σύνταξη* και δεν απαντά στη Ν[έα].Ε[λληνική].: Τὰ παιδία παίζει. Ταῦτα καλά ἐστι. ebooks.edu.gr/ebooks/v/html/8547/2326/Syntaktiko-Archaias-Ellinikis-Glossas_A-B-G-Gymnasiou_html-apli/index_01_03_a.html But Smyth gives examples of exceptions. I believe he's right when he says that, ("only"?) when we want to emphasize the plurality of the noun, we use a verb in plural.
Hi Luke! Wonderful content, as always. I was curious about your opinion on some rather pedantic considerations of mine - I may be wrong, but I recall reading somewhere that phonemic vowel length had begun to collapse in colloquial varieties of Greek already in the Hellenistic koine. I assume this process would have been complete in dialects like the Alexandrian by the time of the hypothetical Lucian pronunciation. Do you envision the historical equivalent of Lucian system to be a somewhat stagnated formal register that remained in use in elite circles? I am personally extremely fascinated by the reception of the archaic and classical metric systems by Greek poets long after phonemic vowel length had collapsed entirely, ie. in the case of Nonnus’s Dionysiaca. How would you personally approach reading/reciting literature from these stages of the language? I suppose the same issue is at stake in case of Renaissance Neo-Latin poetry that makes use of melic and elegiac meters.
Hi there! Thanks for watching and for the comment. I address a lot of this in my essay here: bit.ly/ranierigreekpronunciationguide Essentially, there are those who have looked at the Egyptian dialect of Koine, and assumed that, since it clearly was in the process of losing phonemic vowel length and pitch accent in the 2cBC (which is why the accent system was developed, in order to help the Egyptians speak Greek correctly), this much have occurred everywhere. The venerable Dr. Randall Buth is one of them. But the notion that all Greek had lost phonemic vowel length (proposed by Dr. Buth) is directly contradicted by Latin transcriptions of Greek, and even Latin speaking grammarians, who discuss the differences between spoken Latin and Greek, and consistently describe it as having phonemic vowel length as late as the 2cAD. Therefore an attempt to reconstruct Koine without phonemic vowel length or geminated consonants is isolating oneself to a very specific historical region and time (Egypt), which is not wrong at all per se, but should have no bearing on the rest of Greek, which evolved on a different path and doesn't share this characteristic with it until much later (4cAD is what Allen and Horrocks posit, and I concur.). But give my essay a read; see if it answers your question. If not, write to me again. 😊
@@ScorpioMartianus Thank you, that’s very helpful! I’m still curious to hear your personal opinion on the second point. It is perhaps even more pressing a question when it comes to Neo-Latin, since Byzantine poetry mostly eschews classical meters in favour of stress-timed forms, but there are still notable late figures like Nonnus and Agathias.
@@ruin.daniel If poetry is written with syllable length considerations, then it should be recited thus, since the poet knew how to recite it correctly. This is also true of the numerous Mediaeval Latin poets who wrote great hexameters. And the vast majority of 20th and 21st century Latin poetry is also written in Classical meters, and is intended to be recited thus.
So, assuming you're using your Lucian pronunciation, around what time the δασὺ πνεῦμα (spīritus asper in latin) was no more pronounced to signal voiceless glottal fricative (/h/) e.g. in the articles? As a result of this sound drop, the feminine singular article ἡ and the conjunction ἤ were pronounced the same, or the fact that the article was an enclitic while the conjuction has a grave accent still made a difference? By the way, great video and great job. I would love to see a video about the diacrital mark iota subscript, I know you can remove any of my doubts about that!
Thanks so much! I will be making a video about the iota subscript on polyMATHY to follow this series: ua-cam.com/video/BOqdrWlR4Gw/v-deo.html As for the spīritus asper, I do pronounce it in Standard Lucian. And yeah the accent mark changes the pitch contour of the phrase, so if the rough breathing is silent, then the pitch would still be different.
Yes! Dr. Rico asked me for my permission to put it on the site, and I said “gosh of course! What an honor.” I love Dr. Rico and Polis. Great institution
@@ScorpioMartianus You really should interview him on your channel sometime! In Latin, English or Greek, I don't mind (though I would need subtitles for Latin and Greek!)
Minime, sodale. Non in Imperio Romano. 😉 Oportet autem habere pronuntiam Hellenisticam, si vis rectium historicum loquere vel dicere, quam habet amicum nostrum in hanc pelliculam.
My favorite Indo-European languages by branch Germanic: Icelandic Hellenic: Ancient Greek Phrygian: Phrygian Celtic: Welsh Italic: Classical Latin Tocharian: Kuchean Albanian: Albanian Armenian: Eastern Armenian Baltic: Prussian Slavic: Polish Iranic: Pashto Indic: Sanskrit Nuristani: none so far, I currently know nothing about them
One thing I have to note. Although I'm not totally certain about this for ancient Greek, in modern Greek there is no allophone for λ, so the letter sounds exactly the same before all letters. It's not like the difference between κα and κε. λ, μ, ν all have allophones only in case they're preceded by two vowels, an (i) sounding one and then another vowel. This is very rare. For example, the ancient word ἡλιος (hēlios with a raised e) has become ήλιος (ilyos, two syllables i-lyos) but that's about it. And even like 50 years back it was pronounced i-li-os. So I don't think the ly sound existed in ancient Greek. What do you say?
I tend to agree! The can exist the glide, which usually is [ʝ] in MG, such as in γεια [ʝa] , which is the fricative version of the semivowel [j] like English "yes." The earliest evidence of the sound is for the glide between vowels, such as 5cBC ιγερου for ἱεροῦ, since [hijeruː] would be a very natural alternative to [hieruː]. But after lambda, probably not an ancient thing, just as you say.
Luke, I’m confused. The book LOGOS: LGPSI, which I’m beginning right now, teaches the «εισιν» form for the plural of neuter nouns, not «εστιν». For instance, «Ο Κερβερος και η Υδρα Ελλενικα θηρια εισιν».
Yes, that is one of things I critiqued when I submitted my review for Logos. I believe it’s an attempt at simplicity for the early chapters, a compromise to avoid overloading the student early.
Wait what? Masculine sounds like the poison Arsen? 😳😅 My brain goes like: männlich -> mächtig -> -> stark -> stark genug um zu töten -> Arsen 🤣🤣🤣 will never forget that vocabulary 😇
@@ScorpioMartianus Really?! Wow, I'm baffled and very impressed. *jaw drop*. Well, you are such a brilliant teacher you can change my worldview. *jaw still open *
Hearing ναι(?) is so confusing for a native Swedish speaker. In Swedish it sounds like the colloquial way of saying no (like English nope), "nä" or "näe" 😅
Why are masculine and feminine words described as "arsenikon" and "thelykon" (which, as far as I understand, are the neutral form of those adjectives) and not, say, "arsenikós" or "thelukê" (or even "thelykós", agreeing with a hidden "lógos" therein)? Sorry if this is a stupid question from a stupid scorpiunculus.
This confuses me. The first kaire is pronounced with a soft chi sound, and in your other video you made a point of saying it should be a hard k like in kite, in ancient greek.
I like your video... however i pronounce completely different some sounds... for example... I pronounce χ as ख [kh] in sanskrit not as german ch [ç]... αι as english I [ai] not as german ä... ει as english simple 'a' [ei] not as modern greek [i]... I try to pronounce ω as sanskrit औ [ɔ] and η as ऐ [ɛː] or [æ]
@@ScorpioMartianusKhaire didáskalos... I didn't know that system... according I read: the phonology of Lucian Pronunciation is derived from the sounds found in Ancient Greek from about the 2nd Century AD. It's respectful the pronunciation but I preffer those sounds from about fifth century BC... more ancient better
Salvē Lūcī, mihi est interrogātum. Nōn necesse esse putābam pōnere hunc articulum in sententiīs cum verbō esse sīcut "ego magister sum". Rēctus modus dīcendī esse igitur mihi vidēbātur hic: Εγώ διδάσκαλός ειμί, nōn εγώ ειμί ο διδάσκαλος Quid putās hāc dē rē?
The transition from dual to plural was as smooth as silk 👍
Χάριν σοι οἶδα, ὦ φίλε Ἀποστόλη!
"ἤ;" "ἤ!" "ἤ...;" "ἤ." "... ἤ."
I love this Ancient Greek in action series so much. This is a perfect example of the supremacy of his format as opposed to purely reading it in a textbook. As always Luke, you are the man!
Thanks very kindly! More to come
Yep, proves Krashen's theory once and for all in my mind.
@@ScorpioMartianus I Agree This Method Is Clearly Superior To The Grammar/Translation Method Because It Is The Natural Way To Learn Language. For Example, As Children We Learned English This Way Because We Learned Simple Words And Phrases At First, And Over Time A Greater Number Of Words And Phrases Until We Were Able To Know Complex Sentences. The Emphasis Here Is Simply Learning How To Speak And Read Sentences. There Is No Grammar. By Starting Students Of Any Language At Any Age By Teaching Them Grammar, We Essentially Put The Cart Before The Horse. Grammar Is In Fact An Advanced Topic That Should Only Be Introduced When A Student Has At Least An Intermediate Speaking Ability. In Fact It Is Not Completely Necessary To Learn The Grammar At All. For Example We As Advanced English Speakers Read Complex Texts Without Even Once Summoning A Grammar Lesson. Grammar Really Only Becomes Necessary With Comparative Linguistics😃.
It's so much fun to figure out the meaning of words just by watching. I get so excited whenever I figure out a new word.
That feeling you’re falling in love with a new language. I need more.
More on the way!
this Ancient Greek playlist is getting better every episode!
Thank you!
I love these videos. It's impossible not to learn with them. Thanks a lot, as always!
Thanks also to you for watching!
Hahahahah the confusion of the dual was really funny. Really well explained as well. The neutral using single verbs, too. These videos need more views! Thank you!
Thanks! I’ll be making more soon.
Ich musste zwar oft stoppen, lesen und nochmal hören, aber erneut ein wundervolles, lehrreiches und zum schreien komisches Video! Es macht so Spaß mit dir zu lernen! Ich merke, wie sehr mir das Geschriebene hilft das Gehörte zu verstehen!
Danke, Sabine! 😃
Χαῖρε, ὦ Λούκιε! Πῶς ἔχεις;
Τοῦτο, ὃν ποιεῖς ἵνα τὴν καλὴν Ἑλληνικὴν γλῶτταν μανθανώμεθα, θαυμάσιόν ἐστιν!
Εὐχαριστῶ σέ. 😊
Καὶ σοί γε οἶδα χάριτας!
Τοῦτο ὃ ποιεῖς (ὅς,ἥ,ὅ)
@@ciuisirats4359 ἀπολογοῦμαι ὀψὲ ἀποκρῑνάμενος καὶ χάριν σοι ἔχω. ἆρα καὶ σὺ τῆς Ἑλληνικῆς γλώττης μαθητής τις;
Son las mejores clases que he encontrado en todo internet.
Muchísmas gracias 😃
@@ScorpioMartianus How many words are there in Ancient Greek for "bird?"
@@edwardamosbrandwein3583 Two of them.
Thank You Luke Excellent As Always👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Luke, nice work! I was surprised how much I could understand even knowing very little Greek and not having watched all the previous lessons. Great job acting the part of confused student 😂
תודה רבה! 😃
Thanks so much! 🐢 ♥️
Luke this is my first year studying latin and your videos are helping me so much to have good marks in the exams and they also give me a lot of vocabulary.
Have a nice day from Teruel, a little town in Spain!
P.S: I reciently subscribed to your channel and my classmates are also subscribed!
¡Muchísimas gracias! That's such a nice thing to hear! I'm very glad you find my videos helpful.
I have been teaching myself Classical Greek for over a year. These videos are a great help. Please keep them coming. χαίρε
More to come!
Greek: Articles.
Latin: What the Hell are articles?
hahae
Quid sunt articulos?
@@iberius9937 Non cognosco 🙄
@@ΧρῆστοςΚωστελίδης-γ3φ 😄
Itane vero? Non habet articulos sed Imperium Orbis Terrarum. :D
I found the confusion and explanation really enjoyable and engaging!
Συνέχισε, Λουκά, καταπληκτικά τα βίντεο σου... Ευχαριστούμε!
Χάριν σοι οἶδα, ὦ φίλε! Μάλιστά γε διατελήσω! 😃
Thank you very much. It is a pleasure to learn greek with your lessons!
¡Eres un crack Lucas!
Thank you, Luke!
Excellent, thanks Luke for bringing the ancient Greek language close to its modern descendent.
After all these years it was my first time I realised that "Εστίν" is also the plural "they are" for the neuter gender! Probably that's why in modern Greek the word "είναι" is used in both the "It is" and "they are"! Thank you very much!
Ooh that’s an interesting idea!
Much respect for the work you put into these videos. Thank you!
Thanks so much!
Great as always!
Thank you!
@@ScorpioMartianus no, thank YOU for making this language actually learnable for folks without some godlike perseverance!
I'm happy these exist they are helpful for learning every day words, and sentences in ancient greek!
Ευχριστω σε!
Thanks! I’m glad you find them useful. Many more to come!
This video is great...it’s interesting how the words for ‘learning’, ‘listen’, ‘good’, and so many other words are very similar
Indeed!
I can practically *already* read Greek. Or at least the Greek alphabet. Because I see so many similarities between it and the Cyrillic alphabet. So I can at least take an educated guess as to how to pronounce written Greek words. It's so freaking fascinating!
Спасибо за другое классное видео! ("Thank you for another cool video!") 😎😎😎😎
Пожалуйста! И спасибо
3:51 I've recently been working on a video to explain how to pronounce fantasy conlangs I've been working on, with real language examples, and I'm reassured that my καλός seems to sound exactly like yours x)
Incredible work anyway !
Thank you so much for this lesson!
Ἥδομαι ὁρῶν σε ὦ φίλε Λούκιε τὴν ἑλληνικὴν διασπείρειν!
Κἀγὼ σὲ ταύτῃ ποιητικότατον λέγοντα!
Τερπομαι τοῖς σοῖς λελεγμένοις, ὦ φίλε Χρῆστε!
Μπράβο Λούκα!!
Great job as always
In alb language we have the word "di" - know & "dhash" ( έδωσα) - gave
In Persian “to know” is dānestan with a conjugated root of dān, and “to give” is dādan with a conjugated root of dah.
@@seand6482 interesting thanks
Dha - gave
Ai dha - he gave
E dhash - I gave it
Di - know
E di - i know
Thanks!
Love ur vids! 😀😀
Thank you so much!! More to come 😃
Una manera absolutemente genial de impartir El idioma
Math symbols used in writing, that's why these guys were so smart.
Danke Luke ♥♥♥
Une danke dir!
Thanks! Suas aulas são ótimas!
Obrigado, Luís!
Can you make a video explaining the tones in Ancient Greek? I’ve been trying to figure out how to pronounce them by watching your videos but I still can’t quite discern the difference.
I absolutely will be making a good one about this! In the meantime this non-public (but not private) video might help.
Pitch Accent in Ancient Greek - what I do:
ua-cam.com/video/v6Fj8gdjsNs/v-deo.html
Luke, may I make the smallest suggestion ever? @6:23 move δύο down to its own line so that it parallels the format of the above section.
So cool to see the Greek terms for their grammar!
Yeah! I love those. They're fun to say.
E? AAA! M! E?? - E! - E?!? E. e. 😂 Brilliant 😅👌 every student everytime when it comes to exceptions!!! 😅👏👏👏👏
Hahaha jaaaaa
Thank you for making these videos in the midst of everything else you have going on! I'm definitely sold on the Lucian pronunciation system, and I love hearing it spoken in these videos. I even appreciate the method of teaching Greek in this way. Well done sir.
Thanks very much! If you want to hear more Lucian Pronunciation, I have free recordings here with the green shamrock: lukeranieri.com/audio
The book Athenaze, Kataskopos, and Polis are there
@@ScorpioMartianus Thank you. I've already been eyeing your reading of John's gospel from your store. I just wish I had the option to purchase it from itunes.
(And Athenaze was my year one textbook. Listening to your readings brought back memories.)
@@ksnunema iTunes is an interesting idea! Although part of the package is the cool PDFs that have every chapter with the text side by side so toh can compare the three languages. Short of a mobile app, I’m not sure how to incorporate those things through the digital Apple stores.
3:19 me at the class
Hahaha
I know there's a video in which you're explaining the Lucian pronunciation you developed, but could you make a book available to learn it too?
I will! Also read this essay:
bit.ly/ranierigreekpronunciationguide
@@ScorpioMartianus Thank you very much.
Kalos! 😎😂🙏
Κούλ, πολύ ωραίο!
Actually, on the weirdness of the Attic syntax (as is known the phenomenon of neuter nouns and adjectives having a verb in the singular), I actually read about a pretty good explanation on it in an old grammar book, which said that "the Athenians perceived neuter nouns as things/inconscient and as such they weren't actors in reality, only existed. The only ones that can act upon the world in an independent matter, and as such count as a number of distinct individuals and not just a group, are masculine and feminine nouns" So for example τά ορνίθια means the little birds, and being little, they can't act upon the world. So, saying τά ορνίθια ίπταται really means to an Athenian that "The flock of birds is flying" and not "The birds are flying". But because we don't do that anymore, and haven't since late koine, it isn't really well attested to. Yeah, the Ancient Athenians clumped up non-acting (neuter) nouns in meaning as a group, and so even though they had plurals, their meaning was that of "a bunch of..."
About the dual being an except, I'm wondering how old that practice was, considering that in classical Greek it was already a bit out of fashioned, but also that we find it in different languages. For instance, in Japanese and Chinese, 2 has different way to be counted depending on if it refaits to a couple. In the other languages I know, there is no such thing, but maybe this concept exists elsewhere. I would be curious to know the anthropological or linguistical reason behind this.
Also, the fact that the neuter nouns take singular forms of a verb is not a canon per se. Some authors prefer singular, others plural
Precisely! From my reading the plural with neuter is restricted to people and things with many parts, no? Like τὰ παιδία εἰσιν, τὰ σκέλη εἰσιν· www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0007%3Apart%3D4%3Achapter%3D34%3Asection%3D61%3Asubsection%3D69
@@ScorpioMartianus My συντακτικό states that neuter plural can make use of the so-called "αττική σύνταξη":
Όταν το υποκείμενο του ρήματος είναι ουδέτερου γένους και πληθυντικού αριθμού, ενδέχεται το ρήμα να τίθεται στο γ′ ενικό πρόσωπο. Το φαινόμενο αυτό ονομάζεται *αττική σύνταξη* και δεν απαντά στη Ν[έα].Ε[λληνική].:
Τὰ παιδία παίζει.
Ταῦτα καλά ἐστι.
ebooks.edu.gr/ebooks/v/html/8547/2326/Syntaktiko-Archaias-Ellinikis-Glossas_A-B-G-Gymnasiou_html-apli/index_01_03_a.html
But Smyth gives examples of exceptions. I believe he's right when he says that, ("only"?) when we want to emphasize the plurality of the noun, we use a verb in plural.
I find it more useful to have the verb eimi placed at the front of the curriculum rather than tucked into the end because it’s athematic.
Hi Luke! Wonderful content, as always. I was curious about your opinion on some rather pedantic considerations of mine - I may be wrong, but I recall reading somewhere that phonemic vowel length had begun to collapse in colloquial varieties of Greek already in the Hellenistic koine. I assume this process would have been complete in dialects like the Alexandrian by the time of the hypothetical Lucian pronunciation. Do you envision the historical equivalent of Lucian system to be a somewhat stagnated formal register that remained in use in elite circles?
I am personally extremely fascinated by the reception of the archaic and classical metric systems by Greek poets long after phonemic vowel length had collapsed entirely, ie. in the case of Nonnus’s Dionysiaca. How would you personally approach reading/reciting literature from these stages of the language? I suppose the same issue is at stake in case of Renaissance Neo-Latin poetry that makes use of melic and elegiac meters.
Hi there! Thanks for watching and for the comment. I address a lot of this in my essay here: bit.ly/ranierigreekpronunciationguide
Essentially, there are those who have looked at the Egyptian dialect of Koine, and assumed that, since it clearly was in the process of losing phonemic vowel length and pitch accent in the 2cBC (which is why the accent system was developed, in order to help the Egyptians speak Greek correctly), this much have occurred everywhere. The venerable Dr. Randall Buth is one of them. But the notion that all Greek had lost phonemic vowel length (proposed by Dr. Buth) is directly contradicted by Latin transcriptions of Greek, and even Latin speaking grammarians, who discuss the differences between spoken Latin and Greek, and consistently describe it as having phonemic vowel length as late as the 2cAD. Therefore an attempt to reconstruct Koine without phonemic vowel length or geminated consonants is isolating oneself to a very specific historical region and time (Egypt), which is not wrong at all per se, but should have no bearing on the rest of Greek, which evolved on a different path and doesn't share this characteristic with it until much later (4cAD is what Allen and Horrocks posit, and I concur.).
But give my essay a read; see if it answers your question. If not, write to me again. 😊
@@ScorpioMartianus Thank you, that’s very helpful! I’m still curious to hear your personal opinion on the second point. It is perhaps even more pressing a question when it comes to Neo-Latin, since Byzantine poetry mostly eschews classical meters in favour of stress-timed forms, but there are still notable late figures like Nonnus and Agathias.
@@ruin.daniel If poetry is written with syllable length considerations, then it should be recited thus, since the poet knew how to recite it correctly. This is also true of the numerous Mediaeval Latin poets who wrote great hexameters.
And the vast majority of 20th and 21st century Latin poetry is also written in Classical meters, and is intended to be recited thus.
So, assuming you're using your Lucian pronunciation, around what time the δασὺ πνεῦμα (spīritus asper in latin) was no more pronounced to signal voiceless glottal fricative (/h/) e.g. in the articles? As a result of this sound drop, the feminine singular article ἡ and the conjunction ἤ were pronounced the same, or the fact that the article was an enclitic while the conjuction has a grave accent still made a difference?
By the way, great video and great job. I would love to see a video about the diacrital mark iota subscript, I know you can remove any of my doubts about that!
Thanks so much! I will be making a video about the iota subscript on polyMATHY to follow this series: ua-cam.com/video/BOqdrWlR4Gw/v-deo.html
As for the spīritus asper, I do pronounce it in Standard Lucian. And yeah the accent mark changes the pitch contour of the phrase, so if the rough breathing is silent, then the pitch would still be different.
Num idem construitur duālis numerus neutrī cum «ἀττικῇ συντάξει»? e.g. «δύο ποτηρίω ἐστίν»?
Bene rogās! Numquam vīdī. Proptem quam rem statim fōrmam duālis numerī ējicere mihi in animō ūsque ab initiō fuit (et sī ἀξιόλογον)
The previous one of these is featured on the Polis website.
Yes! Dr. Rico asked me for my permission to put it on the site, and I said “gosh of course! What an honor.” I love Dr. Rico and Polis. Great institution
@@ScorpioMartianus You really should interview him on your channel sometime! In Latin, English or Greek, I don't mind (though I would need subtitles for Latin and Greek!)
That’s a fine idea!
9:23 eee? eee. eee? eh.
😂😂😂
Hahahaha
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Estne schema Atticum obligatorium?
Minime, sodale. Non in Imperio Romano. 😉
Oportet autem habere pronuntiam Hellenisticam, si vis rectium historicum loquere vel dicere, quam habet amicum nostrum in hanc pelliculam.
Quod schēma dīcis? Schēma duālis, an syntaxis mea?
@@ScorpioMartianus Schema ad syntaxin neutrorum pluralium construendam verbo temporali singulari, intellego: estne obligatorium?
@@pasqualetortorella4559 Nōn crēdō obligātōrium esse, sed commūnissimum inter Atticōs scriptōrēs.
Πόσοι κάλαμοί εἰσι Σκορπίῳ Ἀρείῳ τῷ τῶν *Ἀλβίων βασιλεῖ; Τρεῖς.
Oh boy it goes good place my Patreon money! 👍🙏❤️
Thank you so much for being a patron, Zsolt!
My favorite Indo-European languages by branch
Germanic: Icelandic
Hellenic: Ancient Greek
Phrygian: Phrygian
Celtic: Welsh
Italic: Classical Latin
Tocharian: Kuchean
Albanian: Albanian
Armenian: Eastern Armenian
Baltic: Prussian
Slavic: Polish
Iranic: Pashto
Indic: Sanskrit
Nuristani: none so far, I currently know nothing about them
Hi, could you maybe do a Latin cover of “the plagues” from prince of Egypt?:) pleaseee
One thing I have to note. Although I'm not totally certain about this for ancient Greek, in modern Greek there is no allophone for λ, so the letter sounds exactly the same before all letters. It's not like the difference between κα and κε. λ, μ, ν all have allophones only in case they're preceded by two vowels, an (i) sounding one and then another vowel. This is very rare. For example, the ancient word ἡλιος (hēlios with a raised e) has become ήλιος (ilyos, two syllables i-lyos) but that's about it. And even like 50 years back it was pronounced i-li-os. So I don't think the ly sound existed in ancient Greek. What do you say?
I tend to agree! The can exist the glide, which usually is [ʝ] in MG, such as in γεια [ʝa] , which is the fricative version of the semivowel [j] like English "yes." The earliest evidence of the sound is for the glide between vowels, such as 5cBC ιγερου for ἱεροῦ, since [hijeruː] would be a very natural alternative to [hieruː]. But after lambda, probably not an ancient thing, just as you say.
Cool
Why They are the same?
Which? The Dual and Plural?
Muito legal latim
Luke, I’m confused. The book LOGOS: LGPSI, which I’m beginning right now, teaches the «εισιν» form for the plural of neuter nouns, not «εστιν». For instance, «Ο Κερβερος και η Υδρα Ελλενικα θηρια εισιν».
Yes, that is one of things I critiqued when I submitted my review for Logos. I believe it’s an attempt at simplicity for the early chapters, a compromise to avoid overloading the student early.
Wait what? Masculine sounds like the poison Arsen? 😳😅 My brain goes like: männlich -> mächtig -> -> stark -> stark genug um zu töten -> Arsen 🤣🤣🤣 will never forget that vocabulary 😇
Yes! Arsenic is apparently from the same origin
@@ScorpioMartianus Really?! Wow, I'm baffled and very impressed. *jaw drop*. Well, you are such a brilliant teacher you can change my worldview. *jaw still open *
Can you make bilingual subtitles? Intersting video, thank you
Hi there! check the description
Hearing ναι(?) is so confusing for a native Swedish speaker. In Swedish it sounds like the colloquial way of saying no (like English nope), "nä" or "näe" 😅
Why are masculine and feminine words described as "arsenikon" and "thelykon" (which, as far as I understand, are the neutral form of those adjectives) and not, say, "arsenikós" or "thelukê" (or even "thelykós", agreeing with a hidden "lógos" therein)? Sorry if this is a stupid question from a stupid scorpiunculus.
A very good question! The word for grammatical gender is “τὸ γένος”, which is neuter. So these adjectives are describing the word γένος
@@ScorpioMartianus So that's why "hydríai" is "plethyntikós", because it agrees with "arithmós"?
Did the Romans have trouble pronouncing the Greek θ?
Undoubtedly.
Absolutely, both the older [tʰ] and later [θ] sounds, as they don't occur in Latin.
@@ScorpioMartianus That's one thing, among many, that makes Greek closer to the Germanic and even Indo-Iranic family than to Italo-Celtic.
Scitisne cur nōn Διδασκαλία est femininum?
Διδασκαλία est doctrina, non doctor.
Πόσοι ὀφθαλμοί εἰσί σοι, ὦ Ἄργε; Ἑκατόν, ἐπεὶ φυλάττω τὴν Ἰοῦν.
3:33 ποινήν ποιηθήτω τῇ ἀπερισκεψίᾳ! Εγώ δε ἐτιμωρούμην ἄν εἰ οὕτως ἀπρόσεκτος εἴην 😂
Χάριν σοῖ ἀμέτρητον ἔχομεν, ὧς πάντοτε, φίλτατε Λουκά!
Καὶ σοί γε οἶδα πολλὰ̄ς χάριτας, ὤριστε!
0:27 μεν...δε is on the one hand... on the other hand. Literally 😂
Yes! I hoped it would be helpful to clarify μέν...δέ by literally doing just that. Thanks for noticing!
This confuses me. The first kaire is pronounced with a soft chi sound, and in your other video you made a point of saying it should be a hard k like in kite, in ancient greek.
I explain here ua-cam.com/video/Dt9z5Gvp3MM/v-deo.html
Πόσαι ἀδελφαί εἰσί σοι, ὦ Θωμᾶ; Τρεῖς, ὧν ἡ μὲν Ἀληκτώ, ἡ δὲ Τεισιφόνη, ἡ δὲ Μέγαιρα καλεῖται.
X. An. 2.4.16 Πρόξενος εἶπεν ὅτι αὐτός εἰμι ὃν ζητεῖς.
Πόσοι δακτύλιοι ἐδόθησαν τοῖς τῶν *Ἀλβίων βασιλεῦσι τοῖς ὑπαιθρίοις; Τρεῖς.
Old English had dual pronouns, but ancient Greek showed me that there can be duo verbs and nouns and adjectives. (1975 again!)
Is that how my ancestors pronounced the Hta?
Yes: ua-cam.com/video/KS5POB2rLsw/v-deo.htmlsi=elrz1Jd8u7gyM_2h
I like your video... however i pronounce completely different some sounds... for example... I pronounce χ as ख [kh] in sanskrit not as german ch [ç]... αι as english I [ai] not as german ä... ει as english simple 'a' [ei] not as modern greek [i]... I try to pronounce ω as sanskrit औ [ɔ] and η as ऐ [ɛː] or [æ]
This is the Lucian Pronunciation of Ancient Greek. See the description
@@ScorpioMartianusKhaire didáskalos... I didn't know that system... according I read: the phonology of Lucian Pronunciation is derived from the sounds found in Ancient Greek from about the 2nd Century AD. It's respectful the pronunciation but I preffer those sounds from about fifth century BC... more ancient better
Πόσοι δακτύλιοι ἐτεχνήθησαν τῷ κελαινῷ δεσπότῃ τῷ ἐπεὶ τοῦ κελαινοῦ θρόνου; Εἷς.
Ποῦ εἴκοσι δακτύλιοι ἐτεχνηθήσαν; Ἐν τῷ *Μόρδορι τῇ σκοταίᾳ γῇ.
Salvē Lūcī, mihi est interrogātum. Nōn necesse esse putābam pōnere hunc articulum in sententiīs cum verbō esse sīcut "ego magister sum". Rēctus modus dīcendī esse igitur mihi vidēbātur hic: Εγώ διδάσκαλός ειμί, nōn εγώ ειμί ο διδάσκαλος
Quid putās hāc dē rē?
“I am the teacher, and you are the student,” nōn “a teacher/student” dīxī
Πόσοι δακτύλιοι ἐδόθησαν τοῖς βροτοῖς ἀνδράσιν, οἳ μέλλουσί ποτε ἀποθανεῖσθαι; Ἐννέα.
Πόσοι δακτύλιοι ἐδόθησαν τοῖς τῶν νάνων ἄρχουσι τοῖς ἐν τοῖς περιστύλοις λίθου; Ἑπτά.
I know ancient Greek, why am i here?
Δύο τέρατέ ἐστον, οἷν ὁ μὲν δράκων ὑπερμεγέθης ἐστίν, ὁ δὲ πάμμεγας πίθηκος. Καλεῖται μὲν οὖν ὁ μὲν *Γώζιλλα, ὁ δὲ *Κόγγος ὁ βασιλεύς. Μάχεσθον δὲ τὼ τέρατε ἀλλήλοιν.
I feel there are similarities to Lithuanian.
Φιλω τουτον!
😃
Why "κάλαμος"?
I think "μελανοφόρος στυλεός" would be better.
Because that’s what it’s called.
All a little too fast for me
Noted! Thanks for the feedback. Do you know that you can change the playback speed ok a UA-cam video? I find this very helpful.
Τὰ τέρατα καλλίονά ἐστι τῶν δένδρων. Οὐ γὰρ τὰ δένδρα κῑνεῖται οὐδὲ πάσᾱς πόλεις διαφθείρει.
When I was in university in the '80's the only thing we had was The Sound of Greek.. It was awful, μὰ Δία.
-Ή!
-Eh?
:)
Haha 😃
Ἆρα Σκορπίος Ἄρειος οὐδέτερός ἐστιν; Οὐδαμῶς. Ἔστιν γὰρ ἀρρενικός. Ἦ Θωμᾶς ἀρρενικός ἐστίν; Οὐκ ἔστιν ὁ Θωμᾶς ἀρρενικός, ἀλλ᾿ οὐδέτερος ἅτε *ἐξώγειός (alien) γε ὤν.
ἢ
omg did you quit latin :'(
haha nope! I just want all Latin speakers to be able to become Ancient Greek speakers too if they wish.
first seconds listening: is it Japanese?...
ἢἢἢἢἢἢἢἢἢἢἢἢἢἢἢἢ