That was the most frustrating part. Filoni should know how devastating a Star Destroyer bombardment is. It was inexcusable they were able to survive that ride.
I hope Timothy Zahn is promoted even higher up for writing on the next series/movie. I know he gave Filoni his blessing for the Ahsoka series but we need him to be more hands on for a true accurate portrayal of Thrawn.
Zhan will approve of anything for the paycheck. He will approve as they charge his work and ruin his characters Or charge his characters backstory . As he has before because they pay him and gave him more books to write. Sadly. To alter his better story to fit Disney Canon. Or let dave take a thrawn book tactic and give it to ashkoa in clone wars season one.
Why would he get more hands on? He's already got his money. cha-chaaaaaang!$$$ I'd love to see some of his original stuff made into series more than try to salvage this dumpster fire of a franchise.
@@ericp1139 yes they could use sone military consultants just for the hearing scenes or reporting to the government. Ever see a general talk like that to a senator ? Or anyone in active military not speaking respectfully on duty ? Or political consultant. ( or just some simple research. Mon mothma outrank leia. And akbar shul be in charge of hera . . Not to mention corruption and perjury.
Now compare it to the how the TIE’s were portrayed when they scrambled in Andor Eye of Aldhani episode. There was so much suspense and they actually felt threatening.
Writers all have their weak points. Some write badass villains but bungle their way through writing heroes, and some write amazing heroes, but can't write a compelling villain to save their life. Filoni has his strengths. With Thrawn, I really do think he needs to consult Timothy Zahn in order to shore up his weak points. There's nothing bad about asking help from someone who knows how to create specific character types that a writer has trouble with. Me, here, I suck at writing villains, so I've been consulting with a friend who's an insane villain creator.
Star Wars doesn’t need Filoni to flex his strengths as much as it needs him to hire help to cover his weaknesses, which Dave and Jon simply don’t do enough of:
@@scrimshaw7470 since its behind closed doors for all we know, Iger, Chapak, and their minions might be denying them writers, but given the budgets they greenlight it literally wouldn’t add up 🤷♂️ My most generous assessment is that Kathleen and her assistants were dismayed at the ‘written by committee’ conclusion by which audiences disapproved of the sequels whether true or not; this and the impression Favreau made with Mando s1 informs a position of letting her star warriors run their fiefdoms as they choose so long product shows up and gets clicks Also, a more laid back Thrawn has Dave giving Jon a lower grading curve by which to write Moff Gideon and vice-versa: Jon [stunt]casts Giancarlo to preen and impose, but can’t really overclock and raise the bar by which the audience will be intimidated by Thrawn… I enjoy Favreau, but it’s amazing how they figured out how to both circlejerk and reversedraft 🏎️ for one another
I feel like Thrawns decisions were based on movie logic, I don't like it, but that is the way they make sense. He knows somehow that the universe will try very hard to make him loose, so he chooses to loose in a way where he actually wins, limiting the amount of things he sacrifices every step of the way. If he had sent a whole squadron of tie fighters then by movie logic they would have somehow failed anyway, and that would be worse for him :P.
That would be a curious thing, a character who realizes that they are a villain in a movie, and therefore actual victory is impossible, so they aim for an eternal stalemate.
He even failed at conserving his resources by being so "prudent". By being restrictive with troop deployments he ultimately allowed for larger losses and essentially was defeated in detail several times by a vastly inferior force. Tactics 101: Play to your strengths. If the writers aren't good at writing military tactics, don't expect a brilliant Thrawn on the show.
They couldn't write what wouldve happened if it actually worked as intended or it would have ended the series right there and broken the plot armor and hero dynamic. It's very sad but had to be that way for a general audience.
@@lentztui just wanna say, when you have an overwhelming force of soldiers, sometimes all you gotta wait for is the lucky shooters that end it. training bwah, who needs that when you have thousands of soldiers shooting thousands of lazers (not thrawns as they are limited, but not trained in the slightest due to being used to having an ultimate army of millions.)
The problem with the night trooper scene is that it was made in the volume, they all basically either stand still or go around in a circle, it gets a lot better when they go up the stairs
Yeah did you see that there all slow and Brutish movements then suddenly there moveing normally firing there guns at random things normally and running and using explosives to get by sealed doors. Totally normal undead troopers.
I think the first couple of moments of being brought back is kinda waking up from one of those "3 year" naps .... but once they get the connections setup they start moving like their old selves.@@alexshinra6722
Biggest blunder he did was to not move the ship away from the tower once loading was complete to prevent anyone boarding. THEN start link up of the giant hyperspace ring.
@@TerminallyChill85 yup but then they might comandeer a shuttle faster load way they did but lift off the tower the second the last pod hit deck plating
Either the force is actively thwarting Thrawn or Ahsoka and crew has some major plot armor. They literally survived a barrage from a Star Destroyer and Thrawn’s security detail has been very Complicate with a Jedi managing to sneak onboard despite having this very issue onboard with the very same jedi KNOWN to disguise themselves as a Trooper, that trooper then somehow manages to avoid detection and steal a republic era ship and fly out of Dathomir, without being detected. Thrawn is destined to lose and it shows considering on his security detail alone.
I did appreciate that they kept with Ezra's reaction to respond with an affirmative into the trooper's com regarding reinforcements being sent instead of going full Han Solo with "negative, negative, we have a reactor leak here. Very large. Very dangerous." That response will let him hide more efficiently as long as he stays in that armor. There are no other Force sensitives on board that can sense him and be all like, "Wait a minute..."
One thing Was On their Side. Those Huge Laser/Batteries are made to Fire on another Ship Closer To To the Size of a Space Frigate. Ie a Much much Smaller Target is going to be harder to hit. and those Wolf/Rat things Are like a Horse. Probably going 40 Ish MPH. But still Its More likely the Blast of Debris (Any rocks exploding etc. would have hit them) But yea the chances to get across without getting a Boulder upside the head was Not in their favor. (The force Plot Armor Works in Mysterious ways lmao)
Well, the bigger the naval guns, the longer it takes em to traverse and adjust, so you use smaller guns, and then, oh, right, everyone's Force sensitive if not armored, too. (And besides, Ezra's not only good at stealing Stormtrooper armor, he's practiced doing mind-tricks in em and that's a huge, vastly-understaffed ISD. Pretty likely he'd boosted Skoll's old shuttle, (or duped someone into dumping it in space with him aboard ) before they even got near Dathomir.
Yeah, him getting away was not a tough sell, he has skills and has done it before. I'd think Thrawn should have been looking for it, but the show must go on, so it's not a stretch that hurts to make.@@OllamhDrab
Agreed I was let down that his stormtroopers did nothing that you would see any other trooper do. Which is miss every lethal shot and get cut down mid melee.
You remember when Thrawn used to perfectly postion his assets in order to utilize them to maximum effect? How best to use an incredibly smart and capable industrialst with enough connections to covertly build a never before seen piece of technology and has just been initiated into the inner circle of the allies your plan depends on? Send her to slow down a Jedi. Classic Thrawn. Bravo, Filoni.
Would have been very interesting if Thrawn had been cornered to confess to Morgan that everything we saw; inventory and men were literally all he had left. That the Chimeras repulsor lifts were the only propulsion, power and fuel that remained. Show the barely air tight Chimera shuddering, creaking and groaning to stay aloft. I know it's only real purpose now was as a promised shipping container, but it'd been cool to have someone insist that they simply return on the EYE. One or two lines to illustrate his unwillingness to abandon the repairable Chimera, to confess it's inability to move, his inability to overwhelm, his need to settle for delay-defend-distract and sacrifice as his only strategies. To show how Morgan had simultaneously offered him a rescue and put him near check-mate by bringing the Jedi. That's what cost Morgan her life. King sacrifices Queen near check-mate.
Thumbs up and hard agree, I believe that this is what Filoni likely wanted to portray, but the execution was lacking. It wouldn't take much either, during the part where Thrawn was talking to Morgan about tactics, he could've added that given his current resources and situation, there's nothing he can do except for delay-defend-distract and sacrifice
Overall, I hope Filoni gives Thrawn a decent ending, and Thrawn isn't nerfed anymore due to Plot Armor. Cause he's already been undermined by THE weakest ISD Bombardment ever. Granted, Rebels did this too. Base Delta Zero can't be a thing in Disney Star Wars cause it would take forever to pull it off for these ISD 1's and 2's
I hope Filoni is able to give Ahsoka any kind of ending. But that's just wishful thinking since Filoni is obsessed with keeping his Mary Sue character alive.
tie fighters could have just hovered and fired away. And yes, thrawn could have left within the first 5 minutes of the episode. So the other 35 minutes of losing troopers and etc. etc was completely unnecessary
His ship couldn't even leave atmo. He needed the ring to come down and hook up. That didn't happen until later after loading. Thrawn should've had the ring hook up once Ahsoka was on the planet as there would be no reason for it to stay in orbit, unless it was clearing mines for when they left. Which we saw no mines when they left.
I find is absolutely dumb that thrawn didn't already have the cargo loaded onto his Star Destroyer before Morgan arrived. There's literally no reason for this and its not explained why it wasn't done in the show.
@@uhagi6720 the cargo part was one of the few spots I had no trouble with, maybe the cargo couldn't be loaded onto the ship until the Eye arrived due to 'shelf life' issues, or maybe the Great Mothers would only allow them to be loaded when Morgan arrived and return was assured. not too much of a stretch and didn't seem like something that needed explaining. The other errors people have been pointing out are far more of an issue than this.
@@uhagi6720 why would the great mothers agree to have their undead nightbrothers or whatever loaded on Thrawn's ship if they didn't know if Morgan would actually come to get them or not?
a minor defence of Thrawn is that he did wait until it was confirmed that Morgan had died before firing on the tower. but agree with most of the other points, plus Thrawn could've called the Eye of Scion down before all the cargo was loaded so that his ship could connect to the ring right away. that ending really messed up my enjoyment of an otherwise entertaining show.
You could argue that bringing the Eye of Sion down too early would've made it vulnerable to an assault from Ashoka's ship, and if the Eye were damaged during such an assault, they would've been delayed even more. It's really important to keep your only means of escaping a galaxy safe.
I feel like this is one of the major problems with Thrawn. Like if Thrawn was actually Thrawn he would be too overpowered so in order to actually have the good guys win the story writers have to either make him a normal imperial officer, something he is way to good for, or make the good guys come up with some McGuffin to beat him. Or a little of both.
Thanks for saying it, I was subconsciously thinking that without even realizing it. It’s hard to do live action adaptations. That’s the only reason why I’m forgiving to some but not all of the latest Star Wars properties.
Very true, this goes back all the way to Rebels with how they beat him then. The problem with writing genius villains (in any media) is that they’re far easier to build up as a threat than they are to bring down when it comes time. In Rebels when the writers needed Thrawn to lose they took the route of making him near-perfect but constantly undermined by his idiot subordinates just to keep it a scenario where the good guys COULD logically win. Filoni could have done this again and had some surviving officers with him serve as Thrawn’s handicap, but after 10 years there’s no way he would have kept them around. Morgan Elsbeth could have been the fool, but then that would have made HER character worse after being so competent earlier in the season. The problem is that they wrote themselves into a bad corner where they couldn’t think of a logical weakness for Thrawn in the scenario they put him in. Tbh the only change I can think of that might have worked without messing something else up would be if a portion of the New Republic fleet somehow hitched a ride with the Eye of Scion, making Thrawn the underdog in this scenario instead of the one with the upper hand, then he outsmarts them and leaves them stranded. Which would have changed the whole plot on Peridia and required a lot of changes in the first half of the season to properly set up. All in all, a hypothetical plot that would have been difficult to execute properly in such a short season.
@@TeenageMutantZuckerTurtle I personally think if you can write a bad ass over powered villain, then it’s time to step up your other characters. They could have pumped up Ezra more. He could have spent the last 10 years communing in the force with guidance by ghost Jedi. Then when Sabine and Ahsoka shows up, he’s quirky from being by himself for 10 years but ridiculously wiser. He’s so much better, that he sensed the future and begins to execute his plan to hurt Thrawn and isn’t surprised to see Ahsoka and Sabine. I would go as far to say that he’s so good, that he does some big sacrifice that kills him.
Thrawn and the empire in general, are the coolest thing going in this show. Yet, I totally agree with what you said. You stated the obvious very diplomatically and Thrawn is definitely not the brilliant leader we know from the Zahn novels. I like Ahsoka better than anything since Mando 1&2. But it’s weak in so many ways. Child-like really. Very basic without true intelligence. They need to add a few consultants so they make this stuff a bit smarter.
My biggest complaint isn't even the lazy plot. The writing is disappointingly on-the-nose. Everything offered is one-note with little depth. Filioni needs to go watch some Kubrick films and improve his dialogue by watching some Tarantino movies.
It's hard to write Thrawn as being a tactical genius when the protagonists are supposed to be fighting against overwhelming odds. There will always be plot holes and tactical missteps because otherwise the rebels will lose every single time if the antagonist behaved logically.
They could pretty easily get around that by doing what Rogue One did and make a point of the force guiding them, instead of just making it assumed as part of the setting
@@TommySkywalker11 Or better yet, give Thrawn a series of obstacles to overcome from a position of great weakness. This would have been a great opportunity to really focus a plotline on Thrawn and give the audience something diffrent. We've seen dozens of bumbling mustache twirling Imperial officers. We've seen the plotline of these officers given vast resources only to loose everything. This is boring writing in Star Wars at this point.
Not just that, but they could have been loading the cargo and attaching the Jump ring at the same time. That way they would have left well before Ahsoka would be able to reach the Night Sister tower.
It was infuriatingly bad writing. Earlier in the season we watch 6 fighters shoot pointlessly at the jedi ship for 5 mins to no effect. The one run of tie fighters disables it. There is no internal consistency...things change to just serve the plot And telling witch lady to go slow them down and she lets Ezra and Sabine pass to just fight Ashoka.....just so stupid
I felt that Thrawn also mismanaged his time poorly. Why weren't the caskets already on the ship to begin with? Did they not have any space and had to wait until Elsbeth showed up? Also, why wasnt the Eye of Scion docking with the Chimera while they were loading the caskets? Do both tasks in parallel, and be gone before the Jedi even reach the temple.
If they're stasis pods (considering the thing with waking the mothers), it's possible that they're resource intensive and a limited time thing before whatever is in them wakes up.
the casket loading was one of the few areas that felt fine. it appears that containers have some type of refrigeration, so perhaps the caskets had a very limited 'shelf life' and thus it was necessary to load them only when the Eye of Scion arrived. But yes, the eye of scion should've been brought down while the caskets were being loaded, that seems like very basic common sense.
I had basically the same reaction to all of it. The problem with a lot of Filoni stuff isn't so much the result as it is the execution. I get that he has an idea of where he needs the plot to go, he needs the crew to get to the tower so they can have their little zombie battle and fight Morgan Elsbeth, and that's all well and good, but there are a thousand ways of getting them from point A to point B and Filoni always seems to go for the straight path, which just makes his villains feel like chumps. For the finale what epitomises this for me is the turbolaser bombardment as they're going to the tower. They just ignore it... Just nah, not gonna hit shit. Thrawn had all this time to set it up, and they just croco-doggy straight through it no problem. There are a thousand ways he could have gotten them there, while also allowing Thrawn to look good. Have the bombardment force them to fall back and find another way in, blow a hole in the ground they all fall into, revealing a convenient underground tunnel system leading inside, all kinds of wacky plot devices that allow Thrawn to still look competent. And what did he humiliate Thrawn for? So Ahsoka, Sabine, and Ezra could open a door with the force, it wasn't even something cool. Filoni needs to have his writing team come up with less straight forward solutions to problems. If the protagonists get attacked, it's fine if they don't solve that problem in that same scene, you can push it forward to a later point, in fact it's usually better that way. TIE fighters attack the ship? Everyone fall back! Take cover in that ravine over there, which leads the long way around while Ahsoka's ship flies off to pull the enemy away, getting damaged and crashing in the process, and that can be what buys Thrawn enough time to finish his preparations or whatever. He wins, but the story progresses the exact same way regardless. Stakes raised, entire show elevated. It's like he views confrontations as mere obstacles between plot points, something to overcome in the moment, instead of seeing them as potential storytelling moments. To give a good example, take the basic intro quest in any D&D campaign. Your party has been tasked with delivering X from town A to someone in town B. En route your wagon is inevitably assaulted by goblins or gnolls or whatever. The wagon breaks, the driver dies, and left to explore the immediate area after the fight leads the party to find a cave and enter their first dungeon. Standard fare. You think you're going somewhere but then something happens that throws the journey off course onto a different path entirely, yet this was always the intended path and the original quest was a mere red herring. I feel like if Filoni had directed this quest you would defeat the goblins and get back on the wagon to continue unmolested to town B, and that's just not as interesting.
The thing is, Thrawn would've killed Sabine and Ahsoka when he destroyed the tower if their ship hadn't magically been repaired in 30 minutes because of plot armor. Even Thrawn seemed perturbed by the plot armor.
Thrawn was obviously preserving his resources and his army. In the age of the Imperial Remnant, that is very important. If he comes home with a sizeable force like he did in the show, he'd garner the warlords' respect. If he came with a tiny force, he'd have to beg the other warlords for help........which would then put them in a position where they could control him.
Sure, but he effectively lost more resources because of his indecisive actions. He won time, but essentially allowed his forces to be defeated in detail instead of taking advantage of his superior intel and numbers.
Biggest mistake I couldn’t let go of is how Thrawn never even considered locking down the tower. All the doors were left open! Even Ahsoka and crew thought about locking them to slow down the night troopers. How did the strategic mastermind not think of that as a simple way to slow his enemies down? Even a tad? It would’ve added more time to his escape without costing NOTHING.
I think Thrawn wanted to remain docked until his hyperspace-ring coupled to his ship was in case he needed to deploy the night sisters or his fancy bodyguard to stall the Jedi even further, which he could hardly manage from an undocked ship. The Jedi want to make it to his ship on foot because it’s safer to approach from within the tower than on a starship. However if he undocks, their only option will be the starship which is much faster and more likely to succeed in reaching him despite the risk. So in locking them inside the tower with an army of zombie troopers blocking their exit, he can undock and sail away with zero risk of being caught.
Yeah if he wasn’t docked to the tower it would be much easier for them to attack the hanger bay and destroy the cargo being brought back to the main galaxy. Staying docked to the tower limits their options to a ground assault which Elsbeth and the troopers successfully held off.
Even with Thrawn's mistakes I not only hope that he learns from his last encounter but also any writer learns to also write him slightly better Don't get me wrong Thrawn is decent with the portrayal we got so far but I do generally hope he simply gets better and better to where he is almost similar to the Thrawn books (Heck maybe he isn't that great at fighting a smaller group and might excelle fighting in a full fledged war)
There is an unfortunate truth about the Mandoverse and most other Disney live action shows: they have to be “dumbed down” to fit their larger audience. The shows are written so than the average viewer uneducated in the lore can sit down and enjoy the show. Because of that, complex and nuanced characters like Thrawn often have to be simplified to better fit a recognizable archetype, in Thrawn’s case that being the villain. The average viewer probably doesn’t necessarily want to have to constantly think too hard about who is the hero or the villain, why the villain is doing what they are doing, or if the villain is truly evil. Sometimes for the viewer’s sake, it is easier to just make those things obvious and make the villain more clearly evil and flawed. It also in Thrawn’s case makes the plot armor for the heroes seem a little less jarring. It’s only in less mainstream shows like Andor or the animated shows that more complex characters like Thrawn, Luthen Rael, and Maul can really shine. The mainstream shows have squeezed in more complex characters like Baylan Skoll, but he is unfortunately more of the exception rather than the rule. Generally, the characters in the mainstream shows are going to be simpler than those in other Star Wars media.
Perhaps repulsor lifts of Chimaera are only partially operational, and incapable to lift it any higher without help of Eye of Scion, but then they can just move it away from this pillar... Edit: Many had tried to reach other galaxies, but alway failed. Morgan is indeed formidable character, hybrid of witch, warrior, logistics officer and industrial Tycoon? Her lose here is really bad, and frankly, loosing few TIE fighters or few dozens stormtroopers instead would be better choice. Edit2: It is hard to write very intelligent characters, because you need to think like them, you need long time to think through decision wich this character will take in few seconds and all of its repercussions, there is a reason only Timothy Zahn can portray Thrawn acurately.
My thought was that the ships crew was severely diminished and they simply didn't have the operational capability to do too many things at once leaving obvious dumb openings like needing to sit still too long or leaving hangar doors open. These ships require massive crews. Thrawn is a wounded animal projecting strength so that the real predators on the planet don't attack. Of course, that's just apologetics for what is probably poor writing, but still..
@@richardhittmann12Yes! Forcing funs to make headcanons and then release some patch in form of comic or book few years later isn't really a sign of good storytelling. Edit: as much as I like theorizing, it shouldn't be required from reader side.
Agreed on Thrawn's demeanor vs Rebels. He was more Tywin Lannister in rebels including the resemblance. For live TV turning up the ruthless might be the way to go though.
Hey, I like the way you really appreciate that which character made me want to watch the show just to check her out I like your assessments in an analysis of the franchise and the story lines. You seem like a smart dude
I had those thoughts before so I found some answers that give me peace of mind. If narratively moving the Chimera upwards makes MC's straight unable to do anything - you have to make a in world reason why you can't move it upwards. Sure it wasn't stated vocally, but it still reads. Thrawn has a perfectionist problem. If he thinks 2 TIEs are enough to take down jedi shuttle (which it was) - he wouldn't send a third. If clearly you can't move Chimera because [ Unknown Plot Reason] you need volunteers to sacrifice, but for them to be actual threat when they are zombies they should at least fight like nightsister zombies, like they did with deathtroopers, or to be hordes and hordes of them, which you can't fit in one filming "dome", nor explain by narrative reason, because there not much personnel left. I don't know the clear solution for this, so I just passed it as allowance in immersion level.
Honestly, they had a fairly straightforward reason to not move the Chimera IMO - The ship is damaged! It's kept operational but even keeping it hovering could be very challenging for the crew, so if they just said something along the lines of mechanical problems or something like that, it could've fixed that entire issue of not moving the ship.
All I gotta say is, everything that was before he said "Prepare for ground assault" and after Ezra got into the Chimera, was pure stupidity and I was unable to suspend my disbelief at all. Other than that, it made sense more or less.
I liked that Thrawn's personality has changed. The fact that he had to rely on Force users to get him out of exile after another put him into exile, has to have effected him somehow. His dialog with the Nightsisters hints to a reluctant alliance on Thrawn's part in spite of the loyalty of Morgan. She sacrificed a lot to rescue Thrawn with what seems to be the promise of a revitalized Dathomir.
"Another such defeat and our victory shall be complete." -Thrawn, just before the end of the Battle of Peridea, in my head canon. So just to recap: Thrawn's minefield failed to stop the Jedi. Thrawn's orbital defenses failed to stop the Jedi. Thrawn's force-users failed to stop the Jedi. Thrawn's stormtroopers failed to stop the Jedi. Thrawn's TIE fighters failed to stop the Jedi. Thrawn's Star Destroyer turbo laser batteries failed to stop the Jedi. Thrawn's zombie troopers failed to stop the Jedi. Thrawn's swords-witch failed to stop the Jedi. And Thrawn still won. *Because he treats the Jedi as though they have plot armor. Which they literally do.* Alex: "But why didn't he move the ship!? But why didn't he move the ship!? But why didn't he move the ship!?" They didn't clarify, Alex, but it probably wasn't because "Thrawn is a big dumb dumb." Get over it.
You're mostly pointing out weaknesses in Filoni's writing. I'm usually able to shut my brain off enough because he is extremely gifted with overall narrative and feel as opposed to details. He could benefit from a military advisor. Maybe' bring Zahn in closer, though my friend's experience working with Tom Clancy at Red Storm always reminds me authors are a complicated bunch. Some authors aren't natural collaborators.
I think you need to spend more time examining his narratives. These issues have been present since the Clone Wars. His pacing is bad, his character development doesn’t make sense, and he always writes the same stories.
@@TerminallyChill85 My expectations on fantasy and sci-fi in this regard are necessarily low, perhaps, I'll grant you that. I wouldn't be able to enjoy Warhammer 40K if that were not the case. However, I wasn't speaking to character narrative so much as general narrative, the flow and connectivity of all the elements in a way that is easy to process throughout a series. Perhaps there's a more articulate word to separate such from individual character narrative. Which if you think about it, is again about the small details. I would agree he struggles with consistent characterization which often seems unnecessarily sacrificed to the greater narrative. He plays real hard to his strengths without factoring in the weaknesses in doing so. Still, he has time to improve, career wise.
If Thrawn was viewing Ashoka as a copy of Anakin Skywalker, sending any amount of fighters above the minimum would be stupid. :D He expected that sending 12 fighters would result in the loss of all 12 fighters, because Anakin is just that good. Also, he would have to contend with the possibility of the Jedi managing to recover 3 or more TIEs from the fallen group and maintain their advance. Two fighters has just low enough capacity to require the group split, and we can figure out that they won't split up.
We assume that Thrawn made a mistake by not leaving sooner, but perhaps he simply couldn't. We don't know the extent of the damage to the Chimera, nor the power requirements/availability of moving something so large in atmo. It's also true, however, that after 10 years stranded, his mind would be dulled, and his emotions would be more of a driving force. In this case, that would likely mean anger and a desire for revenge, ideas he has likely spent plenty of time contemplating. It's not the Thrawn we knew, it's what he has understanably become
I was thinking the whole episode if I'd been Thrawn, I would have had ordered the troopers and witches aboard the Chimera the instant the last pod had been loaded, taken off the instant the last one stepped aboard, docked with the Eye either before the pods had finished loading or after leaving the atmosphere, and not spoken to Ahsoka. Once Ahsoka arrived, every second he spent on the planet cost him people and resources.
Only thought in Thrawn's defense here is that we don't know what resources are waiting for him back in the other galaxy. He might really be going back with a few hundred zombies, a dozen TIEs, and a dream. Under-committing at every step seems silly to us who know that the Republic is not waiting for him on the other side and is aware that a decent chunk of the Remnant is waiting for him, but for him, these are all the forces he KNOWS he has access to. He may also be concerned for the wellbeing of his troops too, which is weird for an imperial but he did just spend ten years with only these guys... Not moving the ship though is pretty oopsie tho.
If your replies got more likes than my comment, I might put some thought into it. Dave has been consulting with Zahn, so stop getting your panties in a bunch about Dave's portrayal. It isn't something Zahn knows how to guide him on in live-action. If you need that perspective, get with Dave and guide him through it. Good luck, but complaining about it isn't helping.
I don’t think Thrawn had any intentions to win the fight but to learn as much as he can. You have to remember he just found out the Empire has fallen to the Rebellion and has become the New Republic and he has plans to begin his campaign to restore the empire. He knows very well he will not have another opportunity to learn how a Jedi thinks so he’s taking the time to learn what he can and then leave. He knows he has already won but he doesn’t want to miss out on the chance of learning his potential adversaries capabilities before leaving.
There were sections of this episode that suffer heavily from plot armor, and reworked plot threads specifically so that something the writer wanted to happen would happen. Regardless of whether it was be an in-character move, intelligent, or not. Filoni wanted to see Morgan and Ahsoka fight again AND on Perridia, and so he found a way to make that happen at the sacrifice of intelligent plot choices. We saw the Jedi shuttle leave the tower, but there is the slight possibility that they brought Morgan's body with them. If they know about the Dathomiri witches (and I'm sure Huyang does, along with stories about them - the dude is 25K years old), they could expect the possibility of her resurrection, and find a way to use her, or talk to her, or get her to help stop Baylin's quest to free Abeloth - if they can get Morgan to tell them about the Mother. Or Huyang knows about Abeloth. If they didn't take her, Abeloth could use her power to protect Morgan's body before it could be crushed, and posses her. I'm thinking she may devour Baylin, and take over either Shin or Morgan, because at this point, I'm sure Ahsoka knows they have to be on this planet for a reason. They'll figure out that that reason is to stop Baylin from releasing Abeloth. If they fail, Abeloth could use the discord in the SW galaxy to cause a massive event that cripples the NR to the point where the First Order has the ability to rise. I'm betting that she, Morgan, Baylin, and Shin are all going to be a nice family. And of course, Hera shows off Ezra as proof about Thrawn before Thrawn throws off the curtain at Dathomir showing off himself and all of those cryo'd night sisters all "Surprise, mofkrs."
I agree on the plot armor point. It seems like the writers wrote themselves into a hole and used plot armor to dig themselves out. They could have avoided a lot of this by not having the night sisters detect Ashoka's arrival. If she arrived stealthily and Thrawn didn't know she was there then some of his blunders could have been more easily explained. Also the finale felt way too busy. Too many things happened that didn't need to happen. I would have been just as satisfied if not more so if Thrawn just took off as soon as his cargo was loaded and abandoned everyone on the planet and the whole episode was just Ezra, Ashoka, and Sabine exploring the planet trying to find a way off it.
Maybe Thrawn doesn't throw everything he has at them because it would deplete his resources if he lost too much and he needs his resources to deal with whatever may be beyond Peridea once he breaks orbit. He hasn't been able to escape so he doesn't know what is out there. There could be a whole fleet out there waiting to trap him. Thrawn is the type of guy to expect the unexpected and be prepared for it. It's why he's willing to sacrifice so little.
I very much agree. Thrawn knowns he only has one shot at this, his guys are lower morale, exhausted, probably not all there after a decade on an unknown planet. Sending limited forces, moving slowly and committing overwhelming firepower, is the right move here. Every second his ships are up is a potential unknown and wear and tear off of them. Sending more gunships to pin the protagonists down assumes the existence of these ships and their readiness, and Thrawn's willingness for them to be lost. Flying into the ring immediately again assumes the general operability of the Chimera which seems to be held together by Thrawn's sheer intellect. Docking it to the Eye of Sion was a zero risk operation with a damaged ship, and they definitely do not have the ability to repair things should they damage either. Did Filoni think of all of this? Possibly, possibly not. But there are very intelligent reasons for Thrawn to have made most of the moves he did. Again he doesn't have hindsight, nor has he read the script. Every move has to be made with the priority being leave the planet with as many guys as I have while expending the least amount of resources and lives and without damaging his one chance out.
I think this is something the writers didn't convey well enough. But I agree with your assessment overall. But because it falls unto the viewer to make these assumptions and just accept it, reveals a bit of the flaw in the the writing. @@AntoineVello
in terms of the ties, it makes sense though. the empire produced quantity over quality, but to give them shields, life support, hyperdrive, etc. is super expensive especially at the scale they have to produce. the theory was that the pilots were so well trained that their skill made up for the lack of safety measures. unfortunately the only time i see competent and skilled empire pilots is from fan films and video games.
I read Zahn's trilogy every other year. I get it with Thrawn. But tbh it was not that bad. I think he was scared of something and wanted to get away. His ship was in rough shape.
Lmao you read Zahn's trilogy every year and your takeaway from this season is "Thrawn was just scared, give the poor guy a blanket". Thrawn was nothing like the Zahn novels. Whatever hand Timothy had in this show, it didn't stop Filoni from butchering his character.
Ikr. Thrawn is my favorite character and I don’t see all these problems with his character. I actually think they did a decent job compared to how the other new Star Wars stuff went. He actually was a lot like he is in the book’s always being a step ahead
@@stephenkuchler951 People like to complain about Disney shows because its the hip and cool thing to do. Honestly, I feel he was portrayed exactly how he was in rebels, although i will say there is a noticeable contrast between Thrawn in the novels vs here/Rebels.
@@DrPhenom911finally someone who gets me, I do absolutely loathe the sequels, but thrawn was portrayed as perfectly as he was in rebels. I also thought Kenobi was decent, around 50/50.
3:00 Me too brother. When i saw those troopers slowly walk down 3 different sets of steps to start firing at basically 3 force users i died inside. I could hear my old Drill Sgt shouting "GET OUTTA THE FKING KILLZONE!!!" while those troopers waddled into the center.
These nitpicks are on point. But the illogical and absent-minded decisions make a certain amount of sense. Yes, it takes me out of the story for a bit. But one of the things I actually liked about the Thrawn episodes is that it captures how TZ's Thrawn would behave in a situation like this. Poor bastard is loosing his mind, becoming unhinged. 😢
That's not true and you know it. He is clearly being portrayed as both having his wits about him and being every bit as tactically competent as he was before. the writers, however, ARE losing their minds and becoming unhinged. hardly surprising considering the audience's reception to this piece of garbage show
I suspect that Star Destroyer while looking impressive on the outside I suspect its being held together by multiple rolls of OB’s duct tape. Try to move it again and an engine drops out of the back. I’m sure you have had toys where you have lost the plastic battery lid on the back - Thrawn has just gone and lost a Destroyer cargo hold sized one of these.
See I think Thrawn didn't leave because of what you said. He is more broken and deranged. He wanted to see his Nighttroopers perform after death for future use and he wanted to get revenge against Ezra, who hid from him the last 10 years. Thrawn allows one stow away but ultimately is successful, Ezra alone stayed hidden and became a messenger rather than a warrior. Thrawn would assume more jedi exist and that the New Republic may have suspensions of his return. A stow away acting as a messenger would alter his plans little to none
Left another comment to say you’re my favorite Star Wars UA-camr and one of my favs in general. The music always slaps and you have great in depth opinions on Star Wars, even if you’re a little too lenient on Filoni sometimes imo.
I think this scene could have been drastically improved by moving the cargo transfer being completed to while the Jedi are scaling the tower, that would explain why Thrawn did not move the Star Destroyer and sends the Night Troopers to defend the tower and leaves Morgan behind. I also want to note, I have been reading the Heir to the Empire novels, and I feel like Thrawn is definitely a straight up villian in those books. He has Rukh execute one of his men for failure, he bombards Honoghr to ensure the Noghri's loyalty and admits to commiting genocide on an alien race, wiping out the entirety of said race.
Thrawn wasn't underestimating the Jedi when he sent two fighters. I've seen a lot of folks misunderstand that but as a Thrawn fan you should know better. How many times have we seen jedi's in ships annihilate opposing fighter forces? He sent two, enough to get in an opening shot which they did. Disabling the ship temporarily. The more fighters sent the more likely they would be spotted before they could engage. And the more sent the less he had left. Thrawn's know Jedi effectively have plot armor. Send his last dozen fighters after them and there is a very good chance he will be left with not fighters and no assurance the Jedi was dead for the cost. Not to mention he might need to fight a battle before he can reinforce even back in their own galaxy. Those fighters were far more precious to defend against conventional enemies. Then throwing them into a fire against a Jedi he was safest to avoid confronting directly. The fighters made sense. If anything I'm amazed the disabled the Jedi ship and put it down to successfully managing to surprise them. That stupid thing was TANKING TURBOLASERS from the eye of Sion for a good while there. If it's defenses had been up and the Jedi on board no way in hell a mere squadron of tie fighters could have taken it.
How tf could Thrawn set up a MASSIVE minefield in space when they were low on manpower and limited supplies? There must been have hundreds if not thousands of space mines.
The zombies were definitely a weird addition to the story, I even thought that when the showed it on clones wars, but they should’ve been a bigger game changer with Thrawn’s plan since he already has tons of troops that probably didn’t survive the planet: They would’ve been more expendable than his living troops and therefore, better for something as simple as a delay tactic. They could’ve been sent to support the mercenaries against the caravan (although, I think they could’ve just supported them with fighters) and them being harder to kill and unknown until this point would’ve delayed them longer. He also should’ve just used already dead troops to defend their escape. By the time he even resurrects them in the show, the heroes are already at the stairs. If they were already undead, they would have to spend more time fighting through them while the live troops evacuate. They could’ve even slowed them further by disabling the doors to the stair, like what the Jedi did to the zombies, or rigging them with mines or some kind of explosives. Hell, if they had any hazardous waste that may be left from running the Star destroyer for years, they could’ve used that since the troops there don’t need to worry about it; it’s all or nothing at this point.
In my head cannon I saw it this way. I suspect that Thrawn knew exactly how many resources he had available (fuel, TIES, officers, troopers, etc.) to bring the Chimera safely back to the original galaxy. This kind of meticulous planning and knowledge is very much in character for him. This would also explain the hesitancy to utilize more than 2 TIE fighters against Ahsoka's shuttle. Expending resources for his fighters against a single target would be pointless because they could not be replenished. If the shuttle pursued him while leaving and he calculated they'd catch him before he jumped to hyperspace he could have scrambled the rest to sacrifice themselves to allow his escape. He probably knew precisely what fuel/power it took to get the Chimera to the docking pedestal and waited a safe distance away while waiting for Morgan to answer his call, in case someone might have taken over the Eye of Scion and used it to come finish him off. Would explain why the Chimera was nowhere near the pedestal when the Eye's shuttle arrived. This is very much in character for Thrawn's preparatory and cautious nature. You'll notice when he was back in the regular galaxy he remained docked to the Eye, utilizing it's power to move the Chimera. Thrawn knows what he's doing. This is why when Morgan made obvious suggestions about sending more troops, he hesitates, and knows that she's correct, but makes the calculations of the minimum that is needed to stop the threat while probably planning multiple reserve steps to quell any threats that might slip through (a perfect example is the dispatching of night troopers, then Morgan, then 2 purge troopers). Also you may notice the complete lack of Navy officers aboard the ship, those who normally pilot the Chimera stayed off camera the entire time. The bridge was likely at least partially destroyed and the navigation abilities may be severely limited while Naval crew quite possible all died along the way and the ship was being piloted from a secondary bridge location by junior officers or worse yet, stormtroopers. Moving the ship higher was an expenditure of resources he may not have been willing to make if he already had the Eye of Scion calculate positioning for interlocking with the Chimera. Moving it to another location might have cost him time to have the Eye recalculate, which would potentially allow for the Jedi to reach his ship via their shuttle. Thrawn sees all these possibilities in that brilliant blue brain of his.
I like your thinking here. I wrote my own comment to Alan. I wasn't so sure about Thrawn as Alan was, with whom I usually agree. Among other things, I noticed that Thrawn made it clear to us and the Night Sisters that he did what he did for the Empire. Morgan made no such clarity before him, which I'm sure he could have noticed. When Morgan says she does what she does for Dathomir, he might not have heard her. But that doesn't matter to a brilliant strategist who uses people. Without telling us directly, he not only sacrificed her but also made sure that his dirty work could get blamed on Ahsoka in the eyes of the Night Sisters, so he allowed the Jedi, whom the three Night Sisters agree "reek" (when they saw Sabine), the open opportunity to kill her by keeping his ship in place until he was ready to leave on his own timetable. That way, she and the Night Sisters would lose all of Morgan's intense dark magic so they could never go rogue for Dathomir at the expense of his plans for the Empire. Great writing. Dave Filoni nailed it, IMO.
Baylan, Shin and Morgan carried the show imo. They all just worked so well together and they were actually giving the protagonists a hard time. I feel like the show started to fall apart a bit at the end. I thought it was a little ridiculous that Sabine was able to force push Ezra at the end after having just used the force for the very first time. Thrawns decisions felt disorganized as opposed to calculated.
It’s difficult to portray a character in live action compared to writing or animated. But this thrawn is the MOST dangerous one. Thrawn used to have morals and value all life. While he still values the life, he has lost his values in exile. He was defeated, he is in fight or flight mode and he’s ready for a fight
Ten years of fighting Notis may have dulled the Grand Admiral's sharp mind . The lost of Morgan Elsbeth was definitely major, plot and visual wise. Her fight scenes were easily the best in the series. Though to me, her "For Dathomir!" hinted maybe at a displeasure or even split from Thrawn's goals. Maybe Thrawn felt that too and decided to get rid of her.
When you hire an actual martial artist and stunt woman to do the acting and fights you get quality fights. As they know how to do that part extremely well as it was her job for decades.
"For Dathomir" spoken under breath after Thrawn's back was turned....to me it sounded like The Night Sisters' interests were not exactly aligned with Thrawn's. For all their "at your service, Grand Admiral", I'd say Thrawn was being double crossed there.
@@ljiljanasrebrenovic9500 There is at least some kind of deal. I believe the things they loaded up are nightsisters. They have a deal Thrawn gets home he takes them ot Dathomir. After which we don't know the end of the deal will they still aliy with thrawn or will they betray him. We just don't know yet.
@@jasondiend4248 obviously there is a deal, and some mutual interest. But I have a hunch that there's more to it than Thrawn is aware of. Also, having seen Morgan Elsbeth's final fight with Ahsoka I get the feeling that she was fighting to the death not because of her fierce loyalty to Thrawn but rather for the sake of Dathomere...
I just love lovee the ambience and Ahsoka S01 soundtrack. Looking forward to restreaming with relaxed pace starting early january 🙂 2x episodes per week, paused for a while after fourth & continue after couple weeks. Of course always stream in dark room via Mickey+ telly application 📺 Well said in overall about the boom boom vs undead scene. I liked & disliked it. My high school rating for S01 finale is 7.5/10 & that's nor best or worst that i gave for S01 episodes. [Four years non stop M+ subber & stays forever] 🙂
what about ezra making a big deal in the last ep about using the force, more specificly, force push, instead of a lightsaber, and then forgetting in the finale that he can literaly just force push the zombie troopers off the cliff haha
Honestly I'll maintain Thrawn is not brilliant tactician, but he's a competent military commander in a galaxy of otherwise incompetent commanders. The difference is subtle, after all everyone is written by screenwriters and book writers. So for examples of how everyone is incompetent: at the outbreak of the Clone Wars, Jedi lead Clone troopers to charge across open terrain to attack enemy armor. Why? The Empire invests in the Tarkin doctrine when it would have been cheaper to prevent Rebellion by literally bribing the people. Make everyone's lives better under the empire and suddenly no one wants to rebel. Who needs democracy if God king meets all our needs? The Emperor then doubles down and personally goes to the Death Star instead of using a decoy. In the Mandalorian, the Mandalorians have a reputation as great warriors. In season 3 we see them funnel into kill boxes and get suppressed by a heavy weapon implacemnt, almost as if none of them are carrying back and wrist mounted rockets. They don't seize the high ground, establish an overwatch. All of these are peak strategy (including assuming the high ground is a strength in a sword fight, it's not) of screen writers. Competent tactics would run rough shod over everyone. I would hope they do an Infinity War Style Thrawn series where he's the protagonist in a way, leading essentially an Imperial Rebellion against the New Republic. Strategically there's a huge oppurtunity for him to operate as a pirate fleet or even multiple pirate fleets around the New Republic, to gain resources, steal ships, build up their forces, give field training to recruits. All while allowing the New Republic to overlook the pirate threats in the rim. It reduces the New Republic military from suddenly getting funding and direction, while undermines republic support on the fringes. He could even capture New Republic frigates, which are much more resource efficient compared to his ISD, and possibly event start production on the TIE defender or other more optimal fighter and boarding craft. The when he has resources gathered to launch simultaneous attacks across the galaxy as an Imperial Warlord, then maybe he can scare the Republic enough to claim several systems who would flock to him to gain safety from the "pirates"
I felt that the writing was lacking when it came to Thrawn's plan. Its literally like rubber banding in racing games where the AI falls back in the mid part of the race only to come back during the final lap.
A lot of people here are overestimating how good the original Thrawn was. His writing was less amazing and the New Republic was just dumb. They were written to be incompetent. Thrawn was the dude who had a bodyguard from an enslaved race aboard his ship...the same bodyguard who kills him. Not exactly 200IQ move. He was also beaten several times canonically. People got this weird cult-like worship of Thrawn being godly. YOur average writer is not in the military, nor would even a military officer necessarily be a genius strategist. So you are unlikely to actually get that level of performance. Temper your expectations unless you think Disney is going to hire a genius military officer to write Thrawn.
How about use the original writer who still alive let him write and do checks and balances to make sure thrawn is right I'm not happy with his appearance he doesn't have pupils and his eyes do not glow
Shin Hati did not return to Thrawn… she rode away on her Howler. Thrawn never discarded her. She chose not to return. Also, attacking the Jedi on the ground, when they can just force sense their way around laser blasts, while Thrawn needs all the ships and soldiers packing up and ready to go wouldn’t make sense in his mind. He calculated accurately that two TIE fighters would disable Ahsoka enough to give him more…time. He is hitting the balance between conservation and buying time. Other than Ezra, he pretty much succeeded in that. My theory is that Thrawn wanted to destroy the holy citadel of the Nightsisters without the Mothers suspecting his real reason for doing so, when it seemed the most tactical (and it was tactical - if Huyang hadn’t repaired their ship in time, they would have died.) I believe he wanted the Nightsisters to have nothing to return to. We see their reaction to its destruction with shock. He, who understands art the most, also understands what drives the Nightsisters, and he wants to master them for his uses. Many people have tried to tell me that Thrawn does not care about his troops. Yes, I agree that he is using them, but he literally gave up some valuable resources - a very loyal Morgan Elsbeth - to combat the feared padawan of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader. I don’t think he wanted anyone to die. He even says, “There’s no negotiating with the padawan of Anakin Skywalker,” showing us that he would have preferred negotiating if he thought it at all possible. I believe that what he is telling himself is that if they don’t get away from Peridea, then they all might as well die, so he needs to use his most valuable resources. It’s want versus need, for the villain. The only thing he seems to care little for is witchcraft and the undead. Even then, he still cares if his troops become undead because of its distasteful dishonor. I thought Thrawn honorable, thoughtful, knowledgeable, and very likable. His victory speech at the end was delicious. If he can taunt Vader about his identity, he certainly can taunt Ahsoka!
It was very clever that despite Baylan gave Sabine his word on finding Ezra, but it wasn’t Thrawn’s word on giving the order in finding him and kill him
The failure to lift the Chimaera higher for docking, combined with the needlessly late departure, is so weird that I almost think Thrawn wanted to eliminate Morgan just as he was keen to be rid of Baylan and Shin.
I think the flaws in the writing for Thrawn are likely a result of the writers being unsure of how to write a Thrawn at his full potency as a military leader, and have the heroes survive, let alone have a hope of returning to help the New Republic for season 2, or ever. It would have been better for making Thrawn out to be the military mastermind he is, but it would have made writing a show that ended after season 1 or leave Ahsoka, Sabine, Ezra and Huyang all stranded or dead at the end of season 1. I think the way around that would have been the addition of a counter for Thrawn, a new unforeseen variable or unknown he could not predict, who could have offered the heroes another option. Let him utterly devastate the heroes. But give the heroes some way of continuing on after Thrawn achieves his goals of stranding them and leaving with his ISD, caskets, and nearly all of his troopers and Tie's intact. I'd like to think now that Thrawn is in the main Star Wars galaxy, and that he is now the underdog with less resources than his enemies, that we will see the Thrawn everyone knows and loves, as in that situation, it's easier to write a military mastermind and not end the show after 10 minutes of his pure genius, as his enemies and challenges are much, much greater.
Leading up the Tharen’s appearance they built up his character sooooo much that it was hard not to be disappointed. I was expecting a strategist mastermind that would be 20 steps ahead the entire time. Or one of those TV tropes where you think the hero might win but find out the villain had planned for that exact outcome the entire time. In reality he barely escaped and at significant loss. So right now as a casual Star Wars fan I’m thinking, ok Thrawns ragtag and battered army is back… who cares shoot them out of the sky. I know that’s not will happen but I’m not really worried about the state of the Star Wars galaxy right now which I feel should be the cliff hanger.
Morgan Elsbeth got done dirty by Thrawn. She spent years working to build that big ship and find the path to get to the Great Mothers, only to be sent to die.
@@mitsuzune His forces are in a highly weakened state. Two Jedi have been known to take out an entire capital ship by themselves. His aim was to get away and get back to his home galaxy while preserving as many of his forces as possible. In that regard, he succeeded.
They had to nerf him else he was gonna win hands down and also him being out of battle practice, being 10 years rusty makes since. But we all know if Grand Admiral Thrawn was allowed to be himself his true self, they would've lost from the jump.
I agree with you on the Thrawn not moving the Chimera. Other than that, I think he played it decently. He was walking the fine line of trying to make sure he got away, without overcommitting forces. Only send the troops you are willing to lose. And ultimately, he did succeed in escaping Peridea, and who knows the news of Thrawn's return will likely work to his favor, as there are plenty in the New Republic who would be more than willing to switch sides, once that news gets out. I think he is situated very well.
I don’t think you can just turn the key, start the engine and move away with a Star Destroyer. Running the engines to full power, pre-flight checks, laying in a course… Besides, even when he asks Morgan Elzbeth for more time, you still see troopers boarding the Chimaera. When the Chimaera moved - that was the earliest point in time it could move. Filoni should have made that more obvious though 😅
While a lot of people say they hated the show and that it was terrible, I still liked some of the ideas within, despite the flaws. I do also agree the show could have been better in several ways, even though I found enjoyment in what I thought was good about it. I’ve started to believe Star Wars will never be the same as it was under George, as much as I’d like it to be. Different people are working to make Star Wars after all. I keep coming back to Yoda’s talk with Anakin in Episode 2 when I think about this series (the talk about learning to let go of everything he feared to lose). Star Wars, as it was with George, is my favorite franchise; I don’t think I’ll ever stop loving it. But I think it’s time for me to move on from the hope that it will be the same and enjoy what I can. Maybe I’m just becoming a normie.
Don't you love how Star Destroyer blasts barely do any damage , and people can stand right next to the explosion impact with no problems?
I know right, can't even imagine how long would a Base Delta Zero would take with that firepower
It's not firing shells it's just laser blasts so theirs no explosion just displacement of material.
Facts, that was hella odd
@@Sergiblacklist
They don't fire shells as it is... supposed to be OP lasers
That was the most frustrating part. Filoni should know how devastating a Star Destroyer bombardment is. It was inexcusable they were able to survive that ride.
I hope Timothy Zahn is promoted even higher up for writing on the next series/movie. I know he gave Filoni his blessing for the Ahsoka series but we need him to be more hands on for a true accurate portrayal of Thrawn.
Zhan will approve of anything for the paycheck. He will approve as they charge his work and ruin his characters
Or charge his characters backstory . As he has before because they pay him and gave him more books to write. Sadly.
To alter his better story to fit Disney Canon. Or let dave take a thrawn book tactic and give it to ashkoa in clone wars season one.
Thrawn is only as smart as the writer, so they definitely need to bring on board some tactical consultants. Cuz this ain’t it.
Why would he get more hands on? He's already got his money. cha-chaaaaaang!$$$ I'd love to see some of his original stuff made into series more than try to salvage this dumpster fire of a franchise.
@@ericp1139 yes they could use sone military consultants just for the hearing scenes or reporting to the government. Ever see a general talk like that to a senator ? Or anyone in active military not speaking respectfully on duty ? Or political consultant. ( or just some simple research. Mon mothma outrank leia. And akbar shul be in charge of hera . . Not to mention corruption and perjury.
He said he wants to write all the in between moments we didn’t get to see in the Ahsoka show. I’d buy that.
Also to note how his TIE fighters were useless in the fight against the jedi starship...which was standing still
This is the problem with fighting people who can see into the future.
No TIE Defenders in sight. Granted he didn't have the resources, but didn't he? Could have easily repurposed a few regular TIEs.
Classic Filoni writing
@@KikBlavamajority of the fleet was used to keep the Chimera in some pseudo intact state.
Now compare it to the how the TIE’s were portrayed when they scrambled in Andor Eye of Aldhani episode. There was so much suspense and they actually felt threatening.
Unfortunately not even Thrawn can overcome Plot Armor.
Plot armor had nothing to do with his death in Legends...
Or overcome Disney’s insistence on portraying men as idiots and women as emotionless planks who aren’t fazed by anything
"A villain is only as smart as the writer"
Truth is Filoni was always struggling to write this character
Writers all have their weak points. Some write badass villains but bungle their way through writing heroes, and some write amazing heroes, but can't write a compelling villain to save their life. Filoni has his strengths. With Thrawn, I really do think he needs to consult Timothy Zahn in order to shore up his weak points. There's nothing bad about asking help from someone who knows how to create specific character types that a writer has trouble with.
Me, here, I suck at writing villains, so I've been consulting with a friend who's an insane villain creator.
Star Wars doesn’t need Filoni to flex his strengths as much as it needs him to hire help to cover his weaknesses, which Dave and Jon simply don’t do enough of:
@@hellfish2309this has been my main complaint. The few creative minds they have are stretched too thin and it's getting more and more obvious.
@@scrimshaw7470 since its behind closed doors for all we know, Iger, Chapak, and their minions might be denying them writers, but given the budgets they greenlight it literally wouldn’t add up 🤷♂️
My most generous assessment is that Kathleen and her assistants were dismayed at the ‘written by committee’ conclusion by which audiences disapproved of the sequels whether true or not; this and the impression Favreau made with Mando s1 informs a position of letting her star warriors run their fiefdoms as they choose so long product shows up and gets clicks
Also, a more laid back Thrawn has Dave giving Jon a lower grading curve by which to write Moff Gideon and vice-versa: Jon [stunt]casts Giancarlo to preen and impose, but can’t really overclock and raise the bar by which the audience will be intimidated by Thrawn… I enjoy Favreau, but it’s amazing how they figured out how to both circlejerk and reversedraft 🏎️ for one another
@@ohkaygoplay Judging this show, Filoni has few if any strengths.
I feel like Thrawns decisions were based on movie logic, I don't like it, but that is the way they make sense. He knows somehow that the universe will try very hard to make him loose, so he chooses to loose in a way where he actually wins, limiting the amount of things he sacrifices every step of the way. If he had sent a whole squadron of tie fighters then by movie logic they would have somehow failed anyway, and that would be worse for him :P.
I agree strongly...which in turn means my nitpick is aimed at Thrawns exposition which should have hinted more strongly at this.
That would be a curious thing, a character who realizes that they are a villain in a movie, and therefore actual victory is impossible, so they aim for an eternal stalemate.
He even failed at conserving his resources by being so "prudent". By being restrictive with troop deployments he ultimately allowed for larger losses and essentially was defeated in detail several times by a vastly inferior force. Tactics 101: Play to your strengths.
If the writers aren't good at writing military tactics, don't expect a brilliant Thrawn on the show.
I don’t know how he planned on winning anything with
They couldn't write what wouldve happened if it actually worked as intended or it would have ended the series right there and broken the plot armor and hero dynamic. It's very sad but had to be that way for a general audience.
Thrawn tried to stopped his enemy. Therefore, he did not succeed in stopping his enemy.
"Do or do not. There is no try." - Grandmaster Yoda.
I can’t stand the “military tactics” in the Filoni verse. Clone wars is great but I cant watch the war scenes because they are so bad.
@@lentztui just wanna say, when you have an overwhelming force of soldiers, sometimes all you gotta wait for is the lucky shooters that end it. training bwah, who needs that when you have thousands of soldiers shooting thousands of lazers (not thrawns as they are limited, but not trained in the slightest due to being used to having an ultimate army of millions.)
Ahsoka and Ezra surviving a canon barage from ISD is the most Plot armor thing i ever seen.....
The problem with the night trooper scene is that it was made in the volume, they all basically either stand still or go around in a circle, it gets a lot better when they go up the stairs
Then they lose that zombie movement and decide to move like a normal stormtrooper.
Yeah did you see that there all slow and Brutish movements then suddenly there moveing normally firing there guns at random things normally and running and using explosives to get by sealed doors. Totally normal undead troopers.
I think the first couple of moments of being brought back is kinda waking up from one of those "3 year" naps .... but once they get the connections setup they start moving like their old selves.@@alexshinra6722
Biggest blunder he did was to not move the ship away from the tower once loading was complete to prevent anyone boarding. THEN start link up of the giant hyperspace ring.
You could even complete the transfer with shuttles
Exactly
Agreed it made absolutely no sense. Asshat tactics
@@TerminallyChill85 yup but then they might comandeer a shuttle faster load way they did but lift off the tower the second the last pod hit deck plating
@@bojik2616 based on the timeline they would have been finished long before Ahsoka arrived. Ahsoka was just slowly following the crabs and in no hurry
Thrawn's strategy... Every time you get defeated you just look smug and say you won any way.
He's Filonis Inspector Clouseau
A dumb persons portrayal of a smart person is all Thrawn is in this show.
But he wasn't defeated. His ENTIRE goal was to leave the planet and get back to their own galaxy. Which he succeeded in doing.
@@talonmassakir9000 Actually that's only part of his goal.
@@grimdolo918 no
Either the force is actively thwarting Thrawn or Ahsoka and crew has some major plot armor. They literally survived a barrage from a Star Destroyer and Thrawn’s security detail has been very Complicate with a Jedi managing to sneak onboard despite having this very issue onboard with the very same jedi KNOWN to disguise themselves as a Trooper, that trooper then somehow manages to avoid detection and steal a republic era ship and fly out of Dathomir, without being detected. Thrawn is destined to lose and it shows considering on his security detail alone.
I did appreciate that they kept with Ezra's reaction to respond with an affirmative into the trooper's com regarding reinforcements being sent instead of going full Han Solo with "negative, negative, we have a reactor leak here. Very large. Very dangerous." That response will let him hide more efficiently as long as he stays in that armor. There are no other Force sensitives on board that can sense him and be all like, "Wait a minute..."
Especially if he's pretending to be a undead trooper. I *DOUBT* they do check ups on them.
One thing Was On their Side. Those Huge Laser/Batteries are made to Fire on another Ship Closer To To the Size of a Space Frigate. Ie a Much much Smaller Target is going to be harder to hit. and those Wolf/Rat things Are like a Horse. Probably going 40 Ish MPH. But still Its More likely the Blast of Debris (Any rocks exploding etc. would have hit them) But yea the chances to get across without getting a Boulder upside the head was Not in their favor. (The force Plot Armor Works in Mysterious ways lmao)
Well, the bigger the naval guns, the longer it takes em to traverse and adjust, so you use smaller guns, and then, oh, right, everyone's Force sensitive if not armored, too. (And besides, Ezra's not only good at stealing Stormtrooper armor, he's practiced doing mind-tricks in em and that's a huge, vastly-understaffed ISD. Pretty likely he'd boosted Skoll's old shuttle, (or duped someone into dumping it in space with him aboard ) before they even got near Dathomir.
Yeah, him getting away was not a tough sell, he has skills and has done it before. I'd think Thrawn should have been looking for it, but the show must go on, so it's not a stretch that hurts to make.@@OllamhDrab
I was honestly hoping that with all that time stranded that Thrawns stormtroopers would've been badass soldiers. Not just being canon fodder
Agreed I was let down that his stormtroopers did nothing that you would see any other trooper do. Which is miss every lethal shot and get cut down mid melee.
You remember when Thrawn used to perfectly postion his assets in order to utilize them to maximum effect?
How best to use an incredibly smart and capable industrialst with enough connections to covertly build a never before seen piece of technology and has just been initiated into the inner circle of the allies your plan depends on? Send her to slow down a Jedi.
Classic Thrawn. Bravo, Filoni.
5:55 Thrawn did not throw Shin away. She ran away. It's not a nitpick if you invent it.
Would have been very interesting if Thrawn had been cornered to confess to Morgan that everything we saw; inventory and men were literally all he had left. That the Chimeras repulsor lifts were the only propulsion, power and fuel that remained. Show the barely air tight Chimera shuddering, creaking and groaning to stay aloft. I know it's only real purpose now was as a promised shipping container, but it'd been cool to have someone insist that they simply return on the EYE. One or two lines to illustrate his unwillingness to abandon the repairable Chimera, to confess it's inability to move, his inability to overwhelm, his need to settle for delay-defend-distract and sacrifice as his only strategies. To show how Morgan had simultaneously offered him a rescue and put him near check-mate by bringing the Jedi. That's what cost Morgan her life. King sacrifices Queen near check-mate.
Isn't this kind of what happened?
Thumbs up and hard agree, I believe that this is what Filoni likely wanted to portray, but the execution was lacking. It wouldn't take much either, during the part where Thrawn was talking to Morgan about tactics, he could've added that given his current resources and situation, there's nothing he can do except for delay-defend-distract and sacrifice
Overall, I hope Filoni gives Thrawn a decent ending, and Thrawn isn't nerfed anymore due to Plot Armor. Cause he's already been undermined by THE weakest ISD Bombardment ever.
Granted, Rebels did this too. Base Delta Zero can't be a thing in Disney Star Wars cause it would take forever to pull it off for these ISD 1's and 2's
I hope Filoni is able to give Ahsoka any kind of ending. But that's just wishful thinking since Filoni is obsessed with keeping his Mary Sue character alive.
@@shawn092182Say you never watched Clone Wars without saying you never watched Clone Wars
@@boshwa20 Say you have no rebuttal without saying that you have no rebuttal.
tie fighters could have just hovered and fired away. And yes, thrawn could have left within the first 5 minutes of the episode. So the other 35 minutes of losing troopers and etc. etc was completely unnecessary
His ship couldn't even leave atmo. He needed the ring to come down and hook up. That didn't happen until later after loading. Thrawn should've had the ring hook up once Ahsoka was on the planet as there would be no reason for it to stay in orbit, unless it was clearing mines for when they left. Which we saw no mines when they left.
I find is absolutely dumb that thrawn didn't already have the cargo loaded onto his Star Destroyer before Morgan arrived. There's literally no reason for this and its not explained why it wasn't done in the show.
@@uhagi6720 the cargo part was one of the few spots I had no trouble with, maybe the cargo couldn't be loaded onto the ship until the Eye arrived due to 'shelf life' issues, or maybe the Great Mothers would only allow them to be loaded when Morgan arrived and return was assured. not too much of a stretch and didn't seem like something that needed explaining. The other errors people have been pointing out are far more of an issue than this.
@@uhagi6720 why would the great mothers agree to have their undead nightbrothers or whatever loaded on Thrawn's ship if they didn't know if Morgan would actually come to get them or not?
They kept telling me how much he was a mastermind I didn't see that at all
To dummies smart people seem like fools.
Well in the original book trilogy he beat the whole NR with only 50 star destroyers and a bunch of other made in china ships
a minor defence of Thrawn is that he did wait until it was confirmed that Morgan had died before firing on the tower. but agree with most of the other points, plus Thrawn could've called the Eye of Scion down before all the cargo was loaded so that his ship could connect to the ring right away. that ending really messed up my enjoyment of an otherwise entertaining show.
You could argue that bringing the Eye of Sion down too early would've made it vulnerable to an assault from Ashoka's ship, and if the Eye were damaged during such an assault, they would've been delayed even more.
It's really important to keep your only means of escaping a galaxy safe.
I feel like this is one of the major problems with Thrawn. Like if Thrawn was actually Thrawn he would be too overpowered so in order to actually have the good guys win the story writers have to either make him a normal imperial officer, something he is way to good for, or make the good guys come up with some McGuffin to beat him. Or a little of both.
Truth
Thanks for saying it, I was subconsciously thinking that without even realizing it. It’s hard to do live action adaptations. That’s the only reason why I’m forgiving to some but not all of the latest Star Wars properties.
Very true, this goes back all the way to Rebels with how they beat him then. The problem with writing genius villains (in any media) is that they’re far easier to build up as a threat than they are to bring down when it comes time.
In Rebels when the writers needed Thrawn to lose they took the route of making him near-perfect but constantly undermined by his idiot subordinates just to keep it a scenario where the good guys COULD logically win.
Filoni could have done this again and had some surviving officers with him serve as Thrawn’s handicap, but after 10 years there’s no way he would have kept them around. Morgan Elsbeth could have been the fool, but then that would have made HER character worse after being so competent earlier in the season.
The problem is that they wrote themselves into a bad corner where they couldn’t think of a logical weakness for Thrawn in the scenario they put him in.
Tbh the only change I can think of that might have worked without messing something else up would be if a portion of the New Republic fleet somehow hitched a ride with the Eye of Scion, making Thrawn the underdog in this scenario instead of the one with the upper hand, then he outsmarts them and leaves them stranded. Which would have changed the whole plot on Peridia and required a lot of changes in the first half of the season to properly set up. All in all, a hypothetical plot that would have been difficult to execute properly in such a short season.
@@TeenageMutantZuckerTurtle I personally think if you can write a bad ass over powered villain, then it’s time to step up your other characters. They could have pumped up Ezra more. He could have spent the last 10 years communing in the force with guidance by ghost Jedi. Then when Sabine and Ahsoka shows up, he’s quirky from being by himself for 10 years but ridiculously wiser. He’s so much better, that he sensed the future and begins to execute his plan to hurt Thrawn and isn’t surprised to see Ahsoka and Sabine. I would go as far to say that he’s so good, that he does some big sacrifice that kills him.
Thrawn and the empire in general, are the coolest thing going in this show. Yet, I totally agree with what you said. You stated the obvious very diplomatically and Thrawn is definitely not the brilliant leader we know from the Zahn novels.
I like Ahsoka better than anything since Mando 1&2. But it’s weak in so many ways. Child-like really. Very basic without true intelligence. They need to add a few consultants so they make this stuff a bit smarter.
My biggest complaint isn't even the lazy plot. The writing is disappointingly on-the-nose. Everything offered is one-note with little depth. Filioni needs to go watch some Kubrick films and improve his dialogue by watching some Tarantino movies.
It's hard to write Thrawn as being a tactical genius when the protagonists are supposed to be fighting against overwhelming odds. There will always be plot holes and tactical missteps because otherwise the rebels will lose every single time if the antagonist behaved logically.
They could pretty easily get around that by doing what Rogue One did and make a point of the force guiding them, instead of just making it assumed as part of the setting
@@TommySkywalker11 Or better yet, give Thrawn a series of obstacles to overcome from a position of great weakness. This would have been a great opportunity to really focus a plotline on Thrawn and give the audience something diffrent. We've seen dozens of bumbling mustache twirling Imperial officers. We've seen the plotline of these officers given vast resources only to loose everything. This is boring writing in Star Wars at this point.
This entire series is a Monumental Collection of Plot Armour...
If Thrawn and the Witches knew they were getting rescued, why didn't they load the cargo ahead of time?
Bad writing can't make smart characters smart.
I think it’s because they didn’t know exactly when, all they knew was they would be saved
Maybe they had to prepare the cargo?
Maybe they did began the process the moment they reached out to Morgan?
Not just that, but they could have been loading the cargo and attaching the Jump ring at the same time. That way they would have left well before Ahsoka would be able to reach the Night Sister tower.
They’re so use to making the antagonist do dumb things they forgot Thrawn is a insane tactician.
These aren't nitpicks. These are actual major story problems that many viewers noticed.
Thrawn knew that the season was about to end and sent wave after wave of minions to run down the clock until the credits rolled.
It was infuriatingly bad writing. Earlier in the season we watch 6 fighters shoot pointlessly at the jedi ship for 5 mins to no effect. The one run of tie fighters disables it. There is no internal consistency...things change to just serve the plot
And telling witch lady to go slow them down and she lets Ezra and Sabine pass to just fight Ashoka.....just so stupid
Guess i am not included in the "many viewers". 🤷♂️
@@kotor610Plus, the great mothers needed to do something cooler than playing with their red triangles 🔺
The real Thrawn would have built up a new Empire and new army ready to invade, not just sat around hoping someone found him.
Plot armour sucks when the antoganist looks like a complete fool
I felt that Thrawn also mismanaged his time poorly. Why weren't the caskets already on the ship to begin with? Did they not have any space and had to wait until Elsbeth showed up? Also, why wasnt the Eye of Scion docking with the Chimera while they were loading the caskets? Do both tasks in parallel, and be gone before the Jedi even reach the temple.
You saw how close to the ground the Chimera was when it was docked with the tower. The Eye of Sion was way too big to get that close to the ground
The night mothers may have not allowed it until Morgan had arrived
If they're stasis pods (considering the thing with waking the mothers), it's possible that they're resource intensive and a limited time thing before whatever is in them wakes up.
the casket loading was one of the few areas that felt fine. it appears that containers have some type of refrigeration, so perhaps the caskets had a very limited 'shelf life' and thus it was necessary to load them only when the Eye of Scion arrived. But yes, the eye of scion should've been brought down while the caskets were being loaded, that seems like very basic common sense.
I had basically the same reaction to all of it. The problem with a lot of Filoni stuff isn't so much the result as it is the execution. I get that he has an idea of where he needs the plot to go, he needs the crew to get to the tower so they can have their little zombie battle and fight Morgan Elsbeth, and that's all well and good, but there are a thousand ways of getting them from point A to point B and Filoni always seems to go for the straight path, which just makes his villains feel like chumps.
For the finale what epitomises this for me is the turbolaser bombardment as they're going to the tower. They just ignore it... Just nah, not gonna hit shit. Thrawn had all this time to set it up, and they just croco-doggy straight through it no problem. There are a thousand ways he could have gotten them there, while also allowing Thrawn to look good. Have the bombardment force them to fall back and find another way in, blow a hole in the ground they all fall into, revealing a convenient underground tunnel system leading inside, all kinds of wacky plot devices that allow Thrawn to still look competent. And what did he humiliate Thrawn for? So Ahsoka, Sabine, and Ezra could open a door with the force, it wasn't even something cool.
Filoni needs to have his writing team come up with less straight forward solutions to problems. If the protagonists get attacked, it's fine if they don't solve that problem in that same scene, you can push it forward to a later point, in fact it's usually better that way. TIE fighters attack the ship? Everyone fall back! Take cover in that ravine over there, which leads the long way around while Ahsoka's ship flies off to pull the enemy away, getting damaged and crashing in the process, and that can be what buys Thrawn enough time to finish his preparations or whatever. He wins, but the story progresses the exact same way regardless. Stakes raised, entire show elevated. It's like he views confrontations as mere obstacles between plot points, something to overcome in the moment, instead of seeing them as potential storytelling moments.
To give a good example, take the basic intro quest in any D&D campaign. Your party has been tasked with delivering X from town A to someone in town B. En route your wagon is inevitably assaulted by goblins or gnolls or whatever. The wagon breaks, the driver dies, and left to explore the immediate area after the fight leads the party to find a cave and enter their first dungeon. Standard fare. You think you're going somewhere but then something happens that throws the journey off course onto a different path entirely, yet this was always the intended path and the original quest was a mere red herring. I feel like if Filoni had directed this quest you would defeat the goblins and get back on the wagon to continue unmolested to town B, and that's just not as interesting.
The thing is, Thrawn would've killed Sabine and Ahsoka when he destroyed the tower if their ship hadn't magically been repaired in 30 minutes because of plot armor. Even Thrawn seemed perturbed by the plot armor.
Thrawn was obviously preserving his resources and his army. In the age of the Imperial Remnant, that is very important. If he comes home with a sizeable force like he did in the show, he'd garner the warlords' respect. If he came with a tiny force, he'd have to beg the other warlords for help........which would then put them in a position where they could control him.
Sure, but he effectively lost more resources because of his indecisive actions. He won time, but essentially allowed his forces to be defeated in detail instead of taking advantage of his superior intel and numbers.
I don’t think it’s preserving resources if you causally and willingly sacrifice a talented witch, and like 50 night troopers and 2 death troopers
@@Emanon... He didn't lose shit. Just a few mooks and two fighters. Morgan was the heaviest loss, but Thrawn has more witches in his disposal.
@@lightningleopard That's a tiny fraction of his total force.
To be honest, in the scene with the 3 heros on the stairs deflecting blaster bolts, they looked like they were dancing on a stage.
Biggest mistake I couldn’t let go of is how Thrawn never even considered locking down the tower. All the doors were left open! Even Ahsoka and crew thought about locking them to slow down the night troopers. How did the strategic mastermind not think of that as a simple way to slow his enemies down? Even a tad? It would’ve added more time to his escape without costing NOTHING.
He is only as smart as the writers are.
The impact of that tactic is absolutely null when your enemies have door-cutting laser swords.
@@thechunkmaster8794 it still takes a little bit of time to cut through doors with a lightsaber. Anything helps
@@alexshinra6722 If only the writers actually read the Thrawn novels.
I think Thrawn wanted to remain docked until his hyperspace-ring coupled to his ship was in case he needed to deploy the night sisters or his fancy bodyguard to stall the Jedi even further, which he could hardly manage from an undocked ship.
The Jedi want to make it to his ship on foot because it’s safer to approach from within the tower than on a starship. However if he undocks, their only option will be the starship which is much faster and more likely to succeed in reaching him despite the risk. So in locking them inside the tower with an army of zombie troopers blocking their exit, he can undock and sail away with zero risk of being caught.
Almost 0 risk.
The ship was disabled
@@nickgennady Not entirely, as it turns out, right?
@@MrTheWaterbear fair
Yeah if he wasn’t docked to the tower it would be much easier for them to attack the hanger bay and destroy the cargo being brought back to the main galaxy. Staying docked to the tower limits their options to a ground assault which Elsbeth and the troopers successfully held off.
Even with Thrawn's mistakes I not only hope that he learns from his last encounter but also any writer learns to also write him slightly better
Don't get me wrong Thrawn is decent with the portrayal we got so far but I do generally hope he simply gets better and better to where he is almost similar to the Thrawn books
(Heck maybe he isn't that great at fighting a smaller group and might excelle fighting in a full fledged war)
3:00-3:15 Don't worry, man. My dad and I are the exact same way when it comes to combat scenes or anything that requires a lick of common sense.
There is an unfortunate truth about the Mandoverse and most other Disney live action shows: they have to be “dumbed down” to fit their larger audience. The shows are written so than the average viewer uneducated in the lore can sit down and enjoy the show. Because of that, complex and nuanced characters like Thrawn often have to be simplified to better fit a recognizable archetype, in Thrawn’s case that being the villain. The average viewer probably doesn’t necessarily want to have to constantly think too hard about who is the hero or the villain, why the villain is doing what they are doing, or if the villain is truly evil. Sometimes for the viewer’s sake, it is easier to just make those things obvious and make the villain more clearly evil and flawed. It also in Thrawn’s case makes the plot armor for the heroes seem a little less jarring.
It’s only in less mainstream shows like Andor or the animated shows that more complex characters like Thrawn, Luthen Rael, and Maul can really shine. The mainstream shows have squeezed in more complex characters like Baylan Skoll, but he is unfortunately more of the exception rather than the rule. Generally, the characters in the mainstream shows are going to be simpler than those in other Star Wars media.
Perhaps repulsor lifts of Chimaera are only partially operational, and incapable to lift it any higher without help of Eye of Scion, but then they can just move it away from this pillar...
Edit: Many had tried to reach other galaxies, but alway failed. Morgan is indeed formidable character, hybrid of witch, warrior, logistics officer and industrial Tycoon? Her lose here is really bad, and frankly, loosing few TIE fighters or few dozens stormtroopers instead would be better choice.
Edit2: It is hard to write very intelligent characters, because you need to think like them, you need long time to think through decision wich this character will take in few seconds and all of its repercussions, there is a reason only Timothy Zahn can portray Thrawn acurately.
My thought was that the ships crew was severely diminished and they simply didn't have the operational capability to do too many things at once leaving obvious dumb openings like needing to sit still too long or leaving hangar doors open. These ships require massive crews. Thrawn is a wounded animal projecting strength so that the real predators on the planet don't attack.
Of course, that's just apologetics for what is probably poor writing, but still..
If that was the case with damaged repulsors then filoni SHOULD HAVE STATED THAT in dialogue in the episode
@@richardhittmann12Yes! Forcing funs to make headcanons and then release some patch in form of comic or book few years later isn't really a sign of good storytelling.
Edit: as much as I like theorizing, it shouldn't be required from reader side.
Agreed on Thrawn's demeanor vs Rebels.
He was more Tywin Lannister in rebels including the resemblance.
For live TV turning up the ruthless might be the way to go though.
Hey, I like the way you really appreciate that which character made me want to watch the show just to check her out I like your assessments in an analysis of the franchise and the story lines. You seem like a smart dude
Thrawn: *returns*
People who red the trilogy: The empire's heir has returned!
It’s better than somehow Emperor Palpatine has returned
@@isaackim7675 I mean yeah, the writers actually thought about how Thrawn returned, instead of “space magic” bs go.
Finally, someone is nitpicking my least favoritefinale of a Star Wars show!
I had those thoughts before so I found some answers that give me peace of mind.
If narratively moving the Chimera upwards makes MC's straight unable to do anything - you have to make a in world reason why you can't move it upwards. Sure it wasn't stated vocally, but it still reads.
Thrawn has a perfectionist problem. If he thinks 2 TIEs are enough to take down jedi shuttle (which it was) - he wouldn't send a third.
If clearly you can't move Chimera because [ Unknown Plot Reason] you need volunteers to sacrifice, but for them to be actual threat when they are zombies they should at least fight like nightsister zombies, like they did with deathtroopers, or to be hordes and hordes of them, which you can't fit in one filming "dome", nor explain by narrative reason, because there not much personnel left. I don't know the clear solution for this, so I just passed it as allowance in immersion level.
Honestly, they had a fairly straightforward reason to not move the Chimera IMO - The ship is damaged! It's kept operational but even keeping it hovering could be very challenging for the crew, so if they just said something along the lines of mechanical problems or something like that, it could've fixed that entire issue of not moving the ship.
All I gotta say is, everything that was before he said "Prepare for ground assault" and after Ezra got into the Chimera, was pure stupidity and I was unable to suspend my disbelief at all. Other than that, it made sense more or less.
I liked that Thrawn's personality has changed. The fact that he had to rely on Force users to get him out of exile after another put him into exile, has to have effected him somehow. His dialog with the Nightsisters hints to a reluctant alliance on Thrawn's part in spite of the loyalty of Morgan.
She sacrificed a lot to rescue Thrawn with what seems to be the promise of a revitalized Dathomir.
This is sheer cope. Thrawn just sucks in this show.
@@Flopdoodle Being benched on a mud planet with only witches for company for a decade is going to blunt your abilities a fair bit
@@Klijpofr, dudes just seeing freaky ass shit happen with these sisters using bewildering magic, idk what id think except that they are of use.
@@TiL_Deimos Well they've clearly been feeding lots of pies to him...
"Another such defeat and our victory shall be complete."
-Thrawn, just before the end of the Battle of Peridea, in my head canon.
So just to recap:
Thrawn's minefield failed to stop the Jedi.
Thrawn's orbital defenses failed to stop the Jedi.
Thrawn's force-users failed to stop the Jedi.
Thrawn's stormtroopers failed to stop the Jedi.
Thrawn's TIE fighters failed to stop the Jedi.
Thrawn's Star Destroyer turbo laser batteries failed to stop the Jedi.
Thrawn's zombie troopers failed to stop the Jedi.
Thrawn's swords-witch failed to stop the Jedi.
And Thrawn still won.
*Because he treats the Jedi as though they have plot armor. Which they literally do.*
Alex: "But why didn't he move the ship!? But why didn't he move the ship!? But why didn't he move the ship!?"
They didn't clarify, Alex, but it probably wasn't because "Thrawn is a big dumb dumb." Get over it.
You're mostly pointing out weaknesses in Filoni's writing. I'm usually able to shut my brain off enough because he is extremely gifted with overall narrative and feel as opposed to details. He could benefit from a military advisor. Maybe' bring Zahn in closer, though my friend's experience working with Tom Clancy at Red Storm always reminds me authors are a complicated bunch. Some authors aren't natural collaborators.
I think you need to spend more time examining his narratives. These issues have been present since the Clone Wars. His pacing is bad, his character development doesn’t make sense, and he always writes the same stories.
@@TerminallyChill85 My expectations on fantasy and sci-fi in this regard are necessarily low, perhaps, I'll grant you that. I wouldn't be able to enjoy Warhammer 40K if that were not the case. However, I wasn't speaking to character narrative so much as general narrative, the flow and connectivity of all the elements in a way that is easy to process throughout a series. Perhaps there's a more articulate word to separate such from individual character narrative. Which if you think about it, is again about the small details. I would agree he struggles with consistent characterization which often seems unnecessarily sacrificed to the greater narrative. He plays real hard to his strengths without factoring in the weaknesses in doing so. Still, he has time to improve, career wise.
If Thrawn was viewing Ashoka as a copy of Anakin Skywalker, sending any amount of fighters above the minimum would be stupid. :D
He expected that sending 12 fighters would result in the loss of all 12 fighters, because Anakin is just that good. Also, he would have to contend with the possibility of the Jedi managing to recover 3 or more TIEs from the fallen group and maintain their advance. Two fighters has just low enough capacity to require the group split, and we can figure out that they won't split up.
We assume that Thrawn made a mistake by not leaving sooner, but perhaps he simply couldn't. We don't know the extent of the damage to the Chimera, nor the power requirements/availability of moving something so large in atmo.
It's also true, however, that after 10 years stranded, his mind would be dulled, and his emotions would be more of a driving force. In this case, that would likely mean anger and a desire for revenge, ideas he has likely spent plenty of time contemplating. It's not the Thrawn we knew, it's what he has understanably become
I was thinking the whole episode if I'd been Thrawn, I would have had ordered the troopers and witches aboard the Chimera the instant the last pod had been loaded, taken off the instant the last one stepped aboard, docked with the Eye either before the pods had finished loading or after leaving the atmosphere, and not spoken to Ahsoka. Once Ahsoka arrived, every second he spent on the planet cost him people and resources.
Why didn't Thrawn just blow up the tower when he was finished? Some explosives on the lowest level, boom tower gone.
Only thought in Thrawn's defense here is that we don't know what resources are waiting for him back in the other galaxy. He might really be going back with a few hundred zombies, a dozen TIEs, and a dream.
Under-committing at every step seems silly to us who know that the Republic is not waiting for him on the other side and is aware that a decent chunk of the Remnant is waiting for him, but for him, these are all the forces he KNOWS he has access to. He may also be concerned for the wellbeing of his troops too, which is weird for an imperial but he did just spend ten years with only these guys...
Not moving the ship though is pretty oopsie tho.
Thrawn is fine. He's just fine. When strategy is required, other than buying time, I'm sure it will appear as though it requires some thought.
Filoni fanboys coping with how shitty he portrayed a classic character lol
Thrawn is not fine, but you have to lie and say he’s fine.
Oof
Take a deep huff of that there copium boyo
Filoni doesn't know how to write Thrawn.
If your replies got more likes than my comment, I might put some thought into it. Dave has been consulting with Zahn, so stop getting your panties in a bunch about Dave's portrayal. It isn't something Zahn knows how to guide him on in live-action.
If you need that perspective, get with Dave and guide him through it. Good luck, but complaining about it isn't helping.
I don’t think Thrawn had any intentions to win the fight but to learn as much as he can. You have to remember he just found out the Empire has fallen to the Rebellion and has become the New Republic and he has plans to begin his campaign to restore the empire. He knows very well he will not have another opportunity to learn how a Jedi thinks so he’s taking the time to learn what he can and then leave. He knows he has already won but he doesn’t want to miss out on the chance of learning his potential adversaries capabilities before leaving.
There were sections of this episode that suffer heavily from plot armor, and reworked plot threads specifically so that something the writer wanted to happen would happen. Regardless of whether it was be an in-character move, intelligent, or not. Filoni wanted to see Morgan and Ahsoka fight again AND on Perridia, and so he found a way to make that happen at the sacrifice of intelligent plot choices.
We saw the Jedi shuttle leave the tower, but there is the slight possibility that they brought Morgan's body with them. If they know about the Dathomiri witches (and I'm sure Huyang does, along with stories about them - the dude is 25K years old), they could expect the possibility of her resurrection, and find a way to use her, or talk to her, or get her to help stop Baylin's quest to free Abeloth - if they can get Morgan to tell them about the Mother. Or Huyang knows about Abeloth.
If they didn't take her, Abeloth could use her power to protect Morgan's body before it could be crushed, and posses her. I'm thinking she may devour Baylin, and take over either Shin or Morgan, because at this point, I'm sure Ahsoka knows they have to be on this planet for a reason. They'll figure out that that reason is to stop Baylin from releasing Abeloth.
If they fail, Abeloth could use the discord in the SW galaxy to cause a massive event that cripples the NR to the point where the First Order has the ability to rise.
I'm betting that she, Morgan, Baylin, and Shin are all going to be a nice family.
And of course, Hera shows off Ezra as proof about Thrawn before Thrawn throws off the curtain at Dathomir showing off himself and all of those cryo'd night sisters all "Surprise, mofkrs."
I agree on the plot armor point. It seems like the writers wrote themselves into a hole and used plot armor to dig themselves out. They could have avoided a lot of this by not having the night sisters detect Ashoka's arrival. If she arrived stealthily and Thrawn didn't know she was there then some of his blunders could have been more easily explained. Also the finale felt way too busy. Too many things happened that didn't need to happen. I would have been just as satisfied if not more so if Thrawn just took off as soon as his cargo was loaded and abandoned everyone on the planet and the whole episode was just Ezra, Ashoka, and Sabine exploring the planet trying to find a way off it.
I miss your old battle analysis videos. Those were fun
Nice to get a break from all the tragic news to watch some Generation Tech.
Indeed 💯% Good new week o/ 📺🍵🧘 [Forever M+ Subber who waits for The Skeleton Crew like seeing full moon above sandy beach] ⏳
huh?@@Fedaygin
Fighting the urge to push her off the fortress….😂😂😂👌
Maybe Thrawn doesn't throw everything he has at them because it would deplete his resources if he lost too much and he needs his resources to deal with whatever may be beyond Peridea once he breaks orbit. He hasn't been able to escape so he doesn't know what is out there. There could be a whole fleet out there waiting to trap him. Thrawn is the type of guy to expect the unexpected and be prepared for it. It's why he's willing to sacrifice so little.
I very much agree. Thrawn knowns he only has one shot at this, his guys are lower morale, exhausted, probably not all there after a decade on an unknown planet.
Sending limited forces, moving slowly and committing overwhelming firepower, is the right move here. Every second his ships are up is a potential unknown and wear and tear off of them. Sending more gunships to pin the protagonists down assumes the existence of these ships and their readiness, and Thrawn's willingness for them to be lost.
Flying into the ring immediately again assumes the general operability of the Chimera which seems to be held together by Thrawn's sheer intellect. Docking it to the Eye of Sion was a zero risk operation with a damaged ship, and they definitely do not have the ability to repair things should they damage either.
Did Filoni think of all of this? Possibly, possibly not. But there are very intelligent reasons for Thrawn to have made most of the moves he did. Again he doesn't have hindsight, nor has he read the script. Every move has to be made with the priority being leave the planet with as many guys as I have while expending the least amount of resources and lives and without damaging his one chance out.
I think this is something the writers didn't convey well enough. But I agree with your assessment overall. But because it falls unto the viewer to make these assumptions and just accept it, reveals a bit of the flaw in the the writing. @@AntoineVello
in terms of the ties, it makes sense though. the empire produced quantity over quality, but to give them shields, life support, hyperdrive, etc. is super expensive especially at the scale they have to produce. the theory was that the pilots were so well trained that their skill made up for the lack of safety measures. unfortunately the only time i see competent and skilled empire pilots is from fan films and video games.
I read Zahn's trilogy every other year. I get it with Thrawn. But tbh it was not that bad. I think he was scared of something and wanted to get away. His ship was in rough shape.
Lmao you read Zahn's trilogy every year and your takeaway from this season is "Thrawn was just scared, give the poor guy a blanket". Thrawn was nothing like the Zahn novels. Whatever hand Timothy had in this show, it didn't stop Filoni from butchering his character.
Operation Run Home Scared is a complete success!
Ikr. Thrawn is my favorite character and I don’t see all these problems with his character. I actually think they did a decent job compared to how the other new Star Wars stuff went. He actually was a lot like he is in the book’s always being a step ahead
@@stephenkuchler951 People like to complain about Disney shows because its the hip and cool thing to do. Honestly, I feel he was portrayed exactly how he was in rebels, although i will say there is a noticeable contrast between Thrawn in the novels vs here/Rebels.
@@DrPhenom911finally someone who gets me, I do absolutely loathe the sequels, but thrawn was portrayed as perfectly as he was in rebels. I also thought Kenobi was decent, around 50/50.
3:00
Me too brother.
When i saw those troopers slowly walk down 3 different sets of steps to start firing at basically 3 force users i died inside.
I could hear my old Drill Sgt shouting "GET OUTTA THE FKING KILLZONE!!!" while those troopers waddled into the center.
These nitpicks are on point. But the illogical and absent-minded decisions make a certain amount of sense. Yes, it takes me out of the story for a bit. But one of the things I actually liked about the Thrawn episodes is that it captures how TZ's Thrawn would behave in a situation like this. Poor bastard is loosing his mind, becoming unhinged. 😢
That's not true and you know it. He is clearly being portrayed as both having his wits about him and being every bit as tactically competent as he was before.
the writers, however, ARE losing their minds and becoming unhinged.
hardly surprising considering the audience's reception to this piece of garbage show
I suspect that Star Destroyer while looking impressive on the outside I suspect its being held together by multiple rolls of OB’s duct tape. Try to move it again and an engine drops out of the back. I’m sure you have had toys where you have lost the plastic battery lid on the back - Thrawn has just gone and lost a Destroyer cargo hold sized one of these.
See I think Thrawn didn't leave because of what you said. He is more broken and deranged. He wanted to see his Nighttroopers perform after death for future use and he wanted to get revenge against Ezra, who hid from him the last 10 years. Thrawn allows one stow away but ultimately is successful, Ezra alone stayed hidden and became a messenger rather than a warrior. Thrawn would assume more jedi exist and that the New Republic may have suspensions of his return. A stow away acting as a messenger would alter his plans little to none
Left another comment to say you’re my favorite Star Wars UA-camr and one of my favs in general. The music always slaps and you have great in depth opinions on Star Wars, even if you’re a little too lenient on Filoni sometimes imo.
I think this scene could have been drastically improved by moving the cargo transfer being completed to while the Jedi are scaling the tower, that would explain why Thrawn did not move the Star Destroyer and sends the Night Troopers to defend the tower and leaves Morgan behind. I also want to note, I have been reading the Heir to the Empire novels, and I feel like Thrawn is definitely a straight up villian in those books. He has Rukh execute one of his men for failure, he bombards Honoghr to ensure the Noghri's loyalty and admits to commiting genocide on an alien race, wiping out the entirety of said race.
Thrawn wasn't underestimating the Jedi when he sent two fighters. I've seen a lot of folks misunderstand that but as a Thrawn fan you should know better. How many times have we seen jedi's in ships annihilate opposing fighter forces? He sent two, enough to get in an opening shot which they did. Disabling the ship temporarily. The more fighters sent the more likely they would be spotted before they could engage. And the more sent the less he had left. Thrawn's know Jedi effectively have plot armor. Send his last dozen fighters after them and there is a very good chance he will be left with not fighters and no assurance the Jedi was dead for the cost. Not to mention he might need to fight a battle before he can reinforce even back in their own galaxy. Those fighters were far more precious to defend against conventional enemies. Then throwing them into a fire against a Jedi he was safest to avoid confronting directly.
The fighters made sense. If anything I'm amazed the disabled the Jedi ship and put it down to successfully managing to surprise them. That stupid thing was TANKING TURBOLASERS from the eye of Sion for a good while there. If it's defenses had been up and the Jedi on board no way in hell a mere squadron of tie fighters could have taken it.
How tf could Thrawn set up a MASSIVE minefield in space when they were low on manpower and limited supplies? There must been have hundreds if not thousands of space mines.
droids
Possible from the sion
The zombies were definitely a weird addition to the story, I even thought that when the showed it on clones wars, but they should’ve been a bigger game changer with Thrawn’s plan since he already has tons of troops that probably didn’t survive the planet:
They would’ve been more expendable than his living troops and therefore, better for something as simple as a delay tactic.
They could’ve been sent to support the mercenaries against the caravan (although, I think they could’ve just supported them with fighters) and them being harder to kill and unknown until this point would’ve delayed them longer.
He also should’ve just used already dead troops to defend their escape. By the time he even resurrects them in the show, the heroes are already at the stairs. If they were already undead, they would have to spend more time fighting through them while the live troops evacuate.
They could’ve even slowed them further by disabling the doors to the stair, like what the Jedi did to the zombies, or rigging them with mines or some kind of explosives.
Hell, if they had any hazardous waste that may be left from running the Star destroyer for years, they could’ve used that since the troops there don’t need to worry about it; it’s all or nothing at this point.
In my head cannon I saw it this way. I suspect that Thrawn knew exactly how many resources he had available (fuel, TIES, officers, troopers, etc.) to bring the Chimera safely back to the original galaxy. This kind of meticulous planning and knowledge is very much in character for him. This would also explain the hesitancy to utilize more than 2 TIE fighters against Ahsoka's shuttle. Expending resources for his fighters against a single target would be pointless because they could not be replenished. If the shuttle pursued him while leaving and he calculated they'd catch him before he jumped to hyperspace he could have scrambled the rest to sacrifice themselves to allow his escape. He probably knew precisely what fuel/power it took to get the Chimera to the docking pedestal and waited a safe distance away while waiting for Morgan to answer his call, in case someone might have taken over the Eye of Scion and used it to come finish him off. Would explain why the Chimera was nowhere near the pedestal when the Eye's shuttle arrived. This is very much in character for Thrawn's preparatory and cautious nature. You'll notice when he was back in the regular galaxy he remained docked to the Eye, utilizing it's power to move the Chimera. Thrawn knows what he's doing. This is why when Morgan made obvious suggestions about sending more troops, he hesitates, and knows that she's correct, but makes the calculations of the minimum that is needed to stop the threat while probably planning multiple reserve steps to quell any threats that might slip through (a perfect example is the dispatching of night troopers, then Morgan, then 2 purge troopers). Also you may notice the complete lack of Navy officers aboard the ship, those who normally pilot the Chimera stayed off camera the entire time. The bridge was likely at least partially destroyed and the navigation abilities may be severely limited while Naval crew quite possible all died along the way and the ship was being piloted from a secondary bridge location by junior officers or worse yet, stormtroopers. Moving the ship higher was an expenditure of resources he may not have been willing to make if he already had the Eye of Scion calculate positioning for interlocking with the Chimera. Moving it to another location might have cost him time to have the Eye recalculate, which would potentially allow for the Jedi to reach his ship via their shuttle. Thrawn sees all these possibilities in that brilliant blue brain of his.
I like your thinking here. I wrote my own comment to Alan. I wasn't so sure about Thrawn as Alan was, with whom I usually agree. Among other things, I noticed that Thrawn made it clear to us and the Night Sisters that he did what he did for the Empire. Morgan made no such clarity before him, which I'm sure he could have noticed. When Morgan says she does what she does for Dathomir, he might not have heard her. But that doesn't matter to a brilliant strategist who uses people. Without telling us directly, he not only sacrificed her but also made sure that his dirty work could get blamed on Ahsoka in the eyes of the Night Sisters, so he allowed the Jedi, whom the three Night Sisters agree "reek" (when they saw Sabine), the open opportunity to kill her by keeping his ship in place until he was ready to leave on his own timetable. That way, she and the Night Sisters would lose all of Morgan's intense dark magic so they could never go rogue for Dathomir at the expense of his plans for the Empire. Great writing. Dave Filoni nailed it, IMO.
The goofiest thing to me was when Thrawn called his own plan wise.
Baylan, Shin and Morgan carried the show imo. They all just worked so well together and they were actually giving the protagonists a hard time. I feel like the show started to fall apart a bit at the end. I thought it was a little ridiculous that Sabine was able to force push Ezra at the end after having just used the force for the very first time. Thrawns decisions felt disorganized as opposed to calculated.
It’s difficult to portray a character in live action compared to writing or animated.
But this thrawn is the MOST dangerous one. Thrawn used to have morals and value all life. While he still values the life, he has lost his values in exile. He was defeated, he is in fight or flight mode and he’s ready for a fight
Ten years of fighting Notis may have dulled the Grand Admiral's sharp mind . The lost of Morgan Elsbeth was definitely major, plot and visual wise. Her fight scenes were easily the best in the series. Though to me, her "For Dathomir!" hinted maybe at a displeasure or even split from Thrawn's goals. Maybe Thrawn felt that too and decided to get rid of her.
When you hire an actual martial artist and stunt woman to do the acting and fights you get quality fights. As they know how to do that part extremely well as it was her job for decades.
"For Dathomir" spoken under breath after Thrawn's back was turned....to me it sounded like The Night Sisters' interests were not exactly aligned with Thrawn's. For all their "at your service, Grand Admiral", I'd say Thrawn was being double crossed there.
@@ljiljanasrebrenovic9500 There is at least some kind of deal. I believe the things they loaded up are nightsisters. They have a deal Thrawn gets home he takes them ot Dathomir. After which we don't know the end of the deal will they still aliy with thrawn or will they betray him. We just don't know yet.
@@jasondiend4248 obviously there is a deal, and some mutual interest. But I have a hunch that there's more to it than Thrawn is aware of. Also, having seen Morgan Elsbeth's final fight with Ahsoka I get the feeling that she was fighting to the death not because of her fierce loyalty to Thrawn but rather for the sake of Dathomere...
You are the only good Star Wars content creator I have found. Everyone else who makes content for Star Wars seems to actually hate Star Wars.
or not actually no what they are talking about.
I just love lovee the ambience and Ahsoka S01 soundtrack. Looking forward to restreaming with relaxed pace starting early january 🙂 2x episodes per week, paused for a while after fourth & continue after couple weeks. Of course always stream in dark room via Mickey+ telly application 📺 Well said in overall about the boom boom vs undead scene.
I liked & disliked it. My high school rating for S01 finale is 7.5/10 & that's nor best or worst that i gave for S01 episodes. [Four years non stop M+ subber & stays forever] 🙂
what about ezra making a big deal in the last ep about using the force, more specificly, force push, instead of a lightsaber, and then forgetting in the finale that he can literaly just force push the zombie troopers off the cliff haha
he can’t anymore, he can only force nudge now 😂
Honestly I'll maintain Thrawn is not brilliant tactician, but he's a competent military commander in a galaxy of otherwise incompetent commanders. The difference is subtle, after all everyone is written by screenwriters and book writers.
So for examples of how everyone is incompetent: at the outbreak of the Clone Wars, Jedi lead Clone troopers to charge across open terrain to attack enemy armor. Why? The Empire invests in the Tarkin doctrine when it would have been cheaper to prevent Rebellion by literally bribing the people. Make everyone's lives better under the empire and suddenly no one wants to rebel. Who needs democracy if God king meets all our needs? The Emperor then doubles down and personally goes to the Death Star instead of using a decoy. In the Mandalorian, the Mandalorians have a reputation as great warriors. In season 3 we see them funnel into kill boxes and get suppressed by a heavy weapon implacemnt, almost as if none of them are carrying back and wrist mounted rockets. They don't seize the high ground, establish an overwatch.
All of these are peak strategy (including assuming the high ground is a strength in a sword fight, it's not) of screen writers. Competent tactics would run rough shod over everyone.
I would hope they do an Infinity War Style Thrawn series where he's the protagonist in a way, leading essentially an Imperial Rebellion against the New Republic. Strategically there's a huge oppurtunity for him to operate as a pirate fleet or even multiple pirate fleets around the New Republic, to gain resources, steal ships, build up their forces, give field training to recruits. All while allowing the New Republic to overlook the pirate threats in the rim. It reduces the New Republic military from suddenly getting funding and direction, while undermines republic support on the fringes. He could even capture New Republic frigates, which are much more resource efficient compared to his ISD, and possibly event start production on the TIE defender or other more optimal fighter and boarding craft. The when he has resources gathered to launch simultaneous attacks across the galaxy as an Imperial Warlord, then maybe he can scare the Republic enough to claim several systems who would flock to him to gain safety from the "pirates"
On one hand, you're right.
But on the other hand, I generally don't think.
Starwars would be able to handle people actually using proper tactics.
He doesn't waste resources, Mr Tech. Just enough to make a point.
I felt that the writing was lacking when it came to Thrawn's plan. Its literally like rubber banding in racing games where the AI falls back in the mid part of the race only to come back during the final lap.
Excellent new week to everyone and thanks to Alan and his tech bud for nice video 🙂
A lot of people here are overestimating how good the original Thrawn was. His writing was less amazing and the New Republic was just dumb. They were written to be incompetent. Thrawn was the dude who had a bodyguard from an enslaved race aboard his ship...the same bodyguard who kills him. Not exactly 200IQ move. He was also beaten several times canonically. People got this weird cult-like worship of Thrawn being godly. YOur average writer is not in the military, nor would even a military officer necessarily be a genius strategist. So you are unlikely to actually get that level of performance. Temper your expectations unless you think Disney is going to hire a genius military officer to write Thrawn.
How about use the original writer who still alive let him write and do checks and balances to make sure thrawn is right I'm not happy with his appearance he doesn't have pupils and his eyes do not glow
Shin Hati did not return to Thrawn… she rode away on her Howler. Thrawn never discarded her. She chose not to return.
Also, attacking the Jedi on the ground, when they can just force sense their way around laser blasts, while Thrawn needs all the ships and soldiers packing up and ready to go wouldn’t make sense in his mind. He calculated accurately that two TIE fighters would disable Ahsoka enough to give him more…time.
He is hitting the balance between conservation and buying time. Other than Ezra, he pretty much succeeded in that.
My theory is that Thrawn wanted to destroy the holy citadel of the Nightsisters without the Mothers suspecting his real reason for doing so, when it seemed the most tactical (and it was tactical - if Huyang hadn’t repaired their ship in time, they would have died.) I believe he wanted the Nightsisters to have nothing to return to. We see their reaction to its destruction with shock. He, who understands art the most, also understands what drives the Nightsisters, and he wants to master them for his uses.
Many people have tried to tell me that Thrawn does not care about his troops. Yes, I agree that he is using them, but he literally gave up some valuable resources - a very loyal Morgan Elsbeth - to combat the feared padawan of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader. I don’t think he wanted anyone to die. He even says, “There’s no negotiating with the padawan of Anakin Skywalker,” showing us that he would have preferred negotiating if he thought it at all possible. I believe that what he is telling himself is that if they don’t get away from Peridea, then they all might as well die, so he needs to use his most valuable resources. It’s want versus need, for the villain. The only thing he seems to care little for is witchcraft and the undead. Even then, he still cares if his troops become undead because of its distasteful dishonor.
I thought Thrawn honorable, thoughtful, knowledgeable, and very likable.
His victory speech at the end was delicious. If he can taunt Vader about his identity, he certainly can taunt Ahsoka!
alot of mental stretching to allow yourself to enjoy bad writting
It was very clever that despite Baylan gave Sabine his word on finding Ezra, but it wasn’t Thrawn’s word on giving the order in finding him and kill him
The failure to lift the Chimaera higher for docking, combined with the needlessly late departure, is so weird that I almost think Thrawn wanted to eliminate Morgan just as he was keen to be rid of Baylan and Shin.
I think the flaws in the writing for Thrawn are likely a result of the writers being unsure of how to write a Thrawn at his full potency as a military leader, and have the heroes survive, let alone have a hope of returning to help the New Republic for season 2, or ever. It would have been better for making Thrawn out to be the military mastermind he is, but it would have made writing a show that ended after season 1 or leave Ahsoka, Sabine, Ezra and Huyang all stranded or dead at the end of season 1. I think the way around that would have been the addition of a counter for Thrawn, a new unforeseen variable or unknown he could not predict, who could have offered the heroes another option. Let him utterly devastate the heroes. But give the heroes some way of continuing on after Thrawn achieves his goals of stranding them and leaving with his ISD, caskets, and nearly all of his troopers and Tie's intact. I'd like to think now that Thrawn is in the main Star Wars galaxy, and that he is now the underdog with less resources than his enemies, that we will see the Thrawn everyone knows and loves, as in that situation, it's easier to write a military mastermind and not end the show after 10 minutes of his pure genius, as his enemies and challenges are much, much greater.
If only he had done everything perfectly, he wouldn’t have failed to get back home.
Leading up the Tharen’s appearance they built up his character sooooo much that it was hard not to be disappointed. I was expecting a strategist mastermind that would be 20 steps ahead the entire time. Or one of those TV tropes where you think the hero might win but find out the villain had planned for that exact outcome the entire time. In reality he barely escaped and at significant loss.
So right now as a casual Star Wars fan I’m thinking, ok Thrawns ragtag and battered army is back… who cares shoot them out of the sky. I know that’s not will happen but I’m not really worried about the state of the Star Wars galaxy right now which I feel should be the cliff hanger.
Morgan Elsbeth got done dirty by Thrawn. She spent years working to build that big ship and find the path to get to the Great Mothers, only to be sent to die.
Writers must be intelligent enough together to write an intelligent character
facts
You are right about the multi star-trooper choreography ... Looked like the Puppet Space Shows !!!
Thrawn is a tactical genius. Regardless of any mistakes in his strategy... Thrawn still escaped
In the heir to the empire books he is, too bad they couldn’t make him a genius in disneys new canon
Not here is isn’t
@@mitsuzune His forces are in a highly weakened state. Two Jedi have been known to take out an entire capital ship by themselves. His aim was to get away and get back to his home galaxy while preserving as many of his forces as possible. In that regard, he succeeded.
You’re not likely to get the exposition in live-action as you will in a book. Keep your panties on and try to keep them out of your crack. 😂
*Thrawn slams pepee in starship door.
Thrawn fans: - Masterful gambit, sir.
They had to nerf him else he was gonna win hands down and also him being out of battle practice, being 10 years rusty makes since.
But we all know if Grand Admiral Thrawn was allowed to be himself his true self, they would've lost from the jump.
But this shows Thrawn is good at calculating parts of strategy. As you said he knows the Jedi and rebel are unpredictable.
I agree with you on the Thrawn not moving the Chimera. Other than that, I think he played it decently. He was walking the fine line of trying to make sure he got away, without overcommitting forces. Only send the troops you are willing to lose. And ultimately, he did succeed in escaping Peridea, and who knows the news of Thrawn's return will likely work to his favor, as there are plenty in the New Republic who would be more than willing to switch sides, once that news gets out. I think he is situated very well.
Being intelligent enough to see plot holes and bad writing is not a character flaw😅
I actually love it when you over analyze these episodes.
I don’t think you can just turn the key, start the engine and move away with a Star Destroyer. Running the engines to full power, pre-flight checks, laying in a course… Besides, even when he asks Morgan Elzbeth for more time, you still see troopers boarding the Chimaera. When the Chimaera moved - that was the earliest point in time it could move. Filoni should have made that more obvious though 😅
They could start the preflight sooner while loading, as the point is that the ship won't move until it's ready. So no, that argument doesn't work.
While a lot of people say they hated the show and that it was terrible, I still liked some of the ideas within, despite the flaws. I do also agree the show could have been better in several ways, even though I found enjoyment in what I thought was good about it.
I’ve started to believe Star Wars will never be the same as it was under George, as much as I’d like it to be. Different people are working to make Star Wars after all.
I keep coming back to Yoda’s talk with Anakin in Episode 2 when I think about this series (the talk about learning to let go of everything he feared to lose). Star Wars, as it was with George, is my favorite franchise; I don’t think I’ll ever stop loving it. But I think it’s time for me to move on from the hope that it will be the same and enjoy what I can. Maybe I’m just becoming a normie.