How to Pronounce Latin Prose: Ecclesiastical, German, English Styles / De Latine Pronuntiando

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  • Опубліковано 27 січ 2025

КОМЕНТАРІ • 78

  • @Jojo66630
    @Jojo66630 4 роки тому +41

    You managed that German pronounciation quite well (some small differences, but who cares). It put me right back into school.

    • @ScorpioMartianus
      @ScorpioMartianus  4 роки тому +14

      Toll!

    • @BruceCarbonLakeriver
      @BruceCarbonLakeriver 3 роки тому +2

      @@ScorpioMartianus Ja, hörte sich wirklich sehr Deutsch an :D
      GLG

    • @acgamer1916
      @acgamer1916 6 місяців тому

      @@BruceCarbonLakeriver er hatte aber deutlich hörbare struggles

    • @BruceCarbonLakeriver
      @BruceCarbonLakeriver 6 місяців тому

      @@acgamer1916 Und? Die habe ich selbst manchmal, als Muttersprachler xD

  • @parrot027j8
    @parrot027j8 4 роки тому +13

    Wow. As a native german speaker I am really impressed how you mastered the german accent, it was quite authentic! The "r" still sounded more like a french "r" sometimes, but I imagine that's the most challenging part for a native english speaker ;-) and there were words where it did sound really good as well (o tempora o mores, for instant)👍

    • @parrot027j8
      @parrot027j8 4 роки тому +1

      Correction: the "mores" tended to be a little french. But the "tempora" was flawless👍

    • @ScorpioMartianus
      @ScorpioMartianus  4 роки тому +2

      Haha danke!

  • @Mi_Fa_Volare
    @Mi_Fa_Volare 6 років тому +36

    I certainly did not expect the content of this video to be consequently spoken in Latin. Like a video time forgot.

    • @ScorpioMartianus
      @ScorpioMartianus  6 років тому +3

      Haha I hope the subtitles help! :) Thanks for watching.

    • @jackmate4943
      @jackmate4943 4 роки тому +2

      ScorpioMartianus is it worth to learn Latin? I've heard it's very helpful with enriching your vocabulary in English and solid foundation for most of European languages even Germanic ones

    • @Mi_Fa_Volare
      @Mi_Fa_Volare 4 роки тому +1

      @@jackmate4943 Indeed it is. I can confirm you that point. As a German, English vocabulary can come in handy in Italy. So it's even better the other way around. And thanks to English, I know the sophisticated German words which so very often stem from Latin.

    • @jackmate4943
      @jackmate4943 4 роки тому

      volarecantare I'm on my way to learn German, Dutch, French so I thought why wouldn't I give it a shot and learn Latin? I know that Germanic language roots are less Latin more proto-germanic but from what y'all say it will enrich, help it anyways

    • @Mi_Fa_Volare
      @Mi_Fa_Volare 4 роки тому

      @@jackmate4943 They're Germanic in their cores. But there's a lot of Latin in these languages. Like at least 60%.

  • @SaturnineXTS
    @SaturnineXTS 3 роки тому +6

    The German pronunciation is also taught in Poland (well, obviously minus the whole German accent and phonology thing), but reading "ae" as just "e", and "c" as the [ts] sound for instance. Some say that such pronunciation is actually the closest to Medieval Latin - at any rater closer to it than Ecclesiastical is. Personally I like it more than Ecclesiastical but less than Restored.

  • @hunterharris4869
    @hunterharris4869 2 роки тому +4

    I think I'm one of the few who actually enjoy the quirkiness of the traditional English pronunciation of Latin. There's a recording of a mass using said pronunciation: John Sheppard's Missa Cantate performed by the Gabrieli Consort. The track, "Deus creator omnium tu theos ymon" incorporates a bit of Anglicised Greek as well. It's odd to modern ears to hear the choral works of Tudor-era composers using such an idiosyncratic way of pronouncing Latin, but it's ever so charming in a way. Love your content btw!

  • @mariosilva1887
    @mariosilva1887 5 років тому +4

    Salve Magister! It's amazing how having subtitles can improve one's understanding of latin. Unfortunately I do not have the time to «dive» in latin and in latin grammar but it always gives me great pleasure when I find a video that does have them.
    I played this video from the beginning to the end, then I started playing it in chuncks stopping and going back again several times and trying to mimic what «master Scorpio» was saying.
    Vale! greetings from Lusitania!
    P.S.: I love your Acta Diurna.

    • @ScorpioMartianus
      @ScorpioMartianus  5 років тому

      Obrigado! 😃 There is a new Sermō Latīnus Rapidus series you might like: ua-cam.com/video/2oNJgzblLkQ/v-deo.html

  • @ivanradu2503
    @ivanradu2503 4 роки тому +2

    Salve, magister! Sine cura sis! Omnes dictione bona est. :-)

  • @sebastianheinrich8683
    @sebastianheinrich8683 2 роки тому

    4:00 Ecclesiastical
    9:40 German
    12:15 English

  • @irodjetson
    @irodjetson 4 роки тому +3

    In eclessiastical pronunciation the words Nihil or Mihi the H is pronounced as a "K" sound.

    • @ScorpioMartianus
      @ScorpioMartianus  4 роки тому +3

      That's optional, but not manditory.

    • @sebc.917
      @sebc.917 4 роки тому +2

      In italian we actually have the word "annichilazione" with Ch=K sound.
      In Florence's vernacular the intervocalic consonant "Ch" is always pronounced as [h] or with the sound [x] similar to the greek consonant χ (=Chi)

    • @BrandonBoardman
      @BrandonBoardman 3 місяці тому

      ​@@sebc.917I agree, but I prefer to drop the h in nihil and mihi in both the Classical and Ecclesiastical pronunciations.

  • @radovanmarcincin2502
    @radovanmarcincin2502 4 роки тому +4

    I always wondered, what was latin like in medieval Hungary, and slavic nations?

  • @alcuin18
    @alcuin18 4 роки тому +4

    The roots of Italian in ancient Latin can be felt even more so when Latin is pronounced fluently. The sound is quite similar.

  • @urbanus152
    @urbanus152 7 років тому +8

    Ave, Luci! Numquam audieram linguam Latinam Theodisco aut Anglico more pronuntiatam. Vere est ut dixisti: quando syllabarum quantitates servantur, sermo facilior intellectu fit. Optimus Latinitatis magister es! Vale!

    • @ScorpioMartianus
      @ScorpioMartianus  7 років тому +3

      Ave, Urbane! Ipse vero parvissimus sum Latinistas, magisterque minus :) sed multas ago gratias propter verba tua humanissima. Laetor te omnia perpectasse, longissima enim est haec et anterior pellicula de hoc argumento! Equidem locutionem Classicam cum ejus phonematis malo, sed siquis Ecclesiasticae etc. phonematis uti velit, fiat! :) Rem momenti censeo esse numeros (quem ego "rhythmum" appello).

  • @utinam4041
    @utinam4041 4 роки тому +17

    As an Englishman, I find the traditional English pronunciation of Latin both hilarious and more than a little embarrassing. While Latin speakers should of course be tolerant and good natured about each other's national accents, it might be kinder for all if we were to draw a line at Anglo-Saxon accents, where the death penalty might be the most appropriate response. Moritoorus tay salootow!

    • @EngliscMidEadwine
      @EngliscMidEadwine 3 роки тому +5

      That's not even traditional AngloLatin pronunciation - that's Classical Latin with an English accent.

    • @tereseshaw7650
      @tereseshaw7650 3 роки тому

      @@EngliscMidEadwine Rem acu tetigisti!

    • @josephshlanta8870
      @josephshlanta8870 3 роки тому

      @@EngliscMidEadwine yeah. If you don't get any English long "I"s, then you're definitely doing it wrong

  • @RobertFuszenecker
    @RobertFuszenecker 4 роки тому +2

    Vero omnes pelliculas ScorpionisMartiani amo: multa discere pallicula videnda audiendaque possumus.

  • @tereseshaw7650
    @tereseshaw7650 3 роки тому

    Salve. I learned the Recovered Classical Pronunciation. I was under the impression that the Anglophone world had adopted it.
    A question.. We know that Latin books published in the UK need to issue an "American" edition. For those who don't know the 2 countries use a different sequence for the declensions. Americans use nom., gen., dat., acc, . abl. The stem is found in the genitive form . In Britain the acc. follows the nom. I assume the stem is found in the acc. form? Also, principal parts of verbs are listed in different orders.
    I wonder when and why this happened. Does anyone know?
    "
    .

    • @ScorpioMartianus
      @ScorpioMartianus  3 роки тому +1

      Essentially the whole world has adopted the Restored Classical Pronunciation, with the exception of basically all of Italy and a few places in Eastern Europe.
      The nom, gen, dat, acc, abl order is the international order of declensions, and is also the order of the Ancient Romans and Greeks.
      Principal parts? Like faciō facere fēcī factum? That’s the only way I’ve ever seen

  • @BruceCarbonLakeriver
    @BruceCarbonLakeriver 3 роки тому

    I'm not sure, I'm going to Uni and need Latin. Well I have to do a course anyways but I want to get it right beforehand to better concentrate on my chosen subject instead of "additional courses". Getting Latin somewhat fluent would be something which turns this additional challenge into a fun thing for me. I'm in Austria and I have to assume the "german pronounciation" although the italian actually is more beatifull to me. I like the rolling r from the italian language (which I've learned a decade ago and almost forgot everything HAHA).

  • @crilincrili4866
    @crilincrili4866 4 роки тому

    The "catilinariae" aren't written in poetry, in Italy we use the meter only when the text is a poem (Catullus, Virgilius, etc.) For meter I intend the unusual intonation (like a song) and the fall of the "m" or "am" before a vocal.

    • @ScorpioMartianus
      @ScorpioMartianus  4 роки тому +1

      Actually, Cicero's orations and prose *are* written with metrical rules in mind. That's the point. To understand his work, you have to pronounce the long and short syllables correctly.

    • @crilincrili4866
      @crilincrili4866 4 роки тому

      @@ScorpioMartianus I'm talking about the ecclesiastical pronunciation (5.00). I'm not saying that your classic version is wrong.

  • @Mathematics9Corps
    @Mathematics9Corps 9 місяців тому

    Hey if you are a Latin teacher may you make videos for kids to teach them in a beautiful calm way and without music
    Thanks ,8 years
    From Egypt ,

  • @hex1lexi88
    @hex1lexi88 4 роки тому +11

    I’m sure there’s someone out there who can listen to the English pronunciation and take it seriously without laughing, but hoo boy is that person not me! Lol

    • @MrJm323
      @MrJm323 4 роки тому +1

      ua-cam.com/video/GuvJQlBtrXE/v-deo.html&t .

  • @Bazun64
    @Bazun64 4 роки тому +3

    You should do polish-latin pronoucing. That's very different ;)

    • @ScorpioMartianus
      @ScorpioMartianus  4 роки тому +2

      My friend Catharina Ochman, who is Polish, does this beautifully on her channel Noctes Wratislavienses 😃 🇵🇱

    • @Bazun64
      @Bazun64 4 роки тому

      @@ScorpioMartianus I didn't know about that. :P
      I was learning latin all my life, now I'm monk :P Greetings from PL

    • @gioq4702
      @gioq4702 4 роки тому

      it will be certainly better than a English pronunciation

  • @Pongant
    @Pongant 4 роки тому

    Ir's interesting how the german pronounciation leans a tad towards french

  • @NEOVOLTER-gaming
    @NEOVOLTER-gaming Рік тому

    The German style definitely is my favorite)

  • @WilfriedHLingenberg
    @WilfriedHLingenberg 7 років тому +4

    De rhythmo ante omnia conservando prorsus assentior. Veterem Germanicam pronuntiationem optime etulisti, etiam consonantes s (cum syllabam incohat) et r! "scientia" Germanice proferri solebat "stsientsia" (non iocor!), "proficisci" ut "pro-fi-tsiss-tsi", et cetera huiusmodi (sic etiam pronuntiantur verba Theodisca quae a Latinis deducta sunt velut "Szene"). (NB: Inter "effrenata" et "iactabit" non est elisio aut synaloephe, cum littera i ante vocalem designet consonantem neque vocalem.)

    • @ScorpioMartianus
      @ScorpioMartianus  7 років тому +2

      Recte! Non tam bene possum more Germanico traditionali; melius scis tu.
      Sed ego non feci elisionem inter "effrenata" et "jactabit" (etiam J scripsi hoc agnoscens). Iterum ausculta! :P

    • @WilfriedHLingenberg
      @WilfriedHLingenberg 7 років тому +3

      Ah, bene. Illa littera j mihi speciem habebat signi elisionis, et litteram a antecedentem citissime pronuntiasti ... Perperam ergo iudicavi, ignoscas ... :-)

    • @ScorpioMartianus
      @ScorpioMartianus  7 років тому +4

      Hahae, ego?! Numquam erro! hahahae. :D

    • @horstheinemann2132
      @horstheinemann2132 6 років тому

      In fact, as a German who had some Latin at school I can say. Elision is not a part. And neither is the nasalisation. It is pronounced as though it were German.

  • @servantofaeie1569
    @servantofaeie1569 3 роки тому

    Zat German one had a sicker German accent zan I vas expecting!

  • @MagisterCraft
    @MagisterCraft 7 років тому +6

    Optime fecisti, etsi diabolus es! Vale, peccator! :D

    • @ScorpioMartianus
      @ScorpioMartianus  7 років тому

      Hahae, sum quidem! Caput durum est mihi... Gratias!

    • @BrandonBoardman
      @BrandonBoardman 3 місяці тому

      Quam rīdiculum! 😂😂😂😂😂

  • @jamesnincross
    @jamesnincross 3 роки тому +1

    Is English Latin is horrible on the ears, or is it just me?

  • @EngliscMidEadwine
    @EngliscMidEadwine 3 роки тому

    What you're speaking is not even close to Traditional English Latin, it sounds like you're reading Classical Latin with a strong accent (and a few Frenchisns like ti > si). Real traditional English pronunciation should be incomprehensible to Europeans: /kwəʊ ʌskwiː tændɛm æbjuˈtiːriː kætiˈlaɪnə peɪʃiˈɛnʃiə nɒstrə/ etc. Traditional English Latin was so bad that the English devised a "continental" Latin to be used around Europeans when needed - pronounce English Latin but replace /eɪ iː aɪː juː ʌː/ with the closest approximation English had for European A E I U: /ɑː eɪ iː uː uː/. So in "continental" English Latin it would be /kwoʊ uːskweɪ tændɛm æbuˈteəreɪ kætɪˈliːnə pɑːʃiˈɛnʃiə nɒstrə/ etc.

    • @ScorpioMartianus
      @ScorpioMartianus  3 роки тому +1

      Much obliged for all your kind comments. The pronunciation of Latin in England continuously shifted with the pronunciation of English in its great vowel shift. The lack of comprehension was noted by Erasmus. A century or two prior it was some of the most comprehensible Latin in Europe. Go figure.

    • @EngliscMidEadwine
      @EngliscMidEadwine 3 роки тому

      @@ScorpioMartianus Yep. But the traditional English pronunciation should be looked at not as specific sounds but as a mapping of Latin sounds to your accent's English ones. "A" is the sound in "name", "E" is the sound in "speak", "I" is the sound in "mine", "O" is the sound in "bone" and "U" is the sound in "cute" - because English spelling stayed frozen and we let it influence our Latin.

    • @EngliscMidEadwine
      @EngliscMidEadwine 3 роки тому

      @@ScorpioMartianus It's honestly kind of hilarious, how we went from "having some of the best (comparatively) Latin in Europe" to "I couldn't tell the Englishman was speaking Latin to me, I thought he was speaking English" in so short a time.

    • @ezzovonachalm9815
      @ezzovonachalm9815 2 роки тому

      @@ScorpioMartianus
      It should be forbiden for English students to try to pronounce latin or greek texts : a catastrophe is inevitable

  • @michaelgrabner8977
    @michaelgrabner8977 3 роки тому

    In Austria the "german pronunciation" would be a little bit different..the most distinct difference would be the "R"..we do not pronouce the "R" with the throat at all, unless Tyroleans when they speak in dialect but those do it way more extrem, they literally snarl sounding like a sawing handsaw and that is no exaggeration. But generally we slighly roll the "R" but I know Germans from Germany especially those from the North do as like you did... and our "S" is a little bit sharper as you did ...as same as like you did in your ecclesiastical version.
    Well we are closer to Italy therefore I think that´s why we speak those slightly differently...historical the italian language had an heavy impact in our local german language in general anyway because we ruled in Northern Italy till World War I for centuries therefore the cultural exchange was huge and italian was also for centuries the language of our noble houses/dynasties before french became "en vogue"..That cultural exchange went in both ways by the way..Fun fact: if you didn´t know for instance the coffee "Cappucino" was originally invented in Vienna = "Kapuziner" brought to Northern Italy by our in Italy stationed soldiers and from there it spreaded over the whole italian peninsular..But originally it was a mocha with wipped cream and fine chocolate crumbles on top and it is still today an old Viennese coffee speciality, one of many others.. But the Italians changed it later after the invention of the espresso machine into an espresso with milk foam and cacao powder...we Viennese consider that as "the downgraded version" ;-D

  • @gabem.5242
    @gabem.5242 4 роки тому +1

    Pronunciam Ecclesiae admonet me domo mea, Britannicae iocus est, Germanicae tragediam.
    (Trying REALLY hard to recollect 5 years of Latin in Scientific High School from 10 years ago. Sorry for any big fuckups I'm sure to have made.)

    • @ezzovonachalm9815
      @ezzovonachalm9815 2 роки тому

      Gabe
      7 errors. You should better massacrate japanese ou oualillopapatese.

  • @EpilepticSeagull
    @EpilepticSeagull 7 років тому +1

    Luci, te certiorem mihi faciendum est te non recte pronuntiatione Anglica locutum esse. Vero, adeo pejor est haec pronuntiatio.
    Vide hoc librum: archive.org/stream/annalsofwestmins00sarguoft#page/272/mode/2up.
    I. All letters have the force which is natural to them in English words derived from Latin. Thus C and G before E and I have the sound of S and J respectively, as civis, genus. A stressed or half-stressed vowel before another vowel or H is sounded long, as deus, Priamus, Diomedes. A long A, I, and O have the sound of a diphthong, as in English.
    II. Of monosyllables in all enclitics and in those which end in a consonant the vowel or diphthong is sounded short, as que, soli, quin, haec, except huic, which is a traditional exception. In all others the vowel is sounded long.
    III. Of dissyllables the penultimate vowel, if it be followed by a single consonant or by T and R or L, is sounded long, as amo, scelus, Titus, onus, furor, lyra, patrem, triplex. Traditional exceptions are ibi, tibi, sibi, quibus, Paris, and ero, eram, etc., from sum, to which Greek influence has now added ego. In all others the penultimate vowel is sounded short, as cinctus, cunctus, nondum, sanctus.
    IV. In words of more than two syllables, if the penultimate be long, the quantities are observed before a single consonant, as monebam, amavi. If the penultimate be short the ante- penultimate is also sounded short, as monitum, veritus, but in earlier syllables the quantities are observed, as mirabilia. If, however, a penultimate vowel other than U be immediately followed by another vowel the ante -penultimate vowel is sounded long, as habeo, melior, moneo, imperium, but monui ; except where the two vowels are both I or its equivalent, as utilia, Nicias, Pythius, Libya, video, inhibeo. The same principles apply to earlier vowels : thus the first syllable of amaverunt is sounded short, and the first syllable of Dicaeopolis long.
    V. As an exception to these rules an initial short prefix keeps its quantity, as subit, redeo, ineo.
    N.B. - The fourth rule has of late years so far broken down that in words ending in a dactyl or cretic a long vowel, unless followed by two consonants, keeps, except in proper names, its true quantity. Thus the ante-penultimate is now sounded long in sidera, Nomina, viaticum, but short in Sisyphus, Lydia, Euripides, Neapolis. This innovation is to be regretted, as it is contrary to the genius of the English tongue.
    Complex as these rules may seem, they present no difficulty to an English boy, whose lips have not been guided to an alien pronunciation.

    • @ScorpioMartianus
      @ScorpioMartianus  7 років тому +1

      Hahahae! Incredibile lectu. Sane, ego non eam pravissimam pronuntiationem non bene novi. Gratias pro hoc! Hoc exemplum feram Neapoli septimana proxima ut ego ibi dabo acroasin de pronuntiatione Classica.

  • @georgebaccett9951
    @georgebaccett9951 3 роки тому +1

    English does not come from Latin, but after the Norman conquest its vocabulary and structure was brutally modified. In a BBC report, the University of Oxford states the following: the English language is made up of this way: Vocabulary: 60% Latin, and only 28% Anglo-Saxon; grammar: 48% Anglo-Saxon structure, 39% Latin structure; the rest of the grammar structure comes from Celtic and Greek. For this reason philologists consider English a Hybrid, saying that English is a hybrid is the right thing to do.

    • @crusaderACR
      @crusaderACR Рік тому +1

      Well to the non English speakers, your language *sounds* extremely Germanic.
      And the more casual you speak... the less Latin elements you see.
      To drive this point home... as a Romance language speaker I can understand major parts of other languages in the family. Sometimes over 90%, like in Portuguese, and with zero training. Mastery in Portuguese for a Spanish speaker like me takes months. English takes years in the best case. English took me a LOT of practice to get used to the sounds and structure and for the first few years of dedicated training I could only catch a few parts of it. Completely unlike any Romance language I've seen.
      Thinking of English as anything BUT Germanic is impossible for me.