Latin Pronunciation: Calabrese System for Classical Latin | Classical Latin Pronunciation Guide
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- Опубліковано 4 лют 2025
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• Calabrese System Pronu...
Link to the paper "Evolution of Latin Short High Vowels" by Andrea Calabrese:
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This roman citizen really fluent in english.
He served in the legion in Brittania. You can see by the legionary haircut.
@@Stray___ hahahaha
He had an anglosaxon paidagogus when he was a child
*is
He's actually convincing me English isn't his first language in this video
I absolutely love his energy. He's the the kind of teacher I would want in school.
Deep Solar thanks so much! 😃 I teach courses at AncientLanguage.com if you’re interested.
Also see my channel ScorpioMartianus
I'm not bad with my latin teacher, I mean, she's so nice and adorable. I would like her and this guy to be both my latin teachers
@Peter Möller I'm not that grown up. I'm still taking classes on High School, but what you have recently said is so true. I can say I didn't have many good teachers, but I'll always remember those who were nice to me and made me learn a lot. My latin teacher and my German teacher are the best teachers I'll ever have, and I'm so happy I've met them and that we have shared joyfull moments.
Pd: I'm Spanish and I'd love to learn Swedish
I like also his body! :P
Ego amo etiam corporem suum! :P
I'm italian and I feel so honoured to be Italian when this guy talks about this nation and its language and its ancestors. For real. This channel is incredibly good and I wish it was much more known
Molto gentile
I make-a da pizza too
Idem. Stesso per mi.
It took me 15min into the video to realize that Calabrese is because of the author's name and not because it comes from Calabria 🤦♂️
Same ahahaha
Ditto, lol!
Same here
Hahaha, same! Ego stultus sum. :-)
@@rdespradel Stultissimus tu es!
Bait for italians: every italian will come here thinking that citizens of Calabria speak the true latin
cazzo mi hai beccato subito... GUILTY!!
Indeed, we in the North lost the correct way and were influenced by Germanic languages.
@@piafounetMarcoPesenti un esempio per tutti, le celeberrime vocali turbate
@@ammazzamoro You are aware I wasn't making this remark in any negative sense, don't you?
Noi parlamu u calabrese 😂
It's really weird when you speak English, I got used to hearing you speaking Latin all the time. Hahae!
Hahahae! Optime!
Or, he should be using something other than an American accent with English...like an Italian accent...or something.
I love your passion for the truth, as well as your humility to realize that there's no such thing as "wrong" and "right" language. Very well presented, sir! I am studying Latin because of you
Much obliged!
Italian speaking english impression:
- Start: literal super Mario stereotype
- After 5 seconds: so accurate it hurts knowing at one point I did speak like that
ho pianto, poi ho riso, poi ho pianto perchè se ci penso è drammatico :D
That Italian impression was on point, the way they struggle to say our weird vowel sounds.
I was taught Latin at the University of Chicago by a Texan, who used completely unmodified Texan vowels. UGH!!! At the University of Wisconsin, my major professor studied Latin in Belgium. His Latin was not only very Italian sounding, but also extremely natural.
Yes! Belgians sound great when they speak Latin. I know a few.
I could kiil for listening a texan dude speaking latin with a strong texan accent. xD
@@compota334 I picture brad pitt speaking Italian in Inglorious Basterds as a close approximation
@@aadarshbalireddy2939 beautiful moment
Imagine the face of a Roman centurion while he sees you talking to him with a Texan accent.
"Quid est 'howdy'?" (Carefully reaching for his gladius)
This explains a lot. (Including how you seem so fluent in classical Latin!) I studied Latin in junior high & high school, and I remember well when our Latin teacher, John Zidik (who published his own learning-Latin book), came back from a conference all excited about the latest theory of classical pronunciation. That's when I learned to use short-i (which I remember more than short-u) in place of the Italianate pronunciation we were learning up till then. Now that I look up the original publication date of "Vox Latina," it turns out to be 1965: two years before my high-school graduation, while I was in the middle of learning Latin. In the spirit of "everything you know is wrong," I'm thoroughly enjoying this.
John Berry absolutely fascinating! Yes, heh, the short i and u are suspiciously like English. I appreciate your keeping an open mind here too. 😊 Vowels can permanently change quality without having an intermediate stage.
The italian accent was perfect 😂😂👍🏼❤️
Antonio Zaccaria grazie!
He's Italian...
@@pursuitsoflife.6119 italian american
especially the hand gesture at around 10:25
I think its great how you explain that no pronunciation is inherently "better" than any other - I prefer classical pronunciation but ecclesiastical is beautiful to listen to!
Thanks! See this video: ua-cam.com/video/zq3FJNibKHk/v-deo.html
He said that all of the alternate pronunciations were equal, not that they were just as legitimate as the reconstructed classical pronunciation. Historical accuracy is the defining factor.
@@matthewheald8964 But how legitimate is reconstructed? How many different accents, way of speaking were there back then? It seems to me english, germans and other northern european latinists reconstructed latin to fit their on capabilities. Their pronunciation of the so called ''reconstructed classical'' sounds just like english juxtaposed to the language. I'm native of a neo-latin language and I laugh when I listening to the ''reconstructed classical latin'' spoken, it's just latin with germanic sounds. Which is ok but not the standard.
@@moacirbarbosacastro8923What you’re addressing is not the reconstructed Latin that Luke espouses, nor from what you’re describing does it sound like any legitimate reconstruction. What you are describing sounds to me like the Anglophone/Germanic pronunciations of Latin with zero attention paid to the original phonology (e.g. pronouncing “AVÉ•CÆSAR” as “AH-vay KAI-sahr” in the English pronunciation); no phonemic vowel length, germinated consonants, or any effort to restore vowels or consonants to their original qualities so far as those qualities would contradict those native to the speakers (which, might I add, is exactly what the Italians often do with their Ecclesiastical pronunciation, ignoring phonemic vowel length, palatalizing “c” and “g”, etc.). If what you are referring to is that reconstruction of Classical Latin mentioned in Vox Latina (with short “i” pronounced as in “fish” and short “u” pronounced as in “should”), that may well be how they spoke, but I don’t agree that it is the most likely reconstruction and neither does Luke Ranieri, proposing instead the five vowel qualities found in modern Spanish for restored Classical pronunciation and the seven vowel qualities of modern (Brazilian) Portuguese or Italian for restored Rustic pronunciation.
Bravo, Luke! Fascinating! I was an exchange student in Argentina (years ago) and acquired Spanish and some Italian. I returned to the US and studied them a bit more to fill in gaps, but also picked up some Portuguese and French. I chucked it all out the window for about 18 years in Japan and when I came home (back to English) all the Latin languages feel like comfortable well worn PJs. I don't know how to explain it. I've never studied Latin, but I get it. Perhaps not every word, but it's fun to listen to! And I love your Italian accent. Es perfecto!!!
Thank you!
I've only watched scripted videos from him to date, and now that I've seen him just freely talking I can say that I absolutely love his energy.
Thanks so much! 😃 I prefer freely speaking like this too. Some topics though require really specific information that I don't want to get wrong. Thanks again!
Sono GRANDE fan Lucca! Sono Calabrese! Sono Italiano Americano e mi piace tuoi video! Voglio parlare Latin, e di più, ma mi piace tutti i contenuti che ti crei! I'm still learning Italian am also in love with Neapolitan, but have also shared your interest & love you have for the Romance Languages. One day i plan to learn Greek & Hebrew as well, so look forward to your future material.
Not only is the content really great, but the way he presents it and explains his points is so natural, interesting and charismatic that it becomes much easier and also much more fun to learn. You get really charmed and enthusiastic by the way he speaks so passionately but clearly about the topic. Kudos!
Thanks so much! 😃
I'm from Sardinia and I always struggle with è and é, ò and ó in Italian. Phonetics lessons at Uni were so funny at first, couldn't get one right. 😂
Of course my friends from the rest of Italy make fun of me for the way I use vowels and my accent, but hey, I speak like Cicero!
Right!
I'm from Bologna and we tend to open some random Os and Es. Like, in Bologna /perke/ becomes /perkε/, or we have no distinction between /peska/ or /pεska/, so that is sometimes a problem here too
Without you know, ya are a native speaker of latin, or better than this, prenative speaker. Nice for you.🥂🥂🥂🥂🥂🥂
SO you should do a video so the rest of us (Anglophones) can actually hear it! !!!
So funny to hear English-speakers teach how to speak Latinate languages.
Indeed, hodiern english is latine idiom english speakers should learn more neolatine pronounciation and latin pronounciation.
After being away from Latin for many years and now coming back to it , I have come to a conclusion about the benefits of studying Latin aside from the sheer pleasure of learning and imagining the ancient world through Roman eyes and ears (which is enough, really). If one agrees that writing is actually a form of thinking then studying the way the Romans wrote is in fact studying how they think. Therefore, the study of Latin is the study of the thought process, how thoughts are ordered and ideas developed. This might be said of any language except that the Latin "plan" as I think Hoyos described it, is so different from that of modern languages, the student is forced to really probe deeply into language construction and the relationships between words and ideas. This brings a whole new dimension to one's ability to analyse and make sense of things. That's my two cents anyway.
Yes - Spoken, it was "vulgar", musical, intuitive and LOUD. Written - is how the cultivated classes communicated. Anything handed down to us ("tramondato") was impeccably curated and schooled, showing off rhetorical methods and levels, and complications of sentence and argument structure. Making sentences long and complex just before the point of "explosion", when sentences just can't take a grammatical content anymore.
I must say. I've always loved the idea of Latin coming back. And here he's speaking Latin. I'm so happy. I would really love to participate in helping with spreading the Latin language and bringing it back into communities🥺😭❤️❤️
Aww instant love as soon as you said "the standard italian is the most beautiful language in the world" :D Apart from that, your videos are fantastic! So educational. Fantastico
Glazie, Claudio! 😃
@@polyMATHY_Luke figurati bellezza!
5:32 Well if an expert said that, he must be right :D
Your pronunciation is fantastic. It use to be hard for English native speakers to pronounce sounds such as "r" or vowls in general, both in Latin or in other romance languages. You have the best pronunciation I have ever heard. PERFECT!
Bro even pronounces long wovels in English: "Hí, I'm Lúke, this is Polỳmathy, a channel about stúff Í think are néat. Í am réally intó spéaking Látin. Ás yóu may have séen mý óther videós about spéaking Látin, it's a lot of fun! Ánd Í híghly encóurage éveryóne who is interestéd tó spéak with óthers in Látin, there is a whóle búnch óf óportunitís fór thát. I recommend háving á lóok of thát videó which is línked in the descríption"😂
Professors at my university sometimes ''correct'' me when they think I pronounce Latin words the wrong way. After that, I usually politely say ''thank you'' and explain to them that I used the Classical pronunciation, the way Cicero did. :-)
Haha. Where do you live?
@@polyMATHY_Luke I live in Russia, Orenburg. :)
Professors here usually use a variety of sounds which sound kinda medieval or late Vulgar Latin to me (I am not a specialist on this topic but, for example, the word Cicero for them is Tsitsero and Computatio is Computatsio and Praetor is Prétor)
@@TypicalRussianGuy i think it's like ecclesiastical pronunciation
@@DC-ct2ie Ecclesiastical pronunciation is more modern than what they use, in my opinion. Well, we might call it ''ecclesiastical orthodox'' since they most likely also used this kind of Latin to teach Russian priests but most of them spoke very basic Latin anyways.
By the way, I've also noticed German choral singers use this kind of Latin.
The way they pronounce a lot of sounds in this variety of Latin is similar to the way you can hear it in Latin words in Russian, Polish, and German.
@@TypicalRussianGuy didn't the orthodox church use greek instead of latin?
Thats why Spanish and italian turn the suffix into at the end of words.
Not Romanian. we have "u" endings. And I think Portuguese has "u" endings too but they are written as "o".
@@prettymuchfitness3674 sardinian too has "u" at the end of the words.
@@Ariom76 Interesting. "u" club all the way!
@@Ariom76 scicilian has them as well
@@tonytomato100 Falas Latino ou English?
I am a native Romanian speaker, but have been living in the US for two decades. I'd like to think that I haven't lost my original language. My grandparents appreciate it... I'm very much impressed by your accent in your videos. My knowledge of Latin is limited, but I do understand it when I hear it. I also speak German and some Italian. I love languages and their transformances. Your videos trying to understand Romanian were just great. Regardless, I'm proud of being an offspring of Rome, I even have the senatus populs que romanus tattooed on my back. Keep this up. I like your stuff.
Mulțumesc mult!
@@polyMATHY_Luke I'm impressed that you learned the long version of mersi in our language. Some Romanians spell it merci like the original French. Pronunciation-wise, mersi makes more sense in Romanian for me. Languages are one of my passions, and I'd love to pick your brain if you have time.
Your passion for the language is very inspiring. Much respect.
that's one of the best impressions of an italian speaking english i've ever heard
I’m a native Spanish speaker and took Latin in high school with an Italian teacher. I would pronounce my vowels using a Spanish pronunciation. However, I came across Vox Latina, after high school, and started using Allen’s pronunciation of short vowels. I now find out I was probably better off with my original pronunciation. Great video.
Gave Luke a ride in my car yesterday (Uber) for about an hour. Super smart and personable guy- conversation was great and I’m definitely going to follow and chip away at Latin from his videos :) Thanks, Luke!
Congratulations!!!! Your accent is pretty accurate for our neolatin language. Big hug from Brazil, brother!
I've always suspected this too! When I learned Latin in college I thought it such a coincidence that Classical Latin should have vowels similar to English like short "i" and "a"...to the point that I didn't believe it so I just kept pronouncing those vowels as if I were speaking Spanish.
And referring to ~19:44, the re-Latinization of Spanish in medieval times is also what's responsible for names like Hernandez v. Fernandez. In going from Latin to Spanish, as you've mentioned, "f" sounds were dropped and just represented by the silent "h" but were reintroduced in medieval times in order to re-Latinize. You can also see it in other words like fierro and hierro which both can mean iron in Spanish (though they are used in different contexts) It's a really interesting phenomenon!
Vedere il video è stato un sollievo davvero: quando per prima cosa ho visto il titolo, ho pensato che si sarebbe dovuta applicare la fonetica del dialetto calabrese... Sarebbe stato un inferno, credimi.
Bellissimo contenuto e ti stimo molto per la conoscenza e l'impegno impiegati, grazie per insegnarmi, video dopo video!
I don't speak any Latin, but my native language is Spanish. I watched one of your videos where you had speakers of other Romance languages guessing different words from a description in Latin, and I could have sworn you were Italian or something. As you state in this video, most Anglophones tend to mess up the vowels when they speak Spanish, Italian, Latin, etc. Kinda like that scene from Inglorious Basterds, "graw-tzee-ay". I like your Furio impression too, spot on hahaha
hahaha yeah
How good it is to hear an intelligent person speaking in these dark times! Congratulations from Brazil!
As a Calabrese i thought "what the hell why didn't I know that?", but then I understood
The only thing that I would like to see here is, instead of reading a text in several dialects, rather as well speaking extemporaneously in those dialects, to see how sounds and words hit up against each other, blend, and otherwise create a flow that carefully reading text does not demonstrate!
And of course, this would be demonstrated in song, as you, as I believe, did this at the very end! Bravo!
OTHERWISE, a bang-up great explanation about reconstructed speech patterns in Latin!
What’s interesting about Sardinian, is that while it is the most unchanged from Vulgar Latin and the most conservative Romance language, back during the time of the Roman Empire the Latin spoken on Sardinia was a different dialect to the more standard form so it’s a conservative continuation of something that was actually quite different from standard Classical Latin
Sardinia was settled by bronze age farmers from what’s now turkey who spoke an ancient pre indo European language and the Latin they used in classical times had a large sub strate of vocabulary from their ancient pre indo European language which other forms of Latin don’t have
As a Spanish and Catalan native speaker I can understand about 80% of what Italians say and can communicate with them fairly well, even without having learned any Italian at all. I took Latín in highschool for 3 years and man, when I listen to you I can't help but wondering how accurate and accent free your pronunciation is. Your command of Latín and Italian is unbelievable.
Absolutely loved watching this! Thank you.
My knowledge of Latin is relatively basic - little more than the Cambridge Red Book. But knowing Japanese helped in the early stages. For pronunciation, definitely, both vowels and consonants. And the way the grammar is presented as well. I see you have studied Japanese, too. I actually teach high school Japanese, and one of the grammatical stumbling blocks is mastery of particles for students. I think I am in a minority of teachers who are willing to simply call it a case system, with a few minor changes to standard Latin cases. A pity such explicit grammar teaching has gone out gthe window in high school teaching, at least in Australia, excpet for the Latin classroom! Keep up the great work!
I'm glad you liked it! Thanks!
The presenter is very knowledgeable and this comes across very much, hence one places trust on his teaching without do doubt.
I love your videos, man. Also, since I'm a Spanish/Catalan speaker, i can (at least try to) pronounce all the words and phonological changes, proving none wrong. This was great.
I'm glad you enjoyed it! I also love Catalan! Spanish too.
your maccheroni english is spot on. Ho fatto tanta fatica a togliere un pochino il mio accento...
Your pronunciation, I believe, is similar to what I was taught in first-year Latin 50 years ago, a 5-vowel system, hard "c" etc. The one difference is our teacher used a flapped "r" throughout like many British English speakers; I don't recall her ever rolling "r". She did briefly discuss "Church Latin" as she called it. All that aside, I am greatly enjoying your videos!
Someone did a video on the Spanish ñ and how it was originally a shortcut of nn that was used by Spanish monks to save space on vellum. So anno became año. It might also give some clues as to how a nn was pronounced.
Now when it comes to Romance languages I prefer French (I pronounce it with a slight Norman accent). I know I’m biased as a good bit of my family came to the US from France (dad’s came from Normandy through England, and mom’s came from Alsace-Lorraine). I find it interesting that French and Italian share an estimated 80% vocabulary but are mutually unintelligible since French has a Gallic pronunciation.
I also want to point out I grew up in a town founded by Italian Protestants, Valdese, NC. I find that dialect continuum pretty interesting too (Catalan in the west through Provence in France to northern Italy).
Keep up the great work. I loved Latin back in high school and apparently scored the highest in the country on the level 1 national Latin exam.
Thanks! I appreciate the comment.
The way you pronounce Latin words and even Italian is very impressive.
As a Romanian I will also confirm that in school when we studied Latin we had only the same set of vowels . Our language also has only 5 vowels ( the o is pronounced rounder than the inverted "c" symbol)
As a side note, when we studied Latin during school we always pronounced the set of letters ce, ci like tche and tchi instead of ke or ki. For instace dulce both in Romanian and Latin we prounounced it dul"tche" not dul"ke" . I do remember our Latin teacher approved that pronounciation.
Hi, I am also Romanian and I am whatching and hearing different people (even an italian with a youtube channel in English) reading and speaking latin and it's not the way I studied and it doesn't sound ok to me.
In romanian we pronounce the groups of letters "ce", "ci", "ge", "gi" like italians do. Wouldn't it be logical that it was the same in Latin? This is also the way I learned in school. Also the italian guy is pronouncing like english speakers do, for instance he says Kikero not Cicero, Ka-e-sar not Ce-sar etc.
Wow, this video is incredible! So many things I had puzzled over regarding restored classical pronunciation explained so clearly! And what a treat to hear restored classical pronunciation next to rural pronunciations. Thank you for this.
Thanks so much, Joules!
34 catalans really hated their language being called "minor".
If so, then I apologize to them. 😊
I would never hit dislike, but I admit that it pulled some strings inside 😅
@@polyMATHY_Luke I once dared to tell to a catalan girl during her exchange program in Italy that from a philological point of view, catalan, Spanish (I even said "or castillan" not to offend her), Italian or any Italian dialects of any major Italian town had exactly the same dignity and level. That, for example, until the Republic of Venezia existed, "Veneziano" probably had the same status of "Language" instead of nowadays "Dialect". And I added that in the end, the difference btw them is more from a political stand. And I quoted a famous linguist (I don't remember him now) that went something like: "A Language is a dialect with an army&navy".
She was completely offended and kept saying that catalan was "different".
@@Chaiserzose I'm Catalan and can confirm that girl didn't know what she was talking about. Catalan is just another dialect of Vulgar Latin just like every other Romance language. It's not less or more than any other, it's at the same level. I don't know why people struggle so much with this concept.
The problem is that, in Spain, there are a rather big (or loud) amount of non-Catalans that defend that Catalan is a dialect of Spanish spoken by farmers, and they use this argument to try and lower its language status and hence stop it from being taught in schools. That is why Catalans are touchy about this subject.
Having said that, it's not strange that a lot of non-linguist Catalans don't quite understand the whole Vulgar Latin dialect business, they just know that Catalan is a language, so telling them is a dialect of any kind makes them jump.
@@Chaiserzose they learn "mottos" don't debate ideas. Soon, they considered themselves the cradle of european civilizarion... It is propaganda and nationalism...
Not all catalans are fanatics...
Grātiās tibi agō! This has bothered me for countless years, and I think I can put this to rest now. You are the first person to actually point me to some relatively recent scholarship on this quality/quantity short vowel issue. Before, my US colleagues would just wave Sidney Allen's _Vox Latina_ in my face, while my native Romance language speaking colleagues would laugh at my "Anglicized" pronunciation but couldn't provide any compelling academic evidence other than "it just sounds better." There is a book by Michele Loporcaro called _Vowel Length from Latin to_ _Romance_ , but I never got a satisfying answer out of it. In any case, I will immediately change my pronunciation to show quantitative and not qualitative vowel length. Euge!
This may be the Spanish Sangria talking but it’s almost intoxicatingly intriguing to hear how the Romance Languages play telephone across expanses and centuries. Absolutely wonderful!
Your observations are well placed, and I commend you for your diction. You have an excellent latin diction and more so the praise for being an anglo language native. It is not an easy thing to overcome. Bravo!
Grazie mille, Cabezza! 🥰
Complimenti! Sei bravissimo ed anche simpatico. È bello vedere quanto uno statunitense sia interessato alla nostra antica lingua.
mirko tosi grazie! E certo, per me il latino è tanto necessario quanto l’aria
@@polyMATHY_Luke scusami, lezione interessantissima, grazie!! By the way it is tanto necessario quanto l'aria.
@@imskint1 Grazie! l'ho corretto 😅
I really admire all your efforts to clarify the correct pronunciation of Latin which is nowadays somewhat neglected, especially here in Latin America. Greetings from Peru.
Gracias
As an italian (who studied latin and ancient greek at school) I am amazed of how vulgar latin sound familiar and easy to undesrtand for us italians.
Also, having a holyday house in Sardinia (I am from Lombardy instead) where I spend each summer vacation since dozens of years, I understand a few of sardinian, but actually I don't agree at all with those who say that sardinian is the romance language more similar to latin! Maybe some grammatical structures, not much.
It is likely that the languages still more similar in "sound" and cadence with latin are center italian dialects, those spoken between Florence and Neapolis.
We should also keep in mind that latin and southern celtic had the same roots, so it's known that Ceasar had to speak in greek for give his battle orders during the campaign against tha gauls, otherwise the gauls could understand them (gauls in cispadania also used the same latin alphabet for their writings, as attested in some stone inscriptions in Alessandria and Vercelli, Piedmont).
So I suspect that some places in the north of Italy (mainly in the mountains, where people has been more isolated and conservative) still use the same phonetics of ancient latin. For instance the "ladin language" spoken in some areas of eastern alps
Dubito molto della questione. Venendo dalla Valle d'Aosta e conoscendo un po' i dialetti anche di alcune valli del Piemonte ti dico che è molto più facile che avvengano mutamenti linguistici nelle valli isolate che non in pianura o in un'isola. Questo perché la mentalità della gente di montagna è molto chiusa, isolazionista e riservata. Questo fa sì che ogni piccolo comune parli un dialetto diversissimo dal vicino perché non ha nessun interesse a comunicare con lui (io ad Aosta faccio una fatica enorme a capire i dialetti di comuni a cinque o sei chilometri da me pur conoscendo bene il mio). In Valle d'Aosta in particolare (poi non conosco le valli delle Alpi orientali) i mutamenti linguistici sono numerosissimi e le sonorità diversissime da quelle del latino.
Loris Ducly il mio era solo un dubbio, pensavo alla persistenza ad esempio del ladino, pur circondato da popolazioni che parlano tedesco (basso bavarese) ed italiano. O del friulano (furlan) dopo secoli di dominazione austriaca ed influssi slavi. Ma in effetti può essere invece il contrario, come dici tu
@@lorenzor2555 Io purtroppo il ladino non lo conosco anche se mi piacerebbe molto. Io ti dico quel che so per esperienza del mio dialetto perché è così bello parlare di linguistica delle lingue regionali e confrontarsi assieme su questi temi spesso molto snobbati anche dalla comunità intellettuale!
Excellent pronunciation and good work to do this to be fair to everyone in this way to make it look good as well for the night of your family
I am wholly charmed! Having had 4 years of Latin in school, including pronunciation, but never an hour's training in speaking it.
I have never met or heard another American who could shed the English accent so well. Mr Ranieri, might you have learned Italian from childhood, perhaps, or are you just good? :-)
Haha you're too kind. I studied in Florence. My Italian needs work, to be sure.
Andrea Calabrese was a teacher of mine at Harvard! A stupendously well-rounded linguist in both synchronic and diachronic linguistics, especially phonology and syntax.
He is a lovely fellow! I envy your having studied with him.
@@polyMATHY_Luke Have you seen him recently?
I loved your Italian impression😂
Greetings from good old Aemilia!
Michele Vogliardi grazie! Un saluto a voi in Emilia-Romagna!
22:00 wow that laurel wreath on the Roman flag looked like it's on your head. AVE CAESAR! ✋😁
Thanks for the great video about Latin pronunciation. Eventually came to your chanel via Ecolinguist, where you used to talk in classical Latin with three different romance languages native speakers. That's one of my favourite one! Thank you for ressurecting my passion for Latin! Staying tuned for the new vids!
12:45 when I studied Latin in high school (Italy) I was taught to pronounce ae and oe as just {e} (phonetical pronunciation)
Certo! Stai descrivendo la pronuncia ecclesiastica ossia scolastica italiana del latino. Spiego queste differenze qui: ua-cam.com/video/zq3FJNibKHk/v-deo.html e qui: ua-cam.com/video/XeqTuPZv9as/v-deo.html Io però sto parlando della pronuncia restituta del periodo classico (1º secolo a.C.) 😊
As an Italian I still find the classical pronunciation hard to digest but i guess it's only bias . However I cringe whenever I see a V pronounced as U. I just can't!
Albert Мattei 😆 do you also cringe when you hear an Italian from Montella or Lazio who says “uòi” instead of “vuoi” or “uino” instead of “vino”? Or a Sardinian who says “fàchere” for “fare”? These sounds are all still part of Italy today. They aren’t *Tuscan* today, but they were *universally* Italian in the past.
Now, if you simply prefer Ecclesiastical pronunciation, I think that’s fine! These are merely conventions. I approve of that choice, as you can see here: m.ua-cam.com/video/XeqTuPZv9as/v-deo.html
@@polyMATHY_Luke cheers! Already saw the video it's great. Maybe it has to do with the fact i grew up with Spanish too and now speak fluent English and only speak latin for liturgical purposes (and let's be frank not having to change my native sounds to speak latin its just great) . However yes I have a certain discomfort with them too somehow... But i love southern dialects like Napolitan and Molisean
Gosh man, it is a joy to hear you speak about Latin and linguistics! Thank you for the passion and the work you put into sharing it
Wonderful video! We don't agree 100% on everything (I maintain that lingua -> lengua -> lingua was an entirely phonological process, and also Sicilian has something fairly similar to ɪ and ʊ xP) but I thoroughly enjoyed this! Hopefully soon I'll make a video demonstrating how to follow Calabrese's suggestions and also a more in depth discussion of the evidence for it! :D
Holy fuck I love this channel! I've been studying history for 8 Semesters now in Germany and I've long sinced passed the required Latin - you may or may not be surprised that the bar is very low and there are absolutely zero fucks given to pronunciation. I continue to learn for my own education, and this "Latin is pronounced just like we would pronounce it"-thing has ben irking me for sooo so long, especially given the fact that I am sorta aware that students around the world get told the same thing, be they learning in Italy, Spain, Britain, Germany, you name it. I can't do much in the way of linguistics and phonetic script, and I figured some time ago the only way to sorta learn the pronounciation without studying linguistics was to find someone to do it for me that I could listen to - this has given me so much, thanks! :)
I came to this video to get better at Latin and was totally gobsmacked to hear examples from Japanese (with great pronunciation!) halfway through!
I have something to add, though: while -oi and -ē (and -ae and -ē) exist at the same time with no intermediate step in Modern Japanese, the one at 12:58 (-au to -ō) also occurred in certain words in Japanese, around the 1500s and 1600s AD, and there *was* an intermediate *-ɔ:* step before it evolved further to today's -ō. (This is why Chinese words which end in -ang in most Chinese languages, end in -ō in Japanese now.) It was remarked upon by Portuguese Christians documenting the language at the time; they transcribed [ɔ:] as ǒ (with a haček) and wrote ô (with a circumflex) for "today's" -ō, and the distinction was perfectly consistent with what the original sounds were in Chinese, plus other native Japanese words that had -au-.
Most of the Okinawan languages also have the Vulgar Latin ae and ai > ē shift, and some of them even have initial [w] to [b], which makes us wonder if there was a Latin/Spanish-like intermediate [β] at some point. And most of them have k- to č- before -i and -e just like Latin.
I highly recommend looking into the Christian documents from people like João Rodrigues for more on how Japanese was pronounced 400 years ago. There are lots of really interesting parallels with more "familiar" Romance language developments.
And you've got a new subscriber!
Make sure to subscribe to Luke's latin channel Scorpio Martianus if you haven't! :-)
@@Philoglossos Just subscribed to both!
Wow, my grandfather moved from Italy to the United States and your example of how Italians speak English was spot on. For the most part it actually doesn’t interfere with understanding what he’s saying but it does sound kinda cool.
17:30
Funny thing is eventhough the spanish say "lengua", portuguese and galicians write and pronounce it as the italians like "lingua"
Thanks for keeping Latin alive:) Greetings from provinciae germaniae superioris
Salvē du auch!
I hate you! ;) Your videos make me spend more and more time in those things, learning Latin, history of the languages etc. Well, I love you in the end for this
I LOVE Him and I'm just mad that I don't get more of him.
"I hate you"
"I LOVE Him"
Something sounds familiar...
@@saxasalt quar'id faciam fortasse requiris?
This is so incredibly interesting to me. I am Andrea, I am from Rome and I (as well as the majority of us) have studied Latin in school. If I was taught it as you teach it I would’ve loved it a lot more back then, and wouldn’t have to develop a personal taste for it with time. I wish they could update the way they teach it in order to be more modern and appealing to young minds. Anyways: I agree with you that short i and u as I see them reconstructed sound more Germanic than Latin, and I’ve always found that who uses them immediately gives their Latin a “foreign” accent, so to speak. I was taught the Italian pronunciation of course but nowadays i use a mixture of Italian and Classical; yet honestly in any pronunciation you want to use, saying i and u in that way is weird and difficult for any Romance speaker, it sounds fabricated. Gratias, i absolutely love your channels!
Well,... Any, any not... There are the frenchs... Ha ha
Bilbo hob “i” and “u” in French are not pronounced /ɪ/ and /ʊ/; but /i/ and /y/, while “ou” is /u/; not /ʊ/
Latin as a world auxiliary language? Esperanto has lots of good qualities but Latin has already been the international language of a bunch of cultures in the past. Thanks @polyMATHY for all your videos. Someday I would love to speak Latin (and English, and Italian...) like you. #admiration #gratitude #respect
Many thanks, Professor!
You should definitely have more subscribers, your videos are GOLD
You're so kind! 😃 Well, with your generous comment, I'll get there.
I think this is the best video commentary on Latin pronunciation I've watched 😊 Do continue your educational work
That's very kind of you! :) Thanks so much for watching. Spread the word!
Gosh, you're great at this! I studied Latin and ancient Greek and never get to know this material. Thank you!
Thanks for watching, Marta! 😃
When did the "c" pronunciation of the latin changed from the "k" sound you use (at Lucius for example) to the actual italian c sound? And how does the sound changed to the c that spanish and portuguese use?
Great question! I answer it here ua-cam.com/video/XeqTuPZv9as/v-deo.html
polýMATHY im convinced there is a no question, regarding languages, that u can’t answer. Genius
Hi! Portuguese here. About what you said about the final sound L in Brazil becoming U there. The same happens in Portugal in a very small region: Caminha and its surroundings. It’s part of Viana do Castelo district. FYI. Great video! Salue!
This relatinisation you talk about around 20:00 is strong in French and even permeates to English. Fragile/frêle (fragile/frail), hautain/altier (haughty), aile/aisselle (wing/armpit) from latin axilla, machoir/maxillaire, bouche/buccale, etc.
I found your comment on the Italian word "lingua" very interesting. I was born and raised not far from Cicero's birthplace and in our very rustic local language we say "lengua". I wasn't aware where that sound comes from, thank you Luke, you made my day!
Fascinating! As a Covid distraction, I've recently started to revisit the Latin that I learned in my British Grammar School and have mostly forgotten in the subsequent 50 decades. The first thing I found was that someone moved the cases around in declensions, which was confusing to those of us who chanted these in class. But more confusing yet were the accent marks on the vowels. I swear I have no memory of these ever being taught.
In Latin classes we were taught what I would call British academic classical Latin pronunciation and I remember the good-natured disputes between the Latin department and the Music department on how to pronounce the Christmas carols we learned in Latin. For myself, I'm content to read and understand and don't really need to learn to speak Latin. But fascinated by the explanation of the development of the Latin languages. Thank you.
Thanks for commenting!
Bravo Luke you’ve convince me i love you channel 👍🏻👏👏
You are right!
In Mexico some people say medecina instead of medicina e.g. with no intermediate forms.
@Luiz Felipe Ay que herror!
Many, many thanks for your excellent work. Greetings from Poland ✌️
Cześć! Thanks so much! Dziękuję bardzo. ♥️ 🇵🇱
13:09 I applaud your usage of the phrase "quantum leap"! It actually makes sense in this context, unlike how it's generally used.
Thanks! 😃
La tua imitazione della pronuncia italiana dell'inglese è quasi perfetta... 😂 Grazie ai tuoi video mi sono resa conto che capisco il latino meglio di quanto pensassi ai tempi della scuola e mi incuriosisce anche molto di più... sarà perché acquisisce vita quando è parlato rispetto a quando è scritto? Bravo, complimenti 👏👏
Romanian has retained “au” and “al” in many of its words using the open A and U pronunciation
Aur (gold)
Altul/ Alta (another M/ another F)
Taur (bull/ Taurus)
A video about the different kinds of Latin pronunciations other than Classical and Ecclesiastical would be super interesting!
If in my school, years and years ago, they had taught me latin with such passion and if they had taught me to speak latin and not only how to translate that text or that other text, today I would speak latin cum absoluta voluptas (and I am pretty sure I wrote it wrong XD). I think I'm ready to start studying latin seriously. Thanks a lot for that from a new fan from Sardinia :)
Eja! Grazie mille. 😃
Just like how "our" is often pronounced "are"! Love it
5 vowels: This sounds great to me! It takes the guess out of figuring which kind a vowels are which.
I loved the Easter egg in the end. It’s a master piece film.
A lot of the vulgar Latin now shows me how early French started to emerge and also how Latin and Greek are more connected than we tend to think. A whole new perspective for me!
Latin and Greek aren't closely related. There are quite a few Greek loanwords and two loaned letters (Y and Z) to accommodate those loanwords. In fact, the letter Y was (and still is in modern Italian) called I Graeca ("Greek I"). But as far as language families, phonology, grammar, alphabet, etc., they aren't close.
Grazie a te.. è cosi interessante seguire una persona che diffonde cultura che è patrimonio di tutta l'umanità....cosa preziosa ai tempi quotidiani....e non riesco a capire tutto in inglese ma mi sforzo di seguire meglio possibile.....👍🙏
I also object to the short "e" as taught in the anglo system. For example, I often hear "amare" pronounced "amaruh. Can't be right.
Heh, you are correct.
Yeah, that's usually from students who can't roll the letter R. To fix that, I tell people to "grrr" very loudly *and* make their tongue touch the roof of the mouth. The grr forces the tongue down, but concentrating on forcing it to stay up makes that trilling second nature. Discovered that from one ancient Roman grammarian who described the R sound as beating your tongue against the top of the mouth to sound like a dog.
Great video. I love that you talk about phonotactics. Ever since I was 8 and had my first English lesson in school, I've known that Danes have trouble pronouncing certain sounds, and the Latin V is one of the really hard ones. It drives me nuts that I can't get it right.
Thanks 😊 No worries! We all have an accent. These things take practice
12:00 The monophthongization of /ai/, /ae/ and /oi/ into /ee/ is traditionally seen as dialectal/rural (specifically eastern/northeastern) and low-class, but it has become popular as slang... to the point where you can hear things like “sugee!” in Western Japan, where this sound-change has not occurred.
(That said, the monophthongization of /au/ and /ou/ into /oo/ is enshrined in both the spelling and pronunciation of the standard language, except along morphological boundaries)
the /au/ one is so standard that people don't even know about it (me included)
I only learned about it when I was studying Japanese kanji phonology. It merges the Chinese bilabial stop coda into a long vowel.
法 *papu -> (fafu) -> hahu -> hau -> hou -> hoo
It's one of two sources of kanji onyomi long vowels in the cases where the Chinese wasn't a diphthong (the other being the velar nasal "ng" coda).
Greetings ftom Finland. I just discovered you here. Interesting videos - thank you! This one just answered a looong list of questions that I have accumulated over the years regarding "What the heck happened with all those changes from Latin to modern Romance languages. A lot to take in, so I will now REwatch...
Thanks so much! This video has more on the subject: ua-cam.com/video/XeqTuPZv9as/v-deo.html
Hi, italian high-school lyceum alumni with 5 years of struggle in latin traduction here (infamously known for translating "Apud Ianiculum forte ventum erat" to "There was strong wind at Iianicolo", triggering my professor badly). Based on what I was taught, the accent (vowel stress or what's-its-name) of the word falls within the third-last syllable of the word in the vast majority or the one before the last in case of short words for spoken language.
For instance, when you have to say "multae" it's similar to "mùlte" (like tickets in italian, multe), and so on: Mùlte lìngue in mùndo sùnt.
i just discovered your channel. You're amazing, man. I envy your language skills and your capacity of comunicate ideas!
15:43 - Coronation of the new Caesar, Lucius Ranierius Augustus LOL
hahahah
You sir, have inspired me to take up a Latin course. I haven't learnt Latin in about 20years but I'm excited to go back to it now!
Diário da quarentena. São 2 da madrugada aqui no Brasil (or Brasiu, as we say hehe) e estou aprendendo a mudança do latim mesmo sem saber a língua. Great!
Complimenti Lucio, hai una cultura linguista enorme.