Literally 20 years later, and people are having this EXACT same debate, making these exact same points. I agree with Joel. The joke is on whomever engages in the "debate".
This episode first aired on June 22, 1991. System 7 came out on May 13 of that year, so this episode was probably taped just before 7 went live. It was a highly anticipated (and highly delayed) update to the System Software (it wouldn't be called "Mac OS" until version 7.5.1), which got rid of the single-tasking Finder, and required a hard drive and at least 1 MB of RAM. Mac users, especially those using Mac Plus machines, were up in arms about 7 being "bloated". RAM was VERY expensive then.
I came across an invoice that was mixed in with a variety of other retro mac stuff I got years ago. It was dated 1989 and was for a RAM upgrade to a Mac SE. The previous owner was going from 1 megabyte (stock) to 4 megabytes (max). Just one stick of RAM cost $99. So, yeah, memory was quite expensive back then.
@@minty_Joe When I first got into building and repairing computers in 1992, RAM was floating around $70-$80 per megabyte. It wasn't until Windows 95 was released that RAM prices began to fall, thanks to the economy of scale; users were forced to upgrade to at least 8MB to have a usable computer (I tried installing Win95 on a 386 with 4MB of RAM, and it took twenty minutes to boot. I'm not even exaggerating).
@@ordinaryk Yep. Ahh, the bad ol' days of computing. The fun of trying to soup up the machine for speed and capacity, essentially "competing with the Jones's", as they say. And after you've sunk too much money into that 386 machine, you find out that it is quickly too obsolete to do anything useful. Reminds me of Matthew Inman's (aka TheOatmeal.com) take on owning or buying an Apple product. theoatmeal.com/comics/apple
this is some classic joel right here. him popping up and being super close to the camera is so funny. what a show. totally excellent in all of its forms and cast.
I have loved this skit since it first aired in the early 1990s. It tickles me that I still see this shared on (for example) discussions about Auto1111 vs ComfyUI.
Gillian Quigley (sorry if this txt is messed up, youtube wont let my text format right on IE and FF wont let me post) The name was sold so many time over such a short time I think one of the last buyers was a computer shop chain called gateway but it went bankrupt I think I remember something about some fans buying a part but not too sure (omg if formatted okay lol)
I'm trying to remember but I think this is reflective of the actors Trace and Kevin who both had their preferences. In the book it mentions that Kevin begged for Macs in the office.
That's what's so great about it, most computer references in pop culture are horribly inaccurate...nowhere else on TV will you hear "Just edit the autoexec.bat and stick in a memory manager."
I remember how slipshod System 7 was, sad really. But the Amiga, damn, I'm a Unix newbie, but that was the closest thing to a Unix OS I could actually use.
I love this clip, but having used Amiga's since almost day one - not entirely sure what a Fat Agnus Drive is ;) (on a side note Fat Agnus is the version of Agnus that could see/use 1 megabyte of vram instead of 512k)
i liked joel...i never notist how pretty his eyes were...oh i remember the christmas special with mike...it show gypsy give mike a sweater and she said it took her a wile..it said JO-IKE (joel mike) lol
I think it kinda works...Servo's smarts are mainly highbrow ones, far from the Cheeto-stained, Wolfenstein-playing hacker stereotype. He appreciates aesthetics.
My next computer is going to be an HP.. same family as Compaq. But I use an Apple at work. I can use both platforms. I am also entertained with PC and MAC fanatics. As Joel pointed out it's fun having fun with their hopeless debates.
Having used both OSes, both are mostly straightforward in how the basic functions perform, and anyone could quickly figure out how to operate them both with some experience and time. Both have DOS functions, and both have features that I like and dislike. For example, I like Windows' task manager, but I also like OSX's simple-to navigate GUI. I have also become more organized with OSX, and I found myself organizing files with folders more often than I did with Windows. Windows was far more compatible with most of my files though, since OSX cannot, by default, execute .exe files.
After all these years, the first thing I think of when something annoys me about one of my apple devices, is the winky little clown and his file cabinet.
People are saying replace Amiga with Linux - I’d say replace MS-DOS with Linux, then it’s truly 21st Century. From there, I’d replace the Amiga with Chromebooks and ChromeOS
Windows became more popular the more MS made it look like a Mac. Mac Trash Can = Windows Recycle Bin Mac "Hard Disk" = Windows "My Computer" Early Macs needed no keyboard - Early PCs needed no mouse. I lived Mac from a 512K up to a PowerPC before we had to go to Win95 for school. Go to "Start" to shutdown the computer - how intuitive!
However, nowadays, most people who use Windows, does so because the machines are objectively more powerful for less money. That is why the media industry is moving over to Windows again for both visual and audible editing. CGI, video editing, even music and sound mixing and editing.
Lol, yeah, that "start" button... I remember when we just got W95 on the university computers. We were nerding out in the computer room, as we were wont to do, and in walks this other student who had an actual paper to write. Picks the PC in front of us. Apparently he'd been given some sort of instruction sheet, 'coz he produced a piece of paper and after some short investigation of said paper, he proceeds to press the power button. The computer boots into Windows, but for some reason he doesn't sit down and get to work. Instead, he looks at his piece of paper again, then at the computer. Piece of paper... Computer... He checks the sides of the case as well. And we're sitting there, getting mildly curious as to what the hell he's looking for. Finally he turns around, and with a puzzled look on his face asks "where the hell is the start button on this thing?" We nearly pissed ourselves! :')
@Tanyableu They get fewer viruses because they have a much smaller percentage of the OS field. Therefore virus writers see Windows at nearly 90% of the OS field and write much more viruses for Windows.
What PC users who they are is not necessarily that everyone loves Windows or Microsoft itself, but we really hate with a fiery passion Mac and other Apple products (excluding the ipod). When can we have a compromise?
@AutumnDevi At least those carrying case Mac minis weren't still around when you went in. I remember SO MANY Geek Squad guys trying to sell those to computer literate girls and getting their asses handed to them.
Joel's stoner-like manerisms are just so funny. I like the fact that the show isn't all that serious, you know, or well made? Mike's good, don't get me wrong.
@MST3K1986 Yeah now its expanded to wars between Microsoft and Google and the three front conflict between Blackberry, Iphone and Droid. These user interface wars just keep going on and growing
Lol, I love how 9 years later parts of your comment are still as relevant today as the day you wrote them, while others fall more into the "Who's this Atari you speak of?" territory... ;)
so was that before or after apple nearly went bankrupt? because i remember the iMac being incredibly popular and aesthetically pleasing when it was first introduced.
This was 1991. The 1990s were kind of a rough time for Apple - they put Mac through its first architecture change, got beat down for a while by Windows' growing popularity, made a confusingly large number of different beige powermac models... And then, as you say, had a big hit with the iMac in 1998. To me the most amazing part of the whole story is that Apple hung on to that #2 spot (often, a DISTANT #2 spot compared to the PC platform as a whole) and emerged intact, and then rolled out a series of hits in the late 1990s and early 2000s.
Crow shouls have joked about the Pinwheel, that might have steamed Servo's brocoli. But in all seriousness, my house has both systems, mine being the Mac and my brother's being a PC, and both get the job done. Sure the PC is more complicated, but it pays to be smart in that field. Macs are easier, but alas, I get a brick thrown at my window every week. I'm a Mac, and I have a PC too. :3
@DrKaiju2000 I know, right? People hate on IE, but it just works for me... for the most part. Honestly, I haven't had as much trouble with Firefox (to be fair, though, that's probably only because I hardly use it), but I just can't get used to that interface.
Literally 20 years later, and people are having this EXACT same debate, making these exact same points.
I agree with Joel. The joke is on whomever engages in the "debate".
34 years later - still the same
Best part of this skit is twenty plus years later and nothing's changed.
Expect Amiga is now Linux
@@karseniberra No way, kid. Us diehard Amiga users are still around, and so are our machines.
I may have not been born in the times of the Commodore Amiga, but that doesn't stop me from using WinUAE, the Amiga emulator.
Onleee Amigaaaaa!!!!!!
I dunno I preferred Macs 20 years ago, now I wouldn't wipe my nose on one.
This episode first aired on June 22, 1991. System 7 came out on May 13 of that year, so this episode was probably taped just before 7 went live. It was a highly anticipated (and highly delayed) update to the System Software (it wouldn't be called "Mac OS" until version 7.5.1), which got rid of the single-tasking Finder, and required a hard drive and at least 1 MB of RAM. Mac users, especially those using Mac Plus machines, were up in arms about 7 being "bloated". RAM was VERY expensive then.
Thanks for the history lesson! I remember around that time wanting to play Dark Castle but it was Mac only.
I came across an invoice that was mixed in with a variety of other retro mac stuff I got years ago. It was dated 1989 and was for a RAM upgrade to a Mac SE. The previous owner was going from 1 megabyte (stock) to 4 megabytes (max). Just one stick of RAM cost $99. So, yeah, memory was quite expensive back then.
@@minty_Joe When I first got into building and repairing computers in 1992, RAM was floating around $70-$80 per megabyte. It wasn't until Windows 95 was released that RAM prices began to fall, thanks to the economy of scale; users were forced to upgrade to at least 8MB to have a usable computer (I tried installing Win95 on a 386 with 4MB of RAM, and it took twenty minutes to boot. I'm not even exaggerating).
@@ordinaryk Yep. Ahh, the bad ol' days of computing. The fun of trying to soup up the machine for speed and capacity, essentially "competing with the Jones's", as they say. And after you've sunk too much money into that 386 machine, you find out that it is quickly too obsolete to do anything useful. Reminds me of Matthew Inman's (aka TheOatmeal.com) take on owning or buying an Apple product. theoatmeal.com/comics/apple
so that was when Amiga users were already enjoying realtime multitasking for six years :D
Even after all these years this makes me smile.
I know how you feel, I wish I was born during the 80's. Instead the 2000's
Joel wins this debate
macs have long loading, and pc's have malware.
damn, the comedy aside, it's fascinating to see people debating what used to be state-of-the-art technology
"Hey, has anybody seen the mouse to my Amiga?" LOLOLOLOLOL.
just replace the Amiga reference with Linux and it's just as relevant
or BSD (Berkeley)
Keep the Amiga flying, Sabrina! XD
Ha ha! I was thinking the same thing. Only Amiga! :p
Sabrina ftw!
This is the nerdiest show ever made.
I thought it was "The Big Bang Theory". 🤓
@@luisreyes1963
The Big Bang Theory pretends to be for nerds when in reality it’s just mocking them.
And Steve Allen already thought of it!
this is some classic joel right here. him popping up and being super close to the camera is so funny. what a show. totally excellent in all of its forms and cast.
I love Tom Servo's dry sarcasm.....
I used to use the part about the Amiga mouse as the startup sound for my Amiga 500....
I have loved this skit since it first aired in the early 1990s. It tickles me that I still see this shared on (for example) discussions about Auto1111 vs ComfyUI.
This is great seeing this in 2021! I miss this show!
I wish I could talk to Crow when i call Tech. Support.
Why is it that I always find myself agreeing with Crow?
Hmm, now you mention it...
Love how Servo’s arms are concealed behind his computer, to avoid the problem of having the puppet look like he’s typing.
Put Tom Servo in an Apple ad already!
Replace Amiga with Linux and you've got the modern take on this subject.
Ah, back when computers were a nerd preserve.
I was just thinking amiga, then he said it lol
Whatever did happen to the Amiga?
Gillian Quigley (sorry if this txt is messed up, youtube wont let my text format right on IE and FF wont let me post) The name was sold so many time over such a short time
I think one of the last buyers was a computer shop chain called gateway but it went bankrupt I think
I remember something about some fans buying a part but not too sure
(omg if formatted okay lol)
I'm trying to remember but I think this is reflective of the actors Trace and Kevin who both had their preferences.
In the book it mentions that Kevin begged for Macs in the office.
That's what's so great about it, most computer references in pop culture are horribly inaccurate...nowhere else on TV will you hear "Just edit the autoexec.bat and stick in a memory manager."
I guess the only TV show and character to come close was Ringo from "The Lone Gunmen."
What would inputting that command actually do? Out of layperson technologically-inept curiosity
And he's trying to use WordPerfect 5.1, which really dates this. Back in the days of Windows 3.1 (though WP51 came a bit before)
he gets internet in space?
who said they are on the internet?
I remember how slipshod System 7 was, sad really. But the Amiga, damn, I'm a Unix newbie, but that was the closest thing to a Unix OS I could actually use.
:50-:57 - Thank you, Joel! Geez, I hardly hear anyone ever acknowledge personal preference.
I love this clip, but having used Amiga's since almost day one - not entirely sure what a Fat Agnus Drive is ;) (on a side note Fat Agnus is the version of Agnus that could see/use 1 megabyte of vram instead of 512k)
i liked joel...i never notist how pretty his eyes were...oh i remember the christmas special with mike...it show gypsy give mike a sweater and she said it took her a wile..it said JO-IKE
(joel mike) lol
Heehee, Joel said "Interfrace". :P
So. What this is telling me is that Servo is a Hipster.
Well let's face it he would be.
Joel makes this sketch. So great.
Believe it or not, there are still people who swear by Amiga to this day. I have quite a bit of respect for it myself.
Somewhere in the timeline where Commodore won the computer wars, we're on 2040 graphics in 2020.
that's a very good point.
can also be Used for many debates including Marvel Vs DC.
Be rather hard for a robot to convince a server that he's not a robot.
I think it kinda works...Servo's smarts are mainly highbrow ones, far from the Cheeto-stained, Wolfenstein-playing hacker stereotype. He appreciates aesthetics.
The really sad thing is that these conversations continue to the present day.
:shakes head in disgust:
That's why he has little Slinkies for arms; his hands stretch.
My next computer is going to be an HP.. same family as Compaq. But I use an Apple at work. I can use both platforms. I am also entertained with PC and MAC fanatics. As Joel pointed out it's fun having fun with their hopeless debates.
Has anybody found the floppy disk drive for my TRS-80?
Gah! Joel's close-up is both great and somewhat scary.
Having used both OSes, both are mostly straightforward in how the basic functions perform, and anyone could quickly figure out how to operate them both with some experience and time. Both have DOS functions, and both have features that I like and dislike. For example, I like Windows' task manager, but I also like OSX's simple-to navigate GUI. I have also become more organized with OSX, and I found myself organizing files with folders more often than I did with Windows. Windows was far more compatible with most of my files though, since OSX cannot, by default, execute .exe files.
Absolutely hilarious, even though it's outdated as hell.
So you’ve never had this kind of frustration trying to understand something on your computer?
@@kylestubbs8867 No but I've had problems with women women women women women women women.
After all these years, the first thing I think of when something annoys me about one of my apple devices, is the winky little clown and his file cabinet.
Instead of arguing over which is better can we take the time to appreciate whatever's wrong with Joel's head in this bit.
People are saying replace Amiga with Linux - I’d say replace MS-DOS with Linux, then it’s truly 21st Century.
From there, I’d replace the Amiga with Chromebooks and ChromeOS
Actually the "3000" in the title is arbitrary. The show takes place "in the not-too-distant future: next Sunday, A.D."
God how I miss the old Commodore Vic-20 days!
Joel is soooo incredibly hot flashing his blue eyes at Cambot... woah. I wish he'd do that more often!!
Way, way, waaaaaay before the Mac vs PC commercials of this year...
Windows became more popular the more MS made it look like a Mac.
Mac Trash Can = Windows Recycle Bin
Mac "Hard Disk" = Windows "My Computer"
Early Macs needed no keyboard - Early PCs needed no mouse.
I lived Mac from a 512K up to a PowerPC before we had to go to Win95 for school.
Go to "Start" to shutdown the computer - how intuitive!
However, nowadays, most people who use Windows, does so because the machines are objectively more powerful for less money. That is why the media industry is moving over to Windows again for both visual and audible editing. CGI, video editing, even music and sound mixing and editing.
Mac price = PC price + a mortgage payment
Lol, yeah, that "start" button... I remember when we just got W95 on the university computers. We were nerding out in the computer room, as we were wont to do, and in walks this other student who had an actual paper to write. Picks the PC in front of us. Apparently he'd been given some sort of instruction sheet, 'coz he produced a piece of paper and after some short investigation of said paper, he proceeds to press the power button. The computer boots into Windows, but for some reason he doesn't sit down and get to work. Instead, he looks at his piece of paper again, then at the computer. Piece of paper... Computer... He checks the sides of the case as well. And we're sitting there, getting mildly curious as to what the hell he's looking for. Finally he turns around, and with a puzzled look on his face asks "where the hell is the start button on this thing?" We nearly pissed ourselves! :')
Gaming: PC
Media Center: Lubuntu
Still relevant 30 years later
that's a lot of truth!
well played sir, you win.
Gad I miss that show...lost my old vids. :(
I'll just stick with my trusty typewriter
Especially amusing because that's how fanfiction writers refer to the slash pairing Joel/Mike.
Nearly 20 years later, and nothing has changed in the PC/Mac battles.
Though I guess Linux is the present day Amiga? :\
LOL, Joel being all up on the camera cracks me up for some reason.
Joel's face is so funny when he's right in front of Cambot. He nods his head so much.
watching this on my computer running arch btw...relating to joel here.
Joel is ALWAYS RIGHT.
Joel's right. A computer is great based on the user's personal preference.
Commodore forever.
TI99-4A
@Tanyableu They get fewer viruses because they have a much smaller percentage of the OS field. Therefore virus writers see Windows at nearly 90% of the OS field and write much more viruses for Windows.
What PC users who they are is not necessarily that everyone loves Windows or Microsoft itself, but we really hate with a fiery passion Mac and other Apple products (excluding the ipod). When can we have a compromise?
Windows Eleven? Don't get me started...
How sad that I can actually follow this discussion...*sigh*
@AutumnDevi At least those carrying case Mac minis weren't still around when you went in. I remember SO MANY Geek Squad guys trying to sell those to computer literate girls and getting their asses handed to them.
anyone else notice Crows arm was already off its hinges at 1:36 ?
Surprised they didn't do another take.
Cade Thumann guess it wasn't big enough X3
I don't have an arm!
According to the Wiki, Joel actually pulls it off the desk and chucks it away later in the invention exchange.
Joel's stoner-like manerisms are just so funny. I like the fact that the show isn't all that serious, you know, or well made? Mike's good, don't get me wrong.
they're all here on youtube. now worries :3
Agreed - it's really whatever works best for anyone. I'm a Mac, but if PCs work or others, that's great.
p.s.
the amiga 1000 was way ahead of its time
Correct on both counts.
@MST3K1986 Yeah now its expanded to wars between Microsoft and Google and the three front conflict between Blackberry, Iphone and Droid. These user interface wars just keep going on and growing
Lol, I love how 9 years later parts of your comment are still as relevant today as the day you wrote them, while others fall more into the "Who's this Atari you speak of?" territory... ;)
so was that before or after apple nearly went bankrupt? because i remember the iMac being incredibly popular and aesthetically pleasing when it was first introduced.
This was 1991. The 1990s were kind of a rough time for Apple - they put Mac through its first architecture change, got beat down for a while by Windows' growing popularity, made a confusingly large number of different beige powermac models... And then, as you say, had a big hit with the iMac in 1998. To me the most amazing part of the whole story is that Apple hung on to that #2 spot (often, a DISTANT #2 spot compared to the PC platform as a whole) and emerged intact, and then rolled out a series of hits in the late 1990s and early 2000s.
Servo's frustration in this video reminds me of my frustrations with Linux.
Tom: I'm a Mac.
Crow: And I'm a PC.
I'd pay to watch that commercial! ^_^
It's true that both are great operating systems.
However, for a comparable PC, you have to pay like, 1/3 of a Mac's price.
@echosmyron
Whoops, I double checked, and this episode is actually from 1991. Windows 3.1 didn't come out until a year later. :P
If you think DOS is bad, try writing ACLs on the Cisco CLI.
It's still true!
I only just now made out what Servo says at 1:28
"I think they use cow chips instead of RAM chips in this thing... piece of garbage." XD
Cow chips? Never heard that one before.
Kyle Stubbs It’s less common than cow pies, but it’s another slang term for cow poop.
@echosmyron oh you guys are hurtin' me wit yer jargon. Too good.
I don't know, I thought mike was quite adorable.
Crow shouls have joked about the Pinwheel, that might have steamed Servo's brocoli.
But in all seriousness, my house has both systems, mine being the Mac and my brother's being a PC, and both get the job done. Sure the PC is more complicated, but it pays to be smart in that field. Macs are easier, but alas, I get a brick thrown at my window every week.
I'm a Mac, and I have a PC too. :3
What was Servo making spreadsheets for/about?
@DrKaiju2000 I know, right?
People hate on IE, but it just works for me... for the most part.
Honestly, I haven't had as much trouble with Firefox (to be fair, though, that's probably only because I hardly use it), but I just can't get used to that interface.
This would have been a couple of years before.
God Bless Servo. MACS RULE! and I remember OS 7 being pretty good.
@SonicTheJackrabbit He may have, but WordPerfect didn't release a Windows version until after this episode aired.
Never mind, it was playing in a different window when I unmuted, lol.
"Fat Agnus drive.." I am a nerd for knowing what the 'Fat Agnus' was :*)
What is it?
I think because he's not wearing his glasses and his eyes are wide open.
They're all...out of focus.
Hiliarous episode good riffing and great host segments 🤣
#304, Gamera Vs. Barugon
I like both, but it mostly depends on the computers operating system
crap, I was all set to watch the invention exchange!