since this video is pretty out of my usual comfort zone, i'd appreciate if you could tell me if you thought the video was good, or if you perhaps have criticism on the organization of the story. the feedback would be helpful. thanks :) edit: ah good call, some of the text was hard to read on phones
This map feels so absurd, collect beers and give them to the aliens, and whenever you get in the beam, "the line™" plays. Why? God knows. Is it funny though? Yes.
@@fisherisawesome9547 It would give you some cover as you go into water tbh, because most of the time swiming in tf2 is a hinderance (can't jump, exposed to anyone above, also screw up pyros)
I still remember when this map came out back in the Invasion update. That whole update was filled with crazy and experimental things on so many of the maps that they introduced. It's a shame that the update was a little bit of a dumpster fire behind the scenes, as even though I wasn't too big of a fan of many of the ideas that these maps were playing around with I still really enjoyed the fact that valve were willing to go crazy with experimenting for tf2. I miss this time of tf2 when just about anything could be thrown at the wall.
"Money degrades all the gods of man and turns them into commodities." In the past, TF2 made money, yes, but it wasn't necessarily a cash cow that spat out Benjamins. Experimentation, community, creation and so much more were core to Valve's game design ethos. Now, the cash cow has been drained dry, all of the old ethea _(ethos, plural)_ that made Valve games great are long forgotten, and cash-cow hamburgers are on the menu. _The cow represents both the money-making potential but also the subjective appeal that drew in people of all kinds. I'm bad at metaphors._
I KNEW IT WAS JUST HEADHUNTER! That being said I'm really glad it's in the game, and I want to see more player destruction maps added. It essentially makes "Team deathmatch" an actual gamemode for those who treat certain maps as such already (ex Hightower).
@@Splarkszter there's always localization bs happening in between lazy picks for money making new crates. Until the crates stop being unlocked in enough volume... then it'll either be fixed or discarded.
@@ChronoSquare we are on 2022, VALVe will never touch tf2 even if they want. Because how the game is, the jokes it has and the people are ussually very sensitive about things for the wrong reasons this days. The less exposure it has the better for them(is only what they think).
I can't imagine the excitement Egan got when he merely got a response from Valve themselves, let alone being able to put his own gamemode and map into the official game. I would be absolutely giddy and ecstatic!
he actually got stressed more than anything because now he had to work up to professional mapping standards on what was a side project. to this day he kinda regrets it getting popular source: I'm a close friend
@@windowsxseven it definitely shows the love put into it, its definitely got more details than other maps, like its more dynamic geometry to make it look less blocky, why does he regret it getting popular if you dont mind me asking?
such a double edged sword that update was. On one hand, it showed how Valve was capable of actually working with the community. On the other hand, it showed how incapable the community was with working together when in the wrong hands.
@@AyCe Some members of the team, seeking valor, argued over how much each of them were worth. In their in-fighting, at least one of them leaked the update prematurely. Valve hasn't trusted the community on an update ever since.
I basically started playing TF2 when the Invasion update dropped. I had no idea what I was doing or what was going on but I loved the retro space aesthetic and I loved playing the Invasion maps. Watergate was a lot to take in as someone completely new to the game but it was such a blast when you had a team that just naturally coalesced around the team leader and everyone rolled around in a giant death ball, then playing "Get Down Mr.President" for the team leader to secure the cap. I had no idea at the time PD was a completely new gamemode for TF2 and was really disappointed when the event ended and all the new maps just got removed from quickplay rotation and weren't even included after matchmaking was added. Man this brings back the hazy confusion and excitement of diving headfirst into a completely new game with my best friend. What I wouldn't give to experience those times again.
Man, i wish I could have been around for a major update. I joined in late-late 2018, so I’ve never seen new content like that, aside from Halloween stuff. Granted, there have been some WILD new Halloween maps recently, like the pumpkin one. Also the Christmas stuff, but nothing outside of holiday releases.
@@NotSnak i know but putting them under that category in the first place shitcans anyone actually queuing into them. Like invasion 2fort and probed? Cmon man they can't just put those in CTF and KOtH pools? Also adding more non seasonal PD maps besides watergate and making it its own category in the normal rotation would be amazing, even with bots clogging casual it would at the very least mean there would be a pool of PD maps everyone has pre-installed to play on stock community servers.
I thought this was going to be a sort of "what were they thinking" episode, but it ended up being an interesting behind-the-scenes look at the history of Watergate.
to be fair wutvillie is a masterpiece. u just dont understand it. at least it better then previous maps before it. we live in an age of style and wutville is a showcase of it. breadspace is a showcase of swag. wutville has a train and yeah textures are shit, yeah map sucks, valve too much of coward tho and so is community behind it. it was better when it was not finished. doubt it even is finished, becuz thats just something valve and community loves to do that. just half-bake something. like most it is just recycled assets. typical development from valve and community. they also love making maps boring, long, and nowhere. most maps are just copies of each other. train is funny tho. the only good thing is the graphics. but that just the style. textures may be shit, but that is something valve would approve becuz they done it.
As a mapper who loves to dabble in map logic to make weird stuff, PD is _such_ a blessing. You can add it to any gamemode, it handles points, it has a customizable HUD that you can use to show anything, it has a built-in timer, it's amazing. I'm so thankful Valve decided to add this to the game
it's so fitting that you have to give aliens beer so they can drunk and crash the spaceship, is a crazy idea that just the demoman could come up with and every mercenary said "That's the best idea we have" It fits so well in tf2
Wow, I never realized the map was inspired from that mission from The Knife of Dunwall, it's kinda obvious now seeing that each side is a team, as in the DLC each side was like a street gang, both constantly fighting, and i always wondered why it was beer and not something else, I never could've guessed honestly, thanks for the informative video :)
Before Invasion came out I got to speak to Egan when he was testing Watergate on a server and waiting for Valve to join his playtest (they never showed up that day), he's made a ton of surf maps in the past and community surf servers are what got him into mapping in the first place. He's also a fan of Les Miserables and included a few(?) references to it in the map as well and shared this video with me ua-cam.com/video/JEVago2PKn0/v-deo.html Overall he seems like a cool guy and I'm glad PD got included, I just wish we had more non-event PD maps
Honestly really cool to see how valve went about this and how it's implementation came from such unique mechanic experimenting like that. I never knew pd was spawned from players tinkering around with mode ideas like that and seeing valve interact in a friendly way like that just blows me away. ...I have to wonder where that went since then and now.
@@muddashucka9743 "at times" literally every single video about tf2, you have people shit-talking valve despite valve being by far the best aaa game development company in terms of quality and thought/care put into their work Because they didn't continue to work on a free to play game that is 15 years old, a game that valve has worked on more than any other company has worked on a game safe for subscription based things like wow where they continue to make profits
@@Nikotheleepic >in terms of quality and care/thought out into their work. Maybe back then sure, but sure as hell not since 2016. Where was the care and thought put into MYM, or fixing the hacker problem, or actually acknowledging the game is not getting new content anytime soon? Or Artifact with both how the original version was a shit P2W ripoff of hearthstone and how they forced the team trying to redo it to dump it.
Cool deep dive into Egan's project. Nice to hear about it from this perspective as I was busy with my own project at the time! Egan put a ton of work into it.
I remember playing the b5 for the first time during the TF2Maps EU playtests and I was absolutley blown away but how impressive it was. When Valve added it to the game it was a bit strange, knowing that to run it you had to download a special plugin and I was thinking that maybe Valve ran the plugin for them, that or they did something similar to Crash's tf_generic_bomb entity, but did it to the reactor cores instead. It still feel uncanny even when it was in the game with the code translated by Valve to be vanilla. Still among the best game modes... when you're not the target for having all the bottles that is
It's a damn shame that this is only non-halloween map to have PD. PD is honestly a more evolved CTF and is a genuine blast to play. TF2 needs to bring PD more into the spotlight and put it in the main map pool for Casual Mode.
If Player Destruction was renamed to something catchier, it'd be so much more popular. I see why it was named PD because of its dev history, but if there's ever a TF3 it needs to be a default game mode with a good name. I'd even be happy if it was called Team Deathmatch!
this was a very interesting video! I never knew the story of the map/gamemode and it makes me have a huge appreciation for it. I can only imagine how it felt to help valve put in a gamemode like that and I hope the person who made it is proud :)
Never thought I'd see a history video on my favorite tf2 map. Such a fun gamemode, it is a shame the game mode really gets played during Halloween. And even then watergate isn't in that rotation.
I think you missed the part where the mapmaker sneaks into Valve's offices and then spends 2 years covering it up before ultimately resigning after releasing the tapes, i mean map.
@@gamingmaster6377 a bunch of guys sneaked into the goverment building and left audio recorders to get dirt on other politicians. People found out, Nixon was denying everything until he couldn't anymore, then he resigned. I highly recommend reading up more about it
It was awesome hearing the story of all the gimmick maps and rough-edged versions of Watergate behind it, a great reminder that sucking at something but trying anyway is the first step to being good at something.
its actually kinda depressing seeing how great valve used to be with the community like, they played their maps with their team and gave each one feedback, that's really cool of them
I always go into maps in TF2, see the creators listed there, and wonder about the design process. After all, it's not like there's commentary for maps outside of the initial few. I think these stories need to be told, and it's great that you made this video. I'd love it if you made more.
Absolutely my favourite map from the Invasion update, in part due to the unique gamemode but mainly because it was just a really fun map to play. I've never actually thought about the process members of the community must go through when their ideas get added to the game so this was a lovely informative video, thank you so much! W E A R E I N T H E B E A M
Fun fact I haven't seen mentioned yet, the text to speech voice for capturing on Watergate and what not was going to be actually dubbed at some point, but they never got around to it
Certain mechanics, namely sentry bases and medics, can interfere with the dm-fest gameplay by re-adding necessary team picks and strategies. A single twitch streamer furry heavy with his vaxx pocket can turn the whole thing into a glorified KOTH. However, if you're lucky enough to find a good server with everyone just messing around, Player Destruction is a blast and absolutely an overlooked mode.
Yeah, I think it's just a symptom of TF2's game design & how well/badly it works in perfectly symmetrical gamemodes. Player Destruction still encourages setting up base & making an impenetrable wall of arms just as KotH, 5 CP, & CtF do. Perhaps it should go for a PvZ GW route where they made CtF asymmetrical.
@@lorenzpacis3249 Maintaining a constant defense and offense is pretty annoying. A team divided on which to do, pushes spoiled by backcappers, etc. An objective works best as a catalyst to bring all the players together, which is why KOTH and Payload are so good. As for CTF, the shifting objectives also contribute to it's problems. Defending a flag that dropped somewhere stupid is never fun.
Player Destruction is like, one of the coolest gamemodes to me. It meshes in with the other gamemodes perfectly, not being too out of the ordinary, while still doing something fresh. Shame it only has like, 3 maps, though... I feel like it'd work perfectly with the other stuff in tf2. Maybe as like, these little 'Mini Intel' cases, or little clipboards you pick up and then toss into the Mann Co bucket/tank/whatever... Having your team collect intel and dirt on the other team in lore, while just having it serve the same purpose as the other Player Destruction maps.
really interesting video, i like playing in hammer sometimes and had a lof of fun creating silly maps so, videos talking about the story of official maps seems really interesting to me :)
I think I was the first public player to step onto beta 5 watergate during playtesting on the TF2Maps server. Just jumped in randomly one day because I was curious about a pd_ map. Egan was on at the time, and we just chatted about what it was like playing on the map from a public view. Super friendly guy! I thought the head hunter style gameplay was fun, and the map was daring enough to try things we don't usually see in normal tf2. It was incredible seeing it featured in an official update later, It defiantly deserved a place in tf2.
I'm not overly found of Player Destruction, mostly because on the maps it's used in (99% Halloween maps), feel very claustrophobic, and the Leader's Dispenser Mechanic can end up making certain teams almost impossible to beat if they are smart and stick near him and in easily defended enclosed areas (Primarily thinking about Monster Bash, but that map has a ton of other problems too, not related to PD). BUT THAT BEING SAID, I find Watergate to be the exception to this. It is an amazingly well designed map, and when the Invasion Update happened, I spent most of my time here compared to any other map. Good teams can still abuse the Dispenser mechanic, but the map is open enough to make it challenging to effectively hold an area and hoard Player Drops, letting the other team have a chance to catch up and turn the tide of the battle. Egan did a fantastic job on this map, and I hope it inspires others to come around and make new and interesting gamemodes for the game, instead of just relying on what's already present. My own personal hope would be that we get a gamemode similar to Halo's Slayer mode! 2Fort and Harvest should be first to have variants on that mode, lol.
Wow this was really cool. I never knew there was so much history and over 60 beta versions of the map and it was made originally by one person and then helped by two other people. In terms of the video, I like the flow of it and the music fit it prefectly, it was relaxed and your delivery was good so I think it was a nice video to listen to.
I thought this video was great! I love to know more about what is / what was going on in the TF2 community, since it's the closest I can get to not getting instantly kicked by bots from the game. Just remembering the game I used to be able to play. I think narration for the on-screen comments directly by valve would be useful because even though I'm watching directly at my desk I did not notice when the captions would roll over to show new content and sometimes it seemed as though the shots were lingering on something due to being related to your most recent statement rather than introducing something new. Other than that, I love this style of video and appreciate the effort that goes into panning side-by-side shots of areas in different iterations of the map that highlight changes.
tfw Shounic's server pings you for tf2 time but it also secretly signaled a new video upload I had no idea about this history of this map. Robot destruction itself is more forgotten than Arena, so this is pretty cool. I like history style things. With the breakdown of tf2 code and spaghetti source ghosts, this one was a great fit.
As someone who really enjoys making experimental gamemodes for TF2, this gives me a lot of hope that my modes could get added someday. But with how hands-off Valve has been lately, it does feel like a pipe dream.
interesting to learn that player destruction started as an interesting use of the rd robots, i used to just think the gamemode name was a random joke but they truly share dna
Great map, I really enjoyed playing it back in the day with one friend :) Nowadays, there aren't any servers running with it cause of its unpopularity, which is a shame ;-; But the memories stay! Cool video shounic, thank u.
I never actually played this map. In fact, I think I spent the entirety of the invasion update playing the new version of 2Fort. I had no idea that it (watergate) included a whole new game mode. If only I could go back in time and try out this map back when it was new and experience it for the first time together with whole servers of other people.
I really liked the video! I'm a big fan of TF2 AND Dishonored, so it was cool to hear about the map maker's influences! This type of video, following a "historical" timeline, is pretty cool. I like a lot of other videos like it. You said you interviewed the map maker? I think the video maybe could have benefited by featuring what the map maker wanted to say a little bit more. This is an awesome youtube channel, thanks for all the great content!
This was the very first map I ever played on TF2. October or November 2015 I installed the game, and this was the first match I found. I have very fond memories of that. I'd love to see more content like this, it was very informative and interesting to see.
This video is inspirational! I've made a comprehensive remake of the Counter Strike round system along with 6 classic maps I made on my own in forge in Halo 3. It was a wild success in the community for being just me and hosting it on my free time... but I stopped after a few months after a panic attack and life caught up to me. My point is: this video goes in depth about the development process, which is exactly what I've been wanting to do for a while for my development process for this Halo-Counter-Strike game mode I made. Thank you for the upload, hopefully I can find it in me to finish the dev vlogs.
@@Mate_Antal_Zoltan I say official as in Treated as one of the Main Modes alongside Payload and CP. PD doesn't even have its own Sub-Menu in the Casual Menu. Not to mention. Most of the PD maps are only playable in casual in roughly month of the year. Its saying something when most of the Maps for the mode is literally only playable year round on community servers
I so long for an alternate timeline in which player destruction displaced ctf and endless hightower as the “chill” gamemode. Also I feel like a lot of the now unused arena maps could be retooled to work pretty well with this mode. Replace the beer with cash again.
I have fond memories of Watergate, I recall joining a server to witness delfy doing his skyboxes exploit for his video. PD is such a fun game mode, and it has given so many great maps as a result.
Honestly one of my favourite maps in the game, I remember when it dropped when I was at school at the time. And when I got home me, my older brother, and some friends played on the maps for hours.
Player destruction is one of the more unique ideas for a game mode that I personally really enjoy, I always look forward to doing the Halloween only maps that feature the game mode, have a great day btw :3
I remember when the invasion update came out I played watergate so much I loved the concept of the map and that the objective wasn't exactly the focus but a more side thing to killing enemy players much like team deathmatch.
I'm glad Valve likes the crash at the end as much as I do. Feels like an old Build Engine game where you blow up massive parts of the map, especially with how the explosions render on the giant UFO, and the screenshake.
I didn't even know it was in the game. When the update came out I tried a few matches of the new stuff but after seeing the alien themed 2Fort I got bored and assumed all the maps were just reskins. This video also reminded me that the robot destruction game mode exists. I'll have to try these out again.
Yet another awesome video, shounic! I was wondering though if you could sometime explain this weird phenomenon at the start of matches. Certain players are sometimes able to move sooner than others and it always seems random, but I bet there must be some way to manipulate that system so that you can always have the fastest rollout. In any case, love the visa and I hope to see much more!
![tf2's scrapped elaborate, 8 map soldier training course: official rocket jump map, etc [2023 leak]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3Cz7Id_pIQA/mqdefault.jpg)
since this video is pretty out of my usual comfort zone, i'd appreciate if you could tell me if you thought the video was good, or if you perhaps have criticism on the organization of the story. the feedback would be helpful. thanks :)
edit: ah good call, some of the text was hard to read on phones
Is nice
I thought the video was good
It was interesting for sure great work
It was well paced
Wunderbar!
This map feels so absurd, collect beers and give them to the aliens, and whenever you get in the beam, "the line™" plays. Why? God knows. Is it funny though? Yes.
It is map lore that you are getting beer for the aliens so they can be drunk.
it's such an insanely convoluted explanation that i had no idea what i was supposed to do the first time i played this map
The voice lines were disagreed among Valve and in turn literally just used a Text to Speech generator to make the voice lines. Kinda sad actually.
Cz it's not an aliens it's just buch of engineers that constructed spaceship to steal beer
@@LeDerpLegend at least it entered the "hall of fame" of the game, alongside other jokes such as the trolldier itself
"He added a boat here because it was quote: 'cool.'"
He's not wrong
I tottaly agree with him
Why wouldn’t you add a boat
@@fisherisawesome9547 It would give you some cover as you go into water tbh, because most of the time swiming in tf2 is a hinderance (can't jump, exposed to anyone above, also screw up pyros)
@@theotv5522 🤓
Just kidding those are valid concerns
basically like that simpsons episode where homer say " i added this because it looked cute"
mr burns: cute uh? FIRST PRIZE
I still remember when this map came out back in the Invasion update. That whole update was filled with crazy and experimental things on so many of the maps that they introduced. It's a shame that the update was a little bit of a dumpster fire behind the scenes, as even though I wasn't too big of a fan of many of the ideas that these maps were playing around with I still really enjoyed the fact that valve were willing to go crazy with experimenting for tf2. I miss this time of tf2 when just about anything could be thrown at the wall.
"Money degrades all the gods of man and turns them into commodities."
In the past, TF2 made money, yes, but it wasn't necessarily a cash cow that spat out Benjamins. Experimentation, community, creation and so much more were core to Valve's game design ethos. Now, the cash cow has been drained dry, all of the old ethea _(ethos, plural)_ that made Valve games great are long forgotten, and cash-cow hamburgers are on the menu.
_The cow represents both the money-making potential but also the subjective appeal that drew in people of all kinds. I'm bad at metaphors._
@@caramelldansen2204 Jesse, What the fuck are you talking about?
WE'RE MAKING TF2 FOOTBALL WITH GRAPPLING HOOKS
NO, WE AREN'T EXPLAINING ANYTHING, JUST PLAY IT AND FIGURE IT OUT NOW GOODBYE FOR FIVE MONTHS
And it took only 3 years after this....
@@caramelldansen2204 I disagree, Valve abandoned tf2 development because its codebase is fucked up, not because they only care about money
One of my favorite maps, player destruction is such an underappreciated gamemode. Good to hear a backstory, thank you!
Its underated because (i think) almost no one knows it exist, im gonna give it a try
@@a.i.m.f8567 good luck finding a server
@@a.i.m.f8567 good luck finding a server
@@Pllid i cant even play before next week-end, maybe this video will attract people idk
@@a.i.m.f8567 i hope it does since im trying to play it too
I KNEW IT WAS JUST HEADHUNTER!
That being said I'm really glad it's in the game, and I want to see more player destruction maps added. It essentially makes "Team deathmatch" an actual gamemode for those who treat certain maps as such already (ex Hightower).
tf2 will be never touched again. sadly.
@@Splarkszter there's always localization bs happening in between lazy picks for money making new crates.
Until the crates stop being unlocked in enough volume... then it'll either be fixed or discarded.
I definetly want PD to be made into a main gamemode.
@@ChronoSquare we are on 2022, VALVe will never touch tf2 even if they want. Because how the game is, the jokes it has and the people are ussually very sensitive about things for the wrong reasons this days.
The less exposure it has the better for them(is only what they think).
@@Splarkszter Least schizoid TF2 player:
I can't imagine the excitement Egan got when he merely got a response from Valve themselves, let alone being able to put his own gamemode and map into the official game. I would be absolutely giddy and ecstatic!
he actually got stressed more than anything because now he had to work up to professional mapping standards on what was a side project. to this day he kinda regrets it getting popular
source: I'm a close friend
@@windowsxseven it definitely shows the love put into it, its definitely got more details than other maps, like its more dynamic geometry to make it look less blocky, why does he regret it getting popular if you dont mind me asking?
@@eurobeatintensifies5840 he sent me the link to this video and said "look at this s##t", without the #. Probably related.
@@windowsxseven lol this sounds fake man
@@windowsxseven that shit did not happen
The fact that you give beers to aliens to defeat them, all while killing each other for the beers, is just such a tf2 thing I love it
such a double edged sword that update was. On one hand, it showed how Valve was capable of actually working with the community. On the other hand, it showed how incapable the community was with working together when in the wrong hands.
Incapable how?
@@AyCe Some members of the team, seeking valor, argued over how much each of them were worth. In their in-fighting, at least one of them leaked the update prematurely. Valve hasn't trusted the community on an update ever since.
@@wolfcl0ck wow
@@wolfcl0ck What about the Last Stand update for Left 4 Dead 2?
@@refractivity3388 Last Stand also had infighting, so it wasn't off Scott free
I basically started playing TF2 when the Invasion update dropped. I had no idea what I was doing or what was going on but I loved the retro space aesthetic and I loved playing the Invasion maps. Watergate was a lot to take in as someone completely new to the game but it was such a blast when you had a team that just naturally coalesced around the team leader and everyone rolled around in a giant death ball, then playing "Get Down Mr.President" for the team leader to secure the cap. I had no idea at the time PD was a completely new gamemode for TF2 and was really disappointed when the event ended and all the new maps just got removed from quickplay rotation and weren't even included after matchmaking was added.
Man this brings back the hazy confusion and excitement of diving headfirst into a completely new game with my best friend. What I wouldn't give to experience those times again.
Man, i wish I could have been around for a major update. I joined in late-late 2018, so I’ve never seen new content like that, aside from Halloween stuff. Granted, there have been some WILD new Halloween maps recently, like the pumpkin one. Also the Christmas stuff, but nothing outside of holiday releases.
Watergate is actually added to matchmaking you can queue for it under. The alternative gamemodes tab or whatever it is i forgor
Watergate as well as a couple other invasion maps are under alternate game modes
@@NotSnak i know but putting them under that category in the first place shitcans anyone actually queuing into them. Like invasion 2fort and probed? Cmon man they can't just put those in CTF and KOtH pools? Also adding more non seasonal PD maps besides watergate and making it its own category in the normal rotation would be amazing, even with bots clogging casual it would at the very least mean there would be a pool of PD maps everyone has pre-installed to play on stock community servers.
Yeah this was around the time I really got into team fortress 2 also. I just played robot destruction all day
I thought this was going to be a sort of "what were they thinking" episode, but it ended up being an interesting behind-the-scenes look at the history of Watergate.
Watergated awesome
Watergoat?
Wow amateur creator, created new mode?
I wish more creative maps get added to Valve, would be great for variety
Despite being awful at TF2 and not playing custom maps much theres still a bunch of maps i know that i wanted to be added to official tf2
I wish special delivery had more maps. I like sd_doomsday.
Creative maps is how we end up with Wutville
Valve is known for picking up good ideas from hobbyists and making them official.
to be fair wutvillie is a masterpiece. u just dont understand it. at least it better then previous maps before it. we live in an age of style and wutville is a showcase of it. breadspace is a showcase of swag. wutville has a train and yeah textures are shit, yeah map sucks, valve too much of coward tho and so is community behind it. it was better when it was not finished. doubt it even is finished, becuz thats just something valve and community loves to do that. just half-bake something. like most it is just recycled assets. typical development from valve and community. they also love making maps boring, long, and nowhere. most maps are just copies of each other. train is funny tho. the only good thing is the graphics. but that just the style. textures may be shit, but that is something valve would approve becuz they done it.
As a mapper who loves to dabble in map logic to make weird stuff, PD is _such_ a blessing. You can add it to any gamemode, it handles points, it has a customizable HUD that you can use to show anything, it has a built-in timer, it's amazing. I'm so thankful Valve decided to add this to the game
it's so fitting that you have to give aliens beer so they can drunk and crash the spaceship, is a crazy idea that just the demoman could come up with and every mercenary said "That's the best idea we have"
It fits so well in tf2
Wow, I never realized the map was inspired from that mission from The Knife of Dunwall, it's kinda obvious now seeing that each side is a team, as in the DLC each side was like a street gang, both constantly fighting, and i always wondered why it was beer and not something else, I never could've guessed honestly, thanks for the informative video :)
Before Invasion came out I got to speak to Egan when he was testing Watergate on a server and waiting for Valve to join his playtest (they never showed up that day), he's made a ton of surf maps in the past and community surf servers are what got him into mapping in the first place. He's also a fan of Les Miserables and included a few(?) references to it in the map as well and shared this video with me ua-cam.com/video/JEVago2PKn0/v-deo.html
Overall he seems like a cool guy and I'm glad PD got included, I just wish we had more non-event PD maps
Egan seems like a nice guy to talk with
shoutout surf_venice
*"WE ARE IN THE BEAM"*
Honestly really cool to see how valve went about this and how it's implementation came from such unique mechanic experimenting like that. I never knew pd was spawned from players tinkering around with mode ideas like that and seeing valve interact in a friendly way like that just blows me away.
...I have to wonder where that went since then and now.
1. Noone at Valve wants to work on TF2
2. The community's gotten a little aggressive towards Valve at times
@@muddashucka9743 "at times" literally every single video about tf2, you have people shit-talking valve despite valve being by far the best aaa game development company in terms of quality and thought/care put into their work Because they didn't continue to work on a free to play game that is 15 years old, a game that valve has worked on more than any other company has worked on a game safe for subscription based things like wow where they continue to make profits
@@Nikotheleepic true
@@Nikotheleepic >in terms of quality and care/thought out into their work.
Maybe back then sure, but sure as hell not since 2016. Where was the care and thought put into MYM, or fixing the hacker problem, or actually acknowledging the game is not getting new content anytime soon? Or Artifact with both how the original version was a shit P2W ripoff of hearthstone and how they forced the team trying to redo it to dump it.
@@Nikotheleepic you have to let it go, the game is dead.
Cool deep dive into Egan's project. Nice to hear about it from this perspective as I was busy with my own project at the time! Egan put a ton of work into it.
Everybody ignored this guy for a year?
I remember playing the b5 for the first time during the TF2Maps EU playtests and I was absolutley blown away but how impressive it was.
When Valve added it to the game it was a bit strange, knowing that to run it you had to download a special plugin and I was thinking that maybe Valve ran the plugin for them, that or they did something similar to Crash's tf_generic_bomb entity, but did it to the reactor cores instead.
It still feel uncanny even when it was in the game with the code translated by Valve to be vanilla.
Still among the best game modes... when you're not the target for having all the bottles that is
It's a damn shame that this is only non-halloween map to have PD. PD is honestly a more evolved CTF and is a genuine blast to play.
TF2 needs to bring PD more into the spotlight and put it in the main map pool for Casual Mode.
If Player Destruction was renamed to something catchier, it'd be so much more popular. I see why it was named PD because of its dev history, but if there's ever a TF3 it needs to be a default game mode with a good name. I'd even be happy if it was called Team Deathmatch!
There's a Christmas PD map too technically
pd_2fort would be amazing
Good news! The just added Selyen, a PD map, to the game! And it’s non-Halloween!
@@egon3705 there is it's called 2fort invasion
this was a very interesting video! I never knew the story of the map/gamemode and it makes me have a huge appreciation for it. I can only imagine how it felt to help valve put in a gamemode like that and I hope the person who made it is proud :)
I really love player destruction and miss the map asteroid and it's gamemode. I also think capping a point for bonus ducks is still a good idea.
It was my favourite map, why did it have to die :(
10:11 "hey valve tf team" these words will never be said again
Never thought I'd see a history video on my favorite tf2 map. Such a fun gamemode, it is a shame the game mode really gets played during Halloween. And even then watergate isn't in that rotation.
Isn't one of the Halloween map's essentially reskinned Watergate though? I might be wrong though
@@Mystic-Midnight Nah, the closest one in design concept and game mode is Pirate Cove but they are both very different maps.
Robot destruction was the one of the best game mode... Jerma and star_ beeping still in my head...
Byeah
I know that guy, from the servers.
I think you missed the part where the mapmaker sneaks into Valve's offices and then spends 2 years covering it up before ultimately resigning after releasing the tapes, i mean map.
Wat
@@elitebelt (It’s a joke about the Watergate scandal, the event which led to the resignation of Richard Nixon)
@@GrizonII explain in short paragraph
he released the red tape recorder
@@gamingmaster6377 a bunch of guys sneaked into the goverment building and left audio recorders to get dirt on other politicians.
People found out, Nixon was denying everything until he couldn't anymore, then he resigned.
I highly recommend reading up more about it
It was awesome hearing the story of all the gimmick maps and rough-edged versions of Watergate behind it, a great reminder that sucking at something but trying anyway is the first step to being good at something.
its actually kinda depressing seeing how great valve used to be with the community
like, they played their maps with their team and gave each one feedback, that's really cool of them
The other comments say that due to some of the project members leaking the update from anger, Valve decided not to make community updates again
One of the first maps I played when I first started playing TF2... I never knew Watergate had such an interesting backstory.
i really loved this cool dive into a community map's developpement history. i hope you do it again!
It’s so cool how player destruction is still being updated and has maps to this day.
I always go into maps in TF2, see the creators listed there, and wonder about the design process. After all, it's not like there's commentary for maps outside of the initial few.
I think these stories need to be told, and it's great that you made this video. I'd love it if you made more.
I remember getting two 36/39 killstreaks in a row as demoknight on this map's release, good times
Absolutely my favourite map from the Invasion update, in part due to the unique gamemode but mainly because it was just a really fun map to play. I've never actually thought about the process members of the community must go through when their ideas get added to the game so this was a lovely informative video, thank you so much!
W E A R E I N T H E B E A M
Fun fact I haven't seen mentioned yet, the text to speech voice for capturing on Watergate and what not was going to be actually dubbed at some point, but they never got around to it
Certain mechanics, namely sentry bases and medics, can interfere with the dm-fest gameplay by re-adding necessary team picks and strategies. A single twitch streamer furry heavy with his vaxx pocket can turn the whole thing into a glorified KOTH. However, if you're lucky enough to find a good server with everyone just messing around, Player Destruction is a blast and absolutely an overlooked mode.
so basically; if nobody acts like a goon everyone has fun
the worst part is that some people have no honor and can't just mess around
Yeah, I think it's just a symptom of TF2's game design & how well/badly it works in perfectly symmetrical gamemodes. Player Destruction still encourages setting up base & making an impenetrable wall of arms just as KotH, 5 CP, & CtF do. Perhaps it should go for a PvZ GW route where they made CtF asymmetrical.
@@lorenzpacis3249 Maintaining a constant defense and offense is pretty annoying. A team divided on which to do, pushes spoiled by backcappers, etc. An objective works best as a catalyst to bring all the players together, which is why KOTH and Payload are so good. As for CTF, the shifting objectives also contribute to it's problems. Defending a flag that dropped somewhere stupid is never fun.
@@zappodude7591
I don't know why I spoke badly of KotH. I would agree to your statements.
@@lorenzpacis3249 You spoke badly of 5cp so you're still based
Player Destruction is like, one of the coolest gamemodes to me. It meshes in with the other gamemodes perfectly, not being too out of the ordinary, while still doing something fresh. Shame it only has like, 3 maps, though... I feel like it'd work perfectly with the other stuff in tf2. Maybe as like, these little 'Mini Intel' cases, or little clipboards you pick up and then toss into the Mann Co bucket/tank/whatever... Having your team collect intel and dirt on the other team in lore, while just having it serve the same purpose as the other Player Destruction maps.
Cool video! Great map and gamemode, and a cool background story to it as well :)
Love this new style of video, your method of commentary is great match for historic interest pieces. Great work 😊
It's still an interesting map. I'm happy to learn about the history about it. That update was mixed reviewed. But I still liked it.
Seeing the dishonored comparisons make a lot of sense in hindsight
Watching this while playing dishonored, great to hear that one of the now official tf2 gamemodes has a map inspired by dishonored!
egan being a fan of arena mode explains a lot and I mean that in a nice way
really interesting video, i like playing in hammer sometimes and had a lof of fun creating silly maps so, videos talking about the story of official maps seems really interesting to me :)
This was really good! I know you said this felt out of your comfort zone but I feel that this type of video really fit your style!
I think I was the first public player to step onto beta 5 watergate during playtesting on the TF2Maps server. Just jumped in randomly one day because I was curious about a pd_ map. Egan was on at the time, and we just chatted about what it was like playing on the map from a public view. Super friendly guy! I thought the head hunter style gameplay was fun, and the map was daring enough to try things we don't usually see in normal tf2. It was incredible seeing it featured in an official update later, It defiantly deserved a place in tf2.
this was absolutely fascinating to watch, it’s incredible to witness the extensive history of this game
I'm not overly found of Player Destruction, mostly because on the maps it's used in (99% Halloween maps), feel very claustrophobic, and the Leader's Dispenser Mechanic can end up making certain teams almost impossible to beat if they are smart and stick near him and in easily defended enclosed areas (Primarily thinking about Monster Bash, but that map has a ton of other problems too, not related to PD).
BUT THAT BEING SAID, I find Watergate to be the exception to this. It is an amazingly well designed map, and when the Invasion Update happened, I spent most of my time here compared to any other map. Good teams can still abuse the Dispenser mechanic, but the map is open enough to make it challenging to effectively hold an area and hoard Player Drops, letting the other team have a chance to catch up and turn the tide of the battle.
Egan did a fantastic job on this map, and I hope it inspires others to come around and make new and interesting gamemodes for the game, instead of just relying on what's already present. My own personal hope would be that we get a gamemode similar to Halo's Slayer mode! 2Fort and Harvest should be first to have variants on that mode, lol.
That was a good story and the video did it justice. Good job
This is one of my favorite maps honestly, wish it wasn't banished to Alternative Gamemodes so that you could find a game easier
Egan made a whole bunch of cool surf maps back then and they were my absolute favorites!
Player Destruction is an amazing gamemode, all the maps added through the years were balanced and really fun to play.
Wow this was really cool. I never knew there was so much history and over 60 beta versions of the map and it was made originally by one person and then helped by two other people. In terms of the video, I like the flow of it and the music fit it prefectly, it was relaxed and your delivery was good so I think it was a nice video to listen to.
This video is amazing! I love the new style its so interesting.
I can't believe it, such a cool map with such a cool story!
that map being heavily based off of dishonored makes sense now, it looks so much like dishonored but with the tf2 art style
I thought this video was great! I love to know more about what is / what was going on in the TF2 community, since it's the closest I can get to not getting instantly kicked by bots from the game. Just remembering the game I used to be able to play.
I think narration for the on-screen comments directly by valve would be useful because even though I'm watching directly at my desk I did not notice when the captions would roll over to show new content and sometimes it seemed as though the shots were lingering on something due to being related to your most recent statement rather than introducing something new. Other than that, I love this style of video and appreciate the effort that goes into panning side-by-side shots of areas in different iterations of the map that highlight changes.
tfw Shounic's server pings you for tf2 time but it also secretly signaled a new video upload
I had no idea about this history of this map. Robot destruction itself is more forgotten than Arena, so this is pretty cool. I like history style things. With the breakdown of tf2 code and spaghetti source ghosts, this one was a great fit.
you can mute notifications in some channels, also check your roles, there are some for pings that you cam remove
player destruction is one of my favorite game modes, and my favorite Halloween map of each year is always the pd one :)
As someone who really enjoys making experimental gamemodes for TF2, this gives me a lot of hope that my modes could get added someday. But with how hands-off Valve has been lately, it does feel like a pipe dream.
interesting to learn that player destruction started as an interesting use of the rd robots, i used to just think the gamemode name was a random joke but they truly share dna
Great map, I really enjoyed playing it back in the day with one friend :) Nowadays, there aren't any servers running with it cause of its unpopularity, which is a shame ;-; But the memories stay!
Cool video shounic, thank u.
I never actually played this map. In fact, I think I spent the entirety of the invasion update playing the new version of 2Fort. I had no idea that it (watergate) included a whole new game mode. If only I could go back in time and try out this map back when it was new and experience it for the first time together with whole servers of other people.
I really liked the video! I'm a big fan of TF2 AND Dishonored, so it was cool to hear about the map maker's influences! This type of video, following a "historical" timeline, is pretty cool. I like a lot of other videos like it. You said you interviewed the map maker? I think the video maybe could have benefited by featuring what the map maker wanted to say a little bit more. This is an awesome youtube channel, thanks for all the great content!
This was the very first map I ever played on TF2. October or November 2015 I installed the game, and this was the first match I found. I have very fond memories of that. I'd love to see more content like this, it was very informative and interesting to see.
This history stuff is super dope, not everything has to be an incredibly indepth code dive, history and trivia like this is lit :)
Watergate is my favorite map in the game, and the one map I bought a stamp for. Thank you egan for making Player Destruction
This video is inspirational! I've made a comprehensive remake of the Counter Strike round system along with 6 classic maps I made on my own in forge in Halo 3. It was a wild success in the community for being just me and hosting it on my free time... but I stopped after a few months after a panic attack and life caught up to me.
My point is: this video goes in depth about the development process, which is exactly what I've been wanting to do for a while for my development process for this Halo-Counter-Strike game mode I made. Thank you for the upload, hopefully I can find it in me to finish the dev vlogs.
Such an interesting idea, would be nice to see more of how these ideas came into the game, or even custom servers that became popular.
Interesting information. Some of it I knew but some were new to me aswell, even though i'm myself in the map creation scene. Keep it up!
Player destruction is so cool that I honestly think it should be an official mode. A mix of Arena and CTF but makes both modes better
bro???
there are several PD maps in the game's rotation, and even more during holiday events
@@Mate_Antal_Zoltan I say official as in Treated as one of the Main Modes alongside Payload and CP. PD doesn't even have its own Sub-Menu in the Casual Menu.
Not to mention. Most of the PD maps are only playable in casual in roughly month of the year. Its saying something when most of the Maps for the mode is literally only playable year round on community servers
"he added a boat because it was, quote, "cool"" lmao
1:35 I like how everyone in the red team is holding a weapon and you got all the spies there a posing
i forgot about all this wow this creates more nostalgia because its something i experienced only once while the rest of tf2 i can go back to
I so long for an alternate timeline in which player destruction displaced ctf and endless hightower as the “chill” gamemode.
Also I feel like a lot of the now unused arena maps could be retooled to work pretty well with this mode. Replace the beer with cash again.
Man, this was some pretty interesting stuff. I hope you can find more things like this!
I have fond memories of Watergate, I recall joining a server to witness delfy doing his skyboxes exploit for his video.
PD is such a fun game mode, and it has given so many great maps as a result.
Honestly one of my favourite maps in the game, I remember when it dropped when I was at school at the time. And when I got home me, my older brother, and some friends played on the maps for hours.
amazing video, I love hearing these stories
Player Destruction is what Arena should've been the whole time.
This was cool! You should do more mini-documentaries like this.
Kinda awesome how a scrapped map and it's gamemode became the basis for watergate.
when the guy says when he recorded the bug report video, it would be a good idea to make subtitles in case the audio is hard to understand
This map has my favorite context from all
I’ve met Egan before, he’s one of the nicest people you’ll ever meet.
I love player destruction.
Player destruction is one of the more unique ideas for a game mode that I personally really enjoy, I always look forward to doing the Halloween only maps that feature the game mode, have a great day btw :3
Still my favourite gamemode and map to this day, wish pd was a official gamemode
Great analysis video! Thanks for uploading!
I remember when the invasion update came out I played watergate so much I loved the concept of the map and that the objective wasn't exactly the focus but a more side thing to killing enemy players much like team deathmatch.
its been like 5 years, I miss robot destruction so much
I’d would quite like to see more vids like this. As well as the usual ofcourse.
Great video, shounic. Just one thing left.
_taps mic, clears throat_ "We are in the beam."
I'm glad Valve likes the crash at the end as much as I do. Feels like an old Build Engine game where you blow up massive parts of the map, especially with how the explosions render on the giant UFO, and the screenshake.
Someone had made a new version of arena last year, it was super fun!
You could resurrect your team mates by collecting cores, and capturing points
Watergate is such a fascinating map. It was nice to hear about its development.
I didn't even know it was in the game. When the update came out I tried a few matches of the new stuff but after seeing the alien themed 2Fort I got bored and assumed all the maps were just reskins. This video also reminded me that the robot destruction game mode exists. I'll have to try these out again.
4:13 "He added a boat here because it was quote 'cool'."
what a lad
Yet another awesome video, shounic! I was wondering though if you could sometime explain this weird phenomenon at the start of matches. Certain players are sometimes able to move sooner than others and it always seems random, but I bet there must be some way to manipulate that system so that you can always have the fastest rollout.
In any case, love the visa and I hope to see much more!
switch weapons and you will be allowed to move. (though idk why this works)