Miriam said “Evil lurks in the datalinks as it lurked in the streets of yesteryear, but it was never the streets that were evil” and Zhakarov took that as a challenge
Where do you think they get the energy savings from? Usually you would expect to see a rise of energy usage in this scenario where policy makers are replaced with a power hungry computational solution., not the opposite. Really makes you think.
@@ErdeZ More efficient planning and execution without corruption, sketchy construction contracts that incentivise inefficient labour, multiple agendas and general human flaws like depression, greed and sorrow. Facebook is already creating a library of general human behavorism and coding neural networks to know how to manipulate you into being more receptive to products, so in some ways we are halfway there.
I don't see her as a Luddite - I see her as very cautious and canny about the potential effects of technological advancement on society, sometimes unnecessarily but she sees that as worthwhile. She and Pravin are the only two voices on Planet to ask "Guys? Hey, guys? Could we maybe not go through with this until we've thought about whether it's a good idea, and maybe come up with some failsafes for human nature?"
Human nature is fundamentally flawed. The failsafe is not needed. If the system breaks, it is because humanity is flawed, not the system. The solution is to fix humanity. ~This comment was brought to you by The Univeristy of Planet
@@nathangamble125 Bullpucky. Both are flawed - the system and humanity. The only practical, realistic solution that we have is to fix what we can out of them both.
AI at McDonald's taking orders at the drive-thru and somehow registering an order of 10 large decaf coffees when I only asked for a McChicken and medium fries. "We must dissent"
It always got me the Christian Fundamentalist was the voice of reason in this game, for that matter, that the Godless tyrant was the figure of enlightenment.
@nothing to see here Religious fundamentalism in real life is little different than the unrestrained ambition of "godless tyrants", as both have lost their sense of humanity in favor of dogmatic visions.
@@thedude5294 You leave a scribble on a public wall, someone will come along and write underneath it. It's when you have to search forums and reply to something this old, that's a necro.
I couldn't agree more. I suspect that the hatred of Miriam has more to do with how unceasingly aggressive she is in gameplay, personally. She does make some fantastic points, and it's worth remembering that one of the reasons the Believers have weaker tech is that they aren't as willing to indulge in morally questionable research practices, not because of Luddism. "Evil lurks in the datalinks as it lurked in the streets of yesteryear. But it was never the streets that were evil."
Hmm. Also. 'Go through, my children! The time of miracles is upon us. Let us cast off sin and walk together to the Garden of the Lord. With God's mercy we shall meet again on the other side.'
@@judgeees That one is a veeery late game tech if I recall. I think Psi Gates are about at the same level as the Universal Translator which ends up.. translating the monoliths around Planet as bible quotes. That would probably be the final click for Miriam to go even more crazy, originally balancing human theism and scripture to progress but now effectively given over justification that this is the promised land 100% and re-asserting reality now as a cosmic theatrical to her. Or that bible thesis is the main key to transcending the human body while the others see ascension as a science.
@@TheKnightOfSmite Agreed. Her belief is worrying though. I think every faction leader would have a disturbing justification to use a psi gate. Blind belief - you're warping reality to suit your value system and political dogma. Meanwhile, I'm sure Morgan would try to setup an amazing marketing campaign to push the tech. "While you were reading this, someone just travelled across the planet to another continent. Subscribe to the Morgan Now app for promotions and live access to our new VR app".
@@45calibermedic perhaps that the tech is not perfect, as zakarhovs rat could attest to. This is what Miriam says of the bulk matter transmitter secret project: "And what of the immortal soul in such transactions? Can this machine transmit and reattach it as well? Or is it lost forever, leaving a soulless body to wander the world in despair?„~ Sister Miriam Godwinson, "We Must Dissent""
"Whose streets?" scream the activists, shouting down the dissidents. The response comes from a city that cleans its own streets. Harmonious silence follows shortly thereafter.
I always thought it was interesting that while the AI plays the Believers as warmongering zealots, Miriam the character actually serves as a voice of reason/caution against technology run amok. Watching some of the secret project videos and reading tech descriptions in game you might start to realize that crazy as she and followers are? She's kinda got a point.
Notice how empty the streets seem to be. Then think about how the self-aware colony decided that petty graffiti is worth vaporizing people for. Think about that for a second.
@@luisostasuc8135 As the previous comment mentioned, it's not the simple vandalism or art. It's the IDEAS that the faction powers consider dangerous. Imagine spraying painting: "Remember the USS Liberty" on a wall and then you get vaporized by a robot.
@@quietone610 It's in the wiki and it says super fine hair thin probes are inserted into your head and spine. They don't only administer pain though, they can deliver pleasure too. A psychotherapist would basically be conditioning you with these extreme stimuli to get you to be a compliant drone.
Zakharov, ''Allow me to taste the fruit,'' Morgan, ''Your resources exist to be consumed, and consumed they will be,'' Lal, ''Beware of she who will deny you access to her pu**y,'' Santiago, ''If we have traveled between the stars, why can we not insert the simplest of probes?'', Yang ''Learn to satisfy the crass demands of your flesh and my bone,'' Dierdrie ''A penis lies ahead of us, and behind. Have you had your fill?''
''Allow me to taste your fruit.'' Zakharov ''Your resources exist to be consumed, and consumed they will be.'' Morgan ''Learn to satisfy the crass demands of your flesh and my bone.'' Yang ''Beware of she who will deny you access to her p***y.'' Lal ''Observe the finger as it tends so carefully to my flower.'' Deirdre ''We have struggled under the limitations of a virgin body. Until now.'' Santiago
Miriam's theology is the most underrated philosphical aspect of this game IMO. I feel you discount her at first because "lol crazy christian fundies in space lmao" but then she drops some big ol' philosophical quandaries on your ass as you get deeper into the game.
@@n3tw0rk_n3k0 It's because, in Alpha Centauri as in real life, to quote Martin Luther King, "Our technological development has outrun our moral development. We have guided missiles and misguided men." In other words, yes, you have Retroviral Engineering. Yes, you can create Genejack Factories, which make genetically-modified near-humans with reduced mental capacity, designed only for labor until they die. But just because you COULD, doesn't mean that you SHOULD. Funnily enough, that MLK quote was uses for a tech in Civilization 5 - another Sid Meier game.
@@jonahfalcon1970 Well, you can reduce to straw opponent anyone, Morgan's philosophy can also be summarized as "money is good", and Shengji Yang's as "UNLIMITED POWAAAAH". In fact it's more nuanced. I'm a scientist myself, but what scientific progress means without moral one? Despite all goods of progress, people still can be divided as happy and unhappy, rich and poor, healthy and ill. Maybe - just maybe - the exact keys to real progress are not tied to science?
I think largely cause most companies that would do this, do not want to paint such things in a negative light or show the problems with it. Since the rich and the elite rule, the last thing they want to do is fuel rebellion against them. It was from a time when gaming was not mainstream and there was alot of freedom in what game devs could do. As Sister said, we must dissent.
When I found out that in China there's been a tech showcase where one can automatically do the payment by facial recognition I thought "Hey, neat"... then I remembered the social credit system, and this video came to mind.
@@DarkArtistKaiser It is true. Games were underground '90, Sid and Bryan are from that period. They could release their imagination and creativity to max, without fear someone would be bothered, because they wouldn't-too small numbers saw game-regardless of copies sold. Now, when games are mainstream with budgets bigger than music and movies combined, authors are carefull not to insult censors with dangerous thoughts. Which is sad, but also inevitable in that cycle.
idk if you still use this account, today I read the news about MIcrosoft going to invests on self learning IA than can make other programs. Yes This game again was WAY too advanced in the future, it is 2023 right now.
This kind of reminds me of Jack Williamson's novel "The Humanoids" It's interesting how in the actual gameplay, Miriam is pure evil and will attack you for no reason at all, but in the game's canon storyline (NOT in the novels--that's completely different) she's the conscience of the factions, and she's actually pretty cool.
That's because at first her opposition seems pretty stupid. She seems to oppose even convenient technology. Then the technologies start getting creepier and start altering the limits of what is possible, and suddenly her warnings don't seem as stupid as they were before.
Aeder Liliaceae The developers were obviously biased against her (and the spartans), which made it even more fun how so many people ended up supporting her in the end.
Alter Eggo That's a good point...Meier clearly seperated the right wing factions (Morgan, Miriam, Santiago) from the left wing factions (Dierdre, Lal, Yang, Zakharov), and clearly demonstrated which side he is on. Fortunately, the political bias doesn't keep me from enjoying the game :D
Fubar AlAkbar On what ground you could Yang next to Dierdre, or Lal? lol. I think all of them represent an unique philosophy, not current day politics. If you read the manual and "letter by the devs" the hope side they are on is Space travel.
Secret Project is not a Orwellian dystopic hell controlled by an insane AI. On the contrary, it is a utopic society in which there is no problem, or struggle. Thinking otherwise is treason. Treason is punishable by death. Friend Computer is a benevolent and helpful friend to all. Thinking otherwise is insubordination. Insubordination is treason. Treason is punishable by death.
that's what i love about SMAC--You start out and Miriam is the fundamentalist, but by the end she is the skeptic and Zakharov is the zealot, pursuing a singularity with quasi religious fervor
This game is so awesome. Since or before this one, I never played anything that made me ponder seriously about what will become of us as a people. Higher praise than that, i cannot give.
Yeah it's like a learning AI controlling the security and maintenance duties of your colony. It helps law enforcement lessening the amount unhappy citizens and also halves energy maintenance costs of all facilities in all of your bases.
-1000 social credits. Warning, social credit rating under loyalty coefficient minimum. You are charged with anti-civil activity level 1. Protection Units: prosecution code: duty, sword, operate.
It means "we must oppose". The people are probably trying to form a resistance against the self-aware AI which has become so radical in it's actions that it killed the citizen who made that graffiti.
This whole video lends credence to the interpretation that Miriam is not really a fundimentalist maniac, but instead manipulating her entire faction into following her by acting as such. She DOES have a PhD in Human Psyc, after all.
Miriam is the real hero of the story, her faith is genuine, not fundamentalistic, but courageous and confident. Do not confuse her moral certainty with fanaticism.
To me, the whole game was about Miriam going from "that crazy lady" to "the last sane human being left in this AI-ruled hellscape of scientific torture and totalitarian atrocities".
Over the last three or so years, as AI has taken off and people have begun showing the first sparks of blind trust and devotion, I think upon this quote more and more often.
Online algorithms able to detect dissent as a form of spam and just nuking it without anyone noticing is proof the self aware colony foundations are thwre
@@viperswhip If you've named a city "Assassin's Redoubt", you have to reassess if you're the baddie or not. There are no saints on Planet but come on Corazon.
@@marsneedstowelsCorazon is a maniac. But worms killed everyone in that base, including children in their creches. Deirde is a maniacal eco-terrorist with just as little regard to life as Corazon.
Oooh. Their vaporized after images also got cleaned up. I didn't notice that the first time. Truly terrifying. Its so evil and ominous, its a shame that part of what it does is just a really, REALLY good decrease in your upkeep that everybody wants, and it only part of it that seems evil is based your social model. Then again, if you were in fact ALREADY a police state....
@IvanGroznyIV I once had a game where Miriam overhwhelmed Zakharov relatively early on, building a lead in tech and size that turned her into a superpower for most of the game. Gradually grinding her down and achieving superiority was one of the most difficult and satisfying gaming experiences I have ever achieved.
I think this is my favorite SMAC cut scene. So devilishly Orwellian! SMAC is an absolute work of art. Any game design course that doesn't include it is a fucking fraud!
Tenemos que DISENTIR! Crearemos entonces nuevos dioses para que rijan sobre nosotros? Que orgullosos nos hemos vuelto... y que CIEGOS. TENEMOS QUE DISENTIR!
Both your google/youtube search and your emails(if w/gmail) are scanned to profile you and target adds and shit at you. So no you're not being paranoid in case you were wondering.
Miriam has some nasty penalties, but she also has great probe defense in a game where probes are incredibly strong and a whopping +25% combat bonus when on the attack. You can definitely still do quite well with the Believers.
In my opinion, if a regime has to divert resources to keep its own population in line, then it's not very efficient. Even if the regime is advanced enough to use advanced machines to do the job (such as, say, a city-wide A.I.), those machines would require resources, such as energy, that could've been used elsewhere. If I wanted to represent this secret project in a more optimistic manner, I'd probably have the Self-Aware Colony respond to disasters, such as traffic accidents or fires inside buildings, or more serious crimes, such as murder or arson, instead of petty criminal activities such as graffiti tagging.
That's how it starts. But after all the fires are out and the accidents averted, the machine has already removed all of the rapists and murderers. Then it comes after ponzi schemers. Then tax evaders. Then graffitiers. Then jay walkers. Once the machine gets it in it's head to go after crime, it won't stop just because it's reached the level you're happy with. That's the point of the social commentary here. By contracting justice out to a machine, you lose the reason and mercy of a human mind. To the AI, a mandate to stamp out crime is an all or nothing proposition.
Joel Wurnig Of course, this all depends upon how the AI is programmed, along with whether or not there are humans overseeing certain actions that the AI performs, ready to intervene if something goes wrong. There's also the possibility that the city could be managed not by one all-powerful AI, but by multiple smaller AIs with more limited capabilities, such as one that manages fires, and another that responds to police calls.
ShadowWolfTJC You make a good point. But these people aren't just spray painting some simple tag or artwork. They seem to be apart of a movement that goes against the self-aware colony. "We must dissent." The self-aware colony kills these seeds of dissent in the populace and removes all evidence of discomformity.
This always appeared to me to have more layers than just "scary oppression". The phrasing "we must dissent" implies that it doesn't matter what is being dissented from, only that having a say matters. Here, humans lack control and even participation and resent this state of affairs. But in a self-aware, self-regulating colony, working with maximum efficiency in supervision, government and law enforcement, any dissent can only lead to worse conditions. Dissenters then are invariably people who have an inflated sense of worth and utter disregard for an optimized social order. They are bugs in the system. The question becomes whether mere self-determination is a Good that trumps wealth and justice as created and enforced by an agent outside of human control (even if initially instated by humans). Ironically, that is very similar to what Godwinsson actually demands herself of her followers; putting trust into a higher power and sacred scripture over the self-determined values of living, breathing people. They are not so different.
Yeah, I've often thought that Godwinson was an odd choice to make the voice lib for the self-aware colony as she is the one who has complete faith in a higher power. Her angle is that this artificial power is not the one that she believes to be the true power.
You've made a well thought out argument and it assumes that maximum efficiency in supervision in government and law enforcement is somehow a moral good. I have difficulty imagining that humans would not resent the state of affairs where they lack control, I have difficulty imagining that it wouldn't lead to many people feeling oppressed, as if they live in north korea, wanting to either flee or change this maximum efficiency government. Those who look at fellow humans as bugs in a system have made a fatal error of moral judgement: to put ideas before human life. You might as well start scientific experiments on live humans immediately, perhaps on living prisoners as china of old used to do, because that's only a logical extension of such an extreme collectivist position.
I think Godwinson is a good choice, hypocrisy and fundamentalism go hand in hand. Others can not play god, it only ends in folly.. But obviously the chosen hear the word of God so they are not 'playing God' but acting upon his will. I think it adds a fascinating subtext to the quote.
Try to see the irony under Miriam's point of view. She believes in an almigthy God superior to everything human or human-made. And then, these so called "logical" and "rational scientists" who deny him and claim to be "free" of the delusion of religion end creating artificial, human-made "false gods" to rule over them in place of the real one. So instead of keeping that freedom, they instead create machines and let their own creations to rule over them in place of God. So I imagine that for Miriam, that mut be facepalming to her: Instead of choosing under her view the real and almighty God to be their protector, they decide instead to become servants of lesser beings. Also, this must remind her a lot about the Old Testament when the ancient Israelites where in conflict with their neighbors which for them, they revered mute and powerless idols made of stone or wood. While their God had no shape, so it was blasphemous to give him one while he has none. For Miriam, it must be like that times can change, but people never does. Now those Self-Aware Colonies are the new replacement of those old gods and idols of yore.
"But in a self-aware, self-regulating colony, working with maximum efficiency in supervision, government and law enforcement, any dissent can only lead to worse conditions." Why could dissent not lead to better conditions? Which conditions are to be considered "worse" or "better" - and from what determinant?
@Adventchild8 You only see the cutscenes if you have the disc in the drive while playing the game, or if you selected the "complete" installation when you installed the game. Of course, several of the cracked/pirate versions of the game don't come with cutscenes, so...
How is the private/public distinction meaningful in that respect? "A person can speak all they like, but if William Randolph Hearst can just buy the newspapers, the radio, the tv, and the internet, how can it matter?"
@LividImp His psych profile stated that his world view is "let the market decide." so I think that means he doesn't get bothered by people disagreeing with him (unlike Yang or Miriam). But he did have one quote in which he talked about nerve stapling two workers. So perhaps you are right.
Chankljp I do not remember everything he said in his quotes, but I do not remember anything about personal freedoms, only economic freedoms. Wow, I haven't had a discussion like this since the good old days on Apolyton. I used to go by the handle of "Livid_Imp" or "LividImp" there too if there are any Apolytoners here.
@LividImp True. When I wrote that I meant if you are role playing using the personality of CEO Morgan based on his quotes and his psy profile (you can find it at the game's home page).
Usually Miriam pisses me off, but on this issue i do agree with her... Well in a way i remember in the book version the way they dissented was having saboteurs (forget what they are called in the game, release nerve gas into the major bases of every faction). An effective but i'd say slightly immoral form of dissent.
Hard to tell with the video quality and somebody may have already mentioned it, but does the left eye of the statue open at 0:11? It made me think maybe there's a camera hidden in it, watching.
SMAC is where religious fundamentalists are the voice of reason and humanity in the face of the dystopian endgame tech!
8 років тому+29
We do, however, have a self-aware colony. It's called social media. It does not quite have the teeth the self-aware colony here has, but it can be psychologically draining, as well as damaging.
Look up the boy who was arrested for joking with his friends about blowing up a school. People have lost their jobs, their sense of being, and their freedom from interacting with others online.
EvilMagnitude is correct, and there's nothing quite like a momentum game using the Believers. If you use your probes right, your army is an unstoppable juggernaut. That said, you're probably right about the devs and fundamentalism. During this period they had a "fundamentalist" form of government in both Civ2 and SMAC. By Civ3, Fundamentalism had been cut from the list, and religion was introduced as a game mechanic in Civ4.
Yeah, Miriam gets the short end of the stick though. She's even saddled with a penalty to planet rating that wasn't in the manual, in addition to the crippling -20% to science. The devs must have been ambivalent about environmentalists, capitalists, gun nuts etc. but they plainly loathed fundamentalists!
Strictly, it means to disagree. Like a Supreme Court's dissenting opinion. Dissent in the context of Miriam's writings means to rebel. Should I ever lead a rebellion, I'm stealing that phrase. :)
Morgan is the only faction that allows true economic freedom no matter what. The reason his bases are so small his because he spends more resources on each inhabitant than all the rest of the leaders. By far his society would be the best to live in.
@Nick Gar: Only if you're one of the rich at the top. A completely free market is completely free of regulations - and therefore free of any compulsion to abide by ethics. Think unchallengeable monopolies. Think not having to test your new products to see if they're safe before selling them. Think of the media being owned entirely by a corporation who won't ever report anything bad on themselves. It's the absolute ideal of capitalism. You either live at the top like a king, or at the bottom like a bug.
If a monopoly is unchallengeable is that already an issue on its own? If you do not test your new products to see if they are safe before selling them, you are not going to be selling them. Not for very long either. Think of the media being owned by a corporation who have an actual interest in journalism, and are not fed by the government such as it is the case in welfare states. It's the absolute ideal of capitalism. By far his society would be the best to live in.
That we must not accept this sort of thing any longer? It's also the title of a book by Miriam Godwinson, the leader of the Believers in the Alpha Centauri universe, so presumably these would-be dissenters are Believer sympathisers.
Not really. I mean, wouldn't it depend on who's building the project? Just because one faction uses the AI to exterminate dissenters, doesn't mean it has to be used that way. The projects bonuses seem to reflect this.
![CIV 6 - ALL 48 LEADERS DEFEATED SPEECH [CIV A to Z ORDER] RISE AND FALL / GATHERING STORM DLC](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_wRR0ZGfXGA/mqdefault.jpg)
Miriam said “Evil lurks in the datalinks as it lurked in the streets of yesteryear, but it was never the streets that were evil” and Zhakarov took that as a challenge
"Halved energy cost."
Such a horrifying video for such a mundane game effect. Amazing how much of an atmosphere you create.
fl333r no, its a good effect, you will earn half more money in energy credits, that was before spent in maintenance cost
@@java20422 Not to mention it also allows for more policing.
Where do you think they get the energy savings from? Usually you would expect to see a rise of energy usage in this scenario where policy makers are replaced with a power hungry computational solution., not the opposite. Really makes you think.
@@ErdeZ More efficient planning and execution without corruption, sketchy construction contracts that incentivise inefficient labour, multiple agendas and general human flaws like depression, greed and sorrow. Facebook is already creating a library of general human behavorism and coding neural networks to know how to manipulate you into being more receptive to products, so in some ways we are halfway there.
Its not mundane, remember the game extends the events in a bigger sight of things, this video show it to you to a more personal view.
I don't see her as a Luddite - I see her as very cautious and canny about the potential effects of technological advancement on society, sometimes unnecessarily but she sees that as worthwhile. She and Pravin are the only two voices on Planet to ask "Guys? Hey, guys? Could we maybe not go through with this until we've thought about whether it's a good idea, and maybe come up with some failsafes for human nature?"
Human nature is fundamentally flawed. The failsafe is not needed. If the system breaks, it is because humanity is flawed, not the system. The solution is to fix humanity.
~This comment was brought to you by The Univeristy of Planet
I mean the actual Luddites didn’t hate technology, they hated the way the technology of the era socially and economically harmed vulnerable people
@@ragoxdr6384 Okay, fair point.
@@nathangamble125 Bullpucky. Both are flawed - the system and humanity. The only practical, realistic solution that we have is to fix what we can out of them both.
Luddites weren't opposed or afraid of technology per se but working people whose livelihood they threatened.
AI at McDonald's taking orders at the drive-thru and somehow registering an order of 10 large decaf coffees when I only asked for a McChicken and medium fries.
"We must dissent"
It always got me the Christian Fundamentalist was the voice of reason in this game, for that matter, that the Godless tyrant was the figure of enlightenment.
@nothing to see here Christian Fundamentalists are not a voice of reason in real life.
@nothing to see here damn, that's some slick necroposting there my dude. The OP might be dead in real life for all we know.
@nothing to see here Religious fundamentalism in real life is little different than the unrestrained ambition of "godless tyrants", as both have lost their sense of humanity in favor of dogmatic visions.
@@thedude5294 You leave a scribble on a public wall, someone will come along and write underneath it. It's when you have to search forums and reply to something this old, that's a necro.
@@viperswhip fair enough.
I couldn't agree more. I suspect that the hatred of Miriam has more to do with how unceasingly aggressive she is in gameplay, personally.
She does make some fantastic points, and it's worth remembering that one of the reasons the Believers have weaker tech is that they aren't as willing to indulge in morally questionable research practices, not because of Luddism.
"Evil lurks in the datalinks as it lurked in the streets of yesteryear. But it was never the streets that were evil."
Hmm. Also. 'Go through, my children! The time of miracles is upon us. Let us cast off sin and walk together to the Garden of the Lord. With God's mercy we shall meet again on the other side.'
@@judgeees That one is a veeery late game tech if I recall. I think Psi Gates are about at the same level as the Universal Translator which ends up.. translating the monoliths around Planet as bible quotes. That would probably be the final click for Miriam to go even more crazy, originally balancing human theism and scripture to progress but now effectively given over justification that this is the promised land 100% and re-asserting reality now as a cosmic theatrical to her. Or that bible thesis is the main key to transcending the human body while the others see ascension as a science.
@@TheKnightOfSmite Agreed. Her belief is worrying though. I think every faction leader would have a disturbing justification to use a psi gate. Blind belief - you're warping reality to suit your value system and political dogma. Meanwhile, I'm sure Morgan would try to setup an amazing marketing campaign to push the tech. "While you were reading this, someone just travelled across the planet to another continent. Subscribe to the Morgan Now app for promotions and live access to our new VR app".
@@judgeees Perhaps I'm unaware. What are the implications of psi gate usage that would make a commercial application disturbing, as you say?
@@45calibermedic perhaps that the tech is not perfect, as zakarhovs rat could attest to. This is what Miriam says of the bulk matter transmitter secret project:
"And what of the immortal soul in such transactions? Can this machine transmit and reattach it as well? Or is it lost forever, leaving a soulless body to wander the world in despair?„~ Sister Miriam Godwinson,
"We Must Dissent""
Never have there been a more relevant video on UA-cam for the time we live in. We must dissent
"The Soulless sentience is the enemy of all" - The Warnings of the Cult Mechanicus
A direct analogy to "smart cities" which are coming.
"Whose streets?" scream the activists, shouting down the dissidents.
The response comes from a city that cleans its own streets.
Harmonious silence follows shortly thereafter.
I always thought it was interesting that while the AI plays the Believers as warmongering zealots, Miriam the character actually serves as a voice of reason/caution against technology run amok. Watching some of the secret project videos and reading tech descriptions in game you might start to realize that crazy as she and followers are? She's kinda got a point.
Hate to break it to you, but the only reason Miriam behaves that way in game is to help kickstart the never-ending faction wars.
Notice how empty the streets seem to be. Then think about how the self-aware colony decided that petty graffiti is worth vaporizing people for. Think about that for a second.
It's not the _vandalism_ that garners the punishment, it's that the vandals are harboring _ideas_ that run counter to the regime's agenda.
No, it's much worse when simple cringes are met with death. Who decides what is art and allowed, and what is artful but not allowed?
We don't REALLY know what nerve-stapling looks like, do we?
@@luisostasuc8135 As the previous comment mentioned, it's not the simple vandalism or art. It's the IDEAS that the faction powers consider dangerous. Imagine spraying painting: "Remember the USS Liberty" on a wall and then you get vaporized by a robot.
@@quietone610 It's in the wiki and it says super fine hair thin probes are inserted into your head and spine. They don't only administer pain though, they can deliver pleasure too. A psychotherapist would basically be conditioning you with these extreme stimuli to get you to be a compliant drone.
We must consent: 100 Sure-fire pickup lines of Sister Miriam Godwinson
I just cackled.
Zakharov, ''Allow me to taste the fruit,'' Morgan, ''Your resources exist to be consumed, and consumed they will be,'' Lal, ''Beware of she who will deny you access to her pu**y,'' Santiago, ''If we have traveled between the stars, why can we not insert the simplest of probes?'', Yang ''Learn to satisfy the crass demands of your flesh and my bone,'' Dierdrie ''A penis lies ahead of us, and behind. Have you had your fill?''
''Allow me to taste your fruit.'' Zakharov
''Your resources exist to be consumed, and consumed they will be.'' Morgan
''Learn to satisfy the crass demands of your flesh and my bone.'' Yang
''Beware of she who will deny you access to her p***y.'' Lal
''Observe the finger as it tends so carefully to my flower.'' Deirdre
''We have struggled under the limitations of a virgin body. Until now.'' Santiago
That sounds like one of the things that would turn up in the end-of-game rewards.
@@Bloodlyshiva You're right, it actually is. Good instincts.
Miriam's theology is the most underrated philosphical aspect of this game IMO. I feel you discount her at first because "lol crazy christian fundies in space lmao" but then she drops some big ol' philosophical quandaries on your ass as you get deeper into the game.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
@@hallerd but then you notice she gets more right than twice a day
@@n3tw0rk_n3k0 It's because, in Alpha Centauri as in real life, to quote Martin Luther King, "Our technological development has outrun our moral development. We have guided missiles and misguided men."
In other words, yes, you have Retroviral Engineering. Yes, you can create Genejack Factories, which make genetically-modified near-humans with reduced mental capacity, designed only for labor until they die.
But just because you COULD, doesn't mean that you SHOULD.
Funnily enough, that MLK quote was uses for a tech in Civilization 5 - another Sid Meier game.
Her big problem is her philosophy is: "Don't play God. I know God personally and He tells me what to do."
@@jonahfalcon1970 Well, you can reduce to straw opponent anyone, Morgan's philosophy can also be summarized as "money is good", and Shengji Yang's as "UNLIMITED POWAAAAH". In fact it's more nuanced. I'm a scientist myself, but what scientific progress means without moral one? Despite all goods of progress, people still can be divided as happy and unhappy, rich and poor, healthy and ill. Maybe - just maybe - the exact keys to real progress are not tied to science?
Its amazing how ahead of its time this game was, and how scary and right some of these are.
This game is still beyond us. I can't believe there are no games with this atmosphere.
I think largely cause most companies that would do this, do not want to paint such things in a negative light or show the problems with it. Since the rich and the elite rule, the last thing they want to do is fuel rebellion against them. It was from a time when gaming was not mainstream and there was alot of freedom in what game devs could do.
As Sister said, we must dissent.
When I found out that in China there's been a tech showcase where one can automatically do the payment by facial recognition I thought "Hey, neat"... then I remembered the social credit system, and this video came to mind.
@@DarkArtistKaiser
It is true.
Games were underground '90, Sid and Bryan are from that period.
They could release their imagination and creativity to max, without fear someone would be bothered, because they wouldn't-too small numbers saw game-regardless of copies sold.
Now, when games are mainstream with budgets bigger than music and movies combined, authors are carefull not to insult censors with dangerous thoughts.
Which is sad, but also inevitable in that cycle.
idk if you still use this account, today I read the news about MIcrosoft going to invests on self learning IA than can make other programs. Yes This game again was WAY too advanced in the future, it is 2023 right now.
"Stop right there, hooligan!"
"Who said that?"
"The city."
We must Dissent... and blog about it so the self aware colony can come after us.
Be sure to upload that selfie you took at the Antifa demonstration.
This kind of reminds me of Jack Williamson's novel "The Humanoids"
It's interesting how in the actual gameplay, Miriam is pure evil and will attack you for no reason at all, but in the game's canon storyline (NOT in the novels--that's completely different) she's the conscience of the factions, and she's actually pretty cool.
That's because at first her opposition seems pretty stupid. She seems to oppose even convenient technology. Then the technologies start getting creepier and start altering the limits of what is possible, and suddenly her warnings don't seem as stupid as they were before.
Aeder Liliaceae The developers were obviously biased against her (and the spartans), which made it even more fun how so many people ended up supporting her in the end.
Alter Eggo
That's a good point...Meier clearly seperated the right wing factions (Morgan, Miriam, Santiago) from the left wing factions (Dierdre, Lal, Yang, Zakharov), and clearly demonstrated which side he is on.
Fortunately, the political bias doesn't keep me from enjoying the game :D
Aeder Liliaceae She is pro-tech in one of the earlier quotes, High Chemistry I believe. But after that...not so much.
Fubar AlAkbar
On what ground you could Yang next to Dierdre, or Lal? lol.
I think all of them represent an unique philosophy, not current day politics. If you read the manual and "letter by the devs" the hope side they are on is Space travel.
I just noticed that there are silhouettes of people on the wall which is being cleaned.
+Tarik360 Hiroshima lovers style?
never seen it.
I was referring to atomic shadows
Looked it up, yeah kinda like that only that they are frightened, like they got shot by some kind of disintegratior or something.
I hadn't noticed....
H E L P M E P L E A S E
.....What have we done?
Secret Project is not a Orwellian dystopic hell controlled by an insane AI. On the contrary, it is a utopic society in which there is no problem, or struggle. Thinking otherwise is treason. Treason is punishable by death.
Friend Computer is a benevolent and helpful friend to all. Thinking otherwise is insubordination. Insubordination is treason. Treason is punishable by death.
@@KoishiVibin one man's dystopia is another man's utopia
@@Rifky809 you don't get the reference. It's to an old dystopian black-comedy RPG called Paranoia.
Say whatever you want about Sister Miriam, but she's got a point here.
that's what i love about SMAC--You start out and Miriam is the fundamentalist, but by the end she is the skeptic and Zakharov is the zealot, pursuing a singularity with quasi religious fervor
This game is so awesome. Since or before this one, I never played anything that made me ponder seriously about what will become of us as a people. Higher praise than that, i cannot give.
I can't believe I just re watched this 10 years later and just noticed the shadow of the disintegrated people. Holy crap this game was amazing.
Yeah it's like a learning AI controlling the security and maintenance duties of your colony. It helps law enforcement lessening the amount unhappy citizens and also halves energy maintenance costs of all facilities in all of your bases.
Oh and I forgot to mention the human shaped burn marks on the wall at the end. A very nice subtle touch.
-1000 social credits. Warning, social credit rating under loyalty coefficient minimum. You are charged with anti-civil activity level 1. Protection Units: prosecution code: duty, sword, operate.
It means "we must oppose". The people are probably trying to form a resistance against the self-aware AI which has become so radical in it's actions that it killed the citizen who made that graffiti.
... and now I finally noticed the human-shaped burn marks. Damn.
Oh, MUST we dissent?
I actually laughed out loud. Thank you.
yes
We must consent
This whole video lends credence to the interpretation that Miriam is not really a fundimentalist maniac, but instead manipulating her entire faction into following her by acting as such. She DOES have a PhD in Human Psyc, after all.
*So Miriam is a Bene Gesserit?*
Miriam is the real hero of the story, her faith is genuine, not fundamentalistic, but courageous and confident. Do not confuse her moral certainty with fanaticism.
Dissent you say? I got this here nerve stapler that may help you reconsider.
You know Sister Miriam has a point in her quote in this project since it's about Technology being used to make themselves look like Big Brother.
To me, the whole game was about Miriam going from "that crazy lady" to "the last sane human being left in this AI-ruled hellscape of scientific torture and totalitarian atrocities".
Alter Eggo Hey don't look at me - I never nerve stapled anyone!
Joe Cool I've rapped that game 4 times with Yang. It practically became a hobby.
MC Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang "Straight Outta Ocean Core"
Ethics is a meme
if there is a game like this today oh boy
Over the last three or so years, as AI has taken off and people have begun showing the first sparks of blind trust and devotion, I think upon this quote more and more often.
Online algorithms able to detect dissent as a form of spam and just nuking it without anyone noticing is proof the self aware colony foundations are thwre
We must Dissent. And though we may be destroyed, forgotten by the masses, an echo of that Dissent shall echo in the Datalinks.
The ideological balance in this game is truly astounding. Every faction can be defined as a "good guy" faction or a "bad guy" faction.
Ya, but Deidre releasing mind worms on Assassin's Redoubt is pretty bad.
@@viperswhip If you've named a city "Assassin's Redoubt", you have to reassess if you're the baddie or not. There are no saints on Planet but come on Corazon.
@@marsneedstowelsCorazon is a maniac. But worms killed everyone in that base, including children in their creches. Deirde is a maniacal eco-terrorist with just as little regard to life as Corazon.
The screens at the bowling alley when I get a strike:
Oooh. Their vaporized after images also got cleaned up. I didn't notice that the first time. Truly terrifying.
Its so evil and ominous, its a shame that part of what it does is just a really, REALLY good decrease in your upkeep that everybody wants, and it only part of it that seems evil is based your social model.
Then again, if you were in fact ALREADY a police state....
Friend computer just want to do right by you! Friend computer is our friend!
@@woodwyrm Saying anything is "our" is communism and therefore treason.
@IvanGroznyIV I once had a game where Miriam overhwhelmed Zakharov relatively early on, building a lead in tech and size that turned her into a superpower for most of the game. Gradually grinding her down and achieving superiority was one of the most difficult and satisfying gaming experiences I have ever achieved.
Second creepiest project animation in the game.
(First place goes, naturally, to the Dream Twister.)
The technocrats' wet dream.
In the official faction profiles, she's said to have a PHD in psychology. Guess who else has one? Starts with Y, ends with ang.
I think this is my favorite SMAC cut scene. So devilishly Orwellian!
SMAC is an absolute work of art. Any game design course that doesn't include it is a fucking fraud!
Tenemos que DISENTIR!
Crearemos entonces nuevos dioses para que rijan sobre nosotros? Que orgullosos nos hemos vuelto... y que CIEGOS.
TENEMOS QUE DISENTIR!
HOW DID THIS END UP ON MY RECCOMENDATIONS!?!?!?!?
i played Alpha centuari not too long ago and this shows up!
GOOGLE IS ALWAYS LISTENING! Maybe it will also become self-aware some day! :D
Both your google/youtube search and your emails(if w/gmail) are scanned to profile you and target adds and shit at you.
So no you're not being paranoid in case you were wondering.
@@matsku84 heha self-aware machines!!! nice
@@sisyphusrodahrockshout9326 thx for the feedback, the game is still sick playing it today, i play a lil horizon now and then tho
You must dissent.
An AI-driven bottle of ketchup that sprays ketchup on burgers. It gets confused and puts lines of ketchup all over the place.
She was right all along, we simply didn't notice at the time.
I bet Hobby Lobby gets a lot of business in Miriam's faction.
She had a lot of nuggets of goodness, like the bulk matter transmitter.
Miriam has some nasty penalties, but she also has great probe defense in a game where probes are incredibly strong and a whopping +25% combat bonus when on the attack. You can definitely still do quite well with the Believers.
I love how theres no real good or evil faction in AC. Having said that, its immensely satisfying crushing the spartans.
We Must Dissent
if you look closely, he never had a chance to complete the N and the last letter - T.
Oh I see, didn't notice the "false Gods" part until you pointed it out.
In my opinion, if a regime has to divert resources to keep its own population in line, then it's not very efficient. Even if the regime is advanced enough to use advanced machines to do the job (such as, say, a city-wide A.I.), those machines would require resources, such as energy, that could've been used elsewhere.
If I wanted to represent this secret project in a more optimistic manner, I'd probably have the Self-Aware Colony respond to disasters, such as traffic accidents or fires inside buildings, or more serious crimes, such as murder or arson, instead of petty criminal activities such as graffiti tagging.
ha, that's cool! I think I posited a similar idea in an essay I wrote in high school about 1984.
That's how it starts. But after all the fires are out and the accidents averted, the machine has already removed all of the rapists and murderers. Then it comes after ponzi schemers. Then tax evaders. Then graffitiers. Then jay walkers. Once the machine gets it in it's head to go after crime, it won't stop just because it's reached the level you're happy with. That's the point of the social commentary here. By contracting justice out to a machine, you lose the reason and mercy of a human mind. To the AI, a mandate to stamp out crime is an all or nothing proposition.
Joel Wurnig
Of course, this all depends upon how the AI is programmed, along with whether or not there are humans overseeing certain actions that the AI performs, ready to intervene if something goes wrong. There's also the possibility that the city could be managed not by one all-powerful AI, but by multiple smaller AIs with more limited capabilities, such as one that manages fires, and another that responds to police calls.
By the time of the self aware colony, humans are no longer programming the AI. The machines are responsible for creating new machines.
ShadowWolfTJC You make a good point. But these people aren't just spray painting some simple tag or artwork. They seem to be apart of a movement that goes against the self-aware colony. "We must dissent." The self-aware colony kills these seeds of dissent in the populace and removes all evidence of discomformity.
She's just as opposed to Democracies. Every faction leader hates those who don't take their favored social engineering choice.
This always appeared to me to have more layers than just "scary oppression". The phrasing "we must dissent" implies that it doesn't matter what is being dissented from, only that having a say matters. Here, humans lack control and even participation and resent this state of affairs. But in a self-aware, self-regulating colony, working with maximum efficiency in supervision, government and law enforcement, any dissent can only lead to worse conditions. Dissenters then are invariably people who have an inflated sense of worth and utter disregard for an optimized social order. They are bugs in the system. The question becomes whether mere self-determination is a Good that trumps wealth and justice as created and enforced by an agent outside of human control (even if initially instated by humans). Ironically, that is very similar to what Godwinsson actually demands herself of her followers; putting trust into a higher power and sacred scripture over the self-determined values of living, breathing people. They are not so different.
Yeah, I've often thought that Godwinson was an odd choice to make the voice lib for the self-aware colony as she is the one who has complete faith in a higher power. Her angle is that this artificial power is not the one that she believes to be the true power.
You've made a well thought out argument and it assumes that maximum efficiency in supervision in government and law enforcement is somehow a moral good. I have difficulty imagining that humans would not resent the state of affairs where they lack control, I have difficulty imagining that it wouldn't lead to many people feeling oppressed, as if they live in north korea, wanting to either flee or change this maximum efficiency government. Those who look at fellow humans as bugs in a system have made a fatal error of moral judgement: to put ideas before human life. You might as well start scientific experiments on live humans immediately, perhaps on living prisoners as china of old used to do, because that's only a logical extension of such an extreme collectivist position.
I think Godwinson is a good choice, hypocrisy and fundamentalism go hand in hand.
Others can not play god, it only ends in folly.. But obviously the chosen hear the word of God so they are not 'playing God' but acting upon his will.
I think it adds a fascinating subtext to the quote.
Try to see the irony under Miriam's point of view. She believes in an almigthy God superior to everything human or human-made. And then, these so called "logical" and "rational scientists" who deny him and claim to be "free" of the delusion of religion end creating artificial, human-made "false gods" to rule over them in place of the real one. So instead of keeping that freedom, they instead create machines and let their own creations to rule over them in place of God. So I imagine that for Miriam, that mut be facepalming to her: Instead of choosing under her view the real and almighty God to be their protector, they decide instead to become servants of lesser beings.
Also, this must remind her a lot about the Old Testament when the ancient Israelites where in conflict with their neighbors which for them, they revered mute and powerless idols made of stone or wood. While their God had no shape, so it was blasphemous to give him one while he has none. For Miriam, it must be like that times can change, but people never does. Now those Self-Aware Colonies are the new replacement of those old gods and idols of yore.
"But in a self-aware, self-regulating colony, working with maximum efficiency in supervision, government and law enforcement, any dissent can only lead to worse conditions."
Why could dissent not lead to better conditions? Which conditions are to be considered "worse" or "better" - and from what determinant?
0:35 if you hear that noise, so did Toby Fox
Jdtheepic that was on the tip of my tongue.
Best, creepiest one.
@Adventchild8 You only see the cutscenes if you have the disc in the drive while playing the game, or if you selected the "complete" installation when you installed the game.
Of course, several of the cracked/pirate versions of the game don't come with cutscenes, so...
It is in the Audio/Video Prefs under the game menu.
Just hit Control-i while in the game.
Then check mark the "Secret Project Movies" option.
How is the private/public distinction meaningful in that respect? "A person can speak all they like, but if William Randolph Hearst can just buy the newspapers, the radio, the tv, and the internet, how can it matter?"
Looks like a nice system
man, i miss some hard scifi on my games.
@LividImp
His psych profile stated that his world view is "let the market decide." so I think that means he doesn't get bothered by people disagreeing with him (unlike Yang or Miriam). But he did have one quote in which he talked about nerve stapling two workers. So perhaps you are right.
Australia 2022?
Germany too...
World 2022
U.K. is pretty much here, U.S. is quickly trying to do the same thing, the whole western would is just fucked.
Chankljp I do not remember everything he said in his quotes, but I do not remember anything about personal freedoms, only economic freedoms.
Wow, I haven't had a discussion like this since the good old days on Apolyton. I used to go by the handle of "Livid_Imp" or "LividImp" there too if there are any Apolytoners here.
ʷᵉ ᵐᵘˢᵗ ᵈᶦˢˢᵉᶰᵗ
@LividImp
True. When I wrote that I meant if you are role playing using the personality of CEO Morgan based on his quotes and his psy profile (you can find it at the game's home page).
Usually Miriam pisses me off, but on this issue i do agree with her... Well in a way i remember in the book version the way they dissented was having saboteurs (forget what they are called in the game, release nerve gas into the major bases of every faction).
An effective but i'd say slightly immoral form of dissent.
Hard to tell with the video quality and somebody may have already mentioned it, but does the left eye of the statue open at 0:11? It made me think maybe there's a camera hidden in it, watching.
Dude it did! That was a good catch!
The asmr is quite nice actually
the Lottery in Babylon doesn't just hand out rewards
In the presence of a sentient life, semi-sentent life just can't seem to make the jump. This is why we are Earth's only sentient species.
Very insightful. I like!
SMAC is where religious fundamentalists are the voice of reason and humanity in the face of the dystopian endgame tech!
We do, however, have a self-aware colony. It's called social media. It does not quite have the teeth the self-aware colony here has, but it can be psychologically draining, as well as damaging.
Nonsense.
Not even close...
Look up the boy who was arrested for joking with his friends about blowing up a school. People have lost their jobs, their sense of being, and their freedom from interacting with others online.
I agree but we're the A.I in this case, purging the non-conformers.
EvilMagnitude is correct, and there's nothing quite like a momentum game using the Believers. If you use your probes right, your army is an unstoppable juggernaut.
That said, you're probably right about the devs and fundamentalism. During this period they had a "fundamentalist" form of government in both Civ2 and SMAC. By Civ3, Fundamentalism had been cut from the list, and religion was introduced as a game mechanic in Civ4.
Machines that are more aware than humans are? Wow, I guess that's evolution for you.
Yeah, Miriam gets the short end of the stick though. She's even saddled with a penalty to planet rating that wasn't in the manual, in addition to the crippling -20% to science. The devs must have been ambivalent about environmentalists, capitalists, gun nuts etc. but they plainly loathed fundamentalists!
it is a choice will you sacrefice what is right for efficency ?
Have you seen the vid for "Clinical Immortality"? That's pretty much the freakiest one for me.
Cool. Thanks for teaching me a new word. :D
Gariffiti in the walls? To the recycling pods you two.
@IvanGroznyIV it's a videogame version of Sarah Palin...
I remember when I was a kid and the idea of an AI spying on your every action was still science fiction and not just science.
I'm not sure what you set out to prove here, but it would appear that the theorem you've succeeded in demonstrating is "I suck at math".
We Must Dessent
Strictly, it means to disagree. Like a Supreme Court's dissenting opinion. Dissent in the context of Miriam's writings means to rebel. Should I ever lead a rebellion, I'm stealing that phrase. :)
Nice video, those saboteurs need to work on their moves better next time they face, the SE Colony :D
Friend Computer is always watching. Friend Computer is always listening.......
Those "contradictions" come from crude approximations.
I always thought Miriam and Zakharov were the only 2 in the game who didn't become monsters, although Zakharov mindraped himself.
True, but miriam was already a monster from the get go, so there's that.
Sister Miriam Godwinson is a fucking irritating faction and one I am always glad to wipe out
Morgan is the only faction that allows true economic freedom no matter what. The reason his bases are so small his because he spends more resources on each inhabitant than all the rest of the leaders.
By far his society would be the best to live in.
@Nick Gar:
Only if you're one of the rich at the top. A completely free market is completely free of regulations - and therefore free of any compulsion to abide by ethics.
Think unchallengeable monopolies. Think not having to test your new products to see if they're safe before selling them. Think of the media being owned entirely by a corporation who won't ever report anything bad on themselves.
It's the absolute ideal of capitalism. You either live at the top like a king, or at the bottom like a bug.
If a monopoly is unchallengeable is that already an issue on its own? If you do not test your new products to see if they are safe before selling them, you are not going to be selling them. Not for very long either. Think of the media being owned by a corporation who have an actual interest in journalism, and are not fed by the government such as it is the case in welfare states.
It's the absolute ideal of capitalism. By far his society would be the best to live in.
Order can be acheived easily with planet busters.
I love these movie clips, they provide a degree of vindication... not all conservative believers are absolute loons.
Man, I could do with one of those things for cleaning dirt off my walls.
Now that you mention it... me neither :o!
That we must not accept this sort of thing any longer? It's also the title of a book by Miriam Godwinson, the leader of the Believers in the Alpha Centauri universe, so presumably these would-be dissenters are Believer sympathisers.
Not really. I mean, wouldn't it depend on who's building the project? Just because one faction uses the AI to exterminate dissenters, doesn't mean it has to be used that way. The projects bonuses seem to reflect this.
@penguindiverz
Flying cars would make DUI a capital offense, however.
@IvanGroznyIV
oh frak yes.
Meanwhile in China...