The way this 3D printed violin is printed and segmented, the normal resonating chamber is so blocked you'll never get a really good sound out of it. If you printed the body in 1 piece using vase mode, with perhaps some built-in longitudinal reinforcements and a full-size neck, it would sound a LOT better. Wood absorbs sound better than plastic, but with the Strad it has been losing moisture for so long the wood fibers have become "harder," so the tone is richer and the volume is louder. In fact, that Strad would have sounded a lot different when it was brand new than it does now. The plastic, on the other hand, is a hard surface that will absolutely resonate if built properly. In fact, you could use higher-grade filaments, including carbon fiber, through the 3D printer to create an even more rigid body. Then just sand the back of the neck, fix a proper bridge and strings, and I think you'd be surprised by the result.
absolutely! i've builded some blockflutes from pvc and pp plastic tubes and it sounds indistinguishable from wooden one. So yeah, it is just bad violin design
lol that’s an exaggeration for sure. I’m not nearly as good as Ray but there’s no way I’m trading the sound I make on my 4k violin with the sound Ray made on that 3d printed trainer.
I mean.. bridges are very sturdy, they don't break too often, and when you replace strings you don't replace the bridge. Also, its exceedingly rare for a violinist to make and adjustment to the shape of their bridge themselves. Usually if need an adjustment or a new bridge, you will pay a luthier to carve the bridge for you. Sooooo it might be surprising to folks but violinists don't need to interact with the geomtry of the bridge to much. The only time its a 'thing' is if you feel the action (distance between strings and fingerboard) is wrong, and again in that case, you're going to luthier. Even if you bought a bridge, they don't come carved and fitted to work with your instrument... Soooo again, a violinist doesn't often have to interact with the bridge. In fact, you want to AVOID messing with it, because removing the bridge can remove enough pressure from the face plate of the instrument and can cause the sound peg to fall. If that falls then you probably need to go to a luthier because most violinists don't keep the tool handy needed to reseat the peg and without it being in place the instrument is at EXTREME risk of splitting itself in half. Sooooooooooooooooooo all that to say, like.. its fine. I wouldn't make fun of him.
@@adammiller9029 If your eyes are ever on your contact point (which they should be quite often), you can't help but spend many hours with the bridge in your field of view. You don't have to interact with it. Do you play?
@@aredesuyo I spend a lot of time with my hands and eyes on my computer keyboard (professional software engineer), yet I can't tell you where all the keys are - I just hit them automatically - muscle memory. I can totally understand why Ray doesn't know which way around the bridge sits - it's one of the few things about the bridge that he never adjusts himself.
Watching this video brings back memories. When my daughter began learning the violin, I started too and practiced with her for six months using a 3D-printed violin. That violin had a unique design, featuring a one-piece body, guitar tuning pegs, and a full-sized neck. At the time, the sound was acceptable to me. Eventually, due to its heavy weight, I bought a 4/4 violin but still kept the 3D-printed one. I hope that one day, I may hear my daughter play it again.
@@jordanbrowne7417 he said/she said. My point was that the sound of this instrument and the word "nice" should not be in the same sentence at all. Because then I get an impression that it sounds not like a real thing but still quite nice. But it does not sound nice at all even in the hands of a master. In my hands it would sound just horrible. See where am I getting at?
With it being an open-source model, I'm sure there are plenty of edits, changes, and customisations you could add that would vastly improve the quality and sound of the instrument. For example, you could change the filiment material, wall thickness, size of the tone holes or even coat the inside of the body materials like wood, foam, or rubber that I'm sure would drastically alter how it plays and sounds. It being 3d-printed is just a starting point for those with the desire and skills to fully customise their instrument to do so.
Would be interesting to see what a replacing the bridge with a wooden one would make as a difference. All serious electric string instruments also use wooden bridges.
yes but electric guitars have pickups for sound, so the bridge part of the guit is not involved in the sound itself. On electric (bowed) string instrument the bridge transfers the sound to the pickup mechansim, so the bridge is still a very important part of the sound of the instrument.
@@KwadSkwad yeah the bridge of a guitar has to serve the role that the tailpiece is doing on a bowed string instrument. The tailpiece is also normally made of plastic or similar hard materials.
definitely the sound would be brighter with a wooden bridge, but as many people say, the problem is that the body was made in parts and that prevents it from creating a proper resonance, plus the “F” are too small, among several other problems of construction of the instrument.
most consumer grade 3d printers aren't going to have a build volume big enough to print the body in one piece. The long size of the neck is 300mm and the long side of the body is 360mm. Sure something like a neptune max or an SR racer could do it, but most people are going to have a Bamboo or a Prusa clone, which have build volumes of ~250mm^3, depending on specific model.
Honestly, you have to find out its strengths, as with all things. I was genuinely impressed when he played the Bach part, that was such a unique sound and I love how this plastic violin had a way of amplifying particular characteristics of baroque music apparently! It's wonderful to hear someone so skilled play it and get to know it as an instrument. Really cool video!!! I like trying things that are so unusual. 😊💚🎻
@Ray Chen, I create 3d printed violin designs! I would be happy to ship you a full kit. 3d printed violins cannot compete with the volume of a wooden instrument, so I make acoustic/electric designs. Although, I will guarantee that the acoustic sound and volume of my violins is a league above the Hovalin.
Hovalin is free, that’s a nice base. I think there need to have fewer parts in the trunk, because the sound can’t resonnate at all in this. If you could have this as a bottom+top plates, and sides as slices that support those plates, while keeping the head and central carbon fiber support, it could sound better. Hope your (@op) are more refined!
@@gweltazlemartret6760 Agreed, you'd have to have the bottom/Top plates, and then either glue them together, or have them clip together or something. I'm still honestly surprised, and quite happy, at how well this FREE 3D printed Violin did! Great lil practice Violin for a beginner =3
I have printed 4 of these now and the mono-body single print sounds the best. The more you can print as one piece the better the plastic vibrates...as much as it can vibrate.
Just a crazy idea: it might improve if the parts are glued together to force better transmission of the sound waves. I'm just not sure whether contact glue or CA glue would be better - the former is more resistant to vibration, the latter is stiffer and should have better transmission - question is for how long until it breaks.
@@KonradTheWizzard 3D printing enthusiast here, I am no expert on musical instruments, but in 3D printing we have an adhesive called Gloop that forms a chemical bond by melting 2 like plastics together. Maybe that's what you are looking for.
@@Luptonium I recently (few weeks ago) started my own 3D printing journey. I love it! I checked "3Dgloop" out and must say: this stuff is dangerous! I found their material safety sheets and neither the style of those sheets, nor the contents were reassuring. If I saw something like this in my day job in industry, I would run away. Their web site is full of hot air with only very little real content. The basic idea behind "gloop" is to use a solvent to partially melt the plastic and then stick the parts together. This is a good idea - it avoids adding more materials and yields a more homogeneous result if done correctly. It's the way they go about it: the major component of gloop is a rather dangerous solvent, when safer and better alternatives are available. This solvent (methylene chloride) is prohibited in several industrial(!!) applications because of its toxicity. Why you would use it in a new product is beyond my understanding. They keep seemingly important additives secret, which kind of contradicts the spirit of sharing that is so common in the 3D printing community. In short: use ethyl acetate for PLA and PETG, use acetone for ABS. Both are much safer than gloop. It may be a bit harder to apply evenly, but the "gloop" stuff scares me. They seem to lack the necessary respect for their materials and for the community.
It was fun to see how excited Ray got once he finished putting the violin together, but I loved his huge laugh after testing it out by playing the opening bars of the Brahms Concerto! Next his analysis of the lack of resonant sounds due to all the plastic was spot on! Great video, Ray!
It's always refreshing to see people who are at the pinnacle of their field still being so accessible/approachable. I believe having fun with your passion is at the root of achieving such great success in it. :)
I really liked watching you be really happy - delving and exploring into new innovations. This was probably the most refreshing video on this channel - not just for you, but me too. I really truly had so much of a great time watching this - like you wouldn't believe.
Maybe a re-design needed to make the middle section of the body as large as possible so that its upper and lower surfaces have more freedom to resonate.
Couple of notes: Hovalin recommends printing the body in one whole piece to enhance resonance and preserve strength, as expected. They do come with the multi-part print scheme, as seen, but they say on their website for best results, to print the body in a single piece. They also recommend multiple sanding passes before final assembly to enhance part adhesion and reduce disruption from print lines.
The interesting aspect of 3d printing a violin or anything with a resonance chamber, to me, is that you can more easily manipulate/ change the way sound/vibrations travel within the instrument. Seems like there is real potential to test and/or change how the instrument sounds. Then, you can implement those findings using materials (i.e., wood) to fine tune the best possible sound output. This would make for a great "Will It" series, that ends with finding an expert violin craftsman that can build the best results to see if it makes the instrument better overall
8:17 you can't but I can, if you can make it for less than a given instrument and meet or exceed it's sound quality then it's better, not to mention you can infinitely tweak the sound by using different materials and infill ratios.
I really like the app that you showed us. It's really cool - it 10000000% takes the isolation and lack of comparisons out of practicing, to really know what good is and be inspired to push to new heights. I wish I had this app back when I played musical instruments, but I could imagine this in the future. I'll definitely keep it in mind if not recommend it to others! I love it more than a lot - this is one of the most favorite of apps to date for me!!!
ooo interesting project....was actually thinking about how a 3D printed violin would be like so I'm glad you experimented and made this!! Would love to hear a luthier's perspective on this as well!
Hey I'm an engineer who specializes in prototypes. I can see a few modifications to this print that would vastly improve it's performance (at least I would think they would, I'm not a musician). First is the body attachments. If you are putting a rod through the body anyway why not use that for the resonance, and modify the dovetails to allow more acoustics. Second I would post process the entire outside smooth and coat it with a clear coat of resin. This may impact the acoustics but overall would help the feel, and it would definitely make the bridge sound better. Third I would use more solid attachmetns for the bridge. A huge loss in acoustics is in any mechanical vibrations that can be had between parts, making them more secure will make it less muted. Lastly, and this would take a good amount of trial and error to fix the finger placements like you were saying. Overall this looks like you were just playing on an unfinished print. I would be interested to see if you finished the process if it sounded any better. I'd love to take a crack at it myself but I don't have any violin players near me to try it with.
7:02 over generalization id say, there are hundreds of materials/blends to pick not to mention you can infinitely tweak the sound of a single material by adjusting walls, infill type, infill density and so many other things you can't do with wood. Plus this thing sounds pretty dang good as is
Hi Ray, just wanted to reach out and say thank you for the concert in Eberbach recently. I particularly loved your version of the Piazolla piece and the atmosphere of the location! Met some of your other followers, too, you have a great community! Keep it up!
Imagine, this kind of 3D printed Violin with a normal E-Violin Pickup in an actual Wood-Bridge would actually work. Just some tuning on the neck like sanding and youre good to go. for a First Violin it would be very fun. You could play outside in rain too ig.
Feel like the resonance issue is more about the gaps between the pieces rather than the material. I’d be interested to see a difference with the body gaps filled and/or welded
A few years back I printed/assembled a violin. Upper deck, back panel, sides and neck. It wasn't customized for printing, it was a PLA copy of an actual violin. Sounded really bad, so I took it to a Lutheir. He set a proper sound-post and made a bridge, both from proper sound-wood. Sounded a lot better for nearly two days, then the upper deck collapsed under the weight of the bridge.
imagine if 3d printing musical instruments - and their practice sessions - were integrated into the app - how far we can take this 3d development!!! I'm stoked!
I had a smile on my face the whole time. It seems to be an enduring truth that geniuses are good at any instrument. Maestro Ray's skills are truly amazing, even with a 3D printed violin!👍🏻✨👑🎻💎🌞🌅👼🏻🪽💖
Hello Ray, I'm actually pretty surprised that this violin did better than most wood violins on your Amazon violin review, I'm also glad I'm not the only one who feels sentimental about their violin ❤.
Use bondo and cover the surface with it and sand it down. It should make it sound better btw by physically binding the shell parts to each other. Should actually start to resonate
I think if you make it out of PLA it's going to slowly bend over time if you keep the strings under tension. might be intersting to print using a few harder polymers to improve the sound and durability. Adding this to my list of things to print! My son and I are both learning and playing together right now for the last 1.5 years!
In contrast, people are starting to use 3d printed baroque woodwind replicas in performance. There was a big international project and conference presenting the findings a couple of years ago. So the technology is getting there, it just depends how the specific instrument produces sound.
Woodwinds have historically been made out of so many different materials that it's hard to call anything "wrong", even modern materials as they may well emulate the good qualities of natural materials while not being as prone to damage or decay. Plastic clarinets have been around for half a century, and they sound as good as the quality level they're made to. POM (Delrin) in particular is actually a really good material for making wind instruments because it both can be 3D printed, _and_ worked on a lathe or mill like a metal or wood piece. It also has a thermal conductivity similar to that of wood, so it doesn't feel "cold" like metal. If I were to ever get serious about making saxophone mouthpieces, POM would be my material of choice.
This is so interesting. The design of the violin assembly may need to be redesigned. The traditional violin body is empty (its a chamber) whereas the 3d printed version has it filled with the assembly (fastening) structure.
Cool! You might want to try the Modular Fiddle. It seems to be constructed more like a regular violin with the body as one part, so the resonating surface and air cavity aren’t split up.
They should have added some cheap piezo pickup to this violin, that would completely change the overall impression. Connect it to some cheap smaller amp, and I believe you would get more than acceptable sound for beginners.
Woodfill filament or carbon fiber filament would add to the resonance . So would a conventional bridge . I've been printing the humble Ukele out of wood fill ... tested against a wooden ukele , recorded you can't tell the difference. Love to see you print another out of woodfill or carbon .
I think the tinkerable aspect is what makes this special. You can modify it to have longer fingerboard, have 5-6 strings, make it an electric instrument etc.
If it was printed in 3 pieces top botom, and the ring like structure, this would open up the chamber internally. Also the support structure inside that slots together being eliminated would allow the body to resonate better. Also coating the inside with resin and or fiberglas would brighten the sound significantly. This is a technique often used with speakers. Also the neck could be printed using foaming resin to lighten it.
Printing a one-piece body is definitely better, but requires a large printer. For the 3-piece body I suggest gluing the body pieces together with a plastic-bonding glue, like for use in wargaming miniatures (I use Citadel glue). You can definitely feel the violin body vibrate, especially on the low notes. There's also variations of the Hovalin that have a different bridge, and even shoulder and chin supports.
I think the main problem is that the body is made of 3 parts. The front plate needs to be uninterrupted to vibrate as one. And the walls inside the resonance chamber stiffen the whole construction. Also it looks like the bridge is sitting directly on the seam between two parts. Directly ontop of one of those walls. It basically cant transmit the vibrations into the resonance chamber effectively. What you reall want is a "membrane" of plastic. Not a ridgid statue of a violin. I think i would try to print the outer rim in several pieces and the top and bottom shells i would maybe attempt to "peel"/divide into 2 or moe very thin layers and have the seams run through different places. Then assemble the different layers by glueing the edges lightly just so its together. Then covereing the whole surface in glue and place one layer on top of the other. I hope you understand what i mean. Basically have one layer be held together by the other and vise versa.
It’s always nice that you give things like this and Amazon violins an actual chance rather than going in being like I know this will be awful because of my preconceived notions. You’re the only expert whose opinion I trust in these matters
This is tempting to at least download and look at the files. I have the parts to put together regular violin if I busted out the body of one and I have a 3d printer. I am thinking though, if it was all open area in the body, not the sections, and coat the inside with something along with revise and tune the infill for acoustics, you could have a better sounding violin, potentially a superior sounding one if done right. The bridge from mainstream ones are disposable, no need to 3d print one, the wood it's made of may enhance the sound too.
Hi Ray, Yes, The Tonic App does in fact keep me practicing more regularly and longer as well. There are lots of other musicians on there, some are truly amazing (real virtuoso talent) and others help me feel hopeful for my own playing.
You could also figure out a way to add either a magnetic, or piezoelectric pickup system to the 3D printed violin, doing so would overcome the resonance issues.
It's got a massive block of plastic on the inside which connects the top and back together where the soundpost would normally be. The weak sound is due to the considerably high density of the plastic which doesn't resonate like natural wood that's been chosen and properly shaped to suit its purpose.
Its an intersting toy. I feel like If i were 3d printing it i would approache it differenty if i remember the body is about 356mm for a full size violin so in the right orientation I feel like it should be possilbe to print it in one piece without the neck on something like the p1p which would drastically improve the sound quality. IF you are using non 3d printed you might as well source a good bridge and fretboard. I also feel like different plastics would have different sounds.
I don't know a single thing about violins, but maybe the problem with resonnance of the whole instrument is that the three parts of the body walls are full. I would've designed the interior of the body parts hollow, with sustain columns. There, the three parts aren't making a whole internal cavity. Not sure if i explained myself correctly.
You have to try from someone that has experience with 3d printing or a bigger printer in order to print it as one piece. Because obviously when it's in pieces the sound probably escapes through the loose "connected" points. Another suggestion is to maybe use a wooden bridge. I'm pretty sure plastic bridges don't work well even in regular violins. This would explain the muffled sound. If you search on YB there are definitely creators who seemingly have made good 3d printed violins. I would really love to see you trying one from them to really prove once and for all if the 3d violins really suck. I would swear I've heard better ones from other ybers. But who knows it may be edited to make it sound better. I agree the one you made sounds horrible (obviously you play the best). More content like this with 3d printed violin stuff please. Most people who do 3d printing don't know violin as well as you do in order to test.
Ну вы даете :))). Как можно было в этом ошибиться?! Мой сын окон ил первый класс скрипки, я - мама - знаю о строении скрипки все, меняю струны, могу разобрать и собрать ее, настраиваю строй :)). Вы прекрасно играете ;).
![Is this Rosin or Candy? [DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/l5R5S_T8bFc/mqdefault.jpg)
The way this 3D printed violin is printed and segmented, the normal resonating chamber is so blocked you'll never get a really good sound out of it. If you printed the body in 1 piece using vase mode, with perhaps some built-in longitudinal reinforcements and a full-size neck, it would sound a LOT better. Wood absorbs sound better than plastic, but with the Strad it has been losing moisture for so long the wood fibers have become "harder," so the tone is richer and the volume is louder. In fact, that Strad would have sounded a lot different when it was brand new than it does now. The plastic, on the other hand, is a hard surface that will absolutely resonate if built properly. In fact, you could use higher-grade filaments, including carbon fiber, through the 3D printer to create an even more rigid body. Then just sand the back of the neck, fix a proper bridge and strings, and I think you'd be surprised by the result.
i think glue fixed body may sound better than this too instead of slide fix
@@mu9600 - I agree. It would probably help a great deal.
absolutely! i've builded some blockflutes from pvc and pp plastic tubes and it sounds indistinguishable from wooden one. So yeah, it is just bad violin design
it would be intresting to see what it sounded like printed with pla carbon fiber or petg carbonfiber if that would make a diference
Ray makes even a 3D printed violin sound like its worth millions
you take that one, i'll take the strad
I think Ray is great, but this is too much of an exaggeration 😂
lol that’s an exaggeration for sure. I’m not nearly as good as Ray but there’s no way I’m trading the sound I make on my 4k violin with the sound Ray made on that 3d printed trainer.
No, sorry
It sounds terrible, but you can tell he's good
You've spent your whole life with a violin bridge right in front of your face, and you don't remember that the E side is lower. I'm dying right now 🤣🤣
That's actually completely normal
I mean.. bridges are very sturdy, they don't break too often, and when you replace strings you don't replace the bridge. Also, its exceedingly rare for a violinist to make and adjustment to the shape of their bridge themselves. Usually if need an adjustment or a new bridge, you will pay a luthier to carve the bridge for you. Sooooo it might be surprising to folks but violinists don't need to interact with the geomtry of the bridge to much. The only time its a 'thing' is if you feel the action (distance between strings and fingerboard) is wrong, and again in that case, you're going to luthier. Even if you bought a bridge, they don't come carved and fitted to work with your instrument... Soooo again, a violinist doesn't often have to interact with the bridge. In fact, you want to AVOID messing with it, because removing the bridge can remove enough pressure from the face plate of the instrument and can cause the sound peg to fall. If that falls then you probably need to go to a luthier because most violinists don't keep the tool handy needed to reseat the peg and without it being in place the instrument is at EXTREME risk of splitting itself in half.
Sooooooooooooooooooo all that to say, like.. its fine. I wouldn't make fun of him.
@@adammiller9029 If your eyes are ever on your contact point (which they should be quite often), you can't help but spend many hours with the bridge in your field of view. You don't have to interact with it. Do you play?
I confuse this on my cello every time I restring. 😂
@@aredesuyo I spend a lot of time with my hands and eyes on my computer keyboard (professional software engineer), yet I can't tell you where all the keys are - I just hit them automatically - muscle memory. I can totally understand why Ray doesn't know which way around the bridge sits - it's one of the few things about the bridge that he never adjusts himself.
If you can build a violin slowly, you can print a violin quickly.
He made a sacreligious violin sound amazing, amazing!!!
coffee ALL OVER MY LAPTOP. ty.
@@mighty_dragon4809 sAcrElIgIoUs
i feel like the softer sound would be very appreciated by family members of beginner violinists 🤣
Why doesn't he extend the fingerboard. You can also use a real bridge and see if it sounds different.
Watching this video brings back memories. When my daughter began learning the violin, I started too and practiced with her for six months using a 3D-printed violin. That violin had a unique design, featuring a one-piece body, guitar tuning pegs, and a full-sized neck. At the time, the sound was acceptable to me. Eventually, due to its heavy weight, I bought a 4/4 violin but still kept the 3D-printed one. I hope that one day, I may hear my daughter play it again.
It sounds pretty nice for being made out of plastic. I'm impressed!
No, it does not sound nice at all. Ray could get some interesting ideas out of this instrument though
@@sruththine3689 I said nice for being made out of plastic. I was expecting it to sound even worse.
@@sruththine3689 read it again he said "for being made out of plastic"
@@jordanbrowne7417 he said/she said. My point was that the sound of this instrument and the word "nice" should not be in the same sentence at all. Because then I get an impression that it sounds not like a real thing but still quite nice. But it does not sound nice at all even in the hands of a master. In my hands it would sound just horrible. See where am I getting at?
@@sruththine3689for being made of plastic
With it being an open-source model, I'm sure there are plenty of edits, changes, and customisations you could add that would vastly improve the quality and sound of the instrument. For example, you could change the filiment material, wall thickness, size of the tone holes or even coat the inside of the body materials like wood, foam, or rubber that I'm sure would drastically alter how it plays and sounds.
It being 3d-printed is just a starting point for those with the desire and skills to fully customise their instrument to do so.
Would be interesting to see what a replacing the bridge with a wooden one would make as a difference. All serious electric string instruments also use wooden bridges.
Never seen an electric guitar with a wooden bridge honestly
yes but electric guitars have pickups for sound, so the bridge part of the guit is not involved in the sound itself. On electric (bowed) string instrument the bridge transfers the sound to the pickup mechansim, so the bridge is still a very important part of the sound of the instrument.
@@plaisthos many acoustic guitars use bone or hard plastic, not wood, at the bridge.
@@KwadSkwad yeah the bridge of a guitar has to serve the role that the tailpiece is doing on a bowed string instrument. The tailpiece is also normally made of plastic or similar hard materials.
definitely the sound would be brighter with a wooden bridge, but as many people say, the problem is that the body was made in parts and that prevents it from creating a proper resonance, plus the “F” are too small, among several other problems of construction of the instrument.
Print it in one solid piece. You’ll be really surprised how much better it sounds.
most consumer grade 3d printers aren't going to have a build volume big enough to print the body in one piece. The long size of the neck is 300mm and the long side of the body is 360mm. Sure something like a neptune max or an SR racer could do it, but most people are going to have a Bamboo or a Prusa clone, which have build volumes of ~250mm^3, depending on specific model.
Glue it together would do the same
The divided chambers are killing the resonance
@@JeffDeLamater creality cr 10 series
@@reddeadranglers8301 If i'm going CR series, I'm going with the CR-30.
It sounded incredible for the cost
ray chen
what cost.. it was free 😭😭
@@Cat-kb7tp free is cost zero 😁
@@rautibo ahhahaa
It wasnt free. Filament costs money
Honestly, you have to find out its strengths, as with all things. I was genuinely impressed when he played the Bach part, that was such a unique sound and I love how this plastic violin had a way of amplifying particular characteristics of baroque music apparently! It's wonderful to hear someone so skilled play it and get to know it as an instrument. Really cool video!!! I like trying things that are so unusual. 😊💚🎻
That sounded way better than I was expecting!
@Ray Chen, I create 3d printed violin designs! I would be happy to ship you a full kit. 3d printed violins cannot compete with the volume of a wooden instrument, so I make acoustic/electric designs. Although, I will guarantee that the acoustic sound and volume of my violins is a league above the Hovalin.
Man, that's super cool!!
Hovalin is free, that’s a nice base.
I think there need to have fewer parts in the trunk, because the sound can’t resonnate at all in this.
If you could have this as a bottom+top plates, and sides as slices that support those plates, while keeping the head and central carbon fiber support, it could sound better.
Hope your (@op) are more refined!
@@gweltazlemartret6760 Agreed, you'd have to have the bottom/Top plates, and then either glue them together, or have them clip together or something. I'm still honestly surprised, and quite happy, at how well this FREE 3D printed Violin did! Great lil practice Violin for a beginner =3
@@RoxyLuffer In fact, it sounding less loud is a plus as a practice violin for a beginner, it spares the family
I have printed 4 of these now and the mono-body single print sounds the best. The more you can print as one piece the better the plastic vibrates...as much as it can vibrate.
Just a crazy idea: it might improve if the parts are glued together to force better transmission of the sound waves. I'm just not sure whether contact glue or CA glue would be better - the former is more resistant to vibration, the latter is stiffer and should have better transmission - question is for how long until it breaks.
@@KonradTheWizzard 3D printing enthusiast here, I am no expert on musical instruments, but in 3D printing we have an adhesive called Gloop that forms a chemical bond by melting 2 like plastics together. Maybe that's what you are looking for.
@@Luptonium I recently (few weeks ago) started my own 3D printing journey. I love it!
I checked "3Dgloop" out and must say: this stuff is dangerous! I found their material safety sheets and neither the style of those sheets, nor the contents were reassuring. If I saw something like this in my day job in industry, I would run away. Their web site is full of hot air with only very little real content.
The basic idea behind "gloop" is to use a solvent to partially melt the plastic and then stick the parts together. This is a good idea - it avoids adding more materials and yields a more homogeneous result if done correctly.
It's the way they go about it: the major component of gloop is a rather dangerous solvent, when safer and better alternatives are available. This solvent (methylene chloride) is prohibited in several industrial(!!) applications because of its toxicity. Why you would use it in a new product is beyond my understanding. They keep seemingly important additives secret, which kind of contradicts the spirit of sharing that is so common in the 3D printing community.
In short: use ethyl acetate for PLA and PETG, use acetone for ABS. Both are much safer than gloop. It may be a bit harder to apply evenly, but the "gloop" stuff scares me. They seem to lack the necessary respect for their materials and for the community.
Just make it electric and plug it into an amp or something. The body wont really matter.
@@KonradTheWizzard Plastic welding would probably be the best bet
It was fun to see how excited Ray got once he finished putting the violin together, but I loved his huge laugh after testing it out by playing the opening bars of the Brahms Concerto! Next his analysis of the lack of resonant sounds due to all the plastic was spot on! Great video, Ray!
It's always refreshing to see people who are at the pinnacle of their field still being so accessible/approachable. I believe having fun with your passion is at the root of achieving such great success in it. :)
I really liked watching you be really happy - delving and exploring into new innovations. This was probably the most refreshing video on this channel - not just for you, but me too. I really truly had so much of a great time watching this - like you wouldn't believe.
3:55 thanks Ray! I needed that boost of confidence.
With some of that fancy wood filament and overall refinement of the design, I think this could be something that could be a good starter instrument.
I like the fact that I just found I can 3d print an instrument like a violin. I think it's not a matter of price/quality, but availability
Maybe a re-design needed to make the middle section of the body as large as possible so that its upper and lower surfaces have more freedom to resonate.
Couple of notes:
Hovalin recommends printing the body in one whole piece to enhance resonance and preserve strength, as expected. They do come with the multi-part print scheme, as seen, but they say on their website for best results, to print the body in a single piece. They also recommend multiple sanding passes before final assembly to enhance part adhesion and reduce disruption from print lines.
Ray is soooo humble and genuine. Anyone else might have edited out the error about the bridge, but not him ❤😊
The interesting aspect of 3d printing a violin or anything with a resonance chamber, to me, is that you can more easily manipulate/ change the way sound/vibrations travel within the instrument. Seems like there is real potential to test and/or change how the instrument sounds. Then, you can implement those findings using materials (i.e., wood) to fine tune the best possible sound output. This would make for a great "Will It" series, that ends with finding an expert violin craftsman that can build the best results to see if it makes the instrument better overall
Finally a feature between Albie and Ray!!
8:17 you can't but I can, if you can make it for less than a given instrument and meet or exceed it's sound quality then it's better, not to mention you can infinitely tweak the sound by using different materials and infill ratios.
I really like the app that you showed us. It's really cool - it 10000000% takes the isolation and lack of comparisons out of practicing, to really know what good is and be inspired to push to new heights. I wish I had this app back when I played musical instruments, but I could imagine this in the future. I'll definitely keep it in mind if not recommend it to others! I love it more than a lot - this is one of the most favorite of apps to date for me!!!
ooo interesting project....was actually thinking about how a 3D printed violin would be like so I'm glad you experimented and made this!!
Would love to hear a luthier's perspective on this as well!
Hurray, Ray's fingers survived, his violin playing was outstanding as always👀🥳😂
😅
This sounded better than i expected it to
Sorry but im very impressed!!! Sounds great to me for a 3D printed violin!
Hey I'm an engineer who specializes in prototypes. I can see a few modifications to this print that would vastly improve it's performance (at least I would think they would, I'm not a musician). First is the body attachments. If you are putting a rod through the body anyway why not use that for the resonance, and modify the dovetails to allow more acoustics. Second I would post process the entire outside smooth and coat it with a clear coat of resin. This may impact the acoustics but overall would help the feel, and it would definitely make the bridge sound better. Third I would use more solid attachmetns for the bridge. A huge loss in acoustics is in any mechanical vibrations that can be had between parts, making them more secure will make it less muted. Lastly, and this would take a good amount of trial and error to fix the finger placements like you were saying. Overall this looks like you were just playing on an unfinished print. I would be interested to see if you finished the process if it sounded any better. I'd love to take a crack at it myself but I don't have any violin players near me to try it with.
7:02 over generalization id say, there are hundreds of materials/blends to pick not to mention you can infinitely tweak the sound of a single material by adjusting walls, infill type, infill density and so many other things you can't do with wood.
Plus this thing sounds pretty dang good as is
Hi Ray, just wanted to reach out and say thank you for the concert in Eberbach recently. I particularly loved your version of the Piazolla piece and the atmosphere of the location! Met some of your other followers, too, you have a great community! Keep it up!
dunno man, looks kinda plasticky but knowing who will be playing it., it will probably sound like a million dollars
RAT YOUR MY IDOL I CRIED AT YOUR CONCERT😂😂😂😂😂
well... it is made of plastic...
"the plastic violin looks like plastic"
No 💩 sherlock, it's made out of plastic.
Your magic touch really amazes me!!!
Imagine, this kind of 3D printed Violin with a normal E-Violin Pickup in an actual Wood-Bridge would actually work. Just some tuning on the neck like sanding and youre good to go. for a First Violin it would be very fun. You could play outside in rain too ig.
Feel like the resonance issue is more about the gaps between the pieces rather than the material. I’d be interested to see a difference with the body gaps filled and/or welded
The fact that that even works is nuts!
A few years back I printed/assembled a violin.
Upper deck, back panel, sides and neck.
It wasn't customized for printing, it was a PLA copy of an actual violin.
Sounded really bad, so I took it to a Lutheir.
He set a proper sound-post and made a bridge, both from proper sound-wood.
Sounded a lot better for nearly two days, then the upper deck collapsed under the weight of the bridge.
I printed one back in 2015. 25 hours of printing. The neck is short because that way it fits on any cheap printer from 2015.
Would love to see if the sound quality improves if it is printed in something like PPS-CF. I'd bet the added stiffness would have an effect.
imagine if 3d printing musical instruments - and their practice sessions - were integrated into the app - how far we can take this 3d development!!! I'm stoked!
I had a smile on my face the whole time. It seems to be an enduring truth that geniuses are good at any instrument. Maestro Ray's skills are truly amazing, even with a 3D printed violin!👍🏻✨👑🎻💎🌞🌅👼🏻🪽💖
Hello Ray,
I'm actually pretty surprised that this violin did better than most wood violins on your Amazon violin review, I'm also glad I'm not the only one who feels sentimental about their violin ❤.
Use bondo and cover the surface with it and sand it down. It should make it sound better btw by physically binding the shell parts to each other. Should actually start to resonate
Whoa, that sounds good. That’s because you’re playing it Ray. 😂 You make everything sound more beautiful.
I think if you make it out of PLA it's going to slowly bend over time if you keep the strings under tension. might be intersting to print using a few harder polymers to improve the sound and durability.
Adding this to my list of things to print! My son and I are both learning and playing together right now for the last 1.5 years!
In contrast, people are starting to use 3d printed baroque woodwind replicas in performance. There was a big international project and conference presenting the findings a couple of years ago. So the technology is getting there, it just depends how the specific instrument produces sound.
references?
Woodwinds have historically been made out of so many different materials that it's hard to call anything "wrong", even modern materials as they may well emulate the good qualities of natural materials while not being as prone to damage or decay. Plastic clarinets have been around for half a century, and they sound as good as the quality level they're made to. POM (Delrin) in particular is actually a really good material for making wind instruments because it both can be 3D printed, _and_ worked on a lathe or mill like a metal or wood piece. It also has a thermal conductivity similar to that of wood, so it doesn't feel "cold" like metal. If I were to ever get serious about making saxophone mouthpieces, POM would be my material of choice.
This is so interesting. The design of the violin assembly may need to be redesigned. The traditional violin body is empty (its a chamber) whereas the 3d printed version has it filled with the assembly (fastening) structure.
4:36 "My baby right here"
Proceeds to hold it by the neck and wave it in the air.
Cool! You might want to try the Modular Fiddle. It seems to be constructed more like a regular violin with the body as one part, so the resonating surface and air cavity aren’t split up.
I was amazed by the sound. I do a lot of 3d printing and never thought it would sound good
Well the fact that this thing actually has a sound is impressive on its own
I want to see more 3d printed violins !!!
This is great. The biggest issue with classical music is access and this brings us closer to where people can start no matter their economic standing.
Back splash on espresso machine is the most relatable thing ever.
They should have added some cheap piezo pickup to this violin, that would completely change the overall impression.
Connect it to some cheap smaller amp, and I believe you would get more than acceptable sound for beginners.
Woodfill filament or carbon fiber filament would add to the resonance . So would a conventional bridge .
I've been printing the humble Ukele out of wood fill ... tested against a wooden ukele , recorded you can't tell the difference.
Love to see you print another out of woodfill or carbon .
Your video is all so good at every thing. Such a Awesome content creater. Love you
I think the tinkerable aspect is what makes this special. You can modify it to have longer fingerboard, have 5-6 strings, make it an electric instrument etc.
If it was printed in 3 pieces top botom, and the ring like structure, this would open up the chamber internally. Also the support structure inside that slots together being eliminated would allow the body to resonate better. Also coating the inside with resin and or fiberglas would brighten the sound significantly. This is a technique often used with speakers. Also the neck could be printed using foaming resin to lighten it.
Printing a one-piece body is definitely better, but requires a large printer. For the 3-piece body I suggest gluing the body pieces together with a plastic-bonding glue, like for use in wargaming miniatures (I use Citadel glue). You can definitely feel the violin body vibrate, especially on the low notes.
There's also variations of the Hovalin that have a different bridge, and even shoulder and chin supports.
I think the main problem is that the body is made of 3 parts. The front plate needs to be uninterrupted to vibrate as one.
And the walls inside the resonance chamber stiffen the whole construction.
Also it looks like the bridge is sitting directly on the seam between two parts. Directly ontop of one of those walls.
It basically cant transmit the vibrations into the resonance chamber effectively.
What you reall want is a "membrane" of plastic. Not a ridgid statue of a violin.
I think i would try to print the outer rim in several pieces and the top and bottom shells i would maybe attempt to "peel"/divide into 2 or moe very thin layers and have the seams run through different places.
Then assemble the different layers by glueing the edges lightly just so its together. Then covereing the whole surface in glue and place one layer on top of the other.
I hope you understand what i mean.
Basically have one layer be held together by the other and vise versa.
Print with a stiffer filament even carbon fiber PLA and I bet it sounds better.
Hi Ray Chen .. it's so nice to see you on your youtube page 🥰🌻💐
It sounds like if you tried to use your headphones as speakers in your bedroom.
It’s always nice that you give things like this and Amazon violins an actual chance rather than going in being like I know this will be awful because of my preconceived notions. You’re the only expert whose opinion I trust in these matters
As someone who plays the violin and also does 3d printing, I spotted the 3d printer being Bambu Lab X1C, which is a good one 🤖
This is tempting to at least download and look at the files. I have the parts to put together regular violin if I busted out the body of one and I have a 3d printer. I am thinking though, if it was all open area in the body, not the sections, and coat the inside with something along with revise and tune the infill for acoustics, you could have a better sounding violin, potentially a superior sounding one if done right. The bridge from mainstream ones are disposable, no need to 3d print one, the wood it's made of may enhance the sound too.
El artista y su instrumento… obviamente cualquier instrumento suena genial en manos de un maestro ❤. Gracias por compartir
I think the world needs a video of Ray doing home DIY 😂
5:25 for the ppl who want to skip and hear the first sound
Still sounds pretty good 😊
Hi Ray,
Yes, The Tonic App does in fact keep me practicing more regularly and longer as well.
There are lots of other musicians on there, some are truly amazing (real virtuoso talent) and others help me feel hopeful for my own playing.
Hi Melissa 😊
Would be a fine base for magnetic guitar style pickups.
You need to use ppa cf its the only filament that would sound ok. Print layers in the direction the wood grain would go.
i think the next step is to do your changes in the g code and also make a place to install a pickup and turn it in to a proper electric violin
Wow, so unique! I can't wait to see your creative videos! I came running as soon as your story was uploaded!💙✨👑🎻💎🌞🌅👼🏻🪽💖 GOAT Maestro Ray 💖
Ray...I feel like you could've added a few more dad jokes throughout this. still exceptionally entertaining.
You are amazing no matter what you play! Love you!
Been curious about the level of where the 3D-printed violins are at today! Interesting!
I can imagine having a sound post would make it louder
You could also figure out a way to add either a magnetic, or piezoelectric pickup system to the 3D printed violin, doing so would overcome the resonance issues.
You didn't insert a soundpost, that's why you only get the weak sound of the strings. Like an electric violin without amplification.
It's got a massive block of plastic on the inside which connects the top and back together where the soundpost would normally be. The weak sound is due to the considerably high density of the plastic which doesn't resonate like natural wood that's been chosen and properly shaped to suit its purpose.
Should try to make it again with wood filament!
Its an intersting toy. I feel like If i were 3d printing it i would approache it differenty if i remember the body is about 356mm for a full size violin so in the right orientation I feel like it should be possilbe to print it in one piece without the neck on something like the p1p which would drastically improve the sound quality. IF you are using non 3d printed you might as well source a good bridge and fretboard. I also feel like different plastics would have different sounds.
@7:55 Well, yeah, JS Bach sounds good on any instrument.
there is special filament for sound you can print it with and then you print it as a whole instead of in parts it will produce better sounds.
Okay, run amplification through it with a Piezo pickup. That would be a great video.
I don't know a single thing about violins, but maybe the problem with resonnance of the whole instrument is that the three parts of the body walls are full. I would've designed the interior of the body parts hollow, with sustain columns. There, the three parts aren't making a whole internal cavity. Not sure if i explained myself correctly.
Bring it to a luthier, maybe they can stiffen it and improve resonance to get the full potential out of the diy violin
i tink if you change the bridge into a wood it may increase the vibration or resonate more
You have to try from someone that has experience with 3d printing or a bigger printer in order to print it as one piece. Because obviously when it's in pieces the sound probably escapes through the loose "connected" points. Another suggestion is to maybe use a wooden bridge. I'm pretty sure plastic bridges don't work well even in regular violins. This would explain the muffled sound. If you search on YB there are definitely creators who seemingly have made good 3d printed violins. I would really love to see you trying one from them to really prove once and for all if the 3d violins really suck. I would swear I've heard better ones from other ybers. But who knows it may be edited to make it sound better. I agree the one you made sounds horrible (obviously you play the best). More content like this with 3d printed violin stuff please. Most people who do 3d printing don't know violin as well as you do in order to test.
$65 violin side comment 😂😂
Ray's editors are getting better and better
Ну вы даете :))). Как можно было в этом ошибиться?! Мой сын окон ил первый класс скрипки, я - мама - знаю о строении скрипки все, меняю струны, могу разобрать и собрать ее, настраиваю строй :)).
Вы прекрасно играете ;).
Dude, when you play it without chin and shoulder rest... It's awesome! 🎉
Since it puts out less base sound, it could be used as a practice violin that doesn't disturb the neighbours.
SLS print or Metal SLS print as one piece. The metal one would be interesting. (or a sheet metal violin that is welded)
This vso would probably resonate more if the pieces were printed in the same parts as a violin instead of being made up of Lego bricks