3.5 Tundra @ 9 mpg seems realistic. My 2016 F150 with a Twin Turbo 2.7 got 12.5 mpg towing my empty enclosed 16x7 ft trailer 500 miles @ 75-80 mph. When your TTv6 is in boost frequently, milage goes south quick.
Andre, Thanks for taking us along for the trip. I arrived in Las Vegas, New Mexico relaxed and refreshed😉Having said that, 75 mph is not really a very efficient speed for towing as there is so much more air resistance at that velocity.
I get better mpg with my 2012 RAM 1500 while towing better than unladen. If you on the interstate 70 mph is very ideal for towing, but you must activated the tow/haul mode and cruise control to achieve that high mpgs even on declines and inclines.
Even empty mileage is way worse at 75 miles per hour Nevermind towing. Most states I drive through are 65 max or less when towing. Would increase mileage Bigly
@@logut80 competing with effectively a different thing all together doesn't really matter. A truck with a diesel engine with current gas prices would cost about $0.165/gal and the 2022 Tundra is $0.184. So if you're going to compare items that are entirely different atleast compare them where they can actually show how they match up. Edit: fixed typo
@@ryannelson8717 I know my Cummins still gets like 18mpg towing but it's pre-epa bs. Take the epa crap off of newer ones & they will get way better mpg. The 1/2 diesels are getting 30mpg empty which is great & a lot better than the gas versions
@@logut80 The half ton diesels are not getting 30 mpg doing 75 mph though. Maybe 25-27 at that speed. And if your diesel prices are ~18% higher than gasoline like AAA is reporting right now, a gasser engine only needs to get 22-23 mpg to end up costing the same, which isnt impossible. The difference is not as much as people want to make it seem.
So my 2010 Tundra has a 26.4 gallon (Toyota's specs), The light comes on at 18 gallons, hits E at 20 gallons, and then reads 0 miles to E at around 21ish gallons. I have never had to put more than 22ish gallon in the truck and I have driven will past the 0 miles count haha. Now at 60mph (which is were I tow at), I've had 8k on the hook and made 15mpg. But I have the 5.7l with 4.30's tuned and that was on US77 and US59, now known has I-69 between Corpus and Houston and Had no wind. I have had 5mpg pulling 4k at 60mph but had a 30+mph head wind (lol), the wind down here does not F-around HAHA.
As an owner of 2016 5.7 TRD OR tundra I get like 7mpg towing 8500lbs in the mountains granted it’s not an aerodynamic trailer. 9.3 seems a decent improvement for me still need fuel to make the power 🤷🏻♂️ so it’s definitely more efficient.
When towing my car trailer on my Sequoia, i get several MPG more just by reducing speed 5mph, so i'd bet dropping down to 70mph, you'd likely crack 10mpg easy.
Not very impressive fuel mileage looking at the numbers but if you have ever towed that route you know this is pretty good. My 2018 crewmax got 11.2 the last time I towed an old truck from Colorado to Missouri. That route is much flatter than your route over Raton pass. The winds are also terrible between pueblo and Trinidad. Still not the efficiency that Toyota claimed but not bad at all for a 1/2 ton gas truck.
Just to share my experience with my personal truck. I tow a 8.5x20’ enclosed trailer through Eastern Pennsylvania, New York, and down through Tennessee, North Carolina, all mountains. Total trailer weight approximately 8k lbs with a 2019 Ram limited 3.21 gears. And my lowest mpg has been right around 9 mpg. Average is usually around 10.5 mpg.
What speed is that at? My 2014 F150 Ecoboost will tow my travel trailer and get anywhere from 6.7 to 10.9 mpg depending on the conditions. I typically tow at 70mph and I have had to face 30+ mph headwinds. It's highly variable so its almost impossible to compare any two trucks and trailers unless they are towing on the same road at the same time.
Huh? What truck is this, Standard cab 2WD with an aluminum body? The 7.3L is a good diesel for mpg but its not that good. I have a 03 F250 Lariat crew cab and 15mpg combined empty. I get 9 mpg towing a 25ft TT that weighs 5K lbs at 65 mph. Just curious.
@@RocHopn Yeah, two wheel drive crew, dually with an auto. 100k, full 4” exhaust, 6637 air filter and a tuner. 1800 rpm running 60 mph, uphill or flat, it never revs higher or downshifts. Now in Texas running 85 mph it got around 10ish mpg but, that’s extreme with 14k gross weight.
You would have to do the same drive twice with both setups to get an accurate comparison because of the different variables in two different drives. Elevation changes and ect
Interesting video. The series you're doing on the conversion of the old truck to electric will be super cool. I've wondered a lot about this exact thing. The cost and how efficient it can be made to be are key questions I have. Thanks Andre
@@derwinevans6751 yeah I saw that. I wondered what would happen to all these gas cars when the oil runs out. Depending on what it costs, retrofitting a gas vehicle with electric capabilities might be an answer.
Towing at his speeds with the turbos spooled up the whole time is going to suck down fuel. I really don't think the new engine is going to be much better fuel wise than the old 5.7 V8 towing heavy loads. Normal unloaded driving yeah, it's going to be significantly better. Just like with a compact car with a small turbo 4 cylinder, if you keep in the power band it's going to go through just as much fuel as a larger naturally aspirated engine.
I don't tow often but my 2018 Sequoia 4x4 gets 12ish mpg towing a 3,500 lb enclosed single axle cargo trailer at around 65-70 mph. At 80 mph it gets around 10 mpg. Not really impressed by the new v6 turbo but I wasn't expecting much after seeing how useless the other gas saving features on engines from different manufacturers have been with cylinder deactivation, start/stop, and even variable compression.
@@tylough I tow at 65mph when pulling our 5th wheel. Unless we need to pass or the speed limit is under 65. I also forgot to mention it is 32 feet long with tandem axle.
@@Kevinator1996 no not always. More rpms means more fuel. Higher speeds can have low or high mpgs depending on the transmission. Typically at 70 mph you are less efficient due to higher rpm and more drag on your vehicle. But with better aerodynamics and 8 or 10 speed transmissions you can get 20 to 25 mpg in a truck even at 70 mph.
Same problem with my 2018 F150 with the 3.5 ecoboost. I think in short the 3.5L and turbo's just do not equate to eco and boost, it is either or. ECO if you are not using the power, and when you need power you will have plenty but they eat gas.
The Springs to Las Vegas (NM) includes Raton Pass, but it's a very long, slightly downhill road from Raton to Las Vegas. I'd be curious to see how it does climbing up to Santa Fe, dropping down to Albuquerque, and then climbing West from Albuquerque to Flagstaff, where you cross the Continental Divide and climb several thousand feet a couple of times over.
I tow an Airstream 28’ camper with an F150. I get about 11 mpg average. When I tow my cargo trailer which is like a box and much lighter I get 10 or less. And that has been proven out on the same route over and over again. Aerodynamics plays a bigger roll than weight in that situation.
Keep looking at the side profile, does it ever look like a Sierra! new Tundra is pretty sleek.. Wonder if this one has a 4.10 or even a 4.3 rear on it? yeah 8.6 mpg is realistic for the setup, headwind probably brought it down by two to three | btw, congrats guys- your TFL Truck odo is almost at ONE Million subs !
The first gen are not underrated, they were very light built trucks! Brakes, transmission, transfer case and they rusted horribly!!! Really. There were horrible if used for more than a personal light use truck.
@@shitloveaduck that’s crazy! I have a 2008 extended cab 8’bed, 4x4 with the 5.7… I’ve got 304,000 on it and use it for everything, I own an excavating company and have beat the living tar out of the thing and it just takes it…MUCH more reliable than any other 1/2 ton truck…
@@smclynden - You have the 2nd Gen Tundra. One truck does not fully represent the entire brand. The 1st gens were very lightly built, ask any Toyota technician. The 2nd generation trucks were built more like the 3/4 tons of the time, 2007. They were very strong trucks until they rusted out (in the different rust belts). Several of My friends/acquaintances have rusted and dangerous Tundras with perfectly good powertrains. The frames are Swiss Cheez and the boxes are not secure on them. Yet the wheel wells are not rusted. I personally had a 2014 that was a mechanical nightmare, but I live in Canada so there’s no lemon law. I was stuck with it. I finally sold it at 50,000 miles (80,000 km actually) to the Toyota tech that had worked on it as he felt he could fix it. Eventually he did when he found a pinch point on several wires relating to the drivetrain on the main wiring harness, he had to tear the old one out completely and replace it. The work was huge!! You know Toyota is the only manufacturer that has had to recall and replace the entire frames (worth more than the trucks at the point the work was needed) on both the Tundra and the Tacoma?? The only trucks to ever need this! I can give you personal examples of F150s with over 300,000 miles on them and only minor repairs, never opening up the motor or the transmission. There @re Chevys, GMCs, Rams and Dodges, Nissans too!! Every brand can do that,,,,,,,,. I do believe Toyota Tundras, the second generation, were more likely to do so than the other brands, but not enough to offset the horrendous fuel economy as well as the ridiculously esxpensive routine maintenance schedule Toyota imposes on you while under warranty. You can buy a motor or transmission for the cost of that maintenance! Fords currently are,,,,, go for a 160,000+ km drive and change the oil when the light comes on,,,,,, see ya later!!!! That’s worth a few thousand over the life of the warranty period alone! There’s so much more to owning any vehicle and what you are going to use it for. I’m glad you have had a very nice example of a Tundra. I wish everyone had that kind of experience no matter what they buy. It’s not a guarantee, not even with Toyota.
I know you're in Colorado so you're towing in mountains and higher elevations. I'm curious what towing mpg would be for those of us closer to sea level on flater ground.
It would be interesting to see a comparison between this current gen tundra and the last year of the previous gen, in a test like you guys did with the Tundra and Ram. Is it worth getting the TT V6 or is the tried and true V8 still superior.
Fuel economy will come down to how much power you need to do the job it takes x amount of fuel to do x amount of work and overall efficiency of design. Would come down to long term durability more than anything else less stress on a large displacement V8 than a small or any displacement for that matter with power adder. It's really quite simple more boost is more air and fuel and more cylinder pressure to get more or the same output of a Naturally Aspirated large displacement engine, your just putting around town not loading your truck much you'll likely see pretty significant MPG gains and decent long term durability by forced induction smaller displacement engines. It's pretty tough to successfully make gains in all areas better off just picking the right tool for the job. The EPA has destroyed diesels mpg, durability and reputation now their on to gas engines sad 😔. Realistically your best option for overall performance is a stripped down base model new vehicles are stupidly overweight with all their features and that takes energy to move. 👌
My Sequoia 5.7 RWD typically gets around 9-10 mpg towing our Rockwood 2109s MiniLite. If there is a stiff headwind or long uphills...it can drop by 2-3 MPG. But all in all, it seems in the same ballpark as the V6tt Tundra.
I tow a 28’ AS and when I go 60 to 65 I get 11 to 12 mpg with a 3.5 Ecoboost (2020). When I went to S.D. and we went 70 mph it went to about 9.5 to 10 mpg depending upon wind conditions.
I bet, if the old school 5.7 V8 had a 10 speed automatic transmission, it would significantly improve gas mileage…….. Not impressed with this new complex V6 twin turbo option. 👎🏻
No it wouldnt. The V8 tundra was WAY behind in MPG's. If you put the 10 speed in it, it might do a little better but I bet it would still be worse than the current Ram, which is worse than the Ecoboost and GM V8's . It would need cylinder deactivation and possibly direct injection like GM and Ram are utilizing to get close. Even with that technology the V8's can only match a TTV6. Toyota probably realized that the V8 was not a better solution from a complexity, reliability, or power standpoint. So, pick your poison. TT V6 that makes 480 ft-lbs of torque at 2400 rpm and gets good MPG or a 5.7L with displacement on demand, direct injection and 410 tq at 3600 rpm. Both are complex.
@@Jay-me7gw 5.7 V8 is multiport fuel injection. If Toyota added direct injection with multiport, like some of their other engines, would definitely increase horsepower. 20 - 21 MPG is realistic with a 10 speed and adding direct injection. My preference, would opt by far, for a non turbo engine. Wait & see what it will cost to replace those turbos. Definitely will not last as long as many reporting 700k - 1,000,000 mile V8 trucks with regular maintenance. With No major repairs!!!! Dealers are saying cab needs to be removed to access turbos. Probably going to cost owners 10k for those repairs outside of warranty. I don’t consider 23 mpg significant improvement on the new V6. I’ll take any day a V8 with 10 speed & only get 20-21 MPG Toyota needs to give customers options.. Let the customer decide what is the best fit. Other manufacturers are still offering different engine options, like Diesel, V8, V6 twin turbo
Heck, my fathers 2020 Tundra never got better than 12 mpg with an empty trailer. Personally I think it was because of the built in brake controller that didn’t seem to ever work properly. It kept giving me a dash board message saying could not detect brake controller but it was plugged in and aside from the trailer brakes not working the truck was constantly in much lower gear than it should have been. At one point I realized that if I put it in manual mode and shifted it into the top gear it was finally working easier and it never really needed to shift down but anytime I let the TCM shift on it’s own that it would never go into anything other than 4th gear even when going down hill with my foot off the gas.
This really only tells us so much. Would be great to know how your other trucks did under those conditions. I know way out of the realm of possibilities but a one way with nothing to compare it directly to is kinda limited info.
I towed a utility trailer unloaded with that ramp gate up in both my Colorado and Silverado diesels and they got 17mpg. I towed a flat bed trailer with an 06 Jetta diesel (backed onto it) and got 20 mpg in the Silverado 1500 diesel. Aerodynamics are key for highway.
You always measure the squat in the rear but I would like to know what that does to the front. We know it lifts the front end and takes weight off the front axle. I would like to know much the weight in the rear lifts the front
Good gas mileage for towing. I’m sad that straight 6 is being taken out of Ford truck. Ruin a good truck and yes someone will want electric conversion. It should have been done to something different.
How will the truck be ruined? It will have more power and significantly better reliability. And being the truck is more of a weekend cruiser than a work truck, any range differences will not matter. Plus, that truck has already had an engine swap, axles swap, frame swap, etc.
Wow thts interesting, i have a 2020 tundra with the 5.7 and when i tow a 20ft car hauler with whatever im towing i average 10.8 to 11.4 mpg every single time.
I’m guessing you fueled at Monument Co at the stop before, that is a lot of slight down hill, yes there are some climbs but you are losing elevation on that whole trip, coming from LA to where you fueled with the camper you are gaining elevation the whole trip. I drive truck as an Owner operator live in Monument and use to run to Phx a lot, always got better MPG going to Phx than coming back. Of course the only way to really compare equally is same truck same route with different trailers preferably on the same day. Great video as always.
@@hiphophead9059 It's an interesting question. The tundra did better than the F150 hybrid towing, but the tundra hybrid only gets 1mpg better than the non-hybrid when not towing. And the F150 does a lot better mpg wise empty. So I'm curious if the toyota hybrid improves towing, is the same, or is worse. I think it might actually do worse. Tundra hybrid adds a lot of weight and not much energy because of the small battery. So I think it's very possible the toyota hybrid will do worse towing than the non-hybrid.
1. Love the new Tundra (I drive a Gen-1, I get 13-16 mpg empty in town with 2WD/4.7L). 2. Used to be there was a max speed* when towing (maybe that was only here in Calif). *I don’t care, just commenting.
OK please explain. At the 6:40 mark on this video The Tundra had Texas license tags. The balance of the video it had Colorado license tags. Why might that be? Same truck? And living near Las Vegas Nevada I’m very familiar with the run from the LA basin to Mesquite Nevada. Your climbing a lot. Reverse that run and I’ll bet you’ll get over 10 miles a gallon.
Missed opportunity. I think many watch TFL for the personality more than anything else. Every road trip is an excuse for a road trip video. Buddy up and get up to something or other on the way.
I think that difference could easily be explained by the difference of elevations between L.A. and Las Vegas, NV. uphill by about 2,000 feet versus relatively flat. Through many trips in my younger days from central to western Kansas fuel mileage was easily 5 MPG better heading east vs heading west every time.
I was thinking of buying a new Tundra till I went to the dealership and the first one wanted a extra 10000$ for nothing and couldn't say when it would show up.. second dealership said 6 months and I could only pick what trim I wanted and that was it couldn't pick color or options.lmao I'll never buy a Toyota if that's how they sell them
Would adding a truck shell/topper help with aerodynamics when towing? I have even seen old trucks with a wing on their roof to smooth out the air! Even with additional weight it might help.
I read a study on those wings mounted on the cab to break the wind for towing, it basically stated unless the wing is with-in 3' of the trailer it does not help at all as the air curls down immediately past it.
Looks like a lot more squat than i would be comfortable with (maybe it is just the camera angl How did that front end turn?? Maybe need some air springs on the rear end.
Andre, I know you said that truck is pleasant to drive long distances but from the first drive video of this truck, do you still ever find yourself wishing that seat bottom was longer?
I would love see them make a ton or three quarter ton option. Still not seen it tow 12k. Love your videos man keep them coming. Let's get a president and not worry about this gas mileage.
And what do you get without that trailer? That's how this works. Old engines were about as efficient with a trailer as modern engines. Where the modern engines have improved dramatically is their unloaded MPG's. Thats why you always hear people say things like "My old Ford 460 used to get 11mpg unloaded and 10mpg towing". The engines were so wildly inefficient when not under load that they were barely any better without the trailer. Unless you are towing more often than not, a modern engine will save you on gas overall.
gas $3.69... this video must have been shot a couple weeks ago. when gas prices were rising for some seemingly unknown reason that could take all the blame
On my 2022 Tundra Platinum, when on empty, it tops off at 28 gallons. On a 32 gallon tank? Can you confirm that the short bed pickups have a 32 gallon tank?
Do happen to know the hitch height on the Tundra Limited TRD Off Road? I have one on order and I'm needing to know so I can buy the correct hitch for my trailer. Thanks!
I know there's a lot of variables here, but that is incredibly unimpressive. My 2017 Titan XD gas truck got 12.9mpg towing a car trailer loaded weighing 7300lbs. That's with 33x12.50 mud tires.
@@carmendangelo715 Possibly. But electric motor torque acts very differently to an engines torque. An IC engine is always running. When it engages (via clutch or torque converter) there is a lot of inertia that gets transferred to the chassis. This is what causes chassis twist. A electric motor starts from zero rpm. There is no transfer of inertial energy.
@@Stuka87 It starts from zero rpm but makes max torque as soon as it starts to spin. they are also direct drive so there is no "cushion" when it starts, so it's actually twists on the frame much harder.
Weight is weight. The amount of force to move said weight is always the same. My 95 3500 v10 dodge gets about the same mpg towing about the same weight.
Correct in that weight is weight and there is X amount of force needed to move that weight and keep it moving. Then there is the aerodynamic drag coefficient which is it's own measurement. Lets call it Y. It is directly influenced by moving speed. Total power needed to keep the rig moving is impacted by both X and Y. For two different trailers, if X (weight) is the identical but Y (aerodynamic drag coefficient) is higher on second trailer, it takes more power/fuel for the second trailer when keeping them at the same speed. If moving at a constant slow speed, say 30mph, the difference in power/mileage will not be as great as driving at 50mph or 70mph. The faster the driving speed, the more impact the aerodynamic drag coefficient has and the larger the spread between the two trailers, even though the weight is identical between the two.
They do the speed limit there to show what it would be. If they did 65-70 the truck should get around 12.5 MPG with that weight. Atleast that's what my gets at 70 MPH pulling similar weight.
Of all the comparison testing you do I find it hard to believe that you leave out the most important one of all. Please do a back to back test with the same truck on the Ike and a loop with only one difference in equipment set up. Drop the speed on the one run 10 mph.
that thing is terrible for that load, my 87 f350 gets about 13.8 with a similar load but the 300 6, 265/75r16/ 3.55 rear gears and this was going from alamagordo NM to Roswell NM up and over the mountain
@@Jay-me7gw i was at 65 the most way and probably about a quarter or so throttle as the truck makes its peak tq just under 65 so it was barely noticing, on big inclines was able to maintain 45 and up to 6 to 7 percent from alamagordo to ruidoso maintained a healthy 40mph
@@Jay-me7gw when i towed at 75 from tucson to las cruces i managed about 11.8mpg which is not bad and is still nowhere near the tundras, and leaving tucson heading to lordsburg there a lot of hills that i did have to go heavy on the throttle to maintain 75
3.5 Tundra @ 9 mpg seems realistic. My 2016 F150 with a Twin Turbo 2.7 got 12.5 mpg towing my empty enclosed 16x7 ft trailer 500 miles @ 75-80 mph. When your TTv6 is in boost frequently, milage goes south quick.
Andre, Thanks for taking us along for the trip. I arrived in Las Vegas, New Mexico relaxed and refreshed😉Having said that, 75 mph is not really a very efficient speed for towing as there is so much more air resistance at that velocity.
Not everyone wants to run granny speed & get ran over on the interstate lol
@@logut80 towing at 75 isn't granny. It's simply not recommended for safety, and many states limit towing speed limits below that for a reason.
@@keithpassthewhiskey8323 I know 75 isn't granny but ppl saying he should drive slower. 60-65 is granny when everyone else is running 80-90
I get better mpg with my 2012 RAM 1500 while towing better than unladen. If you on the interstate 70 mph is very ideal for towing, but you must activated the tow/haul mode and cruise control to achieve that high mpgs even on declines and inclines.
Even empty mileage is way worse at 75 miles per hour Nevermind towing. Most states I drive through are 65 max or less when towing. Would increase mileage Bigly
Be terrible to buy a vehicle that you have to baby around to get somewhat ok mpg lol Even these little TT V6 just can't compete with a diesel
@@logut80 competing with effectively a different thing all together doesn't really matter. A truck with a diesel engine with current gas prices would cost about $0.165/gal and the 2022 Tundra is $0.184. So if you're going to compare items that are entirely different atleast compare them where they can actually show how they match up.
Edit: fixed typo
@@ryannelson8717 I know my Cummins still gets like 18mpg towing but it's pre-epa bs. Take the epa crap off of newer ones & they will get way better mpg. The 1/2 diesels are getting 30mpg empty which is great & a lot better than the gas versions
@@logut80 The half ton diesels are not getting 30 mpg doing 75 mph though. Maybe 25-27 at that speed. And if your diesel prices are ~18% higher than gasoline like AAA is reporting right now, a gasser engine only needs to get 22-23 mpg to end up costing the same, which isnt impossible. The difference is not as much as people want to make it seem.
@@Jay-me7gw I'm just going off the test they did on a 1/2 ton diesel.
So my 2010 Tundra has a 26.4 gallon (Toyota's specs), The light comes on at 18 gallons, hits E at 20 gallons, and then reads 0 miles to E at around 21ish gallons. I have never had to put more than 22ish gallon in the truck and I have driven will past the 0 miles count haha. Now at 60mph (which is were I tow at), I've had 8k on the hook and made 15mpg. But I have the 5.7l with 4.30's tuned and that was on US77 and US59, now known has I-69 between Corpus and Houston and Had no wind. I have had 5mpg pulling 4k at 60mph but had a 30+mph head wind (lol), the wind down here does not F-around HAHA.
As an owner of 2016 5.7 TRD OR tundra I get like 7mpg towing 8500lbs in the mountains granted it’s not an aerodynamic trailer. 9.3 seems a decent improvement for me still need fuel to make the power 🤷🏻♂️ so it’s definitely more efficient.
When towing my car trailer on my Sequoia, i get several MPG more just by reducing speed 5mph, so i'd bet dropping down to 70mph, you'd likely crack 10mpg easy.
Before watching the video;
YES, aerodynamics are worse for fuel economy compared to weight.
Squat doesn't mean squat. . All manufacturers raise the rear 2 inches to allow for it. The suspension is softer when empty that way.
Not very impressive fuel mileage looking at the numbers but if you have ever towed that route you know this is pretty good. My 2018 crewmax got 11.2 the last time I towed an old truck from Colorado to Missouri. That route is much flatter than your route over Raton pass. The winds are also terrible between pueblo and Trinidad.
Still not the efficiency that Toyota claimed but not bad at all for a 1/2 ton gas truck.
I would say it became more efficient with engine break in as well...
Just to share my experience with my personal truck. I tow a 8.5x20’ enclosed trailer through Eastern Pennsylvania, New York, and down through Tennessee, North Carolina, all mountains. Total trailer weight approximately 8k lbs with a 2019 Ram limited 3.21 gears. And my lowest mpg has been right around 9 mpg. Average is usually around 10.5 mpg.
What speed is that at? My 2014 F150 Ecoboost will tow my travel trailer and get anywhere from 6.7 to 10.9 mpg depending on the conditions. I typically tow at 70mph and I have had to face 30+ mph headwinds. It's highly variable so its almost impossible to compare any two trucks and trailers unless they are towing on the same road at the same time.
I get 14 towing my 30 ft Jayco. The old 7.3 diesel superduty is remarkably efficient.
Huh? What truck is this, Standard cab 2WD with an aluminum body? The 7.3L is a good diesel for mpg but its not that good. I have a 03 F250 Lariat crew cab and 15mpg combined empty. I get 9 mpg towing a 25ft TT that weighs 5K lbs at 65 mph. Just curious.
@@RocHopn Yeah, two wheel drive crew, dually with an auto. 100k, full 4” exhaust, 6637 air filter and a tuner. 1800 rpm running 60 mph, uphill or flat, it never revs higher or downshifts.
Now in Texas running 85 mph it got around 10ish mpg but, that’s extreme with 14k gross weight.
@@OzarksWildman kinda figured. Mine is SRW crewcab 4WD. Still love it though! Cant beat the 7.3L trucks!
unhook that trailer and see how the F250 rides vs this truck or any other 1/2 ton. the F250 rides like a brick.
You would have to do the same drive twice with both setups to get an accurate comparison because of the different variables in two different drives. Elevation changes and ect
Interesting video. The series you're doing on the conversion of the old truck to electric will be super cool. I've wondered a lot about this exact thing. The cost and how efficient it can be made to be are key questions I have. Thanks Andre
Oh great let’s turn an old truck into an electric toy!?
@@michaelbassett5105 I know, right? It'll be cool to see what kinda power it will put out and how far it will go on a charge.
Ford actually did the same thing to a f100. It’s grey with an orange strip. Looks pretty cool, there are also videos on yt of it.
@@derwinevans6751 yeah I saw that. I wondered what would happen to all these gas cars when the oil runs out. Depending on what it costs, retrofitting a gas vehicle with electric capabilities might be an answer.
@@dalejones4322 when oil runs out every single vehicle on the road right now will be either in museum or recycled.
Pretty impressive mpg given the weight of your load especially at 75 mph.
My 2021 Tundra gets 9.23 MPG pulling 5900 pounds of hay and a 2100 pound trailer doing 60 for 227 miles.
Towing at his speeds with the turbos spooled up the whole time is going to suck down fuel. I really don't think the new engine is going to be much better fuel wise than the old 5.7 V8 towing heavy loads. Normal unloaded driving yeah, it's going to be significantly better. Just like with a compact car with a small turbo 4 cylinder, if you keep in the power band it's going to go through just as much fuel as a larger naturally aspirated engine.
@@jblyon2 I Agree. It's not much different than an Ecoboost, where you either get the eco or the boost, but not both at the same time.
That's pretty good mpg considering it only dropped 4.5 mpg from normal fuel economy pulling 6k.
@@fl_atv_riders4455 normal fuel economy for this truck is 22 MPG at 75 mph. Where are you getting 4.5 from?
I don't tow often but my 2018 Sequoia 4x4 gets 12ish mpg towing a 3,500 lb enclosed single axle cargo trailer at around 65-70 mph. At 80 mph it gets around 10 mpg. Not really impressed by the new v6 turbo but I wasn't expecting much after seeing how useless the other gas saving features on engines from different manufacturers have been with cylinder deactivation, start/stop, and even variable compression.
I seriously doubt than the F100 on a trailer is "more aerodynamic" than the Black Series travel trailer. Lower profile...yes.
After many thousands of miles, we get 10mpg with our 99 7.3 4x4 f250 crew cab, short bed pulling our 13k pound 5th wheel that’s right at 12ft tall.
How fast do you usually tow on the interstate?
@@tylough I tow at 65mph when pulling our 5th wheel. Unless we need to pass or the speed limit is under 65. I also forgot to mention it is 32 feet long with tandem axle.
That's pretty good economy but stinks that fuel is $5 a gallon.
@@tylough No kidding! We're sitting still right now😕
I'd be curious of the mpg at 70 mph.
Noob here, is MPG supposed to decrease as you increase in speed?
@@Kevinator1996 Yes, higher speed means more throttle, more throttle means more air, more air means more fuel, more fuel means lower mpg.
@@Kevinator1996 no not always. More rpms means more fuel. Higher speeds can have low or high mpgs depending on the transmission. Typically at 70 mph you are less efficient due to higher rpm and more drag on your vehicle. But with better aerodynamics and 8 or 10 speed transmissions you can get 20 to 25 mpg in a truck even at 70 mph.
@@Kevinator1996 Stop and go you use more energy from the engine which drinks more gas, while cruising at a speeds dont waste as much
@@miltcoronado3392 unless you’re towing a heavy trailer 😉
Same problem with my 2018 F150 with the 3.5 ecoboost. I think in short the 3.5L and turbo's just do not equate to eco and boost, it is either or. ECO if you are not using the power, and when you need power you will have plenty but they eat gas.
Your going to take out one of the best engines ever built and turn it into a Prius. It's your truck I guess.
The Springs to Las Vegas (NM) includes Raton Pass, but it's a very long, slightly downhill road from Raton to Las Vegas. I'd be curious to see how it does climbing up to Santa Fe, dropping down to Albuquerque, and then climbing West from Albuquerque to Flagstaff, where you cross the Continental Divide and climb several thousand feet a couple of times over.
9.3mpg at 75mph up and down moutains is damn good.
Nice to see Nathan take advantage of all his hair options by using “Keeps”.
One of the few times an old Ford truck is considered the "aerodynamic" option.
I tow an Airstream 28’ camper with an F150. I get about 11 mpg average. When I tow my cargo trailer which is like a box and much lighter I get 10 or less. And that has been proven out on the same route over and over again. Aerodynamics plays a bigger roll than weight in that situation.
Keep looking at the side profile, does it ever look like a Sierra! new Tundra is pretty sleek.. Wonder if this one has a 4.10 or even a 4.3 rear on it? yeah 8.6 mpg is realistic for the setup, headwind probably brought it down by two to three |
btw, congrats guys- your TFL Truck odo is almost at ONE Million subs !
Great work. Can you do a comparison between the first gen Tundra and this gen, or just a review of the first gen? They're really underrated.
The first gen are not underrated, they were very light built trucks! Brakes, transmission, transfer case and they rusted horribly!!! Really. There were horrible if used for more than a personal light use truck.
@@shitloveaduck that’s crazy! I have a 2008 extended cab 8’bed, 4x4 with the 5.7… I’ve got 304,000 on it and use it for everything, I own an excavating company and have beat the living tar out of the thing and it just takes it…MUCH more reliable than any other 1/2 ton truck…
@@smclynden I'm with you on the 2008, but that's a 2nd Gen.
@@smclynden - You have the 2nd Gen Tundra. One truck does not fully represent the entire brand.
The 1st gens were very lightly built, ask any Toyota technician. The 2nd generation trucks were built more like the 3/4 tons of the time, 2007. They were very strong trucks until they rusted out (in the different rust belts). Several of My friends/acquaintances have rusted and dangerous Tundras with perfectly good powertrains. The frames are Swiss Cheez and the boxes are not secure on them. Yet the wheel wells are not rusted. I personally had a 2014 that was a mechanical nightmare, but I live in Canada so there’s no lemon law. I was stuck with it. I finally sold it at 50,000 miles (80,000 km actually) to the Toyota tech that had worked on it as he felt he could fix it. Eventually he did when he found a pinch point on several wires relating to the drivetrain on the main wiring harness, he had to tear the old one out completely and replace it. The work was huge!!
You know Toyota is the only manufacturer that has had to recall and replace the entire frames (worth more than the trucks at the point the work was needed) on both the Tundra and the Tacoma?? The only trucks to ever need this! I can give you personal examples of F150s with over 300,000 miles on them and only minor repairs, never opening up the motor or the transmission. There @re Chevys, GMCs, Rams and Dodges, Nissans too!! Every brand can do that,,,,,,,,. I do believe Toyota Tundras, the second generation, were more likely to do so than the other brands, but not enough to offset the horrendous fuel economy as well as the ridiculously esxpensive routine maintenance schedule Toyota imposes on you while under warranty. You can buy a motor or transmission for the cost of that maintenance! Fords currently are,,,,, go for a 160,000+ km drive and change the oil when the light comes on,,,,,, see ya later!!!! That’s worth a few thousand over the life of the warranty period alone!
There’s so much more to owning any vehicle and what you are going to use it for. I’m glad you have had a very nice example of a Tundra. I wish everyone had that kind of experience no matter what they buy. It’s not a guarantee, not even with Toyota.
My 2014 has never been in the shop. I just put gas in and go. I will be sad to sell it for the V6.
I know you're in Colorado so you're towing in mountains and higher elevations. I'm curious what towing mpg would be for those of us closer to sea level on flater ground.
Right, I'm in Corpus Christi were the tallest things we have to climb is an overpass lol, mostly flat farm and ranch land around here.
It would be interesting to see a comparison between this current gen tundra and the last year of the previous gen, in a test like you guys did with the Tundra and Ram. Is it worth getting the TT V6 or is the tried and true V8 still superior.
Fuel economy will come down to how much power you need to do the job it takes x amount of fuel to do x amount of work and overall efficiency of design. Would come down to long term durability more than anything else less stress on a large displacement V8 than a small or any displacement for that matter with power adder. It's really quite simple more boost is more air and fuel and more cylinder pressure to get more or the same output of a Naturally Aspirated large displacement engine, your just putting around town not loading your truck much you'll likely see pretty significant MPG gains and decent long term durability by forced induction smaller displacement engines. It's pretty tough to successfully make gains in all areas better off just picking the right tool for the job. The EPA has destroyed diesels mpg, durability and reputation now their on to gas engines sad 😔. Realistically your best option for overall performance is a stripped down base model new vehicles are stupidly overweight with all their features and that takes energy to move. 👌
We have a guy at our shop w the same truck, & he says the same thing… it’s too thirsty.
My Sequoia 5.7 RWD typically gets around 9-10 mpg towing our Rockwood 2109s MiniLite.
If there is a stiff headwind or long uphills...it can drop by 2-3 MPG. But all in all, it seems in the same ballpark as the V6tt Tundra.
I’d really like to know mpg with an Airstream at 60-65 mph. Anything faster I find knocks at least 2-3 mpg off.
I tow a 28’ AS and when I go 60 to 65 I get 11 to 12 mpg with a 3.5 Ecoboost (2020). When I went to S.D. and we went 70 mph it went to about 9.5 to 10 mpg depending upon wind conditions.
@@douglasquenzer9361 that’s close one to what I find with our 27FB and a 5.7 Durango. Hopefully the 2023 Sequoia is a bit better.
I bet, if the old school 5.7 V8 had a 10 speed automatic transmission, it would significantly improve gas mileage……..
Not impressed with this new complex V6 twin turbo option. 👎🏻
No it wouldnt. The V8 tundra was WAY behind in MPG's. If you put the 10 speed in it, it might do a little better but I bet it would still be worse than the current Ram, which is worse than the Ecoboost and GM V8's . It would need cylinder deactivation and possibly direct injection like GM and Ram are utilizing to get close. Even with that technology the V8's can only match a TTV6. Toyota probably realized that the V8 was not a better solution from a complexity, reliability, or power standpoint.
So, pick your poison. TT V6 that makes 480 ft-lbs of torque at 2400 rpm and gets good MPG or a 5.7L with displacement on demand, direct injection and 410 tq at 3600 rpm. Both are complex.
@@Jay-me7gw
5.7 V8 is multiport fuel injection.
If Toyota added direct injection with multiport, like some of their other engines, would definitely increase horsepower.
20 - 21 MPG is realistic with a 10 speed and adding direct injection.
My preference, would opt by far, for a non turbo engine.
Wait & see what it will cost to replace those turbos.
Definitely will not last as long as many reporting 700k - 1,000,000 mile V8 trucks with regular maintenance.
With No major repairs!!!!
Dealers are saying cab needs to be removed to access turbos.
Probably going to cost owners 10k for those repairs outside of warranty.
I don’t consider 23 mpg significant improvement on the new V6.
I’ll take any day a V8 with 10 speed & only get 20-21 MPG
Toyota needs to give customers options..
Let the customer decide what is the best fit. Other manufacturers are still offering different engine options, like
Diesel, V8, V6 twin turbo
I can’t wait to see you guys tow the new Sequoia
BTW, my Sequoia's GCVWR is fully maxxed out with the Rockwood and all my stuff aboard.
Heck, my fathers 2020 Tundra never got better than 12 mpg with an empty trailer. Personally I think it was because of the built in brake controller that didn’t seem to ever work properly. It kept giving me a dash board message saying could not detect brake controller but it was plugged in and aside from the trailer brakes not working the truck was constantly in much lower gear than it should have been. At one point I realized that if I put it in manual mode and shifted it into the top gear it was finally working easier and it never really needed to shift down but anytime I let the TCM shift on it’s own that it would never go into anything other than 4th gear even when going down hill with my foot off the gas.
Did you note the wind conditions in each test? I've seen tremendous differences towing with or against the wind.
The wind was so bad where I live the other day my truck got 10mpg while going 45. Which it usually gets 20+. Definitely makes a big difference.
This really only tells us so much. Would be great to know how your other trucks did under those conditions. I know way out of the realm of possibilities but a one way with nothing to compare it directly to is kinda limited info.
I towed a utility trailer unloaded with that ramp gate up in both my Colorado and Silverado diesels and they got 17mpg. I towed a flat bed trailer with an 06 Jetta diesel (backed onto it) and got 20 mpg in the Silverado 1500 diesel. Aerodynamics are key for highway.
Those ramp gates are pretty bad for aero drag.
A 2021 Volvo VNL 780 total weight of 77,324lbs at 70 mph averaged 8.3 mpg
You always measure the squat in the rear but I would like to know what that does to the front. We know it lifts the front end and takes weight off the front axle. I would like to know much the weight in the rear lifts the front
Good gas mileage for towing. I’m sad that straight 6 is being taken out of Ford truck. Ruin a good truck and yes someone will want electric conversion. It should have been done to something different.
How will the truck be ruined? It will have more power and significantly better reliability. And being the truck is more of a weekend cruiser than a work truck, any range differences will not matter. Plus, that truck has already had an engine swap, axles swap, frame swap, etc.
Wow thts interesting, i have a 2020 tundra with the 5.7 and when i tow a 20ft car hauler with whatever im towing i average 10.8 to 11.4 mpg every single time.
Do you tow at 75mph? Thats why he got 9.3.
@@Jay-me7gwyeah 75 mph the whole trip. Sometimes 80 if the highway is super clear.
Up and down hills and mountains against wind?
@@artemusburton4824 yupp in New Hampshire
Denver to phoenix is a very scenic drive. Also it's frybread taco land, which I find delicious.
I think the head wind had more to do with the difference then trailer in this case.
Lol lol Nathan is killing it with the hair treatment ads!
I’m guessing you fueled at Monument Co at the stop before, that is a lot of slight down hill, yes there are some climbs but you are losing elevation on that whole trip, coming from LA to where you fueled with the camper you are gaining elevation the whole trip. I drive truck as an Owner operator live in Monument and use to run to Phx a lot, always got better MPG going to Phx than coming back. Of course the only way to really compare equally is same truck same route with different trailers preferably on the same day. Great video as always.
You need to test this truck on the mountain that made your f150 fail.
Great content as always! Very curious to see how the Toyota hybrid does vs your hybrid F150 and the regular tundra.
This tundra did better than his in the towing loop they did so hopefully the hybrid is even better
@@hiphophead9059 It's an interesting question. The tundra did better than the F150 hybrid towing, but the tundra hybrid only gets 1mpg better than the non-hybrid when not towing. And the F150 does a lot better mpg wise empty. So I'm curious if the toyota hybrid improves towing, is the same, or is worse. I think it might actually do worse. Tundra hybrid adds a lot of weight and not much energy because of the small battery. So I think it's very possible the toyota hybrid will do worse towing than the non-hybrid.
So close to 1 million subscribers.
thisclose! 🙂
1. Love the new Tundra (I drive a Gen-1, I get 13-16 mpg empty in town with 2WD/4.7L). 2. Used to be there was a max speed* when towing (maybe that was only here in Calif).
*I don’t care, just commenting.
OK please explain. At the 6:40 mark on this video The Tundra had Texas license tags. The balance of the video it had Colorado license tags. Why might that be? Same truck? And living near Las Vegas Nevada I’m very familiar with the run from the LA basin to Mesquite Nevada. Your climbing a lot. Reverse that run and I’ll bet you’ll get over 10 miles a gallon.
"CHARGEZILLA"
What a great name!
Great video I appreciate the ride along 👍🏻.
Missed opportunity. I think many watch TFL for the personality more than anything else. Every road trip is an excuse for a road trip video.
Buddy up and get up to something or other on the way.
No wonder why we have no gas. He doing all these videos lol
Hey Andre did you get dragged into the roton chicken coop? That would be waight station or inspection station to non truck drivers.
I get 12 MPG towing my Escape 19’ Travel Trailer around the Great Lakes with my 2017 Tundra. I can’t justify the upgrade.
Andre was towing at 75 so you'll see better mpg at lower tow speeds.
I think that difference could easily be explained by the difference of elevations between L.A. and Las Vegas, NV. uphill by about 2,000 feet versus relatively flat. Through many trips in my younger days from central to western Kansas fuel mileage was easily 5 MPG better heading east vs heading west every time.
Wind generally blows west to eat also.
@@carmendangelo715 Not in Kansas. Particularly western Kansas.
I wish you guys would do a video with the Tundra pulling a 2001 Searay 210. Because that's what I plan on towing with it. LOL.
I hope you guys do the same tests with the Cummins
I was thinking of buying a new Tundra till I went to the dealership and the first one wanted a extra 10000$ for nothing and couldn't say when it would show up.. second dealership said 6 months and I could only pick what trim I wanted and that was it couldn't pick color or options.lmao I'll never buy a Toyota if that's how they sell them
Would adding a truck shell/topper help with aerodynamics when towing? I have even seen old trucks with a wing on their roof to smooth out the air! Even with additional weight it might help.
I read a study on those wings mounted on the cab to break the wind for towing, it basically stated unless the wing is with-in 3' of the trailer it does not help at all as the air curls down immediately past it.
Looks like a lot more squat than i would be comfortable with (maybe it is just the camera angl How did that front end turn?? Maybe need some air springs on the rear end.
It looked pretty level to me.
Andre, I know you said that truck is pleasant to drive long distances but from the first drive video of this truck, do you still ever find yourself wishing that seat bottom was longer?
Not a solution for everybody but the seats in the platinum and up have an adjustment to make the under leg portion longer.
It would be great to see a head to head video old vs new tundra. A real one.
I would love see them make a ton or three quarter ton option. Still not seen it tow 12k. Love your videos man keep them coming. Let's get a president and not worry about this gas mileage.
can't wait to see the 65 electric project. been toying with putting a tesla motor/axle in our old econoline truck for a run around town vehicle!
I'm getting those miles with a 2015 tacoma 4.0 supercharged with a 7k lb trailer
And what do you get without that trailer?
That's how this works. Old engines were about as efficient with a trailer as modern engines. Where the modern engines have improved dramatically is their unloaded MPG's. Thats why you always hear people say things like "My old Ford 460 used to get 11mpg unloaded and 10mpg towing". The engines were so wildly inefficient when not under load that they were barely any better without the trailer.
Unless you are towing more often than not, a modern engine will save you on gas overall.
Weird my 21 Titan pro4x gets 8.3 mpg towing on i95 a 7500lb 26rll alpha wolf 34ft camper and it’s a true V8
That ford should be getting the 5.0 coyote in it
Why did Toyota take the 1794 off of the website's Build and Price tool?
What maximum speeds are your trailer tires rated for. Usually they are not rated for 70+. This of course also depends on what your load is as well.
He was fine, they're only running about half those tires weight capacity
Thanks for sharing, very interesting information. I would agree towing a camper most likely will be more taxing.
Billy D
I can't wait to see what the diesel version can do, whenever it's out
Let's hope they do, it's been long over due but at the same time they didn't want to deal with the DEAF bs
Never going to happen here in North America.
There’s no diesel option coming, Toyota already said the cost of the pollution control system is cost prohibitive.
Never going to happen. The stats on the hybrid blow away the stats diesel out there. Yes , more HP and More Torque.
@@Edgarrasconurias I expected a bigger hybrid drive and battery to help with fuel economy.
I hope you guys get your hands on the new hybrid tundra as well and see how it compares,
Hi TFL! When will you be taking a 2022 hybrid up and down the Ike? Looking forward to that video!
gas $3.69... this video must have been shot a couple weeks ago. when gas prices were rising for some seemingly unknown reason that could take all the blame
TFL best truck videos ever 👍🏻🇺🇸
Not sure here, but is this Tundras looks growing on me? It doesnt seem to be as ugly as it was when they debuted it...
Welcome to phoenix Andre! Shout out from Tempe
On my 2022 Tundra Platinum, when on empty, it tops off at 28 gallons. On a 32 gallon tank? Can you confirm that the short bed pickups have a 32 gallon tank?
I bet at 65 mph that would break 10 mpg easy
Do happen to know the hitch height on the Tundra Limited TRD Off Road? I have one on order and I'm needing to know so I can buy the correct hitch for my trailer. Thanks!
I'm pretty sure this is the first time I've heard the words "more aerodynamic" and "60's Ford truck" in the same video.
I know there's a lot of variables here, but that is incredibly unimpressive. My 2017 Titan XD gas truck got 12.9mpg towing a car trailer loaded weighing 7300lbs. That's with 33x12.50 mud tires.
Why would you use the mileage that Google maps tells you? Seems it would be more accurate to use the actual mileage from the odometer.
I knew that stop looked familiar! My attends school there. I always have to explain to people which Las Vegas she's in.
I think replacing the tired old inline 6 in the Ford with an electric drivetrain will make it a far better driver. Looking forward to that series.
The frame and body will not be able to handle much torque without some beefing up?
@@carmendangelo715 Possibly. But electric motor torque acts very differently to an engines torque. An IC engine is always running. When it engages (via clutch or torque converter) there is a lot of inertia that gets transferred to the chassis. This is what causes chassis twist. A electric motor starts from zero rpm. There is no transfer of inertial energy.
@@Stuka87 It starts from zero rpm but makes max torque as soon as it starts to spin. they are also direct drive so there is no "cushion" when it starts, so it's actually twists on the frame much harder.
Do a Hybrid vs non-hybrid towing test. MPG and 0-60
Buying a Truck expecting MPG is like buying a Prius expecting to Haul Shit
New tundra is one gorgeous impressive machine
Weight is weight. The amount of force to move said weight is always the same.
My 95 3500 v10 dodge gets about the same mpg towing about the same weight.
Don't forget about wind drag it's a big factor
Correct in that weight is weight and there is X amount of force needed to move that weight and keep it moving. Then there is the aerodynamic drag coefficient which is it's own measurement. Lets call it Y. It is directly influenced by moving speed. Total power needed to keep the rig moving is impacted by both X and Y. For two different trailers, if X (weight) is the identical but Y (aerodynamic drag coefficient) is higher on second trailer, it takes more power/fuel for the second trailer when keeping them at the same speed. If moving at a constant slow speed, say 30mph, the difference in power/mileage will not be as great as driving at 50mph or 70mph. The faster the driving speed, the more impact the aerodynamic drag coefficient has and the larger the spread between the two trailers, even though the weight is identical between the two.
@Angry Beaver I said weight. Period
Shouldn't you be keeping MPH around 65-70? This would GREATLY increase your MPG.
They do the speed limit there to show what it would be. If they did 65-70 the truck should get around 12.5 MPG with that weight. Atleast that's what my gets at 70 MPH pulling similar weight.
Of all the comparison testing you do I find it hard to believe that you leave out the most important one of all. Please do a back to back test with the same truck on the Ike and a loop with only one difference in equipment set up. Drop the speed on the one run 10 mph.
The Yugo symbol on the seat covers are still making me laugh
My coworker just got the new tundra it has 400 miles on it and already check engine light for transmission and something electric
There are always a few bugs in all new models give them a year or 2 and it will be right back to good ole toyota reliability and dependability.
Have y’all had issues with the passenger side turbo yet? I’ve seen a couple of them come trough the dealership for warranty replacements
that thing is terrible for that load, my 87 f350 gets about 13.8 with a similar load but the 300 6, 265/75r16/ 3.55 rear gears and this was going from alamagordo NM to Roswell NM up and over the mountain
And did your 1987 do all of this at 75 mph without breaking a sweat, or were you foot on the floor doing 50 mph?
@@Jay-me7gw i was at 65 the most way and probably about a quarter or so throttle as the truck makes its peak tq just under 65 so it was barely noticing, on big inclines was able to maintain 45 and up to 6 to 7 percent from alamagordo to ruidoso maintained a healthy 40mph
@@Jay-me7gw normally at 65 i get 16 mpg and normally at 75 get about 14 ish Empty and with no wind
@@Project-gr6zy Well there you go. If the tundra had slowed to 65mph on the flats and 40mph on hills it probably would do substantially better.
@@Jay-me7gw when i towed at 75 from tucson to las cruces i managed about 11.8mpg which is not bad and is still nowhere near the tundras, and leaving tucson heading to lordsburg there a lot of hills that i did have to go heavy on the throttle to maintain 75