I built my own 12’ x 24’ plasma burn table. Plasma, Oxyfuel, Spindle. Using it everyday for the 7 years. Cost me $110,000 in materials and software, (not including time) but cnc burn tables that I was quoted all came in around $425,000. Took me full time and 7 months to build but it was certainly worth the effort and savings.
I got one of these "command CNC" controls back around 2009. It was complete junk. Back then it was called CandCNC run by Tom Caudle. Ended up building my own enclosure and using a Proma Elektronika torch height control from Ebay. Works great now!!
Been dealing with commandcnc the past 6 months with the same problems. Blamed it on me. Have now rebuilt the entire table, added ground rod, ran new electrical, and still not running. Was debating buying a new controller or switching to something else and came across this video. Think I made up my mind. Thank you!
Made alot of the same mistakes with a cnc router, trying to build one myself. It really held me up with its non-reliableness making every job a nervous adventure. What is mentioned here is the cost comparisons. What is not so highlighted is the loss of time. Countless weekends f'ing around trying to get back in production and waiting for parts. That's an added cost right there too
I'm in the process of building a similar table, when I was researching the control system I contacted Command CNC to ask some questions before dropping 3K, I'm sure happy I did, I learned rather quickly their not a company that I want to do business with, arrogant, rude and holier than thou are some of the nicer things I could say about them. After asking around in the DIY community I found out I wasn't the only one with this opinion of them. I spoke to the guys at Geckodrive and they recommended I look into CNCdrive based in Hungry, So far those guys have been fantastic, their English is great, tech support is helpful and it is a much simpler and more up to date, all ethernet connected components and about 1/4 of the cost of Commands CNC's crap. I bought my components through one of their US dealers CNC4PC which they are also very knowledgeable and helpful.
Thanks for the advise, personally I built a CNC router almost 8 years ago and after taking it through many stages and upgrades it is now and has been for at least 5 years a very powerful and reliable machine used daily. I have never had to change any part of the electronics, it seems I got that right first time. I am about to build my first plasma table and by comparison, it SHOULD be easy after all the loads involved are negligible in comparison. What could possibly go wrong....
Great video, we got a shopsabre 3 years ago and don’t regret it. It’s a tank, and cuts just as good today as it did when I got it. I agree on the slowness and also that it is a workhorse and will keep going.
Should have had a line conditioner, I had similar issues with some equipment until I picked one up. A good line conditioner will drop the variance to +/- 1% or less. Some CNC mills require them and running the mill without them voids the warranty immediately.
You inspired me to build my CNC Plasma table! I'm following your channel for more than a year. I decided to build my table as cheap as I can, I 3d printed some parts too, like the CNC router you made. Because I have only a few tools, I hope 3d printing was a good solution. Thanks, Man!
i build my own table with command cnc and i love it never a hick up cuts great every time and so easy a child can use it i think my total cost was around 5500 witch payed for itself first month. sucks you had a bad experience but you did get to learn in the process.
That's so rad that you got a good one, I'm happy to hear ur kicking ass with that table over there! I learned a ton doing this whole thing, I'm so glad I had the time to do it!
Thank you very much your story is very inspiring, I’m debating about build or buy, I realized that if I’m building a cnc router/plasma table I’ll spend so much time into the unknown and I will still be making parts just as a hobbyist I don’t think I have the time to do that anymore I’m not getting any younger, in the other hand I wish I could buy a machine like you did so I can spend time designing parts like in production mode and find a product I can sell or make for somebody else. Thanks again I admire your work, blessings 👍👍👍
When i have built my first table i used Candcnc DTHCIV. That old guy who owns the company is ridiculous. You are absolutely right, if something goes wrong they blame you. So after candcnc product i moved to Neuron THC ( russian thc )coupled with UCCNC ( hungarian software). Winner. Absolute never ever had problem. . Now i build cnc plasma only with industrial controls from Startshaphoon. Well just for the 2 cents, if you visit a big Company with large CNC oxy fuel and High Def Plasma you rearly see a PC monitor next to the machine :). By the way, you did great job on that CNC table building. You can't blame yourself for buying 2 of the CommandCNC. You were just lured by that THC like me before.
1.) building table made u who u r. 2.) get the old table running correctly. Have it still making you money. Its bought and paid for, get different electronics.. i am into 3d printing, sure there are other makers for controls now.. its blowing up. 3.) new subscriber👊
I can fully relate to this. In some ways you helped inspire me to build by plasma table and I have had a lot of problems with it. So far it is working good but I really don't expect it to last. I don't regret building it, it was really good experience but, its definitely worth it to buy and off the shelf table. Thanks for sharing.
Your last few videos have really stepped up man. Thanks for bringing us updates. Glad to see your business taking off! Best wishes to you and your family during the next year and beyond!
Thank you, I really went back to the drawing board with the video production. I got some better equipment and got some more skills on the editing side. I hope you have a great year as well!
Awesome information non sugar coated.! If you're doing it for a business investment go with the pro engineered tool . It's a fun project I also built one as a hobby watching your vids and others .Many many headaches ! Got it to cut perfect then the machine decided to forget everything with all my staring at the computer screen for hours got her back then sold that b**** . I get enough headaches from regular work lol :) I wish sucess for your business and Happy New year !
Hey man good video and great info. It looks to me why you’re going thru tips is because the torch height is too high. I have a hypertherm also A 900. When ever cutting with plasma all sparks should be shooting down under the plate you are cutting. When i cut even with hand held I dont even need goggles because all sparks have to stay below the piece to get quality cuts. In this video the sparks are shooting up and that just kills tips right away and thats also what starts causing the cuts to go on an angle on the edge like you showed. Let me know if this helps.
We do clean up on the precision rails between every sheet. They get brushed off an hit with a light oil. Then the bearing blocks get greased on a preventative maintenance schedule.
Loved the video. Side note though. No one who uses this to put food on the table should be building their own plasma table. Support will take forever or be nonexistent as you found out. While you will pay for a premium for a thermal dynamics or victor table, you will more than make up the cost in downtime and longevity.
Interesting lot of Vids. Arrived because of your older how to Flux Core Mig and have enjoyed a partial trawl through your Plasma Build to this one. 👍Currently unbuilding a Chinese 6090 Router into a small Plasma table for my shack - What could possibly go wrong 🤣
Great video (first one of yours that I’ve watched)! It has to be difficult to talk about this but it really goes to show you how being brutally honest with how we evolve can only be a positive thing. Thanks for the video, these are things I’ll be considering when it’s time to add CNC plasma.
Thank you very much! Some of my old stuff is pretty rough but I'm keeping it all up cuz it's part of the journey. Got to be brutally honest to cut through the noise on here.
Maker Table, Thank you for your very honest and Frank thoughts and insights on this subject! I am in the process of thinking about a CNC Plasma cutter as a build or buy conundrum. This has given a huge amount for me to mull over before I jump in at the deep end! I wish you all the best for the future in business and life. Cheers from John, Australia. PS thumbs up for an excellent Video.
Good time to clean those rails or it will go down those bearings are not cheep. If use shop air to clean them don't blow in to the seals use a tooth brush to clean them. Also if you have not already a HYPERTHERM 220777 electrode they do last longer.
I love my canacnc table! Thank you tom caudle for your excellent support!!!!!! I finally got my candcnc table running right after 1.5 years of struggling. It would cut but voltage at the cut would throw my thc into fits. Collisions at the tip,climbing up into infinity,hundreds of dollars of material and consumables wasted...it came down to one little detail. I was grounding the ohmic sensor directly to the consumable nozzle. That was sending volts from plasma through ohmic aaand causing ohmic to stay tripped as soon as plasma was powered up. With a thermal dynamics machine torch you need a shield nozzle to isolate torch tip from ohmic voltage and vise versa.
I also built my own table. I put all the electronics together from various places. I also now feel like if i had the money i would have bought a turn key, ready to go machine. Its always something and i also lost a plasma cutter, a torch height control card and a ethernet smooth stepper card due to lighting. Everything gets unplugged when im done for the day. I was buying pieces as i went but i feel like i havent saved any money compared to buying a machine outright.
Sucks about the control box. I think the waviness of the cuts was probably due to the backlash introduced by the worn set screw/shaft. One thing that sticks out even with the new machine is the amount of fine metal dust coating every surface. That can't be good for long term reliability. I've seen some plasma's with a silicone type shield that goes over the torch. I wonder if that would help cut down on the dust. Anyway thanks for the honest feedback.
You're 100% correct about the backlash in the gear reduction units. They work loose over time and exacerbate the THC issues to create a perfect storm of terrible cut quality. I have seen those silicone shields too, it's probably worth a shot. Thanks for the ideas!
Man im devastated i just finished a one year odyssey building my command cnc table based off your table build the only things i did differently was i saw how you struggled with the tapping the holes for the gantry axis so i opted for the aluminum 8020 extruded gantry and i didnt buy the belt reduction. i struggled with getting adequate cut speeds due to using an older thermal dynamics cutter with no good charts to guide me in set up. of course i discovered my commpressor was underpowered but luckily i had 50 amp service to my plasma machine in advance so i didnt have to hire an electrician. i will absolutley lose my mind if i have to buy another plasma tabel within a year.
I totally feel your pain brother! I wish I had better news for you but this is the realization I came too after may hard fought battles with this company. I know some people have had better luck with these controllers but it has not been my experience. I say run that sucker into the ground and don't take any crap from those guys when it's time to get a repair. I'm still trying to find a good off the sheld controller package to recommend but I'm a little gun shy after the last one. Best of luck, keep pushing. If you have the guts to build a CNC table you've got what it takes to make it to the next level regardless of the controller.
I think main problem with Command CNC, it's not designed for welding shop operation / CNC controller should use high voltage logic gates, voltage spike protection and etc /
But this is the thing u have some experience of building it yr self and that is the beauty about it even though it came at a price you know how everything comes together which is what I would like to do to share what I know with others out there world wide to any one who would like to do the same as I or you urself you could even draft up plans giving everyone else some ideas how it is built at least the the table ??
I have only seen 2 of your other videos and so I am new to the channel. I am an electrician by trade specializing in control with a background in computers. I like what you are doing and the business you have built up but I think you are not truly comparing apples to apples. Now i have never used commandcnc and no nothing about them, but they did not build table you did. You can not expect them to send a tech to fix your table. Now they should give you the benefit of the doubt and provide better support on the controller. You get what you pay for and as a diy maker you are on your own. So you spend more money and buy a compleat table and get compleat service. Now at the end of the video you talk about the new table is slower and you can not fix it. OF COURSE YOU CAN NOT CHANGE THE MAIN SETTINGS. That is what keeps the machine running. If you start changing speeds like your homemade machine you will kill that table too. One last comment is the dirty condition of your machine and the computer sitting right next to it. That dirt anddebrie from the cutting process is getting inside that PC and will destroy it. I think it would be wise to be some better house keeping rules in place. One last note with out seeing your setup and knowing for sure, I beleave the zaxis height control board was being destroyed do to transient voltage and frequency spikes from the torch power supply itself in the torch hight voltage sense line. If you better isolated and decoupled this line it would help. but again that's just a guess with out seeing your setup.
I'm an electrician as well.. industrial control, instrument, medium and high voltage. I built mine just as he did.. personally I've never replaced a single part on my commandCnc controller.. just a power supply in the PC. I like to think that the experience and knowledge I have as an electrician allowed me to produce better results than most people... But most people, intended viewing audience; need the real world advise He's conveying. I honestly agree entirely with your take on this... But I also believe commandCnc was represented honestly in his point of view. I do understand how commandCnc gets with dealing with customers... Because most people don't read... Don't study .. don't troubleshoot.... They just expect to make a call and get their problem solved... But cnc is not always plug n play. I could literally write a book on the building process, ups and downs, hurdles etc.. but He pretty much summed it up in his video... Average people need plug n play. It's that simple.
I love your honesty. I'm super proud of the business you've built for yourself. I watched you from almost the very beginning. If i were you I'd get a lighter gantry for the old table and buy a Cand CNC controller for it and get it back up n running. A light gantry is key to speed and acceleration on these things. I built my own table too, just as a fun thing to do. I learned a lot and I would probably do it again. I seriously think you get the other table going witha better controller and a lighter gantry. Then you'd have 2 machines going. I think you can get your new old plasma table back up n running with a new Hypertherm for about $5000, at the most. If the table is still good and the drive train is still good. You can use your old table with the lighter gantry for cutting the thin materials.
Great idea! I think I'm going to turn it into a laser box cutter for our shipping boxes. That bypasses the THC that normally blows up sp we'll see how long they last LOL
@@dahveed284 Maybe it was. Commandcnc is an open source controller software made to run on linux. The controller I use from candcnc implements mach3. I did have problems with mine in the beginning but out was due to the Chinese plasma cutter I was intending to use with it...the high frequency start fried a few boards. When I switched to a hypertherm pm85, those problems went away.
The table is not a dead loss for someone who wants one as it could be fixed up and improved, you spent a lot of effort making it, obviously one would buy a portable plasma cutter like HyperTherm to use on it instead of the junk electronics you spent a fortune on, i would still like to have a go and make my own table as i like to make things from everyone else's ideas plus my own combined.
All depends on your skill sets and experience. It takes a good amount of time, trial and error, if you are not involved in industrial fabrication or have cnc machine experience and the tools at your disposal, that you are able to use. Average Joe not involved in these things, it is good sound advise to buy rather than build a cnc plasma table.
The things he mentioned as difficult are things taught in first- or second-year college physics, stem from the size of the machine, and/or aren't deal-breakers outside of a production environment. Yeah, experience with robotics/CNC/etc and having a shop full of specialized tools certainly makes things easier/cheaper, but with the explosion of resources available to DIYers these days, even Average Joes might be able to build time/cost-effective "garage-grade" plasma cutters.
I built my own and tried cncandc took all off the table tossing into the trash can and went to my own system mach 3 and gecko g540 I was up and running in 2 hours. So I know your pain.
@@MakerTable proma 150 thc price make one to that I am impress with to Today I working on a masso controller stand alone system just bring in the tap file to cut. This probably will take me couple days to get running.
Thanks, this video kinda hit the spot for me as I just started a side business with my TruCut XT machine. I'm pretty happy with it after 3 months but am thinking a bigger machine in the future. My thoughts had been that JD Squared & Shop Sabre appear to have the best built tables mechanically speaking. I'm not so sure I like the software platform so much. I'm using Mach 4, may not be great but it's all I know at this point. I like Sheetcam and Vectric ok for CAD/CAM. Would love to hear more about the limitations with the software you said was slower. I like to be in full control, one reason I don't use Iphone...LOL
I'm still trying to figure out how to speed up that machine but all the features are buried in the directory files so I haven't had time to play with it/mess it up
Thank you so much, it's some hard won experience but that's life. I just wanted to share this to potentially save someone else the same experience. Happy New Year!
@@MakerTable Yes and you really should be MAD, bad business policies they are out there you found one we have had few as well then there is me over here saying "this will not happen again" and then it does, so I get it and it really sucks but I think, no I know you will blast right past this and move on to continue to prevail and we will be one of many right here to watch your videos and see how things grow. Happy New Year.
Thank you for that. Im stuck with the same conundrum and down here in New Zealand everythings twice the price....... im building mine. I also need some education so battling through building it will be educational.
So, knowing what you know now, you couldn't build a decent diy setup that would hold up (provided you make improvements/modifications where necessary)?
How about mounting a drill next to the plasma cutter that can drill out a hole at the start of each cut so you don't have to do any piercing cuts with the plasma?
Super cool Adam! I remember you telling me all a out your plasma table when you first got it set up. Sucks that the controller has been such a pain. Still really impressive though. I definitely gotta make some time to come check out the new location. Keep on kicking ass man!
@@MakerTable I have many!! 1 in particular that I'm gonna see if you would want to help me with. I want to build a raised lid for the trailer. Would ideally like it to be built out of aluminum. I've got some ideas drawn up in cad. I'll reach out to you soon to see if it's something you'd like to help me with.
Dang, I assumed the main reason most people would want to build their own plasma CNC table was for the $$ savings. $3500 just for the controller?????? Kind of blows my mind that anyone would spend that much on a table of this size and build quality.
If you still have the old table would it be worth converting to oxy fuel to pursue cutting heavier parts? You should be able to get by with out the height controller that blows out, and the slower speeds should keep the gantry alive.
Did you have cables coiled like that when you were operating the machine? If so, then you DEFINITELY share some of the blame for your controller problems. Another term for "coiled cable" is "antenna," and another term for "plasma cutter" is "high-powered EMI generator." If your torch lead or power supply got anywhere near those coils, you could easily have ended up inducing enough voltage/current on a signal cable to blow circuits. Also, for future reference, voltmeters are pretty inadequate tools for measuring for power quality. Yeah, they show you long-lasting spikes/drops, but they DON'T show you transients, which plasma cutters produce like crazy and can be both harder to protect against and more damaging. Your voltmeter might not feel a microsecond-long spike to 200V, but something else sure might. I doubt the power coming out of the wall was the problem (if it were, the controller's power supply would probably fry before anything else), but a voltmeter reading 118V isn't going to convince an electrical engineer that all is well.
Thanks for the info, I had no idea a multimeter wouldn't show spikes. That was the best thing I could think of to show the manufacturer that I had normal power. As far as the coils. I learned that lesson along the way and had all cables run flat. Shieled wires for every connection. Two 8 foot grounding rods driven 24 ft apart. Battery backup UPS. Put the plasma power supply 6 ft away from the table. PC/controller 6 ft away from that. I felt like I was chasing ghosts LOL!
@@ricbarker4829 Well, it's been at least 10 years since I went shopping for a multimeter, so maybe, but the one in the vid doesn't look like something that could measure transients even in the millisecond range. However, I think for this work, you'd need to measuring in the MICROsecond range, which is a very different ballgame, and one I'd be shocked to see a multimeter enter. It's a lot more expensive and, at best, useless for 99% of multimeter users, so I suspect that such measurements are still firmly in the domain of oscilloscopes.
I think it depends on your skill set whether its cheaper to build a table or buy one turnkey. I built my 4x8 for under 4,000 including the plasma cutter.
This guy is a shop owner who’s used to paying a lot of money for other people to make things work. He didn’t go into this as a hobbyist doing his research.
TL:DW - CandC sucks as a controller, and I made my Gantry too heavy for the drive system I chose. So I paid $17k+ on a complete new table and don't recommend you building your own because buying the same b.s. $3k CandC controller over and over, and and not upgrading my drive system didn't work for me.
It's totally possible to make the leap with a DIY table, obviously. But improve on this build, go extruded aluminum on the gantry and get a better controller. I know flash cut makes a better controller but it's also more expensive.
Great video! I want to see how cheap I can build a plasma table to use it a few times with no intention of making $$$ (except on adsense or affiliate sales). If I ever decide to make $$$ with a plasma table I will pay you for your time to chat with you before trying anything. Thanks -John
Hey Maker: Sad that was your experience. I am glad you shared your thoughts at this point. This video has been a great sanity check for me. Please do not feel bad about what I am about to share: I followed your videos when you were building. I had mine up within about 3 weeks of starting much of it thanks to being able to see your trials and tribulations. I was happy with your videos....on the table. The outfit that I bought the rest of the components from (same outfit as you bought from)….not happy at all. Broadly, it feels like everything is kludged together. I found the system to be fragile. I hate the idea of used computers being the basis of things. The controller seems like it was a refurbished controller. Tech support...I think one guy was pretty decent...the other not worth the time. This is the perfect system for someone who doesn't want to cut with plasma...but wants to geek out on the electronics. When I built the table...I did a few test cuts and then did exactly one 'free' sheet of golf course signs for a local charity golf tournament. The system would not boot afterwards. I sent it back...turn around was about 3 weeks. When I received it I immediately I did a few tests cuts. Next day I booted it up...nothing. I told them I wanted a new computer...and I would pay for a new computer. After a month of them telling me I did not know what I was doing...I still did not have a new computer and no working plasma table. I threw a sheet over it and have not looked at it since March of 2018. One thing that irritated me was I actually know Linux...they were treating me like I was a complete NOB. I was into Linux before it had a GUI. Anyway...I digress. I have no problem cutting my losses...If anyone wants this complete table (less the Hypertherm)...I will let it go for 30 cents on the dollar right now. I am near El Paso, TX. Video of first test cuts here: ua-cam.com/video/np1-jFYG03Y/v-deo.html At this point: I am curious about what you went to. My requirements are: I need something that is robust, durable, and non-buggy. I want it to work when I want to work....I don't want to be constantly trouble shooting it or talking to tech support (especially a prick who thinks I am a stupid F). If it is a robust system then I wont' be talking to tech support. I am not actually hanging out a shingle for custom cnc plasma work...I am using it in house for light fabrication. I have to cut up 1" reasonably 'close enough'. I would like to do bolt ready holes in up to 3/8. I do not care if the table is a little slow...as long as it is reasonably accurate, reliable and trouble free. I currently have a Hypertherm65 which I would recycle into a new table. With your experience...how do I get to that level? Or am I stuck having to go to a $100,000+ system to do about 80 hours of cutting per year? I enjoy your channel...and have learned a lot from you over the last year. Keep up the great work! I wish you success and happiness in the future years to come!
Thanks brother, I feel all your pain. I went with a Shop Sabre table that definitely doesn't run $100k. JD2, Torchmate and Shop Sabre all make similar quality machines and back it up with decent tech support. I like Shop Sabre's tech support best so I went with their machine. There are some other options to just retrofit the electronics on your existing table because it sound like you have the controlled motion part down. Flashcut CNC seems to be the most industrial style electronics package out there that will plug into your system. Give them a shout, they're very helpful and knowledgable.
I love the price point and the approach to make something for the hobby/garage guy. I haven't run them personally so I can't speak on quality or work flow but I'm excited to see more people get access to this technology.
hi im in the uk i want to build a 2x2 or a 2x3 for personal projects cutting a maximum thickness of 10mm stainless steal would you say it would be cheaper to build a table this small where the cutting thickness will be no more than 10mm or to buy 1 , any info would be greatly appreciated
How much was the Sabre table to buy vs. cost of the one you built? im in about the same boat here, would like to build one to keep cost down to see if theres a market for it in my area.
Thanks for sharing this very practical video with us. I watched the whole thing, & it was enlightening. I guess if you can buy CNC plasma table and make payments, that's ultimately the better way to go eh?
If you are driving too much weight the electronics are overloaded. What is the current (amp) load on the motors moving all that heavy hardware around? Your table looks more like the heavy-duty steel tubing used to build commercial gym equipment. You are a little fast to blame the supplier, especially after admitting you used lightweight gear reducers. All you've learne dis you don't understand loads and power.
Man we have such similar issues I can really relate. I designed mine to be able to put a router on eventually and made the gantry too heavy. I have the older bladerunner setup that came out about a year before the commandcnc stuff that was supposed to be better. Which I had actually been contemplating buying a while back because my machine has had an issue ever since new where the torch will cut off but the machine keeps moving. After half an inch the torch turns back on and makes for a day of babysitting to restart the line where it screwed up. I got another computer a couple of weeks ago from a buddy and it seems to be better but still has issues. The reason I got the bladerunner was everyone talked about how great the support is but I agree it isn't there. I've emailed on about 6 different issues and every time after 2 emails from them on a topic they stop responding all together.. So I guess you have to figure it out in 2 emails or they move on and your left scratching your head. I've been reworking everything I can to make it perform better (revamping the gantry) because I am planning on making it a full time gig as well and I'll be buying my next one as well. Not sure what brand yet but it won't have candcnc attached to it. Is the Shop Sabre stepper motor or servo? Is the lack of speed do to the cut speed or something else? If you get a minute I have a build page but I lost a bunch of the pictures do to a broken phone. You may have to sign up but they won't spam you to death. Plus there are a lot of people willing to share their knowledge from plasma makers, cad, and cam issues. www.cnczone.com/forums/plasma-edm-other-similar-machine-project-log/186052-4-x-8-plasma-table.html
Wow man, I feel your pain in all of this. Sounds like a pretty typical experience. The ShopSabre is glass encoded servo motors. I think the cut speed could be fixed with some tweaking of the touch off sequence and a few other .ini files but I just don't have the time to crack into it and do some serious testing. Thanks for the additional resources, that is the next step for me. Finding another DIY supplier that I can recommend with confidence. Keep pushing brother!
@@MakerTable You're welcome man love to see entrepreneurs do well! That site has tons of different forums. I still go back and search for things and try to help out others just getting started. Is your shop sabre pretty similar in the process from cad to cut as your DIY table?
@@FTWarr yeah the work flow is similar to the DIY table but I miss using sheet cam. I'm forced to use enroute w the shop sabre and it wasn't made for plasma so it's a little clunky. But I've gotten pretty efficient in there by now 🍾
would also be worth trying to keep your shop or even just the area you have your cnc plasma table a lot lot cleaner! I would also recommend you clean out your table water and keep it fresher. the amount of splatter over everything isn't helping longevity or reliability by having all that over your table components like the lead screws etc and into your ways and slides. It's basically abrasive paste covering all your parts. You want to improve your business or grow, thats good, but what I have said above is exactly the sort of things the larger professional machine shops will be doing and for good reason. TPM, reducing downtime, keeping a clean workplace, 5S, all key things to keeping an efficient shop. I don't know your own background or knowledge level, but hopefully you just arent aware or have had experience in these things yet and are willing to implement them. It would be worse if you knew these principles but ignored them. It's funny when people just crap on things they dont understand or think that its nonsense, which unfortunately is so common place in machine shops and engineering workplaces. good luck with the new table.
Thanks for the input! I grew up in a three shift manufacturing plant so we practice the LEAN manufacturing methodology here. We keep good track of our PM's but we have room for improvement on the the 5S's particularly Shine. We burn through bearing blocks because of our lack of cleanliness. We've implemented some new processes when we load new sheets and we're tracking run hours per bearing block to measure the results of our new process. I know we're not perfect, but we can get better every day. We are always trying to improve down here. I cover Kaizen principles most mornings on my Instagram story. The next step is working it into some of the videos on here so other people can benefit. Thanks for your input!
@@MakerTable at least you guys are aware and are doing something to help the situation which is half the battle! I just felt it was worth commenting since I saw the issues you were having on your old table and just saw your new table was getting pretty mucky looking. I know plasma and waterjet tables are inherently quite messy processes but for that very reason I would have our guys give the head's a once over at the end of their shifts just to keep the worst off. Means they never get that super heavy build up and then we keep a TPM schedule in place for both to keep them tip top, obviously as well as a full spares store kept on a kanban list. I know it's tough when you're working day to day to implement new intiatives, but obviously can't be overstated to keep your money makers in tip top condition. You'll get there man, one step at a time. table looks great too, a solid bit of kit.
@@joeshaft Thanks for the thoughtful feedback, this is the stuff that gets you to the next level! We schedule PM's but we're still looking at the bearing blocks as unscheduled downtime because we don't have enough data to implement a change over based on expected life expectancy. So I have a MOQ set for the bearing blocks and grease but the ultimate goal would be to get this on a Kanban card and schedule it during non critical operation hours. I never thought about spares being on a Kanban Card though, I'll have to put some more thought into that. I'm self taught on the LEAN stuff and I find it hard to bridge the gap between theory and practice sometimes.
@@MakerTable I don't think you ever stop learning about lean or the methodologies etc. it's a never ending learning curve in my experience! I have always found a great help by applying it to lots of different industries and you get to see the quirks of each and how best to apply the techniques, certainly been a massive help in my career. if you tackle a big lean project or improvement, it would be cool to see a video of that
Dude its crazy that you went with such expensive equipment that didn’t even work properly. Regulated power supplies, cheap reliable drivers-you could buy all of that stuff on Amazon to drive your machine and have it actually work for way less.
I appreciate you creating and posting your videos but, I have to I give a thumbs down on this one and I'll explain why. Firstly, I feel this is a sales pitch for Shop Sabre for a kick back. You are praising the quality of it and it hasn't been 2 years like your original table. You had good cuts with your original table at least for a while. Your original story on building your table convinced me to build the same table with no regrets. You built a stout machine for the what you could afford to get started in the biz so, I didn't like how you then bash the machine you built after running it for mass production and at higher cut speeds than your $17k+ Shop Sabre and then things became loose. The pinion gears are supposed to be installed with bearing lock to prevent the looseness you experienced. Also, for the best accuracy, you should keep your equipment more protected from dirt and such for many reasons. The spaghetti wiring, that's for the installer/builder to organize. Mine is mounted inside the box tubing of the frame out of sight and harms way. Command CNC does have it's faults but, at the time it was the system you could afford. When comparing buying a new Shop Sabre @$17,000+ or the other table, the cost of your compressor, plasma cutter, shop updates, etc. should not be included in your build price of $13,500. No table will include a compressor and shop updates,Lol! So, $13,500 for your build was exaggerated. I had to buy all my steel and built a 4x8' with a built-in water tank, Hypertherm 45XP with full hookup(CPC,Hy-T control) CommandCNC Bundle ($2999, not $3500) for under $9500. That was almost half of your Shop Sabre. Just because you have progressed to higher production and can afford a complete factory made system that suits "your" needs of today, don't crush peoples dreams or mislead them from considering this DIY table or the one that is already built if that's all they can afford. Your videos are very influential and you probably have more viewers at this lower price point. I mean no disrespect, just my opinion.
Hey man thanks for the honest feedback. I need to say that first off this is not a kick back video for Shop Sabre, they have never paid me a dime. I actually took all of their marketing off of my table and replaced it with my own 😁 I didn't mean to bash the DIY guys, I am a DIY guy. I could have wired it better, I could have kept it cleaner and I did run production on it for a while. BUT I had to drive from TN to TX every 2 months to get the controller rebuilt, I also had to burn the red lock tight out of the gearboxes to get them retightened every 3 months or so, argue w CandCNC every week to get some assistance, buy an entire 2nd set of controllers and motors because CandCNC doesn't just sell the controller as a standalone unit or rent a hypertherm to prove to them that it wasn't my plasma cutter that was causing the issue w their controller, etc. etc. etc. I want people to know everything that can go wrong with one of these things so they can make the best decision. It took me 2.5 yrs to save enough money to buy those first parts and build that table. I'm so glad I did, but if I had already figured out a working business model that needed a table for production I wouldn't have made it. I also didn't mean to give an inflated number for the price, I thought I was being more honest by sharing all the costs associated. You can't use a plasma table without a plasma and compressed air. CNC plasma cutting has changed my life, I want more people to get into it. I want to teach people everything I have learned so they can make a better decision than I did. I don't want to knock anyone with a DIY table or anyone trying to get into the shop and make things. I've got some great ideas about how to make a better CNC table, I just need to find a way to make it at an affordable price. Happy making, I appreciate ur thoughtful feedback 👍
@@MakerTable so all in all, the table itself wasn't really the issue, it was the electronics. I understand Flashcut is a better system but about double the price. So, it's worth mentioning building that table with those electronics may have been a much better choice.
Exactly, controlled motion was not a major issue and accuracy was good to under 1/16". The whole thing came down to the THC card on the controller. It was somehow tied into the rest of the system so every time that card blew all the motors would lock up so I couldn't even bypass it and limp along. I tried to buy the 2nd controller so I could blow up one and send the other out for repairs but I somehow managed to blow up both at the same time over and over again. I'm currently testing the star fire controller from China. Piranha and Laguna both use them on their industrial tables and it's more affordable than the CandCNC or Flashcut system.
I can recommend a THC from Neuron CNC. I use the Neuron Lite personally and it's integrated in the motion contol software (UCCNC), which works really good :)
Wow, Should have watched my channel first .... sorry you got taken to the cleaners soooo badly. I am glad that in the end it all worked out and you are making money now!
I also watched your videos an built very similar 5x10 table, however my controler box look different. I have a super z axis an my box is square an white, is it different than yours? So far i have no problems but only have cut about 8 full sheets of steel.
That's their windows based controller mine is Linux based but both are made by the same company. I wish you the very best of luck! Thank you so much for watching and taking it to that next level 👍
You should lease to own if you don't have the money up front. If you are going to build make a cheap version, like absorber of light youtuber his cost 300$ to make .
I built my own 12’ x 24’ plasma burn table. Plasma, Oxyfuel, Spindle. Using it everyday for the 7 years. Cost me $110,000 in materials and software, (not including time) but cnc burn tables that I was quoted all came in around $425,000. Took me full time and 7 months to build but it was certainly worth the effort and savings.
The education you got by building your own table is priceless.
I got one of these "command CNC" controls back around 2009. It was complete junk. Back then it was called CandCNC run by Tom Caudle. Ended up building my own enclosure and using a Proma Elektronika torch height control from Ebay. Works great now!!
Thank you UA-cam algorithm and thank you Maker Table. Gold content for where I'm at right now in life.
Been dealing with commandcnc the past 6 months with the same problems. Blamed it on me. Have now rebuilt the entire table, added ground rod, ran new electrical, and still not running. Was debating buying a new controller or switching to something else and came across this video. Think I made up my mind. Thank you!
Made alot of the same mistakes with a cnc router, trying to build one myself. It really held me up with its non-reliableness making every job a nervous adventure. What is mentioned here is the cost comparisons. What is not so highlighted is the loss of time. Countless weekends f'ing around trying to get back in production and waiting for parts. That's an added cost right there too
I'm in the process of building a similar table, when I was researching the control system I contacted Command CNC to ask some questions before dropping 3K, I'm sure happy I did, I learned rather quickly their not a company that I want to do business with, arrogant, rude and holier than thou are some of the nicer things I could say about them. After asking around in the DIY community I found out I wasn't the only one with this opinion of them. I spoke to the guys at Geckodrive and they recommended I look into CNCdrive based in Hungry, So far those guys have been fantastic, their English is great, tech support is helpful and it is a much simpler and more up to date, all ethernet connected components and about 1/4 of the cost of Commands CNC's crap. I bought my components through one of their US dealers CNC4PC which they are also very knowledgeable and helpful.
Thank you so much for sharing a new resource for the electronics. I will check them out 👍
@@MakerTable It's called UCCNC :)
Thanks for the advise, personally I built a CNC router almost 8 years ago and after taking it through many stages and upgrades it is now and has been for at least 5 years a very powerful and reliable machine used daily. I have never had to change any part of the electronics, it seems I got that right first time. I am about to build my first plasma table and by comparison, it SHOULD be easy after all the loads involved are negligible in comparison. What could possibly go wrong....
I'll be build a plasma table soon as well. Mind sharing your router designs and the electronics you used?
Build your own controller. It’s not hard to figure out. Then you know your setup and can repair it yourself.
And a LOT less expensive.
Thank you standing up for your self finally thank you sir.
Great video, we got a shopsabre 3 years ago and don’t regret it. It’s a tank, and cuts just as good today as it did when I got it. I agree on the slowness and also that it is a workhorse and will keep going.
Maybe slow & steady wins the race in the end.
Should have had a line conditioner, I had similar issues with some equipment until I picked one up. A good line conditioner will drop the variance to +/- 1% or less. Some CNC mills require them and running the mill without them voids the warranty immediately.
Good to know
You inspired me to build my CNC Plasma table! I'm following your channel for more than a year. I decided to build my table as cheap as I can, I 3d printed some parts too, like the CNC router you made. Because I have only a few tools, I hope 3d printing was a good solution. Thanks, Man!
Wow man that is so cool, I'm humbled to hear I played a small part in ur journey to build up ur shop 👍
@@MakerTable Thanks, Man!
i build my own table with command cnc and i love it never a hick up cuts great every time and so easy a child can use it i think my total cost was around 5500 witch payed for itself first month. sucks you had a bad experience but you did get to learn in the process.
That's so rad that you got a good one, I'm happy to hear ur kicking ass with that table over there! I learned a ton doing this whole thing, I'm so glad I had the time to do it!
@@MakerTable I'm glad it works too but it looks different then your box. Now I've built 3 other cncs check out centroid controller
You probably have the Windows based controller, this is the Linux one. I'll check out centroid rn, thanks for the tip!
@@MakerTable no mine is linux cnc just mine has just a box not that flat style. the centroid acorn is amazing for mills
Real life Mario with that stash, Love it lol
We got a shop sabre router with a tool changer. That thing is a beast. I wouldn't expect any less from their plasma tables
Thank you very much your story is very inspiring, I’m debating about build or buy, I realized that if I’m building a cnc router/plasma table I’ll spend so much time into the unknown and I will still be making parts just as a hobbyist I don’t think I have the time to do that anymore I’m not getting any younger, in the other hand I wish I could buy a machine like you did so I can spend time designing parts like in production mode and find a product I can sell or make for somebody else. Thanks again I admire your work, blessings 👍👍👍
Thank you for being really honest on building your own table, I see now you just need to buy quality from the start. Thank you very much.
Buy your last tool first...if & when you can.
When i have built my first table i used Candcnc DTHCIV. That old guy who owns the company is ridiculous. You are absolutely right, if something goes wrong they blame you. So after candcnc product i moved to Neuron THC ( russian thc )coupled with UCCNC ( hungarian software). Winner. Absolute never ever had problem. . Now i build cnc plasma only with industrial controls from Startshaphoon. Well just for the 2 cents, if you visit a big Company with large CNC oxy fuel and High Def Plasma you rearly see a PC monitor next to the machine :). By the way, you did great job on that CNC table building. You can't blame yourself for buying 2 of the CommandCNC. You were just lured by that THC like me before.
I also run a Neuron thc with UCCNC :) can really recommend, not the cheapest option, nor super expensive, certainly good value for money :)
1.) building table made u who u r.
2.) get the old table running correctly. Have it still making you money. Its bought and paid for, get different electronics.. i am into 3d printing, sure there are other makers for controls now.. its blowing up.
3.) new subscriber👊
Thanks bro! I'm getting the old table back together right now to trade it for a CNC tube cutter. Thanks for the sub!
Thanks for the video. We are just in the process of buying our first cnc table so any direction is always appreciated.
Cheers for re-enforcing what we already now!.... but will have forgotten again by the next time it matters :(
I can fully relate to this. In some ways you helped inspire me to build by plasma table and I have had a lot of problems with it. So far it is working good but I really don't expect it to last. I don't regret building it, it was really good experience but, its definitely worth it to buy and off the shelf table. Thanks for sharing.
Your last few videos have really stepped up man. Thanks for bringing us updates. Glad to see your business taking off! Best wishes to you and your family during the next year and beyond!
Thank you, I really went back to the drawing board with the video production. I got some better equipment and got some more skills on the editing side. I hope you have a great year as well!
Awesome information non sugar coated.! If you're doing it for a business investment go with the pro engineered tool . It's a fun project I also built one as a hobby watching your vids and others .Many many headaches ! Got it to cut perfect then the machine decided to forget everything with all my staring at the computer screen for hours got her back then sold that b**** . I get enough headaches from regular work lol :) I wish sucess for your business and Happy New year !
Ha ha ha, yeah I've had those same moments with my table. Happy New Year!
Hey man good video and great info. It looks to me why you’re going thru tips is because the torch height is too high. I have a hypertherm also
A 900. When ever cutting with plasma all sparks should be shooting down under the plate you are cutting. When i cut even with hand held
I dont even need goggles because all sparks have to stay below the piece to get quality cuts.
In this video the sparks are shooting up and that just kills tips right away and thats also what starts causing the cuts to go on an angle on the edge like you showed. Let me know if this helps.
How do you keep the rails/bearings/gears from destroying themselves due to all the metal dust everywhere?
We do clean up on the precision rails between every sheet. They get brushed off an hit with a light oil. Then the bearing blocks get greased on a preventative maintenance schedule.
Loved the video. Side note though. No one who uses this to put food on the table should be building their own plasma table. Support will take forever or be nonexistent as you found out. While you will pay for a premium for a thermal dynamics or victor table, you will more than make up the cost in downtime and longevity.
Now if you're a hacker or a student who's doing it as a hobby or a learning experience, can't beat a build!
Interesting lot of Vids. Arrived because of your older how to Flux Core Mig and have enjoyed a partial trawl through your Plasma Build to this one. 👍Currently unbuilding a Chinese 6090 Router into a small Plasma table for my shack - What could possibly go wrong 🤣
Great video (first one of yours that I’ve watched)! It has to be difficult to talk about this but it really goes to show you how being brutally honest with how we evolve can only be a positive thing. Thanks for the video, these are things I’ll be considering when it’s time to add CNC plasma.
Thank you very much! Some of my old stuff is pretty rough but I'm keeping it all up cuz it's part of the journey. Got to be brutally honest to cut through the noise on here.
Maker Table, Thank you for your very honest and Frank thoughts and insights on this subject!
I am in the process of thinking about a CNC Plasma cutter as a build or buy conundrum. This has given a huge amount for me to mull over before I jump in at the deep end!
I wish you all the best for the future in business and life.
Cheers from John, Australia. PS thumbs up for an excellent Video.
Hi John, Mike from Australia also. We build ours for way less than 13K using LinuxCNC and Mesanet cards.
'dumb enough to buy two of them' had me dying
Good time to clean those rails or it will go down those bearings are not cheep. If use shop air to clean them don't blow in to the seals use a tooth brush to clean them. Also if you have not already a HYPERTHERM 220777 electrode they do last longer.
I love my canacnc table! Thank you tom caudle for your excellent support!!!!!!
I finally got my candcnc table running right after 1.5 years of struggling. It would cut but voltage at the cut would throw my thc into fits. Collisions at the tip,climbing up into infinity,hundreds of dollars of material and consumables wasted...it came down to one little detail. I was grounding the ohmic sensor directly to the consumable nozzle. That was sending volts from plasma through ohmic aaand causing ohmic to stay tripped as soon as plasma was powered up. With a thermal dynamics machine torch you need a shield nozzle to isolate torch tip from ohmic voltage and vise versa.
Glad it only took you a year and a half to get it worked out, sounds like I gave up too soon.
@@MakerTable sounds like you got schooled
I also built my own table. I put all the electronics together from various places. I also now feel like if i had the money i would have bought a turn key, ready to go machine. Its always something and i also lost a plasma cutter, a torch height control card and a ethernet smooth stepper card due to lighting. Everything gets unplugged when im done for the day. I was buying pieces as i went but i feel like i havent saved any money compared to buying a machine outright.
Same conclusion here. Thanks for sharing your experience!
Sucks about the control box. I think the waviness of the cuts was probably due to the backlash introduced by the worn set screw/shaft. One thing that sticks out even with the new machine is the amount of fine metal dust coating every surface. That can't be good for long term reliability. I've seen some plasma's with a silicone type shield that goes over the torch. I wonder if that would help cut down on the dust. Anyway thanks for the honest feedback.
You're 100% correct about the backlash in the gear reduction units. They work loose over time and exacerbate the THC issues to create a perfect storm of terrible cut quality. I have seen those silicone shields too, it's probably worth a shot. Thanks for the ideas!
Have you looked at the planetcnc controller and proma thc? And maybe change the gantry cross beam out for aluminum?
Man im devastated i just finished a one year odyssey building my command cnc table based off your table build the only things i did differently was i saw how you struggled with the tapping the holes for the gantry axis so i opted for the aluminum 8020 extruded gantry and i didnt buy the belt reduction. i struggled with getting adequate cut speeds due to using an older thermal dynamics cutter with no good charts to guide me in set up. of course i discovered my commpressor was underpowered but luckily i had 50 amp service to my plasma machine in advance so i didnt have to hire an electrician. i will absolutley lose my mind if i have to buy another plasma tabel within a year.
I totally feel your pain brother! I wish I had better news for you but this is the realization I came too after may hard fought battles with this company. I know some people have had better luck with these controllers but it has not been my experience. I say run that sucker into the ground and don't take any crap from those guys when it's time to get a repair. I'm still trying to find a good off the sheld controller package to recommend but I'm a little gun shy after the last one. Best of luck, keep pushing. If you have the guts to build a CNC table you've got what it takes to make it to the next level regardless of the controller.
dude there's like always lightning in Tennessee! Dang that would really tick me off
I think main problem with Command CNC, it's not designed for welding shop operation / CNC controller should use high voltage logic gates, voltage spike protection and etc /
But this is the thing u have some experience of building it yr self and that is the beauty about it even though it came at a price you know how everything comes together which is what I would like to do to share what I know with others out there world wide to any one who would like to do the same as I or you urself you could even draft up plans giving everyone else some ideas how it is built at least the the table ??
Also Get the cables off the gear rack on the transverse on the gantry
That command cnc box.....is that the same as the blade runner that candcnc.com sells?
What is your opinion of the crossfire? And torchmate as compared to yours. Or what other cnc would you reccomend. Thankyou and God bless you
It's hard out there for a pimp. Keep pushing man, you're in the lead. Don't look back.
Exactly playa!
I have only seen 2 of your other videos and so I am new to the channel. I am an electrician by trade specializing in control with a background in computers. I like what you are doing and the business you have built up but I think you are not truly comparing apples to apples. Now i have never used commandcnc and no nothing about them, but they did not build table you did. You can not expect them to send a tech to fix your table. Now they should give you the benefit of the doubt and provide better support on the controller. You get what you pay for and as a diy maker you are on your own. So you spend more money and buy a compleat table and get compleat service. Now at the end of the video you talk about the new table is slower and you can not fix it. OF COURSE YOU CAN NOT CHANGE THE MAIN SETTINGS. That is what keeps the machine running. If you start changing speeds like your homemade machine you will kill that table too. One last comment is the dirty condition of your machine and the computer sitting right next to it. That dirt anddebrie from the cutting process is getting inside that PC and will destroy it. I think it would be wise to be some better house keeping rules in place. One last note with out seeing your setup and knowing for sure, I beleave the zaxis height control board was being destroyed do to transient voltage and frequency spikes from the torch power supply itself in the torch hight voltage sense line. If you better isolated and decoupled this line it would help. but again that's just a guess with out seeing your setup.
I'm an electrician as well.. industrial control, instrument, medium and high voltage. I built mine just as he did.. personally I've never replaced a single part on my commandCnc controller.. just a power supply in the PC. I like to think that the experience and knowledge I have as an electrician allowed me to produce better results than most people... But most people, intended viewing audience; need the real world advise He's conveying. I honestly agree entirely with your take on this... But I also believe commandCnc was represented honestly in his point of view. I do understand how commandCnc gets with dealing with customers... Because most people don't read... Don't study .. don't troubleshoot.... They just expect to make a call and get their problem solved... But cnc is not always plug n play.
I could literally write a book on the building process, ups and downs, hurdles etc.. but He pretty much summed it up in his video... Average people need plug n play. It's that simple.
I love your honesty. I'm super proud of the business you've built for yourself. I watched you from almost the very beginning. If i were you I'd get a lighter gantry for the old table and buy a Cand CNC controller for it and get it back up n running. A light gantry is key to speed and acceleration on these things. I built my own table too, just as a fun thing to do. I learned a lot and I would probably do it again. I seriously think you get the other table going witha better controller and a lighter gantry. Then you'd have 2 machines going. I think you can get your new old plasma table back up n running with a new Hypertherm for about $5000, at the most. If the table is still good and the drive train is still good. You can use your old table with the lighter gantry for cutting the thin materials.
Great idea! I think I'm going to turn it into a laser box cutter for our shipping boxes. That bypasses the THC that normally blows up sp we'll see how long they last LOL
Wasn't their old controller from CandCNC? Replacing the gantry with an aluminum structure would lighten it considerably.
Hell go carbon fiber.
@@dahveed284 Maybe it was. Commandcnc is an open source controller software made to run on linux. The controller I use from candcnc implements mach3. I did have problems with mine in the beginning but out was due to the Chinese plasma cutter I was intending to use with it...the high frequency start fried a few boards. When I switched to a hypertherm pm85, those problems went away.
If you need another table give us a call at Dynatorch CNC Plasma Tables. We're located here in Huntsville Alabama.
Thank you for the advice could you tell me which are the best starter cheaper and reliable brands ?
Command CNC has been great on my Arclight Dynamics table
I'm honestly happy to hear that, good luck in all ur ventures 👍
The table is not a dead loss for someone who wants one as it could be fixed up and improved, you spent a lot of effort making it, obviously one would buy a portable plasma cutter like HyperTherm to use on it instead of the junk electronics you spent a fortune on, i would still like to have a go and make my own table as i like to make things from everyone else's ideas plus my own combined.
All depends on your skill sets and experience. It takes a good amount of time, trial and error, if you are not involved in industrial fabrication or have cnc machine experience and the tools at your disposal, that you are able to use. Average Joe not involved in these things, it is good sound advise to buy rather than build a cnc plasma table.
The things he mentioned as difficult are things taught in first- or second-year college physics, stem from the size of the machine, and/or aren't deal-breakers outside of a production environment. Yeah, experience with robotics/CNC/etc and having a shop full of specialized tools certainly makes things easier/cheaper, but with the explosion of resources available to DIYers these days, even Average Joes might be able to build time/cost-effective "garage-grade" plasma cutters.
I built my own and tried cncandc took all off the table tossing into the trash can and went to my own system mach 3 and gecko g540 I was up and running in 2 hours. So I know your pain.
Dang! I wish I had the knowledge I have now, probably would have gone the same route. What did you do for THC?
@@MakerTable proma 150 thc price make one to that I am impress with to
Today I working on a masso controller stand alone system just bring in the tap file to cut. This probably will take me couple days to get running.
Thanks, this video kinda hit the spot for me as I just started a side business with my TruCut XT machine. I'm pretty happy with it after 3 months but am thinking a bigger machine in the future. My thoughts had been that JD Squared & Shop Sabre appear to have the best built tables mechanically speaking. I'm not so sure I like the software platform so much. I'm using Mach 4, may not be great but it's all I know at this point. I like Sheetcam and Vectric ok for CAD/CAM. Would love to hear more about the limitations with the software you said was slower. I like to be in full control, one reason I don't use Iphone...LOL
I'm still trying to figure out how to speed up that machine but all the features are buried in the directory files so I haven't had time to play with it/mess it up
Very sad story, I cannot comment but only to say or share from us older guys research. We wish you the best.
Thank you so much, it's some hard won experience but that's life. I just wanted to share this to potentially save someone else the same experience. Happy New Year!
@@MakerTable Yes and you really should be MAD, bad business policies they are out there you found one we have had few as well then there is me over here saying "this will not happen again" and then it does, so I get it and it really sucks but I think, no I know you will blast right past this and move on to continue to prevail and we will be one of many right here to watch your videos and see how things grow. Happy New Year.
Thank you for that. Im stuck with the same conundrum and down here in New Zealand everythings twice the price....... im building mine. I also need some education so battling through building it will be educational.
So, knowing what you know now, you couldn't build a decent diy setup that would hold up (provided you make improvements/modifications where necessary)?
How about mounting a drill next to the plasma cutter that can drill out a hole at the start of each cut so you don't have to do any piercing cuts with the plasma?
Super cool Adam! I remember you telling me all a out your plasma table when you first got it set up. Sucks that the controller has been such a pain. Still really impressive though. I definitely gotta make some time to come check out the new location. Keep on kicking ass man!
Thanks Chad! Find another welding project and you'll have an excuse to come see me 😁
@@MakerTable I have many!! 1 in particular that I'm gonna see if you would want to help me with. I want to build a raised lid for the trailer. Would ideally like it to be built out of aluminum. I've got some ideas drawn up in cad. I'll reach out to you soon to see if it's something you'd like to help me with.
I build a LinuxCNC Plasma with Mesanet cards, never had any trouble in close to 8 years. It really sounds like Command CNC are the problem here.
Dang, I assumed the main reason most people would want to build their own plasma CNC table was for the $$ savings. $3500 just for the controller?????? Kind of blows my mind that anyone would spend that much on a table of this size and build quality.
That’s the problem and difference between 17-20k in one shot, and 17-20k grand pieced mailed it’s a lot easier to do it with a family in pieces slow.
If you still have the old table would it be worth converting to oxy fuel to pursue cutting heavier parts? You should be able to get by with out the height controller that blows out, and the slower speeds should keep the gantry alive.
Great idea! I am going to turn it into a laser cardboard cutter to make our shipping boxes!
Maker Table that’s pretty damn cool too!
I saw those carboard box making machines at Fabtech and it got my brain rolling around on the idea
Nice stache.
$3500!!! EACH!! Ouch. Thanks for following up though!
Good Video 👍. Couldn't agree more with everything you said! Happy to see you doing well.
Did you have cables coiled like that when you were operating the machine? If so, then you DEFINITELY share some of the blame for your controller problems. Another term for "coiled cable" is "antenna," and another term for "plasma cutter" is "high-powered EMI generator." If your torch lead or power supply got anywhere near those coils, you could easily have ended up inducing enough voltage/current on a signal cable to blow circuits.
Also, for future reference, voltmeters are pretty inadequate tools for measuring for power quality. Yeah, they show you long-lasting spikes/drops, but they DON'T show you transients, which plasma cutters produce like crazy and can be both harder to protect against and more damaging. Your voltmeter might not feel a microsecond-long spike to 200V, but something else sure might. I doubt the power coming out of the wall was the problem (if it were, the controller's power supply would probably fry before anything else), but a voltmeter reading 118V isn't going to convince an electrical engineer that all is well.
Thanks for the info, I had no idea a multimeter wouldn't show spikes. That was the best thing I could think of to show the manufacturer that I had normal power.
As far as the coils. I learned that lesson along the way and had all cables run flat. Shieled wires for every connection. Two 8 foot grounding rods driven 24 ft apart. Battery backup UPS. Put the plasma power supply 6 ft away from the table. PC/controller 6 ft away from that. I felt like I was chasing ghosts LOL!
Wouldn't most modern multi-meters (not sure what was used in this video) have a record of the min/max figures reached even for milliseconds
@@ricbarker4829 Well, it's been at least 10 years since I went shopping for a multimeter, so maybe, but the one in the vid doesn't look like something that could measure transients even in the millisecond range. However, I think for this work, you'd need to measuring in the MICROsecond range, which is a very different ballgame, and one I'd be shocked to see a multimeter enter. It's a lot more expensive and, at best, useless for 99% of multimeter users, so I suspect that such measurements are still firmly in the domain of oscilloscopes.
I think it depends on your skill set whether its cheaper to build a table or buy one turnkey. I built my 4x8 for under 4,000 including the plasma cutter.
and thats the skinny....skill set
I've seen a few cnc home built plasma tables that are still going, so maybe you can do it if you do really thorough research on it?
This guy is a shop owner who’s used to paying a lot of money for other people to make things work. He didn’t go into this as a hobbyist doing his research.
TL:DW - CandC sucks as a controller, and I made my Gantry too heavy for the drive system I chose. So I paid $17k+ on a complete new table and don't recommend you building your own because buying the same b.s. $3k CandC controller over and over, and and not upgrading my drive system didn't work for me.
One day I'll have room for a small hobby plasma table, one day...
Dream big buddy!
Bevel can also be related to parts inside torch head.
And speed of cut air flow at torch or has depending on the application lol
You inspired me to build my own table, but I have looked at it alot. But a long way from finishing. Same thought we cant spend 15 to 20k for table.
It's totally possible to make the leap with a DIY table, obviously. But improve on this build, go extruded aluminum on the gantry and get a better controller. I know flash cut makes a better controller but it's also more expensive.
Great video! I want to see how cheap I can build a plasma table to use it a few times with no intention of making $$$ (except on adsense or affiliate sales). If I ever decide to make $$$ with a plasma table I will pay you for your time to chat with you before trying anything. Thanks -John
Hey Maker: Sad that was your experience. I am glad you shared your thoughts at this point. This video has been a great sanity check for me.
Please do not feel bad about what I am about to share: I followed your videos when you were building. I had mine up within about 3 weeks of starting much of it thanks to being able to see your trials and tribulations. I was happy with your videos....on the table. The outfit that I bought the rest of the components from (same outfit as you bought from)….not happy at all.
Broadly, it feels like everything is kludged together. I found the system to be fragile. I hate the idea of used computers being the basis of things. The controller seems like it was a refurbished controller. Tech support...I think one guy was pretty decent...the other not worth the time. This is the perfect system for someone who doesn't want to cut with plasma...but wants to geek out on the electronics.
When I built the table...I did a few test cuts and then did exactly one 'free' sheet of golf course signs for a local charity golf tournament. The system would not boot afterwards. I sent it back...turn around was about 3 weeks. When I received it I immediately I did a few tests cuts. Next day I booted it up...nothing. I told them I wanted a new computer...and I would pay for a new computer. After a month of them telling me I did not know what I was doing...I still did not have a new computer and no working plasma table. I threw a sheet over it and have not looked at it since March of 2018. One thing that irritated me was I actually know Linux...they were treating me like I was a complete NOB. I was into Linux before it had a GUI. Anyway...I digress.
I have no problem cutting my losses...If anyone wants this complete table (less the Hypertherm)...I will let it go for 30 cents on the dollar right now. I am near El Paso, TX. Video of first test cuts here: ua-cam.com/video/np1-jFYG03Y/v-deo.html
At this point: I am curious about what you went to.
My requirements are: I need something that is robust, durable, and non-buggy. I want it to work when I want to work....I don't want to be constantly trouble shooting it or talking to tech support (especially a prick who thinks I am a stupid F). If it is a robust system then I wont' be talking to tech support. I am not actually hanging out a shingle for custom cnc plasma work...I am using it in house for light fabrication. I have to cut up 1" reasonably 'close enough'. I would like to do bolt ready holes in up to 3/8. I do not care if the table is a little slow...as long as it is reasonably accurate, reliable and trouble free. I currently have a Hypertherm65 which I would recycle into a new table.
With your experience...how do I get to that level? Or am I stuck having to go to a $100,000+ system to do about 80 hours of cutting per year?
I enjoy your channel...and have learned a lot from you over the last year. Keep up the great work! I wish you success and happiness in the future years to come!
Thanks brother, I feel all your pain. I went with a Shop Sabre table that definitely doesn't run $100k. JD2, Torchmate and Shop Sabre all make similar quality machines and back it up with decent tech support. I like Shop Sabre's tech support best so I went with their machine. There are some other options to just retrofit the electronics on your existing table because it sound like you have the controlled motion part down. Flashcut CNC seems to be the most industrial style electronics package out there that will plug into your system. Give them a shout, they're very helpful and knowledgable.
@@MakerTable
Thank you for your reply.
I sent them an email. I really do appreciate your hard work and transparency!
Any comments about the Langmuir systems Crossfire CNC Plasma Table?
I love the price point and the approach to make something for the hobby/garage guy. I haven't run them personally so I can't speak on quality or work flow but I'm excited to see more people get access to this technology.
hi im in the uk i want to build a 2x2 or a 2x3 for personal projects cutting a maximum thickness of 10mm stainless steal would you say it would be cheaper to build a table this small where the cutting thickness will be no more than 10mm or to buy 1 , any info would be greatly appreciated
Killer video man. Thanks for all the info. Much appreciated
How much was the Sabre table to buy vs. cost of the one you built? im in about the same boat here, would like to build one to keep cost down to see if theres a market for it in my area.
Thanks for sharing this very practical video with us. I watched the whole thing, & it was
enlightening. I guess if you can buy CNC plasma table and make payments, that's
ultimately the better way to go eh?
If you are driving too much weight the electronics are overloaded. What is the current (amp) load on the motors moving all that heavy hardware around? Your table looks more like the heavy-duty steel tubing used to build commercial gym equipment. You are a little fast to blame the supplier, especially after admitting you used lightweight gear reducers. All you've learne dis you don't understand loads and power.
Try keeping that machine clean, if you want it to last...
Man we have such similar issues I can really relate. I designed mine to be able to put a router on eventually and made the gantry too heavy. I have the older bladerunner setup that came out about a year before the commandcnc stuff that was supposed to be better. Which I had actually been contemplating buying a while back because my machine has had an issue ever since new where the torch will cut off but the machine keeps moving. After half an inch the torch turns back on and makes for a day of babysitting to restart the line where it screwed up. I got another computer a couple of weeks ago from a buddy and it seems to be better but still has issues.
The reason I got the bladerunner was everyone talked about how great the support is but I agree it isn't there. I've emailed on about 6 different issues and every time after 2 emails from them on a topic they stop responding all together.. So I guess you have to figure it out in 2 emails or they move on and your left scratching your head.
I've been reworking everything I can to make it perform better (revamping the gantry) because I am planning on making it a full time gig as well and I'll be buying my next one as well. Not sure what brand yet but it won't have candcnc attached to it.
Is the Shop Sabre stepper motor or servo? Is the lack of speed do to the cut speed or something else?
If you get a minute I have a build page but I lost a bunch of the pictures do to a broken phone. You may have to sign up but they won't spam you to death. Plus there are a lot of people willing to share their knowledge from plasma makers, cad, and cam issues. www.cnczone.com/forums/plasma-edm-other-similar-machine-project-log/186052-4-x-8-plasma-table.html
Wow man, I feel your pain in all of this. Sounds like a pretty typical experience.
The ShopSabre is glass encoded servo motors. I think the cut speed could be fixed with some tweaking of the touch off sequence and a few other .ini files but I just don't have the time to crack into it and do some serious testing.
Thanks for the additional resources, that is the next step for me. Finding another DIY supplier that I can recommend with confidence. Keep pushing brother!
@@MakerTable You're welcome man love to see entrepreneurs do well! That site has tons of different forums. I still go back and search for things and try to help out others just getting started.
Is your shop sabre pretty similar in the process from cad to cut as your DIY table?
@@FTWarr yeah the work flow is similar to the DIY table but I miss using sheet cam. I'm forced to use enroute w the shop sabre and it wasn't made for plasma so it's a little clunky. But I've gotten pretty efficient in there by now 🍾
would also be worth trying to keep your shop or even just the area you have your cnc plasma table a lot lot cleaner! I would also recommend you clean out your table water and keep it fresher. the amount of splatter over everything isn't helping longevity or reliability by having all that over your table components like the lead screws etc and into your ways and slides. It's basically abrasive paste covering all your parts.
You want to improve your business or grow, thats good, but what I have said above is exactly the sort of things the larger professional machine shops will be doing and for good reason. TPM, reducing downtime, keeping a clean workplace, 5S, all key things to keeping an efficient shop. I don't know your own background or knowledge level, but hopefully you just arent aware or have had experience in these things yet and are willing to implement them.
It would be worse if you knew these principles but ignored them. It's funny when people just crap on things they dont understand or think that its nonsense, which unfortunately is so common place in machine shops and engineering workplaces.
good luck with the new table.
Thanks for the input! I grew up in a three shift manufacturing plant so we practice the LEAN manufacturing methodology here. We keep good track of our PM's but we have room for improvement on the the 5S's particularly Shine. We burn through bearing blocks because of our lack of cleanliness. We've implemented some new processes when we load new sheets and we're tracking run hours per bearing block to measure the results of our new process. I know we're not perfect, but we can get better every day.
We are always trying to improve down here. I cover Kaizen principles most mornings on my Instagram story. The next step is working it into some of the videos on here so other people can benefit. Thanks for your input!
@@MakerTable at least you guys are aware and are doing something to help the situation which is half the battle! I just felt it was worth commenting since I saw the issues you were having on your old table and just saw your new table was getting pretty mucky looking.
I know plasma and waterjet tables are inherently quite messy processes but for that very reason I would have our guys give the head's a once over at the end of their shifts just to keep the worst off. Means they never get that super heavy build up and then we keep a TPM schedule in place for both to keep them tip top, obviously as well as a full spares store kept on a kanban list.
I know it's tough when you're working day to day to implement new intiatives, but obviously can't be overstated to keep your money makers in tip top condition.
You'll get there man, one step at a time. table looks great too, a solid bit of kit.
@@joeshaft Thanks for the thoughtful feedback, this is the stuff that gets you to the next level! We schedule PM's but we're still looking at the bearing blocks as unscheduled downtime because we don't have enough data to implement a change over based on expected life expectancy. So I have a MOQ set for the bearing blocks and grease but the ultimate goal would be to get this on a Kanban card and schedule it during non critical operation hours. I never thought about spares being on a Kanban Card though, I'll have to put some more thought into that. I'm self taught on the LEAN stuff and I find it hard to bridge the gap between theory and practice sometimes.
@@MakerTable I don't think you ever stop learning about lean or the methodologies etc. it's a never ending learning curve in my experience! I have always found a great help by applying it to lots of different industries and you get to see the quirks of each and how best to apply the techniques, certainly been a massive help in my career. if you tackle a big lean project or improvement, it would be cool to see a video of that
@@joeshaft great idea, almost like a documentary of a six sigma green belt project. I'll have to think about ways to make that interesting.
I really appreciate your insight and honesty.
JD square is table I in my shop hands down best tech support.
Keep the good work 👍
That's great info, thanks for sharing with everyone!
Do run a air dryer and filter
Adam great video. Keep them coming.
Thanks man, I'm dropping a video every Saturday again!
Thank you for what you do. This is how the market works.
I sure wish I had the space to put a cnc table with my everlast plasma cuttter.
Thanks For the Info...really good information. You answered many questions
I like your efforts,,
Dude its crazy that you went with such expensive equipment that didn’t even work properly. Regulated power supplies, cheap reliable drivers-you could buy all of that stuff on Amazon to drive your machine and have it actually work for way less.
I appreciate you creating and posting your videos but, I have to I give a thumbs down on this one and I'll explain why. Firstly, I feel this is a sales pitch for Shop Sabre for a kick back. You are praising the quality of it and it hasn't been 2 years like your original table. You had good cuts with your original table at least for a while. Your original story on building your table convinced me to build the same table with no regrets. You built a stout machine for the what you could afford to get started in the biz so, I didn't like how you then bash the machine you built after running it for mass production and at higher cut speeds than your $17k+ Shop Sabre and then things became loose. The pinion gears are supposed to be installed with bearing lock to prevent the looseness you experienced. Also, for the best accuracy, you should keep your equipment more protected from dirt and such for many reasons. The spaghetti wiring, that's for the installer/builder to organize. Mine is mounted inside the box tubing of the frame out of sight and harms way. Command CNC does have it's faults but, at the time it was the system you could afford. When comparing buying a new Shop Sabre @$17,000+ or the other table, the cost of your compressor, plasma cutter, shop updates, etc. should not be included in your build price of $13,500. No table will include a compressor and shop updates,Lol! So, $13,500 for your build was exaggerated. I had to buy all my steel and built a 4x8' with a built-in water tank, Hypertherm 45XP with full hookup(CPC,Hy-T control) CommandCNC Bundle ($2999, not $3500) for under $9500. That was almost half of your Shop Sabre. Just because you have progressed to higher production and can afford a complete factory made system that suits "your" needs of today, don't crush peoples dreams or mislead them from considering this DIY table or the one that is already built if that's all they can afford. Your videos are very influential and you probably have more viewers at this lower price point. I mean no disrespect, just my opinion.
Well, that's a solid explanation for a thumbs down. All I got on my video was a guy saying "That dislike was me 😎" lol
Hey man thanks for the honest feedback. I need to say that first off this is not a kick back video for Shop Sabre, they have never paid me a dime. I actually took all of their marketing off of my table and replaced it with my own 😁 I didn't mean to bash the DIY guys, I am a DIY guy. I could have wired it better, I could have kept it cleaner and I did run production on it for a while. BUT I had to drive from TN to TX every 2 months to get the controller rebuilt, I also had to burn the red lock tight out of the gearboxes to get them retightened every 3 months or so, argue w CandCNC every week to get some assistance, buy an entire 2nd set of controllers and motors because CandCNC doesn't just sell the controller as a standalone unit or rent a hypertherm to prove to them that it wasn't my plasma cutter that was causing the issue w their controller, etc. etc. etc. I want people to know everything that can go wrong with one of these things so they can make the best decision. It took me 2.5 yrs to save enough money to buy those first parts and build that table. I'm so glad I did, but if I had already figured out a working business model that needed a table for production I wouldn't have made it. I also didn't mean to give an inflated number for the price, I thought I was being more honest by sharing all the costs associated. You can't use a plasma table without a plasma and compressed air. CNC plasma cutting has changed my life, I want more people to get into it. I want to teach people everything I have learned so they can make a better decision than I did. I don't want to knock anyone with a DIY table or anyone trying to get into the shop and make things. I've got some great ideas about how to make a better CNC table, I just need to find a way to make it at an affordable price. Happy making, I appreciate ur thoughtful feedback 👍
@@MakerTable so all in all, the table itself wasn't really the issue, it was the electronics. I understand Flashcut is a better system but about double the price. So, it's worth mentioning building that table with those electronics may have been a much better choice.
Exactly, controlled motion was not a major issue and accuracy was good to under 1/16". The whole thing came down to the THC card on the controller. It was somehow tied into the rest of the system so every time that card blew all the motors would lock up so I couldn't even bypass it and limp along. I tried to buy the 2nd controller so I could blow up one and send the other out for repairs but I somehow managed to blow up both at the same time over and over again. I'm currently testing the star fire controller from China. Piranha and Laguna both use them on their industrial tables and it's more affordable than the CandCNC or Flashcut system.
I can recommend a THC from Neuron CNC. I use the Neuron Lite personally and it's integrated in the motion contol software (UCCNC), which works really good :)
Wow, Should have watched my channel first .... sorry you got taken to the cleaners soooo badly.
I am glad that in the end it all worked out and you are making money now!
I feel the same way the guy was a total douche bag to me. When I tried to communicate my issues.
Great info I'll use
need to clean your tools man. they will last a lot longer if you look after them
I also watched your videos an built very similar 5x10 table, however my controler box look different. I have a super z axis an my box is square an white, is it different than yours? So far i have no problems but only have cut about 8 full sheets of steel.
That's their windows based controller mine is Linux based but both are made by the same company. I wish you the very best of luck! Thank you so much for watching and taking it to that next level 👍
Thanks for sharing this. Great insights into what matters for these machines and for business.
You should lease to own if you don't have the money up front. If you are going to build make a cheap version, like absorber of light youtuber his cost 300$ to make .
great info
thanks