I loved this "documentary". Whether it was accurate or not, it did depict that life is not black and white. Many of the people we admire have their dark sides just like any other ordinary person.
The last great TDF rider to win clean in the 1990s was Greg Lemond. Even at his best his average power output was 410. In comparison, Froome was 414. All the other winners in the 1990s up to 2006 were tainted with power output as high as Riis 479 and Indurain 450 who were regarded as mutants. Post EPO Armstrong 438, Contador 435, maybe not mutants but still ridiculously high.
@Charles Gosnell Lance Asteriskstrong tested positive twice (cortisone in 1999, EPO in 2001), and when USADA applied his old samples to new tests, over 80% were positive. Lemond also had a VO2 max of 93. The 78 of Asteriskstrong barely got him through a three hour marathon when someone with his accomplishments, if he was clean, could have easily gone under 2:20. Going after Lemond is typical whataboutism.
I feel Cadel Evans was a legitimate winner. He spoke about doping and how frustrated he was with it thoroughly laced into the sport. He had to wait for Armstrong to get out and finally won in 2011. Good for him.
Everyone blames Lance, when in reality many people in the tour de france organization knew something was going on, but they only cared about penetrating the north american market.
@billbobaggins801 bullshit .. no one cared about nationality .. they cared about lying cheating and arrogance. Lance used the "they don't want an America to win" mantra and idiots like you fell for it. I guess Americans really are that guilable ...
WOW Ben Foster has Lance's mannerisms DOWN. Not surprising as Ben Foster is clearly one of the most talented actors alive, but WOW. Spot on. I've never even heard of this film as I've not followed cycling closely for years now, just getting back into it (yay) - I will definitely watch it as soon as I can!
@@jackmiller-johnston8689 wow. its trippy because i could tell his face looked ohysically different as well, not just skinnier - but different. very fascinating
lol can't believe people still go on and defend Lance. "Oh, but they were all doping anyway so..." So fucking what? It's still cheating, regardless of how many others were simultaneously cheating alongside him. He was number one in his sport because of drugs, period. All these "professional athletes" are a bunch of roid heads and I'm not just talking about cycling. Professional sports are riddled with performance-enhancing drugs, it's just some are better at covering their tracks than others. It's sad, kids all over the world look up to and aspire to be just like these frauds.
I thought it was good. Althought I think it was a little bias in trying to depict lance as a bad person, it did have some very powerful scenes about cancer and the difficultys of bike racing and high pressure lose/lose situations.
He was a bad racer, he was a cheat and virtually brought a sport to it's knees. You can't let yourself be the face of a sport and be a cheat. It doesn't make sense.
IN my humble opinion, Walsh is the most important sports journalist of the modern era of sports.I really appreciate his willingness to stand strong and take the hits and keep pursuing the truth.
Walsh is a turd. Pro cycling is still full of dopers today, but for some mysteriou$ reason Walsh doesn't have the interest to go after them with the same energy that he went after Lance.
@@neonnaughtsie4726 uhmm....because Lance won 7 tours and collected hundreds of millions....dude. A journalist has to take a triage approach to the limited number of stories one can write and get published in a professional career - its a no-brainer. You are confusing Journalism with doping control entities.
@@johngoodell2775 What do you mean, "limited number of stories one can write"? Who exactly is limiting journalists like Walsh from doing the investigative journalism they are so supposed to be doing? You mean to tell me cycling is all of a sudden clean? Of course it isn't. So why do we not see Walsh digging up dirty on today's top riders like he did yesterday's riders? What changed, hmmm?
@@neonnaughtsie4726obviously you are not a cycling fan or know anything about this issue. Walsh has written about many other riders , and about doping generally, but his focus on Lance was for patently obvious reasons.... Lance being the top rider in the peleton, one of the most sophisticated dopers, using the most famous doping doctor, wielding the most sponsorship influence, and being the most aggressive and combative conspirator in the doping machine. All of these things are facts.
This was good journalism. I liked it when he said "This one thing we now have to hold onto is our skepticism." When you see someone who was performing a certain way in his field and then later on speeds up to the top of that field and stays consistently there, you first give some congrats and support at that first and second achievement. But when the pattern starts to show a consistency where a consistency really shouldn't be found, then hang on to your skepticism. Barry Bonds and Mark McGwire come to mind. Lance Armstrong is a narcissist and they'll do whatever it takes to be successful and not to ever be proven wrong. Success draws attention and scrutinization and rightfully so. Skepticism is good until the facts prove otherwise or gives us the true narrative of the event. Good journalism. Thanks for this post.
Reizermo Too bad David Walsh isn't a doctor. He'd be even more believable. At least his nose is correctly on the scent of cheaters, coming from four decades of covering cycling. He knows this sport better than anyone and has more credibility than any of the wimpy, crappy, weak doping riders of today.
Where was David Walsh to uncover all the doping happening in cycling. Do you really think that all the past tour the France winner didn’t dope? Miguel Indurain was a Big Dipper. I have a friend that ride with ONCE in the mid eighties and everyone was dopped.
Hell, one can go all the way back to the early 1900's when Tour De France cyclists would medicate themselves during breaks with a mug of beer or liquor. This a clearly a grueling sport and maybe some light-weight sport supplement should be allowed to help cyclist to recover safely.
The movie was OK....that's all. It could have been so much better, since the acting was superb. However, and this is my biggest knock on it, is that the entire time you felt as if ANY ATHLETE that went through the charades of doping would have accomplished what Lance accomplished. We all know this is not the case. Lance was an incredibly gifted athlete to begin with. No way would you ever get that idea from this movie. The drama was also missing. Just an OK film IMO.
@@HkFinn83 And I can say the same thing about 5 time Tour winner Miguel Indurain. Indurain's first two appearances he DNF and in his third appearance he finished 97th place lol.
yet.....it's dirtier than ever. As the science is light years ahead of the testing due to the sheer money involved in winning.!! Those that doubt this are either extremely naive or truly have no clue how top notch sports work whatsoever.
@@zerg9523 Even if you had a "doper race" and a "clean race", it would only be a matter of time before the dopers started infiltrating and winning the clean races. As long as there is a prize to win, there will cheaters. That is why they should just embrace doping. Let it be a free-for-all just like it was in the old days. Cycling was far more interesting and dramatic when they didn't spend all this time and energy worrying about who is and who isn't doping.
Lance has been the scapegoat for the backlash against doping. The fact is that 99% of the men on the podium with him during his most successful years were cheating too. Lance just happened to be the best at it. During those years the cyclists really had no choice. Blame the corrupt and greedy UCI, who cared more about making money than protecting the health of the cyclists and the legacy of the sport.
Gebby Have you even listen to all the facts about the magnitude off his dope and the organisation around him? It was immense and horrifying. He doped on another level and got finally what he deserved.
And the French darling, Richard Virenque, who got his entire Festina team thrown out of the TdF in the middle of the race. Festina was a doping machine. Let’s not forget Merckx and many many others who also were caught doping and banned substances. They’ve always looked for an edge in cycling...guys used cocaine and methamphetamines.
Lance Armstrong doped, but his comeback from cancer and his wins were not due solely to EPO. There were so many factors that Postal did right, including having a man like Lance who was a fierce competitor.
jason schifo Please read Tyler Hamilton’s book and then get back to me. If the whole peloton was clean Lance would have a chance of winning. The peloton has never been clean and never will but systematic blood doping by a whole cycling team is wrong. They done nothing good for cycling.
Eddie Merckx was Busted twice for dope. Out of the 7 TDF wins by LA, 19 of the 21 podiums were busted for dope. I used to buy my cycling gear from an ex-tour pro he told me in his days as a pro they didn't check. I asked what his HTC was ...57 was his answer. That was when several Dutch riders died of heart attack from too thick blood, if you became dehydrated with that high of HTC you were in big trouble. What drives me crazy is the other sports, MLB, NFL, College, and even HS sports are given a pass. I'd guess 2/3 of the league(s) would be gone if they checked everyone. Lastly, there are a lot of people that have gained notoriety from bringing down Lance Armstrong under the guise of "for the good of the sport" yeah, right.
Merckx was actually done four times in races IIRC, Fleche wallone, TDF, I think the Giro and Lombardia, that in an era of hardly any testing. He also introduced Armstrong to Ferrari ... yet no-one says a thing as to how much of a perennial dope cheat Merckx was. I've said elsewhere but Moser had to admit doping before he was exposed and still didn't get punished, Hinault well, a piss take as he refused to test, Indurain could beat the little coulmbians up the mountains but blast evryone on the ITTs. The US cycling team blood doped, all of them, in the '84 Olympics.
@@tonyfranklin8306 Because 70s amphetamins were not the same cattle of fish as epo. Merckx would've been a great champion without doping, Armstrong would've maybe been a stagehunter and winner of one day races, but never the record winner of the TdF. Epo just made him a monster and completely different athlete.
Only because everyone knew he was cheating and people wanted to see what ridiculous height he was going to reach and what lies he was gonna spout .... as a cheat ...
Champion. Hero. Legend. Period. "Cheating" is gaining an unfair advantage over the competition by doing something most are not. Leveling the field by taking the same stuff everyone is taking is not "cheating".
It wasn’t that he cheated it was that he attacked anyone who questioned him and used cancer to hide the truth. “ I nearly died I de never take anything illegal” etc. There’s the issue. I do agree he’s been given worse press than is the truth. Everyone almost to a man was cheating and you either accepted being a no one or you joined in. It must be frustrating knowing people you could easily beat could now beat you etc. Losing his tour titles and millions of dollars is enough it’s time to forgive and move on
If all the pro cyclists are doping at the tour, why is it such a tragedy that one of them wins? Its called competition and each one are doing what it took to compete. No surprise there. Also everyone reacts differently to doping, some it helps and others not much at all. If the testing body could not detect it, then Lance won fair and square against the other dopers. If you cant make the sport clean, you cant complain after the fact. The Olympics where Soviet Union and other countries were wide spread doping and winning. Bodybuilding, boxing, etc... get real. And we single out cycling? What a unfair and farce attitude against cycling.
The fastest guy on EPO is not the same as the fastest guy clean. It is NOT TRUE that if everyone dopes, and no one dopes...the same guy will win. For example. Miguel Indurain. Here are is Tour Results. Pre EPO DNF DNF 96th 74th 17th 10th After EPO 1st 1st 1st 1st 1st 11th Indurain had really large lungs...but his natural physiology could not take advantage of them. If everyone is clean..he never EVER wins a TOUR. With EPO...he wins 5...even though everyone else was also on EPO. It warps the results in an un-natural way Every tour prior to EPO Indurain got dropped by 10-20 minutes (!!) on the Ale D'Huez stage! 10-20 minutes. Every single time from 1985-1990. In the first Tour d'EPO (1991). He finished 1 SECOND behind the winner! He was not the only one doping. All the fast guys were. But the dope helped him WAY MORE. So it is all fake BS.
You're making the mistake of believing that drugs have the same effect on each person's body as well as the mistake of believing that each team was equally skilled in using drugs.
To paraphrase Tim Moore in his book 'Gironimo'- I don't hate Lance Armstrong because he won 7 Tour de Frances', I hate him because he was such an ugly personality
During the nineties and early 2000s no, there wasn't a test for EPO. As soon as there was a test for EPO, Lance Armstrong's historic blood samples were tested and low and behold.. he tested positive
For what? All you have to do is study how they achieve their wins and it is pretty obvious that they are clean. I predict the Tour average speed will be slower this year since the increases have been from shortening the distances. But the climbing stages have been slower. What you can also see is that the teams have all converted to close teamwork with heavy support of the team leader. This makes a far more supporting team for the leader. Lemons had one man supporting him in his first win. This close support idea came from Lance.
The original point of testing athletes was i thought for safety, because we didnt want to see football players hurting others, which in american football is a legit concern, but riding a bike? Come on who is getting hurt?
OK, but why so fixated on one guy, Lance. Even in this little clip he narrated that Lance followed those before him. Was Lance worse than others? I don't know, maybe. But how is everyone else OK? It's clearly between understood and known that other TDF winners were doping. It's quite clear that the UCI at least turned a blind eye and more probable clearly knew. I don't think that Lance should be the number one fall guy in this story that's much larger than Lance. Walsh comes across well, but again he was fixated on one guy (because Lance took a cheap shot in foosball? Who knows why, but he seemed to make it personal. ) and all but missed the larger story. I think we are not even close to any reasonable equilibrium in this whole case.
Michael Buckley he won 7 Tour de France which has never been done by a person who went from having cancer and coming in at 36 in the tour to 1st, 1st, 1st .......... and 4 more
Cycling is a dirty sport, it always has been and they used Lance as a cop out, it's way easier to shoulder the blame on Lance for being dirty, strip him of all his titles and act like all is well. If they stripped everyone who doped, 80% of the winners of the tour would be stripped and they wouldn't have any reputation as a sport.
William Ross more like 99,9% winners. I hate this hypocrisy - all sports should be allowed to use whatever doping there is, just with one rule - do it openly and tell the world what and how much you are taking. Professional sport is long time no more a clean game. But by allowing any doping it can be clean and fair again.
This “everyone is doing it” excuse for LA is crap. The dozens of riders in Tours are not all using PEDS to the same extent. Look at the disparities in pay between team leaders and domestiques. The differences in budgets. LA had resources unique to his status, that were not enjoyed by everybody. In Mercx day it was caffeine and cognac. Everyone could afford it, a lot cheaper than Dr. Ferrari.
it was to dilute the haematocrit count to less than 50%. at that time, there was no way to directly test for EPO, so the rules were that if your haematocrit was > 50%, you cannot race (for safety reasons - risks of clots, strokes). the authorities knew they were all on EPO but could never prove it. hope that makes sense
And you think other sports have not doped? Even the Greeks doped in the early Olympiads, track and field has not just been littered with doping but actually doping to an extent that women have physically changed into men (Eastern bloc field event athletes), doping was so horrendous in track and field that some of the records have been out of reach for decades. Nowadays soccer, tennis, golf get a massive pass because of the money involved. Cycling is the singularly most tested, by a very large margin!
@@ChiTownBrownie89 - Yup...half the Masters fields are old dudes who are not properly declaring their meds that they end up abusing, be it hormone therapy for testosterone, Viagra, or albuterol inhalers, and are not following proper USADA reporting procedure. There is a reason why random masters drug tests rarely happen, and why local race organizers shooaway drug testers for amateur racing. And when they do come, half the field doesn't race.
No, it doesn't. It starts with the kid that steals a cookie. The person that flops on a high school soccer field for a penalty. The crib sheets during an exam you didn't study for. Wanting a chance at that man/woman you think is prettier than your current mate. None of that starts with anyone other than the individual.
@@PittsburghAfterDark Actually, De Dub is correct. Cheating starts at the top and trickles down. The kid who steals a cookie does so because his parents either don't teach him right from wrong or aren't watching him as they should. When you apply this to cycling, it was the governing bodies of the sport, and all the corporate sponsors, who deliberately looked away while all the riders were doping because it was financially in their best interest to do so. As long as the money was rolling in they had no interest in doing anything to rock the boat. It was only when their hand was forced that they bothered to do their jobs. When you create a regulatory entity to regulate a given market or sport, and then make it a point to not actually regulate, you give a green light to bad actors that essentially encourages them to cheat.
I’ll say this, Lance Armstrong is one of the most impressive athletes in human history and he earned that by being a completely savage athlete in the saddle, even if us normal people used all the drugs and programs in the world he’d still beat 100% us. I’m not condoning doping but I am fearful that people think it’s like Super Serum they gave to captain America
I feel there is something very sinister about all this. It likely says more about the narcissistic jealousy of some who cannot bear to see others achieve what they never could themselves. In reality, he didn't care who was drugged up if they came second.
I adored Lance Armstrong....everyone doped then....This guy Walsh was truly after Lance. It is so sad what happened to Lance...I still respect his talent.
Lance treated people like shit. If you treat people like shit the way Lance did, yeah there's quite a big risk someone would want to hit you right back in the face. Vengeance is a hell of a drug.
@@okyouknowwhatever those few who came after Lance as hard as they did didn't interact with him at all, so i guess you mean his teammates who were also doping?? And yes, being a arrogant is part and parcel with the character needed to succeed at that level.
Hopefully more athletes ☝🏼😆🏈⚽️ LMAO Seriously, cheaters have no business being the face of their sport! Period! WTF do you tell your OWN kids, if you're idolized assholes like Lance Armstrong?! That as long as you don't get caught it's ok?! Or if you're still really, really good at the sport anyway, "it doesn't count"?! 🥴🤣 Jesus, do people even have morals anymore, or is it just "anything goes", as long as there's a sh*t-ton of money, fame or power as the reward?! The dude's a dirt bag, and NOT just for the cheating, which honestly, could be easily forgiven. It's the fact that he ruined so many lives, trying to keep it all covered up, and behaved so jaw-droppingly despicable towards others, that now that the facts have come out.... It just looks weird even trying to defend it man. It honestly makes YOU lack integrity. Just sayin.
I'm no defender of LA BUT as Anquetil responded in the 60s: "It takes more than just bread an water to win TDF" [or smt like that]. To win TDF people have to realise that it takes more than than training and a normal diet - it has always, and it will always require that. The best rider on pane e acqua? [bread & water: meaning non-dopers] probably someone from pos. 30 and downwards. We'' never know. Is it sad, or should we rather acknowledge that between the best 10 riders one person is better: the winner !?
A decade of lying, cheating, and bullying...no honor there. A terrible human being...he ruined his life and others doing something as unimportant as riding a bicycle....
Ruined his life LOL. He's a multi millionaire that lives a life of luxury and privilege, Every cent of it is a direct result of illegal activity and fraud and yet he has never been to prison and likely never will, he still has legions of fans and supporters, still holds a celebrity status and what price has he had to pay? a load of people he doesn't give a fuck about hate him. If only I could ruin my life so badly.
@@chris1275cc And that's a very American way of thinking that we can see in some stories such as The Wolf of Wall Street. It's about capitalism in the end, eh? That's the moral of the story: cheat, lie, kill, intimidate, manipulate, put your health at risk or blackmail anyone in order to earn just a little bit more money.
Interesting premise, but every top cyclist was doping.. Riis, Pantani, Ulrich, Contador, Wiggins, Zulle. Only an idiot would believe that Miguel Indurain won Giro and Tour clean back to back.
Hope your sending Lance a piece of the action. Why the year before didn’t you hunt dopers? All the years before and he never tried to clean up cycling. Armstrong was his meal ticket and he milked it. They all doped yet Lance was his target. Not a fan of Sir Profit
Your absolutely right. In 1999 Walsh had been reporting on Cycling for a while. He knew full well what the name of the game was. Cycling is no different that any major professional sport. Why go after Lance if he knew most, if not all the pro peloton was on a doping program. To make a name for himself and to make money of course. He is the one thats really damaged the sport of cycling. He threw the sport under the bus for fortune and fame. Make no mistake, longtime cycling fans know exactly what he did and will always consider him as a traitor Lance did what he had to do, all world tour teams had sophisticated doping programs. You take all the drugs away, guess who would still win
Rich piana was my favorite fullnatty brah bodybuilder just hard work and dedication ... Come on its 2018 all the Big hitters are on drugs It is their job isnt It?
NorwaySummer that’s a very juvenile way to look at it. Lance had the best access to drugs and had the highest quality possible. Not to mention he regularly used his brand to hold the UCI hostage and basically dared them to ruin their sport. He knew they needed him. He got guys kicked out of the sport and ruin people’s lives and families to protect himself. Lance even used to get the UCI to warn people to slow down and stop challenging him or the UCI would test them more until they got the failed test and could suspend the guy. Not to mention lance was given a “suspension” after his 7th title and that’s why he “retired” for a few years. Lance is the biggest cheat in sports history
@@wvu05 What makes you so sure Lemond was clean? Surely you realize the entire peloton was doping during Lemond's winning years, right? Do you honestly think he was able to win three tours against a doped-out peloton while being squeaky clean himself, LOL? If so, I've got a nice bridge for sale.
@@neonnaughtsie4726 There are different levels of doping. EPO didn't become a thing until 1992, and that is when he could no longer keep up. And it has literally never been "everyone has doped." There have always been clean cyclists, even if it was the minority. And saying "He won, therefore he cheated" is just as naive as saying that everyone was clean.
Yes, but the problem is, why going after Amstrong and not the others that actually dope as hell as well? None of the top 20 cyclists don't dope. There is some kind of hypocrisy there. Why taking down Amstrong and not the others? Why Virenque doesn't have his successes canceled during the times he acknowledged having taken drugs. Taking down Amstrong and making him a scapegoat, is the best way for the others to carry one doping. The problem with this journalist is that he wants to take down Amstrong because he was immensely successful, but he doesn't want to end the doping system that is institutionalized. This journalist is not against doping, he is against success. That is a total hypocrite. The reason why Armstrong was successful wasn't only doping. He had incredible capacities (organization, focus, physical abilities, the skills to gather the best ones around him, etc.), which other cyclists completely miss. Doping is just a part of his success not all. Many good cyclists in the peloton would not even have the capability to compete on the tour de France without doping. This journalist is bitter and driven by jealousy and envy. And he hides behind his virtue signaling narrative.
The difference is that Indurain was and is a humble, tactful and generous man. He never pissed anybody off in the peloton. Had Lance had the same approach, he would have kept his 7 TDF wins.
@@polycrase omg! If you knew him you wouldn't say that. He's been that way his entire life. Its his job, and he doesn't care to be your friend or pat you on the back. You get on and shut your mouth and pedal. Thats it,,,,just do your job........
@@crazie429 Sir you did not see the GCN video where the glass door to an internal meeting room could be made opaque on denand Google it. If you can't find the video ... removed??? No. See GCN youtube video Inside the team Sky Bus. OB1 KA no B. That one.
@@anthonythorne8963 LOL why do you think that is significant? If it was just a normal door that is permanently frosted or just made of solid wood it would serve the same purpose BUT would you still be asking this question? The reason is it is not a good idea to let everyone on the staff know team tactics, (which to be fair could include doping) as the staff member could give or even just let slip that information to a rival team.
Lance was the BEST TDF rider in history, EVER, bar none. His arrogance and inability to tell the truth was his downfall. The cycling world needed someone (An arrogant American) to have as a scapegoat. Every single motherfucker racing in that sport was on EPO, low dose roids for faster injury healing, blood doping and that's the fat stinking truth. Lance will forever be remembered as a cheater but in reality everyone else at his level was doing basically the same thing. Lance really was just that good. One of the best, if not the best TDF cyclist ever.
Was Lance wrong yep he was, but no one did any thing until an American started winning to many tour the france’s. I mean you want the truth right, well let’s not pretend this was all about integrity and doing the right thing for the sake of sport and mankind. They knew those other European riders were doping but they did nothing for years! If you want to be truly open and honest don’t just stop with Lance right. Lol
Cheating is cheating. Lance's problem is that he was cast as a hero . BUT -a hero can't cheat like the other mere mortals. Then -he is NOT a hero. That's why he was taken down so aggressively. If he was just another pro racer that no one was familiar with without the whole cancer comeback narrative he probably would have been left alone . THAT -combined with the fact that his REAL problem was that he was greedy . If he had left the sport with a record breaking 6 wins his EPO story would never have seen he light of day. But NO . He had to have 7 wins and then even that was'nt enough. 'Like the OLD saying goes -"Quit while you're ahead" -otherwise things start to stink.
@@sonsoftheedelweiss72 I get your point. But -as I said - if he had been content with his record breaking 6 TDF wins and then exited the scene with all his millions and glory he would never have been investigated because Floyd Landis would'nt have entered the picture. Lance was hooked on the whole scene . The hero worship, the celebrity involvement , the talk shows. The "hypocrites" probably suspected Lance of doping -BUT- and this is a BIG but -Lance was being very good for the sport of professional cycling. They were all lining their pockets because of Lance's fame.
@@sonsoftheedelweiss72 I often ask myself how I would react if I met LA in person. I would try to understand but also try to get the point across that cheating to succeed is wrong -even if alot of others are doing it.
John I think he is human and made a mistake in poor judgement , but at the end of the day as much as I love sports, it’s just a sport, and people need to understand that and not hate him forever for it. I am not perfect and have made a lot of mistakes in my life. He already suffered major consequences for his actions.
There has been scepticism with Froome, thats why he released his race data. Its a lot more difficult now to get away with taking drugs in sport. You see big profile cases like Sharapova and currently with the Russian athletes. Anyone who're taking performance enhancing drugs will be caught now. If they haven't yet, they definitely will be
Cycling's creditably has been permanently damaged, nobody believes anyone is clean these days, I think its only a matter of time before another shit storm comes out.
Lance likes to say "it was a bad time" as an excuse for his horrendous behavior. Let me detail just how Lance was so much worse than anyone he raced against. First and foremost, Lance Armstrong is a CRIMINAL, you can watch him commit perjury on UA-cam... he abused the legal systems of several countries... failed false claims of slander and libel... and infringement on the civil rights of Americans. Not to mention the fact that the UCI gave him special treatment. Lance Armstrong is the very definition of evil.
@@robinmcewen3286 Yes . I was a big fan of L.A. and for a blink in time he made cycling , especially in America, stupendously exciting while behind the scenes, unbeknownst to many, all was askew. Cycling has not been the same for me , Lance committed unforgivable sins with his destruction of lives .
senorboardhead they weren’t all using the same way though. Lance had access to every drug, access to the UCI and access to the people creating the tests so they had months to prepare to beat them. Saying they all were cheating is like going to a car race and seeing a bunch of people in Hondas try and race against an f1 car and call that fair.
Bullshit. The tests show what is real and what is not. Miguel Induráin had fantastic stats as a child and still does. About 15 percent down on his prime. In other words better than many present riders. Never linked to anybody crooked. Bio passports could make it all real. I had a tremendous pulse range and very strong for my weight. National standard athlete. Beat me up a hill and you were either a national class bike rider or doing something.
@@peterh1353 The question is how that's relevant to the issue. Some cyclists are naturally closer to the max legal blood cell limit you can reach on EPO and still qualify to race. But to what degree is being born with a natural advantage "fair"? Do we want to equalize for natural advantages, instead measuring dedication and effort? Because if so, there's an argument we should simply let people get to that 49.5% by any means necessary to level the playing field.
Not entirely true. Remember what Mark McGwire said, "I am not here to talk about the past?" Mark refused to throw anybody else under the bus for what he did. Lance threw countless people under the bus and tried to ruin their lives for telling the truth. Emma O'Reilly and Betsy Andreu are the first two that come to my mind. Lance's crimes are not juicing or cheating at cycling. Lance's crimes are being a World Class douche bag and trying to ruin the lives of people who tried to tell the truth, even when telling the truth was not the most popular thing to say. You should be ashamed for even trying to brush Lance's behavior under the rug as if he was just like every other cheater.
Drugs are especially helpful for endurance sports. One day races are far less susceptible to juicing. Safe drugs don't make you stronger, they allow you to be normally strong longer.
chris1275cc no... he’s really not. It doesn’t matter what the UCI and McQuaid did or didn’t want to do, He was an antagonist, but he wasn’t the giant killer this movie and Walsh’s book makes him out to be.
What brought LA down was his comeback when he turned his back on Floyd Landis. Then Landis spilled the beans as to what was going on, which encouraged more of Armstrong’s ex teammates to come forward, and from there it was all downhill.
Revising history is wrong ... once a winner is confirmed .. it's too late to go back years later and change the winner. All those top cyclists were doing drugs. ... it's the racing organizations fault for not policing and controlling drug use .. they are the ones who should be shamed and scholded for allowing and maintaining a dangerous competitive environment.
Lance is the champion doper. Not a champion cyclist. Not everyone responds the same to dope. The best example is Miguel Indurain. He had really large lungs. He was also a really big guy. He was NEVER going to win a grand Tour clean...even if everyone else was clean. But because of his crazy huge lungs, he responded to EPO way more than anyone else, to the point that he could climb at top speed...despite being 30# heavier than any other fast climber. He was not the best cyclist. He was not the best climber. He was the best RESPONDER to dope! EPO gave him way more of an advantage than anyone else. So when you allow drugs, your winners are no longer the best athletes...they are the ones who respond to dope the best. Not the same thing at all. This is why everything should be done to stamp it out.
Indurain was an extremely good calculator of any major tour he rode in. He didnt go out there and win all the mountain finishes. He would suffer enormously to keep in contact. Enough to make up time lost in the time trials. He never bounced off up the mountains like Armstrong and drop all the climbers and win mountain stages. He suffered.
From what I can see today, this man accomplished nothing. Targeting one person and letting everyone else get away(then hoping they'll be cautious in the time to come) wasn't very smart move. Now there's even a mechanical doping issue. Isn't it time to look at why they cheat in the first place, you know the motive? Idea that catching a cheater would make other cyclists afraid to commit obviously not working. It's like a idea that death penalty would eliminate the future crime. It didn't work in the past. it's not today and it will not in the future.
TheLyingTruthTeller says: "Somewhere in the distance the world's smallest violin is playing." == I haveno idea whta you are trying to say. Can you tell me what's the motivation of the man, David Walsh? Was it eliminating the doing form the sports? If so, what else he's done or who else he tried to take down? For him, it was all about Lance Armstrong, it still is today.
Much of what this man is saying is misleading, or totally wrong. We never saw any rider train by riding the full course all around France, before, as Lance did. We never saw such advanced bike tech, as his team had. No one ever used such a scientific training program before as him and his coaches worked out. Few if any had done training at high altitude, which we all know (esp. those who like me have lived in Boulder Colorado) builds up a person's blood to higher levels than any other way of training. He trained harder and smarter, he had better funded bike development, he was a bigger and stronger rider than ever seen, just from physical measurements, wattage output, and stats really; and yes he did a small amount of blood booster in the off season, far less than many others did.
Swell. Just tell your story so you can justify whatever kind of scam you're doing. Cheating is cheating. NO -he did'nt do a "small amount of blood boosting" . He and his crew took a regular and sustained level of EPO throughout the entire racing season. Go sell bullshit somewhere else.
@@wvu05 You claimed Lemond was clean. I'm just asking for proof. If you don't have any, just say so. Much easier than trying to change the subject to Armstrong.
@@neonnaughtsie4726 No, the burden is on the person making the accusation. Asteriskstrong tried to do so to deflect and he failed. You clearly don't have the evidence, either.
Armstrong was the Jimmy Savile of cycle racing. He lived a long term lie, in full view of everyone, using his glib talk and his charity work to shield himself from exposure. It's a pity there wasn't a David Walsh around when the REAL Savile was active. "Savile is clearly groping..."
Ben Foster is the most underrated actor in the world 🌎
He is GREAT. Check out Hell or High Water...
I agree, reminds me a young Willem Dafoe
3:10 to yuma, alpha dog =wow
I have been saying the same thing
I worked with him once on a film. Super cool dude away from the camera as well.
I loved this "documentary". Whether it was accurate or not, it did depict that life is not black and white. Many of the people we admire have their dark sides just like any other ordinary person.
The last great TDF rider to win clean in the 1990s was Greg Lemond. Even at his best his average power output was 410. In comparison, Froome was 414. All the other winners in the 1990s up to 2006 were tainted with power output as high as Riis 479 and Indurain 450 who were regarded as mutants. Post EPO Armstrong 438, Contador 435, maybe not mutants but still ridiculously high.
@Charles Gosnell Lance Asteriskstrong tested positive twice (cortisone in 1999, EPO in 2001), and when USADA applied his old samples to new tests, over 80% were positive. Lemond also had a VO2 max of 93. The 78 of Asteriskstrong barely got him through a three hour marathon when someone with his accomplishments, if he was clean, could have easily gone under 2:20. Going after Lemond is typical whataboutism.
Kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkrkkrkrkkrkrkkrkrkrkkr
Lemond clean 🤣 it seems you have no clue of doping culture in cycling
I feel Cadel Evans was a legitimate winner. He spoke about doping and how frustrated he was with it thoroughly laced into the sport. He had to wait for Armstrong to get out and finally won in 2011. Good for him.
Everyone blames Lance, when in reality many people in the tour de france organization knew something was going on, but they only cared about penetrating the north american market.
Well said.......well said. How DARE an American win..........no no no. Time to take him down and erase.
@@billbobaggins801 Whenever/wherever Americans throw their tail in, it goes to crap. Is that what you want to say ?
@billbobaggins801 bullshit .. no one cared about nationality .. they cared about lying cheating and arrogance. Lance used the "they don't want an America to win" mantra and idiots like you fell for it. I guess Americans really are that guilable ...
These 8 minutes 48 seconds are the best case I have seen for clean sport - not just cycling but athletics, football, etc., etc.......
Never going to happen ever. Ever.
A fraud is a fraud. Respect to David Walsh.
WOW Ben Foster has Lance's mannerisms DOWN. Not surprising as Ben Foster is clearly one of the most talented actors alive, but WOW. Spot on. I've never even heard of this film as I've not followed cycling closely for years now, just getting back into it (yay) - I will definitely watch it as soon as I can!
Apparently Foster also went on the same drug program as Armstrong. Just to see what it was like. Now that's really submerging yourself into character
@@jackmiller-johnston8689 wow. its trippy because i could tell his face looked ohysically different as well, not just skinnier - but different. very fascinating
lol can't believe people still go on and defend Lance. "Oh, but they were all doping anyway so..." So fucking what? It's still cheating, regardless of how many others were simultaneously cheating alongside him. He was number one in his sport because of drugs, period. All these "professional athletes" are a bunch of roid heads and I'm not just talking about cycling. Professional sports are riddled with performance-enhancing drugs, it's just some are better at covering their tracks than others. It's sad, kids all over the world look up to and aspire to be just like these frauds.
THIS.
Allllll of this. ☝🏼😕💯
The EPO receptor is on a lot of cells not just RBC precursors. EPO is a effective.
I thought it was good. Althought I think it was a little bias in trying to depict lance as a bad person, it did have some very powerful scenes about cancer and the difficultys of bike racing and high pressure lose/lose situations.
He was a bad racer, he was a cheat and virtually brought a sport to it's knees. You can't let yourself be the face of a sport and be a cheat. It doesn't make sense.
Ask all the dozens of people who he bullied and intimidated into silence or because of their refusal to remain silent if he is a good person.
IN my humble opinion, Walsh is the most important sports journalist of the modern era of sports.I really appreciate his willingness to stand strong and take the hits and keep pursuing the truth.
In my opinion he is a douche, but not as big a douche as Lance.
Walsh is a turd. Pro cycling is still full of dopers today, but for some mysteriou$ reason Walsh doesn't have the interest to go after them with the same energy that he went after Lance.
@@neonnaughtsie4726 uhmm....because Lance won 7 tours and collected hundreds of millions....dude. A journalist has to take a triage approach to the limited number of stories one can write and get published in a professional career - its a no-brainer. You are confusing Journalism with doping control entities.
@@johngoodell2775 What do you mean, "limited number of stories one can write"? Who exactly is limiting journalists like Walsh from doing the investigative journalism they are so supposed to be doing? You mean to tell me cycling is all of a sudden clean? Of course it isn't. So why do we not see Walsh digging up dirty on today's top riders like he did yesterday's riders? What changed, hmmm?
@@neonnaughtsie4726obviously you are not a cycling fan or know anything about this issue. Walsh has written about many other riders , and about doping generally, but his focus on Lance was for patently obvious reasons.... Lance being the top rider in the peleton, one of the most sophisticated dopers, using the most famous doping doctor, wielding the most sponsorship influence, and being the most aggressive and combative conspirator in the doping machine. All of these things are facts.
Walsh should also have put his aggressive attitude towards other dopers too, why just get the fixation on Lance and ignore the others?
because you can spread yourself too thin
Because Lance was the biggest and was winning the race that got the most publicity. Makes sense.
He’s American
@@johnbarrick4836 Walsh hasn't impressed me as anti-American. Just anti-Lance.
jabba0975 jj maybe maybe not but why wouldn’t he go after everyone that doped and are still doping?
This was good journalism. I liked it when he said "This one thing we now have to hold onto is our skepticism." When you see someone who was performing a certain way in his field and then later on speeds up to the top of that field and stays consistently there, you first give some congrats and support at that first and second achievement. But when the pattern starts to show a consistency where a consistency really shouldn't be found, then hang on to your skepticism. Barry Bonds and Mark McGwire come to mind. Lance Armstrong is a narcissist and they'll do whatever it takes to be successful and not to ever be proven wrong. Success draws attention and scrutinization and rightfully so. Skepticism is good until the facts prove otherwise or gives us the true narrative of the event. Good journalism. Thanks for this post.
What really bothered me: this is how far people went to win bicycle races. How far would they go to win elections and wars?
Maybe I'm just simple, but either compete with honour or do not compete
Walsh speaks very well a good in sight, best get it watched.
??
David Walsh is very easy to listen to. He tells the story so well
Reizermo Too bad David Walsh isn't a doctor. He'd be even more believable. At least his nose is correctly on the scent of cheaters, coming from four decades of covering cycling. He knows this sport better than anyone and has more credibility than any of the wimpy, crappy, weak doping riders of today.
Christy Dolan true... brailsford is worse...
Christy Dolan Last time I checked Froome hasnt been found guilty of anything....apart from public execution by the anti-froome fraternity........
He isnt guilty because whole sport would collapse... People,multiply 2+2...........LA7
They could have found an actor that at least halfway resembled the real David Walsh!
They asked Greg Lemond
What he thought about Lances first win.
He said “lance couldn’t even finish his first three Tours.” He was right.
Him Bike , I did not know this. Wow!
Chad Tellevik greg Lemond first Tour
3rd place. Lance first tour didn’t finish.
Lemond 2nd Tour. 2nd place. Lance 2nd Tour. Didn’t finish. Lemond 3rd Tour. First place. Lance 3rd Tour. Didn’t finish. Pretty obvious what’s going on.
Him Bike Thanks for the information. Funny, I ride a Lemond. I should know this.
Him Bike LA did finish his 3rd in 1995
Pierre Verweij still very poor or average at best.
Where was David Walsh to uncover all the doping happening in cycling. Do you really think that all the past tour the France winner didn’t dope? Miguel Indurain was a Big Dipper. I have a friend that ride with ONCE in the mid eighties and everyone was dopped.
Hell, one can go all the way back to the early 1900's when Tour De France cyclists would medicate themselves during breaks with a mug of beer or liquor. This a clearly a grueling sport and maybe some light-weight sport supplement should be allowed to help cyclist to recover safely.
Yes,but now with walsh,hamilton,landis,andreu is different,the cleaned the cycling 😂
@@jamespatterson6972 Performance enhancing beer. 😂😂😂
Seems the folks were more to bring down Lance, than to purge cycling of all enhancers.
The movie was OK....that's all. It could have been so much better, since the acting was superb. However, and this is my biggest knock on it, is that the entire time you felt as if ANY ATHLETE that went through the charades of doping would have accomplished what Lance accomplished. We all know this is not the case. Lance was an incredibly gifted athlete to begin with. No way would you ever get that idea from this movie. The drama was also missing. Just an OK film IMO.
Just fyi...in Armstrong’s first four appearances at the Tour, three times he ‘did not finish’ and the other he finished 36th.
@@HkFinn83 And I can say the same thing about 5 time Tour winner Miguel Indurain. Indurain's first two appearances he DNF and in his third appearance he finished 97th place lol.
yet.....it's dirtier than ever. As the science is light years ahead of the testing due to the sheer money involved in winning.!! Those that doubt this are either extremely naive or truly have no clue how top notch sports work whatsoever.
This guy wouldn't have had the journalism career he did without lance's doping scheme. He should be grateful
Just read his book. l would highly recomend it.
Which book? What do u like about it so much?
Seven deadly sins
So when are they going to bring down Chris Froome?
It wouldn't surprise me if someone did. I've never believed that guy is clean, but for now I'll just have to wait and see.
They should just let the fellas do what they want to do... have a clean race and a dope race... i’d watch both
@@zerg9523 Even if you had a "doper race" and a "clean race", it would only be a matter of time before the dopers started infiltrating and winning the clean races. As long as there is a prize to win, there will cheaters. That is why they should just embrace doping. Let it be a free-for-all just like it was in the old days. Cycling was far more interesting and dramatic when they didn't spend all this time and energy worrying about who is and who isn't doping.
Lance has been the scapegoat for the backlash against doping. The fact is that 99% of the men on the podium with him during his most successful years were cheating too. Lance just happened to be the best at it. During those years the cyclists really had no choice. Blame the corrupt and greedy UCI, who cared more about making money than protecting the health of the cyclists and the legacy of the sport.
What about sky
If everyone else is doing it and it’s the only way to win then what’s the point of getting last with no spotlight and a clean conscience
Any of Team SKY'S wins are just as fraudulent.
EVERYBODY, EVERYWHERE= EVERYTHING
What a story though! Fascinating
When is he going to start working on Team Sky?
Yeah..Put your hands by your side...Hypocrite
This Walsh guy sure puts a lot of effort towards being dramatic. Why isn't he including Uhlrich and Basso and on and on and on...
Gebby Have you even listen to all the facts about the magnitude off his dope and the organisation around him? It was immense and horrifying. He doped on another level and got finally what he deserved.
Johan De Boer I know all the facts you know and it was over a decade ago. I moved on.
Gebby Case closed
And the French darling, Richard Virenque, who got his entire Festina team thrown out of the TdF in the middle of the race. Festina was a doping machine. Let’s not forget Merckx and many many others who also were caught doping and banned substances. They’ve always looked for an edge in cycling...guys used cocaine and methamphetamines.
and all the others too.
Doping cycling was so much better! Miss the good ol days.
Joe Maslov agreed.
I stopped watching cycling after Lance......The Tour SUCKS........Long Live the KING!! 7 - F..cking times bitches.......
Lance Armstrong doped, but his comeback from cancer and his wins were not due solely to EPO. There were so many factors that Postal did right, including having a man like Lance who was a fierce competitor.
jason schifo
Please read Tyler Hamilton’s book and then get back to me. If the whole peloton was clean Lance would have a chance of winning. The peloton has never been clean and never will but systematic blood doping by a whole cycling team is wrong. They done nothing good for cycling.
The only honest answer to this is. . . we will never know.
So what Armstrong didn’t do is take the drug from his first game
Eddie Merckx was Busted twice for dope. Out of the 7 TDF wins by LA, 19 of the 21 podiums were busted for dope. I used to buy my cycling gear from an ex-tour pro he told me in his days as a pro they didn't check. I asked what his HTC was ...57 was his answer. That was when several Dutch riders died of heart attack from too thick blood, if you became dehydrated with that high of HTC you were in big trouble.
What drives me crazy is the other sports, MLB, NFL, College, and even HS sports are given a pass. I'd guess 2/3 of the league(s) would be gone if they checked everyone. Lastly, there are a lot of people that have gained notoriety from bringing down Lance Armstrong under the guise of "for the good of the sport" yeah, right.
Merckx was actually done four times in races IIRC, Fleche wallone, TDF, I think the Giro and Lombardia, that in an era of hardly any testing. He also introduced Armstrong to Ferrari ... yet no-one says a thing as to how much of a perennial dope cheat Merckx was. I've said elsewhere but Moser had to admit doping before he was exposed and still didn't get punished, Hinault well, a piss take as he refused to test, Indurain could beat the little coulmbians up the mountains but blast evryone on the ITTs. The US cycling team blood doped, all of them, in the '84 Olympics.
@@tonyfranklin8306 Because 70s amphetamins were not the same cattle of fish as epo. Merckx would've been a great champion without doping, Armstrong would've maybe been a stagehunter and winner of one day races, but never the record winner of the TdF. Epo just made him a monster and completely different athlete.
The tour was a lot more fun to watch when Lance was in it.
What ??
Only because everyone knew he was cheating and people wanted to see what ridiculous height he was going to reach and what lies he was gonna spout .... as a cheat ...
Yeah. Drugs can be fun.
Champion. Hero. Legend. Period. "Cheating" is gaining an unfair advantage over the competition by doing something most are not. Leveling the field by taking the same stuff everyone is taking is not "cheating".
It wasn’t that he cheated it was that he attacked anyone who questioned him and used cancer to hide the truth. “ I nearly died I de never take anything illegal” etc. There’s the issue. I do agree he’s been given worse press than is the truth. Everyone almost to a man was cheating and you either accepted being a no one or you joined in. It must be frustrating knowing people you could easily beat could now beat you etc. Losing his tour titles and millions of dollars is enough it’s time to forgive and move on
How about bribing the UCI to sweep your failed tests under the rug and target your rivals?
If all the pro cyclists are doping at the tour, why is it such a tragedy that one of them wins? Its called competition and each one are doing what it took to compete. No surprise there. Also everyone reacts differently to doping, some it helps and others not much at all. If the testing body could not detect it, then Lance won fair and square against the other dopers. If you cant make the sport clean, you cant complain after the fact. The Olympics where Soviet Union and other countries were wide spread doping and winning. Bodybuilding, boxing, etc... get real. And we single out cycling? What a unfair and farce attitude against cycling.
Shouldn't have had his titles striped, but then cheats need to be punished somehow to discourage it to others.
The fastest guy on EPO is not the same as the fastest guy clean. It is NOT TRUE that if everyone dopes, and no one dopes...the same guy will win. For example. Miguel Indurain. Here are is Tour Results. Pre EPO DNF DNF 96th 74th 17th 10th After EPO 1st 1st 1st 1st 1st 11th Indurain had really large lungs...but his natural physiology could not take advantage of them. If everyone is clean..he never EVER wins a TOUR. With EPO...he wins 5...even though everyone else was also on EPO. It warps the results in an un-natural way Every tour prior to EPO Indurain got dropped by 10-20 minutes (!!) on the Ale D'Huez stage! 10-20 minutes. Every single time from 1985-1990. In the first Tour d'EPO (1991). He finished 1 SECOND behind the winner! He was not the only one doping. All the fast guys were. But the dope helped him WAY MORE. So it is all fake BS.
You're making the mistake of believing that drugs have the same effect on each person's body as well as the mistake of believing that each team was equally skilled in using drugs.
To paraphrase Tim Moore in his book 'Gironimo'- I don't hate Lance Armstrong because he won 7 Tour de Frances', I hate him because he was such an ugly personality
Walsh went after Armstrong, fine. But then Walsh believes in Froome. Yeah what a tool.
Kalashnikov Cortez Walsh publicly stated he believes Froome is a doper
Glad to hear that.
3:36 so there arent any test invented for testing EPO in the past ?
During the nineties and early 2000s no, there wasn't a test for EPO. As soon as there was a test for EPO, Lance Armstrong's historic blood samples were tested and low and behold.. he tested positive
Let's see DW take Sky down next!
For what? All you have to do is study how they achieve their wins and it is pretty obvious that they are clean. I predict the Tour average speed will be slower this year since the increases have been from shortening the distances. But the climbing stages have been slower. What you can also see is that the teams have all converted to close teamwork with heavy support of the team leader. This makes a far more supporting team for the leader. Lemons had one man supporting him in his first win. This close support idea came from Lance.
Also from advances in technology.
How did Lance know they couldn't have made it without drugs? ... He was on lighter drugs.. :DDD
The original point of testing athletes was i thought for safety, because we didnt want to see football players hurting others, which in american football is a legit concern, but riding a bike? Come on who is getting hurt?
There was an spike in heart attacks among the pro riders during the EPO era. It's not an innocuous substance just like any drug.
OK, but why so fixated on one guy, Lance. Even in this little clip he narrated that Lance followed those before him. Was Lance worse than others? I don't know, maybe. But how is everyone else OK? It's clearly between understood and known that other TDF winners were doping. It's quite clear that the UCI at least turned a blind eye and more probable clearly knew. I don't think that Lance should be the number one fall guy in this story that's much larger than Lance. Walsh comes across well, but again he was fixated on one guy (because Lance took a cheap shot in foosball? Who knows why, but he seemed to make it personal. ) and all but missed the larger story. I think we are not even close to any reasonable equilibrium in this whole case.
others didnt start a freakin charity and sued everyone?
Michael Buckley he won 7 Tour de France which has never been done by a person who went from having cancer and coming in at 36 in the tour to 1st, 1st, 1st .......... and 4 more
Well he was the most visible.
But yeah it was basically the doping Olympics. Just wait for gene editing with Crispr.
@@Schnidler Is starting a charity to help others a bad thing?
Cycling is a dirty sport, it always has been and they used Lance as a cop out, it's way easier to shoulder the blame on Lance for being dirty, strip him of all his titles and act like all is well. If they stripped everyone who doped, 80% of the winners of the tour would be stripped and they wouldn't have any reputation as a sport.
William Ross more like 99,9% winners. I hate this hypocrisy - all sports should be allowed to use whatever doping there is, just with one rule - do it openly and tell the world what and how much you are taking. Professional sport is long time no more a clean game. But by allowing any doping it can be clean and fair again.
This “everyone is doing it” excuse for LA is crap. The dozens of riders in Tours are not all using PEDS to the same extent. Look at the disparities in pay between team leaders and domestiques. The differences in budgets. LA had resources unique to his status, that were not enjoyed by everybody. In Mercx day it was caffeine and cognac. Everyone could afford it, a lot cheaper than Dr. Ferrari.
They were all on it not just Lance .
what's the name of the soundtrack song in the ending & throughout?
Was the blood doping to hide the EPO from testing?
it was to dilute the haematocrit count to less than 50%. at that time, there was no way to directly test for EPO, so the rules were that if your haematocrit was > 50%, you cannot race (for safety reasons - risks of clots, strokes). the authorities knew they were all on EPO but could never prove it.
hope that makes sense
Cycling has never been a clean sport. 2019 and still doping..
look at masters racers in the US (35 years and older) you know how easy it is for them to get the blue pill?
And you think other sports have not doped? Even the Greeks doped in the early Olympiads, track and field has not just been littered with doping but actually doping to an extent that women have physically changed into men (Eastern bloc field event athletes), doping was so horrendous in track and field that some of the records have been out of reach for decades. Nowadays soccer, tennis, golf get a massive pass because of the money involved. Cycling is the singularly most tested, by a very large margin!
@@ChiTownBrownie89 - Yup...half the Masters fields are old dudes who are not properly declaring their meds that they end up abusing, be it hormone therapy for testosterone, Viagra, or albuterol inhalers, and are not following proper USADA reporting procedure. There is a reason why random masters drug tests rarely happen, and why local race organizers shooaway drug testers for amateur racing. And when they do come, half the field doesn't race.
Dont watch it then
Do you have any concrete proof of that?
All cheaters, liars, and theifs, and it starts from the corporate level
No, it doesn't. It starts with the kid that steals a cookie. The person that flops on a high school soccer field for a penalty. The crib sheets during an exam you didn't study for. Wanting a chance at that man/woman you think is prettier than your current mate. None of that starts with anyone other than the individual.
@@PittsburghAfterDark If I could put a thousand "likes" after your statement, I would. RIGHT: It ALL starts with the individual. The End.
@@PittsburghAfterDark Actually, De Dub is correct. Cheating starts at the top and trickles down. The kid who steals a cookie does so because his parents either don't teach him right from wrong or aren't watching him as they should. When you apply this to cycling, it was the governing bodies of the sport, and all the corporate sponsors, who deliberately looked away while all the riders were doping because it was financially in their best interest to do so. As long as the money was rolling in they had no interest in doing anything to rock the boat. It was only when their hand was forced that they bothered to do their jobs. When you create a regulatory entity to regulate a given market or sport, and then make it a point to not actually regulate, you give a green light to bad actors that essentially encourages them to cheat.
David Walsh... Mr "Sky Racing is clean" rofl...
Sam Smith he's on the payroll
Yeah. He was cynical about Lance but not about Wiggins, Froome, Thomas or Team Sky.
What? He doesn’t believe they are clean at all, he said it on the morning show,
@@turkyish thanks for joining the party 4 years later! 🥳
they were all doping
I’ll say this, Lance Armstrong is one of the most impressive athletes in human history and he earned that by being a completely savage athlete in the saddle, even if us normal people used all the drugs and programs in the world he’d still beat 100% us. I’m not condoning doping but I am fearful that people think it’s like Super Serum they gave to captain America
But he was never successful. He won no race of importance. It's amazing what doping can do to an undistinguished cyclist.
Billy Boulton You're right. But he never won the tour.
Billy Boulton ned. Lance Armstrong has been stripped of his seven Tour de France titles. So he never won the tour.
I feel there is something very sinister about all this. It likely says more about the narcissistic jealousy of some who cannot bear to see others achieve what they never could themselves. In reality, he didn't care who was drugged up if they came second.
I adored Lance Armstrong....everyone doped then....This guy Walsh was truly after Lance. It is so sad what happened to Lance...I still respect his talent.
Lance treated people like shit. If you treat people like shit the way Lance did, yeah there's quite a big risk someone would want to hit you right back in the face. Vengeance is a hell of a drug.
@@okyouknowwhatever those few who came after Lance as hard as they did didn't interact with him at all, so i guess you mean his teammates who were also doping?? And yes, being a arrogant is part and parcel with the character needed to succeed at that level.
Druggie and cheater - a pure American.
Great film
I still believe lance Armstrong is the greatest cyclist of all time
He is and ALWAYS will be! People are also alive because of his cancer center.
1000% agree the GOAT 🐐
Hell.. the amatures are doping at some of our local races. Anything for first place medals so you can get specialized to sponsor you!
Not all about winning. Just to finished those grueling races in one piece was reason enough.
LA the poster boy.
Now that you spent all your time and energy taking down Lance Armstrong, who is your next target?
The worlds next biggest drug cheat. Whoever that may be.
N 05250 Very well said!
Hopefully more athletes ☝🏼😆🏈⚽️ LMAO
Seriously, cheaters have no business being the face of their sport! Period! WTF do you tell your OWN kids, if you're idolized assholes like Lance Armstrong?!
That as long as you don't get caught it's ok?! Or if you're still really, really good at the sport anyway, "it doesn't count"?! 🥴🤣 Jesus, do people even have morals anymore, or is it just "anything goes", as long as there's a sh*t-ton of money, fame or power as the reward?!
The dude's a dirt bag, and NOT just for the cheating, which honestly, could be easily forgiven. It's the fact that he ruined so many lives, trying to keep it all covered up, and behaved so jaw-droppingly despicable towards others, that now that the facts have come out....
It just looks weird even trying to defend it man. It honestly makes YOU lack integrity. Just sayin.
same joke with froome, contador, Nibali and all winner and top 20 riders.
Hands by my side. HAH!!!
Even if they are cheating (no evidence) they are not aggressive sociopaths who would fuck up other people's lives without remorse like Armstrong.
I'm no defender of LA BUT as Anquetil responded in the 60s: "It takes more than just bread an water to win TDF" [or smt like that]. To win TDF people have to realise that it takes more than than training and a normal diet - it has always, and it will always require that. The best rider on pane e acqua? [bread & water: meaning non-dopers] probably someone from pos. 30 and downwards. We'' never know. Is it sad, or should we rather acknowledge that between the best 10 riders one person is better: the winner !?
A decade of lying, cheating, and bullying...no honor there. A terrible human being...he ruined his life and others doing something as unimportant as riding a bicycle....
riding a bicycle is not unimportant to anyone who rides. it has saved us from obesity, cardiovascular disease, etc...
Ruined his life LOL. He's a multi millionaire that lives a life of luxury and privilege, Every cent of it is a direct result of illegal activity and fraud and yet he has never been to prison and likely never will, he still has legions of fans and supporters, still holds a celebrity status and what price has he had to pay? a load of people he doesn't give a fuck about hate him. If only I could ruin my life so badly.
@@chris1275cc And that's a very American way of thinking that we can see in some stories such as The Wolf of Wall Street. It's about capitalism in the end, eh? That's the moral of the story: cheat, lie, kill, intimidate, manipulate, put your health at risk or blackmail anyone in order to earn just a little bit more money.
Interesting premise, but every top cyclist was doping.. Riis, Pantani, Ulrich, Contador, Wiggins, Zulle. Only an idiot would believe that Miguel Indurain won Giro and Tour clean back to back.
Or Greg LeMond, that POS
I like how Walsh is all buddies with Brailsford and Team sky. What a joke.
He has questioned them in his articles in the past and criticised them. So I think your post is completely misplaced.
Not anymore he isn’t
The sport has changed from EPO doping to mechanical doping
Hope your sending Lance a piece of the action. Why the year before didn’t you hunt dopers? All the years before and he never tried to clean up cycling. Armstrong was his meal ticket and he milked it. They all doped yet Lance was his target.
Not a fan of Sir Profit
because lance was the worst of them all?
Your absolutely right. In 1999 Walsh had been reporting on Cycling for a while. He knew full well what the name of the game was. Cycling is no different that any major professional sport. Why go after Lance if he knew most, if not all the pro peloton was on a doping program. To make a name for himself and to make money of course. He is the one thats really damaged the sport of cycling. He threw the sport under the bus for fortune and fame. Make no mistake, longtime cycling fans know exactly what he did and will always consider him as a traitor Lance did what he had to do, all world tour teams had sophisticated doping programs. You take all the drugs away, guess who would still win
alphadog62 Nailed it!
Rich piana was my favorite fullnatty brah bodybuilder just hard work and dedication ... Come on its 2018 all the Big hitters are on drugs It is their job isnt It?
To quote Bill Burr: "So our roided up guy beat your roided up guy" - The whole sport is crooked with drug infused cyclists.
ty finally a person who sees it for what it is
NorwaySummer that’s a very juvenile way to look at it. Lance had the best access to drugs and had the highest quality possible. Not to mention he regularly used his brand to hold the UCI hostage and basically dared them to ruin their sport. He knew they needed him. He got guys kicked out of the sport and ruin people’s lives and families to protect himself. Lance even used to get the UCI to warn people to slow down and stop challenging him or the UCI would test them more until they got the failed test and could suspend the guy. Not to mention lance was given a “suspension” after his 7th title and that’s why he “retired” for a few years. Lance is the biggest cheat in sports history
@@hoecorn Greg Lemond sends his regards.
@@wvu05 What makes you so sure Lemond was clean? Surely you realize the entire peloton was doping during Lemond's winning years, right? Do you honestly think he was able to win three tours against a doped-out peloton while being squeaky clean himself, LOL? If so, I've got a nice bridge for sale.
@@neonnaughtsie4726 There are different levels of doping. EPO didn't become a thing until 1992, and that is when he could no longer keep up. And it has literally never been "everyone has doped." There have always been clean cyclists, even if it was the minority. And saying "He won, therefore he cheated" is just as naive as saying that everyone was clean.
Yes, but the problem is, why going after Amstrong and not the others that actually dope as hell as well? None of the top 20 cyclists don't dope. There is some kind of hypocrisy there. Why taking down Amstrong and not the others? Why Virenque doesn't have his successes canceled during the times he acknowledged having taken drugs. Taking down Amstrong and making him a scapegoat, is the best way for the others to carry one doping.
The problem with this journalist is that he wants to take down Amstrong because he was immensely successful, but he doesn't want to end the doping system that is institutionalized. This journalist is not against doping, he is against success. That is a total hypocrite.
The reason why Armstrong was successful wasn't only doping. He had incredible capacities (organization, focus, physical abilities, the skills to gather the best ones around him, etc.), which other cyclists completely miss. Doping is just a part of his success not all. Many good cyclists in the peloton would not even have the capability to compete on the tour de France without doping.
This journalist is bitter and driven by jealousy and envy. And he hides behind his virtue signaling narrative.
This has been answered many times. Do some research.
Back in 1990 everyone who was a serious bicycle racer knew about EPO. You really think Big Mig did it all on his own?
Indurain, the first EPO champion, never sanctioned.....absolute disgrace.
The difference is that Indurain was and is a humble, tactful and generous man. He never pissed anybody off in the peloton. Had Lance had the same approach, he would have kept his 7 TDF wins.
@@polycrase omg! If you knew him you wouldn't say that. He's been that way his entire life. Its his job, and he doesn't care to be your friend or pat you on the back.
You get on and shut your mouth and pedal. Thats it,,,,just do your job........
@@billbobaggins801 Armstrong literally bullied clean cyclists out of the peleton.
I want to know what’s been done to stop doping in 2018? Does anybody know?
You haven't gotten an answer yet.
Casualguy 939 yes I think the answer is fuck all 🤣
Look up for «biological passport»
I dont think they are clean these days, but at least cycling is the cleanest sport throug the best doping Control system.
@7.00 betsy formidable... great line.
Lance is and will remain unsurpassed in cycling, and that is a fact. We all love him.
Err no "we" don't and he was surpassed by everyone who raced clean.
@@chris1275cc Who are the ones who raced clean against Lance? It is your argument, so who?
Can anyone tell me why Team Sky had a bus where at the press if a button the glass fogged up? Just asking.
The glass is tinted on the outside of the bus you can see through any team bus windows
@@crazie429 Sir you did not see the GCN video where the glass door to an internal meeting room could be made opaque on denand Google it. If you can't find the video ... removed??? No. See GCN youtube video Inside the team Sky Bus. OB1 KA no B. That one.
@@anthonythorne8963 LOL why do you think that is significant? If it was just a normal door that is permanently frosted or just made of solid wood it would serve the same purpose BUT would you still be asking this question? The reason is it is not a good idea to let everyone on the staff know team tactics, (which to be fair could include doping) as the staff member could give or even just let slip that information to a rival team.
Bloke from neighbours an extra 🤣
Lance was the BEST TDF rider in history, EVER, bar none. His arrogance and inability to tell the truth was his downfall. The cycling world needed someone (An arrogant American) to have as a scapegoat. Every single motherfucker racing in that sport was on EPO, low dose roids for faster injury healing, blood doping and that's the fat stinking truth. Lance will forever be remembered as a cheater but in reality everyone else at his level was doing basically the same thing. Lance really was just that good. One of the best, if not the best TDF cyclist ever.
Ted Davis // Lemond, another arrogant American, also a great rider, but also human made Greg Lemond a better TDF rider.
Usa took him down not cycling world.
The spot is dirty.... Lance was leveling out the playing field .. he won fair & Square! More & More people are coming to see this now!
2:00 Ferrari was right
Was Lance wrong yep he was, but no one did any thing until an American started winning to many tour the france’s. I mean you want the truth right, well let’s not pretend this was all about integrity and doing the right thing for the sake of sport and mankind. They knew those other European riders were doping but they did nothing for years! If you want to be truly open and honest don’t just stop with Lance right. Lol
Cheating is cheating. Lance's problem is that he was cast as a hero . BUT -a hero can't cheat like the other mere mortals. Then -he is NOT a hero. That's why he was taken down so aggressively. If he was just another pro racer that no one was familiar with without the whole cancer comeback narrative he probably would have been left alone . THAT -combined with the fact that his REAL problem was that he was greedy . If he had left the sport with a record breaking 6 wins his EPO story would never have seen he light of day. But NO . He had to have 7 wins and then even that was'nt enough. 'Like the OLD saying goes -"Quit while you're ahead" -otherwise things start to stink.
@@sonsoftheedelweiss72 I get your point. But -as I said - if he had been content with his record breaking 6 TDF wins and then exited the scene with all his millions and glory he would never have been investigated because Floyd Landis would'nt have entered the picture. Lance was hooked on the whole scene . The hero worship, the celebrity involvement , the talk shows. The "hypocrites" probably suspected Lance of doping -BUT- and this is a BIG but -Lance was being very good for the sport of professional cycling. They were all lining their pockets because of Lance's fame.
I agree.
@@sonsoftheedelweiss72 I often ask myself how I would react if I met LA in person. I would try to understand but also try to get the point across that cheating to succeed is wrong -even if alot of others are doing it.
John I think he is human and made a mistake in poor judgement , but at the end of the day as much as I love sports, it’s just a sport, and people need to understand that and not hate him forever for it. I am not perfect and have made a lot of mistakes in my life. He already suffered major consequences for his actions.
Where's the scepticism with Froome and Thomas and so many of the riders nowadays?
There has been scepticism with Froome, thats why he released his race data. Its a lot more difficult now to get away with taking drugs in sport. You see big profile cases like Sharapova and currently with the Russian athletes. Anyone who're taking performance enhancing drugs will be caught now. If they haven't yet, they definitely will be
+T Bookah
You really think that Froome can be faster than Armstrong in his juiced prime and be clean ? Just asking...
Cycling's creditably has been permanently damaged, nobody believes anyone is clean these days, I think its only a matter of time before another shit storm comes out.
ephabouyed hail Sir Bradley Wiggins !!!!!
George Hobhouse on lemond
Lance likes to say "it was a bad time" as an excuse for his horrendous behavior. Let me detail just how Lance was so much worse than anyone he raced against. First and foremost, Lance Armstrong is a CRIMINAL, you can watch him commit perjury on UA-cam... he abused the legal systems of several countries... failed false claims of slander and libel... and infringement on the civil rights of Americans. Not to mention the fact that the UCI gave him special treatment. Lance Armstrong is the very definition of evil.
Is the name of movie “the program”….?
Yes.
To me it wasn't the fact that Lance cheated because almost all did , he did what he had to do , it was the brutal lying against the innocent .
@@robinmcewen3286 Yes . I was a big fan of L.A. and for a blink in time he made cycling , especially in America, stupendously exciting while behind the scenes, unbeknownst to many, all was askew. Cycling has not been the same for me , Lance committed unforgivable sins with his destruction of lives .
They were ALL using it. Just like baseball - put an asterisk on it and move on.
senorboardhead they weren’t all using the same way though. Lance had access to every drug, access to the UCI and access to the people creating the tests so they had months to prepare to beat them. Saying they all were cheating is like going to a car race and seeing a bunch of people in Hondas try and race against an f1 car and call that fair.
Riders like Charly Mottet, Gilles Delion, Christophe Bassons etc. would disagree...
Bullshit. The tests show what is real and what is not. Miguel Induráin had fantastic stats as a child and still does. About 15 percent down on his prime. In other words better than many present riders. Never linked to anybody crooked. Bio passports could make it all real. I had a tremendous pulse range and very strong for my weight. National standard athlete. Beat me up a hill and you were either a national class bike rider or doing something.
@@peterh1353 The question is how that's relevant to the issue. Some cyclists are naturally closer to the max legal blood cell limit you can reach on EPO and still qualify to race. But to what degree is being born with a natural advantage "fair"? Do we want to equalize for natural advantages, instead measuring dedication and effort? Because if so, there's an argument we should simply let people get to that 49.5% by any means necessary to level the playing field.
Not entirely true. Remember what Mark McGwire said, "I am not here to talk about the past?" Mark refused to throw anybody else under the bus for what he did. Lance threw countless people under the bus and tried to ruin their lives for telling the truth. Emma O'Reilly and Betsy Andreu are the first two that come to my mind.
Lance's crimes are not juicing or cheating at cycling. Lance's crimes are being a World Class douche bag and trying to ruin the lives of people who tried to tell the truth, even when telling the truth was not the most popular thing to say. You should be ashamed for even trying to brush Lance's behavior under the rug as if he was just like every other cheater.
HEY WALSH MR LIME YOU MIGHT AS WELL BRING DOWN ALL THE RIDERS CAUSE THERE ALL ON THE BOTTLE !!!!!!!!
Drugs are especially helpful for endurance sports. One day races are far less susceptible to juicing. Safe drugs don't make you stronger, they allow you to be normally strong longer.
This is a little comical, as I don't believe that Walsh is credited with "taking down" Armstrong at all.
Yes he is the UCI would have rather swept it under the carpet.
chris1275cc no... he’s really not. It doesn’t matter what the UCI and McQuaid did or didn’t want to do, He was an antagonist, but he wasn’t the giant killer this movie and Walsh’s book makes him out to be.
What brought LA down was his comeback when he turned his back on Floyd Landis. Then Landis spilled the beans as to what was going on, which encouraged more of Armstrong’s ex teammates to come forward, and from there it was all downhill.
Revising history is wrong ... once a winner is confirmed .. it's too late to go back years later and change the winner. All those top cyclists were doing drugs. ... it's the racing organizations fault for not policing and controlling drug use .. they are the ones who should be shamed and scholded for allowing and maintaining a dangerous competitive environment.
where do i find this movie? i want to watch it but i simply can't find where to rent it (or buy). thank you.
+Rodrigo Delgado Go to Netflix and watch the documentary called Stop At Nothing. Why watch a dramatic reenactment when you can watch the real thing?
It is now on Amazon Prime as well
The movie is "The program".
Walsh has/had an unhealthy obsession with Armstrong, and made a career out of him. Armstrong was a doper NOT a serial murderer!!
Lance is the champion doper. Not a champion cyclist. Not everyone responds the same to dope. The best example is Miguel Indurain. He had really large lungs. He was also a really big guy. He was NEVER going to win a grand Tour clean...even if everyone else was clean. But because of his crazy huge lungs, he responded to EPO way more than anyone else, to the point that he could climb at top speed...despite being 30# heavier than any other fast climber. He was not the best cyclist. He was not the best climber. He was the best RESPONDER to dope! EPO gave him way more of an advantage than anyone else. So when you allow drugs, your winners are no longer the best athletes...they are the ones who respond to dope the best. Not the same thing at all. This is why everything should be done to stamp it out.
Indurain was an extremely good calculator of any major tour he rode in. He didnt go out there and win all the mountain finishes. He would suffer enormously to keep in contact. Enough to make up time lost in the time trials. He never bounced off up the mountains like Armstrong and drop all the climbers and win mountain stages. He suffered.
From what I can see today, this man accomplished nothing.
Targeting one person and letting everyone else get away(then hoping they'll be cautious in the time to come) wasn't very smart move.
Now there's even a mechanical doping issue.
Isn't it time to look at why they cheat in the first place, you know the motive?
Idea that catching a cheater would make other cyclists afraid to commit obviously not working.
It's like a idea that death penalty would eliminate the future crime.
It didn't work in the past. it's not today and it will not in the future.
TheLyingTruthTeller says:
"Somewhere in the distance the world's smallest violin is playing."
== I haveno idea whta you are trying to say.
Can you tell me what's the motivation of the man, David Walsh?
Was it eliminating the doing form the sports?
If so, what else he's done or who else he tried to take down?
For him, it was all about Lance Armstrong, it still is today.
What he did was bring down the biggest cheat in cycling it is not his job to clean up the sport. that's the job of the UCI.
Walsh has/had an unhealthy obsession with Armstrong and made a career out of him!! Armstrong was a doper NOT a serial murderer!!
If you ain’t cheating you ain’t trying. Sports are businesses, and I’m cool with doing what needs to be done because that’s life as well
David Walsh is a Welp🤐Lance Will ALWAYS be the The GOAT!!💪
Much of what this man is saying is misleading, or totally wrong.
We never saw any rider train by riding the full course all around France, before, as Lance did.
We never saw such advanced bike tech, as his team had.
No one ever used such a scientific training program before as him and his coaches worked out.
Few if any had done training at high altitude, which we all know (esp. those who like me have lived in Boulder Colorado) builds up a person's blood to higher levels than any other way of training.
He trained harder and smarter, he had better funded bike development, he was a bigger and stronger rider than ever seen, just from physical measurements, wattage output, and stats really; and yes he did a small amount of blood booster in the off season,
far less than many others did.
Swell. Just tell your story so you can justify whatever kind of scam you're doing. Cheating is cheating. NO -he did'nt do a "small amount of blood boosting" . He and his crew took a regular and sustained level of EPO throughout the entire racing season. Go sell bullshit somewhere else.
Ain't nothing wrong with EPO let's get it!
Can you say that the Tour of France has ever been won by a clean rider. In my opinion no.
Greg Lemond
@@wvu05 Proof?
@@neonnaughtsie4726 What is your evidence that he cheated? The people who said it about Asteriskstrong had evidence.
@@wvu05 You claimed Lemond was clean. I'm just asking for proof. If you don't have any, just say so. Much easier than trying to change the subject to Armstrong.
@@neonnaughtsie4726 No, the burden is on the person making the accusation. Asteriskstrong tried to do so to deflect and he failed. You clearly don't have the evidence, either.
If all were doped, where was the problem with lance? The individuals dedicated themselves to bring him down were just sorry jealous fanatics, imho.
Armstrong attempted to ruin lives to keep his lie going.
Armstrong was the Jimmy Savile of cycle racing.
He lived a long term lie, in full view of everyone, using his glib talk and his charity work to shield himself from exposure. It's a pity there wasn't a David Walsh around when the REAL Savile was active.
"Savile is clearly groping..."