Thanks for watching, SoloFam! I hope you guys are as excited about going down the rabbit hole as I am! ~ CORRECTIONS ~ I said that Alice was sitting with her mother in the movie but it's actually her sister. Not a big deal, but a surprisingly large amount of you are fixating on correcting that mix-up so I figured I'd let all 200 of you know I've seen your comments ;)
Love your videos bro! Never miss a single one :) keep up the good work! Also just so you know, the woman reading to Alice is still supposed to be her sister not her mother :) Oh you caught that, sorry lol
Fran Martinez (This is my personal thoughts tho - you might be disagree with me but I really think it can be a productive debates) I think the role of the sister in 1951 Disney’s Classic doesn’t really affect Alice’s perspective as much as you might have been giving her the credits for, although in the book she might have been an impact on Alice’s and the readers’ perspective. Because the fact that is affecting Alice, is more evolving around how she think about the book and how she prefers the books to be. (I think this part goes for both the 1951 Disney’s Classic and the book) As Alice “peeped into the book her sister was reading, but it had no pictures or conversations in it, “and what is the use of a book,” thought Alice, “without pictures or conversations?” And you see... Alice books are based upon “pictures and conversations” and on that it doesn’t really affect if the character placed in the 1951 movie portrays by her sister or her mother... but Jon has corrected it already. Alice's sister is never named, only appears for a moment. While Alice is young enough to believe in her adventures, her sister is mature enough to know they are fantasy, but still childlike enough that she can appreciate them. For the book - this way, Alice's sister stands in for the reader, showing us how to appreciate the Alice books even after we're grown. The book also ends from the perspective of Alice's sister - the only moment at which the reader doesn't see things through Alice's eyes. By moving into the mind of the sister, Carroll allows the reader to think about how Alice's adventure might affect her over the long term, and to see how Wonderland was inspired by people and things from the real world. So as Jon is correct about the book and made little mistake on the movie part - you can find it in your heart that it is not that big of a deal, Fran. Peace out✌️ ☮️ ❤️ - Eva
Maria Karlsson Well, it’s definitely not in the book. Believe me, I would know. In fact, in the book, the cat is the only one in Wonderland to admit to being crazy. I quote, “We’re all mad here. I’m mad. You’re mad.”
"Have I gone crazy?" "I'm afraid you have. You're completely bonkers. But can I tell you a secret? All the best people are." ~Alice in Wonderland (2009)~
Bounty Hunter Kakuzu Right? Not that they’re ever boring, but they’re great to fall asleep to. A sort of messed-up - but still comforting - bedtime story.
when I first found your channel, I thought it was gonna be like the others who create super fake deep and gritty theories about children stories and spin fake facts to make it all more interesting without doing any actual research. Not only am I glad I was wrong, but I also stop everything when a new video comes out! Great work dude!
Fun Fact: Alice was drawn wearing a yellow dress in the original book because it was the color of insanity at the time. You can see Alice wearing yellow at 8:43, 10:21, 13:04, 13:53, and 14:41.
@@wingellhymer9139Disney film : "If I were looking for a white rabbit, I'd ask the Mad Hatter." Alice: The Mad Hatter? Oh, no no no... "Or, you could ask the March Hare, in that direction." Alice: Oh, thank you. I think I'll see him... "Of course, he's mad, too." Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people. "Oh, you can't help that. Most everyone's mad here." (Starts to disappear) "You may have noticed that I'm not all there myself." In the novel, it goes: "But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked. "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."
lol good one I forget which channel it is but they tell you about different codes at Disney world & land one of those codes being white lines when I hear that I thought they meant someone was doing drugs but it means someone spreading the ashes of a loved one on a ride
One needs to remember that he took nude photos of Alice's older sister even after she was too old to fall under the social norm, and that Alice's mother barred him from seeing any of the girls later on. Alice's family says that although the mother was never explicit with other family members regarding all the reasons, part was said to be the inappropriate photos and had found him trying to court the oldest sister in secret over the years, even before she was old enough to be considered an adult.
@Ivore Surkuri there's a documentary called "the secret world of lewis carrol" here on yt that elaborates on his questionable relationships with kids and that photo There are many things pointing at the possibility that he (at least in the case of the liddells) had inappropriate thoughts about kids: there was this sudden ban from socialising with the liddell kids by their mom, ripped out diary pages of the days their fall-out happened and a questionable naked photo (of the girl who is presumably Alice's older sister) whose edges were cut to erase the number and the signature of the maker of that photo These things appear not to be widely known(?) though since most of his autobiographers are always quick to defend him
I don't care if the pictures of the younger ones were socially acceptable or not, they were just as wrong and all these people defending it need to be shown how it feels to be an abused child
What likely caused the falling out was not him being skeevy with Alice or courting anyone "in secret" but more likely him actually expressing interest in marrying Ina (who would have been 13/14 at the time and ready for courtship) and her mother basically saying my daughter will not be marrying a lowly professor. Back then, marrying out of your class was more of a taboo then photographing young girls naked or hanging out with a 10 year old all day.
Eric Lord yes, I definitely believe this era is less weird. If you honestly believe that our era and the Victorian era are comparable or similar in any ways you’re a whole clown
@Lunarcats 2323 could the cartoon have made the older female character Alice's mother. I never saw the cartoon , but did read the book and in it Alice is with her sister.
I disagree. Many artists deliberately set out to make nonsense. Just as an appropriate example, the song "I Am the Walrus." Lennon was frustrated by everyone dissecting Beatles' song lyrics, so he set out to make something impossible to decipher. Reportedly saying upon completion, "let em sort this one out." 😄
Joel Bizzell wouldnt that Lennon song have come from his life experiences then? As you say, he created it as a direct response to his experiences with people over-analyzing his music.
Usually if they do make nonsense, it's either due to drugs, a mental breakdown, arrogance (thinking that people will still like your writing if you write whatever, whether or not it makes sense), as a prank, or out of desperation for new ideas.
Yeah , I know, right? The craziest amount of nonsensical stuff. I think I remember going over this novel in English Literature class in High School. I love Literary stuff . Being on the Lit Magazine staff was amazing.
Lmao I never thought it was as messed up as everyone thought. oH iTs AbOuT dRuGs!1!!1 um no sweaty it’s not. Literally about stuff that don’t make sense
It is her elder sister. There is nothing in the Disney movie saying it is the mother. The scene is very truthfull to the book in overall. However, they never adress their relation at all in the scene. So it opens up for missconceptions if you never red the book.
Yes , that’s right . I remember, because I remember when we were discussing the book in English class we also learned about the time period of the author. In this time of history it was still deemed inappropriate to call your mother by her name. It’s definitely her elder sister !! ( I remember a lot about the movie, she called her by “ name “ . Although for the life of me I couldn’t tell you what her sister’s name was ...!!! )
The older siblings probably recognized that the story version of Alice was more of a communal punching bag to the denizens of Wonderland than a protagonist, and didn't feel like they were missing out on much.
I can actually understand this point on the befriending children thing a lot. I’m friends with many school children since I work in a supermarket and often at the time when they finish school. I receive daily hugs, excited renditions of their days and ‘I love you!’ From other people’s children. Due to horrible people in the world I jump through hoops to make sure the parents are always present and aware every step of the way, but I can imagine when simpler times would have made the rest completely normal. Kids are adorable! And they’re view on the world is wonderful and kind of reminds me why life is precious.
I just watched a documentary on Lewis Carroll, and you show just as much, (if not more), research for this video. Looking forward to the next 3! Great job 👍🏻
the point is that it was a different time. We judge it harshly because that’s not how we live now but morality shifts as humans evolve and morality is subjective, not objective.
this whole thread made me uncomfortable. asserting an objective morality is something i still can't agree with, but i do still feel it's so far passed bad in the general sense of established societal morality that arguing for a superlative essence of morality has merit. i think there was a philosophy tube episode on this. in the context of left and right in the usa, there are differences in what they consider to be objective morality, like gay marriage or abortion. but this whole thread made me really uncomfortable. it should be obvious that hurting kids is wrong. idk i loved this book so much too and now i'm sad
The point is that it was not considered sexual, it wasn't a highly sexualized time where everything is looked at in salacious terms. Naked children were considered innocent and cherubic, not objects of sexual desire.
Jeff Oliver pedophilia was and is very common for Europeans. It dates back to the Greeks and Pederasty. We like to pretend now that these relationships were innocent, but adult child sexual relations were very common and just not spoken about. Just like incest in Europe. The lord of the manor was given the right of taken the virginity of everyone in his household to include his daughters. After coming in contact with people in places where these practices were taboo and seen as immoral, Europeans adapted.
Jeff Oliver It doesn’t matter what year it was. A grown man hanging with little girls taking naked pictures of them is a pedophile. It’s never been okay . The only people who thinks it is are pedophiles and their enablers.
They was having sex with children as young as ten or as soon as breast appeared. New Hampshire just changed/increased their legal age from 13! This Year! My grandmother was married at 12!
Living Woman Ministries no country accepts it! 🤦🏻♀️ Such ignorance! These are individuals, found the world over! Females as well as males. And many of these criminal acts take place within the family homes of the victims. And Africa, Switzerland, China....heck....every country on this planet has an issue with pedophiles! This not wanting to believe they are not accepted in your country but are elsewhere is somewhat naive. They travel to carry out their crimes, also. From every background, level of education, upbringing, career path, etc.
Marquis De Lafayette rubbish! Not every single person living in ‘A’ country is in acceptance of such a thing. That is gross ignorance to imply that of a peoples. There are pedos high up who hide it, and this is not unique to a country or four, this is worldwide. These sick individuals will prey on the poorest, the most vulnerable youngsters in society-even parents sell their kids to live with older people who then marry them, at times, and then rape them as children. These people are found in every part of society and like any other illegal behaviour, is shared among a type! Sick! They need children, have them or whoever can get access to them. With the less hassle the better. That’s on a grand scale a more international, level. Then you get those individuals who prey on young family members. It doesn’t matter on what level, the fact is children are being horribly, brutally abused and not EVERY country or those in it accept that! You need to read up more on the subject. It’s a massive worldwide issue because it’s present everywhere. There are forces who do bust these sex slave markets and it’s rife from poor way up to rich. The more you read the more you learn about this. Alas, I have worked with child sex abuse victims. I see the reality of it, and who is affected and hurt. And these have been young children up to young adults-18/19. All nationalities. Some have escaped from their home countries to live with family based on where they have relocated to.
Marquis De Lafayette it’s not collective. The only people who will accept it and allow it are the pedophiles themselves. Not entire nations. And the frightening thing is they go to any lengths to get what they want, they help each other get what they want. So a poor man will be friends with a rich man because they have that revolting connection. 🤢 It makes you go cold and your stomach goes into knots realising what goes on where.
Marquis De Lafayette but you are implying that some countries don’t accept it at all, so you are still suggesting that there are countries where it isn’t an issue, or that people from that country in particular allow it as in general. They are Everywhere and in Every country and there are people in every country from all across the board who don’t accept it and want them locked up. For life.
For those interested in an actual very similar movie version of the book, I STRONGLY recommend the 1999 version. This is overall pretty accurate to the book, has a lot of great quotes in it (both from and not from the book), and is filled with famous British actors (for example the guy who played Hagrid from Harry Potter plays one of the Tweedles) :)
Wait I think I watched that version. Gene Wilder was the Mock Turtle and Whoopi Goldberg was the Cheshire Cat. Edit: just checked it. I did watch that movie it also had Christopher Lloyd and Miranda Richardson as the White Knight and the Queen of Hearts respectfully.
@@Brianbeesandbikes no that's not even true. Victorians were so obsessed with sex they hid piano and table legs under skirts. Chaste kisses also weren't between adult men and female children on the mouth. You people have absolutely lost it.
@@christinash2235 wait but dont many adults and children share a quick kiss in todays society? I know plenty parents do it, and I assume it wouldnt be weird for close family friends to do so as well... Some places just dont find it sexual or romantic in any way.
When I was five, I remember hearing the story of Alice in Wonderland read on TV by a local kindergarten teacher. It was chapter by chapter. I didn't understand a lot of it. It was only some years later when I read the actual book(along with great footnotes)that I fully appreciated the stories and the author. When I was nine I saw the Disney movie...and thought it had left too much out. (That's Disney for ya!)
Last summer I read "Alice in Wonderland" and "Through the looking glass" they both made no sense! I had to reread "Through the Looking Glass" to try to make sense of it..... it still didn't even make sense XD
@@eleven-hopper different tastes for different people. Just because it's classic doesn't necessarily mean it's objectively good. Creative for sure, absolutely memorable, but tastes always vary
@@tuckinatorinator787 i know. I was just saying that even if you think it's garbage, you should respect it for the book it is and the people that like it
Lewis was a mathematician, when people break it down that way, it makes the most sense to me. There is a whole book about decoding the book lol. I love to hear takes on this movie and the book. It’s my favorite Disney movie/book that I still watch for comfort as an adult. My friend bought me an Alice in wonderland book from a thrift store only to discover it is worth several hundred dollars, I’ll never give it up!
Has anyone else noticed the similarities between Alice in wonderland and the matrix? It's almost like the matrix is a reverse version. Where neo begins in wonderland and leaves to the real world. Think about it. He follows a white rabbit (the tattoo) to the club. Where he meets trinity who in turn leads him to morpheus. Morpheus gives him the pill, he then has an awakening, falls down a long disposal tube (the rabbit hole) into a different world. Even the characters on the neberkaneza (maybe mispelt) resemble the characters in wonderland. mad hatter, white rabbit, tweedledumb, tweedledee, the mouse, March hare, caterpillar, the Cheshire cat. 8 characters that mentor Alice. Morpheus, trinity, tank, dozer, mouse, switch, apoc, cypher, switch 8 characters that mentor neo. Dozer and tank are twins like the twins in Alice. Mouse is...Mouse Morpheus could be the mad hatter, Switch the white rabbit, Trinity the hare (fast) Mouse....Mouse Cyper the Cheshire cat Apoc the caterpillar maybe.... Then they have the breakfast, throat scenes like the tea party. The whole thing of awakening at the end, neo dies then awakens after being cornered. Running from the agents at the end... The trial of Alice /interrogation of morpheus. I don't know its seems like there's alot of links between the two stories. Even morpheus talks about "you've been living in a dream world" etc
There is a channel on UA-cam called, "Children of Its Real Out Here," and he says all Hollywood movies are the same but we just don't realize it. Initially I didn't believe him. However, In his videos he does have the same breakdown of every movie he reviews.
@@malkay7927 sounds like justifying pedophelia... he took naked photos of children, went on dates with little girls, and was “in love” with little girls. You can blame it on the culture of the time, but that doesn’t make it ok. Just because something was commonly accepted at a certain time period, doesn’t make it ok. For example, slavery was never ok, no matter how many times it happened and continues to happen. Little girls shouldn’t marry old men. Children shouldn’t be an obsession of old men. Pedophelia is never ok. Stop justifying it. Accept that historically many people who did great things with their lives (became well known authors, politicians, artists, etc.) were also pedophiles. Then, decide to do better for the next generation of kids, and move on.
@@nancymariahp you misunderstood and yes I agree with everything being said. But what I was pointing out was that he would not have known it was wrong because it was the societal norm. Not that I think it was right. I also just took it down because I don't want an argument over something as dumb as adding information without saying whether I agreed or not and then being attacked. Back then they were raised a certain way and had to follow that or they would face consequences for being different. That's all I was saying.
Leave it to today’s people to try to cancel niggas from the 1800s. Just 200 years before that, people got married at 15 to people who were already adults. And 200 years before that, Kings and Queens (basically president and supreme leaders) would give their 13-16 year old to a prince or even a king to be married for a unity kingdoms.
Er, actually, the woman giving Alice her history lesson is her sister. The voice actor is titled as such in the credits. Alice doesn't land on her head in the movie, she lands upside-down with her feet hooked over a bar.
There is evidence to suggest Lewis Carroll's relationship with the children in Alice's family wasn't okay even within the perspective of the time. There's no absolute proof, but there's enough to raise doubt. People don't want to believe it, so many people, like in this video, try to push their opinion on others. Another look from the perspective of the time would suggest if something bad did happen, it wouldn't have gotten reported as the victim would have suffered more and even today children don't often speak up about abuse. The fact other people who had relationships with Carroll in their childhood and state they didn't have any problem isn't relevant at all as proof he never acted inappropriately. That's a bad argument too frequently used. Just because a child doesn't knock every single kid down on the playground isn't proof he didn't find one little weird kid to knock down when no one was looking. Most people who do bad things don't do them 100% of the time, and probably don't do them more often than they do. I believe it very likely happened he took advantage of at least one young girl, possibly Alice's sister if not her. It saddens me as it lessens one of favorite authors, but just because I don't want to believe it, doesn't skew my view of the evidence I've read and seen explored in news reports.
It is sad but people need to separate the art from the artist. I can't believe how many people excuse an obvious problem, cause they love someone's work.
I've researched this history a lot because the origin and Carroll's relationship with Alice fascinates me and if I remember correctly, there's speculation that something bad between him and Alice did happen because at one point her mother burned all of the letters he'd sent Alice and they were forbidden from communicating.
I'd say his full frontal nude of Irina (Ina) Liddell age 14 is proof. It's in a French art museum & on Google. . There's another 10yr old full frontal too. There's no way he'd have been given parental consent for that. Child nudes were only acceptable under puberty, semi covered or posed so sexual parts are covered. That was all that was acceptable as art back then, with no exceptions
Totally recommend reading Alice in Wonderland & Alice through the looking glass. The writing style is very interesting, and witty characters are great.
"Twas brillig, and the slithy toves Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: All mimsy were the borogoves, And the mome raths outgrabe. “Beware the Jabberwock, my son! The jaws that bite, the claws that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun The frumious Bandersnatch!” He took his vorpal sword in hand; Long time the manxome foe he sought- So rested he by the Tumtum tree And stood awhile in thought. And, as in uffish thought he stood, The Jabberwock, with eyes of flame, Came whiffling through the tulgey wood, And burbled as it came! One, two! One, two! And through and through The vorpal blade went snicker-snack! He left it dead, and with its head He went galumphing back. “And hast thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!” He chortled in his joy. ’Twas brillig, and the slithy toves Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: All mimsy were the borogoves, And the mome raths outgrabe."
I’ve been told that when I was born in the hospital, and my mum was asleep, my dad read Alice in Wonderland to me. I have been obsessed with it for as long as I can remember.
@@mint5438 I read it in like the 6th grade, it was really weird to me. It didnt seem to have a main point, as if he just..Wrote stuff down on paper like wtf-
I love the way Jon handles the relationship between Alice and the author. He acknowledges it’s weird now, but was part of the times and his explanation is just impartial enough
I really think you are great at researching and editing the videos - all of the contents are captivating and the time seems to fly! 👏👏👏 📌@Jon - Wondering what is your favorite quote from the book? 📖 “Who in the world am I? Ah, that's the great puzzle.” - that’s my fav quote for now (it used to be some other quotes through the years of reading the book) ♥️♥️ (Actually I have soooo many but it actually reflects how we perceive the world at the moment)🤗 I can’t wait to see the next week episode! - Alice in Wonderland has always been my favorite books Love your videos and will rewatch and share it with my friends and family as always! ❤️💋✌️😎
No, hate his videos. I'm really drunk right now and I'm and all time big fan of Alice in Wonderland, but I think your comment is more fair and deep than this video. Well, okay, don't hate. Love is better. Just keep your own thinking capacy
Fran Martinez Come on Fran - this is only the fracture of Alice’s story in depth. Watch it again when you’re sober - as I am also “a” big fan of both Alice’s book series and the Walt Disney’s Classic. There are many people that still doesn’t know how this story comes alive and inspired so many artists especially John Lennon. Lots of people involved the book with psychedelic substances - but it is not. Love is better than hate - just give the video another chance once you are sober, man!! 😎 Peace ✌️ ♥️ Make Love Not War! ☮️ And Good day to you!
All and all... Fran Martinez, it might not be as deep as you might have expected on this one but think of those who doesn’t know anything yet - they need to learn about the basic things too, right? ^^ (that is actually my point of the prior reply - I just woke up and it is 5 something AM - sorry if I might not be clear enough at first)
Hi Eva, sorry I didn't reply right away. But I did read your comments right away. I'm very good with your interpretation of sister / mother interpretation. As I said now shamefully, I was drunk. And honestly I wasn't even able to put real attention to the whole video. I just started to rant. I love this story very much , because "real" life seems so baffling to me as Alice could have feel while in this madness of wonderland, that I bounded by alcohol, could not stand any other explanation. Not from a so called "neurotipical" person as this you tuber. I keep faithful to my comments, but now that I'm sober, I take off the hate and rage. That was alcohol talking. PS; I think you're really smart and someone exciting to share opinions with.
@@detwins77 I read your work on G+ as well - I'm not perfect in Spanish but I can see that the thing you wrote is pretty cool (in theory and in terms of the choice of words)
I have to say I am very impressed with your intelligence and articulation. You don't talk like the stereotypical gen z or millennial. You sound like you could have been gen x. I enjoy your explanations greatly.
I did a research project on this book years ago in school. I think the most profound thing you said in this video was "this was written to be a nonsense book for children, and not supposed to be a treasure trove for psychoanalytic investigation". I think so many people pick this book apart or use Alice as a symbol for mental illness and drugs, when in reality nothing could've been further from the truth. If anything, this book is a treasure trove for nerdy math puns and playing with the perception of reality in a light way. As well as making fun of certain people Carrol knew.
@@MrParkerman6 Hey bud? It’s actually Alice Liddell, *cough* dumbass!! You really out here calling someone stupid for what, making a mistake that oh wait, you also made:/ . .....Still pronounced the same way though!!! Also why did you capitalize the T, S, and W?
Hey, let’s not generalize. Some people just genuinely want to tell a fun story. Or are we just talking about white men from centuries ago? Because if so, then yeah lol
Everything is "American'ized"...you make it more appealing. If half of these stories weren't changed, most kids would've had mixed emotions about some of these films/stories...lol
So does that mean you don't know about Aurora being repeatedly raped and giving birth under the sleeping curse in "Sleeping Beauty" before a random prince happens to wake her? Those types of events fill the fairy tales only to be removed when children's movies were made long after.
@@MrParkerman6 He means the first drafts, all stories go through a bunch of drafts and changes both be the author and by others feedback. Clearly one of the early drafts was criticized for being too dark.
I love the Alice books so much I’m in the process of having a full sleeve tattoo of Alice things done. Also, my brother did a speech at my wedding and ended it with a quote from through the looking glass. I bloody love Alice.
Alice has been one of my favorites as long back as I can remember...I was a rather solitary child and books were my preferred companions. Charles Dodgson was a brilliant young man who created a marvelous world of magic and fantasy for all children. I've been enjoying your narratives very much, by the way, especially as I had been introduced to the original fairytales as a child more than the sugary modernized versions. You're doing a wonderful job.
Had to read and analyze this book for my English university course and it was such a treat! Never had such a fond time reading literature and discussing it.
Lewis told the story while riding down the peaceful river banks of England. Also a deep look into his history reveals items that might have inspired him a glove and a fan. Also he had Alice in Wonderland syndrome he saw things shrink and grow.
I seriously love how you bring the people who watches this into other places. I'm 34 years old and have read real books in the past. I love you have done a in depth talk about a "movie' compared to the book
AVERAGE LIFE EXPECTANCY IN VICTORIAN AGE IS 30 ish 15 ain't so young especially when you need to procreate too survive back then REMBER THE PLAGUE????? They didn't have the privileges you have!!!!!!!!
@@chae1557 I personally find it fascinating how people can enforce new age morals and thought processes on an era that had such a different culture it might as well have been an alien world. According to all records nothing happened and children had nothing but good things to say, people had shorter lives so what's considered pedophilia or even what's considered Middle Age was extremely different, and the Victorian Era as a whole had a lot more admiration for the purity of children.
Alice's parents literally barred him from seeing her because his obsession got so creepy. He tried to marry her when she was a child and the parents didn't like that. They didn't want him around thier children because they saw him for what he was, a creepy pedophile.
I do think something did happen between Alice, & him. Because he had a falling out, with Alice, & the family. They did become friends again, but not as close. This came from historians, discussing it, on a documentary.
Thanks for watching, SoloFam! I hope you guys are as excited about going down the rabbit hole as I am!
~ CORRECTIONS ~ I said that Alice was sitting with her mother in the movie but it's actually her sister. Not a big deal, but a surprisingly large amount of you are fixating on correcting that mix-up so I figured I'd let all 200 of you know I've seen your comments ;)
snow white
Love your videos bro! Never miss a single one :) keep up the good work! Also just so you know, the woman reading to Alice is still supposed to be her sister not her mother :)
Oh you caught that, sorry lol
Can you do the wizard of oz
Fran Martinez (This is my personal thoughts tho - you might be disagree with me but I really think it can be a productive debates)
I think the role of the sister in 1951 Disney’s Classic doesn’t really affect Alice’s perspective as much as you might have been giving her the credits for, although in the book she might have been an impact on Alice’s and the readers’ perspective.
Because the fact that is affecting Alice, is more evolving around how she think about the book and how she prefers the books to be. (I think this part goes for both the 1951 Disney’s Classic and the book)
As Alice “peeped into the book her sister was reading, but it had no pictures or conversations in it, “and what is the use of a book,” thought Alice, “without pictures or conversations?”
And you see... Alice books are based upon “pictures and conversations” and on that it doesn’t really affect if the character placed in the 1951 movie portrays by her sister or her mother... but Jon has corrected it already.
Alice's sister is never named, only appears for a moment.
While Alice is young enough to believe in her adventures, her sister is mature enough to know they are fantasy, but still childlike enough that she can appreciate them.
For the book - this way, Alice's sister stands in for the reader, showing us how to appreciate the Alice books even after we're grown. The book also ends from the perspective of Alice's sister - the only moment at which the reader doesn't see things through Alice's eyes.
By moving into the mind of the sister, Carroll allows the reader to think about how Alice's adventure might affect her over the long term, and to see how Wonderland was inspired by people and things from the real world.
So as Jon is correct about the book and made little mistake on the movie part - you can find it in your heart that it is not that big of a deal, Fran.
Peace out✌️ ☮️ ❤️
- Eva
snow white
“How long is forever?”
“Sometimes, just a second.”
- Mad Hatter~
Interesting
Army!!!
Sometimes seconds feel like forever, like in school
You are a god if thats literal for you.
Damn. (Hi army💜)
“I’m not crazy, my reality is just.....different from yours”
-Cheshire Cat
So true and Cheshire is my favorite character :D
Doctor Carl Show mine too
Where’s that quote from?
@@fredarok579 From Alice in wonderland said by the Cheshire cat
Maria Karlsson Well, it’s definitely not in the book. Believe me, I would know. In fact, in the book, the cat is the only one in Wonderland to admit to being crazy. I quote, “We’re all mad here. I’m mad. You’re mad.”
“Her sister was sitting nearby, reading a book with no pictures or words”. That sounds like a very empty book
i think a notebook, or a legitamite book without those lol
he got it wrong by accident, the actual quote is “a book that had no pictures or conversations in it”
Jade Crystal Yes it was her studies - the conversation with her reciting her studies with the smoking caterpillar.
Numbers exist.
"How can you read this?, There's no pictues!"
- Gaston
"Have I gone crazy?"
"I'm afraid you have. You're completely bonkers. But can I tell you a secret?
All the best people are."
~Alice in Wonderland (2009)~
You mean 2010
@@derycktoney1565 oh oops lol
*cough melanie martinez mad hatter cough cough*
@@makiharukawa7337 *CRYBABY FANGIRLING*
Yass
Alice in wonderland is like a fever dream, literally.
OMG i thought i was the only one who got those!
Or is it a mushroom trip?
Lucid Delerium
It is infact based on the trip of the Fly Agaric aka Amanita Muscaria Mushroom aka Mario Shroom lol
I've had simular on acid lmao it's crazy
"Now without further ado, Alice's adventures in wonderland" *ad plays*
fucking midrolls XD
Correction ~ “ado” (I think it might be the autocorrect on your keyboard tho - happens a lot with my typing as well) 😘
I was so fucked up by it but couldn’t even stay mad because the timing couldn’t have been more impeccable.
Same
SilverStream that happened to me too!!
“His shoulder was higher than the other” me:scoliosis
Literally what I thought as soon as he said that.
*SCOLIOSIS*
Me: Me! (and scoliosis)
Sheik Asor RehtnaP Knip ::: Would that also account for his eyes being out of balance?
dallimamma I don’t think so my mom has pretty bad scoliosis and perfect vision even in her 50’s
"The tiniest door you've ever seen."
Willy Wonka: Am I a joke to you?
Underrated comment
i know right
@@delhaney11 overrated. This joke is so overused-
@@sophia.aquino. Never heard it before but ok
Lol 😂 exactly
I just found this channel a week ago and i have been here ever since
I can never get tired of these vids
Welcome to the dark side of everything and everyone.
Bounty Hunter Kakuzu Right? Not that they’re ever boring, but they’re great to fall asleep to. A sort of messed-up - but still comforting - bedtime story.
Yo kak where's my money
I found him in
Jan 2018
Same!!
I literally forgot this was supposed to come out today. Thank god for UA-cam notifications im ready
Me too dude/dudette!
bigbo - dude/dudette?? 😅 i mean im cool with it
I'm a Virgo ♍
I'm Virgo to! ♍ September 7,2007!!
@@aubrieevans7508 hello love!!!!!! ♍💛
Okay but can we look for Alice's other eyebrow? It disappeared on the thumbnail
Milki Teaaa lmao I didn’t even notice that wtf
@@line7596 That was the first thing i saw
No joke, I just saw a video with a woman with just one eyebrow after reading your comment xD
Witch of Despair { No hope, no life } your FBI agent is quick
@@d.jazelle XD
Jon: Why would a grown man be friends with a little girl??
Me: *cough cough Wreck-It Ralph*
Yeah 😂
Or Beetlejuice
Grooming
@@BiteSizedCrafter Yeah that too
@Oof TvT Sadly
Is it just me but the scene with the *Walrus and the oysters* scared the living shit out of me when i was little... 😅
Omg yes
The science with the lizard always scared me lol idk why but I love the movie soo much jus that one character lol
Same
Me too
*he frikin ate her babies*
"I'm afraid I can't explain myself, sir. Because I am not myself, you see?"
I do Knot 🎀 ➰....C!!!!!!
when I first found your channel, I thought it was gonna be like the others who create super fake deep and gritty theories about children stories and spin fake facts to make it all more interesting without doing any actual research. Not only am I glad I was wrong, but I also stop everything when a new video comes out! Great work dude!
Yes! I thought the same but I was kind bored and gave it a try because the thumbnail for the flute player was cool - happy surprise!
Same honestly! I just found this channel today and I'm so glad it's not a fake theory channel!
Yeah instead it's just hin justifying real pedophilia, good content
Fun Fact: Alice was drawn wearing a yellow dress in the original book because it was the color of insanity at the time. You can see Alice wearing yellow at 8:43, 10:21, 13:04, 13:53, and 14:41.
Ohhhhh, is that why the wallpaper is yellow in that short story?
i guess that would explain the Beatles song “Yellow Submarine”.. and the film…
"We're all mad here"
I have the Cheshire cat hoodie that says that lol
Actually It's "Most Everyone's Mad Here!"
@@wingellhymer9139Disney film :
"If I were looking for a white rabbit, I'd ask the Mad Hatter."
Alice: The Mad Hatter? Oh, no no no...
"Or, you could ask the March Hare, in that direction."
Alice: Oh, thank you. I think I'll see him...
"Of course, he's mad, too."
Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
"Oh, you can't help that. Most everyone's mad here." (Starts to disappear) "You may have noticed that I'm not all there myself."
In the novel, it goes:
"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."
We all float down here
Oh wait, wrong movie.
Blobbert Mcblob Um...
Remember kids dont do drugs...
*Or you'll end up in wonderland...*
i'm in wonderland right now. send help
@@DickDiamond74 did you steal my oregano and cilantro...No wonder the police was outside.
lol good one I forget which channel it is but they tell you about different codes at Disney world & land one of those codes being white lines when I hear that I thought they meant someone was doing drugs but it means someone spreading the ashes of a loved one on a ride
So... I SHOULDN'T eat this mysterious mushroom I found in a very strange garden???
No this is patrick lol
One needs to remember that he took nude photos of Alice's older sister even after she was too old to fall under the social norm, and that Alice's mother barred him from seeing any of the girls later on. Alice's family says that although the mother was never explicit with other family members regarding all the reasons, part was said to be the inappropriate photos and had found him trying to court the oldest sister in secret over the years, even before she was old enough to be considered an adult.
You are absolutely right im glad you put that in the comment section
@Ivore Surkuri there's a documentary called "the secret world of lewis carrol" here on yt that elaborates on his questionable relationships with kids and that photo
There are many things pointing at the possibility that he (at least in the case of the liddells) had inappropriate thoughts about kids: there was this sudden ban from socialising with the liddell kids by their mom, ripped out diary pages of the days their fall-out happened and a questionable naked photo (of the girl who is presumably Alice's older sister) whose edges were cut to erase the number and the signature of the maker of that photo
These things appear not to be widely known(?) though since most of his autobiographers are always quick to defend him
I don't care if the pictures of the younger ones were socially acceptable or not, they were just as wrong and all these people defending it need to be shown how it feels to be an abused child
@@thatcoffee yes, I watched that documentary. Very good and very troubling.
What likely caused the falling out was not him being skeevy with Alice or courting anyone "in secret" but more likely him actually expressing interest in marrying Ina (who would have been 13/14 at the time and ready for courtship) and her mother basically saying my daughter will not be marrying a lowly professor. Back then, marrying out of your class was more of a taboo then photographing young girls naked or hanging out with a 10 year old all day.
Alice is going to need some serious therapy
Man the Victorian Era was weird..
Opium. That is all
Do you really think the present era is any less weird?
Eric Lord yes, I definitely believe this era is less weird. If you honestly believe that our era and the Victorian era are comparable or similar in any ways you’re a whole clown
Ikr?
Today is weird.
“Alice started crying, something that children and myself are known to do...” 😝😝😝😂😂
😂🤣😂
😂😂😜😭
Jon its her older sister not her mother 😂
Lunarcats 2323
I right away went Older sister LOL
Thank you!!
i was huh? ant it her sister? (im not a fan of the cartoon one)
@Lunarcats 2323 could the cartoon have made the older female character Alice's mother. I never saw the cartoon , but did read the book and in it Alice is with her sister.
@@PatriciaPerkowski its possible but from what ive heard it is her older sister in all the adaptations
Nobody just makes a nonsense book. People create art based on their life experiences, even if it's fiction.
I disagree.
Many artists deliberately set out to make nonsense.
Just as an appropriate example, the song "I Am the Walrus."
Lennon was frustrated by everyone dissecting Beatles' song lyrics, so he set out to make something impossible to decipher.
Reportedly saying upon completion, "let em sort this one out."
😄
Joel Bizzell wouldnt that Lennon song have come from his life experiences then? As you say, he created it as a direct response to his experiences with people over-analyzing his music.
no the author actually wrote this book for a child bc he was a pedophile and wanted to groom her
Usually if they do make nonsense, it's either due to drugs, a mental breakdown, arrogance (thinking that people will still like your writing if you write whatever, whether or not it makes sense), as a prank, or out of desperation for new ideas.
ImLissy wait, was he really a pedophile
Messed up origins of Hansel and Gretel next?
Ohh that would be a good one
i would like to see that one as well.
YES
There's gonna be several episodes of Alice, so I'm not sure others will be coming out until it's over
Big yes to this
isnt alice in wonderland already messed up
I hope it's messed up or we have smoked the wrong thing.
What's messed up about it? It's a nonsense story for children. Like a story kids would make up as they played with thier toys.
@Alira Cohen so you didn't have villains out to kill the hero when you played with toys?
Yeah , I know, right? The craziest amount of nonsensical stuff. I think I remember going over this novel in English Literature class in High School. I love Literary stuff . Being on the Lit Magazine staff was amazing.
Lmao I never thought it was as messed up as everyone thought. oH iTs AbOuT dRuGs!1!!1 um no sweaty it’s not. Literally about stuff that don’t make sense
I thought it was her elder sister in the movie not her mother.
It is her elder sister. There is nothing in the Disney movie saying it is the mother. The scene is very truthfull to the book in overall. However, they never adress their relation at all in the scene. So it opens up for missconceptions if you never red the book.
Creativa Artly it was her sister he just didn’t know
Creativa Artly Yeah, I remember Alice calling her by her name, not mother.
Yes , that’s right . I remember, because I remember when we were discussing the book in English class we also learned about the time period of the author. In this time of history it was still deemed inappropriate to call your mother by her name. It’s definitely her elder sister !! ( I remember a lot about the movie, she called her by “ name “ . Although for the life of me I couldn’t tell you what her sister’s name was ...!!! )
@@ErikDaVinci in the end credits it says Alice's sister.
Imagine being Alice's sisters and seeing her as the protagonist of the story, while you are represented by two birds who only appear in one chapter.
The older siblings probably recognized that the story version of Alice was more of a communal punching bag to the denizens of Wonderland than a protagonist, and didn't feel like they were missing out on much.
I can actually understand this point on the befriending children thing a lot. I’m friends with many school children since I work in a supermarket and often at the time when they finish school. I receive daily hugs, excited renditions of their days and ‘I love you!’ From other people’s children. Due to horrible people in the world I jump through hoops to make sure the parents are always present and aware every step of the way, but I can imagine when simpler times would have made the rest completely normal. Kids are adorable! And they’re view on the world is wonderful and kind of reminds me why life is precious.
I just watched a documentary on Lewis Carroll, and you show just as much, (if not more), research for this video. Looking forward to the next 3! Great job 👍🏻
Just because it wasn't considered unusual doesn't mean it's not messed up 😲
the point is that it was a different time. We judge it harshly because that’s not how we live now but morality shifts as humans evolve and morality is subjective, not objective.
@Ghost_Troupe Indeed! Wrong is wrong. I don't care what era it occurred in.
@@philiphoyle true man, in my country it is completely unacceptable for a 13 year old to be having sex in any way or even a boyfriend/girlfriend
this whole thread made me uncomfortable. asserting an objective morality is something i still can't agree with, but i do still feel it's so far passed bad in the general sense of established societal morality that arguing for a superlative essence of morality has merit. i think there was a philosophy tube episode on this. in the context of left and right in the usa, there are differences in what they consider to be objective morality, like gay marriage or abortion.
but this whole thread made me really uncomfortable. it should be obvious that hurting kids is wrong.
idk
i loved this book so much too and now i'm sad
The point is that it was not considered sexual, it wasn't a highly sexualized time where everything is looked at in salacious terms. Naked children were considered innocent and cherubic, not objects of sexual desire.
Nothing weird happened with the little girls.....
Literally next sentence:
He took nude photos of their children
But don't forget the context people!
Jeff Oliver pedophilia was and is very common for Europeans. It dates back to the Greeks and Pederasty. We like to pretend now that these relationships were innocent, but adult child sexual relations were very common and just not spoken about. Just like incest in Europe. The lord of the manor was given the right of taken the virginity of everyone in his household to include his daughters. After coming in contact with people in places where these practices were taboo and seen as immoral, Europeans adapted.
Jeff Oliver It doesn’t matter what year it was. A grown man hanging with little girls taking naked pictures of them is a pedophile. It’s never been okay . The only people who thinks it is are pedophiles and their enablers.
@Jeff Oliver
Put nude children on greeting cards..... 🙄🙄🙄🤬🤬🤬🤬😡😡 Some body call 9 11 cps or What ever. Nasty
@@RealNeedGore Did you fucking ignore what he explained about nude children in Victorian era?
@@misseses9091 THAT'S A BIG FUCKING STRETCH YIKES.
8:53 "She's reading a book without pictures or words"
...Well that's quite a talent.
Braille
No it was pictures and conversations. These 😸😸😸 and these "... ..."
They was having sex with children as young as ten or as soon as breast appeared.
New Hampshire just changed/increased their legal age from 13! This Year!
My grandmother was married at 12!
LONNIE DOBBINS
That's crazy!
Japan age of consent is 13 years old.
Yeah now it’s 14 in New Hampshire
In the time he was born the legal age of concent was 12, moved to 15 in 1875 and then to 16 (what it is now) in 1885. New Hampshire is in the usa, no?
Cam C yeah it is
Do a chicken little messed up origin
It's sick to think what people did to children. it's still happening it's a sickness
SAME! its so ridiculous,i understand that this was normal back then, but why take NUDE pictures of the kids? makes me feel sick
Living Woman Ministries no country accepts it! 🤦🏻♀️ Such ignorance! These are individuals, found the world over! Females as well as males. And many of these criminal acts take place within the family homes of the victims. And Africa, Switzerland, China....heck....every country on this planet has an issue with pedophiles! This not wanting to believe they are not accepted in your country but are elsewhere is somewhat naive. They travel to carry out their crimes, also. From every background, level of education, upbringing, career path, etc.
Marquis De Lafayette rubbish! Not every single person living in ‘A’ country is in acceptance of such a thing. That is gross ignorance to imply that of a peoples. There are pedos high up who hide it, and this is not unique to a country or four, this is worldwide. These sick individuals will prey on the poorest, the most vulnerable youngsters in society-even parents sell their kids to live with older people who then marry them, at times, and then rape them as children. These people are found in every part of society and like any other illegal behaviour, is shared among a type! Sick! They need children, have them or whoever can get access to them. With the less hassle the better. That’s on a grand scale a more international, level. Then you get those individuals who prey on young family members. It doesn’t matter on what level, the fact is children are being horribly, brutally abused and not EVERY country or those in it accept that! You need to read up more on the subject. It’s a massive worldwide issue because it’s present everywhere. There are forces who do bust these sex slave markets and it’s rife from poor way up to rich. The more you read the more you learn about this. Alas, I have worked with child sex abuse victims. I see the reality of it, and who is affected and hurt. And these have been young children up to young adults-18/19. All nationalities. Some have escaped from their home countries to live with family based on where they have relocated to.
Marquis De Lafayette it’s not collective. The only people who will accept it and allow it are the pedophiles themselves. Not entire nations. And the frightening thing is they go to any lengths to get what they want, they help each other get what they want. So a poor man will be friends with a rich man because they have that revolting connection. 🤢 It makes you go cold and your stomach goes into knots realising what goes on where.
Marquis De Lafayette but you are implying that some countries don’t accept it at all, so you are still suggesting that there are countries where it isn’t an issue, or that people from that country in particular allow it as in general. They are Everywhere and in Every country and there are people in every country from all across the board who don’t accept it and want them locked up. For life.
So early there were no ads
For those interested in an actual very similar movie version of the book, I STRONGLY recommend the 1999 version. This is overall pretty accurate to the book, has a lot of great quotes in it (both from and not from the book), and is filled with famous British actors (for example the guy who played Hagrid from Harry Potter plays one of the Tweedles) :)
Exactly :D
I liked this movie as a kid 👍
But gee i didn't know one of the tweedles was played by the actor who played Hagrid 😅
Wait I think I watched that version. Gene Wilder was the Mock Turtle and Whoopi Goldberg was the Cheshire Cat. Edit: just checked it. I did watch that movie it also had Christopher Lloyd and Miranda Richardson as the White Knight and the Queen of Hearts respectfully.
It was my favorite movie growing up!
The pic of him kissing little Alice, would undermine any doubt of his feelings toward her. That wasn't obvious?
Our times are far more obsessed w sex. Chaste kisses were common then.
@@Brianbeesandbikes no that's not even true. Victorians were so obsessed with sex they hid piano and table legs under skirts. Chaste kisses also weren't between adult men and female children on the mouth. You people have absolutely lost it.
Looked to me like Alice was kissing him... an innocent thing a child would do
JUST STOP
@@christinash2235 wait but dont many adults and children share a quick kiss in todays society? I know plenty parents do it, and I assume it wouldnt be weird for close family friends to do so as well... Some places just dont find it sexual or romantic in any way.
When I was five, I remember hearing the story of Alice in Wonderland read on TV by a local kindergarten teacher. It was chapter by chapter. I didn't understand a lot of it. It was only some years later when I read the actual book(along with great footnotes)that I fully appreciated the stories and the author. When I was nine I saw the Disney movie...and thought it had left too much out. (That's Disney for ya!)
Every Disney Story Has a Wicked Origin, This Should Be a Red Flag To Y’all
It's not Disney.
Laura M It Is Actually... Look It Up
@@javivizzy Disney took it as a movie way after it was written
Laura M That’s What I Said, Every Disney Story Has a Wicked Origin... 🤦🏻 Learn How To Read
Disney actually took the book literally. History is bad now a days. .. But you tool perspective from Disney and not the Victorian writer himself.
i just wanted to let you know that this was recommended to me under 'electro music' due to the background music you use
have a nice day
bupple jum the porn music
Last summer I read "Alice in Wonderland" and "Through the looking glass" they both made no sense! I had to reread "Through the Looking Glass" to try to make sense of it..... it still didn't even make sense XD
It's not meant to because she dreamed it
it's not made to make sense, and that's what makes it great
@Yes Sir! what? the books are amazing and such classics
@@eleven-hopper different tastes for different people. Just because it's classic doesn't necessarily mean it's objectively good. Creative for sure, absolutely memorable, but tastes always vary
@@tuckinatorinator787 i know. I was just saying that even if you think it's garbage, you should respect it for the book it is and the people that like it
Lewis was a mathematician, when people break it down that way, it makes the most sense to me. There is a whole book about decoding the book lol. I love to hear takes on this movie and the book. It’s my favorite Disney movie/book that I still watch for comfort as an adult. My friend bought me an Alice in wonderland book from a thrift store only to discover it is worth several hundred dollars, I’ll never give it up!
This movie is literally my childhood
XD SHE LOST HER EYEBROW!!! look at the thumbnail
It was driving me crazy. Every time I scroll past and it's not there...*eye twitch intensified*
Someone shaved it off while she was dreaming about Wonderland, and the thumbnail shows her first look in the mirror when she wakes up.
@@tsopmocful1958 XD TRUE😁!!!
I just realized that that's hilarious!
Oml yes
Has anyone else noticed the similarities between Alice in wonderland and the matrix?
It's almost like the matrix is a reverse version. Where neo begins in wonderland and leaves to the real world.
Think about it.
He follows a white rabbit (the tattoo) to the club. Where he meets trinity who in turn leads him to morpheus. Morpheus gives him the pill, he then has an awakening, falls down a long disposal tube (the rabbit hole) into a different world.
Even the characters on the neberkaneza (maybe mispelt) resemble the characters in wonderland.
mad hatter, white rabbit, tweedledumb, tweedledee, the mouse, March hare, caterpillar, the Cheshire cat. 8 characters that mentor Alice.
Morpheus, trinity, tank, dozer, mouse, switch, apoc, cypher, switch 8 characters that mentor neo.
Dozer and tank are twins like the twins in Alice.
Mouse is...Mouse
Morpheus could be the mad hatter,
Switch the white rabbit,
Trinity the hare (fast)
Mouse....Mouse
Cyper the Cheshire cat
Apoc the caterpillar maybe....
Then they have the breakfast, throat scenes like the tea party.
The whole thing of awakening at the end, neo dies then awakens after being cornered.
Running from the agents at the end...
The trial of Alice /interrogation of morpheus.
I don't know its seems like there's alot of links between the two stories.
Even morpheus talks about "you've been living in a dream world" etc
Holy shizzle your right
Bring out the tin foil hat. Joking. You’re right a lot of similarities.
Holy crap
There is a channel on UA-cam called, "Children of Its Real Out Here," and he says all Hollywood movies are the same but we just don't realize it. Initially I didn't believe him. However, In his videos he does have the same breakdown of every movie he reviews.
Congratulations, it only took you a couple of years to realize that???
Alice's sister before death wrote a letter basically saying that he was a pedophile. Alice was too young even at that time.
No she didn't. She wrote that he was in love with HER. he was in love with the older Sister, not Just Alice.
@@MrParkerman6 which makes him a pedophile.
@@malkay7927 sounds like justifying pedophelia... he took naked photos of children, went on dates with little girls, and was “in love” with little girls. You can blame it on the culture of the time, but that doesn’t make it ok. Just because something was commonly accepted at a certain time period, doesn’t make it ok. For example, slavery was never ok, no matter how many times it happened and continues to happen. Little girls shouldn’t marry old men. Children shouldn’t be an obsession of old men. Pedophelia is never ok.
Stop justifying it. Accept that historically many people who did great things with their lives (became well known authors, politicians, artists, etc.) were also pedophiles. Then, decide to do better for the next generation of kids, and move on.
@@nancymariahp you misunderstood and yes I agree with everything being said. But what I was pointing out was that he would not have known it was wrong because it was the societal norm. Not that I think it was right. I also just took it down because I don't want an argument over something as dumb as adding information without saying whether I agreed or not and then being attacked. Back then they were raised a certain way and had to follow that or they would face consequences for being different. That's all I was saying.
Leave it to today’s people to try to cancel niggas from the 1800s. Just 200 years before that, people got married at 15 to people who were already adults. And 200 years before that, Kings and Queens (basically president and supreme leaders) would give their 13-16 year old to a prince or even a king to be married for a unity kingdoms.
Er, actually, the woman giving Alice her history lesson is her sister. The voice actor is titled as such in the credits.
Alice doesn't land on her head in the movie, she lands upside-down with her feet hooked over a bar.
Er could u do better....
👌👌
Isn't that suppose to her sister, not mother?
Bomber Blurr Yes, he should reference the actual book for
accuracy.
Kathy Coleman 8:50
Kalika Fay watch the whole thing before you make your opinions
There is evidence to suggest Lewis Carroll's relationship with the children in Alice's family wasn't okay even within the perspective of the time. There's no absolute proof, but there's enough to raise doubt. People don't want to believe it, so many people, like in this video, try to push their opinion on others. Another look from the perspective of the time would suggest if something bad did happen, it wouldn't have gotten reported as the victim would have suffered more and even today children don't often speak up about abuse.
The fact other people who had relationships with Carroll in their childhood and state they didn't have any problem isn't relevant at all as proof he never acted inappropriately. That's a bad argument too frequently used. Just because a child doesn't knock every single kid down on the playground isn't proof he didn't find one little weird kid to knock down when no one was looking. Most people who do bad things don't do them 100% of the time, and probably don't do them more often than they do.
I believe it very likely happened he took advantage of at least one young girl, possibly Alice's sister if not her. It saddens me as it lessens one of favorite authors, but just because I don't want to believe it, doesn't skew my view of the evidence I've read and seen explored in news reports.
It is sad but people need to separate the art from the artist. I can't believe how many people excuse an obvious problem, cause they love someone's work.
I've researched this history a lot because the origin and Carroll's relationship with Alice fascinates me and if I remember correctly, there's speculation that something bad between him and Alice did happen because at one point her mother burned all of the letters he'd sent Alice and they were forbidden from communicating.
I'd say his full frontal nude of Irina (Ina) Liddell age 14 is proof. It's in a French art museum & on Google. . There's another 10yr old full frontal too. There's no way he'd have been given parental consent for that. Child nudes were only acceptable under puberty, semi covered or posed so sexual parts are covered. That was all that was acceptable as art back then, with no exceptions
DAMMMN!! DON'T NEED TO WRITE A FRIKIN ESSAY OF THE VIDEO!
@BTIsaac I don't think it's okay to be an adult with the attraction to teens, since they're still minors.
"why would a grown man be friends with a little girl" immediately thought of your peter pan video sdhfhjsgf
lmao i just watched that video so same😪
Reminds me of Michael Jackson too. But we see what he was accused of. Smh
@@phglam You heard Mortal Man by Kendrick Lamar?
Totally recommend reading Alice in Wonderland & Alice through the looking glass. The writing style is very interesting, and witty characters are great.
*Alice's Adventures in Wonderland.
*Through The Looking Glass and What Alice Found There.
It's not, both those movies suck
@@cameussmith They are talking about the books dummy dum dum
@@arielpabon4462 No they were talking about the shitty live action movies dummy dumm dum.
@@cameussmith Read the comments again lol
8:52 "... reading a book without pictures or words"....I'm confused 🤔
He meant a book without pictures or conversations 😄 (i.e., it's a boring history book rather than a story)
@@kumada84 ahh 💡 thanks
Her sister is probably blind and is reading braille
Or math perhaps?
This book sounds like all my dreams morphed into one big nightmare
" ’Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe."
I can resit the entire poem
"Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.
“Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!”
He took his vorpal sword in hand;
Long time the manxome foe he sought-
So rested he by the Tumtum tree
And stood awhile in thought.
And, as in uffish thought he stood,
The Jabberwock, with eyes of flame,
Came whiffling through the tulgey wood,
And burbled as it came!
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back.
“And hast thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!”
He chortled in his joy.
’Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe."
That background music had me feeling some kind of way.
eyes open....heads up...
*wait Disney Alice is missing an eyebrow in the thumbnail*
😱
I’ve been told that when I was born in the hospital, and my mum was asleep, my dad read Alice in Wonderland to me. I have been obsessed with it for as long as I can remember.
One of my teachers made us read the book once and it was the most confusing thing ever
Popcorn reading Alice in Wonderland was the most difficult fucking thing in High school, I swear
@@mint5438
I read it in like the 6th grade, it was really weird to me. It didnt seem to have a main point, as if he just..Wrote stuff down on paper like wtf-
Bruh at least you didn’t have to read narnia, that shi was boring
Lsd is a powerful drug.
Zane Yanas meth is a powerful drug
Actually lsd wasn't synthesized till 1950s
Shrooms are though
He actually was high writing the book he was on opium or laudanum.
How do you know lsd wasn’t available then just because it was Synthesized in the 1950s doesn’t mean people weren’t doing stuff with Ergot before then
That “mother” was her sister
Correct, though she looks much older!
I love the way Jon handles the relationship between Alice and the author. He acknowledges it’s weird now, but was part of the times and his explanation is just impartial enough
"And again, she has an emotional break down of how much she pity her situation"
LOL ME
THE FACT THAT ALICE IS YOUR ICON
Literally what I was going to say.
it's her sister in the film, too... it's in the credits somewhere; that's how the voice actress is credited
So curious how in depth Jon is going into the Alice in wonderland story!! I didn't know it was so big for it to be a 4 part. Looking forward to it!!
The king from the Disney version is adorable😅 It shows the queen really cares about her husband and that the king cares about his wife.
I really think you are great at researching and editing the videos - all of the contents are captivating and the time seems to fly! 👏👏👏
📌@Jon - Wondering what is your favorite quote from the book? 📖
“Who in the world am I? Ah, that's the great puzzle.” - that’s my fav quote for now (it used to be some other quotes through the years of reading the book) ♥️♥️
(Actually I have soooo many but it actually reflects how we perceive the world at the moment)🤗
I can’t wait to see the next week episode! - Alice in Wonderland has always been my favorite books
Love your videos and will rewatch and share it with my friends and family as always! ❤️💋✌️😎
No, hate his videos. I'm really drunk right now and I'm and all time big fan of Alice in Wonderland, but I think your comment is more fair and deep than this video. Well, okay, don't hate. Love is better. Just keep your own thinking capacy
Fran Martinez Come on Fran - this is only the fracture of Alice’s story in depth. Watch it again when you’re sober - as I am also “a” big fan of both Alice’s book series and the Walt Disney’s Classic. There are many people that still doesn’t know how this story comes alive and inspired so many artists especially John Lennon.
Lots of people involved the book with psychedelic substances - but it is not.
Love is better than hate - just give the video another chance once you are sober, man!! 😎 Peace ✌️ ♥️
Make Love Not War! ☮️ And Good day to you!
All and all... Fran Martinez, it might not be as deep as you might have expected on this one but think of those who doesn’t know anything yet - they need to learn about the basic things too, right? ^^ (that is actually my point of the prior reply - I just woke up and it is 5 something AM - sorry if I might not be clear enough at first)
Hi Eva, sorry I didn't reply right away. But I did read your comments right away. I'm very good with your interpretation of sister / mother interpretation. As I said now shamefully, I was drunk. And honestly I wasn't even able to put real attention to the whole video. I just started to rant. I love this story very much , because "real" life seems so baffling to me as Alice could have feel while in this madness of wonderland, that I bounded by alcohol, could not stand any other explanation. Not from a so called "neurotipical" person as this you tuber. I keep faithful to my comments, but now that I'm sober, I take off the hate and rage. That was alcohol talking. PS; I think you're really smart and someone exciting to share opinions with.
@@detwins77 I read your work on G+ as well - I'm not perfect in Spanish but I can see that the thing you wrote is pretty cool (in theory and in terms of the choice of words)
The Cheshire Cat is my favorite character.
Same!
Same bro
I have to say I am very impressed with your intelligence and articulation. You don't talk like the stereotypical gen z or millennial. You sound like you could have been gen x. I enjoy your explanations greatly.
No one.
Literally no one.
In the thumbnail, Alice has only one eye brow. The left eye brow is missing.
You are right O.O
Why did you tell me this😩
I did a research project on this book years ago in school. I think the most profound thing you said in this video was "this was written to be a nonsense book for children, and not supposed to be a treasure trove for psychoanalytic investigation". I think so many people pick this book apart or use Alice as a symbol for mental illness and drugs, when in reality nothing could've been further from the truth. If anything, this book is a treasure trove for nerdy math puns and playing with the perception of reality in a light way. As well as making fun of certain people Carrol knew.
Amazing work Jon! Can’t wait to see more of the series.
“Her sister is sitting nearby reading a book without pictures or words.”
what kind of mf book doesn’t have any pictures or *WORDS* in it!
I was looking for someone else to acknowledge this!
Blind, reading braille
A solely numerical book.. A phone book perhaps? Though it won't coincide with the period because phone books were invented in 1878 apparently.
rainy day but wouldn’t a diary have words in it??
Improvised Chaos OOOO THATS SMART
Today I'm going to talk about Lewis Carroll and his relationship with alice little
FBI OPEN UP!
Hahahaha lol
*Alice Liddle, dumbass. Still pronounced The Same Way, though.
I do hope you know that relationship in this context means how the two people are associated, if they are friends, related, or acquaintances.
@@MrParkerman6 Hey bud? It’s actually Alice Liddell, *cough* dumbass!! You really out here calling someone stupid for what, making a mistake that oh wait, you also made:/ .
.....Still pronounced the same way though!!! Also why did you capitalize the T, S, and W?
@@illegalmaknae550 Naked…photos…not…okay…PERIOD.
Yay! I cant wait. As soon as I saw I stopped *everything*
Almost all fairy tale writers that make up magical lands with female protagonists be like:
Pedophilia mode
Also peter pan.
@Ghost_Troupe I think it's pedophilia if they're under 18, because that makes them a minor.
@Sia Oh, ok. Thanks, I didn't know what it was called.
Hey, let’s not generalize. Some people just genuinely want to tell a fun story. Or are we just talking about white men from centuries ago? Because if so, then yeah lol
@@QueenCloveroftheice Yeah, basically. I mean the stories are still fun, even if some things are considered... questionable now days.
And remember, Jon shot first 💥
"Why else would a grown man be friends with a little girl?"
Johnny Bravo and Wreck it Ralph have entered the chat
I immediately dropped everything for this
Who ever knew that your favorite childhood movies had an original, darker version?
Everything is "American'ized"...you make it more appealing. If half of these stories weren't changed, most kids would've had mixed emotions about some of these films/stories...lol
So does that mean you don't know about Aurora being repeatedly raped and giving birth under the sleeping curse in "Sleeping Beauty" before a random prince happens to wake her? Those types of events fill the fairy tales only to be removed when children's movies were made long after.
@@selbarton I do
@@mistiroberts1576 I was born in the sixties I didn't know Aurora was raped
Isn’t the “original” Alice in wonderland like non existent because it was too grim or something along those lines?
??
No dumbass. Not even close to true. All versions still exist.
@@MrParkerman6 He means the first drafts, all stories go through a bunch of drafts and changes both be the author and by others feedback. Clearly one of the early drafts was criticized for being too dark.
@s k i m i P i e
Cuz they are being Dumbasses, Fruitcake. All Drafts and Versions of Lewis's writings of the Alice books still exist and can be read.
@@MrParkerman6 You keep calling people dumbasses and it’s making you look like one yourself.
I love the Alice books so much I’m in the process of having a full sleeve tattoo of Alice things done. Also, my brother did a speech at my wedding and ended it with a quote from through the looking glass.
I bloody love Alice.
I ALSO have "Alice In Wonderland" theme sleeve tats. 🖤🍄🌹💙
My thigh is designated to Alice in wonderland tattoos as well! (Disney movie version)
it’s 22:10
i need to sleep
but i’ve fallen down a rabbit hole
one called
*m e s s e d u p o r i g i n s*
Alice has been one of my favorites as long back as I can remember...I was a rather solitary child and books were my preferred companions. Charles Dodgson was a brilliant young man who created a marvelous world of magic and fantasy for all children. I've been enjoying your narratives very much, by the way, especially as I had been introduced to the original fairytales as a child more than the sugary modernized versions. You're doing a wonderful job.
Jon: "and now ladies and gentlemen, without further ado..."
**KIA commercial starts **
🤣
I just found you're channel and its really awesome. I love learning origin stories and you tell them beautifully.
Awh,. Alice..! In Wonderland! Disney masterpiece watching it right now/about to watch it right now.
Say Hi #NotificationSquad!
Hi
Hi!
HI 🤗
Yo.
HI
Had to read and analyze this book for my English university course and it was such a treat! Never had such a fond time reading literature and discussing it.
"Let's head in the rabbit hole."
Ad for firehouse subs pop up immediately for me.
"WHAT!"
Thanks Jon for the uber detailed information.
Welcome! Thanks for watching :)
No, thank you. I am learning so much from your channel.
Lewis told the story while riding down the peaceful river banks of England. Also a deep look into his history reveals items that might have inspired him a glove and a fan. Also he had Alice in Wonderland syndrome he saw things shrink and grow.
Hi! What about doing the Christmas Carol, next?"
I seriously love how you bring the people who watches this into other places. I'm 34 years old and have read real books in the past. I love you have done a in depth talk about a "movie' compared to the book
I find it odd that you blew off the relationship he had with little girls, and proclaiming "nothing happen" as if you know for sure.
he's clearly a defender of child abuse, it's disgusting
Phuck You I wouldn’t go that far.
Do I wish he didn’t gloss over that, no, but I wouldn’t go as far as saying he’s excusing or defending pedophilia.
AVERAGE LIFE EXPECTANCY IN VICTORIAN AGE IS 30 ish 15 ain't so young especially when you need to procreate too survive back then REMBER THE PLAGUE????? They didn't have the privileges you have!!!!!!!!
@@chae1557 I personally find it fascinating how people can enforce new age morals and thought processes on an era that had such a different culture it might as well have been an alien world. According to all records nothing happened and children had nothing but good things to say, people had shorter lives so what's considered pedophilia or even what's considered Middle Age was extremely different, and the Victorian Era as a whole had a lot more admiration for the purity of children.
Alice's parents literally barred him from seeing her because his obsession got so creepy. He tried to marry her when she was a child and the parents didn't like that. They didn't want him around thier children because they saw him for what he was, a creepy pedophile.
My theory is that Alice is high😂
Same
she off the cid
@Sun Flower huh
Same or she could be in a coma
Woman liking kids: Awww she's just looking after them.
Man liking kids: Wow he's disgusting! -_-
@@JennyRose1776 totally agree
Yeah pretty much they can’t be trusted
@@shelsparkle2691 who can't be trusted?
I thought they complain that msn aren't compassionate enough
erm he took naked photos of Alice Liddel and used to have weekends away with 15 year old girls.... it's weird.
I do think something did happen between Alice, & him. Because he had a falling out, with Alice, & the family. They did become friends again, but not as close. This came from historians, discussing it, on a documentary.