The Messed Up Origins of Alice in Wonderland (Pt. 1) | Disney Explained - Jon Solo
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- Опубліковано 29 лис 2018
- After receiving countless requests to break down the original Alice in Wonderland story... the day has finally come! Sit back, relax, and enjoy Lewis Carroll's most famous work. You don't wanna miss this... ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
▼ Timestamps ▼
» 1:50 - Disney Recap
» 4:00 - The Life of Lewis Carroll
» 8:43 - Chapter 1: Down the Rabbit Hole
» 11:11 - Chapter 2: The Pool of Tears
» 13:39 - Chapter 3: A Caucus-Race & a Long Tale
» 16:14 - Wrap-Up
► Get the Alice's Adventures in Wonderland audiobook FREE when you sign up at audibletrial.com/Solo
► WATCH PART 2: • The Messed Up Origins ...
► WATCH PART 3: • The Messed Up Origins ...
► WATCH PART 4: • The Messed Up Origins ...
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► Want more?
» Messed Up Origins: bit.ly/MessedUpOrgins
» Disney Explained: bit.ly/DisneyExplained
» Fables Explained: bit.ly/FablesExplained
» Mythology Explained: bit.ly/MythologyExplained
» Messed Up Murders: bit.ly/MurderPlaylist
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If you have a theory you'd like me to talk about you can comment down below OR share it on my official subreddit! Please do not send it to my business email :)
► Sources:
• Alice's Adventures Underground: www.gasl.org/refbib/Carroll__A...
• Alice's Adventures in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll (1865)
• Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Carroll (1871)
• The Annotated Alice: 150th Anniversary Deluxe Edition (2015)
• Charles Dodgson and the Liddell Family: • Charles Dodgson and th...
• Havilland Chepmell's Short Course of History (1848)
► Music Sources:
• REVEALING MY INTRO SONG! • REVEALING MY INTRO SONG!
• Background Music: Killing Time Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
#MessedUpOrigins #AliceinWonderland #DisneyExplained - Розваги
Thanks for watching, SoloFam! I hope you guys are as excited about going down the rabbit hole as I am!
~ CORRECTIONS ~ I said that Alice was sitting with her mother in the movie but it's actually her sister. Not a big deal, but a surprisingly large amount of you are fixating on correcting that mix-up so I figured I'd let all 200 of you know I've seen your comments ;)
snow white
Love your videos bro! Never miss a single one :) keep up the good work! Also just so you know, the woman reading to Alice is still supposed to be her sister not her mother :)
Oh you caught that, sorry lol
Can you do the wizard of oz
Fran Martinez (This is my personal thoughts tho - you might be disagree with me but I really think it can be a productive debates)
I think the role of the sister in 1951 Disney’s Classic doesn’t really affect Alice’s perspective as much as you might have been giving her the credits for, although in the book she might have been an impact on Alice’s and the readers’ perspective.
Because the fact that is affecting Alice, is more evolving around how she think about the book and how she prefers the books to be. (I think this part goes for both the 1951 Disney’s Classic and the book)
As Alice “peeped into the book her sister was reading, but it had no pictures or conversations in it, “and what is the use of a book,” thought Alice, “without pictures or conversations?”
And you see... Alice books are based upon “pictures and conversations” and on that it doesn’t really affect if the character placed in the 1951 movie portrays by her sister or her mother... but Jon has corrected it already.
Alice's sister is never named, only appears for a moment.
While Alice is young enough to believe in her adventures, her sister is mature enough to know they are fantasy, but still childlike enough that she can appreciate them.
For the book - this way, Alice's sister stands in for the reader, showing us how to appreciate the Alice books even after we're grown. The book also ends from the perspective of Alice's sister - the only moment at which the reader doesn't see things through Alice's eyes.
By moving into the mind of the sister, Carroll allows the reader to think about how Alice's adventure might affect her over the long term, and to see how Wonderland was inspired by people and things from the real world.
So as Jon is correct about the book and made little mistake on the movie part - you can find it in your heart that it is not that big of a deal, Fran.
Peace out✌️ ☮️ ❤️
- Eva
snow white
“I’m not crazy, my reality is just.....different from yours”
-Cheshire Cat
So true and Cheshire is my favorite character :D
Doctor Carl Show mine too
Where’s that quote from?
@@fredarok579 From Alice in wonderland said by the Cheshire cat
Maria Karlsson Well, it’s definitely not in the book. Believe me, I would know. In fact, in the book, the cat is the only one in Wonderland to admit to being crazy. I quote, “We’re all mad here. I’m mad. You’re mad.”
“Her sister was sitting nearby, reading a book with no pictures or words”. That sounds like a very empty book
i think a notebook, or a legitamite book without those lol
he got it wrong by accident, the actual quote is “a book that had no pictures or conversations in it”
Jade Crystal Yes it was her studies - the conversation with her reciting her studies with the smoking caterpillar.
Numbers exist.
"How can you read this?, There's no pictues!"
- Gaston
"Have I gone crazy?"
"I'm afraid you have. You're completely bonkers. But can I tell you a secret?
All the best people are."
~Alice in Wonderland (2009)~
You mean 2010
@@derycktoney1565 oh oops lol
*cough melanie martinez mad hatter cough cough*
@@makiharukawa7337 *CRYBABY FANGIRLING*
Yass
Jon: Why would a grown man be friends with a little girl??
Me: *cough cough Wreck-It Ralph*
Yeah 😂
Or Beetlejuice
Grooming
@@BiteSizedCrafter Yeah that too
@Oof TvT Sadly
“How long is forever?”
“Sometimes, just a second.”
- Mad Hatter~
Interesting
Army!!!
Sometimes seconds feel like forever, like in school
You are a god if thats literal for you.
Damn. (Hi army💜)
Alice in wonderland is like a fever dream, literally.
OMG i thought i was the only one who got those!
Or is it a mushroom trip?
Lucid Delerium
It is infact based on the trip of the Fly Agaric aka Amanita Muscaria Mushroom aka Mario Shroom lol
I've had simular on acid lmao it's crazy
"The tiniest door you've ever seen."
Willy Wonka: Am I a joke to you?
Underrated comment
i know right
@@delhaney11 overrated. This joke is so overused-
@@sophia.aquino. Never heard it before but ok
Lol 😂 exactly
Fun Fact: Alice was drawn wearing a yellow dress in the original book because it was the color of insanity at the time. You can see Alice wearing yellow at 8:43, 10:21, 13:04, 13:53, and 14:41.
Ohhhhh, is that why the wallpaper is yellow in that short story?
i guess that would explain the Beatles song “Yellow Submarine”.. and the film…
Remember kids dont do drugs...
*Or you'll end up in wonderland...*
i'm in wonderland right now. send help
@@DickDiamond74 did you steal my oregano and cilantro...No wonder the police was outside.
lol good one I forget which channel it is but they tell you about different codes at Disney world & land one of those codes being white lines when I hear that I thought they meant someone was doing drugs but it means someone spreading the ashes of a loved one on a ride
So... I SHOULDN'T eat this mysterious mushroom I found in a very strange garden???
No this is patrick lol
“His shoulder was higher than the other” me:scoliosis
Literally what I thought as soon as he said that.
*SCOLIOSIS*
Me: Me! (and scoliosis)
Sheik Asor RehtnaP Knip ::: Would that also account for his eyes being out of balance?
dallimamma I don’t think so my mom has pretty bad scoliosis and perfect vision even in her 50’s
They was having sex with children as young as ten or as soon as breast appeared.
New Hampshire just changed/increased their legal age from 13! This Year!
My grandmother was married at 12!
LONNIE DOBBINS
That's crazy!
Japan age of consent is 13 years old.
Yeah now it’s 14 in New Hampshire
In the time he was born the legal age of concent was 12, moved to 15 in 1875 and then to 16 (what it is now) in 1885. New Hampshire is in the usa, no?
Cam C yeah it is
Alice is going to need some serious therapy
"Now without further ado, Alice's adventures in wonderland" *ad plays*
fucking midrolls XD
Correction ~ “ado” (I think it might be the autocorrect on your keyboard tho - happens a lot with my typing as well) 😘
I was so fucked up by it but couldn’t even stay mad because the timing couldn’t have been more impeccable.
Same
SilverStream that happened to me too!!
Okay but can we look for Alice's other eyebrow? It disappeared on the thumbnail
Milki Teaaa lmao I didn’t even notice that wtf
@@line7596 That was the first thing i saw
No joke, I just saw a video with a woman with just one eyebrow after reading your comment xD
Witch of Despair { No hope, no life } your FBI agent is quick
@@d.jazelle XD
Nobody just makes a nonsense book. People create art based on their life experiences, even if it's fiction.
I disagree.
Many artists deliberately set out to make nonsense.
Just as an appropriate example, the song "I Am the Walrus."
Lennon was frustrated by everyone dissecting Beatles' song lyrics, so he set out to make something impossible to decipher.
Reportedly saying upon completion, "let em sort this one out."
😄
Joel Bizzell wouldnt that Lennon song have come from his life experiences then? As you say, he created it as a direct response to his experiences with people over-analyzing his music.
no the author actually wrote this book for a child bc he was a pedophile and wanted to groom her
Usually if they do make nonsense, it's either due to drugs, a mental breakdown, arrogance (thinking that people will still like your writing if you write whatever, whether or not it makes sense), as a prank, or out of desperation for new ideas.
ImLissy wait, was he really a pedophile
" ’Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe."
I can resit the entire poem
"Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.
“Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!”
He took his vorpal sword in hand;
Long time the manxome foe he sought-
So rested he by the Tumtum tree
And stood awhile in thought.
And, as in uffish thought he stood,
The Jabberwock, with eyes of flame,
Came whiffling through the tulgey wood,
And burbled as it came!
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back.
“And hast thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!”
He chortled in his joy.
’Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe."
"I'm afraid I can't explain myself, sir. Because I am not myself, you see?"
I do Knot 🎀 ➰....C!!!!!!
"We're all mad here"
I have the Cheshire cat hoodie that says that lol
Actually It's "Most Everyone's Mad Here!"
@@wingellhymer9139Disney film :
"If I were looking for a white rabbit, I'd ask the Mad Hatter."
Alice: The Mad Hatter? Oh, no no no...
"Or, you could ask the March Hare, in that direction."
Alice: Oh, thank you. I think I'll see him...
"Of course, he's mad, too."
Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
"Oh, you can't help that. Most everyone's mad here." (Starts to disappear) "You may have noticed that I'm not all there myself."
In the novel, it goes:
"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."
We all float down here
Oh wait, wrong movie.
Blobbert Mcblob Um...
"why would a grown man be friends with a little girl" immediately thought of your peter pan video sdhfhjsgf
lmao i just watched that video so same😪
Reminds me of Michael Jackson too. But we see what he was accused of. Smh
@@phglam You heard Mortal Man by Kendrick Lamar?
Nothing weird happened with the little girls.....
Literally next sentence:
He took nude photos of their children
But don't forget the context people!
Jeff Oliver pedophilia was and is very common for Europeans. It dates back to the Greeks and Pederasty. We like to pretend now that these relationships were innocent, but adult child sexual relations were very common and just not spoken about. Just like incest in Europe. The lord of the manor was given the right of taken the virginity of everyone in his household to include his daughters. After coming in contact with people in places where these practices were taboo and seen as immoral, Europeans adapted.
Jeff Oliver It doesn’t matter what year it was. A grown man hanging with little girls taking naked pictures of them is a pedophile. It’s never been okay . The only people who thinks it is are pedophiles and their enablers.
@Jeff Oliver
Put nude children on greeting cards..... 🙄🙄🙄🤬🤬🤬🤬😡😡 Some body call 9 11 cps or What ever. Nasty
@Need Gore Did you fucking ignore what he explained about nude children in Victorian era?
@@misseses9091 THAT'S A BIG FUCKING STRETCH YIKES.
Is it just me but the scene with the *Walrus and the oysters* scared the living shit out of me when i was little... 😅
Omg yes
The science with the lizard always scared me lol idk why but I love the movie soo much jus that one character lol
Same
Me too
*he frikin ate her babies*
Man the Victorian Era was weird..
Opium. That is all
Do you really think the present era is any less weird?
Eric Lord yes, I definitely believe this era is less weird. If you honestly believe that our era and the Victorian era are comparable or similar in any ways you’re a whole clown
Ikr?
Today is weird.
When I was five, I remember hearing the story of Alice in Wonderland read on TV by a local kindergarten teacher. It was chapter by chapter. I didn't understand a lot of it. It was only some years later when I read the actual book(along with great footnotes)that I fully appreciated the stories and the author. When I was nine I saw the Disney movie...and thought it had left too much out. (That's Disney for ya!)
Alice's sister before death wrote a letter basically saying that he was a pedophile. Alice was too young even at that time.
No she didn't. She wrote that he was in love with HER. he was in love with the older Sister, not Just Alice.
@@MrParkerman6 which makes him a pedophile.
@@malkay7927 sounds like justifying pedophelia... he took naked photos of children, went on dates with little girls, and was “in love” with little girls. You can blame it on the culture of the time, but that doesn’t make it ok. Just because something was commonly accepted at a certain time period, doesn’t make it ok. For example, slavery was never ok, no matter how many times it happened and continues to happen. Little girls shouldn’t marry old men. Children shouldn’t be an obsession of old men. Pedophelia is never ok.
Stop justifying it. Accept that historically many people who did great things with their lives (became well known authors, politicians, artists, etc.) were also pedophiles. Then, decide to do better for the next generation of kids, and move on.
@@nancymariahp you misunderstood and yes I agree with everything being said. But what I was pointing out was that he would not have known it was wrong because it was the societal norm. Not that I think it was right. I also just took it down because I don't want an argument over something as dumb as adding information without saying whether I agreed or not and then being attacked. Back then they were raised a certain way and had to follow that or they would face consequences for being different. That's all I was saying.
Leave it to today’s people to try to cancel niggas from the 1800s. Just 200 years before that, people got married at 15 to people who were already adults. And 200 years before that, Kings and Queens (basically president and supreme leaders) would give their 13-16 year old to a prince or even a king to be married for a unity kingdoms.
“Alice started crying, something that children and myself are known to do...” 😝😝😝😂😂
😂🤣😂
😂😂😜😭
I literally forgot this was supposed to come out today. Thank god for UA-cam notifications im ready
Me too dude/dudette!
bigbo - dude/dudette?? 😅 i mean im cool with it
I'm a Virgo ♍
I'm Virgo to! ♍ September 7,2007!!
@@aubrieevans7508 hello love!!!!!! ♍💛
It's sick to think what people did to children. it's still happening it's a sickness
SAME! its so ridiculous,i understand that this was normal back then, but why take NUDE pictures of the kids? makes me feel sick
Living Woman Ministries no country accepts it! 🤦🏻♀️ Such ignorance! These are individuals, found the world over! Females as well as males. And many of these criminal acts take place within the family homes of the victims. And Africa, Switzerland, China....heck....every country on this planet has an issue with pedophiles! This not wanting to believe they are not accepted in your country but are elsewhere is somewhat naive. They travel to carry out their crimes, also. From every background, level of education, upbringing, career path, etc.
Marquis De Lafayette rubbish! Not every single person living in ‘A’ country is in acceptance of such a thing. That is gross ignorance to imply that of a peoples. There are pedos high up who hide it, and this is not unique to a country or four, this is worldwide. These sick individuals will prey on the poorest, the most vulnerable youngsters in society-even parents sell their kids to live with older people who then marry them, at times, and then rape them as children. These people are found in every part of society and like any other illegal behaviour, is shared among a type! Sick! They need children, have them or whoever can get access to them. With the less hassle the better. That’s on a grand scale a more international, level. Then you get those individuals who prey on young family members. It doesn’t matter on what level, the fact is children are being horribly, brutally abused and not EVERY country or those in it accept that! You need to read up more on the subject. It’s a massive worldwide issue because it’s present everywhere. There are forces who do bust these sex slave markets and it’s rife from poor way up to rich. The more you read the more you learn about this. Alas, I have worked with child sex abuse victims. I see the reality of it, and who is affected and hurt. And these have been young children up to young adults-18/19. All nationalities. Some have escaped from their home countries to live with family based on where they have relocated to.
Marquis De Lafayette it’s not collective. The only people who will accept it and allow it are the pedophiles themselves. Not entire nations. And the frightening thing is they go to any lengths to get what they want, they help each other get what they want. So a poor man will be friends with a rich man because they have that revolting connection. 🤢 It makes you go cold and your stomach goes into knots realising what goes on where.
Marquis De Lafayette but you are implying that some countries don’t accept it at all, so you are still suggesting that there are countries where it isn’t an issue, or that people from that country in particular allow it as in general. They are Everywhere and in Every country and there are people in every country from all across the board who don’t accept it and want them locked up. For life.
No one.
Literally no one.
In the thumbnail, Alice has only one eye brow. The left eye brow is missing.
You are right O.O
Why did you tell me this😩
I just found this channel a week ago and i have been here ever since
I can never get tired of these vids
Welcome to the dark side of everything and everyone.
Bounty Hunter Kakuzu Right? Not that they’re ever boring, but they’re great to fall asleep to. A sort of messed-up - but still comforting - bedtime story.
Yo kak where's my money
I found him in
Jan 2018
Same!!
when I first found your channel, I thought it was gonna be like the others who create super fake deep and gritty theories about children stories and spin fake facts to make it all more interesting without doing any actual research. Not only am I glad I was wrong, but I also stop everything when a new video comes out! Great work dude!
Yes! I thought the same but I was kind bored and gave it a try because the thumbnail for the flute player was cool - happy surprise!
Same honestly! I just found this channel today and I'm so glad it's not a fake theory channel!
Yeah instead it's just hin justifying real pedophilia, good content
I’ve been told that when I was born in the hospital, and my mum was asleep, my dad read Alice in Wonderland to me. I have been obsessed with it for as long as I can remember.
Today I'm going to talk about Lewis Carroll and his relationship with alice little
FBI OPEN UP!
Hahahaha lol
*Alice Liddle, dumbass. Still pronounced The Same Way, though.
I do hope you know that relationship in this context means how the two people are associated, if they are friends, related, or acquaintances.
@@MrParkerman6 Hey bud? It’s actually Alice Liddell, *cough* dumbass!! You really out here calling someone stupid for what, making a mistake that oh wait, you also made:/ .
.....Still pronounced the same way though!!! Also why did you capitalize the T, S, and W?
@@illegalmaknae550 Naked…photos…not…okay…PERIOD.
Jon its her older sister not her mother 😂
Lunarcats 2323
I right away went Older sister LOL
Thank you!!
i was huh? ant it her sister? (im not a fan of the cartoon one)
@Lunarcats 2323 could the cartoon have made the older female character Alice's mother. I never saw the cartoon , but did read the book and in it Alice is with her sister.
@@PatriciaPerkowski its possible but from what ive heard it is her older sister in all the adaptations
Messed up origins of Hansel and Gretel next?
Ohh that would be a good one
i would like to see that one as well.
YES
There's gonna be several episodes of Alice, so I'm not sure others will be coming out until it's over
Big yes to this
"Why else would a grown man be friends with a little girl?"
Johnny Bravo and Wreck it Ralph have entered the chat
The king from the Disney version is adorable😅 It shows the queen really cares about her husband and that the king cares about his wife.
8:53 "She's reading a book without pictures or words"
...Well that's quite a talent.
Braille
No it was pictures and conversations. These 😸😸😸 and these "... ..."
One needs to remember that he took nude photos of Alice's older sister even after she was too old to fall under the social norm, and that Alice's mother barred him from seeing any of the girls later on. Alice's family says that although the mother was never explicit with other family members regarding all the reasons, part was said to be the inappropriate photos and had found him trying to court the oldest sister in secret over the years, even before she was old enough to be considered an adult.
You are absolutely right im glad you put that in the comment section
@Ivore Surkuri there's a documentary called "the secret world of lewis carrol" here on yt that elaborates on his questionable relationships with kids and that photo
There are many things pointing at the possibility that he (at least in the case of the liddells) had inappropriate thoughts about kids: there was this sudden ban from socialising with the liddell kids by their mom, ripped out diary pages of the days their fall-out happened and a questionable naked photo (of the girl who is presumably Alice's older sister) whose edges were cut to erase the number and the signature of the maker of that photo
These things appear not to be widely known(?) though since most of his autobiographers are always quick to defend him
I don't care if the pictures of the younger ones were socially acceptable or not, they were just as wrong and all these people defending it need to be shown how it feels to be an abused child
@@thatcoffee yes, I watched that documentary. Very good and very troubling.
What likely caused the falling out was not him being skeevy with Alice or courting anyone "in secret" but more likely him actually expressing interest in marrying Ina (who would have been 13/14 at the time and ready for courtship) and her mother basically saying my daughter will not be marrying a lowly professor. Back then, marrying out of your class was more of a taboo then photographing young girls naked or hanging out with a 10 year old all day.
How can you say he NEVER acted on his attraction to children? This sounds like typical grooming behavior, and only in recent years has pedophilia been more openly talked about. Also, even today many victims feel conflicted and don’t say anything bad about their abuser. And what caused the rift between him and Alice’s family?
Who knows
you know he did
Yeah I also thought that was an absurd statement to make. How could anyone no matter their expertise regarding Dodgson say "he never once acted on (harmful intentions)"? I mean maybe he was just a sweet shy weirdo who liked telling tales to kids, but many recorded accounts show his relationships with young girls to be inappropriate at best.
As a literature student, while studying Alice, I was told by my teachers that Alice was even sent a marriage proposal by Lewis Caroll.
@Azuri e what?
“Why would a grown man be friends with a little girl”
Big Ed: 👁👄👁
Everyone did in the 1800s. Little girls were thought to represent Innocence and Intelligence and Ideology.
I thought it was her elder sister in the movie not her mother.
It is her elder sister. There is nothing in the Disney movie saying it is the mother. The scene is very truthfull to the book in overall. However, they never adress their relation at all in the scene. So it opens up for missconceptions if you never red the book.
Creativa Artly it was her sister he just didn’t know
Creativa Artly Yeah, I remember Alice calling her by her name, not mother.
Yes , that’s right . I remember, because I remember when we were discussing the book in English class we also learned about the time period of the author. In this time of history it was still deemed inappropriate to call your mother by her name. It’s definitely her elder sister !! ( I remember a lot about the movie, she called her by “ name “ . Although for the life of me I couldn’t tell you what her sister’s name was ...!!! )
@@ErikDaVinci in the end credits it says Alice's sister.
isnt alice in wonderland already messed up
I hope it's messed up or we have smoked the wrong thing.
What's messed up about it? It's a nonsense story for children. Like a story kids would make up as they played with thier toys.
@Alira Cohen so you didn't have villains out to kill the hero when you played with toys?
Yeah , I know, right? The craziest amount of nonsensical stuff. I think I remember going over this novel in English Literature class in High School. I love Literary stuff . Being on the Lit Magazine staff was amazing.
Lmao I never thought it was as messed up as everyone thought. oH iTs AbOuT dRuGs!1!!1 um no sweaty it’s not. Literally about stuff that don’t make sense
Lewis was a mathematician, when people break it down that way, it makes the most sense to me. There is a whole book about decoding the book lol. I love to hear takes on this movie and the book. It’s my favorite Disney movie/book that I still watch for comfort as an adult. My friend bought me an Alice in wonderland book from a thrift store only to discover it is worth several hundred dollars, I’ll never give it up!
"by the time she finishes her sick burn" lmao
Last summer I read "Alice in Wonderland" and "Through the looking glass" they both made no sense! I had to reread "Through the Looking Glass" to try to make sense of it..... it still didn't even make sense XD
It's not meant to because she dreamed it
it's not made to make sense, and that's what makes it great
@Yes Sir! what? the books are amazing and such classics
@@eleven-hopper different tastes for different people. Just because it's classic doesn't necessarily mean it's objectively good. Creative for sure, absolutely memorable, but tastes always vary
@@tuckinatorinator787 i know. I was just saying that even if you think it's garbage, you should respect it for the book it is and the people that like it
Just because it wasn't considered unusual doesn't mean it's not messed up 😲
the point is that it was a different time. We judge it harshly because that’s not how we live now but morality shifts as humans evolve and morality is subjective, not objective.
@Ghost_Troupe Indeed! Wrong is wrong. I don't care what era it occurred in.
@@philiphoyle true man, in my country it is completely unacceptable for a 13 year old to be having sex in any way or even a boyfriend/girlfriend
this whole thread made me uncomfortable. asserting an objective morality is something i still can't agree with, but i do still feel it's so far passed bad in the general sense of established societal morality that arguing for a superlative essence of morality has merit. i think there was a philosophy tube episode on this. in the context of left and right in the usa, there are differences in what they consider to be objective morality, like gay marriage or abortion.
but this whole thread made me really uncomfortable. it should be obvious that hurting kids is wrong.
idk
i loved this book so much too and now i'm sad
The point is that it was not considered sexual, it wasn't a highly sexualized time where everything is looked at in salacious terms. Naked children were considered innocent and cherubic, not objects of sexual desire.
"Let's head in the rabbit hole."
Ad for firehouse subs pop up immediately for me.
"WHAT!"
I have to say I am very impressed with your intelligence and articulation. You don't talk like the stereotypical gen z or millennial. You sound like you could have been gen x. I enjoy your explanations greatly.
Er, actually, the woman giving Alice her history lesson is her sister. The voice actor is titled as such in the credits.
Alice doesn't land on her head in the movie, she lands upside-down with her feet hooked over a bar.
Er could u do better....
👌👌
The pic of him kissing little Alice, would undermine any doubt of his feelings toward her. That wasn't obvious?
Our times are far more obsessed w sex. Chaste kisses were common then.
@@Brianbeesandbikes no that's not even true. Victorians were so obsessed with sex they hid piano and table legs under skirts. Chaste kisses also weren't between adult men and female children on the mouth. You people have absolutely lost it.
Looked to me like Alice was kissing him... an innocent thing a child would do
JUST STOP
@@christinash2235 wait but dont many adults and children share a quick kiss in todays society? I know plenty parents do it, and I assume it wouldnt be weird for close family friends to do so as well... Some places just dont find it sexual or romantic in any way.
He had 10 brothers and sisters that he was close to. I think he missed them and had social inhibitions with adults. The children photos were a Victorian thing showing innocence and others were doing exactly the same.
"every thing's got a moral, if only you can find it"
....and a very good Moral... If you happen to be an Oyster!!!!
I can actually understand this point on the befriending children thing a lot. I’m friends with many school children since I work in a supermarket and often at the time when they finish school. I receive daily hugs, excited renditions of their days and ‘I love you!’ From other people’s children. Due to horrible people in the world I jump through hoops to make sure the parents are always present and aware every step of the way, but I can imagine when simpler times would have made the rest completely normal. Kids are adorable! And they’re view on the world is wonderful and kind of reminds me why life is precious.
So early there were no ads
I just found you're channel and its really awesome. I love learning origin stories and you tell them beautifully.
I love the Alice books so much I’m in the process of having a full sleeve tattoo of Alice things done. Also, my brother did a speech at my wedding and ended it with a quote from through the looking glass.
I bloody love Alice.
I ALSO have "Alice In Wonderland" theme sleeve tats. 🖤🍄🌹💙
My thigh is designated to Alice in wonderland tattoos as well! (Disney movie version)
"And again, she has an emotional break down of how much she pity her situation"
LOL ME
THE FACT THAT ALICE IS YOUR ICON
Literally what I was going to say.
XD SHE LOST HER EYEBROW!!! look at the thumbnail
It was driving me crazy. Every time I scroll past and it's not there...*eye twitch intensified*
Someone shaved it off while she was dreaming about Wonderland, and the thumbnail shows her first look in the mirror when she wakes up.
@@tsopmocful1958 XD TRUE😁!!!
I'll never unsee that
I just realized that that's hilarious!
"If he had bad intentions he never once acted on them"
*five seconds later*
"He once asked the parents of the kids if he could take nude photos of their children"
0.0
🤷♂️
I do think something did happen between Alice, & him. Because he had a falling out, with Alice, & the family. They did become friends again, but not as close. This came from historians, discussing it, on a documentary.
i just wanted to let you know that this was recommended to me under 'electro music' due to the background music you use
have a nice day
bupple jum the porn music
I just watched a documentary on Lewis Carroll, and you show just as much, (if not more), research for this video. Looking forward to the next 3! Great job 👍🏻
I seriously love how you bring the people who watches this into other places. I'm 34 years old and have read real books in the past. I love you have done a in depth talk about a "movie' compared to the book
I love the way Jon handles the relationship between Alice and the author. He acknowledges it’s weird now, but was part of the times and his explanation is just impartial enough
8:52 "... reading a book without pictures or words"....I'm confused 🤔
He meant a book without pictures or conversations 😄 (i.e., it's a boring history book rather than a story)
@@kumada84 ahh 💡 thanks
Her sister is probably blind and is reading braille
Or math perhaps?
Do a chicken little messed up origin
Ok I don’t know why but whenever the scene with the flowers and butterflies would come on I would pause the movie, run to the living room and demand my dad made me butter bread
Not toast, bread with butter
And to this day I still don’t know why I do it
2:33 THIS SCENE
Lol I had to have plain bread myself for the movie
First time running across 1 of your videos, but i find you to be very entertaining and informative . Ive just subscribed and felt good doing it
This movie is literally my childhood
This book sounds like all my dreams morphed into one big nightmare
Great and brave take on some of the subjects. Grats
I love these old stories, fairy tales and fables. Takes me back to my youth which is a long way back..
For those interested in an actual very similar movie version of the book, I STRONGLY recommend the 1999 version. This is overall pretty accurate to the book, has a lot of great quotes in it (both from and not from the book), and is filled with famous British actors (for example the guy who played Hagrid from Harry Potter plays one of the Tweedles) :)
Exactly :D
I liked this movie as a kid 👍
But gee i didn't know one of the tweedles was played by the actor who played Hagrid 😅
Wait I think I watched that version. Gene Wilder was the Mock Turtle and Whoopi Goldberg was the Cheshire Cat. Edit: just checked it. I did watch that movie it also had Christopher Lloyd and Miranda Richardson as the White Knight and the Queen of Hearts respectfully.
It was my favorite movie growing up!
Every Disney Story Has a Wicked Origin, This Should Be a Red Flag To Y’all
It's not Disney.
Laura M It Is Actually... Look It Up
@@javivizzy Disney took it as a movie way after it was written
Laura M That’s What I Said, Every Disney Story Has a Wicked Origin... 🤦🏻 Learn How To Read
Disney actually took the book literally. History is bad now a days. .. But you tool perspective from Disney and not the Victorian writer himself.
The info in this video amazing. Great job.
Oh I believe he touched the kids. What type of man would stay at a cabin with a 15 year old🤦🏽♀️🙆🏾♀️😡😠
I know right? Just because none of the girls spoke ill of him didn't mean he didn't do the naughty, they probably just thought it was normal. Women and children were more subdued back then and taught to always be nice and polite and never to defy or speak ill of a grown up/man.
Girls were considered women as soon as They had Their période in those days.
It’s because in the Victorian days just like the Renaissance people still had a short life span (for example why Romeo and Juliet were so eager to get married) so getting married young, VERY YOUNG and having sexual interests with younger “women” was ideal... it’s honestly no justification but it was the truth back then🤢
jade biologically, yes. But some lil girls have their periods at 8. 8 year olds can’t consent anyways. They don’t understand these things. It doesn’t matter when you have your period, you have to be mentally ready. Being a woman does mean just having periods or having breasts
@@aikaradise you just answer yourself, biologically yes you are ready to reproduce , humans haven't evolve that much physically ,we just evolved our form of thinking, you have to think that back in those days science was not what it's today ,so you can't think like those who lived on that time ,is almost impossible for a person of this era to have any sympathy to the way people of that era lived or their ideas
One of my teachers made us read the book once and it was the most confusing thing ever
Popcorn reading Alice in Wonderland was the most difficult fucking thing in High school, I swear
@@mint5438
I read it in like the 6th grade, it was really weird to me. It didnt seem to have a main point, as if he just..Wrote stuff down on paper like wtf-
Bruh at least you didn’t have to read narnia, that shi was boring
Isn't that suppose to her sister, not mother?
Bomber Blurr Yes, he should reference the actual book for
accuracy.
Kathy Coleman 8:50
Kalika Fay watch the whole thing before you make your opinions
Imagine being Alice's sisters and seeing her as the protagonist of the story, while you are represented by two birds who only appear in one chapter.
Damn Alice sitting in that chair on the left of the thumbnail. Reminds me of Tetsuo’s throne in Akira
*wait Disney Alice is missing an eyebrow in the thumbnail*
😱
Totally recommend reading Alice in Wonderland & Alice through the looking glass. The writing style is very interesting, and witty characters are great.
*Alice's Adventures in Wonderland.
*Through The Looking Glass and What Alice Found There.
It's not, both those movies suck
@@cameussmith They are talking about the books dummy dum dum
@@arielpabon4462 No they were talking about the shitty live action movies dummy dumm dum.
@@cameussmith Read the comments again lol
I love how the mouse or rat gets mad at her for bringing up cats and dogs. But is completely fine having an owl as a friend. 🤨
I am a new subscriber and am absolutely blown away by all of the info on Alice in wonderland. WOW! THANK YOU FOR THIS!
That background music had me feeling some kind of way.
eyes open....heads up...
That “mother” was her sister
Correct, though she looks much older!
Thank you! I love all your videos 😊
I didn’t know this, but that’s actually Alice’s older sister, I always thought it was her tutor
Lsd is a powerful drug.
Zane Yanas meth is a powerful drug
Actually lsd wasn't synthesized till 1950s
Shrooms are though
He actually was high writing the book he was on opium or laudanum.
How do you know lsd wasn’t available then just because it was Synthesized in the 1950s doesn’t mean people weren’t doing stuff with Ergot before then
“Her sister is sitting nearby reading a book without pictures or words.”
what kind of mf book doesn’t have any pictures or *WORDS* in it!
I was looking for someone else to acknowledge this!
Blind, reading braille
A solely numerical book.. A phone book perhaps? Though it won't coincide with the period because phone books were invented in 1878 apparently.
rainy day but wouldn’t a diary have words in it??
Improvised Chaos OOOO THATS SMART
I did a psychology project on this book/movie and this video really helped
I love videos like these!
Has anyone else noticed the similarities between Alice in wonderland and the matrix?
It's almost like the matrix is a reverse version. Where neo begins in wonderland and leaves to the real world.
Think about it.
He follows a white rabbit (the tattoo) to the club. Where he meets trinity who in turn leads him to morpheus. Morpheus gives him the pill, he then has an awakening, falls down a long disposal tube (the rabbit hole) into a different world.
Even the characters on the neberkaneza (maybe mispelt) resemble the characters in wonderland.
mad hatter, white rabbit, tweedledumb, tweedledee, the mouse, March hare, caterpillar, the Cheshire cat. 8 characters that mentor Alice.
Morpheus, trinity, tank, dozer, mouse, switch, apoc, cypher, switch 8 characters that mentor neo.
Dozer and tank are twins like the twins in Alice.
Mouse is...Mouse
Morpheus could be the mad hatter,
Switch the white rabbit,
Trinity the hare (fast)
Mouse....Mouse
Cyper the Cheshire cat
Apoc the caterpillar maybe....
Then they have the breakfast, throat scenes like the tea party.
The whole thing of awakening at the end, neo dies then awakens after being cornered.
Running from the agents at the end...
The trial of Alice /interrogation of morpheus.
I don't know its seems like there's alot of links between the two stories.
Even morpheus talks about "you've been living in a dream world" etc
Holy shizzle your right
Bring out the tin foil hat. Joking. You’re right a lot of similarities.
Holy crap
There is a channel on UA-cam called, "Children of Its Real Out Here," and he says all Hollywood movies are the same but we just don't realize it. Initially I didn't believe him. However, In his videos he does have the same breakdown of every movie he reviews.
Congratulations, it only took you a couple of years to realize that???
There is evidence to suggest Lewis Carroll's relationship with the children in Alice's family wasn't okay even within the perspective of the time. There's no absolute proof, but there's enough to raise doubt. People don't want to believe it, so many people, like in this video, try to push their opinion on others. Another look from the perspective of the time would suggest if something bad did happen, it wouldn't have gotten reported as the victim would have suffered more and even today children don't often speak up about abuse.
The fact other people who had relationships with Carroll in their childhood and state they didn't have any problem isn't relevant at all as proof he never acted inappropriately. That's a bad argument too frequently used. Just because a child doesn't knock every single kid down on the playground isn't proof he didn't find one little weird kid to knock down when no one was looking. Most people who do bad things don't do them 100% of the time, and probably don't do them more often than they do.
I believe it very likely happened he took advantage of at least one young girl, possibly Alice's sister if not her. It saddens me as it lessens one of favorite authors, but just because I don't want to believe it, doesn't skew my view of the evidence I've read and seen explored in news reports.
It is sad but people need to separate the art from the artist. I can't believe how many people excuse an obvious problem, cause they love someone's work.
I've researched this history a lot because the origin and Carroll's relationship with Alice fascinates me and if I remember correctly, there's speculation that something bad between him and Alice did happen because at one point her mother burned all of the letters he'd sent Alice and they were forbidden from communicating.
I'd say his full frontal nude of Irina (Ina) Liddell age 14 is proof. It's in a French art museum & on Google. . There's another 10yr old full frontal too. There's no way he'd have been given parental consent for that. Child nudes were only acceptable under puberty, semi covered or posed so sexual parts are covered. That was all that was acceptable as art back then, with no exceptions
DAMMMN!! DON'T NEED TO WRITE A FRIKIN ESSAY OF THE VIDEO!
@BTIsaac I don't think it's okay to be an adult with the attraction to teens, since they're still minors.
wow dude, your research is very thorough.
well done.
Love your work bro.
it's her sister in the film, too... it's in the credits somewhere; that's how the voice actress is credited
This is awesome I love your channel
BRO I LOVE YOUR CHANNEL I FEEL LIKE IVE EXHAUSTED ALL CONTENT WORTH WATCHING UNTIL TODAY THANKYOU SO MUCH.
SRY MY KYBRD IS STUCK ON CAPS