Religion & Magic: Part 1 - The Comet (spoilers)
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- Опубліковано 5 лют 2025
- History of Westeros' series on Religion & Magic kicks off with the great comet, a sign interpreted by many and seen by all.
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Was it sent by the gods or is it a sign that magic and dragons have returned? Whatever the meaning, there will be blood and fire. Ashaya and Aziz give an overview of what to expect in the series while asking a bunch of tough questions. Particular attention is paid to parallels between various supernatural elements found throughout the books.
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Khal Drogo wasn't a vegetable atcually; he went where people led him, he ate when given food, and he drinks water when you give it to him but he never did these things himself. There's a theory by Yolkboy on Westoros.org that Mirri forced the horse that she killed to warg into Khal Drogo's mind with her old gods knife that had glyphs not even Dany recognized(She should know Valyrian glyphs) and she sees a Dany sees a wolf dancing a symbol of the old gods... its a cool theory because he think the same thing will be done to Jon Via Ghost but by Melissandre, but this time since Jon is also in Ghosts mind it wont be like Khal who just got the horse mind...
Does that mean Drogo's mind was in the horse?
Fuzzy Dunlop Possibly, but I doubt it, since the horse was purely sacrificial. That is, it was an entity being offered to engender the spell, not one receiving the spell.
@@fuzzydunlop7928Great handle lmao
Love your videos! ASoIaF is one of those rare series that even when I'm not reading through the books, I can't help but keep thinking about it and trying to connect dots between the story. Keep it up guys!
Just watched through all of these videos, can't wait for the next one! Inspired me to reread the series with all of this knew knowledge.
Ser Davos is a noble. He was given a keep and lands by Stannis for smuggling in food during the Siege of Storm's End. So despite being born the lowest of the low, he now has noble blood - like Mance Rayder has King's blood, despite being born lowborn.
You guys are so awesome to listen to. All of this is so inspiring. Im always saying I want to do my own vids and theory stuff but I never sit down and work on it. Great ideas here.
Aziz, I absolutely loved your analogy with the gasoline and various gas stations. It was... beautiful.
You have a Sumerian Flood Myth, The Babylonian Epic of Gilgamesh, the Greek "Ogygian flood", and the Deucalion legend, plus many others including a Norse one, Finnish, one from Ireland, the Hopi tribe, the Indian myth of Matsya, the Chinese Gun-Yu myth ... quite amazing really that you can find a form of the flood myth from virtually every continent and many of the islands in the Pacific.
Amazing? Not really, considering how much water levels rose at the end if the ice age. Inhabited areas all over the world were flooded.
raven firestone37 It was more a reference that so many of the myths survived.
Thanks for doing these podcasts! I didn't know how much I missed in these books until I started listening to AA Podcast insight. :) By far the best Game of Thrones podcast out there. I'm excited to hear what you guys pull together for the Religion podcasts.
Also, can't wait to hear an AA podcast of the History of Westeros and Valyria podcast.
Insightful, articulate, and well structured. Thanks guys.
I've been looking forward to this series for a while... thanks for all your insights guys, it's always fun to geek out on aSoIaF with y'all
loved your analogy comparing magic to gas.....Brilliant and I'm pinching it
Watching this for the first time 9 years old you guys look so young in this video!
That is definitely in the "missed it" category. Now I have to sit and think about the meaning of that line for a while...
Hey Team, I really enjoy watching and learning from you guys and hope there will be more to come. George R.R Martin was down here in New Zealand last week, I'm hopeing he may have got some work on the next book done or maybe found some inspiration. Keep up the good work.
Yeah, the comets main purpose imo is to show how different people can view the same thing and see it differently. That's one of the central themes of the series. It's at the beginning of the second book to help remind the reader that this is not the typical good vs evil fantasy story.
You probably saw that we went into more detail with that topic, but it will be a major topic given it's own episode a bit later.
Always wondered if the comet was the source of magic, which would explain why magic is coming back now, right when the comet does.
We do too. George makes it unclear which came first... did the magic return because of the comet? Or is the comet a sign that magic has returned?
I know my reply is really late but I've wondered that to. Or maybe magic always exists only weaker and the arrival of the comet makes it much stronger and more effective much like Sozin's comet in Avatar : The last airbender
Did the return of the dragons herald the return of magic? Are there any clear examples in westorosi history where magic was shown to be strengthened in the company of dragons (early targaryen history)
White Walkers were already stirring before the comet appears. I think Rhaegar's birth at Summerhall brought back magic. It was a giant funeral pyre, many times bigger than Dany's with dragon eggs and plenty of blood offered. And all that came out was Rhaegar. We really need the Dunk N Egg series to wrap up.
@@williamhermann6635 It's possible I suppose, but there's no indication that Rhaegar was special in any way beyond the norm for a Targaryen, so I doubt it. As far as the Walkers, we know when that happened roughly, but we have no idea how long that comet has been coming around. It's entirely plausible it was there for their birth and played a key role therein. Either way, it's fun to think about.
Dunno if you're saving this comet detail for an Azor Ahai episode (or maybe you missed it altogether) but the earliest mention of the comet might actually be in Eddard's fever dream about the Tower of Joy.
"A storm of rose petals blew across a 'blood-streaked' sky, as blue as the eyes of death."
We have that exact thing planned as a part of the Religion & Magic series! Thinking of calling it "Saviors" or something along those lines.
Thanks, we'll keep them coming.
There was an earlier time when the Comet appeared.
The Red Comet appeared in the Year of the False Spring when Aegon was conceived.
I'm really interested in how the millitary orders of the different faiths will play a part in the future of the series, such as the warriors sons and the fiery hand.
Also on the theme of magic - in many fantasy settings magic is magic it is just the source of the power is divine or arcane. Just as a motor car engine is an engine regardless of whether the fuel is diesel or petrol.
George said after the series is over, he wants to write about Westeros again. Maybe he'll write about Valyria and the houses of it.
Bran seems to be going beyond what the 3 Eyed Crow says is possible, which indicates Bran is VERY powerful, or perhaps it is because magic is on the rise.
Good call on the double rebirth for Theon, I had never really thought about him that way. At the end of aDwD he seems to have been re-re-born as Theon again, as he seems to have "re-learned" his own name.
...and what about the dif types of reanimation: Lady Dark, Drowned, Rhllor, Cold Hand, Wights, etc... ok gonna listen to more. Glad I found you two :)
We'll probably discuss Coldhands when we discuss resurrections and undead, etc.
@ 10:40 Full on boob stare! Hahaha!
near the beginning of clash Doreah tells Daenerys about a myth in which there used to be two moons, but they were actually dragon eggs. She then said that the second moon/egg burst open long ago and that thousands of dragons came out, which is where dragons originated. I think It's possible that the myth had been changed over the millenia and that the moon had actually been a comet similar to the one that was currently in the sky. The first comet could have brought magic into the world the first time, and that is what the second comet is doing now. im not saying that dragons litterally came from the comet, but if dragons were first seen when the comet appeared, people would have filled in the gaps. Its a possibility.
I love your analysis guys... when's the next one coming?
About a day or two!
I always thought about Melissandre as a "multiclass character", being a Red Priest and a Shadowbinder. She's the only one so far that have spoken of shadows as servants of light, instead of darkness.
My guess is that she needed the glamour ability (she's old, deformed or trying to hide her identity) and then rationalized that it must have been the will of R'hllor, or else she wouldn't be able to do shadow magic.
Middle-Earth. Middle-aged. A flaming rock in the sky.
Great work guys Love your podcasts keep up the great work
It is Haley's comet, look up the tapestry for the battle of Hastings, This is a direct homage to the fact that Haley's comet appears in the sky during the battle.
Cant wait for the next video
good analogy.
Just finished watching your vids for the 3rd time - when's the next one coming!!
easily discounted as we have had a POV chapter from her and she honestly thinks in her internal monologue she is battling evil and Stanis is Azor Ahai. So we know 100% she is not an Other (and the Night Queen was an other) also the Night King was the Commander of the Watch
Was wondering what the worst end for ASOIAF would be. I decided it would be to end with a disembodied voice singing a narrative, as the camera pans into the air, and finally out of the blue eye of a giant (Macumber of course), then him laying down to sleep, beginning yet another long night (as his eyes being closed for the extended period of time would effectively block out the sun. Day and night? Blinking. Still trying to figure how summer/winter would tie into this.
Oh there's worse lol
Can't wait for the next one!
It's ready for recording, so expect it in a day or two!
I do like the fact that Patchface creeps her out.
Great topic, keep up the great work.
the comet signals the rebirth of azor ahai/promised prince. Ive read into a lot of speculation from the end of ADwD. i cant wait for the final book
Thank you for the advice, CavemanJesus, but I like fiddling with my hair :)
If the mercenary in Varys' riddle is anything like Bron, he'll probably kill all three men and take all their valuables.
I am looking forward to this series!
Weirwoods is next! We decided we needed an intro episode first.
The red comet could be... an Earthly spaceship, filled with Earthlings wielding machine guns.
Well the "kindly man" told Arya that the any faced god is that aspect of all the gods responsible for death - so its the stranger of the 7, R'hllor, the drowed god etc etc
Europeans hadn't discovered writing, aside from some basic runes. Western writing was discovered in Sumeria (Mesopotamia) and Egypt, and further developed into an alphabet system by the Hebrews and Canaanites (even to this day the name of the system is still Hebrew), then brought to Greece and from there to the rest of Europe by Phoenician traders.
That is true and we considered saying it a different way but in the end we left it as is because the Great Other isn't definitively a god, sort of like Satan isn't a "god" to Christians. But perhaps we should refer to the religion of the Drowned God as dualtheistic because the Storm God is certainly a god.
we'll likely clarify when we get into more detail on that particular topic.
I agree they could've done a better job. It's not like it has been onscreen a lot so they could have made those few short moments more spectacular.
You guys rock!
Deus Ex Arboris! love it.
Yes, I do think that. Bran will be able to reveal some of the central mysteries. I hope he doesn't reveal too many too quickly, we need to keep some things unknown. We have some theories on what destroyed Valyria that we will present during this theories, as well as some more thoughts on Dragons.
I was wondering if you guys have any thoughts on the religion of the Great Other and the dark magic around the Others existence? In previous podcasts, you've mentioned how you think there is a third dimension and hierarchy of the Others that are yet to be introduced in the series. The long night may have just been a religious struggle between clashing religions (The Great Other, Children of the Forest, First Men). We've seen this many times in our own history.
I'm not sure if Dany could be burnt as a sacrifice, I think she could be but the Red Priests think she's their savior so I doubt they would burn their savior!
I don't think the lack of dragons drove them crazy, as we have stories of crazy Targaryens from before, but maybe not. I'll have to look into that because I can't think of any examples. The craziest ones do seem to have come later: Baelor the Blessed, Aerys, Viserys.
That might be a good catch!
Could you do a video in which azor ashai and The prince that was promised are the main topics?
I mean it is a funny moment because Theon does seem almost like a 'foil character'.
I believe that there is something to Davos drowning.
When Melissandre reveals the glamour to Jon, she talks about Rattleshirt's bones making the glamour stronger..... in this she mentions a bag of finger bones.
However, Davos did lose the finger bones....... so maybe there is a 2nd Davos to be revealed??
Simply picking out words like "fingers" and attaching contexts does not reasonable analysis make. ^.^
Mell LITERALLY says "bag of finger bones" though. Your criticism is invalid. There are better criticisms to make of this, you chose poorly.
Was always wondering what you guys looked like as always listened to the podcasts. Ashaya is beautiful!! Always imagined she wouldn't be given the topic...
I had never considered that it was for Theon... we just laughed at him when he said that. But anything is possible with GRRM I suppose, we'll have to give that more thought.
Haha, we're troublemakers.
Well Dany didn't bleed at all, but Drogo could be considered a King.
We might do that at some point, yes.
Wow, I didn't think of that, maybe Stannis is the False Dragon that Dany must slay.
Lovely research. :).
I always like to think magic was a thing in the story but only for people with descendancy to older people from a different age of magic. Bran because of Bran the Builder, the dude built a magic wall, that when snow touched it, it melted(and yet now is made only of ice), hence wizard person. Varys to me seems like a descendant possibly of either Bloodraven, or Sheila Seastar, either or, both incredibly powerful in magic. And the cross between to me is magic is only becoming more prevelant now because the old gods, which are all the religions gods either as two gods or a few gods, are awakening. The great other is differently waking, because the Night King is actually making an aggressive move on the wall.
i think she hinted that "kings blood" is not necessarily related to literal kings . But people with the values of a king , strength,justice , honor things like that . So if that little theory is true davos would have kingsblood .
+Mr. Lopez 2681
I'm saying basically what your first point suggests
that someone simply saying "I'm king, I now have magic blood " wouldn't make any sense
that kings blood is the blood of a leader, a virtuous or strong person.
I don't think it's a trick with mances kid. she is keeping Mance alive for a reason other than " Mance is badass "
I think if anything. Kings blood could be largely associated with the blood of aegon the conqurer.
But not just any valyrian.
there are alot of valyrian families in westeros.
And house targaryen was not even a big deal in valyria. they were petty lords.
so I think there is more too it than just being targaryen.
And I think certain strong individuals have Kings blood regardless of ancestory
***** maybe you are right.
But the other issue I have with this version is that dragon riders in westeros are not strictly targaryen. House valerion has had numerous dragonriders and are of valyrian decent.
There is also evidence showing that you might not necessarily need targaryen blood to become a dragon rider. But let's assume that's untrue for a sec as it's not concrete.
House valerion are of old valyria. They have the typical targaryen look, though some have green eyes. They have numerous dragon riders in their history.
And if I remember correctly aegon and his sisterwives mother was of house valerion
They are lords of driftmark the island south of dragonstone.
And typically are a banner of the Lord of dragonstone.
Why wouldn't mellisandre just take from them?
im seeing alot of holes in it . But its interesting .
im sure all will be explained . I look forward to finding out.
The sun and the moon kissed and thousands of dragons poured forth... or something like that. I've always wondered if dragons were celestial in origin, and with the comet...
If you're still wondering about that, three years down the road, then check out www.lucifermeanslightbringer.com. He basically proves that there the Qarthean legend of two moons is accurate and that the dragons come from the arcane debris of the second moon that was destroyed by the comet when in eclipse formation.
thanx love your videos
Just a thought and I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere, but just want to hear your thoughts on whether the visions from Melisandre of "wake dragons out of stone" and Daneary's vision "great stone beast took wing breathing shadow fire" is foreshadowing a violent explosion of the active volcano Dragonmont on dragon stone?
At 22 minutes: I hadn't realized Arys Oakheart was that stupid. No wonder Arienne had such an easy time corrupting and fooling him.
Melisandre is in disguise, makes me think what is underneath is quite horrifying. She could very well be the Night Queen. The Stannis-Night King theory is seeming more viable to me.
thanks!
I really like the series. It seems, however, that you spend quite a bit of time telling us what you're going to talk about later rather than just talking. I prefer the parts where you're not advertising for future topics and just chatting about the series. Those parts a great.
Cyborg... good one :)
Any thoughts on whether Characters have discovered the darker magic secrets left behind from the long night and may be secretly following the practices of the Great Other (i.e. Qyburn and Marywn). Qyburn utilizes necromancy to bring back Gregor, similar to how the Others raise/control wights. Marywn went as far to Essos to teach Mirri Maz Duur and possibly several others the dark magic secrets.
I just meant that when Dany was in the Funeral pyre...could that have been the sacrifice of Royal Blood... it did wake 3 dragons. More effective than leeches.
Well you do mention that that last dragons we're quite up to snuff...
btw... listened to you all day, my boss is gonna be pissed. :) thanks
you guys make laugh.
Would you do a predictions video on how you think the books would end?
I LOVE YOUR VIDEOS MY WESTEROS MY BROTHER AND SISTER
So when you read her PoV chapter how did you interpret it? I'm worried now i have missed some clues somewhere! for example how do we know she is in disguise? Was there some indication she is using a glamour?
16:23 Isn't "two gods locked in eternal war" pretty much the definition of ditheism, not monotheism?
Penny Lane Perhaps, but I don't think so. Christianity is a monotheistic religion yet there is an eternal war between God and Satan.
Westeros History Yeah, they never explain that part very well. I don't know of any interpretation of Christianity where Satan is supposed to be as powerful as God, however. Why God doesn't destroy Satan then? That's where different bullshit explanations come into play: free will, temptation, no good without evil, punishment for the sinners, yaddayaddayadda. But never is God not _capable_ of destroying Satan. He just chooses not to. But he's no dick, oh no. It's ... complicated.
Penny Lane So true. It does seem that the Drowned God and Storm God are more evenly matched, so to speak. Not sure about R'hllor and the Great Other.
Westeros History The numerology of -theisms is a bit complicated anyway. Since the Trinity doesn't keep Christianity from being a monotheistic religion, I guess neither would the Seven be disqualified. On the other hand, the only time I heard an expert question whether Christianity was a monotheistic religion was in reference to the veneration of saints which in some areas of the world is so pronounced that it becomes a kind of pantheon.
Why this is relevant here? It's not, sorry.
+Westeros History (AA Podcast) No there isn't lol
In the bible, like the original one, in aramaic, there's not even an indication that's there's only one god, and Satan was kicked out of heaven and depending on the book, cast into the pit. It's not a war, and it's not an indication that Satan has the ability to create life.
That's a good way to put it... In RPG terms she is definitely a multi-classer, hah. I do think she's hiding her appearance with a glamor because she should look old and has no slave tattoos, but it's possible she was never tattooed and she has simply not aged. But I lean towards an altered appearance, like Rattleshirt/Mance and Stannis' Lightbringer. It seems that shadowbinders are fairly common in Asshai, so perhaps there they don't think of it as evil or bad. Perhaps it's almost normal...
A great sacrifice was needed to wake stone dragons! There is power in kings blood! If a Khaleesi is a queen then a Khal is a king so by mercy killing Khal Drogo and burning him with the dragon eggs (" that the ages had turned to stone") she woke the stone dragons with the power of his kings blood !
kim huggins Her son was sacrificed, he had kings blood.(Being half Targ) So that could count, because Khal's are choosen they are not automaticly Khal because of their blood.
grierson123456 But most houses were kings of something, so it must be related to blood lines that are heavily related to royalty, Edric Storm because of his father and the Targaryens for being kings for so long and of so much.
***** I think you haven't seen the calculation somebody made about what percentage of the original "dragon blood" was in every Targaryen, the last numbers were amazingly low, so it can't be that. We also know of another family that intermarried and married Targaryens a lot who also come from Valyria, the Velaryons and Melisandre wasn't all up on Stannis' face about burning them, so no, even though Dragon blood is royal blood, it definitely has o be a person very related to royalty for it to work.
If she is the Night Queen, then everyone is screwed.
Great! i am looking forward to it!
I say this with respect, but listening to asoiaf lore and watching a girl play with her hair is like a visual ASMR for me.
When are you guys going to post another video?!?!?
I've noticed that when the two of you do a video together you both laugh a lot at the end of statements and while the other is speaking largely for no obvious reason. ^.^
+Titus Veridius They do a rehearsal first, so it can be tied to that.
***** I see the same thing on Radio Westeros but it's a lot smoother and doesn't bother me as much.
Also.
I had forgotten about this comment; I should have arranged to sound more like constructive criticism. I enjoy your videos, thanks for making them.
I know everyone assumes that Mellisandre will raise John. I know it is not GRRM style but lady Stoneheart could pass her gift to him just it was past to her
Neither would actually bring him back to life if he skinchanged into Ghost before dying. I think his body will be preserved below the wall, dead.. Until for some reason (Bran or Bloodraven using magic? Just to make it a bit more unpredictable which is big with George) he is brought to life and returned to his body at the same time.
I think its criminal that you didnt even touch upon real world alegories for the religeons
***** When we focus on specific religions, we will do that. The Comet episode was more of an overview of many different religions and beliefs.
k thanks, btw what is an AA podcast?
***** just a nickname we gave the show (AA = Aziz & Ashaya)
oh right cool ^^
North: Could a person be saved in a Weir Tree? Is the wall made of giants? Wasn't KTS's omen with the Direwolves and Deer the 1st?
...what about the power of the old houses? and what is the sig of those houses now dead, ie Gardner.
Any thoughts on asoiaf being part of the Thousand Worlds Universe?
+Wethewax but isn't it true that the magic of yesterday is the science of today? Or magic of today is the science of tomorrow (can't remember exactly how I heard it worded by some learned person) kind of rings true especially given GRRM may not want to give a lot away... I dunno I tend to view "it's magic" as misleading and/or dismissive
😏
I would love to know more about cold hands. Is he benjen stark .
I thought u were going to talk about wierwoods in your next video. I mean this video was great too but I was looking forward to the topic of wierwoods.
don't tie it up, you like fine as hell right like that
Lord Davos StarkRaven Targaryen the First of His Name. Smuggler of everything from onions to shadow babies.
Do you think that the Weirtrees/Green Seers will be a Deus Ex Arboris revealing Lianna's story? other Fabled stories? When are we gonna find out what a Grumpkin is? I would also like to hear people's thoughts on the significance of each of the Origin of each group stories... Is Naga the real mother of Dragons? and did she destroy Valyria? was old Val just a nest? What is the sig of riders/mating of other animals. Eagle Riders, Griffins, Harpies, Bears, Deer, Elk...etc :) heartyou
Maybe iv missed it but is the comet still in there