Do every 3d sonic game now I would love to see one from kingdom valley (sonic 06) speed highway in (sonic adventure) roof top run in (sonic unleashed) night palace in (sonic and the secret rings) this one I would love to see because this game deserves more respect
There's a rule in video game design called "Make the first level last". It's all about making a strong first impression with the introduction by utilizing techniques and optimizations learned through developing the rest of the game. The first level always gets the highest amount of polish and design consideration as it's also a tutorial for what the rest of the game has to offer.
Seaside Hill also has a great aesthetic. Mixing the checkerboard dirt of Green Hill Zone, the beach/ocean theme of Emerald Coast, and some new, exciting ruins into one. It definitely feels like the first level of a Sonic game, but it still manages to feel fresh, despite its inspirations. Not to mention the music is fantastic.
it's honestly a similar aesthetic that the new game should've taken. just a bit more realistic/ higher fidelity textures to match current gen, but still stylized so it's not too boring.
I'm glad Sonic Heroes levels are getting some love. I really liked the level design in that game, especially Seaside Hill, Egg Fleet, Frog Forest, and Grand Metropolis. That aspect of design felt like the strongest part of the whole game, with levels that are dripping with character and with a realization of the world that perfectly compliments Sonic as a franchise. A certain heightening of reality, abundant colors and dramatic design features, reminiscent of previous games.
This video makes me respect the level design of sonic heroes even more and I already like the levels. But I have to be in a certain mood to play sonic heroes though
The level design in Heroes is some of the best in 3D Sonic games, with a great mixture of open/explorative with linear/gimmicky levels, but it has some flaws Like parts that rely heavily on scripted segments that can be easily broken because of the unpolished physics and collision detection, especially in Casino Park and Bingo Highway And the stages have *too much* bottomless pits, which wouldn't be a problem, if it weren't for the slippery controls and buggy scripted parts
@@ayrtonjoga yea I agree I dont like rail canyon cuz the physics suck and the rails are really unsatisfying to grind on like in adventure 2 with flat out bad level design and bingo highway and casino park. Parts of bullet station as well.
"Knuckles formation has him using his friends as boxing gloves, and comon, what better mark of friendship is there." Uhhh, allowing your friends to ride in your mouth and spit them at your foes.
Fun Fact: The island where the Goal Ring is located is actually in the shape of a whale, with the player entering its “mouth” after the giant loop-de-loop, and springing off of its “tail.” The level’s mission even says, “Head for the whale island.” Edit: I just realized that the hidden 1up balloon inside the whale has a Dash Panel that shoots you back out just like a blowhole!
What's even cooler is that you can see it in the distance from Sea Gate, and Ocean Palace starts with you jumping off the back of it. They connected those areas really well.
Honestly, I feel like Sonic Heroes’ Team gameplay actually has one other advantage: It brings in 3 different game play styles simultaneously, and as a result, the level is designed to accommodate all of them. Look at the levels in Sonic Adventure for example. It’s clear that a lot of the stages are built for Sonic’s gameplay, which doesn’t always accommodate the gameplay styles of other characters, such as Tails and Knuckles only getting to play in 1 section of the Casino zone, and especially Big, who’s relegated to bodies of water in the level. Or in games like the Sly Cooper series, a lot of the movement in the hub worlds tend to accommodate moving with Sly better than with Bentley and Murray. With Sonic Heroes using all 3 gameplay styles in tandem, levels are built around making all of them useful and flowing well between them, while still making the styles distinct from each other. Honestly, Sonic Heroes is a strong game overall, flaws and all, and I’m glad it was one of the first games I ever played.
Sonic Heroes was my first Sonic game on GC. I was sad to learn how little love it gets. It's nice to hear good things on it, moreover when you're behind it
I'm learning a lot of stuff thanks to ZoomZike's videos on level design. These videos might as well be a mandatory watch for any level designer, aspiring or not.
As someone who used to play this game for hours on end as a kid , Seaside Hill is just an iconic and memorable place. Even when playing as Team Rose its still such a feel good stage man.
This was the level that made Sonic stand out to me as a kid! Got a GameCube for Christmas, picked up Sonic Heroes to go with it because "the blue guy looks cool", and never turned back. I'm glad to see more people acknowledging the good parts of Sonic Heroes. This game has some of the best level design I've ever seen from a platformer. Every stage is just so full of personality, and when I think of Sonic stages, this is what I think of and hope to see more of in the future.
12:41 the difference in animation between fly and speed formations here also plays into the decision making using multiple paths. In this case, Fly is going to get you through this faster, with Sonic bouncing along the springs looking cool, but taking longer than Tails, who goes straight up. Each animation plays into each character; Sonic wants to show off, while Tails is less to do with his personality, but simply doubling down on his flight, with his animation sending them straight up.
And of course Knuckles' gameplay is about punching and breaking through his path so he gets the mentioned-in-video cannon control in order to destroy the nearby blocks for goodies The way this level seems to mirror characters through something as basic as a cannon gimmick is incredible
Seaside Hill, Grand Metropolis and Final Fortress have some of the best themes for me personally in all of Heroes. And these results in the following... Seaside Hill: A vibrant road of beaches and a awe inspiring first impression of the Ocean Palace similar to the Mystic Ruins. Grand Metropolis: The best re-imaging of a bustling city in the far future for many folk like myself. The energy from that track alone tells you that the engine is still churning to this day under your feet. Final Fortress: Need I say more than that is needed? This churning machine in the midst of rumbling thunder is not only a menacing feat to witness as you make your drop but is Heroes's way of saying 'I'm not holding back and neither shall you!'. That took more words than it needed to but the point still stands... We are all Heroes in each and everyone of us and unlocking that lock shall show our own strengths.
My favourite track in Heroes perosnally is Mystic Mansion. I just love the way the music progresses as you progress further into the level, and I think it does a perfect job being a haunted house track in a fast-paced game.
Oh boi, Sonic Heroes. Literally my second Sonic game in my childhood. I lost count how many times I 100%'ed it. I still don't understand why this game is so underrated by the devs or publishers themselves that it's not even in the Steam store. I tried to lure my best friend to try it, but he gave up before he could even beat Seaside Hill, because "his brain couldn't keep up with having to control 3 characters at once", which made me sad, because this game rocks. I still think it has one of the best OST in the entire franchise. You know what? I'm gonna send this to my friend again and maybe, just maaaybe they will change they mind and give it another try. You have a very convincing voice and your points in this video are very self-explanatory, maybe that would work. Although, I'll be honest, I like Shadow The Hedgehog's control speed more, both games look the same, but for some reason the second one feels a little bit slower and easier to turn around at full speed. Maybe that's just me? And of course, of all things Seaside Hill is just so iconic, I'm proud it made into Sonic Generations. So many great memories connect me to it. I shed a tear watching this video :') P.S. Searching for crabs for the very first time took me almost a bit over an hour and a half though, jeez, literally the only bad memory about this stage. Yes, I wasn't a very observant kid.
This video is great. Reminded me how much I’ve always wanted a Sonic Heroes 2. Too bad it’s been so long now that it may never happen. Just glad I got to experience this game as a kid and still appreciate it now as an adult.
Honestly I think it was the best way to honour the Classic style while still moving forward with the (at the time) Modern style. The way the game is set-up with 2-Act "Zones" and Special Stages for the Chaos Emeralds, as well as just in general the aesthetics of each level, really makes it feel like a throwback to the Classic games, but it's still all fully 3D, fully voice-acted and keeps the series moving forward. The Advance series was also doing a good job with that around the same time. Back when Sega knew how to use nostalgia without relying on it entirely.
I'd just like to point out that heroes only had 2 level designers while forces had 3, and 1 of the heroes designers had to leave in the middle of production causing the other to have to crunch a ton, and while you can definitely see that crunch in a lot of heroes' levels, there are still quite a few that shine from the level design just from the inherent talent they had, which is almost never seen in forces even if there were more level designers and presumably less crunch, I think it really shows the value of experience in stuff like this, as to compare to forces again, only 1 level designer was returning and they were from lost world, and you can really see the inexperience in that games level design compared to in heroes even with the crunch.
Sonic Heroes is one of my favorites in the series. The stages, tracks, and trio gameplay did a lot for me. Bosses are a mixed bag, but this game is somehow still wildly underrated at times. Especially Team Chaotix who have some pretty interesting takes on these levels.
Sonic Heroes is secretly a perfectly fine game. It's this weird medium between the spindash and boost eras, but I feel like its level design has a good mix of speed and platforming. Seaside Hill and Ocean Palace are very aesthetic, and really the whole soundtrack is fantastic.
Sonic Heroes' level designs are incredible, in just how much they have to offer for those who like to explore or for those who just wanna speed to end of the level. The bonus points are awarded for things like taking optimal routes or clearing enemy encounters as quickly as possible, so it really feels that the A-rank is rewarded only to those who have both explored the levels and mastered the game's mechanics. People criticize Heroes for 'being too slippery', but my counter-argument to that is that that's ONLY the Speed formation, and that's entirely the point - the high speed and mobility it offers comes at the cost of being the most difficult to control. But the levels are designed with this in mind - for most of the game, especially whenever there's a stretch between enemy/platforming sections, the areas will be either wide, have rails to keep you from falling off, or both. The only time falling off the stage due to slippery controls is ever a concern is on sections that WANT you to use one of the other formations of more precision platforming. Unless there's a specific mechanics that requires Power or Fly, you're free to use Speed formation to your heart's content and that will let you move faster, but you'll be taking a huge risk on narrow sections with no rails. Also, just wanna point out at the end of Seaside Hill, after you defeat the initial enemies that show up using Team Blast, another group of enemies spawn in. With Team Sonic, when the Team Blast guage is cooling down, you can use Light Speed Attack by jumping and hitting the attack button in Speed formation. This second group of enemies is supposed to demonstrate that, but for some reason there's no hint bubble explaining it to you. In fact as far as I'm aware the mechanic is ONLY revealed in the manual. There is a button pompt when you jump and there are enemies nearby, but it's easy to miss. The Light Speed Attack is basically just a mini-Team Blast, where Sonic bounces between all enemies currently on the screen and one-shots them.
The first time I did that was probably only like 5 years ago, I thought it was a bug that the game thought I was Super Sonic for some reason, since I knew Super Sonic has that attack.
i found that by accident as a kid and thought i broke the game lol i remember being so excited that i could annihilate waves of enemies so easily. and then it wore off. one of the greatest disappointments of my life
That's actually a really odd mechanic of the game. If I am not mistaken, it, Dark's exact same one and Chaotix's ring gain when you defeat even more enemies while the gauge is depleting after using the Blast are ONLY in the Gamecube version, which could explain why it feels a bit off and there are no tutorials for it. I personally absolutely love it though.
This video gave me new appreciation for the level design for sure, and whilst I still have issues with the textures and assets they used the bones of the stage are way more solid than I gave them credit. Good job Zike, see you tomorrow!
It really is a good tutorial stage. Sadly, players who choose not to play the easy team or the actual tutorial will then find out that in order to progress farther they must eventually play that easy team which starts players off with that tutorial. That's why I suggest that any completionists or anyone who at least intends to see the true final boss play Team Rose first to get the easy part out of the way so that it's not even easier later.
In my playthrough of the game, I just did the Teams in left-to-right order and I actually think that worked better than going Easy-Normal-Hard-Chaotix. I did the Normal mode first, then after being more familiar with the controls and the stages I tackled Hard mode for an extra challenge, which really kept me on my toes. Then I got to chillax a bit with Easy mode - by this point I was familiar enough with the levels that the run only took around 40 minutes. I had decided to leave it for the next day after finishing Team Dark but after playing it I realised I could've absolutely just jumped right in, and it would've been a perfect way to cool off after finishing the Hard mode. Either way, it meant that I was more relaxed going into Chaotix (which was nowhere near as difficult or cryptic as I'd heard, but I was pretty nervous going in because of how people usually describe their missions).
That section with all the splitting paths is reminiscent of how the old 2D sonic games approached level design. Also, I suspect the fact that you have the option to take paths with other formations than the intended one helps it feel like each formation is adding new opportunities for the player, rather than restricting their options.
Two sonic games I know just scream nostalgia to me, Sonic Mega collection and sonic heros. You managed to describe the first level better then I ever could.
After all these years i finally found out why there was just a random hole at the "finish line", i actually thought it would kill me for some dumb reason and the many other things i missed when i first played it back then like knuckles' "canons" path and how useful firing one character at time really is.
I actually love the music in seaside hills It’s pretty relaxing yet feels like I’m listening it on the radio for a morning drive. Sorta like sonic with his chill attitude.
If there's one thing Sega never half asses it's a game's music. Even '06 has good music for a game that needed a lot more time in the oven. Hell, Heroes needed more time and yet it's still playable
Adventure 2 may be the more polished game and have the AMAZING Chao Garden, but I've always had a soft spot for the sheer amount of personality and attention to detail in Heroes! Not to mention that every level technically functions as multiple levels that each highlight a different aspect of the stage's base design: the traditional Sonic experience with blazing speed and optional exploration for Team Sonic, the more challenging and in-depth Team Dark, the easier and streamlined Team Rose, and all those extra paths to explore getting put to use for Team Chaotix! ...And getting spammed with annoying roadblocks in Super Hard Mode, but y'know It makes me so sad that Sega's never really revisited teammate switching on the fly like this in another 3D game, it opens up so many possibilities for level design that you just don't get if you have to design a single level multiple characters go through like Adventure or different levels using the same assets like Adventure 2
Re-playing Seaside Hills always feels like I'm coming back to that happy place of my childhood...The music, the aesthetic, the flow and design of this level is just incredible.
I'm so happy to see you gushing about Sonic Heroes. This was my first Sonic game, and my sister and I used to restart it all the time for the opening cutscenes (thank you, 99 save files - these were the days before UA-cam when you couldn't just look these things up to rewatch them, ya know). We were absolutely in love with the variety that this game allowed - three different playstyles in every level AND four different teams to get completely different ways of experiencing each level. OK, Team Dark and Team Sonic are similar, but Team Rose being structured as easy mode with shorter levels and Team Chaotix being structured as hard mode with completely different missions altogether? That was mind-blowing to a couple of elementary schoolers, and honestly, I feel like it's still something that makes this game unique to this day. I mean, how many games are significantly different in the goals between easy/normal/hard mode beyond just adjusting the difficulty of enemies and surviving? And how many games require the player to beat all of the difficulty levels to get 100% of the story?? It wouldn't feel fair to the player to require hard mode for story purposes if it's just a sliding difficulty scale because some of us (read: me) aren't all that good at playing the game and will rage quit a hard mode where what makes it hard is a restriction on item usage or something like that where you get the same story from easy mode. But in Sonic Heroes, playing Team Chaotix doesn't actually increase enemy strength or decrease the abilities of the characters you're playing. It's hard because it's so vastly different from the other teams. (That's not to say I never rage quit this game, because I played the PS2 version and chasing those Chaos Emeralds...yeah. BUT when I rage quit one save file with everything complete except the Chaos Emeralds and thus Metal Sonic, I always went and started a new file on the next one down because I still had so much fun playing this game.) Idk I'm gushing now but I really do love this game so much and I'm happy to see it getting the ZoomZike level analysis treatment.
This is just from the first few seconds, but one thing I think the game does wrong are the springs. As part of that opening scene, it clearly shows you that sonic is speed and his friends follow on either side. The first spring should show that by being in this formation, you'd get an extra reward as all characters bounce on the three sections. But I noticed the characters usally only hit 2/3. It's not a big deal but it's the one thing that isn't seamless for the opening.
Yes Zoom give Sonic more love. MORE LOVEEEE. also can't wait for you to get to Egg Fleet and that Haunted Mansion that name escapes me. I love those levels. Super fun to "break"
It's also my favorite level in Sonic Generations because they decided to keep the "freedom" from Heroes and let you go through many alternate paths in different ways even though you are limited to just playing as Sonic
That is incredibly free form for a first level. Edit: Also, I think that final cannon was supposed to hint at what each member is all about and that the one you're using controls the cannon. Sonic takes a stylish route that reflects his optimism and attitude, Tails takes the smart and logical route since he's the brains of the operation, and Knuckles analyzes the area to get secrets since he's known at that point for finding unique routes and secrets where others wouldn't. Edit 2: Try analyzing this level for the other characters.
It took me an embarrassingly long time to notice that the final area of this level is a whale-shaped island, just like the ones you can see in the background. Heroes really is a one of a kind game, wish there were more platformers that attempted a dynamic multi-character system.
Nice level analysis. I love the "Speed, Power, Fly/Technical" categories that Heroes introduced (and later side games used to classify characters) so much.
I always loved Sonic Heroes as a kid. Everything in this game is very unique and original at the time. The fact that we could play as three characters at once, have great level designs, decent soundtrack, the story that comes full circle like the Adventure games, and it even multiplayer! Playing the game for the first time, I was fascinated by the music and level design of Seaside Hill and became one of the levels that stood out to me and be one of my favorites since.
Best Sonic game, imo. Great aesthetic, great controls, great OST, great level design, so fast and big, it feels so good to carry your momentum and pull off all the cool niche tricks you learn over the years- level 3 speed formation has tornado effect on jump dashes, always has effect on rocket Accel, you can use tornado to increase elevation by using it next to a wall, it'll sometimes cancel and lift you up, and if you're using Shadow, if the switch is active when you're near a switch-operated pole, the game will treat it as fully extended. Fly has most damage in the game if you get a good angle to trap teamates in enemies at level 3, can absorb rings with level 3 thunder shoot, and you can gain height from certain wall interactions and thunder shoot interactions. Power, knuckles, if you mash attack he can never finish and you can output decent damage if you don't want to end the combo. Fly can't break shields, I don't think, maybe it can break the degrading stone ones, but power can shine for those if you don't have level 3 speed or don't want to switch to it. Also the only thing that hurts armoured robots. The best way of dealing with the strongest hammer dudes is fly, thunder shoot to build your team blast, imo. Maybe you'll get better times with power sometimes, thunder shoot can be unreliable. For any level where results are affected by score, always kill the golden laser guys, they're 10000 points each. Also I've noticed when using attacks, I think it mostly happens when queueing a switch, either knuckles or sonic will adopt fire or tornado attribute. Just me messing around near torches in Mansion. Don't know how useful this can be, maybe you can throw up enemies using a queued sonic if you get your timings right on that pre-dunk move knuckles has?
Great video! Sonic Heroes was my first Sonic game and Seaside Hill has always had my favourite level aesthetic across the whole series, a wonderful start to a wonderful game.
As much as people choose sides with modern or classic sonic. I feel there’s no game that combines the two styles better than heroes. If you told me that this game was sonic 3& knuckles 3D then I’d 100% believe you.
A reason I love Sonic Heroes is the unique gameplay that no other game used up to this point. I never seen any Heroes-inspired games with that team/formation gimmick
Id like to see you tackle one of these missions in team rose perspective, Specifically casino park, since if your really determined, you can do a huge jump and play a huge part of the level that should normally be inaccessable to them.
This is why I love playing Sonic Heroes. There's so many playstyles and alternate paths in this game to choose from. With all of them having different animations too. I really do miss it when Sonic games gave us this many choices to beat a level.
Heroes’ Levels make it feel like a Grand and Fun adventure. They’re so Lively and Colorful. The Bombastic Music and Banter between Characters adds so much personality. I wish I could play this game myself.
I knew this was coming eventually! I even called it before in one of your previous videos (the Cosmic Wall one). This video was awesome, just like all of your previous ones!
Sonic Heroes? Nice. While far from my favorite 3D Sonic game, I can't deny that it's got some pretty good level design and aesthetics that harken back to the Genesis games more than the Adventure games did.
One thing I noticed is that that first checkpoint is very deliberately placed to level up knuckles, so when you come to the combat section, you have his full combo when you mash attack, ensuring the player knows it exists even if they don’t quite get that you have to level to get the finisher yet.
Your wording at the beginning made it sound like you were calling the first level soulless, at least that was the impression I had, which was why I felt completely utterly confused for like the entire first minute of the video, lol.
Boi oh boi! These zone videos are great, i tell you what! Hey, Zike, I was wondering. Could you maybe do a zone cartography video, just connecting different zones together based off theme, structure and lore? If that's within your forte, of course. I just never seen anybody really go over that aspect before. I'm not even sure if there's enough substance like that in Sonic's lore to make such a topic but It'd be really cool if someone did it anyway and i think you're the man for the job, bro! :)
I remember when I was a kid, all the kids at school were mixed on Sonic Heroes, calling it bad just because of the 3 controllable characters swapping out on the fly was different from any other sonic game, but I always felt it to be unique and the game does a good job of making you utilize all three characters, often giving you the choice of how you want to approach things. If Sega never gives us Sonic Adventure 3, Sonic Heroes 2 would honestly be the next best thing.
Fun fact. The levels was made by two guys at first until one if them got sick and was left to one person rush and finish it on his own. Poor guy missed out on a lot if games that came out that year.
This is the Green Hill of stages more used of all Franchise. This is so well made and was my first 3D Sonic game i have ever experienced in my childhood Even attempted to complete the stage without changing characters and in my knowledge, the three can complete it without using the power of teamwork. I have a video explainging it
Friendly reminder about June Zoom's 4th Rule:
"Upload time goes by the Pacific Time Zone"
One day I won't be minutes before the deadline AHAHAHAHA
YOOOO YOU REALLY CUT IT CLOSE.
What if you start uploading BEFORE the deadline, but the deadline hits while it’s still uploading?
Do every 3d sonic game now I would love to see one from kingdom valley (sonic 06) speed highway in (sonic adventure) roof top run in (sonic unleashed) night palace in (sonic and the secret rings) this one I would love to see because this game deserves more respect
Want you help from me
@@elibonham4388 are you 2 or having a stroke
There's a rule in video game design called "Make the first level last". It's all about making a strong first impression with the introduction by utilizing techniques and optimizations learned through developing the rest of the game. The first level always gets the highest amount of polish and design consideration as it's also a tutorial for what the rest of the game has to offer.
Seaside Hill also has a great aesthetic. Mixing the checkerboard dirt of Green Hill Zone, the beach/ocean theme of Emerald Coast, and some new, exciting ruins into one. It definitely feels like the first level of a Sonic game, but it still manages to feel fresh, despite its inspirations.
Not to mention the music is fantastic.
it's honestly a similar aesthetic that the new game should've taken. just a bit more realistic/ higher fidelity textures to match current gen, but still stylized so it's not too boring.
I’m not going to lie this can even beat the relaxing emerald coast imo
I'm glad Sonic Heroes levels are getting some love. I really liked the level design in that game, especially Seaside Hill, Egg Fleet, Frog Forest, and Grand Metropolis. That aspect of design felt like the strongest part of the whole game, with levels that are dripping with character and with a realization of the world that perfectly compliments Sonic as a franchise. A certain heightening of reality, abundant colors and dramatic design features, reminiscent of previous games.
This video makes me respect the level design of sonic heroes even more and I already like the levels. But I have to be in a certain mood to play sonic heroes though
Grand Metropolis and power plant just drags on for longer than it should
The level design in Heroes is some of the best in 3D Sonic games, with a great mixture of open/explorative with linear/gimmicky levels, but it has some flaws
Like parts that rely heavily on scripted segments that can be easily broken because of the unpolished physics and collision detection, especially in Casino Park and Bingo Highway
And the stages have *too much* bottomless pits, which wouldn't be a problem, if it weren't for the slippery controls and buggy scripted parts
@@ayrtonjoga yea I agree I dont like rail canyon cuz the physics suck and the rails are really unsatisfying to grind on like in adventure 2 with flat out bad level design and bingo highway and casino park. Parts of bullet station as well.
@@austria-hungary7680 takes 5 minutes for me
"Knuckles formation has him using his friends as boxing gloves, and comon, what better mark of friendship is there."
Uhhh, allowing your friends to ride in your mouth and spit them at your foes.
ya got me there
What
@@Miffycon Team Chaotix Power Character in Sonic Heros, Vector, literally stuffs his partners in his mouth, and spits them at his targets.
@@Eddiember but Espio is literally Vector’s kind and Charmy is tiny so…
Fun Fact: The island where the Goal Ring is located is actually in the shape of a whale, with the player entering its “mouth” after the giant loop-de-loop, and springing off of its “tail.” The level’s mission even says, “Head for the whale island.”
Edit: I just realized that the hidden 1up balloon inside the whale has a Dash Panel that shoots you back out just like a blowhole!
I love that you can see the whale island in the distance at the start of the level. Gives you a good scale of how far you travel
What's even cooler is that you can see it in the distance from Sea Gate, and Ocean Palace starts with you jumping off the back of it. They connected those areas really well.
Honestly, I feel like Sonic Heroes’ Team gameplay actually has one other advantage: It brings in 3 different game play styles simultaneously, and as a result, the level is designed to accommodate all of them.
Look at the levels in Sonic Adventure for example. It’s clear that a lot of the stages are built for Sonic’s gameplay, which doesn’t always accommodate the gameplay styles of other characters, such as Tails and Knuckles only getting to play in 1 section of the Casino zone, and especially Big, who’s relegated to bodies of water in the level. Or in games like the Sly Cooper series, a lot of the movement in the hub worlds tend to accommodate moving with Sly better than with Bentley and Murray.
With Sonic Heroes using all 3 gameplay styles in tandem, levels are built around making all of them useful and flowing well between them, while still making the styles distinct from each other.
Honestly, Sonic Heroes is a strong game overall, flaws and all, and I’m glad it was one of the first games I ever played.
@? Block makes sense
Sonic Heroes was my first Sonic game on GC. I was sad to learn how little love it gets.
It's nice to hear good things on it, moreover when you're behind it
I always love how enthusiastic you sound just simply talking about the intricacies of level design in video games for as long as you do
I'm learning a lot of stuff thanks to ZoomZike's videos on level design. These videos might as well be a mandatory watch for any level designer, aspiring or not.
As someone who used to play this game for hours on end as a kid , Seaside Hill is just an iconic and memorable place. Even when playing as Team Rose its still such a feel good stage man.
This was the level that made Sonic stand out to me as a kid! Got a GameCube for Christmas, picked up Sonic Heroes to go with it because "the blue guy looks cool", and never turned back. I'm glad to see more people acknowledging the good parts of Sonic Heroes. This game has some of the best level design I've ever seen from a platformer. Every stage is just so full of personality, and when I think of Sonic stages, this is what I think of and hope to see more of in the future.
12:41 the difference in animation between fly and speed formations here also plays into the decision making using multiple paths. In this case, Fly is going to get you through this faster, with Sonic bouncing along the springs looking cool, but taking longer than Tails, who goes straight up. Each animation plays into each character; Sonic wants to show off, while Tails is less to do with his personality, but simply doubling down on his flight, with his animation sending them straight up.
And of course Knuckles' gameplay is about punching and breaking through his path so he gets the mentioned-in-video cannon control in order to destroy the nearby blocks for goodies
The way this level seems to mirror characters through something as basic as a cannon gimmick is incredible
Think of it as Tails being the genius, practical one. Going straight up is the most efficient method to progress.
power formation is so cool. the glide, the friend gloves, the canon throw thing. so good
Seaside Hill, Grand Metropolis and Final Fortress have some of the best themes for me personally in all of Heroes. And these results in the following...
Seaside Hill: A vibrant road of beaches and a awe inspiring first impression of the Ocean Palace similar to the Mystic Ruins.
Grand Metropolis: The best re-imaging of a bustling city in the far future for many folk like myself. The energy from that track alone tells you that the engine is still churning to this day under your feet.
Final Fortress: Need I say more than that is needed? This churning machine in the midst of rumbling thunder is not only a menacing feat to witness as you make your drop but is Heroes's way of saying 'I'm not holding back and neither shall you!'.
That took more words than it needed to but the point still stands...
We are all Heroes in each and everyone of us and unlocking that lock shall show our own strengths.
My favourite track in Heroes perosnally is Mystic Mansion. I just love the way the music progresses as you progress further into the level, and I think it does a perfect job being a haunted house track in a fast-paced game.
Oh boi, Sonic Heroes. Literally my second Sonic game in my childhood. I lost count how many times I 100%'ed it.
I still don't understand why this game is so underrated by the devs or publishers themselves that it's not even in the Steam store.
I tried to lure my best friend to try it, but he gave up before he could even beat Seaside Hill, because "his brain couldn't keep up with having to control 3 characters at once", which made me sad, because this game rocks. I still think it has one of the best OST in the entire franchise.
You know what? I'm gonna send this to my friend again and maybe, just maaaybe they will change they mind and give it another try. You have a very convincing voice and your points in this video are very self-explanatory, maybe that would work.
Although, I'll be honest, I like Shadow The Hedgehog's control speed more, both games look the same, but for some reason the second one feels a little bit slower and easier to turn around at full speed. Maybe that's just me?
And of course, of all things Seaside Hill is just so iconic, I'm proud it made into Sonic Generations. So many great memories connect me to it. I shed a tear watching this video :')
P.S. Searching for crabs for the very first time took me almost a bit over an hour and a half though, jeez, literally the only bad memory about this stage. Yes, I wasn't a very observant kid.
This video is great. Reminded me how much I’ve always wanted a Sonic Heroes 2. Too bad it’s been so long now that it may never happen. Just glad I got to experience this game as a kid and still appreciate it now as an adult.
Amazing video, Seaside Hill definitely deserves its flowers!
Always happy to see sonic heroes love! I know it isn’t exactly what people expected after Adventure 2 but I adore this game. Thank you!!!
Honestly I think it was the best way to honour the Classic style while still moving forward with the (at the time) Modern style. The way the game is set-up with 2-Act "Zones" and Special Stages for the Chaos Emeralds, as well as just in general the aesthetics of each level, really makes it feel like a throwback to the Classic games, but it's still all fully 3D, fully voice-acted and keeps the series moving forward.
The Advance series was also doing a good job with that around the same time. Back when Sega knew how to use nostalgia without relying on it entirely.
I'd just like to point out that heroes only had 2 level designers while forces had 3, and 1 of the heroes designers had to leave in the middle of production causing the other to have to crunch a ton, and while you can definitely see that crunch in a lot of heroes' levels, there are still quite a few that shine from the level design just from the inherent talent they had, which is almost never seen in forces even if there were more level designers and presumably less crunch, I think it really shows the value of experience in stuff like this, as to compare to forces again, only 1 level designer was returning and they were from lost world, and you can really see the inexperience in that games level design compared to in heroes even with the crunch.
I also thought about that story. Makes me wonder what Heroes could have been. Or Forces.
One of those two level designers - the one who stayed - was Takashi Iizuka!
Sonic Heroes is one of my favorites in the series.
The stages, tracks, and trio gameplay did a lot for me. Bosses are a mixed bag, but this game is somehow still wildly underrated at times. Especially Team Chaotix who have some pretty interesting takes on these levels.
Sonic Heroes is secretly a perfectly fine game. It's this weird medium between the spindash and boost eras, but I feel like its level design has a good mix of speed and platforming. Seaside Hill and Ocean Palace are very aesthetic, and really the whole soundtrack is fantastic.
amazing how that one section of this one level has more exploration than the entirety of Sonic Forces
The replay value of this SINGLE LEVEL alone is amazing!
Heroes deserves a remaster, I can only imagine how great it'd be with more polished graphics and bug fixes
Sonic Heroes' level designs are incredible, in just how much they have to offer for those who like to explore or for those who just wanna speed to end of the level. The bonus points are awarded for things like taking optimal routes or clearing enemy encounters as quickly as possible, so it really feels that the A-rank is rewarded only to those who have both explored the levels and mastered the game's mechanics.
People criticize Heroes for 'being too slippery', but my counter-argument to that is that that's ONLY the Speed formation, and that's entirely the point - the high speed and mobility it offers comes at the cost of being the most difficult to control. But the levels are designed with this in mind - for most of the game, especially whenever there's a stretch between enemy/platforming sections, the areas will be either wide, have rails to keep you from falling off, or both. The only time falling off the stage due to slippery controls is ever a concern is on sections that WANT you to use one of the other formations of more precision platforming. Unless there's a specific mechanics that requires Power or Fly, you're free to use Speed formation to your heart's content and that will let you move faster, but you'll be taking a huge risk on narrow sections with no rails.
Also, just wanna point out at the end of Seaside Hill, after you defeat the initial enemies that show up using Team Blast, another group of enemies spawn in. With Team Sonic, when the Team Blast guage is cooling down, you can use Light Speed Attack by jumping and hitting the attack button in Speed formation. This second group of enemies is supposed to demonstrate that, but for some reason there's no hint bubble explaining it to you. In fact as far as I'm aware the mechanic is ONLY revealed in the manual. There is a button pompt when you jump and there are enemies nearby, but it's easy to miss. The Light Speed Attack is basically just a mini-Team Blast, where Sonic bounces between all enemies currently on the screen and one-shots them.
The first time I did that was probably only like 5 years ago, I thought it was a bug that the game thought I was Super Sonic for some reason, since I knew Super Sonic has that attack.
i found that by accident as a kid and thought i broke the game lol i remember being so excited that i could annihilate waves of enemies so easily. and then it wore off. one of the greatest disappointments of my life
That's actually a really odd mechanic of the game. If I am not mistaken, it, Dark's exact same one and Chaotix's ring gain when you defeat even more enemies while the gauge is depleting after using the Blast are ONLY in the Gamecube version, which could explain why it feels a bit off and there are no tutorials for it. I personally absolutely love it though.
This video gave me new appreciation for the level design for sure, and whilst I still have issues with the textures and assets they used the bones of the stage are way more solid than I gave them credit. Good job Zike, see you tomorrow!
Sonic Heroes in general feels like it is the physical incarnation of the spirit of Sonic the Hedgehog in general
It really is a good tutorial stage. Sadly, players who choose not to play the easy team or the actual tutorial will then find out that in order to progress farther they must eventually play that easy team which starts players off with that tutorial. That's why I suggest that any completionists or anyone who at least intends to see the true final boss play Team Rose first to get the easy part out of the way so that it's not even easier later.
In my playthrough of the game, I just did the Teams in left-to-right order and I actually think that worked better than going Easy-Normal-Hard-Chaotix. I did the Normal mode first, then after being more familiar with the controls and the stages I tackled Hard mode for an extra challenge, which really kept me on my toes. Then I got to chillax a bit with Easy mode - by this point I was familiar enough with the levels that the run only took around 40 minutes.
I had decided to leave it for the next day after finishing Team Dark but after playing it I realised I could've absolutely just jumped right in, and it would've been a perfect way to cool off after finishing the Hard mode. Either way, it meant that I was more relaxed going into Chaotix (which was nowhere near as difficult or cryptic as I'd heard, but I was pretty nervous going in because of how people usually describe their missions).
That section with all the splitting paths is reminiscent of how the old 2D sonic games approached level design.
Also, I suspect the fact that you have the option to take paths with other formations than the intended one helps it feel like each formation is adding new opportunities for the player, rather than restricting their options.
Two sonic games I know just scream nostalgia to me, Sonic Mega collection and sonic heros. You managed to describe the first level better then I ever could.
I always learn something new from watching your Sonic analysis videos, and I've been playing these games for hours on end. Props to you my good sir!
After all these years i finally found out why there was just a random hole at the "finish line", i actually thought it would kill me for some dumb reason and the many other things i missed when i first played it back then like knuckles' "canons" path and how useful firing one character at time really is.
I actually love the music in seaside hills
It’s pretty relaxing yet feels like I’m listening it on the radio for a morning drive.
Sorta like sonic with his chill attitude.
If there's one thing Sega never half asses it's a game's music. Even '06 has good music for a game that needed a lot more time in the oven. Hell, Heroes needed more time and yet it's still playable
Adventure 2 may be the more polished game and have the AMAZING Chao Garden, but I've always had a soft spot for the sheer amount of personality and attention to detail in Heroes! Not to mention that every level technically functions as multiple levels that each highlight a different aspect of the stage's base design: the traditional Sonic experience with blazing speed and optional exploration for Team Sonic, the more challenging and in-depth Team Dark, the easier and streamlined Team Rose, and all those extra paths to explore getting put to use for Team Chaotix! ...And getting spammed with annoying roadblocks in Super Hard Mode, but y'know
It makes me so sad that Sega's never really revisited teammate switching on the fly like this in another 3D game, it opens up so many possibilities for level design that you just don't get if you have to design a single level multiple characters go through like Adventure or different levels using the same assets like Adventure 2
Sonic Heroes was literally my first ever console game. I love the passion and enthusiasm you put into this video🔥🔥🔥
I love how you mention every little details and secrets. Lol
This is my favourite game ever, so it's nice to see it getting some love!
Re-playing Seaside Hills always feels like I'm coming back to that happy place of my childhood...The music, the aesthetic, the flow and design of this level is just incredible.
While I was never too fond of the level design in Sonic Heroes for the most part, I always considered this one of, if not the best, levels in 3D Sonic
I'm so happy to see you gushing about Sonic Heroes. This was my first Sonic game, and my sister and I used to restart it all the time for the opening cutscenes (thank you, 99 save files - these were the days before UA-cam when you couldn't just look these things up to rewatch them, ya know). We were absolutely in love with the variety that this game allowed - three different playstyles in every level AND four different teams to get completely different ways of experiencing each level. OK, Team Dark and Team Sonic are similar, but Team Rose being structured as easy mode with shorter levels and Team Chaotix being structured as hard mode with completely different missions altogether? That was mind-blowing to a couple of elementary schoolers, and honestly, I feel like it's still something that makes this game unique to this day. I mean, how many games are significantly different in the goals between easy/normal/hard mode beyond just adjusting the difficulty of enemies and surviving? And how many games require the player to beat all of the difficulty levels to get 100% of the story?? It wouldn't feel fair to the player to require hard mode for story purposes if it's just a sliding difficulty scale because some of us (read: me) aren't all that good at playing the game and will rage quit a hard mode where what makes it hard is a restriction on item usage or something like that where you get the same story from easy mode. But in Sonic Heroes, playing Team Chaotix doesn't actually increase enemy strength or decrease the abilities of the characters you're playing. It's hard because it's so vastly different from the other teams. (That's not to say I never rage quit this game, because I played the PS2 version and chasing those Chaos Emeralds...yeah. BUT when I rage quit one save file with everything complete except the Chaos Emeralds and thus Metal Sonic, I always went and started a new file on the next one down because I still had so much fun playing this game.)
Idk I'm gushing now but I really do love this game so much and I'm happy to see it getting the ZoomZike level analysis treatment.
You can actually watch all the games cutscenes in, in the same section as audio test. I used to watch them all the time and listen to the OST
This is just from the first few seconds, but one thing I think the game does wrong are the springs.
As part of that opening scene, it clearly shows you that sonic is speed and his friends follow on either side.
The first spring should show that by being in this formation, you'd get an extra reward as all characters bounce on the three sections.
But I noticed the characters usally only hit 2/3.
It's not a big deal but it's the one thing that isn't seamless for the opening.
Thanks for liking the comment, but I had to edit it for some poor grammar so now it's gone. 🤣
You're good haha
sonic heroes is fun but suddenly rail canyon and casino "i'm falling!" land
I love these videos man, makes me appreciate the stages much more
dunno why you're in my recs but your enthusiasm for this level completely stopped me from looking away, great video
Yes Zoom give Sonic more love. MORE LOVEEEE.
also can't wait for you to get to Egg Fleet and that Haunted Mansion that name escapes me. I love those levels. Super fun to "break"
"It looks sick, so who cares?" Sonic games in a nuteshell
It's also my favorite level in Sonic Generations because they decided to keep the "freedom" from Heroes and let you go through many alternate paths in different ways even though you are limited to just playing as Sonic
That is incredibly free form for a first level. Edit: Also, I think that final cannon was supposed to hint at what each member is all about and that the one you're using controls the cannon. Sonic takes a stylish route that reflects his optimism and attitude, Tails takes the smart and logical route since he's the brains of the operation, and Knuckles analyzes the area to get secrets since he's known at that point for finding unique routes and secrets where others wouldn't. Edit 2: Try analyzing this level for the other characters.
God dang you’re keeping us entertained so much this week
It took me an embarrassingly long time to notice that the final area of this level is a whale-shaped island, just like the ones you can see in the background.
Heroes really is a one of a kind game, wish there were more platformers that attempted a dynamic multi-character system.
Nice level analysis.
I love the "Speed, Power, Fly/Technical" categories that Heroes introduced (and later side games used to classify characters) so much.
I always loved Sonic Heroes as a kid. Everything in this game is very unique and original at the time. The fact that we could play as three characters at once, have great level designs, decent soundtrack, the story that comes full circle like the Adventure games, and it even multiplayer! Playing the game for the first time, I was fascinated by the music and level design of Seaside Hill and became one of the levels that stood out to me and be one of my favorites since.
Finally, zike sonic analysis videos about my favorite game! My life is now good for a good month or so
If you won't let me use you as boxing gloves, I'm sorry. I don't think we can be friends.
What a whirl haha! That’s another one goin on my wishlist after I get colors hahaha!
Lets not forget about the music.
This has always been my favorite Sonic level, and I was so happy to see what they did with it in generations!
Best Sonic game, imo. Great aesthetic, great controls, great OST, great level design, so fast and big, it feels so good to carry your momentum and pull off all the cool niche tricks you learn over the years- level 3 speed formation has tornado effect on jump dashes, always has effect on rocket Accel, you can use tornado to increase elevation by using it next to a wall, it'll sometimes cancel and lift you up, and if you're using Shadow, if the switch is active when you're near a switch-operated pole, the game will treat it as fully extended. Fly has most damage in the game if you get a good angle to trap teamates in enemies at level 3, can absorb rings with level 3 thunder shoot, and you can gain height from certain wall interactions and thunder shoot interactions. Power, knuckles, if you mash attack he can never finish and you can output decent damage if you don't want to end the combo. Fly can't break shields, I don't think, maybe it can break the degrading stone ones, but power can shine for those if you don't have level 3 speed or don't want to switch to it. Also the only thing that hurts armoured robots. The best way of dealing with the strongest hammer dudes is fly, thunder shoot to build your team blast, imo. Maybe you'll get better times with power sometimes, thunder shoot can be unreliable. For any level where results are affected by score, always kill the golden laser guys, they're 10000 points each. Also I've noticed when using attacks, I think it mostly happens when queueing a switch, either knuckles or sonic will adopt fire or tornado attribute. Just me messing around near torches in Mansion. Don't know how useful this can be, maybe you can throw up enemies using a queued sonic if you get your timings right on that pre-dunk move knuckles has?
Bruh....why can I hear the level music even when it's not playing?
Great video! Sonic Heroes was my first Sonic game and Seaside Hill has always had my favourite level aesthetic across the whole series, a wonderful start to a wonderful game.
The stage itself is simply amazing with where you start to where you finish the stage.
This video is genuinely convincing me to play Sonic Heroes, this sort of level design is so damn cool
I really like seeing a video uploaded in 4:3 rather than being given pillar boxes. Loving these Sonic level design analyses.
I absolutely love this game. And your videos! Combining the two are just *chef’s kiss* . Please do more of this game. Keep up the great work!
As much as people choose sides with modern or classic sonic. I feel there’s no game that combines the two styles better than heroes. If you told me that this game was sonic 3& knuckles 3D then I’d 100% believe you.
2:34 "I'm gonna, use you guys as boxing gloves, shift, rock, yeah!" 🎶
I just started rewatching the IL videos and now I see that June is some ZoomZike Mecca month. I’m here for it.
I’m so glad I found this channel, excellent video and quality
Finally someone points out the great level design sonic heroes has and how it complements so well with the main hero mechanics
A reason I love Sonic Heroes is the unique gameplay that no other game used up to this point. I never seen any Heroes-inspired games with that team/formation gimmick
Id like to see you tackle one of these missions in team rose perspective, Specifically casino park, since if your really determined, you can do a huge jump and play a huge part of the level that should normally be inaccessable to them.
Okay this vídeo was fire and i hope you simply cover the other levels eventually, because you got talent
Yup! Seaside hill has some of the best level design I have ever played.
Great video!
This is why I love playing Sonic Heroes. There's so many playstyles and alternate paths in this game to choose from. With all of them having different animations too. I really do miss it when Sonic games gave us this many choices to beat a level.
7:51 Except the Game Grumps never learned how to use the cannon 😆 Especially when using power-type…
They're an exception to all things game design haha
I love how this is a perfect tutorial stage yet Arin from game grumps never understood how cannons work
My favorite sonic game.
Great analysis, friend!
This video is a nostalgic trip down memory lane , and I enjoyed every second of it
Never really thought about how much depth this stage has.
the level design on adventure, adventure 2 and heroes proves that sonic had a GOOD transition to 3D, unlike what the internet tells you
I have learned more about the controls of Sonic Heroes from this one video than from over a decade of playing it...
Heroes’ Levels make it feel like a Grand and Fun adventure. They’re so Lively and Colorful. The Bombastic Music and Banter between Characters adds so much personality. I wish I could play this game myself.
Fantastic Video! You always do a great job describing stage design and other cool details!
Thank you so much for analyzing so well!!!
I knew this was coming eventually! I even called it before in one of your previous videos (the Cosmic Wall one). This video was awesome, just like all of your previous ones!
Did you know that, during the cooldown after using Sonic Overdrive, you can do the Lightspeed Attack in place of the Blue Tornado?
I used to spam this like fuck when i found out 😂
Yeah, Seaside Hill is a cool level. Glad seeing Sonic Heroes getting some love.
Sonic Heroes? Nice. While far from my favorite 3D Sonic game, I can't deny that it's got some pretty good level design and aesthetics that harken back to the Genesis games more than the Adventure games did.
Keep reviewing the levels, I love this 🙏🏼
“SHIT ROCK YEAH”
-Knuckles the Echidna, 2003
One thing I noticed is that that first checkpoint is very deliberately placed to level up knuckles, so when you come to the combat section, you have his full combo when you mash attack, ensuring the player knows it exists even if they don’t quite get that you have to level to get the finisher yet.
Your wording at the beginning made it sound like you were calling the first level soulless, at least that was the impression I had, which was why I felt completely utterly confused for like the entire first minute of the video, lol.
Boi oh boi! These zone videos are great, i tell you what! Hey, Zike, I was wondering. Could you maybe do a zone cartography video, just connecting different zones together based off theme, structure and lore? If that's within your forte, of course. I just never seen anybody really go over that aspect before. I'm not even sure if there's enough substance like that in Sonic's lore to make such a topic but It'd be really cool if someone did it anyway and i think you're the man for the job, bro! :)
The music in seaside hill is undeniably one of the best if not the best Sonic theme
Let’s gooo love these vids. You should make a sonic level retrospective playlist
I remember when I was a kid, all the kids at school were mixed on Sonic Heroes, calling it bad just because of the 3 controllable characters swapping out on the fly was different from any other sonic game, but I always felt it to be unique and the game does a good job of making you utilize all three characters, often giving you the choice of how you want to approach things.
If Sega never gives us Sonic Adventure 3, Sonic Heroes 2 would honestly be the next best thing.
Fun fact.
The levels was made by two guys at first until one if them got sick and was left to one person rush and finish it on his own.
Poor guy missed out on a lot if games that came out that year.
Jesus, I seriously underestimated how perfect the original Seaside Hill is besides its Generations peak level design incarnation
This is the Green Hill of stages more used of all Franchise.
This is so well made and was my first 3D Sonic game i have ever experienced in my childhood
Even attempted to complete the stage without changing characters and in my knowledge, the three can complete it without using the power of teamwork. I have a video explainging it
I fucking love your videos and your voice, bro!!