We take Islam from its true sources: the Quran and the Sunnah. The Quran is the holy book, and the Sunnah includes the authentic sayings of the Prophet (Hadith) and his noble biography (Seerah). Anyone who contradicts what is found in the Quran and Sunnah or introduces something not established by the Prophet ﷺ and his companions falls into innovation (Bid’ah). The Prophet ﷺ said: "I have left with you that which, if you hold on to it, you will never go astray: the Book of Allah and my Sunnah." He also said: "Every innovation is a misguidance, and every misguidance leads to the Fire." This is the straight path, and whoever adheres to it will be rightly guided, while those who deviate from it fall into misguidance.
Muhammad ibn 'Abd Allah (PBUH) is the one who proclaimed himself as a Prophet and brought forth a religion called Islam. And this Islam is the only monotheistic religion on the face of the earth! No other religion upholds the pure monotheism that all the Prophets called for-the monotheism of al-fitrah (the natural human disposition)-except for Islam! All other religions have been influenced by some form of polytheism, whether small or large! No religion has maintained true monotheism and total submission to Allah alone, except this one! Now, this Prophet (PBUH) also brought a book called the Qur'ān. This book contains knowledge, laws, guidance, self-purification, stories of the ancients, parables, exhortations, commands, and prohibitions-all conveyed in a literary style that the Arabs had never encountered before! He challenged them to produce something like it, but they failed! The level of rhetorical beauty in the Qur'ān is nothing short of miraculous! Furthermore, this Prophet was supported by Allah, and his mission was victorious. His message reached lands and empires the Arabs could never have dreamed of conquering. The Companions of the Prophet (PBUH) conquered Persia, the Levant, Iraq, and the Byzantine Roman Empire. What does this indicate? Not only that, but this Prophet (PBUH) did not die until he had completed the Shariah (Islamic law)! He passed away just days after the revelation of the verse from Allah: "Today I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favor upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion." (Qur'ān 5:3) The religion was completed, perfected, and shortly after, Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) passed away, having fulfilled his mission. Now, here is the point: The coming of this Prophet, Muhammad ibn 'Abd Allah (PBUH), was prophesied thousands of years before his birth! For example, in the Book of Daniel 7, it mentions that there would be four great kingdoms: Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome. And at the time of the fourth kingdom, the nation of the saints of the Most High would emerge! This nation would defeat the four kingdoms and restore monotheism to Jerusalem. This was mentioned long before Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) came! Daniel (PBUH) also prophesied that the emergence of this nation would take place 350 years after Constantine the Great, who was also prophesied in the same book! Constantine appeared around 300 AD, and adding 350 years brings us to approximately 650 AD, which is the time when the monotheistic Muslim forces entered Jerusalem under the caliphate of 'Umar ibn al-Khaṭṭāb (may Allah be pleased with him). This was the first time since the time of Daniel (PBUH) that Jerusalem was ruled by a monotheistic nation! This prophecy is remarkable! 'Abd al-'Aḥad Dāwūd, a former priest of Urmia, said about this prophecy: "The most wonderful, and perhaps the most manifest prophecy about the divine mission of the greatest man and the Messenger of God (PBUH)!" He later embraced Islam after recognizing the truth of this prophecy. The prophecy also foretold that this nation would conquer Constantine’s land, Constantinople itself! What more could one ask for?! There are countless prophecies like this! In fact, there is a text in their scriptures stating that the end-time Prophet would appear 1750 years after the death of Moses (PBUH), which aligns exactly with the time of the mission of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). This is why the Jews of Muhammad's time used to say: "The time of the last Prophet has come, and he will soon appear." Additionally, Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was known for his honesty, and this is crucial! Anyone who claims to be a Prophet must either be the most honest person in the world or the most dishonest. A Prophet claiming divine revelations would have to be constantly truthful or a compulsive liar, spreading lies about receiving divine commands every moment. But Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was known for his impeccable truthfulness. If you want to accuse him of lying, you need to offer a complete theory that explains all the evidence of his prophethood: the prophecies, the miracles, the divine support, and the knowledge in the Qur'ān. If he wasn't a Prophet, how did all this happen? How did prophecies foretell his coming thousands of years before his birth? How could miracles happen at the hands of a liar? Why did the Companions believe in him so deeply that they were willing to sacrifice their lives for him? This doesn’t make sense unless he was truly a Prophet. Now, let’s consider the possibility that he was a sorcerer. This is an incomplete theory as well. It fails to account for the prophecies, the infallibility of the Qur'ān, and the call to pure monotheism. The polytheists accused him of sorcery simply because they couldn’t understand where he was getting his knowledge from. They were unable to trace its source, so they resorted to accusing him of magic. But this accusation only proves their inability to comprehend the truth. The bottom line is: Think for yourself! If Muhammad (PBUH) was not a Prophet, then how did all this happen? His prophecies, miracles, divine support, and the completion of his mission-it is a puzzle that cannot be solved by any theory other than the one that acknowledges him as the true Prophet of God. There is no other explanation that fits all the facts.
Last episode “I fear for my life talking about Islam. Also I don’t know enough Islam” next episode proceeds to give opinions about Islam. And seriously people always giving us this bad violent name. Muslims welcome critical questions and challenging if it is respectful cause educated muslims have all the answers and proof. If it’s internet trolls which made u feel this fright, that is all rubbish
Because his engaged with some Muslim scholars before and they were hostile, verbally abusive like the religion teaches them to be to non believers @@BanAaron
@@mohammedhanif6780 don't think i am. In short, belief isn't knowledge. While mainstream religion is basically just beliefs, if i understand correctly mysticism deals with actual experience/knowledge of God/reality. Not saying i have this knowledge or anything. I'm agnostic tending towards believer
My god, the amount of new content on the internet featuring Alex is insane! I would say keep it up, but please don't burn yourself out man! Thank you for all of the immensely thought provoking conversations
Yes! More scholars who are knowledgeable in Non-Abrahamic/Eastern philosophies please. There is an absolute lack of those perspectives in these discussions. A discussion of Advaita Vedanta or other Vedantic thoughts perhaps? Or discussions about the development of Buddhism, Jainism and other heterodox sects. Let'sTalkReligion has done a great job in exploring these areas. Since you already have him on the channel, why not utilize him properly!
would be great to see Alex do more stuff on Islam, engaging with Islamic polemics especially these days where it's so prevalent (at least where I'm from) would be interesting to watch! anyways, great vid
Criticism isn’t a practice they’re accustomed to in Islam. When I was a Muslim, the only thing repeatedly drilled into my mind was that it was a perfect religion, one of love and peace.. i never heard any critisicm, and as soon as i did, it was clear there was absolutely nothing divine about it .. I think the conversation would either not last very long or turn into an unbearable display of fallacies and a complete inability to respond to any questions. This is because Sunni texts (Quran + hadiths) are, how can I put it, particularily horrible.
I’m sorry to hear of your experience. I am a Sunni Muslim, with degrees in Philosophy and Political Theory, and I’m constantly experiencing critical reflections on our faith, be they in academic settings or in local mosques. Especially now in the online da’wah age, Muslims are constantly engaged in debating their worldview. Yet as mentioned, I’m not here to belittle your experience. I’m sure there are Muslims who aren’t very charitable, but you’ll run across that in any community; generalisations aren’t helpful to overcome that. As for our primary sources being ‘horrible’, safe to say I disagree, but I’d be happy for Alex to challenge one of our representatives on the reliability of the Qur’an+Ahadith.
@dri-fit9712 Good to know there's you people like you who value skepticism, but do you really think mainstream muslim thinkers like muhammad hijab would be willing to sit down and have an honest and civilized discussion like this?
Thank you Alex for covering a topic related to Islam. I understand it can be dangerous to discuss in these times but I applaud you for making videos about it.
We take Islam from its true sources: the Quran and the Sunnah. The Quran is the holy book, and the Sunnah includes the authentic sayings of the Prophet (Hadith) and his noble biography (Seerah). Anyone who contradicts what is found in the Quran and Sunnah or introduces something not established by the Prophet ﷺ and his companions falls into innovation (Bid’ah). The Prophet ﷺ said: "I have left with you that which, if you hold on to it, you will never go astray: the Book of Allah and my Sunnah." He also said: "Every innovation is a misguidance, and every misguidance leads to the Fire." This is the straight path, and whoever adheres to it will be rightly guided, while those who deviate from it fall into misguidance.
@@Abdelrhman20SJews, Atheists and Christians alike all agree the Bible has not been corrupted, you can read what the Bible said EXACTLY like 200 years before Muhammad was born in the Codex Sanaiticus. It literally says the same thing, your whole religion is built off a con artist. The Quran says it CONFIRMS previous scripture, yet in the first 6 pages it claims the punishment for sin isn’t even death, that’s Judaism/Christianty 101, your “prophet” even got the basics wrong
@@azmainfaiak8111Hooooo boy, you did it now. Get ready for the Muslim apologists to start doing backflips trying to convince you about how all of the poetic language in the Quran are actually deep scientific truths. "Umm, ackshually, when the Quran says the universe was created, that's basically the entire big bang model of cosmology"
I really like this guy! His videos taught me I should be more precise in my critique, and that understanding what other people believe is a worthwhile pursuit for many different reasons.
Saw someone recommend Swami Sarvapriyananda as a guest and i couldn't agree more! Would love to see him on your show for a talk on Advaita Vedanta or Hinduism in general.
I’ve listened to a lot of this guy’s videos and he is a very humble seeker who has deep respect for all spiritual paths. Great having him on your channel Alex. The one thing that all Muslims, including your guest, miss or conveniently leave out, is that sup, or Islamic mysticism, came from the foundations of Zoroastrianism. When the Islamic armies went east from Arabia through the Middle East into Iran, etc. by the time they entered Persia, the Zoroastrian priest (Magi) cleaned out the fire temples and accepted Islam. The proof is in the historical documentation, showing that the major religion of the Indus valley, Afghanistan, Iran, Pakistan, etc. was Zoroastrianism which many would say was the first monotheistic religion. So it was easy for them to accept Islam as Islam is a pure monotheistic religion. As a matter of fact, Mysticism within all of the monotheistic religions are completely tied in to Zoroastrianism, combined with the direct experience, which usually is accomplished through plant medicines just as was done in the earliest civilizations in Al Khemet (old kingdom, Egypt), Mesopotamia /Sumer, and Aryana (Middle East/ Indus Valley). The origins of mysticism and shamanism and human history leading into spiritual paths, a.k.a. religions something I have studied for over 30 years and would love to speak to you about 🙏🏼
@ you’re thinking of speakers corner. That’s true, but the threats that people receive for discussing Islam are obviously far worse for public figures. People shouldn’t have to fear for their lives for questioning a religion. As a Christian and an ex atheist, I love Alex’ work. I would never threaten someone because they disagreed with me
@@mohammedhanif6780 cutting off the hand of a thief, beating your wife if you fear her disobedience, the possibility of marrying a child/minor, killing an apostate, inheritance divided unequally depending on whether you’re a man or a woman, the possibility of having slaves and sexual slaves, or the ability to sleep with a married woman if she’s your slave, Forcing disbelievers to pay a tax if they don't get in your religion, to not take a disbeliever as an ally, leave any sitting where religion is being criticized or mocked .. loong list Yeah probably not in the way he thinks, not even in the way the majority of muslims today think, because it's much more radical than you can imagine .. the majority of people do not know the texts, and that's why religious authority is still holding its ground in my home country.
Good to see that you are exploring Sufism. I recommend Abdul Hakim Murad (Tim Winter) asa guest as well as William Chittick and Hossein Nasr to go deeper.
Growing up in the Catholic school, there were things you could ask and there were things you could not, because asking the wrong thing could lead to some kind of penance. When I was twelve years old or so, the word mysticism came up from one of the older boys, and he said I should ask the monsignor. When I did, I remember him looking down at me as if I had been put up to a prank. He, seemingly lost for words and acting as if he was tired of being asked, let out a hopeless sounding "It's a mystery" and walked away. Happily, there were no penances.
That’s an interesting response, because there is an immensely rich mystical tradition in Catholicism. All the contemplative monastic orders, and individual mystics like St John of the Cross, Pseudo Dionysius the Areopagite, the anonymous author of the “Cloud of Unknowing”. Heck, even the titan of Catholic theology, Thomas Aquinas, has mystical elements in his work.
@@Dhavroch There are definitely other sides to Christianity which I don't think this channel, or much of the community in general, has explored. +1 to St. John of the Cross. The saints will tell you all about mystical experiences, but in this space of intellectual debate, it's all about logic and arguments.
I've been waiting on this one since you mentioned Filip on the podcast with Andrew from ReligionForBreakfast. Now all I need is a full crossover with you 3 plus Esoterica and Bart Ehrman
Just started watching, I love Filip, as far as videos delving into religion on UA-cam, ive watched more of his than the rest that ive watched combined. Super learned guy. If youre reading this, thank you! Secondly, just had to comment on the fact that Filip used hyperrational to describe mystic sight, almost exactly the same way Bishop Barron described faith as supra rational. On the far side of reason, at the horizon of human perception and intellect. Good stuff already 👍
1:11:27 As a persian who reads sufi poetry on daily basis: answering to this question is a bit complicated but... In most cases, "Wine" (Mey in persian and Khamr in Arabic) has been used as a metaphore for love's intoxination and "selfless" condition of the lover. Sometimes as Philips rightly pointed out it was used for provoking, and even critisizing religious dogma. Forexample, Sanāī Ghaznavi, Hafez, Attar and others have criticized religious "authorities" for thier hypocrosy protraying "the homeless intoxinated" persons as good guys of society and the religious (false) piets as bad guys! (It's hard to explain it to a western audience🤦🤦🤦 while those poets themselves were mostly extremely religious. Excuse me for bad english.
Sunni Sufi Muslim here. I believe in strong adherence to shariah etc. yet I must say Salafis have this hilarious inability to contextualise Islamic texts it's become a meme/insider joke among other sunni Muslims. Salafis will even consider it 'innovation' and thus a wretched practice for someone write poetry to God. There's no reasoning with these guys, they usually experience the 'Salafi burnout' eventually. The important thing to consider is that Sufi forms of worship that we commonly think of when we think of the term, are not canonical aspects of worship nor are they a replacement for mandatory prayers, but they are a way of connecting to God - it falls under the Dhikr category (remembrance of God). The only gripe would be to avoid structures where everyone is singing and there's an Imam in the middle as it *looks like* reverence of the Imam.
Strong adherence to Sharia? As in cutting off the hand of a thief, beating your wife if you fear her disobedience, the possibility of marrying a child/minor, killing an apostate, inheritance divided unequally depending on whether you’re a man or a woman, the possibility of having slaves and sexual slaves, or the ability to sleep with a married woman if she’s your slave? I was a Sunni Muslim before. These are a few excerpts of Sharia law I’m familiar with. Is it different in Sufi Islam?
How gracious of you to visit an atheist’s comment section to talk smack about your fellow Muslims. Yet then you’ll turn around and accuse salafis of sectarianism lol
@@dri-fit9712 Salafis are trying to protect tradition which I appreciate and respect, but they go overboard and it deserves to be criticised especially when they bring a bullying attitude. Forget mere sectarianism, Salafis takfir other regular Sunnis more than any other 'sect' takfirs another.
For the case of Al Hallaj (which was a persian like me), he seemingly stated that when he says "I am the truth", Divine consiousness is speaking through him; and he actually gives an example for such an experience: the story of Moses and fiery tree/bush near mount Sinai where the fiery tree says to Moses: I am your God! Here the tree is not refering to itself but the divine is speaking through it. The idea is at the peak of spiritual experience one may unite with the divine as such (not unity in essence but united in consiousness or sth like that).
I really like Philip and his videos, but I believe that this conversation is an example of how the academic approach can get in the way or understanding rather than facilitating it in some cases. I see that Philip is very conscious of nuances and counter-examples to common understanding. This is great to go into with people already familiar with the subject at hand, but for introducing a subject to a new audience, I believe it causes the plot to be lost a little bit. I think the introduction of mysticism in Islam and Sufism would be much better served by assuming a core narrative and representing it, sacrificing the nuances in favor of a big picture view. Not to lose the forest for the trees so to speak. Specifically in the case of Sufism, I was hoping that a taste of the tradition would be transmitted to the viewer rather than an overview of the academic view. Perhaps another discussion is in order with a Sufi practitioner to cover the topic from an experiential angle which I believe Alex is more and more interested in. I think it would be amazing to interview someone who makes sense of the world through a Sufi perspective and question them on theology, critiques of Islam, view of other religions, etc.
Hey Alex. Been an observer of your podcast for a long long time.Sufism is one of very few sects of Islam I seem to appreciate. The music and swirling dervishes are intoxicating for me. May I offer a suggestion? Might you see yourself as more of a Huston Smith trailblazer? We need a 21st century thoughtful person like yourself to expose/articulate the faith from an agnostic perspective. Please respond. I would appreciate your thoughts. I am an agnostic Buddhist.Which negates the very essence of Buddhism by defining oneself.
I find mysticism fascinating. Vladimir Lossky's 'The Mystical Theology of The Eastern Church' is a wonderful book I discovered when converting to Eastern Orthodox Christianity.
God in islam is indeed unlike his creation and beyond the confinement of space and time. Yet, closer to each one of us than our jugular vein in terms of seeing, hearing and all encompassing knowledge, even of our inner thoughts. It's a pretty simple concept to comprehend.
I think there's actually a relatively simple reason why there are less Shia Sufis: if you believe your Sheikh is the Qutb, the perfect man who stands at the top of the human hierarchy before God, then that is a threat to the authority of the Imam. Afaik the leaders of Shia orders generally didn't claim to be Qutbs but rather representatives of the Imam, but were still seen as a threat by religious and secular Shia leaders.
1:00:58 this is incorrect, the sort of anti religious-community phase of the government has phased out a while ago and as long as you don't associate with reigious communities closely related to terrorist groups you are completely free to do whatever you want. It was forbidden in the first place due to religious communities usually being parallel with radical political groups who engaged in political violence, so it wasn't a secularism issue.
"For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know Him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe."
If you'd like to have a more in-depth conversation about Sufism and Mysticism in Islam, please try to bring Abdul Karim Soroush to your Show. He is a practicing Mystic and is well-versed in Islamic traditions.
Prophet Mohammed didn't go against musics and songs. First the Quran is wrote in a poetery way, and prophet Mohammed was welcomed in Madina by songs and drums..actually prophet Mohammed liked that
@@akramelmansouri6752your desires are nothing but short time amusment and delusion. We all worship something and you are just choosing your own feelings
Alex please do a podcast on neoplatanism next with dr Justin sledge and Filip homes please please please please please please please please please please please
I'm an ex-muslim, but i just learn about sufism and wish to learn more about it. I'm surprised that just as i got interested in it, Alex talks about this topic. Got goosebumps as soon as i saw the notification😅😂
Loving this.. I got to refocus on Ibn Arabi's unity of being. This was through my efforts on step 3 of Codependents Anonymous. Knowing my self through the attributes of God.
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I enjoyed your evisceration of Cliffe on your live debate and his odd appeal that agnosticism is both impossible for you and humble for him lol.
You should have Hasan Spiker on your show
We take Islam from its true sources: the Quran and the Sunnah. The Quran is the holy book, and the Sunnah includes the authentic sayings of the Prophet (Hadith) and his noble biography (Seerah). Anyone who contradicts what is found in the Quran and Sunnah or introduces something not established by the Prophet ﷺ and his companions falls into innovation (Bid’ah).
The Prophet ﷺ said: "I have left with you that which, if you hold on to it, you will never go astray: the Book of Allah and my Sunnah."
He also said: "Every innovation is a misguidance, and every misguidance leads to the Fire."
This is the straight path, and whoever adheres to it will be rightly guided, while those who deviate from it fall into misguidance.
Muhammad ibn 'Abd Allah (PBUH) is the one who proclaimed himself as a Prophet and brought forth a religion called Islam. And this Islam is the only monotheistic religion on the face of the earth! No other religion upholds the pure monotheism that all the Prophets called for-the monotheism of al-fitrah (the natural human disposition)-except for Islam! All other religions have been influenced by some form of polytheism, whether small or large! No religion has maintained true monotheism and total submission to Allah alone, except this one!
Now, this Prophet (PBUH) also brought a book called the Qur'ān. This book contains knowledge, laws, guidance, self-purification, stories of the ancients, parables, exhortations, commands, and prohibitions-all conveyed in a literary style that the Arabs had never encountered before! He challenged them to produce something like it, but they failed! The level of rhetorical beauty in the Qur'ān is nothing short of miraculous!
Furthermore, this Prophet was supported by Allah, and his mission was victorious. His message reached lands and empires the Arabs could never have dreamed of conquering. The Companions of the Prophet (PBUH) conquered Persia, the Levant, Iraq, and the Byzantine Roman Empire. What does this indicate?
Not only that, but this Prophet (PBUH) did not die until he had completed the Shariah (Islamic law)! He passed away just days after the revelation of the verse from Allah:
"Today I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favor upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion." (Qur'ān 5:3)
The religion was completed, perfected, and shortly after, Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) passed away, having fulfilled his mission.
Now, here is the point:
The coming of this Prophet, Muhammad ibn 'Abd Allah (PBUH), was prophesied thousands of years before his birth!
For example, in the Book of Daniel 7, it mentions that there would be four great kingdoms: Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome. And at the time of the fourth kingdom, the nation of the saints of the Most High would emerge! This nation would defeat the four kingdoms and restore monotheism to Jerusalem. This was mentioned long before Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) came!
Daniel (PBUH) also prophesied that the emergence of this nation would take place 350 years after Constantine the Great, who was also prophesied in the same book! Constantine appeared around 300 AD, and adding 350 years brings us to approximately 650 AD, which is the time when the monotheistic Muslim forces entered Jerusalem under the caliphate of 'Umar ibn al-Khaṭṭāb (may Allah be pleased with him). This was the first time since the time of Daniel (PBUH) that Jerusalem was ruled by a monotheistic nation! This prophecy is remarkable!
'Abd al-'Aḥad Dāwūd, a former priest of Urmia, said about this prophecy:
"The most wonderful, and perhaps the most manifest prophecy about the divine mission of the greatest man and the Messenger of God (PBUH)!"
He later embraced Islam after recognizing the truth of this prophecy.
The prophecy also foretold that this nation would conquer Constantine’s land, Constantinople itself! What more could one ask for?! There are countless prophecies like this!
In fact, there is a text in their scriptures stating that the end-time Prophet would appear 1750 years after the death of Moses (PBUH), which aligns exactly with the time of the mission of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). This is why the Jews of Muhammad's time used to say:
"The time of the last Prophet has come, and he will soon appear."
Additionally, Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was known for his honesty, and this is crucial! Anyone who claims to be a Prophet must either be the most honest person in the world or the most dishonest. A Prophet claiming divine revelations would have to be constantly truthful or a compulsive liar, spreading lies about receiving divine commands every moment. But Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was known for his impeccable truthfulness.
If you want to accuse him of lying, you need to offer a complete theory that explains all the evidence of his prophethood: the prophecies, the miracles, the divine support, and the knowledge in the Qur'ān. If he wasn't a Prophet, how did all this happen? How did prophecies foretell his coming thousands of years before his birth? How could miracles happen at the hands of a liar? Why did the Companions believe in him so deeply that they were willing to sacrifice their lives for him? This doesn’t make sense unless he was truly a Prophet.
Now, let’s consider the possibility that he was a sorcerer. This is an incomplete theory as well. It fails to account for the prophecies, the infallibility of the Qur'ān, and the call to pure monotheism. The polytheists accused him of sorcery simply because they couldn’t understand where he was getting his knowledge from. They were unable to trace its source, so they resorted to accusing him of magic. But this accusation only proves their inability to comprehend the truth.
The bottom line is:
Think for yourself!
If Muhammad (PBUH) was not a Prophet, then how did all this happen? His prophecies, miracles, divine support, and the completion of his mission-it is a puzzle that cannot be solved by any theory other than the one that acknowledges him as the true Prophet of God.
There is no other explanation that fits all the facts.
Last episode “I fear for my life talking about Islam. Also I don’t know enough Islam” next episode proceeds to give opinions about Islam. And seriously people always giving us this bad violent name. Muslims welcome critical questions and challenging if it is respectful cause educated muslims have all the answers and proof. If it’s internet trolls which made u feel this fright, that is all rubbish
Thanks for having me on Alex! Greatly enjoyed the conversation!
I can't believe my two favourite youtubers are collabing. What a great day to have eyes and ears
@@BanAaron same thought!
If you can't see ISALM is a copy and Paste from Christiaty maybe your in the wrong field 😂
what a cross over
Because his engaged with some Muslim scholars before and they were hostile, verbally abusive like the religion teaches them to be to non believers @@BanAaron
Alex dropped this on a Friday evening. It'll be a slow night in the clubs of England tonight.
Just fot back from one. You can tell by the typing.
Oh hell yes Sufism on the show finally!
Can we get Swami Sarvapriyanada on next for Advaita Vedanta?
I second this! 👋
Would love Alex to delve more into other religions and more mysticism bc dogmatic believers prolly know nothing about their God
@@CamouflageMaster Facts. Mystical religions and organizations have taught me more about Christ and God than Christianity has
@@CamouflageMaster stop stereotyping
@@mohammedhanif6780 don't think i am. In short, belief isn't knowledge. While mainstream religion is basically just beliefs, if i understand correctly mysticism deals with actual experience/knowledge of God/reality. Not saying i have this knowledge or anything. I'm agnostic tending towards believer
Filip's channel is awesome, so glad you got him on!
Finally videos on Islam. Do more Alex!
As a Sufi & Swedish who follows both of you, i really enjoyed this intellectual conversation and the deep ideas you of being you talked about here.
You mean swedistan. Trump will remove all the migrants.
My god, the amount of new content on the internet featuring Alex is insane! I would say keep it up, but please don't burn yourself out man! Thank you for all of the immensely thought provoking conversations
I'm a philosophy student and these two are my two favourite UA-camrs this is a dream come true
It was just a matter of time for Let'sTalkReligion to make an appearance here. Excited to watch this episode!
Great timing, Alex. I just bought my first collection of poems by Rumi & then you go and release this little doozy!
I enjoy and have learned a lot from Filip's work and content, as I have yours, Alex. Glad to see this dialogue and cross over happening.
Time to give the Christians a breather😭
This guy he has on is a Christian, Alex doesn’t seem to engage with actual traditional Muslim scholars for some reason
@@cloroxbleach6344”for some reason” i can think of a few reasons.
@@cloroxbleach6344
Maybe he doesn't know much about Islam.
@@cloroxbleach6344You can find his debate with Mohammed Hijab posted on this channel 4 years ago. See how that went...
@cloroxbleach6344 is he Christian? Fairly sure I remember him saying he used to be Christian.
Yes! More scholars who are knowledgeable in Non-Abrahamic/Eastern philosophies please. There is an absolute lack of those perspectives in these discussions. A discussion of Advaita Vedanta or other Vedantic thoughts perhaps? Or discussions about the development of Buddhism, Jainism and other heterodox sects. Let'sTalkReligion has done a great job in exploring these areas. Since you already have him on the channel, why not utilize him properly!
Islam/sufism are Abrahamic. Abraham is a central prophet of Islam.
And contemporary paganism like heathenry, kemeticism, Wicca, etc
I agree, but I’d like to see more practitioners of eastern religion rather than just academics.
Actually this is a rare case of Abrahamic mysticism. But yes mystical traditions tend to interestingly be similar to the Eastern philosophies.
I agree but Islam is Abrahamic
would be great to see Alex do more stuff on Islam, engaging with Islamic polemics especially these days where it's so prevalent (at least where I'm from) would be interesting to watch! anyways, great vid
Would be cool to have an Orthodox Muslim on at some point, we’ve seen Within Reason with hardline Christians, but not with Muslims.
Criticism isn’t a practice they’re accustomed to in Islam. When I was a Muslim, the only thing repeatedly drilled into my mind was that it was a perfect religion, one of love and peace.. i never heard any critisicm, and as soon as i did, it was clear there was absolutely nothing divine about it .. I think the conversation would either not last very long or turn into an unbearable display of fallacies and a complete inability to respond to any questions. This is because Sunni texts (Quran + hadiths) are, how can I put it, particularily horrible.
@@akramelmansouri6752I second that… talking to a wahabi would be like talking to a wall.
I’m sorry to hear of your experience. I am a Sunni Muslim, with degrees in Philosophy and Political Theory, and I’m constantly experiencing critical reflections on our faith, be they in academic settings or in local mosques. Especially now in the online da’wah age, Muslims are constantly engaged in debating their worldview.
Yet as mentioned, I’m not here to belittle your experience. I’m sure there are Muslims who aren’t very charitable, but you’ll run across that in any community; generalisations aren’t helpful to overcome that.
As for our primary sources being ‘horrible’, safe to say I disagree, but I’d be happy for Alex to challenge one of our representatives on the reliability of the Qur’an+Ahadith.
@dri-fit9712 Good to know there's you people like you who value skepticism, but do you really think mainstream muslim thinkers like muhammad hijab would be willing to sit down and have an honest and civilized discussion like this?
@@dri-fit9712maybe you could debate him
Was not expecting this one but so glad two of my favorite UA-camrs are collabing
Thank you Alex for covering a topic related to Islam. I understand it can be dangerous to discuss in these times but I applaud you for making videos about it.
We take Islam from its true sources: the Quran and the Sunnah. The Quran is the holy book, and the Sunnah includes the authentic sayings of the Prophet (Hadith) and his noble biography (Seerah). Anyone who contradicts what is found in the Quran and Sunnah or introduces something not established by the Prophet ﷺ and his companions falls into innovation (Bid’ah).
The Prophet ﷺ said: "I have left with you that which, if you hold on to it, you will never go astray: the Book of Allah and my Sunnah."
He also said: "Every innovation is a misguidance, and every misguidance leads to the Fire."
This is the straight path, and whoever adheres to it will be rightly guided, while those who deviate from it fall into misguidance.
@@Abdelrhman20SJews, Atheists and Christians alike all agree the Bible has not been corrupted, you can read what the Bible said EXACTLY like 200 years before Muhammad was born in the Codex Sanaiticus. It literally says the same thing, your whole religion is built off a con artist. The Quran says it CONFIRMS previous scripture, yet in the first 6 pages it claims the punishment for sin isn’t even death, that’s Judaism/Christianty 101, your “prophet” even got the basics wrong
@@Abdelrhman20Sok boomer
@@Abdelrhman20Swhy is Quran so full of scientifically wrong claims?
@@azmainfaiak8111Hooooo boy, you did it now. Get ready for the Muslim apologists to start doing backflips trying to convince you about how all of the poetic language in the Quran are actually deep scientific truths. "Umm, ackshually, when the Quran says the universe was created, that's basically the entire big bang model of cosmology"
I really like this guy! His videos taught me I should be more precise in my critique, and that understanding what other people believe is a worthwhile pursuit for many different reasons.
I think you two are twins in: Demeanor, tonality, sincere approach and intellectual honesty.
Your energies and "vibes" completely match.
This made a great Friday evening with Sufism and tea. Thank you.
Awesome episode! Filip Holm also does a great episode on the Baha'i Faith.
2 of my favorite youtubers having a conversation, delightful!
I think you teased this collab like 6 months ago. Glad it finally happened ❤️🔥
Omg the collab I always wanted!!!! Lets talk religion is one of the best channels out there. Thank you!
This is coming from a muslim btw ❤
I'm a Christian but I was very happy to see this video on my feed. Intellectual conversations about the details on other religions is needed.
Absolutely 😊
As an atheist the more I know about my enemies the better. 🥰
These are my two favorite creators in the same video, perfect lol
I actually yelled in excitement when i saw this i love philips channel hes the best
Thank you both for this.
That was truly delightful.
Again, i've learned a lot, which will resonate for a while. I'm deeply touched.
Saw someone recommend Swami Sarvapriyananda as a guest and i couldn't agree more! Would love to see him on your show for a talk on Advaita Vedanta or Hinduism in general.
As a Muslim, I never expected this conversation. It just made my day 😂
Same I wish Alex does more
@@CrescentCrusader99 yea, it would nice if he could invite more Muslim intellectuals.
Yea really cool to see
yes, finaly the video i have been waitng for, this is great
I’ve listened to a lot of this guy’s videos and he is a very humble seeker who has deep respect for all spiritual paths. Great having him on your channel Alex.
The one thing that all Muslims, including your guest, miss or conveniently leave out, is that sup, or Islamic mysticism, came from the foundations of Zoroastrianism.
When the Islamic armies went east from Arabia through the Middle East into Iran, etc. by the time they entered Persia, the Zoroastrian priest (Magi) cleaned out the fire temples and accepted Islam.
The proof is in the historical documentation, showing that the major religion of the Indus valley, Afghanistan, Iran, Pakistan, etc. was Zoroastrianism which many would say was the first monotheistic religion. So it was easy for them to accept Islam as Islam is a pure monotheistic religion.
As a matter of fact, Mysticism within all of the monotheistic religions are completely tied in to Zoroastrianism, combined with the direct experience, which usually is accomplished through plant medicines just as was done in the earliest civilizations in Al Khemet (old kingdom, Egypt), Mesopotamia /Sumer, and Aryana (Middle East/ Indus Valley).
The origins of mysticism and shamanism and human history leading into spiritual paths, a.k.a. religions something I have studied for over 30 years and would love to speak to you about 🙏🏼
Have a sufi sheikh on plz. It's gonna be interested
He should have hasan Spiker on
I've been hoping to explore this branch of mysticism more. Thanks Alex and Filip!
Another rare Islam video, awesome!
As a Sufi, I'm amazed Alex can give a crash course on God's transcendence versus immanence.
what silsila or tariqa do you follow?
Wow my two favorite youtubers on religion 😮
Alex, as always, bringing us interesting information that enriches our understanding of the world and our own lives
Fuck yeah Filip! Your favorite UA-camrs favorite UA-camr.
Please invite Seyed Hossein Nasr to your show.
Really wanna see this happen
Does he do podcasts now? Isn't he old old?
Great video Alex
Christmas came early!!!
Nice to see Alex do a video about Islam.
Nice! Two of my fave UA-camrs in one video!
Also, damn! Homeboy Alex has been on fire with the uploads.
People in the UK need to start debating Islam. Why fear the radical ideas when you can defeat them in debate? Much love Alex, God bless!
They do debate every day I think on that park they have there.
Islam is deeply radical but not in the way you probably think.
@ you’re thinking of speakers corner. That’s true, but the threats that people receive for discussing Islam are obviously far worse for public figures. People shouldn’t have to fear for their lives for questioning a religion. As a Christian and an ex atheist, I love Alex’ work. I would never threaten someone because they disagreed with me
@@mohammedhanif6780 cutting off the hand of a thief, beating your wife if you fear her disobedience, the possibility of marrying a child/minor, killing an apostate, inheritance divided unequally depending on whether you’re a man or a woman, the possibility of having slaves and sexual slaves, or the ability to sleep with a married woman if she’s your slave, Forcing disbelievers to pay a tax if they don't get in your religion, to not take a disbeliever as an ally, leave any sitting where religion is being criticized or mocked .. loong list
Yeah probably not in the way he thinks, not even in the way the majority of muslims today think, because it's much more radical than you can imagine .. the majority of people do not know the texts, and that's why religious authority is still holding its ground in my home country.
Good to see that you are exploring Sufism. I recommend Abdul Hakim Murad (Tim Winter) asa guest as well as William Chittick and Hossein Nasr to go deeper.
Growing up in the Catholic school, there were things you could ask and there were things you could not, because asking the wrong thing could lead to some kind of penance. When I was twelve years old or so, the word mysticism came up from one of the older boys, and he said I should ask the monsignor. When I did, I remember him looking down at me as if I had been put up to a prank. He, seemingly lost for words and acting as if he was tired of being asked, let out a hopeless sounding "It's a mystery" and walked away. Happily, there were no penances.
That’s an interesting response, because there is an immensely rich mystical tradition in Catholicism. All the contemplative monastic orders, and individual mystics like St John of the Cross, Pseudo Dionysius the Areopagite, the anonymous author of the “Cloud of Unknowing”. Heck, even the titan of Catholic theology, Thomas Aquinas, has mystical elements in his work.
@@Dhavroch There are definitely other sides to Christianity which I don't think this channel, or much of the community in general, has explored. +1 to St. John of the Cross. The saints will tell you all about mystical experiences, but in this space of intellectual debate, it's all about logic and arguments.
Two of my favorites in one place!
I've been waiting on this one since you mentioned Filip on the podcast with Andrew from ReligionForBreakfast. Now all I need is a full crossover with you 3 plus Esoterica and Bart Ehrman
AINT NO WAY, Filip Holm and Alex O'Connor, i'm having a mystical experience
Yassss bae! Let’s get to the good stuff!
Super interesting topic
A very interesting discussion, thank you.
Just started watching, I love Filip, as far as videos delving into religion on UA-cam, ive watched more of his than the rest that ive watched combined. Super learned guy. If youre reading this, thank you!
Secondly, just had to comment on the fact that Filip used hyperrational to describe mystic sight, almost exactly the same way Bishop Barron described faith as supra rational. On the far side of reason, at the horizon of human perception and intellect. Good stuff already 👍
filip holm and alex on a podcast talking about Sufism is something I never knew I needed ajrgofijeaorigj
1:11:27
As a persian who reads sufi poetry on daily basis: answering to this question is a bit complicated but... In most cases, "Wine" (Mey in persian and Khamr in Arabic) has been used as a metaphore for love's intoxination and "selfless" condition of the lover. Sometimes as Philips rightly pointed out it was used for provoking, and even critisizing religious dogma. Forexample, Sanāī Ghaznavi, Hafez, Attar and others have criticized religious "authorities" for thier hypocrosy protraying "the homeless intoxinated" persons as good guys of society and the religious (false) piets as bad guys! (It's hard to explain it to a western audience🤦🤦🤦 while those poets themselves were mostly extremely religious. Excuse me for bad english.
Sunni Sufi Muslim here. I believe in strong adherence to shariah etc. yet I must say Salafis have this hilarious inability to contextualise Islamic texts it's become a meme/insider joke among other sunni Muslims. Salafis will even consider it 'innovation' and thus a wretched practice for someone write poetry to God. There's no reasoning with these guys, they usually experience the 'Salafi burnout' eventually.
The important thing to consider is that Sufi forms of worship that we commonly think of when we think of the term, are not canonical aspects of worship nor are they a replacement for mandatory prayers, but they are a way of connecting to God - it falls under the Dhikr category (remembrance of God). The only gripe would be to avoid structures where everyone is singing and there's an Imam in the middle as it *looks like* reverence of the Imam.
Strong adherence to Sharia? As in cutting off the hand of a thief, beating your wife if you fear her disobedience, the possibility of marrying a child/minor, killing an apostate, inheritance divided unequally depending on whether you’re a man or a woman, the possibility of having slaves and sexual slaves, or the ability to sleep with a married woman if she’s your slave?
I was a Sunni Muslim before. These are a few excerpts of Sharia law I’m familiar with. Is it different in Sufi Islam?
How gracious of you to visit an atheist’s comment section to talk smack about your fellow Muslims.
Yet then you’ll turn around and accuse salafis of sectarianism lol
@@dri-fit9712 Salafis are trying to protect tradition which I appreciate and respect, but they go overboard and it deserves to be criticised especially when they bring a bullying attitude. Forget mere sectarianism, Salafis takfir other regular Sunnis more than any other 'sect' takfirs another.
What do you mean by Salafis can’t contextualize Islamic texts? And which Salafi scholar forbid writing poems where you are addressing god directly?
For the case of Al Hallaj (which was a persian like me), he seemingly stated that when he says "I am the truth", Divine consiousness is speaking through him; and he actually gives an example for such an experience: the story of Moses and fiery tree/bush near mount Sinai where the fiery tree says to Moses: I am your God! Here the tree is not refering to itself but the divine is speaking through it. The idea is at the peak of spiritual experience one may unite with the divine as such (not unity in essence but united in consiousness or sth like that).
This looks amazing
Sick crossover ep
My two favourite youtubers😍😍😍😍
Amazing colab! If you can, I would love to see Jay Garfield talk about Buddhism
I really like Philip and his videos, but I believe that this conversation is an example of how the academic approach can get in the way or understanding rather than facilitating it in some cases.
I see that Philip is very conscious of nuances and counter-examples to common understanding. This is great to go into with people already familiar with the subject at hand, but for introducing a subject to a new audience, I believe it causes the plot to be lost a little bit.
I think the introduction of mysticism in Islam and Sufism would be much better served by assuming a core narrative and representing it, sacrificing the nuances in favor of a big picture view. Not to lose the forest for the trees so to speak. Specifically in the case of Sufism, I was hoping that a taste of the tradition would be transmitted to the viewer rather than an overview of the academic view.
Perhaps another discussion is in order with a Sufi practitioner to cover the topic from an experiential angle which I believe Alex is more and more interested in.
I think it would be amazing to interview someone who makes sense of the world through a Sufi perspective and question them on theology, critiques of Islam, view of other religions, etc.
To be honest what a suprise, most popular alex interaction with islam is with Muhammad Hijab, man what a long time ago
Thank you for moving beyond Christianity! This is what I need from Within Reason!
Love it Alex ❤
It is my first time that I hear very deep unbiased analysis of an Islam sects by westerners, my respect for you gentlemen.
I would like to see Alex talk to Professor Jay Garfield about Buddhism.
It's 1:35 AM here in Korea...why did you upload this now I have to listen this till I sleep...
checking in from korea at 1.49am - and watching 🤓
Hey Alex. Been an observer of your podcast for a long long time.Sufism is one of very few sects of Islam I seem to appreciate. The music and swirling dervishes are intoxicating for me. May I offer a suggestion? Might you see yourself as more of a Huston Smith trailblazer? We need a 21st century thoughtful person like yourself to expose/articulate the faith from an agnostic perspective. Please respond. I would appreciate your thoughts. I am an agnostic Buddhist.Which negates the very essence of Buddhism by defining oneself.
I find mysticism fascinating. Vladimir Lossky's 'The Mystical Theology of The Eastern Church' is a wonderful book I discovered when converting to Eastern Orthodox Christianity.
God in islam is indeed unlike his creation and beyond the confinement of space and time. Yet, closer to each one of us than our jugular vein in terms of seeing, hearing and all encompassing knowledge, even of our inner thoughts. It's a pretty simple concept to comprehend.
As a wise old sage once said from a proverb - "Islam does to a man exactly what rabies does to a dog"
- The wisest.
Exploring spirituality will lead to the answers you seek.
Now we need more Taoism (or Daoism), Buddhism etc. eastern philosophies.
Oooo new religious content
🍿🍿
Please do more videos/debates on Islam🙏
Can you do a deep dive into Buddhism? I believe it will provide you with a lot of answers you’re searching for Alex.
I think there's actually a relatively simple reason why there are less Shia Sufis: if you believe your Sheikh is the Qutb, the perfect man who stands at the top of the human hierarchy before God, then that is a threat to the authority of the Imam.
Afaik the leaders of Shia orders generally didn't claim to be Qutbs but rather representatives of the Imam, but were still seen as a threat by religious and secular Shia leaders.
Aaron Abke collab would be historic
13:20 nice to know his name is Philipe
1:00:58 this is incorrect, the sort of anti religious-community phase of the government has phased out a while ago and as long as you don't associate with reigious communities closely related to terrorist groups you are completely free to do whatever you want. It was forbidden in the first place due to religious communities usually being parallel with radical political groups who engaged in political violence, so it wasn't a secularism issue.
"For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know Him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe."
19:50 the Malikis weren’t Ahl Al-Ra’i (or however that word is supposed to be spelled in English) but rather they were from Ahl Al-Hadith.
A discussion with Abdul Hakim murad would be nice.😊
Good thinkers, this should be good. Though I do think Filip's Claim " Philosophical Taoism isn't of itself complete or whole " is false.
Sufism is pretty cool. I like all the non-dual perspectives on reality, regardless of semantics :)
"non-dual" meaning "self-contradictory"?
If you'd like to have a more in-depth conversation about Sufism and Mysticism in Islam, please try to bring Abdul Karim Soroush to your Show. He is a practicing Mystic and is well-versed in Islamic traditions.
Prophet Mohammed didn't go against musics and songs. First the Quran is wrote in a poetery way, and prophet Mohammed was welcomed in Madina by songs and drums..actually prophet Mohammed liked that
Concerning music, the consensus of the scholars of ahl as-sunnah is that it is impermissible to play instruments, except this one kind of drum.
Yup, one of the saddest "divine rules" that took the joy out of my childhood
@@akramelmansouri6752your desires are nothing but short time amusment and delusion. We all worship something and you are just choosing your own feelings
*Please invite Swami Sarvapriyananda next !*
Alex please do a podcast on neoplatanism next with dr Justin sledge and Filip homes please please please please please please please please please please please
Thank you again alex your episodes on religion are always far more interesting then the atheism
Okay if that's your opinion
I heard from a moslem UA-cam video that - Allah has two right hands. Is this correct?
Is islam a deist religion where as Christianity is theistic.?
@@arthurdinucci huh??????
Allah has 2 right hands, but it is not like anything in this world. It is different and unimaginable from the human perspective
take your meds old man
And a shin
I'm an ex-muslim, but i just learn about sufism and wish to learn more about it. I'm surprised that just as i got interested in it, Alex talks about this topic. Got goosebumps as soon as i saw the notification😅😂
Sufi Jesus did seem to think that his own self-annihilation was pretty essential (in terms of this union with God and ultimate forgiveness malarkey)
More videos on Islam pleaaaaase. YOLO my boy. There’s only so much you can work with with Christianity.
Alex, if you want to have in the future muslim guests I suggest the Muslim Lantern, blogging theology and hamza's den
Loving this.. I got to refocus on Ibn Arabi's unity of being. This was through my efforts on step 3 of Codependents Anonymous. Knowing my self through the attributes of God.