Learning a language destroyed my chance to become fluent

Поділитися
Вставка
  • Опубліковано 18 жов 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 54

  • @Angelovanrooij
    @Angelovanrooij  5 місяців тому +5

    When it comes to learning any language, what is your biggest struggle? I'd love to hear your answer!
    You can also send me an email or ask for a conversation, I'd love to talk with you about that. Or if you'd like to receive updates from my current language learning experiences, you can join my email list :)
    angelovanrooij.substack.com/

  • @marcospauloviegas5765
    @marcospauloviegas5765 5 місяців тому +14

    I've been learning English and I can see myself in your experience. Recently, I finally found my goal in studying the language, but I still have a big struggle: I can read, I'm able to listening and understand (mostly in b1 and b2), I can speak alone... but when I engage in conversation with a native, something happens that I forget all the words and keep my self in the very basic of the language.

    • @milanhrvat
      @milanhrvat 5 місяців тому +5

      Then you need to speak more. You are probably getting blocked because you want to perform in front of the native even if it's subconscious and then you freeze because the panic attack or fear of looking dumb falls upon you and then because of this shock, nothing is accessible. The key.... Find native speakers on iTalki, talk and talk. Until it's automatic and the fear turns into the not give a sh*t attitude and then you'll have no issues

    • @anguscarpenter5254
      @anguscarpenter5254 5 місяців тому +3

      I 100% agree with the other commenter, I'd just like to add a few things. With English in particular, words have extremely subtle nuances. And even though just reading and listening are great ways to get more input in the language, the #1 most effective way to break out of the "just intermediate" language phase is speaking with feedback. This is one of the reasons why everyone recommends speaking with natives, but personally, I think you can go a little further. You need to speak with someone who can accurately explain nuances of words and concepts. Once you feel you understand these nuances better, your confidence in the language will improve massively.

    • @luchoaventuras7820
      @luchoaventuras7820 5 місяців тому +2

      I think that natural, but dont worry about it, it takes your brain a lot of time to get used to the lenguage, the more you read, listen and speak the best you get at it. I recommend you to read some books. I used to talk with some online friend a lot, i didnt improve that much, but reading was a huge game changer for me, after reading like 40 books i was able to think more naturaly on english. Even if i didnt remember a word i could think fast in another way to say the same thing. The more you are used to a lenguage the easier it become to speak it better under pressure. Another thing that you have to keep in mind is that there is passive vocabulary and active vocabulary. Even if you are able to recognize a world doesnt mean that you will be able to use it easily in conversation or writting.

    • @marcospauloviegas5765
      @marcospauloviegas5765 5 місяців тому

      @@luchoaventuras7820 I'm reading more now in fact. I started using LingQ from Steve Kaufmann, and it's been very cool. To speak more with natives I'm trying Cambly.

    • @Angelovanrooij
      @Angelovanrooij  5 місяців тому +2

      What you're describing is soooo relatable. It's a mental struggle and it quite literally prevents you from reaching a fluency that you probably have.
      I agree 1000% with what @milanhrvat wrote in his comment! Speak until you get rid of the fear and it will become natural.

  • @detectiverubs5830
    @detectiverubs5830 5 місяців тому +6

    I learned English in school and reached a certain level of fluency in about 4 years. What helped me personally to advance my skills, was to read the lyrics to my favourite songs and look up the words i didn't understand. Nowadays, probably 90% of my media consume is in English, which further reinforces my knowledge. Yet, now i started learning Turkish (for I have a number of friends with Turkish heritage and Turkish is the most spoken foreign language where I live) and i struggle to repeat the success i had with English. I've been learning via Babbel for three months now, but have been speaking extremely little Turkish.

    • @Angelovanrooij
      @Angelovanrooij  5 місяців тому +3

      When you say fluency, is that speaking or reading?
      I also consume almost all content in English so I never really struggle to understand everyday English. Actually there are a lot of Turkish people where I used to live so I know a couple of words /phrases but if I wanted to learn it, I would probably immerse myself as much as possible. Also there would be enough opportunities to speak so that would help as well after a decent amount of input

    • @detectiverubs5830
      @detectiverubs5830 5 місяців тому

      Both speaking and reading. But what i noticed, is that I tend to speak better (or at least sound more Enhlish) with other non English speakers than with natives. In my theory, this is because it's more like acting, playing a role when I talk to my friends in English rather than in our native language, whereas when speaking to natives it's actually "me" talking (maybe I'm also less confident when talking to natives).

    • @MobbinMic
      @MobbinMic 5 місяців тому +1

      Honestly, I think the biggest reason is that English is just by far the easiest language to consume. As a native English speaker, I'm honestly jealous how many options non-native have compared to the options we have in other languages. It's also hard to capture the same excitement you had when learning your first language. I've learned 3 languages, and what I always do is find enjoyable music in my target language like you did with English. This helps remind me why I like the language so much. Another trick I do is watch Disney classics that I grew up with, in my target language, if available. I know English is like a crutch when it comes to entertainment, but if you want the same success as English, your English consumption would have to take the backseat for a while and be replaced with Turkish. Otherwise, just accept that it won't quite get to your English level, and that's ok

  • @BertilWAF
    @BertilWAF 5 місяців тому +5

    Great video! I've been learning German (and will start learning Japanese after the summer), but I am not able to use it instinctively. Thus I will start putting myself in more 'real' scenarios and hopefully build that automatic response, instead of learning through textbooks and one classmate. When I properly begin learning Japanese I hope to put myself in more interactive language-learning positions, even though that requires a greater (initial) effort... Greetings from Denmark!

    • @milanhrvat
      @milanhrvat 5 місяців тому +1

      I assume you are Danish. I studied German and can speak it at a high level and automatically. No thinking. I even did an experiment... I had a german UA-cam Video playing in 1 side while I was talking to a guy in french. And even without focussing on the German, I can understand all of it without any vocab seeking, grammar analysis or anything. I studied German in under a year. Max 9 months quite extensively. I realised a few things. The classroom (Goethe-Institut) only gets a general framework. Most if not every single person in my class at B2 level still spoke broken German. Many take a break between B2 and C1 in order to gain real life experiences before continuing as you can't survive a C1 class with half broken sentences. How I got my German to be automatic... And in a short period of time. I split half my time which was around 10 hours per day on... Input (intensive classes at 2 schools at the same time, glossika, lingq, UA-cam). That would be around 7 hours per day. Then output (italki) which was 3 hours daily. On the weekend when I didn't have class, I replaced that time with all glossika and videos. No native content. Something around B1-B2. I never did homework or those stupid mini tests, or fill in the gap nonsense. Italki, I picked a guy who gave non-stop feedback, ie... Corrections without interrupting my speaking which is critical to build fluency but at the same time to get corrected. I learned proper pronunciation so I won't sound like an American speaking in most languages. Then I used Italki to constantly use words that I learnt from input. Spent most of that time telling stories about my life using those words. When you talk to someone, it's not all output. As the guy is speaking too. So I reckon I did 80% input and 20% output overall. I change my style of speaking to be informal or formal. I make sure that topics I struggled in... Say finance, I would repeat the same topics every week until I can talk about it. The key is lots of intensive input and output in a very short period. Not this few hours dragged over several days stuff. You need to really push it. I did 600 hours of italki in 6 months. I noticed really big gains after 200 hours of speaking. I started speaking at 1000 hours of input. At Goethe-Institut, I refused to speak until B1. Kept it minimal and in B2... People were just shocked. Went to C1 and I can tell most people have not done enough speaking overall. They struggled. Nevertheless, this is my experience

    • @Angelovanrooij
      @Angelovanrooij  5 місяців тому +1

      It does require some effort but it's worth it! Learning only gets you so far. I struggle with English sometimes and I'm pretty sure the only solution would be to speak a ton. Italki is an option, like Milan suggested. Now that I think about it, I've never taken a german italki class lol

  • @milanhrvat
    @milanhrvat 5 місяців тому +6

    The best video 😊 and thanks for the conversation. 3+ hours. 😮 Next time we'll do it in deutsch.

    • @Angelovanrooij
      @Angelovanrooij  5 місяців тому +1

      Thanks for the comment! Dann muss ich erst noch ein bisschen üben!

  • @Liiiiiino
    @Liiiiiino 5 місяців тому +5

    Hey, love your videos!
    My case is a bit strange.. I don't speak or understand my mother tongue.. my dad was against us speaking a language he couldn't understand. My mom would speak around us with family members and friends and all my life it always was like birds singing. Now I live in my mom's country and I would like to speak it.. but I don't get why it's not natural or easier to learn

    • @Angelovanrooij
      @Angelovanrooij  5 місяців тому +1

      Your story caught my attention... I wanna know more about it haha. Would you be down to send me a mail or hop on a call or something?

  • @schinism3247
    @schinism3247 5 місяців тому +1

    It seems that English isn't your native language, but you speak so well like a native speaker. Did you ever think about studying Japanese the way you studied English? Or do you feel like you have to learn Japanese differently?

    • @Angelovanrooij
      @Angelovanrooij  5 місяців тому

      That's the thing, I learned English mostly through media, games, internet etc. whereas Japanese, I studied mostly grammar. But I ended up enjoying learning grammar.
      That's why I struggle with speaking Japanese now. I can tell you a lot about how the language works etc but when it comes to speaking I always think about the rules first and I hate that. So I'm working on that now :)

    • @UsernamesHandle
      @UsernamesHandle 4 місяці тому

      @@Angelovanrooij Are you self concious when you speak Japanese? Before I became fluent in English, pretty much before the finish line, I remember worrying too much when talking to people. When I got confident in my ability the speaking became much smoother shortly after, like a single month of time, and it's not like I learned much of anything new in that period.

  • @fatimahmakgatho8968
    @fatimahmakgatho8968 5 місяців тому +2

    This makes me think of how, I can't speak Zulu for shit or read it but I perfectly understand any conversation in Zulu
    In Japanese, it's the opposite. I can read, write and speak but I'm not good at listening: I love reading manga more than I like watching anime so reading (quietly and out loud) is easier for me than following a conversation
    With any skill, you kind of have to learn the basics then choose which parts you want to master. If you try to master everything you won't master anything

  • @msmith155
    @msmith155 5 місяців тому +6

    Nice little video. Congrats on your high level of understanding in Japanese, I'd like to get there some day. The wheelie example was good, it's just that language learning is a bit more abstract than a physical skill. The real way to build language-intuition is to simply watch a lot of native content, an idea from MattvsJapan. When you hear something over and over again it'll be in your subconscious which you can magically pull from later ("Oh this sounds right, since I think I've heard this said before," which is something you have for your own native language). While it's still small, I feel like I have minor moments with this in Japanese, a small level of intuition, which is neat.
    I'm not a total beginner but I'm still very novice in Japanese, though I'd like to get really good like Matt one day, but that takes a lot of time and dedication. Certainly, it's worth thinking about whether or not it's all worth it, as there is an opportunity cost with your time, always (a concept from economics). It seems to be underappreciated, but having a long-term goal in mind is quite important if you're willing to invest so much time into something. If not language, you could be doing something else.
    I think one's ultimate goal can be as simple as wanting to consume content in that target language. With Japanese, there's a lot of cool and interesting (unique) content to be had. That's my personal goal for instance, there's things I'd like to read that only really exist in that language.

    • @Angelovanrooij
      @Angelovanrooij  5 місяців тому +1

      Hey thanks for commenting! You're right, the wheelie example is just a small part of it, language is not a physical skill. I guess my point is that in order to develop a feel for the language, you need to expose yourself to the language (through experiences with the language)
      Yeah, I'm familiar with Matt's method and I think there's nothing wrong with the goal to understand media.
      Personally, as I was watching native media, I noticed that I really enjoyed being able to understand native japanese even though I never set the intention to make that my goal. But only recently have I been thinking about an actual goal...

    • @Angelovanrooij
      @Angelovanrooij  5 місяців тому +1

      Oh and to add to that, good luck with your goal! Japanese is such a unique language and being able to understand that feels great!

    • @msmith155
      @msmith155 5 місяців тому

      @@Angelovanrooij Thank you, best wishes to you too.

    • @Jordan-Ramses
      @Jordan-Ramses 5 місяців тому +1

      Yeah, I'm learning Japanese for Anime and Hololive. My goal is to understand spoken Japanese. So I'm not learning Kanji or worrying about speaking it.
      I also like a lot of Japanese music but I don't feel like knowing the language matters for that. I think it's better not knowing.

    • @Angelovanrooij
      @Angelovanrooij  5 місяців тому +1

      oh, I watched quite some hololive as well haha. Their streams are a good resource for natural Japanese

  • @fatimahmakgatho8968
    @fatimahmakgatho8968 5 місяців тому +1

    The wheelie example is a good example

    • @Angelovanrooij
      @Angelovanrooij  5 місяців тому

      haha, it's the first thing that came to mind

  • @shrippie-4214
    @shrippie-4214 5 місяців тому +2

    I'm learning Russian I just try to simply to not think sometimes I accidentally use one English word while reading outloud, but its fine.
    Also how can you just learn about the language and not use it how will anything stick you diffentently just took the hardest longest route of learning a language
    if you have enough input you can just speak/write
    I use Russian almost everyday and try to listen, and read as much as possible

    • @Angelovanrooij
      @Angelovanrooij  5 місяців тому

      Well personally I enjoy grammar, listening and being able to understand people. I was so focussed on that and I had no real interactions.

  • @learneratheart2564
    @learneratheart2564 5 місяців тому +4

    LaoShu RIP 🙏

    • @Angelovanrooij
      @Angelovanrooij  5 місяців тому

      He's the goat. Not only what he did but also his personality. I think a lot of people could somehow identify with his personality. I plan to make a video about him and how he got me into languages.

  • @paulwalther5237
    @paulwalther5237 5 місяців тому +2

    I don’t think you ruined your chance to be fluent in Japanese. You just need to practice speaking it. It takes a lot of practice. The idea that all you need is input is a bit exaggerated. People still need to practice outputting a lot too.
    I’m learning Korean and I think my Korean sounds pretty similar to your Japanese but maybe your comprehension is a little higher. I’m gonna to Korea next month for two weeks and I’m psyched to see how it goes. I’m much more motivated to practice outputting and I’m doing the self talk thing. I never really did that before because… nobody to talk to for the foreseeable future. Knowing that you will have a real opportunity to speak does wonders. Tutors are ok and I like speaking Japanese with them but it’s not the same. I used to study Japanese. I really don’t like speaking Korean to tutors because my Korean is too basic and I feel like they’re judging me while a real person in real life would only care about communicating.

    • @Angelovanrooij
      @Angelovanrooij  5 місяців тому

      I just wish I started speaking sooner I guess. I don't think input can get you fluent either. But having had heard a lot of input before outputting seems to work. I wouldn't like to start speaking if I only knew the basics.
      The reason I was speaking with randoms on an app was exactly what you described. They don't judge you on your skills (mostly). They're just looking for someone to talk to so it relieves some pressure.
      Oh and have fun in Korea!

  • @jeeves9233
    @jeeves9233 5 місяців тому +1

    What app/program did you use to chat with other people @0:30 ?

    • @Angelovanrooij
      @Angelovanrooij  5 місяців тому +1

      It's called Yay!
      You'll find a lot of Japanese people, asian people in general and occasionally people who speak English. Ideal for immersion!

    • @jeeves9233
      @jeeves9233 5 місяців тому +1

      @@Angelovanrooij Thank you dude!

    • @Angelovanrooij
      @Angelovanrooij  5 місяців тому

      You're welcome!

  • @vienna6671
    @vienna6671 5 місяців тому +2

    i would say from my own experience of learning English, thinking in your target language is really, really helpful. it makes it more intuitive.
    even if you only know few words, everytime you catch yourself thinking about those, replace the word in your head to the word in the language you are learning, and the more you learn the more you start thinking in the language. and so it will become easier to use the language without translation.
    and i would also say that instead of memorising words and the translation to instead try to understand the meaning instead the translation, idk if that makes sense. and also translate everything very literally,
    for example i would translate
    私はナメです
    into "i * Name am" (*particle)
    instead of "my name is -Name"
    idk i just think its more easier to remember the words this way. and the word order of Japanese?
    uhh well idk about English but this works well in my language since it has free word order. and is similar to Japanese. in English it may sound weird/un understandable
    but honestly dont listen to me about Japanese im very beginner on that lol

    • @Angelovanrooij
      @Angelovanrooij  5 місяців тому

      I absolutely agree with what you said about meaning vs translation.
      I don't like to use the word translation because when you're translating into another language, what you're actually doing is communicating the meaning into another language. And that other language has it's own way of expressing that (if that makes sense lol)
      Like there are things we say in Dutch that I couldn't translate to English. So I would use expressions that English has to convey the same meaning of what I'm trying to say.
      Oh and good luck with Japanese!
      頑張って!

  • @ジョジョさま
    @ジョジョさま 5 місяців тому +1

    So far Japanese seems easier to learn than Spanish was.
    It's strange. Once I learn a word a few times, I'm able to just pick it out and hear it when it's spoken. And I hear them often. They don't pronounce it differently based on where they are from, they all speak clearly, and they don't seem to rely on many synonyms.
    Spanish is different. I still have such a hard time understanding what I'm hearing. Especially if they're from the Caribbean.

    • @CardonaShio
      @CardonaShio 5 місяців тому

      I am a spanish speaker (mexico) and sometimes caribbean Spanish is hard to pick up tbh

    • @ジョジョさま
      @ジョジョさま 5 місяців тому

      @@CardonaShio I speak Mexican Spanish and they give me so much shit for it.

    • @Angelovanrooij
      @Angelovanrooij  5 місяців тому

      That's really interesting. Btw I personally think Mexican spanish sounds better than Spanish from Spain lol

  • @Matt-jc2ml
    @Matt-jc2ml 5 місяців тому +1

    You have to speak more. Maybe get a Japanese girlfriend. If you speak constantly everyday then you'll think less

    • @Angelovanrooij
      @Angelovanrooij  5 місяців тому

      Working on that! Except the getting a Japanese girlfriend hahaha