Unboxing - KOUHEI-SHINMATSU ZDP-189 BUNKA BLACK 200MM (7.9") Suncraft Knives
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- Опубліковано 27 чер 2024
- KOUHEI-SHINMATSU ZDP-189 BUNKA BLACK 200MM (7.9")
$322 USD
sharpedgeshop.com/products/ko...
Kouhei-Shinmatsu ZDP-189 Bunka Black 200mm (7.9") comes as the culmination of a decade’s worth of expertise gained through selling and working with knives on our part, and the knowledge and mastery of Japanese knife forging, passed on through generations within the Suncraft smithy.
Due to our continued and successful collaboration with Suncraft, we decided to honor the founders of the smithy by naming this line of knives after them: Kouhei (耕平) Kawashima, who started Suncraft more than 70 years ago, and his father, Shinmatsu (新松).
The bunka shape has proven time and time again (our previous Black Damascus and SG2 Matte collaborations with Suncraft) to be worthy of replication and reiteration. That's why we went for this universal shape, suitable for any cutting, chopping or slicing assignment you throw at it!
ZDP-189 steel has stood the test of time as the ultimate kitchen knife steel and remains a favorite among professional chefs, as well as aspiring home cooks. Therefore, we felt it was appropriate that a hardcore duo-such as this Bunka and Petty-was forged out of the most hard-core (literally) steel! Coming in at 65-66 HRC on the Rockwell scale, these knives are easily one of the hardest knives we offer, so edge retention will be second to none.
Put this in an equation together with a black kuro-uchi finish, treated with subtle hammer dents, and a beautiful octagon rosewood handle, and you got yourself a winner!
SPECIFICATIONS:
Blade shape: Bunka
Steel type: ZDP-189
Hardness (HRC scale): 65-66
Overall length: 345mm (13.6")
Blade length: 200mm (7.9")
Blade height: 47mm (1.9")
Spine thickness: 2mm (0.08")
Weight: 155g (5.5 oz)
Handle length: 127mm (5")
Handle type / wood: Japanese / Rosewood
Blacksmith: Suncraft
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Greg, I had to stop the video at the 13:39 mark and say a quick word. Yes, while ZDP-189 (and Miyabi MC66...same exact steel) have 20% Chromium content, they are NOT stainless steels. The reason being is that ZDP-189 has a whopping 3% carbon content. When the steel is made (using powder steel technology), this chromium binds with the carbon and creates a LOT of chromium carbides. The "free chromium" that acts to make the steel "stainless" is relatively low, as most of the chromium is tied up in chromium carbides. I have a Miyabi Santoku that has a ZDP-189 san mai blade, and the core steel is actually taking a slight patina over time/use. And likewise, the new CPM Magnacut steel has only 10% Chromium, but it is just about as stainless as LC200N. Which is saying a LOT. The reason that a 10% Chromium steel can be so stainless is because the carbon content was regulated, I think about 1.1% or so. So the lesson is, you can't just look at the Chromium % to tell how stainless a steel is. I hope that helps. As a knife maker and steel junkie, I was compelled to give that info. Beautiful knife, BTW. Oh and another thing, because chromium carbides are relatively soft compared to tungsten carbides and vanadium carbides, ZDP can be sharpened on waterstones, especially stones like Shapton pro or glass. Try this edge sometime....get a very crisp apex on your best 1000 grit stone, then use a soft King (or similar) 4000 and then 8000, using edge trailing only. You will be blown away by how aggressive that edge is. I did this to that Miyabi at 10° per side, and using a finger test, feels like it wants to rip right into you!
I appreciate your time. I appreciate the fact that you took all that time to share that with me. I look forward to researching that more. I would’ve never thought about the offset of the carbon contact being higher. Anyone who takes time out of their day to share something with another person is giving a gift. I appreciate you. I just woke up on the couch. I look forward to rereading this and learning more about this.
Stuart ---- Thanks for the insights there. I haven't gotten into steels, but I've seen classifications of something like 30,000 (different for U.S. and European). Apparently, steel for cutlery is kind of low on the totem pole of priorities, with most steels cooked up for bigger uses (fasteners, bits, machinery, construction, transportation). I'm still questioning a lot of things about cutlery, not so much whether one steel might get sharper than another, but more practically, what degree of sharpness can be expected to hold over even just a week of careful kitchen use.
One Swiss guy (Kase knives, IIRC) showed a sharpness over time chart comparing two steels, but didn't go into it much beyond concluding that a commonly used cutlery steel held an average sharpness better than a "sharper" steel. It still surprises me how fragile a sub-100 BESS 10 degree dual bevel edge is. I got a Henckels MC 66 sharp, but it didn't stay there long at all. Maybe I need better understanding or practice, or a better knife rack, but I'm wondering if sub-100, fun as it is, is worth it for a non-sushi-professional (I see how carefully they slice and baby their knives, like "don't let that edge touch anything!").
P.S. Edit: The Swiss guy cooked up some kind of alloy for himself, and sharpened with his undisclosed proprietary method, then showed the edge-tester gadget registering 4 (four) (not 140, not 40, but a single-digit 4). A brand new double-edge razor blade apparently tests around 15. A lot of guys show low BESS scores, but none I've seen so far proceed to test again after, for example, slicing up a grilled rib roast! Greg here came closest, testing a "house knife" that had been in use for a month or more.
@@davesmith5656 I hear that! I take my kitchen knives, generally, to 2000JIS, and that’s it. Works well for me! Another thing about the simple steels like good old carbon 1095 or even AEBL.....they don’t have a lot of carbide in them like other stainless steels do. I don’t see the need for a carbide rich steel in the kitchen at all! I mean, if our food was so abrasive, our teeth would be worn to nubs! To me a kitchen knife steel should not be so wear resistant. A high hardness and good toughness to support thin, low angle edges is all you need in the kitchen. ZDP189 and these other high end PM steels are cool and all, but there is a reason Japanese chefs prefer white and blue paper steels! They get stupid hard, they are tough, and they are easy to sharpen (low overall carbide volume).
@@stuartdavenport2952 I've got a gyuto in Magnacut and so far, over a couple of months of usage it has performed really well. It came with a very nice edge and so far I've only touched it up on my ceramic rod and my strop.
I have a ZDP-189 knive for 10 years now and sharpened it 3 times on my wicked edge and I have never seen a single sign of rust on it. I now have bought the same knife as on this video and also the 240mm Big brother to this and look forward to how it's doing.
My old ZDP-189 is not sandwich knife like this.
Fantastic!
Right!!
THATS A LITTLE DANGER ZONE! Cracked me up! Great channel subscribed!
Thank you for your support. Glad to make you smile.
Nice review as well as amazing knife. Cant wait to see your review on the Jiro and takada no hamono.
I am excited to do those for you. My wife’s father has been very sick. He has cancer and now he’s in the hospital with bacteria in his blood. We will try to do some more reviews in a couple weeks. Right now we have some already filmed. None of these knives get used until we do a review. I am equally excited. Thanks for your support
@@nadm Really sorry to hear about that, wish he will recover as soon as possible, keep doing the amazing work.
Very nice knife
Thank you sir. Thank you for your support.
YYYYYYEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSS zdp189!
Yes!!
Great channel, subscribed. Yeah, I'm a huge knive guy like you. My best right now is the Dalstrong Shoguns. Their nice, but I would love some zdp 189 in my collection. Impressive results.
Well, that will be a big jump. If you get up there to the ZDP189 group but you will enjoy it way more because the ones you have a kind of brutal. Good luck and we're glad to have you here.
Dalstrong knives are a scam. Even a Xinzuo would be better than any dalstrong.
It really does! 6:42 ☺😊
Yes!
Bunkzilla 😍
I love that!!!
You’ll have to give us some feedback after sharpening this metal. I have a Chinese cleaver with 18% chromium in it and it’s not fun to sharpen 🥴. Have you tried any Takeda knives ?. He’s supposed to be right up there with the aogami super master smiths. Too pricey for me to try though.
Ok
I bet you can get that knife sharper. Just to my limited knowledge, Japanese makers sometimes offer three options on sharpening (I forget what those are exactly, but something like 1) sharpened, 2) semi-sharpened, and 3) not sharpened). All knives will have to be sharpened at some point (or thrown away, or given away, which some people do). The Japanese mind set on sharpening differs from the western. It's an interesting comparison. I don't have any ZDP 189 knives, but if it's as hard as advertised, I guess Kouhei tried to save their customers some labor. Still, you could get it sharper, and they would not be in the least bit offended.
So, Luka It’s probably more responsible for it being sharp than the blacksmiths at Suncraft. As the owner of sharp edge knife it has been his project. I agree that we could probably get it sharper but shipping it that way could probably result to chipping early on and then you have refunds or exchanges. I don’t really need to have a sharper but it will be fun to see if we can get it sharper.
Aloha my friend
Hello there
We need a set of whetstones more expensive than this to maintain it
You definitely need good ones.
Zdp 189 has very good edge retention but sometimes it can be a little shippy
I’m looking forward to finding out. That one was incredible. My others EDP 189 knife is sharp but very thick and it seems like it wedges food a little bit
I have zdp yoshida hamono bunka for i think 2-3 years and there is no any damage,i am chef so i use it a lot
@@mateojedan793 how many times do you have to sharpen it?
Also depends on at what angel you sharpen it. Go low and you get a razer blade, go high you get a more stable edge.
HAP40 68 +/-0.5
So I was hearing different things. I'm glad to hear something from you. Please send info on that. Because I was definitely told that the ZDP189 was the normal highest one you would get in culinary knives. I've seen higher in every day carry (EDC)
@@nadm the HAP40 is at 68RC through Sukenari, who I’ve mentioned before. They’ve slightly modified the temperatures for austentising the steel to achieve the extreme hardness. Now, this does come with slightly less lateral (bending) strength, which is why several other makers tend to heat the steel to slightly lower temperatures, making it more flexible but less hard. Sukenari, however, generally grinds them a bit thicker than their standard AS and other knives, especially towards the spine.
Also, you are correct, the current king of hardness is Crucible’s REX 121 coming in at around 70, the very top of the Rockwell C scale. The stacking of a hefty amount of vanadium in the formula creates a mega density and uniform dispersion of large carbides, so that it does not suffer from the same chipping issues of ZDP189.
@@curseofthegreat would you say that Sukenari is better down for their Hap40 or their ZDP 189?
@@nadm given that I haven’t had a hands-on with their ZDP189, I cannot say with any certainty or fairness. However, they are the only ones that I know of that offer HAP40 & ZDP189 with stainless damascus cladding, and have been doing so for nearly a decade or longer.
ZDP is not stain free dude. I like ya but you promote a lot of misinfo quite often. ZDP will take on a very subtle patina almost right away in my experience if you chop anything acidic. And you're being quite dramatic about sharpening these things. In the lower grits, any basic stone will cut this stuff just fine. But I agree you're going to want diamond abrasives to put a proper edge on it, especially higher in grit.
I appreciate your support and I don't mind getting updated information. I have currently not gotten any type of stain on either one of my ZDP189 knives. I travel a lot of onions. I can only go by my experience but I love hearing from you and letting me know your experience. I'm not afraid of a patina. The information I received on sharpening was from other experts. After the fact I had a number of people say to me that they were able to do it but it took a while on the lower grades. I'm not a particular fan of the diamonds only because they seem a bit too aggressive. I'm glad you're having a great experience with other stones. Please let me know which stones you like for this sharping experience.
@@nadm I have 2 ZDP blades at the moment, a 180 bunka and 200 gyoto. I noticed mine getting that yellow brown hue on them almost after the first time I chopped onions. It's subtle but it's noticeable when contrasted with the stainless cladding. Not as much as you'd see on HAP40, I have 1 of those too a Kurosaki, but it's there. As for abrasives, at the lower grits, meaning under 1k, a shapton pro or whatever will get it done just fine. Don't get me wrong, I've gotten to the point where I prefer true soaking stones for their feel and versatility, but steel this hard will just eat those stones which already are prone to dishing. On mine I use 1k glass then the 6k naniwa diamond. Best $150 I spent. I have a whole variety of strops and compounds, as well 3m lapping sheets, to choose from there. Typically I like to stop, very carefully, on half micron loaded balsa. I agree with you that using a "normal" diamond plate or something like isn't a great option as those things just don't have the kind of fine abrasives appropriate for this job. It's fine for flattening stones or stock removal but I don't like to use them on my blades. I don't have an atoma 1200 but that would probably be okay. Thing is I'm so meticulous about maintaining my knives (via stropping) that I rarely need to sharpen, most of the time I just do it for the "enjoyment" basically to play around.
@@jeffhicks8428 i’ll look forward to having to sharpen them. They’re not in my typical rotation. The newest one is thin so it’s fun to use. The original is quite thick and heavy so I kind of stay away from it. I know you know that I have a lot of choices so it’s hard to see what I’m going to use next. Every time we do in unboxing, it becomes a new favorite. I do have the Naniwa compact field diamond stone. I know it’s technically the same as their full size, but I still want to bother full size. I do enjoy the CBN, but with CBN you can only get so fine. I know other diamond stones can go as fine as 6000. As you know, it’s not cheap. The $150 you spent sounds great. Enjoy. I don’t think I’ve used mine enough to start the patina. We’ll have to do an experiment and see how long it takes. I have other knows that oxidize very rapidly. Enjoy!
I had the same experience with ZDP, takes on a dull patina.
I don't trust the ingenuity of people holding or touching the blade of the knife while cutting something.
The handle of the knife is the best place always for the entire hand holding it, never the blade.
The blade, in the first place, was never made to hang your fingers around.
Thank you.
I don't understand it but I believe everyone should be able to believe in what they wanna believe. I know that pretty much every nice person I know and chef does a pinch grip with their fingers on the blade.
@@nadm ha ha ha... it is not actually a belief, in the first place.
It is about discipline and long practice how to understand where to put rightly your hand, while using the following such as, fighting swords, kitchen knives, machine shop or carpentry tools.
THE HAND SHOULD BE ALWAYS HOLDING THE DESIGNATED HANDLE, NO MORE NO LESS.
Thank you.
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Lighting sucks