How Europe is creating its own military-industrial complex
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- Опубліковано 20 жов 2024
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Europe is working on its biggest #military overhaul since the end of the Cold War. The #EU wants to upend the way it finances and sells arms. In effect, it is a military-industrial complex all but in name.
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Biafra
Do a video on Biafra
Gaza??? Oh now you're an antisemitic?? Wow...I'm Unsubscribing this channel, thank you. @CaspianReport
@@Maxxy351 nobody care little bro
@@nyrodiana7251 read on biafra please.
Helping Ukraine didn't cause European shortage of weapons, it merely exposed it.
Well over two YEARS into the war and some european key players still try to cheap out. I´m ashamed at my own country.
@@julesgro8526 The inertia is always significant. Though you definitely shoud try to identify and shame responsible people instead of just feeling shame yourself.
Have you got an idea of how much we can actually produce when we want? A lot more than ppl think.
Leave a comment.
THANK YOU!
"The only industry that creates products designed to be destroyed"... Well, I don't reuse toilet paper.
😂😂😂...
Or food
Apple phones break after 2 years, so add planned anything with planned obsolescence.
@@fredricknoe3114 Beat me to it, he forgot to mentioned those overpriced Apple products that autobreak after two years. 😂
Along with cigarettes or fireworks.
ayo don't do Denmark dirty like that. they sent ALL their artillery to ukraine!
And their anti-air. That’s a higher rate than the US. 😅
@@HappyGuy-cn9po All three pieces of them. Stunning contribution.
@@Knight_Kin Yes, how did I forget?!?!
And tanks. And F-16s. And anti-ship truck-launched missiles. And APCs. And a shitload of money. And placed orders in Ukrainian weapons industry.
That's no flex. Denmark's defense situation was crappy even before that.
"should step up or start learning russian" I honestly thought this was going to be a DuoLingo ad.
I also expected something like that :D
Actually if he chooses DuoLingo as a sponsor, i think no one will complain!
That would be cheeky 😅😂
neyet comrade
Fear-mongering is everywhere. Russia cannot afford to do that. Occupying is easy, but governing is costly. Russia will go bankrupt if occupying so much land.
Denmark has no heavy artillery or air defense systems because we've literally sent all of it to Ukraine. Soon we'll have no F-16s any longer either, because we'll give all of the remaining ones to Ukraine too...despite not having received even a third of the ordered F-35s. We've been a member of the F-35 program since its inception btw.
I don't mind all of those weapons being in Ukraine where it's needed at all, but you could at least mention that instead of just saying things out of context.
Yeah, that is extremely poorly worded, "this NATO country doesn't even have these categories of weapon", very cool line, but not at all a correct way to display its military when it had many of those categories just moments ago but sent them all to fight against the only possible opponent it could be needed against.
@@freedomfighter22222 Exactly. I believe we're right behind the Baltic states in terms of providing military help per capita. Not a mention of it. Then the Americans watch this and no wonder they think we don't care to invest into our own defense.
And of course, those howitzers haven't just been given away to Ukraine without a plan to replace them. We either will order new ones or have already ordered them...I'm not sure, haven't been following that closely, but I do know that the defense budget is going up every year.
"because we've literally sent all of it to Ukraine."
Still means you have none in the end.
@@alexlarsen6413 you should worry more half copenhagen being muslim ,thats a real a
national threat
@@ghostbride8718 Do you not understand what context means? There's a reason why we don't have any. A reason that hasn't been mentioned by this guy who btw literally promotes linking our politics to a US style legalized bribery by military industry lobbyists. We don't have any other potential enemies other than the Russians so our weapons are currently way more needed in a country being invaded by Russians and fighting them off than here.
Also, all of the weapons will be replaced, so what's your point?
There's a distinct difference between being peaceful and being harmless.
A huge problem with producing weapons across multiple countries is that then every one of those countries gets a veto on the re-export of those weapons to allies who are being invaded. Germany has discovered that some of their weapons are useless because the ammunition is made in Switzerland, and the Swiss can use their veto to prevent Germany from sending the ammunition to Ukraine. Nobody will buy European weapons if they need approval from ten different countries every time the weapons are needed.
But this sort of veto isn't a universal fact of international law, it was written into the contracts. We can simply stop putting that clause in when we sell the weapons.
Laws are changing (albeit slowly). Switzerland is reviewing its laws. Rheinmetal shifted production to Germany for Gepard ammunition.
The US also puts restrictions on weapons use too.
@@nigelgarrett7970 Yes, you are right. However, the restrictions on US weapons are managed by the federal government. You don't need to get separate permission from each state government within the US where some component is made. In Europe, the more separate countries are involved in producing a weapon, the greater the likelihood that one of them will use its veto to prevent the weapon being used.
Estonia knew 2months before the war declaration and attack ...
Germany and Finland literally delayed Estonia sending military aid and vechicles/artillery for 2months ... (there's somekind of laws, that u cant just arbitrarly send military stuff to third countries.,.. wich were given to you as gifts or smt... )
same bs... as F-35 jets need daily encryption codes from US to operate...
"Nobody will buy European weapons if they need approval from ten different countries every time the weapons are needed."
Yes they do... just like everyone buys weapons from US,France,UK,Turkey
.. you're clueless...
Also.. there's literally zero need to re-selkl to 3rd party... multi-country deals are made for internal use...
for example Patria 6x6 APC , AMV and Nemo system... clients buy them for themselves, not for Re-sell/Upsell lol...
"The best merchant is war. It turns iron into gold."
- Friedrich von Schiller (1759 - 1805)
The fact is war is loss. And most merchants will loose in wartime. The truth is poets like Schiller dont know shit about the merchant world. He was anything but a merchant.
Blood has a lot of iron indeed...
The one thing that was at least historically correct though, is you get a declining empire when it gets rich, and you get lots of birth, growth and togetherness after war. New growth after a forest fire id you will.
Not sure this still applies though. With the world globalized, you dont have to stay in a warm torn country like you ised to.@@Paciat
Broken Windows fallacy. Wars destroy economies generally. Unless your sitting on the sidelines as a third party making sales or your competitors are destroyed.
@@Paciat pseudo intellectuals like you call rearrangement of fortune a loss, poor you.
You're the first person ever to call the American military industrial lobby as a win-win for all parties. Lobbying comes down to legal ways of bribing politicians, subverting democracy.
It's not a democracy. It's a constitutional republic with democratically elected representatives.
Not really. Bribery would be if the politicians got the money. Instead their district gets it, which is kinda the point of having representation on congress..
@@neeneko How do districts get unrestricted campaign donations?
@@neenekowhat kind of disinformation is that? What American civilian benefits from the billions spent by the American-Israeli lobby?(AIPAC). Nobody benefits only corrupt elites and corporations benefit from unchecked public spending
@Ramschat
America’s 34th POTUS, Dwight D. Eisenhower warned about the U.S. military industrial complex in his final speech.
"America takes care of its friends, or at least it's customers.." How does that Kissinger quote about American allies go again?
As an american, we dont need allies. Allies is why everyone hates us. Even allies hate us. We want to go back home. Our biggest mistake was saving europe in ww1 and ww2. It led us to the world police.
Only if it's "friends" pay tribute to it amd accept vassal status.
It’s about time the EU took care of its own security needs. The one thing this war by Putin has produced is an awareness that Russia has expansionist imperial ambitions. This was NEVER believed .. even after the Crimea invasion. America takes care of its friends as both WW1 and WW2 saw. But this time, America wants EU to pay for its own meal, not always looking for a free meal from USA … a country that has its own spending needs.
@@GrigRP Modern day Roman Republic.
I dunno, how does it go?
And to think, that we, Baltic states, were called alarmists and delusional when we warned about russian threat. Better late than never, but even better early than late.
Shocking how the rest rejected baltic concerns.
But that’s thanks to the success of Russian economic industry and political influence/propaganda on those countries.
I mean, you are in NATO
baltic countries have been totally hostile to Russia post 1991….you guys should be careful and work diplomatically instead of your current hostility, In an event of war between Nato and Russia -baltic countries will likely be depopulated completely, it does not matter if nato eventually wins or russia wins ,Baltics will be history
because that's what you are, delusional. But you will get it in the end. You we're fooled by the transatlantic, warmongering money-grabbers.
womp womp
The three most important things would be:
A: Faster procurement and certification of new systems.
B: Long term planning security for manufacturers through long term contracts.
C: A system like in the USA where the state pays companies to keep manufacturing capacity even if it currently is not needed, meaning that the state pays the rent and maintenance for currently inactive production lines for weapons so they can be reactivated when needed.
@CaspianReport
Hello, I noticed that map shown at 11:07 has Latvian capital shown as Aloja. I think this is not the first time I've noticed it, I hope you can change it to actual capital Riga.
Interesting! For whatever it's worth, there's actually a town called Aloja in Latvia, and its location is right around the spot drawn on the map. Riga is much south to Aloja, at the bottom of the gulf - the Gulf of Riga.
Most likely this is stock footage created maybe by the EU.
its their engagement hook for this video - the video editor makes a "silly mistake" that is worthwhile to mention for the audience but doesnt make the video channel seem incompetent
His map of "Britain" in the video opening is also wrong
@@LarsOfMars. The maps are probably made with AI.
I hate wars, i dislike military spending but Ukraine woke me up. I'm happy to spend 5% minimum up to 10% of the annual budget now.
Relying on USA to defend us has gotten old and they're also tired of it which i completely understand when we don't even pay the minimum set out in the nato rules.
The budget cuts that would require 10% are ludicrous when EU states are already in debt. Meanwhile, money that would multiply in an economy normally would now be lost in equipment that gets destroyed. Point being that you're underestimating the threat economic stagnation, recession and unemployment would have for democracy. You'd be creating a much bigger monster than the one you think you're taming.
@@Crusherix Why did Ukraine wake you up?
The us also gains from being Europe's "guardian", the foreign policy of the eu is being decided in Washington.
Just wait until the us armtwists nato into setting up a base in japan. THEN look at who you're going to have on your doorstep. The Ru will be only too happy to oblige them. There's plenty of reason to be pessimistic, but not for the reasons you think. All of you keep defining yourselves by the grand moral narratives of ww2, and hence following a thought process that only makes a big war more, not less, likely. You're actively turning away pathways to peace in favor of ever more confrontation and hostility.
Ukraine Provoked Russia.
America Provoked Russia.
Just so we're absolutely crystal clear even if Putin invasion is illegal, and imo unjustified.
As a American myself. You guys better figure it out. Cuz I don't care what language your grandchildren speak. Europe isn't America's responsibility.
Yugoslavia was not in the Soviet sphere of influence, it was its own thing, a combination east and west. That is why it developed a bit differently than those truly behind the iron curtain. Tito did not get along with Stalin who tried to assassinate him leading to the famous quote: "Stalin. Stop sending people to kill me! We’ve already captured five of them, one with a bomb and another with a rifle… If you don’t stop sending killers, I’ll send one to Moscow, and I won’t have to send another." my parents grew up with western music, clothes, cultural influences, and were allowed to travel outside of the country with relative ease. They felt more at ease traveling to America in the early 70s then they did to Warsaw Pact Countries, the latter in which the literally had a "minder" following them around.
Denmark has no artillery.... Because it's all in Ukraine actually being put to use. Maybe you should mention that?
In Poland we laugh at our cold war military cause its task was to capture Denmark. It was an unimportant front cause when do you go from Denmark when you invade it?
So why do you think Denmark needs artillery on its soil. What did the artillery do when Germans invaded you? More or less than it is doing now in Ukraine?
@@Paciat Denmark is home to multiple important harbors, and is crucial to control, if Russia wants it navy in and out its port in ST. Petersburg. What are you talking about.
@@Paciat Well, based on history, you go on to Norway.
@@richdobbs6595 - Instead of buying more weapons, Norway should just say that whatever pay a foreign solider gets landing on Norwegian land is trippled if switches side. Much cheaper solution.
That's still not a good thing you shouldn't send all of your capacity to another country
Don't get me wrong I am glad Denmark is helping out the ukrainians but at the same time you would be foolish to send all of what you have and are left with nothing
>"The only company that produces products designed to be destroyed"
>Forgets Apple exists
You are thinking of designed obsolescence.
Not true. Got an XR in 2018 and working to this day.
you apple haters are so cringe…
Fking lmao
@@PresidentEvil
If only it was false. Watch Louis Rossman videos and come back to it. Don't bring the "oh he doesn't know shit", he provided way enough evidence with many hundred videos repairing macbooks over many generations. They seriously either are so stupid, or are actually so darn smart they specifically make the same engineering errors again and again that kills the laptop under certain environment conditions.
But of course, so surprising that these big corps are greedy, why even defend lol. You aren't getting a single percent discount.
please, yugoslavia wasn't in the soviet bloc.
Balkan spotted
All of its weapons were, well the shit yugos couodnt copy
The logical thing to do would be to cultivate local industries in each country in fields they excell at. And integrate those.
Like Tanks from Poland/germany, italian planes and french nuclear arsenal.
But I doubt that will be a thing.
That goes against individual country's interest and also creates overreliance on another nation for their own security.
@@ElBanditowhich is exactly what we need now if we want a unified european army.
@@jovan_64 Is that army going to defend european borders from migrant invasion or from russian invasion only?
@@ElBandito Exactly for that.
@@jovan_64 Do I, as a citizen of the Eastern Flank, want a "european" army, that is commanded from Paris and Berlin? Will it defend my border as well, as it will eat my taxes? I doubt it.
It will not "escalate", as it's not in Western European interest.
Who wants to die for Danzig, after all, right?
We've been betrayed before and I don't trust any other country to defend us, when we don't have our own army, commanded from our capital and with our own production capacity.
Well, Denmark had one submarine, but they decided to destroy it and throw the captain in jail...
@@hackmind I don't think you got the reference.
That is because it got sunk twice, how gullible most one be to open the hach on a sub just because some knocking on it.
Because he ate people...
@@KD-wl3fk It is a old joke: How do you sink a danish sub? -You swim down and knock on the hach. How do you sink the danish sub twice? -You swim down once more and knock on the hach. This time the danes open the hach and say: I will not fall for that one, twice...
Is that the Captain that killed the reporter ??
In the US, most ammunition production is owned by the US government and staffed by contractors. This allows for a largely underused and therefore uneconomical peace time production capacity that can be rapidly scaled up for war. Other military spending programs are funding National Guard units and placing military bases in states that do not have enough manufacturing capacity such that highly ruralized states, like Wyoming, still gets $476 million in defense spending ($822 per resident), Vermont at $845, North Dakota at $1,165, Montana at $586, and Idaho at $356.
If you want to live in peace, prepare for the war.
And? Do u know who you're quoting?
@@NotUnymous Re-read and focus on the message itself. Fight with your adhd, r*Zian bot.
@@NotUnymous Si vis pacem para bellum - Flavius Vegetius Renatus
Because “war” is an indefinite noun when taken from the Latin, you shouldn’t add “the” to “the war.” Just say “war” if you want to sound more grammatically correct, since it’s referring to war as a concept and not a specific war.
@@aguy3082mandarinas is a Spanish language speaker. Has Spanish as first language I'd bet!!
Denmark has donated a lot to Ukraine but they have more use for the weapons than Denmark and we are replacing the weapons as soon as possible.
That's right. Thanks, Denmark.
It is the " as soon as possible" that is the problem. Europeans don't have production capacity. And we rely to much on American industry, which means we loose economically and we loose in times of war. Because in times of war American industry will primarily supply their military with equipment and what is left over is for export.
Yugoslavia was not a part of Soviet Union. Mistake.
I think he's screwed up in this video more than he really should. He's usually very good but ... Perhaps he lost his editor?
It was under their influence like other Balkan countries.
@@zohzuTwo Balkan countries, Greece and Turkey became the members of NATO in 1952. Tito kept Yugoslavia a neutral country despite its political system and it didn't join to the Warsaw Pact in 1955. During the Cold War the Non-Aligned Movement was founded in Belgrad in 1961 with countries like Yugoslavia, India, Indonesia, Egypt and Ghana.
"In the Soviet Union or in the Soviet Sphere of influence" he said regarding Eastern European states
@@xr2kid tito was at odds with ussr almost at every turn
One of the major factor is that talents in Europe HATE Military and anything related to it.
So it is not easy to find required human & financial capitals for such project.
It is all because of the media and it can also fix the problem.
This is temporary. All you need is more images of the horror in Ukraine because they are close physically, culturally and white (easier to empathize) to realize war is the norm not the exception. For example, I am skeptical of military invention as in Iraq or Libya where we brought instability and chaos on our doorstep, however to protect the continent it's different.
Not true. Europeans are not more pacifistic than other people. Plenty of people have no problem working in the defence industry.
@@TheSilver2001Copium. Europeans know their rulers support Israel doing the same thing, then they tell you to care about Ukraine. This is not conducive to good morale.
Just pay them. EU has a lot of poor countries, if you know what i mean
In 2023 Europe has spent more than 500 billions of € on defence, that’s a massive sum so I don’t see the need to increase it further, the problem is that a lot of that money is spent to buy USA weapons, instead Europe should spend that money on European weapons manufacturers to boost the economy and create more jobs here.
Nobody is interested in hearing how much Europe spends or that Europe spends 5 times as much on its military as Russia or that it has a much larger and more competent military than Russia.
It doesn't spend as much as USA so clearly it wouldn't win a war against Russia and needs a larger military, cause why compare Europe to the expected opponent when you can compare it to the only larger country in the world that spends more than Europe and which is its ally?
Fully agree that Europe spends more than enough and the only thing it needs is to move that spending from buying American to producing itself.
@@freedomfighter22222 what are you talking about? We dont have nearly enough artillery shells, missles, tanks, jets,.... Sure Europe would win against russia (if all countries helped) but there would be a huge cost, we need to dwarf the russian military to discourage any russian agression. And the americans simply produce the best stealth weapons. Im in favor of investing more into local european weapons development tho, its always good to be self sufficient when it comes to defense.
If it isn't even 2% then it's not enough. It's not merely "a spending number" but a supply chain and training culture that has to be integral to a nation. Spending under a certain amount does not allow this to expand, you'll be a stagnant and third rate power forever. Most of that money is only coming from a few nations, what about the rest? You think Lativa is really capable of fighting Russia?
@@captainalex157the problem is that there is no such country "Europe" and no European army. With proper politics Russia can discourage EU countries from fighting for each other. And no, the US will not show up, that's a fact. They are fine with Europeans risking their people (including civilians) by fighting in America's wars in the middle east, but will never risk fighting a nuclear power to save Europe (or Taiwan).
Eventually, EU must become a confederation with national states slowly dissolving in the union as by their own they are mostly irrelevant.
As for the domestic weapons production, European countries must ramp it up (including aforementioned stealth fighters and nuclear weapons) at least in order not to pay the US. As the latter want not just 2% military budgets, but most of it going into their military industrial complex.
Except it's the technology that is so costly. 500b is not nearly enough to R&D and then production.
"Europeans can either step up or start learning Russian"
I was half expecting a Duolingo ad after that lol
Russia is nowhere near Europe. Like other saying say "NATO didn't yet arrived".
One of major problems of this war is exactly that European states are too smart to send they actual weapons.
"...This portion of the video is sponsored by Duolingo"
This is nonsense. Russia couldn't beat Ukraine decisively, much less Ukraine, Poland plus any other European power. Russia's whole economy does not even equal any of Europe's top 3 economic powers.
Was NATO expansion a big mistake ? YES, but that was what Washington wanted. It actually ruined the security of Europe (meanwhile Washington's wars in Iraq, Syria, and Libya left Europe exposed to the real danger from the Middle East & Africa.
In other words, Europe is in more danger of speaking Arabic than Russian.
@@TheRezro they border the Baltic countries, Poland and Finland so they're pretty damn close to Europe
@@MykytaSpivak-ne3cw But not on the civilization level. Russia do not have any chances to win with NATO.
The last couple of decades there was a growing sentiment that war in Europe was almost impossible, weapon manufacturers all over Europe started closing due to lack of funding or backlash from outrage culture, all of that changed in the last 5-10 years.
You dont need to go back far in history to realize how much experience alot of our memberstates have, we have been fighting eachother for centurys afterall, now all of those near forgotten industrys and expertises are seeing the light of day again, now because we want to, but because we have to.
And this time its not a bunch of individual actors playing wargames for their own interest, its a global superpower with some of the best infrastructure and skilled workers in the world, watch what happens when they start taking military power serious again.
I think Cold War conscription was always impopular. But you could justify it by pointing to the Soviets.
There has not been a century in recorded history without at least one major war in Europe. Anyone who thought this century would be different is a fool.
Even if we disregard the past thousands of years of human existence, animals in groups still defend themselves and their companions from attacks. Anyone who wants to eradicate a defensive military or militia of any kind is insane.
Facts. Military will always be needed. Even if Humans were all at peace. We never know if Aliens start invading. 🤷
@@WallNutBreaker524 Aliens already here, little green men on Crimea
Europe needs to have its own military organisation like nato WITHOUT USA.
The EU literally has a defense treaty/organization separate from NATO
@@Motolav Still figuring out the armed forces part of it though, which I'm sure they will.
We could call it Europe!
Then fucking pay for it. No one is stopping the Europeans from paying the bills and doing it themselves.
This is true but it’s odd when it’s worded as if America is in opposition to a more useful Europe, especially the American Right, which constantly complains that the EU is weak.
The only thing i dont like about growing a weapons industry is its influence of politics down the line. Lobbying for wars and conflicts in other parts of the world so they have customers. I dont want Europe to become like USA...
Peace is far more profitable than war, the money lobbied by the owners of military production plan is peanuts compared to the money from consumer product producers.
It is not lobbying or having a "large" military industrial complex that makes US politics so weird, Walmart is worth more money than the entire military industrial complex of the USA together...
MIC was originally called the Military Industrial Congressional Complex, because it’s a problem caused by the law that any money appropriated by Congress must be spent by the President. There’s no reason any other country has to fall into this legal vortex.
As someone who lives in Europe and consistently sees controversy-stirrers like Elon Musk claim that the US pays too much to 'protect' Europe (anyone who spends 2 minutes thinking will know why exactly the US does this), this is great news. Of course, I hope EU doesn't copy everything from the MIC in the US (therefore having an incentive to trigger forever wars), but it needs to have enough weapons to show US that it isn't completely desolated without it.
EU is only German tool too build 4 Rich.
So why do they do it?
In the last decades 5% US defense budget went to NATO, not sure how this is too much when NATO followed the US for the wars america started.
A european MIC will do exactly the same the american MIC does since the same people will own it so no, it's not good news.
@@dr94279 because Europe is the US’s biggest trade partner.
Yugoslavian territory was never under the influence of Russia since 1948.
This channel is compromised. Russia is only taking action to protect Ethnic Russians of the post-USSR Ruso-Diaspora
Hehe. Good joke!
LOL, u mad bro?
Good joke
@@dorn885 Yugoslavia was the only country in WW2 to liberate themselves. Unlike the French and Russians
I feel like this will be temporary, unless there's enough support for it or a politician decides to enact to it
Yeah, and it's honestly terrifying.
Imagine Trump wins and forces Ukraine to settle for a sham "peace".
5-10 years pass and Russia has rearmed and is ready for another round.
If Europe has no solid american support, and is caught unprepared, what will happen?
That was a great look into military Logistical issues.
🇨🇦 Army Vet
Thanks for the coffee!
“Europeans can either step up or start learning Russian”
A bit alarmist don’t you think?
3:35 Skip ads.
my add blocker already did
@@erdal0which one?
Thanks
@@indobalkanizer6557sponsorblock
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Thought provoking, as usual. Thanks for the post
You do amazing work, guys!
Thanks for the support!
Even in my small Baltic country Latvia, we started to produce together with Finland the best winter armory vehicle Patria 6x6, and new ammunition factory will be finished in 2025. And thats tiny 1.8 million country near Russia.
That we live in a world where *"fresh debt"* is seen as a viable and reasonable solution to problems is harrowing.
Government debt is a myth
@@michaelsurratt1864 Nope. It's an epic poem.
your ground news ad is rhe only integrated sponsorship i have ever not fast forwarded. great way of doing it, thank you.
An excellent video. 100% correct. Except for the fact that the EU needs 1000 billion euros to build up defences and to ensure the defeat of Russia in Ukraine. As all big wars are mainly financed by debt, so will this one as well. Thus new common debt will have to be issued. Putin is a much more dangerous disrase than Covid after all...
So… 1 trillion?
@@dev_not_null That would be overestimating the intellectual, millitary and tactical capabilities of Vladolfomir Vladolfomirich Putler by a factor of said trillion.
So, my little Ruzzian misinformation post-truth delusional propagandist bot, we meet again.......
But you´re right,- a 1000 billion would be a trillion.....
would rather have Putin as my president than any gay-loving-promoting western leader.
Should be doable.
Europe has about 5 times the workforce and industry that Russia has and about 7 times it's economy.
If Draghi, who was entrusted by Ursula and supported by Macron (these 3 people are from Italy, Germany and France ... Which is a big factor here), has his way with his report perhaps we will witness a new EU, an EU that acts more and more as a single federation (keep in mind I said "Acts"), borrows money and plans strategies from Brussels, instead of having 27 different countries trying to antagonize each other to the top
At 11.08 when talking about the Baltics, Aloja is highlighted and appears as a capital of Latvia. That is a bit funny since it is a small town of less than 1.000 people. Our capital is Riga
1:34 Yugoslavia was not under Soviet influence
Stop confusing Europe with EU thanks.
Europe wasn’t taking advantage of America their protection. Europe just didn’t see the need to waste money on an army they weren’t about to use, because we lived in a time where it was much more beneficial to make trading partners than to invade a country. Sadly times have changed and Europe has some catching up to do. Europe is not like the United States, so creating a “European army” is only easy in speaking the words. Although because of what happened with Russia and Ukraine there is a much stronger will to create a stronger and connected Europe, with a strong military. And trust me, when that day comes Europe will be the biggest power in the world with room to spare. It will just be very hard and i bet USA, China etc aren’t even considering it because Europe is so diverse a real united Europe seems almost impossible.
Russia is not the biggest threat, islamization is
Ok mr john doe
Both are
Brainwashed
And Russia is buddy with Iran, tells you everything to know
Refering the American 's allies as "loyal customer" is cool as hell 😂
Inability to utilize Swiss munitions b/c they will not budge from their non-aligned policy is ludicrous. Switzerland benefits immensely by being behind the protective barrier of Germany, Poland and Ukraine. First thing on the EU defence industry agenda ought to be to patriate the production of those munitions and to eliminate any other reliance on Switzerland for defence materiel.
Man, the way you describe things. I am thoroughly impressed with your capabilities of explaining impossibly complex mechanisms.
From Norway with Love
"The defence industry is unique because it makes products to be destroyed." Well, that's very similar to the food industry, which makes products to be consumed.
@CaspianReport I come from the ex-Yugoslavian state of Bosnia and Herzegovina. Ill tell you one thing. Yugoslavia was never under the control or heavy influance of the USSR. I dont like the map shown at 1:37. I know its easy to disregard becouse the world sees Tito as just another Dictator. but ill tell you that, this Dictator (yes he was) pulled the Southslavic people from the Feudal era straight into the modern age. you dont see that often happen, a Dictator actually serving the intrests of the people.
Brainwashed by putin's propaganda. Funny how Balkan "supports" putin and dreams of joining the EU.
He was dictator with no positive effects, as politian he was perfect with his unrealistic picturing of yugoslavia, his army and what it has done it's another atrocity, but fact is that he was not under ussr influence , tito was preparing for war with ussr at some point
Shirvan, while it is true the Defence industry in the US creates some jobs, it also directly contributes to the sl*ughtrr of thousands of people overseas. Also, I find it interesting that you omitted to mention how the Defence industry lobbies (legal bribes) elected officials, this video is very bias and seems to encourage European rearmament, criticism of Covid and taking the US system as a model.
As if the USA stopped exporting arms the rest of the world would just refuse to buy elsewhere. @Abdulak is insane
I’ve always enjoyed your content. I appreciate your style of analysis. May you continue to make videos for years to come.
As a Europeist and European citizen I would gladly purchase Military Bonds with the declared purpose of laying the foundations for a EU military complex issued by the ECB, and I believe many like me across Europe would do so too.
Furthermore, if you want to measure the peoples allegiance to the European Union why not let their money talk? As it so happens this would also undermine the leverage local governments have on their citizens towards a more Confederated model, which is the desired outcome.
I wish we wouldn't obfuscate these discussions by calling it 'defense'.
It's war and it should be called war.
"Defense" is easier to marketing to the public. War is pretty unpopular.
To be fair, if it helps the sector, they can call it "preventive physical safety" or any other bullshit, that's fine my me.
It could be called attack also. But he mentioned starting conflicts. So where will Europe start? This is largely theoretical as USA takes care of their defence /attack issues
That didn't test well with focus groups
@@alioshax7797 That's why they renamed Department of War to DoD.
@@angelawhitehead6187propably somewhere in the middle east or caucasus... Europe is actually dependent on foreign oil/gas supplys and conquering those would be a great thing for Europe.
1: France actually buys -and co produce- Italian, UK, Spanish, German and others weapon systems so your example is not correct. 2: European systems have also been increasingly cooperations between European countries. 3: The main bottleneck has been the US -with a big help from Germany- that lobbied and bullied for decades to ensure dependence to US systems. To put it simple, the US wants Europe to spend on US weapons.. controlled by the US (making them hard to be compatible, just like Apple). Hence an independence risk that Bush and Trump highlighted. EU countries woke up and are slow to materialise what they realised, but they will make it happen. I believe things will accelerate from now on. The capacity of these states to invest during the Cold War is not to forget.
Europe needs to take their Defence industry into their own hands and create a more interconnected and standardized system between the members of the EU and beyond 💙💛💙
Nope, that is silly, because diffrent nations have diffrent biodomes, diffrent military doctrine. Diffrent weapons. diffrent guns.
@EcardEcardian not to mention that there are countries that don't get along with other EU members, on paper this idea is good in reality it if ever works it's all about money flow
@@clown711 Some EU members hates each others guts due to history. Than you got the ones that join the ordeal and do things their own way regardless. Money flow, well there are some money makers and some money black wholes. It is not good in the long run, it drains the weathy ones to keep the failed weak ones afloat. Normally they will collapes and reform, but it just keeps the weathy ones down.
Fragmentation is good this allows for more competition and this allows us to keep the general defense industry high tech and high quality. Otherwise we can become like Boeing barely capable to keep its own planes in the air and humiliated in space 🚀
1:37 UA-camrs cant seem to finally learn that Yugoslavia was not a part of the Warsaw Pact, and this is a geopolitical channel...try not to be Johnny Harris level.
The time period spanning from the end of WW2 in 1945 until Russia invaded Ukraine in 2022 was the longest single era of peace for Europe in it's entire history.
So we are just pretending that Kosovo didn't happen or???
@@Sara3346 Kosovo and Bosnia weren’t major engagements.
President Putin has always mourned the loss of the Soviet Union ...
Putin : "Anyone who doesn't regret the passing of the Soviet Union has no heart. Anyone who wants it restored has no brains." 🤐
A 3rd Imperium is his goal.
That's about not restoring it.
No communism anymore is the main thesis here.
He wants to install a 3rd Imperium.
No communism anymore is the main thesis here.
Soviet union was a million times better than current shit hole Russia. The Soviet Union had actually talent and skill, current Russia lost 1 million tech workers when they invaded Ukraine, it's a massive brain drain and nothing will fix it.
yeah. the more you know the bias is visible in the video
also putin about the ussr “the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century"
The Allies and GDI live on!
It should be mandatory for every member state to have, depending on its size, at least one huge factory that focuses on the production of war gear.
Not to mention, the entire continent needs one single leader that will unite it under the values of Humanity, Science, Logic and Reasoning and in the process form the Imperium of Europe.
It's back to regional powers and localism. One thing is for sure: there will be many low-intensity conflicts to come and the possibility of all-out conflicts between conflicting power blocks. The Americans are inevitably withdrawing to fight among themselves, so Europeans, we're on our own and must look to defend ourselves.
I think that is hard to combine with Greater Hungary or France First.
If Russia didn't want NATO on its doorstep they should be more friendly and respect our borders. Europe could become as militarily strong as the USA if it has to in order to protect itself.
Russia was friendly, Putin wanted to join NATO when he took power, he asked Bush can Russia join NATO and they refused and incorporated more and more east European countries and pushed Putin to take aggressive stance towards NATO. It takes two to tango my friend.
@@Sava.SThe only reason Putin wanted to join the EU was to destabilise it from within, same with NATO. He never acted in good faith, his only plan was to build his military then attack his neighbours. He wants to rebuild the Soviet Union, I hope Russian people are ready for queueing for bread and salt. He thinks he's Catherine the Great reborn! Name a country that joined NATO since 1990 who was forced to join against its will. Same with the EU, these countries joined for protection because they know that Russia is not a good neighbour.
@@patrickh8602Russia didn't enslave half the world, UK did, Russia didn't carve up the world and created almost all moder conflicts, UK did, and now God is returning everything to UK by replacing English people with those who you enslaved, frankly you are cooked, so goodby.
@@Sava.S Based Bush 🗿
The problem is Nato wanted to be at doorsteps
I think its the first time I watched a report of yours. Very very informative. Thank you. I have subscribed.
In European case, excessive reliance on USA proves to be not good. Europeans seem to be aware of excessive reliance on China, but why do Europe seem ignorant all these times when dealing with USA? Wisdom dictates that no entity such as kingdom, empire, country, republic, caliphate, dynasty, etc. remains wise forever. Weak entity embarks on strengthening their system though education, technology, human development, ancient wisdom principals, etc. which subsequently reap the benefit/investment during their golden age time that follows. However, it also sows the seeds of subsequent destruction and decline through decadence, wealth gap, societal moral decline, emphasising excessive values (such as sinful behaviours, excessive individual rights/so-called “freedom” in USA case), etc. This culminates in the downfall and the end of the entity itself. The cycle repeats. Thus, we can see the timeless logical cause-effect relationship that governs the rise and fall of those entities since the ancient times.
Knowing such wisdom, why do Europe seems ignorant all these times and choose to put themselves into excessive reliance on USA, such that to dismantle from it would be costly?
Funny how lots of western countries mocked France for trying to be independent from the US. It seems that it was righ all along.
It's military hardware are almost entirely home made, it's has an independant nuclear deterence, it is one of the best military exporter in the world and one of the strongest military in Europe.
@@ML-oq8cu France is not independent from NATO, only NATO's command structure, meaning US/NATO personnel cannot directly control a French Army Corp. They are still integral to the alliance. Don't make up stuff. If anyone is being criticized, it's the Germans since they're the major power who's really lacking to the point of no fully functional army formations. West Germany had a more powerful army.
@@Knight_Kin I've Never said that France was independent of nato. I've said that France is independent from the US... that two different things.
My point is that the French foreign policy has always been since Charles de Gaulle to seek strategic independence. particularly with regard to the United States.
This strategy has gradually evolved towards European strategic autonomy but the idea remains the same.
Many countries have criticized this approach.
Gents! United We Stand!
It is about time Europe came out from under the shadow of WWII and loss of Empire. European countries need to reform their constitutions, add freedom of speech, and the right to bear arms. European governments should fear their people, not the other way around.
the most american comment i've ever read
Some European countries don't have constitutions, most have freedom of speech. And the right to bear arms doesn't matter
People tend to gloss over the flip side of this though : all that money NOT being spent on defense IS being spent on other parts of the economy. They counterbalance the US's heavy spending in one sector by supporting, well, all the others. If the EU shifts its priorities and starts burning capital on somethin with so little return, that impacts the world economy.
well, yes, but also no. A lot of U.S. startup companies, particularly in aerospace, receive research and development grants from the DoD. The military spends a lot of money on technological development, and most of those technologies have civilian applications. I know for a fact that the Air Force funded a U.S. startup's ramjet engine development, which they hope to turn into a civilian supersonic passenger plane. Another startup is working with the DoD to develop a new tanker aircraft, which they eventually want to use for air freight. So, yes, over-investment in the military *can* affect the economy, but it can also be a major tech stimulant. Europe really needs that, to be honest.
I believe that many French startups also work closely with French military development, so this isn't unique to America.
a lot of tech research was and is being done in the military sector.
in the late 60's a US military research program called ARPANET establishes the first nodes connecting research institutions computers. skip forward to 1990, the decommissioning of ARPANET, the privatization opens for commercial entities to build and operate their own networks, ISPs are born.
one thing led to another and now internet is responsible directly and indirectly for how much of the civil economy?
@@Qnexus7 *sigh* that doesn't matter. It is not a question of if defense spending has benfit, it is that there is only so much resources in an economy, and the more you put into one sector the less developed the others become
The ARPA net is not a very good example anyway. Several sectors came together to develop the technology around that.. the only reason the military played such an outsized role is it had the most money to burn, and gave the least back since it put its its parts behind a wall.
Mostly it worked because military spending flowed into academia... alternatively, we could have just cut out the middle man and funded basic research directly. Instead we have ended up with a system where academic research is intentionally crippled so as not to hurt recruitment too much.
@@neeneko “there are only so many resources in an economy…the more you put into one sector, the less developed the others are”
I mean, yes, that’s true as far as it goes. Thing is, countries and companies both change their priorities all the time. There’s nothing new or strange about it. Just because a sector has historically received outsized attention doesn’t mean that it must continue to do so.
@@davidblair9877 yes, it happens all the time. but on these scales, it has to be part of the conversation. We are talking shifts of potentially multiple percentage points of GDP. And since this is public sector funding, the question of 'who gets shafted' is likely to be an outsizied issue.
"It's a win-win all round". Well it's certainly a win for the weapons manufacturers, not so much for democracy or the citizens footing the bill...
being able to defend your country from being annexed by a military expansionist dictatorship is good for democracy
I won't disagree that there's not problems with the American style of the defense industry but if you live in a democracy you are footing the bill regardless of every time you pay your taxes
And that footing the bill isn't specific to the defense industry it applies to literally everything the government gets involved in
Of course it is a win, you have jobs openings in High tech that otherwise wouldn't exist
Thank you, you are highly coherent about these complexities and challenges that Europe faces.
If you have money but not the time then Europe will need to buy from American arms manufacturers while they build up themselves.
To fight who?
Russia is a tin pot. They're using t54s and golf carts with cope cages.
They're ready to fight a 1990s war.
That just creates dependancy and removes any incentive to build up our own capabilities.
Germany lacked fighter jets. Once they bought American ones, the need of building up a solid industry in that sector feels less urgent.
The EU should drastically reduce its weapon import from the US. Now. We already produce pretty much any kind of weapon we can think of, albeit slowly. Us not buying our own stuff is nonsense.
Just a note that at 0:30 the UK is labelled as 'Britain', which is incorrect. Its a small mistake but one worth mentioning. Also as someone else mentioned the Latvian capital at 11:05 is also wrong.
I think the UK is better, though many shorten its full name (The United Kingdom’s of Great Britain and Northern Ireland) to Britain, or the UK. So I guess both are legitimate. But again, I would use UK
amazing as always!
The problem is that the weapons are treated as "belonging to a country". EU needs to make its own army and its own military industrial complex, so that they will design and build all the weapons together. Like the design of Eurofighter Typhoon. Its not a french aircraft and its not a german aircraft. As long as every country gets some benefit from building weapons together, then it should be all that matters.
But here is the probleme. France quit the euro fighter typhoon because the project wasn't suitable for the french army.
France needed plane that could be carrier capable while the UK and germany didn't want one, or at least didn't want to pay for that capabiliy. Witch is why France developed the rafale.
The thing that people tend to forget is that europ is not a country. It is an amalgamation of à lot of countries whitch all have their own interest and foreign policies. It is complicated to make common development project because all the countries need different things. Some have a lot of oversee territories, some have doctrine for quantity of light armored vehicules other need heavily armored vehicules... etc
The thing is, in military tech and procurment the budget is not infinit so you need to make concessions. But each country will want to make different concessions to fit their needs.
Each European nation should also give up any pretense to individual sovereignty, bow down to the unelected bureaucrats in Brussels. They very Bureaucrats that care so much about the indigenous Europeans that they are flooding each nation with pillaging barbarians under the guise of economic growth.
Face it, the EU and in this instance the post Cold War NATO has screwed Europe
As a Hungarian, being from a nation that is heavily Pro-Russian, the EU should make it legally binding to follow the defence policy they'd create, don't let slackers like our current government ruin it all.
Im not understanding your country at all? Why so pro russian
@@All-f5m Because dictators often like to work together until it doesnt benefit them anymore.
@@leventekocsis9103 bro, you are so brainwashed you better stop paying for your internet
Great video, please keep making them!
Another great one, thanks guys!❤❤❤
Aside from the regular army, Asia is sending its criminals from prison
watch the movie "Day of the falcon" about the discovery of oil in Saudi Arabia; good strategy
I learn more in your video about Europe than in any media in Europe as a French. Expect maybe ARTE.
Stellar job.
Map on 1:32 has an error. Socialist Federative Republic of Yugoslavia(encompassing Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Macedonia and Monte Negro) was never part of Warsaw Pact.
Yup exactly right. A Croat born in Yugoslavia here.
Then again, this dude is outright spewing propaganda in favor of us allowing lobbying like in the US i.e. legalizing bribery.
Worse yet, he calls tying politics to the military industry lobby a win-win.
Basically, don't take him seriously.
It’s the blocs, not military alliances. There are also white countries that weren’t in NATO.
@@fridrekr7510 And again it would be wrong. In 1948 Yugoslavia, then as a Federal People's Republic of Yugoslavia(FPRY) or in Serbian FNRJ, split with Soviet Union. If we use 1947 as a starting point of Cold War(Stalin rejecting the Marshall plan) we can argue that for that brief period of one year Yugoslavia(FPRY) might be considered as part of that block. But it's absolutely irrelevant for broader discussion, since starting from 1948 Yugoslavia diverted from Soviet Planned economy, to a system which had some elements of market economy and many reforms started which shifted it further away from Soviet sphere of influence ultimately resulting in formation of Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia(SFRY).
Furtere in case of the map on this video wrong. Why it's wrong, well because on the map it's Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia(SFRY) or SFRJ in Serbian. The obvious difference is the absence of Free Territory of Trieste which is included in Italian territory. So the creator made and error by including SFRY in Eastern bloc(as you say). But to put a side what's on the map, point is no political map includes Yugoslavia in any form(be it FPRY or SFRY) as a part of Soviet sphere of influence. Point is Yugo-Soviet split occurred to soon for any such inclusion to be relevant and Yugoslavia was the crucial country in creation of Non-Aligned movement. And should be always viewed as part of Non-Aligned, since diplomatic effort started in 1950 Yugoslavia and India as initiators resulting in creation of movement, resulting in Brioni Declaration in 1956(de jure formation) and First Conference in Belgrade in 1961(de facto formation).
There you go I hope that cleared some things with this broader explanation.
Poland is making a strong effort to improve their military, but even Poland will only achieve a high level of preparedness in 2030 or so.
Let's be honest, Poland hopes to recover its territories from Ukraine and maybe has an eye on Lithuania. Against Belarus she has no chance, behind her is the whole of Eurasia. There remains Germany to the west, which is certainly not happy that it lost Silesia. You don't have to be ashamed, other countries also hope to recover territories now occupied by Kiev.
I am shocked by your headline "Make Europe dangerous again". The EU is at peace and some Americans were even complaining that the military budget was too small. So what is the problem? Should we buy our weapons elsewhere (The USA, F35?)? Sould we stop protecting ourselves? OF COURSE NOT. I believe the EU should have a defense system? Technically it poses no problem but it call for political integration (who will give orders to the military?). Sooner or later this will happen and V.Putin horrendous actions is only making the process faster.
I’m a European, and I decided to learn Russian
I'm not alone then
@@clown711 Ты не один
I dont care
Europe is running into the problem that they've always faced. You can't be "kinda" pregnant. Either you are, or your not. America faced the same issue early in our history with the Articles of Confederation. Each state wanted to control their own sovereignty. It made for a weak federal government, and as such, an impotent one. We reformed the government and adopted the Constitution and our modern form of government. Europe is facing the same thing. Either Europe is truly a union or its not. The current form of the EU is a failure. If it wants to remain it's going to have to take on dictatorial powers without actually being granted those powers, or the whole EU system will need to be reformed, and if a centralized federal government is to be formed, the only way that it will pass is guarantees of fundamental rights to its people (just as the US Constitution guarantees) in order to gain such support. The Europeans are too proud to look to the US to model its government after, so there's no way that they'll do that. As such, you're looking at the EU morphing into a dictatorial monstrosity, and member states fighting back against the change. It ultimately destined for failure one way or another.
I agree that EU must Federalize, I don't agree it's going to fail.
The current form of USA is also a failure, your federation is of the corporations, for the military and by the foreign lobbys. There is no people there. The US government is the biggest threat to the Constitution. Just let them take your guns and you'll see....
@@NoName-hg6cc, good luck convincing 27 different cultures with different languages to voluntarily lose their sovereignty.
If big federalised unions worked, we would still have Yugoslavia or the Soviet Union.
Europe is just too culturally diverse to have any unified front on pretty much anything.
Really good content mate. Very well produced and really informative script. No patronisation meant but if English isn’t your first language.. then the narration is excellent. Great work across the board guys 🙂
Eastern European countries need strong armies, they too must cooperate in the creation of a strong military-industrial complex.
Most Eastern European Countries are poor (relative to other European countries) so cannot possibly afford an extensive military-Industrial complex the defense of Europe is really dependent on Wealthy Western European Countries.
@@Gift-ll4nvThey are not poor, the living standards have improved a lot there, as such they must cooperate with the countries of Western Europe in order to strenghten their armies.
@@dragosstanciu9866 Yes I do agree that there living standards have improved but they are still significantly behind Western Europe in terms of Economic output and human development index and so are still poor (in European standards I emphasise).
I do agree that they will need the cooperation and subsidies which they currently receiving via the EU which is the major reason why their standard of living and economy’s have improve since they entered the EU.
@@Gift-ll4nv Yes, EU subsidies allowed them to modernize their economies, as such they must seek to develop strong armies, they have no choice, a strong army is a guarantee for safety and security, no matter the expenses and the time involved.
Poland and Romania are investing a lot in their armed forces, so there you go
What people, especially Americans whining about them "having" to defend Europe, forget is that the Old Continent is under the US defence umbrella because of the US.
In the past, the idea of a European army has popped up not once, but it was shut down by US lobby every single time. They feared that a Europe that's self-reliant in terms of defence, would make NATO, thus their influence in the region, obsolete.
They also need their bases in Europe. Few know that most bases are not allowed to conduct any operations outside the premises of the bases themselves. In other words, they are not there to defend the state they're in, they're essentially logistical F.O.B.s for their African and Middle Eastern operations.
Now obviously, yes, Europe became complacent, but can you blame us? It's the logical thing to do if you know that others will protect you, whether you want it or not.
I personally support rearmament, uniforming procurement to reduce the number of different systems the states purchase, the EU Army, and most importantly Strategic autonomy. We must become a separate power, distancing ourselves from American interests, decreasing hostility towards China. If (or when) the two go to war over Taiwan, we must stay neutral. Our only concern should be keeping Russia at bay and dealing with the migrant crisis by means of remigration as well as taking control over Africa. They clearly failed to manage their own countries ever since they gained independence. It's time we gave them the leadership the so clearly lack.
Post war US policy wanted a dependent Europe. 1) it ensured no new Western European wars 2) this funded US industrial base . If not for Trump, Europe wouldn't be nervous. The US doesn't need an arms sales rival
Ukraine was a diplomatic failure but Europe does not understand.
I don't understand how much tax money do we all need to waste in ukraine, yeah sure help them it's all great in pink sunglasses but in reality they got so much help more than any country and they are still losing territory and there is no chance for mayor operation to liberate even 2% of territory in next at least 2 years
Sounds good, but please keep Hungary out of any of this.
Great work guys!
If Europe wants to be a proper country and stay relevant in the future, we may need to stop being countries and just agregrate into a single 'EU' country.
some 30 differents languages, and culture with thousand of year of nationalist history with war between each other, it not simple or popular for the people of thoses country to abandon their rich history to merge into a brand new, artificially made up country
We need to leave the EU and focus on trade and individual treaty's instead of politics and bureaucracy.
@@energeticzombieYou want to leave the EU to get rid of bureaucracy… By massively increasing the amount of bureaucracy? All those individual agreements would be far more bureaucratic.
@@dandavidson4717 no it wouldnt.
Yes, we do! Long live Europe! 🇪🇺
European countries sovereign? 😂 give me a break!
Exactly. The EU is way more USSR than it is USA.
Thanks!
You bet!
About 30 years overdue but I'll take it. If Europe really believes Ukraine is essential for the EU's survival then they need to take some of their $19 trillion combined GDP and some of their 450 million strong population and commit that towards their European defense. They outnumber Russian 3 to 1 and can outspend them almost 10 to 1. There is absolutely no justification for Europe to sit around asking Daddy America to write them blank checks in the year 2024.
Im European and I don't think Ukraine is essential for the EUs survival.
Theres so much presumption and flawed conclusions when it comes to what Americans have in their heads about Europe.
lol. What is this about a blank check? I swear. You lot are clueless.
@@tedcrilly46 honestly, it's just the Americans that believe Ukraine is some ultimate defensive border that is preventing ww3.
Complete nonsense
tbh this war as every other war the us trigerred/started is simply a way for some US industry to make money, either buy selling weapon, or by giving loans for country at war to buy US weapon or against some infrastructure/rebuilding