I know you've mentioned this is stuff you've incorporated into your own form but the way you breakdown and illustrate your examples are top notch. I think if you did an entire series, it would really benefit the game of everyone watching. Thanks Tyler.
I was stuck around 47 mph on tech disc. When I started thinking about bringing in the off arm and trying to keep it there I got up to 55 mph. I think it makes a big difference.
Hey good job! You know me I’ve seen your posts, respect for the consistency and glad to see the stats going up, I don’t disc golf but always fun to see your videos when they do pop up.
I think a key part is getting the left (/off-arm) shoulder fully extended forward while keeping the arm itself down and out of the way. This technique is a lot more about the shoulder than the arm itself. Doing this (pushing the shoulder out) fully stretches your back muscles which transfers a huge amount of energy from your left shoulder (pushing forward) to your right shoulder (which is pulled back, adding speed to the pull). There are a couple points here to dig deeper into as well. Most average players will do this correctly throughout the throw, which adds some power naturally. The pros however aren't just trying to keep the back muscles fully tight throughou the throw though, they are 'bouncing' the stretch using it as an elastic/rubber band effect instead of a "rope pulling" effect. This can double or triple the amount of force transferred to the lead arm through the upper back but only for a very tiny window of time, and if it isn't done at exactly the right time, you end up wasting it. I can't say I've got it down personally but I definitely understand it and I can feel it working (and absolutely see it in the flight) when I execute the timing perfectly. Just getting this right can be the dif between 400 and 450, or 450 and 490. I think you're at a similar point as me - you're kinda halfway doing it already but instinctively instead of intentionally. Try focusing on getting the shoulder fully stretched forward like a few milliseconds before your lead shoulder rips back (while keeping the off forearm down and out of the way).
I actually disagree with this. This sounds like slingshot disc golf. All the old coaches of disc golf think he's wrong. And my personal experience leads me to think so too. I started throwing back hand around the time he started making videos. I was pretty bought in and did the exaggerated off arm. I did it for years. And eventually I switched to keeping my off arm more at my side. But even then, my off shoulder would turn in like when I did the whole arm Paul Macbeth slingshot disc golf thing. And it was giving me all the same problem. Only when I stopped turning that shoulder in and leaving it back did I see a lot of power gains and they came more consistent. I've felt the tension and lag and the force that moves you to rotate from the double move and your shoulder turning in. But I don't think it's a force that goes into the disc. By turning that shoulder in you start to initiate the throw from the back shoulder instead of the front. It causes you to over rotate and rotate early. That early rotation gets your body in front of the disc and puts you in a rounded position mid throw. I'm open to different perspectives. But my personal journey has led me to believe what you said was actually what was holding me back.
Can't say for sure, but it's also plausible that it was just a timing issue. I kinda sorta addressed that as a major potential issue in my comment, at least theoretically, but I'm definitely not here to claim it's known science. Made sense to me and has definitely helped me though, but I'm also hard stuck at 450 so I can't preach to anybody.
@@michaelclarke1716i read both yalls comments, and i appreciate your taking the time. Im not sure if im picturing it corectly, but i think i get what Michael means, and that definitely feels closer to what im working on. My form is still not good enough for a full runup, im kind of a gentle walk up into a 350 ft range
@@tonykaze 450 is still further than 99% of amateurs so its nothing to sneeze at. I also am not claiming to be right. I certainly believe what i said is correct based on my own experiences and from what many coaches / players i trust have preached to a degree. Its something that has worked for me, feels more relaxed, but does feel snappier at the hit. Intententionally engaging the off arm made me feel more tensions and fastest in the beggining/ middle of my pull thru. As long as your able to get into the power pocket and get elbow drive then i cant really say its a problem.
Hello from Scotland, Tyler. Another good example of keeping the off-arm tight to the body is Jakub Semerad. He has very little off-arm movement & sometimes even has his off-hand positioned on his thigh.
I leave old stuff out when I learn new tips. I forgot about what my off-arm is doing. So I'm gonna check my form again and see if I need to incorporate this one. Good stuff
Great video and teaching, nice job. On backhand, I always grab the disc with my off hand (left hand) and I'm sure this is poor form. Hah. Watching this makes me want to work on keeping that arm down (I've tried before, just feels odd). Have a great weekend!
good video as always. I've been dealing with the off arm issue for awhile and still am but starting to have better ques. I also think the off arm allows our shoulders(head) to slow down and have our throwing arm speed up.
Also, keeping the head not moving until the back arm comes through helps alot(check goose). Thanks again for the form videos and your content. been watching forever
Bro, you are a great teacher, but what good is a lesson without the results of the test. Just really wanted to see your disc's where they ended up. Your form on the 1st two shots looked 'old school Golden' to me, but I'm digging what you say, especially your attention to detail in the concept, but u left me hanging on the video proof that the 1st two shots lagged behind the last group of shots. Keep it up man, will def follow your stuff. Kudos
Yeah I went from an average of 65-67mph to around 68-69mph from making this very small change. While I am not sure I am doing it "correctly", it feels much much stronger and doesn't put a lot of strain on my body. I think it allows me to rotate without having the shoulders feel collapsed and my body fighting to keep them from collapsing. Ezra Robinson, I've seen throw in person. He parked a 580ft island hole slightly uphill pretty effortless-looking and maybe it does? But I think the arm thing matters more if it's preventing you from reaching a proper pocket (which I struggle to do) and also if it's preventing you from hitting your timing. I don't have a power pocket 95% of the time (I end up getting halfway to a pocket and my arm just opens at a 90 deg angle and throw, relying on a long wingspan and body torque from momentum) and anytime I do hit one, my speed is about 5-6mph higher on average. I think this change will help build more accuracy (and consistency) as I believe my 60-70% power shots using this method are somehow hitting the lines I throw them on more often that the form I spent the last 6 months on... kind of frustrating lol. But I think you're 100% on the money about the early rotation. It feels easier to time the throw and engage the hips with this method and appreciate the video. I overlooked the off arm watching OverThrow DG.
Nice video. One thing that helped me for timing was to try to put rythym into it as if I was doing my run up and throw to a metronome. Really made a big difference in my throws. I'm going to try to implement the off arm a bit better next time I go out.
The way I've been working on this is that it's more about the shoulder than the arm. So, using my shoulder I'm pushing my weight down and in towards the brace and the arm comes along for the ride close to my body. And I try to connect what my shoulder is doing with my trail leg bringing it down and in also. Gannon very briefly talks about this in a vid on his channel. It's titled something like "add 75ft of distance". But, yeah, I think the off-side is more important than a lot of people think. Great video!
Thanks for sharing! I agree, off arm is important. Funny how I’ve been working on this too! For me, I noticed it promotes staying consistent in my rotation, hips and bracing. During tournaments it’s been helping with not thinking about my form and focusing on my line.
@@ThisIsVao Yeah something I didn’t mention in the video, is when I’m position my off arm this way, I tend to be wayyyy more consistent at hitting my lines. Like night and day. I think it helps a lot with timing.
Hey this is very unique and I like your work. I’ve been trying to work on this and when I watch my videos my off arm is bent and doesn’t make it to my side. Paul really clenches his first on the off arm. Yours seems very open and relaxed. Have you explored the difference? Great video thank you!!!
I remember Drew touched on this pretty well with Bodanza's form. I don't remember where I heard of it from but this was also something I heard right when I got into disc golf. I had a torn labrum at the time so I just ignored the arm swing and stuck my arm at my hip the entire throw and have never changed it. I might try to incorporate a swing for more power as I'd like to hit a new milestone.
So from all my research, that back arm staying behind you or anchoring down creates more whip reaction since you are stretching the back shoulder the opposite way your front arm is trying to whip. Its like you are holding back a rubber band. The more you hold back, the stronger the rubber band comes forward. People rotating back arm with their front are more just muscling the disc which most can still get far if they have proper lower body mechanics. Gannon does lower and upper really well from all his research.
I don’t think your off arm timing is off I think your plant foot timing is off. The purpose of the tuck on the arm is to delay the lag so you’re getting explosion from your back and chest flexing. It looks good just my opinion, go watch drew Gibson or Macbeth on where their feet arm in relationship to off arm. They use the off arm, just looks like you’re making the off arm look pretty instead of using it in your throw. Gannon buhr also uses his off arm as part of his push off leg to engage with his hip, not tucking in his arm. All three of these guys mentioned have their arm super tight to their body on the rotation, on your updated form you look a little chicken winged out. Just my opinion..
Bend more at the waist. A lot of UA-cam coaches teach well, but throw standing upright. Watch Eagle. It’s more athletic to bend at the waist and the off arm won’t be in the way.
I did that, but noticed that other pros don't do that as much. I started standing more upright and focussing on a relaxed shoulder and I gained distance instantly. Eagle is an extreme example of how far to bend.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I know you've mentioned this is stuff you've incorporated into your own form but the way you breakdown and illustrate your examples are top notch. I think if you did an entire series, it would really benefit the game of everyone watching. Thanks Tyler.
I was stuck around 47 mph on tech disc. When I started thinking about bringing in the off arm and trying to keep it there I got up to 55 mph. I think it makes a big difference.
Hey good job! You know me I’ve seen your posts, respect for the consistency and glad to see the stats going up, I don’t disc golf but always fun to see your videos when they do pop up.
I think a key part is getting the left (/off-arm) shoulder fully extended forward while keeping the arm itself down and out of the way. This technique is a lot more about the shoulder than the arm itself. Doing this (pushing the shoulder out) fully stretches your back muscles which transfers a huge amount of energy from your left shoulder (pushing forward) to your right shoulder (which is pulled back, adding speed to the pull).
There are a couple points here to dig deeper into as well. Most average players will do this correctly throughout the throw, which adds some power naturally. The pros however aren't just trying to keep the back muscles fully tight throughou the throw though, they are 'bouncing' the stretch using it as an elastic/rubber band effect instead of a "rope pulling" effect. This can double or triple the amount of force transferred to the lead arm through the upper back but only for a very tiny window of time, and if it isn't done at exactly the right time, you end up wasting it.
I can't say I've got it down personally but I definitely understand it and I can feel it working (and absolutely see it in the flight) when I execute the timing perfectly. Just getting this right can be the dif between 400 and 450, or 450 and 490.
I think you're at a similar point as me - you're kinda halfway doing it already but instinctively instead of intentionally. Try focusing on getting the shoulder fully stretched forward like a few milliseconds before your lead shoulder rips back (while keeping the off forearm down and out of the way).
I actually disagree with this. This sounds like slingshot disc golf. All the old coaches of disc golf think he's wrong. And my personal experience leads me to think so too.
I started throwing back hand around the time he started making videos. I was pretty bought in and did the exaggerated off arm. I did it for years. And eventually I switched to keeping my off arm more at my side. But even then, my off shoulder would turn in like when I did the whole arm Paul Macbeth slingshot disc golf thing. And it was giving me all the same problem. Only when I stopped turning that shoulder in and leaving it back did I see a lot of power gains and they came more consistent.
I've felt the tension and lag and the force that moves you to rotate from the double move and your shoulder turning in. But I don't think it's a force that goes into the disc.
By turning that shoulder in you start to initiate the throw from the back shoulder instead of the front. It causes you to over rotate and rotate early. That early rotation gets your body in front of the disc and puts you in a rounded position mid throw.
I'm open to different perspectives. But my personal journey has led me to believe what you said was actually what was holding me back.
Can't say for sure, but it's also plausible that it was just a timing issue. I kinda sorta addressed that as a major potential issue in my comment, at least theoretically, but I'm definitely not here to claim it's known science. Made sense to me and has definitely helped me though, but I'm also hard stuck at 450 so I can't preach to anybody.
@@michaelclarke1716i read both yalls comments, and i appreciate your taking the time. Im not sure if im picturing it corectly, but i think i get what Michael means, and that definitely feels closer to what im working on. My form is still not good enough for a full runup, im kind of a gentle walk up into a 350 ft range
@@tonykaze 450 is still further than 99% of amateurs so its nothing to sneeze at.
I also am not claiming to be right. I certainly believe what i said is correct based on my own experiences and from what many coaches / players i trust have preached to a degree. Its something that has worked for me, feels more relaxed, but does feel snappier at the hit.
Intententionally engaging the off arm made me feel more tensions and fastest in the beggining/ middle of my pull thru.
As long as your able to get into the power pocket and get elbow drive then i cant really say its a problem.
Hello from Scotland, Tyler. Another good example of keeping the off-arm tight to the body is Jakub Semerad. He has very little off-arm movement & sometimes even has his off-hand positioned on his thigh.
I leave old stuff out when I learn new tips. I forgot about what my off-arm is doing. So I'm gonna check my form again and see if I need to incorporate this one. Good stuff
Thank you for the update boss man
Great video and teaching, nice job.
On backhand, I always grab the disc with my off hand (left hand) and I'm sure this is poor form. Hah. Watching this makes me want to work on keeping that arm down (I've tried before, just feels odd).
Have a great weekend!
Dude.
Your insights are amazing.
Thanks.
I just love your voice. It’s so soothing to listen to you.
good video as always. I've been dealing with the off arm issue for awhile and still am but starting to have better ques. I also think the off arm allows our shoulders(head) to slow down and have our throwing arm speed up.
Also, keeping the head not moving until the back arm comes through helps alot(check goose). Thanks again for the form videos and your content. been watching forever
great video, now I have to wait until the weekend to incorporate…just subscribed! cant wait for your overall form video
@@Baloghvideo already out 😄
Bro, you are a great teacher, but what good is a lesson without the results of the test. Just really wanted to see your disc's where they ended up. Your form on the 1st two shots looked 'old school Golden' to me, but I'm digging what you say, especially your attention to detail in the concept, but u left me hanging on the video proof that the 1st two shots lagged behind the last group of shots. Keep it up man, will def follow your stuff. Kudos
Yeah I went from an average of 65-67mph to around 68-69mph from making this very small change. While I am not sure I am doing it "correctly", it feels much much stronger and doesn't put a lot of strain on my body.
I think it allows me to rotate without having the shoulders feel collapsed and my body fighting to keep them from collapsing.
Ezra Robinson, I've seen throw in person. He parked a 580ft island hole slightly uphill pretty effortless-looking and maybe it does? But I think the arm thing matters more if it's preventing you from reaching a proper pocket (which I struggle to do) and also if it's preventing you from hitting your timing. I don't have a power pocket 95% of the time (I end up getting halfway to a pocket and my arm just opens at a 90 deg angle and throw, relying on a long wingspan and body torque from momentum) and anytime I do hit one, my speed is about 5-6mph higher on average. I think this change will help build more accuracy (and consistency) as I believe my 60-70% power shots using this method are somehow hitting the lines I throw them on more often that the form I spent the last 6 months on... kind of frustrating lol. But I think you're 100% on the money about the early rotation.
It feels easier to time the throw and engage the hips with this method and appreciate the video. I overlooked the off arm watching OverThrow DG.
Nice video. One thing that helped me for timing was to try to put rythym into it as if I was doing my run up and throw to a metronome. Really made a big difference in my throws. I'm going to try to implement the off arm a bit better next time I go out.
The way I've been working on this is that it's more about the shoulder than the arm. So, using my shoulder I'm pushing my weight down and in towards the brace and the arm comes along for the ride close to my body. And I try to connect what my shoulder is doing with my trail leg bringing it down and in also. Gannon very briefly talks about this in a vid on his channel. It's titled something like "add 75ft of distance". But, yeah, I think the off-side is more important than a lot of people think. Great video!
Well said!
Thanks for sharing! I agree, off arm is important. Funny how I’ve been working on this too! For me, I noticed it promotes staying consistent in my rotation, hips and bracing. During tournaments it’s been helping with not thinking about my form and focusing on my line.
@@ThisIsVao Yeah something I didn’t mention in the video, is when I’m position my off arm this way, I tend to be wayyyy more consistent at hitting my lines. Like night and day. I think it helps a lot with timing.
Hey this is very unique and I like your work. I’ve been trying to work on this and when I watch my videos my off arm is bent and doesn’t make it to my side. Paul really clenches his first on the off arm. Yours seems very open and relaxed. Have you explored the difference? Great video thank you!!!
@@Cad1900 it’s totally a feel thing, whatever works for you.
@@TylerTiede ok great thank you!!
I remember Drew touched on this pretty well with Bodanza's form. I don't remember where I heard of it from but this was also something I heard right when I got into disc golf. I had a torn labrum at the time so I just ignored the arm swing and stuck my arm at my hip the entire throw and have never changed it. I might try to incorporate a swing for more power as I'd like to hit a new milestone.
@@triplespace007 gavin rathbun? is that you?
@@TylerTiede lol
Great video...well explained. A valuable reminder to get extra distance.
So from all my research, that back arm staying behind you or anchoring down creates more whip reaction since you are stretching the back shoulder the opposite way your front arm is trying to whip. Its like you are holding back a rubber band. The more you hold back, the stronger the rubber band comes forward. People rotating back arm with their front are more just muscling the disc which most can still get far if they have proper lower body mechanics. Gannon does lower and upper really well from all his research.
Yep, I needed this video. Thanks man 👍🏻
I give my left shoulder a nice little tap a lot. Happens mostly when I get tired though
For training, try holding a disc in your off-arms armpit. That way you train on throwing with the off arm in the right position
Thank you for sharing the tip.
Though, the video felt too long to keep watching. I think it could be condensed into 3-5 min.
I don’t think your off arm timing is off I think your plant foot timing is off. The purpose of the tuck on the arm is to delay the lag so you’re getting explosion from your back and chest flexing. It looks good just my opinion, go watch drew Gibson or Macbeth on where their feet arm in relationship to off arm. They use the off arm, just looks like you’re making the off arm look pretty instead of using it in your throw. Gannon buhr also uses his off arm as part of his push off leg to engage with his hip, not tucking in his arm. All three of these guys mentioned have their arm super tight to their body on the rotation, on your updated form you look a little chicken winged out. Just my opinion..
I noticed my left arm goes up like I’m about to hug someone I wish I could show a picture very strange
Bend more at the waist. A lot of UA-cam coaches teach well, but throw standing upright. Watch Eagle. It’s more athletic to bend at the waist and the off arm won’t be in the way.
I did that, but noticed that other pros don't do that as much. I started standing more upright and focussing on a relaxed shoulder and I gained distance instantly. Eagle is an extreme example of how far to bend.
@@Donderopmetjegebruikersnaam none of them are standing up straight. Bending gets your body out of the way of the disc.
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