The Next Space Station
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
- The International Space Station has been operating for almost two decades, but a successor for the ISS hasn't been chosen yet. Today we will look at some of the options for our future gateway to the stars.
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Credits:
The Next Space Station
Science & Futurism with Isaac Arthur
Episode 303, August 12, 2021
Written, Produced & Narrated by Isaac Arthur
Editors:
A.T. Long
Jason Burbank
Cover Art:
Jakub Grygier www.artstation...
Graphics:
Bryan Versteeg www.spacehabs.com
Gateway Foundation gatewayspacepo...
Ian Long LITE: / @anthrofuturism
Jeremy Jozwik www.artstation...
Sergio Botero www.artstation...
Udo Schroeter
Music Courtesy of Epidemic Sound epidemicsound.c...
There's a typo on the operation period for Mir, it was 1986 to 2001, episode has it as 1968 to 2001.
Laughing at your own jokes is really jarring. You never used to do that. I find myself going back to older videos because your insecurity made you more attentive to your speech. I love you, Isaac. You've made such a difference in my life. Please....
Hello, love the content! It would be cool if you can say crewed instead of manned since that is the current term used by NASA and others. Thank you.
@@stuartreed37 I was wondering what the term was. I know it's a vastly different world of sexes.
Don't worry it's a mere 18 yr error.
@@stuartreed37 Sorry I don't understand why it matters? I hear Doctor, teacher my default is a woman, because those women's jobs when was a kid. I don't think I lived anywhere special.
BTW, saying Humanned sounds weird, 'manned works.
Ah yes! Nothing like an episode on improving our space infrastructure!
The US should be more concerned with their ground infrastructure…
inspirational and seems much closer to reality.
@@anticom6099 lol
I figure if nothing else we're definitely going to need an orbital construction platform, factory, and refuelling station. Maybe it will have some small labs or habitat sections on it, maybe those could be their own stations. But some kind of factory station to build bigger module parts, ships, and station components makes a lot of sense to me. Gotta have somewhere to start building out all the other stations we're going to want and need, right?
Like a ship yard with supporting infrastructure like a hab for the crew(and hydroponic for O2 and food) a storage bag for the materials,
Dock yard, a command area, and a communications array.
All of what I mentioned can be constructed in parts. And can have a massive pay off. Like once the main ship yard was finished we can reinforce the rest of the starvation and make more permanent and sturdier components
@@spacetechempire510 Start small and develop bigger.
You need materials to build stuff, so the best space station would be to bring an asteroid into orbit around Earth.
@@evannibbe9375 You could probably do that remotely. Have an automated craft go fetch an asteroid and bring it back, or just send semi-refined goods to the factory rather than bring the whole thing.
Space industry like that would be a ton easier on the moon than in orbit. It does mean the extra fuel to get there but it solves some technical issues as well.
It's been amazing watching the gradual shift in optimism in Isaac's commentary over the last few years. It wasn't long ago that talking about anything ambitious to do with space made you a crank. That forced a lot serious people to keep their peace. We're not their yet, but some parts of sci-fi, at least, are slowly, bit by bit, edging towards being just plain old awesome sci.
Considering that we can now 3D print a rocket. And can launch rocket at shuch low cost now. It has become obvious that it’s essentially about 15 years at most away.
I've had a reputation as a space-optimist and techno-optimist since the early episodes, so I don't know that I've shifted much, though I've never thought of myself as an optimist in any respect :) By default I'm usually the Devil's Advocate
@@spacetechempire510 Depends greatly on the landscape here on earth. Politics and friction could impede our advancement as other issues take priority.
@@danielmartin7838 Issues could impede advancement yes, but over large timespans even large distractions and delays are only temporary.
Happy Arthursday! Sometimes I forget what day of the week it is, until Isaac uploads...
Careful sir! You risk disrespecting the actual "Arthursday" which is a long running celebration of Athur Guiness and his eponymous brew! 😀
@@hooligan9794 o, that's cool. I imagine it's not an official holiday, tho the case could be made. Gosh I miss Guinness.
I've got a nephew named Arthur, I've missed out on that exquisite nomenclature for over 30 years. The face palm probably registered on the Richter.
@@rodClark717 I'd kill for a draught pint of black stuff right now! 😅
@@hooligan9794 yeah buddy! I stopped drinking it when I went veg a dozen years ago. Folks ask what I miss, it's marshmallows and Guinness. Damn, that actually sounds appetizing, lol.
Isaac Arthur's usual topics: "How to survive at the end of time trillions of years from now by building civilizations around black holes." This topic: "What are our options for replacing ISS fifteen years from now?" Honestly, it's a very refreshing topic. It's more in line with Astronomy Cast than SFIA. And I really welcome the change.
There are a few other videos about the near future, like jumpstarting the space economy etc.
@@wouterdevlieger1002 Like making possible mining in space.
I'd sign up for that.
Just to be able to work in space.
The near future has always been the more exciting subject for me
Not the change maybe/hopefully but I really like the addition!!
I looked up word for word “the next space station” yesterday so perfect timing
I was thinking about that and searching recently too
Funny story about the ISS. A new astronaut moves into the station. He's going to be there a while so he decides to get himself a drink and a snack. He makes himself some coffee but can't find any milk to put into it. He says to his comrade whose been there a while, "I made this coffee but I can't find any milk". To which his comrade replies, "In space, no one can. Here, use cream"
That was awful. Take your damn upvote. :)
*facepalm*
Definetly an Isaac Arthur upload is a highlight of the day :)
Ye
I randomly stumbled into SFIA about 3 years ago. I had my mind blown and I've been a fan ever since. I love how Isaac is able to discuss big and/or wild topics in a way that nearly anybody could follow. Plus, his voice is hella relaxing.
This inspired me to design my own. I'll make one. don't worry. mark my words
Good luck, hope you do
Well gladly wait
Gonna need a space Winnebago with a couple hillbillies to scrounge parts off those pesky secret DOD satellites.
Thanks a lot for the replies and special thanks to Isaac for understanding me
@@greatcondor8678 I didn't get you, sir
Another great episode, I love discussing the near future, a future I might live to see
same
Hi Isaac. Two episode ideas. First the slightly random one, 'Getting Salt and Pepper to your rotating habitat.' One of the key drawcards to living on a rotating habitat is a good reliable source of food. And not just any food, it has to be yummy! Hydroponic and aeroponic farms for veges and maybe printed steak and chicken is fine (though I'm curious where the feedstock for those printers comes from,) but I want salt and pepper with my meal! Salt is a mineral, and has to be carted up there and then recycled. I guess? There aren't salt deposits on the moon (or, for a habitat in orbit around say Mars, on Phobos or Deimos)? Are there? Or do we take up a big tanker of sodium and a big tanker of chloride, and make the salt on site? Or...? And many spices, like pepper for example, on grow only in specific parts of Earth. Would duplicating those growing conditions even be possible on a rotating habitat? What's involved in setting that up so it can be self-sustaining without needing continuous imports?
My second idea is, 'Living on heavy gravity worlds.' It occurs to me that if you wanted to get a really big planet so you could have a really big population (and yes, I'm aware of other techniques for making this possible, which you've discussed on your excellent show, but hear me out...) then the bigger the planet, the bigger the gravity. That might be uncomfortable. But perhaps there are ways around that? We could engineer ourselves to have four legs instead of two, and/or much bigger muscles and skeletons. But how about an analogue of that get-more-gravity-on-Mars-by-combining-regular-gravity-with-spin-gravity idea you mentioned in a couple of your episodes? You could have people living on the OUTside of a spinning cone (instead of the INside of a spinning cone-shaped well,) where centrifugal force lightens the perceived gravity. Right? I haven't fully worked it through in my head, but after the idea popped in there, I thought I had to say something :-)
Everyone wants to be on a zero gravity space station until they have to take a dump in zero gravity.
It's easy, you just
s i t o n t h e v a c u u m
Spaceman spaceman in your ship,
How are you going to take a sh*t?
Don't you know it floats in air?
Spaceman spaceman better beware.
Let's be honest the biggest single draw for space tourism is zero gee sex
@@mpetersen6 I imagine most people who think that would be in for a shock to find out just how much that rely on gravity for that activity.
@@ExtantFrodo2
But the experimentation would be so much fun. And think of he positions!
Great video, I noticed you didn't mention Axiom who are building modules for ISS and plan to use these eventually for their own station.
Have always loved the Von Braun Wheel design since I first saw it in locally published science book, must be the 1950s aesthetic. Wonder why nobody has thought of building one with today's technology.
Edit: okay, that design at 5:00 is just insane.
We have. A lot. It’s extremely difficult to build a giant rotating habitat, and nobody wants to commit to it yet.
@@hithere5553 I mean cant we put a ring module dissasembled and assemble it once its docked?
Look up the gateway foundation. They renamed their Von Braun station the Voyager station.
We are watching a rocket being built with an exterior design straight off the front covers of my childhood sci-fi mags and books from the 50s, so a wheel is possible.
Personally, I wonder if having a station specializing in satellite recycling and manufacture would be feasible. Instead of de-orbiting end of life satellites, I think rerouting them to be captured and repurposed or having their materials salvaged and reformed could be a real niche that would provide a very valuable service.
The first steps towards space manufacturing really is something that needs to be experimented with and I would love to see some of the next stations to be purposed towards this.
Each day of an astronaut on ISS costs 10 mln USD, so it won't be economical for a long time. And if you do the work remotely or autonomously with robots, then you don't need stations.
True. I think when Nolan said “station” he meant orbital workshop (man or unmanned).
@@tdd.academy2573 Obviously the more that can be automated or done remotely the better.
As for a 'station', whether it is a dedicated facility or additional function added onto a manned facility, recycling, processing and manufacturing with materials in space is definitely a concept that needs to be further explored.
1) Refueling in the orbit happens already. We have modules made of a rocket engine, control thrusters and fuel tank, which can attach to the rocket nozzle of satellite and extend their mission. This is relatively simple and economical. 2) Most of the workshop tasks would not be possible. Satellites are different, often work for a long time, over 10 years, electronics get older and repairs would be costly. There is no electronic manufacturing in the space right now, so everything would have to be shipped from the surface anyway. To recycle retired satellites we would have to have a space industry in the first place, just like on Earth. To build one you have to have an economic reason. 3) Also don't forget about orbits. Satellites are on very specific orbits, so any work would require a lot of orbital manoeuvres. So someone would have to spend lots of reaction mass, either satellite (cost of launch) or the station (it has to get it from somewhere or from Earth, but why not launch a new satellite then?). 4) It is going to happen at some point, maybe in 250 years, maybe a little quicker. Sooner or later we will expand deeper into the solar system and we will have industry there, probably multiple space stations in the solar system, hydrogen shipped from Jupiter, solar energy from Sun, minerals from the asteroid belt, maybe some asteroid early detection system further from Earth, etc.
Maybe in the future, if we get absurd amount of satellites, though I could see a future market for refurbishing space stations.
My first thought when Isaac brought up the benefits of a non-rotating space station for microgravity scientific research was that you could conduct such research in the center of a rotating station. Of course, if you wanted your experiments to be attached to something as opposed to just floating free there would be a problem. Having a non-rotating center section with spokes that rotated around it would probably be a nontrivial engineering challenge. It might be easier to have the whole station rotate while a center section used electric motors to rotate in the opposite direction to counteract the spin gravity. But if you were building a large enough station solving that nontrivial engineering challenge might be worth it. It would probably be easier to dock with a part of the station that wasn't rotating. But also if space tourism was going to be a part of the station mission it might be ideal to offer guests accommodations with gravity, but also have a section where they could "play" in microgravity. You could probably put up some green screens and charge movie productions to film in actual microgravity as opposed to the simulated we normally see in movies.
We know that long term exposure to microgravity is harmful to humans. But it seems to me there is a big difference between low gravity and for all intents and purposes no gravity. I think we should definitely test the effect of long term lunar gravity on a person before we send anyone to Mars. While an exercise regimen would certainly be needed to counteract muscle atrophy that might be all that is necessary to remain healthy. But if it turns out that 1/6 Earth gravity is not enough to remain healthy. It would be nice to have a station where we could experiment with 38% Earth gravity before sending people to Mars. But if Lunar gravity is enough to remain healthy, in the long term I could see the Moon turning into the new Florida with people wanting to retire to a low gravity community.
Bruh Just send volunteers right away and we learn by doing.
The first wave is a suicide mission either way anyway.
Just do it.
Nike
Might be trivial for a theoretical physicist but for an engineer they would tell you just the g forces from trying to stop the center would tear it apart.not counting even spinning in the opposite direction. Sorry for the bad grammar.ingrish is my only language lol
"But if Lunar gravity is enough to remain healthy, in the long term I could see the Moon turning into the new Florida with people wanting to retire to a low gravity community."
Well, the Bishop of Orlando does claim jurisdiction over the moon, so I guess it's already Florida.
@@lostinthefuture9300 Actually I was envisioning a cylinder in the center that rotated along with the entire structure with a smaller diameter cylinder inside that. The outer cylinder could be longer. I'm just spitballing numbers here, but say the outer cylinder was 20 meters long, the inner cylinder could be 5 meters. Now I am neither a physicist nor an engineer, but it seems to me it would be easier to get an inner cylinder like that to counter rotate than it would be to get the rest of a station to rotate around a (relatively) stationary center section.
if you're doing a very delicate experiment with lots of controls, the last thing you'd want in your facility is a nosey billionaire, or multi-millionaire or his family or entourage wanting to "help out." I'm all for the space-tourism hotel being a different module or station altogether.
Depends a lot on the experiment :) These would all be physical small and portable by nature which makes the extreme handling delicacy issue less of a concern and most experiments are deemed safe enough for undergrads to handle or help with. But yeah having someone poke your ultra-sensitive experiment and blow tons of time and money in the process is another reason science station and space hotel don't work well together.
@@isaacarthurSFIA We let people deep sea dive and jump out of planes with parachutes, all of which are life threatening. Humans are able to follow instructions. And being in space itself is life threatening already, so the people doing so would have to be willing to follow instructions. Not to say that exceptions won't happen, but the concept can be done.
Space tourism ships and city-sized motherships are our further steps to space projects and trades.
The next stations will resemble Gateway with extended docking ability. Starship or other like will serve as special purpose modules. But we need to begin to think of these as merely aggregation points. The cities or campuses will grow around them The initial export hubs will transition into import hubs as the raw material flows reverse. Shuttle buses and delivery trucks will come into play and manufacturing hubs will be positioned for power and transit costs. We forget that Starship is the equivalent of the Model T. The real first mass produced easily modified vehicle.
We should see systems like 2000 Space Odyssey and Geostorm a larger space station
@@patricofritz4094 Those would grow at the aggregation points. The economics of the gravity well almost insures that as support staff even for robotic material handling and or manufacturing will require longer term deployments.
@@judedornisch4946 yeah true
idk feel like theres still a couple point between that and now, maybe a station more focused around manufacturing so you could better make gateway like stations.
@@harmonyspace5228 Indeed but I expect that the basic Power and propulsion unit and servicing module will be the basis of the forming Stations. Initially it will be much safer and cheaper to start with Starship as a Prototyping and Habitation extension. Once in space construction is worked on then it makes sense to do those more permanent modules that you add on to the base, Starship and others then begin to shit to servicing and trucking.
Why does Isaac not have three or four million subscribers by now I mean it don't seem right Isaac is so diligent he even posted on his honeymoon for god's sake any way this is by far my favorite channel on UA-cam even if not many people agree with me.
SFIA is the channel other UA-cam creators watch to do research for shallower versions with broader appeal. I like other science channels but if I see one covering a topic Isaac has covered, I usually skip it.
@@Firebirdwinters I think your on to something yeah I would bet that to be the truth.
Every new space station should be started as a part of an existing one. This way they could be activated and commissioned with minimal danger for the crew and even some repairs could be done before the station would actually need to be able to support life.
Decoupling and changing to a different orbit afterwards should not be a huge problem.
The construction of the ISS does not seem amenable to radical attitude or altitude adjustments. There's no drag in space but you still have to deal with inertia. Every part that's not along the axis has to deal with all the compression and tension imposed by acceleration.
@@ExtantFrodo2 I am not talking about changing the orbit of the ISS or a similar sized station.
I am talking about the core of a new station with life support and a habitate. Additional modules can be commiciened once the new station is in the desired orbit.
In addition, accelerations can be very small. The change from the orbit of the ISS to the final orbit could take weeks. Most of the impulse could be generated using an ion thruster.
@@karstenschuhmann8334 I may be wrong but is it not more sensible for each module to have all necessary life support infrastructure in case of emergency?
@@ExtantFrodo2 Sure, I guess they have, they may also have a main system and auxiliary systems, but this is not the issue.
The life support in a capsule bringing astronauts from earth is not comparable to a space habitate. So when the first crews manns the station they need to be rely on this first life support of the station. If things go wrong they have no option to repair anything but need to return to Earth.
An established space station, in contrast, offers the opportunity to commission repair and test run the new station over several months.
Axiom Space is doing exactly that and is currently building the worlds first commercial space station. In 2024 we will launch our first module and attach it to the ISS. 4 main modules in total will form the free flyer and will then be detached in 2028.
I thought that was a Starfury Thunderbolt heading past the station at the start. :)
Actually, I'm shocked no one has considered the idea of building an automated space station for mars. It would be great for doing Mars based research and coordinating with any rovers or probes on the planet or even acting as an emergency refuge for astronauts if something goes wrong. If they ever decide to build another space station it might be a good idea to think about repurposing the current station into a Mars or lunar space station. Also, when you consider the time lag in communication between earth and Mars you could even make the case that it's just simply necessary for the basic functionality of some missions.
If we made it big enough it could work as the planets orbital mission command that can be mostly self sufficient. And can also act as a dock for orbit based star ships.
I totally agree. As anticlimactic as it would be for crew who flew to Mars to be backup on a livable orbital station, it's necessary. As much as I'd love to see SpaceX and NASA hit their target dates for manned missions to Mars, we're skipping steps.
@@derekroark3858 ya. At least a small station in low orbit with enough supplies to last a launch orbit is needed. So about 2 and a half years worth of supply’s.
The bearest minimums needed
But how would that justify money to NASA and contractors for the human space program? (I.e. the purpose of the ISS and shuttle once NASA couldn't get enough money to go beyond Earth orbit but could get enough to slowly build up stuff in LEO.)
petition to call one of the science labs in the next international station "researchy mcresearcherface"
I was supposed to play D&D today, it got cancelled, but this will do.
In all seriousness, I love these videos man! You've given me plenty of inspiration for my own stories, and given me anticipation for Mankind's future.
Incredible to see how far you've come during covid. I've been following your channel for years and I'm so happy for you dude.
Looks like you made a typo about Mir. It was operational from 1986 - 2001, not 1968 - 2001.
The next Space Station will probably just be a Starship with the tank header removed, coz that would be way bigger than the current ISS's pressurized volume, so bassically you lunch a Starship and remove the tank header, or cut a hole in it and put in a door, you would need another launch for equipment, but you already done, and no I don't think reusable rockets end the possibility, because like the Starship is supposed to weigh 120 tonnes + the 150 tonnes you can get into LEO that basically a whole other launch and the cost saving on completely useuable rockets currently seem to be 10% using the cost structure SpaceX has for reusable vs single use falcon 9s.
And one of the things SpaceX has done with Starship is making the construction of rockets really cheap comparatively, so you would save money by not reusing the rocket and just repurposing the hull, and if you listen to Elon when they create a better Sharship they don't really want to be flying the earlier versions, so you can just fly up an earlier version to get rid of it because it's out dated.
Nice of you to mention Shuttle wet workshop proposal and Skylab, but neither of them is around, aren't they? So it's not about only the idea and empty pressurized volume, it's about the cargo and scientifical instruments it contains.
@@TheArklyte I did say 150 tonnes + 120 for the vessel, so the 150 tonnes would be the equipment including solar panels etc and also probably another launch to bring up more equipment.
300 tonnes of equipment is a lot of equipment, but that would also include lining for the hull to stop small bits of space junk poking holes in the pressure vessel so 300 tonnes probably isn't far off, but plus side you can line the station in a pressurized environment.
Also difference with the shuttle is that the default shuttle didn't actually bring the main tank into orbit, so you would have to spend extra deltaV to get it into orbit.
Where as a Starship-by which I mean not including the Super Heavy-is intended to go into orbit with it's tank and bring it back to Earth, so this is no extra work involved in getting it into space.
@@TheArklyte Furthermore the 120 tonnes for the Starship it's self I believe is an aspirational number, currently they are at around 200 tonnes... that would impact cargo weight, although certainly there are weight savings to be made, I just don't know if they will manage to get it all the way down to 120 tonnes.
@Smee Self Do you believe Starship wont be finshed, because if that is the case NASA seems to strongly disagree with you considering they have a contract with SpaceX for 2.99 billion that relies completely on Starship being a thing.
And the political pressure was definitely against SpaceX on that one, so they choose SpaceX on how highly they rate Starship.
Starship and SpaceX in general is the elphant in the room it seems.
we need to build a narrow cylinder space station that is a structural member, then add modules at either end and once there are three perpendicular moduals at either end, start spining it from end to end to generate momentum for artificial gravity, and to go bigger you can turn those end modules into spokes of a much bigger wheel type station
A video on Space Exploration on my birthday? Awesome!
Happy birthday 🎂🍰🍻
I really do love the optimistic tone this channel has for our future. It is definitely a refreshing change from everything else that is going on in the world.
Crew: Admiral, the laser has wiped out Florida.
Admiral: .....At last..... we're free......
Last free man standing will be Florida Man.
Florida man: Im still here!
we used the laser to cut Florida clean from the country like bugs bunny with a comically large saw
I was going to build the next space station--but then things got really crazy at work.
I think we need space caravans. Basically mini pods you can stop off in, rather than 1 big station. You could fill a few pods with water, have a pod at earth, one at the moon, one at mars etc etc. You can launch a craft without water on it, have it dock to a water caravan and fill up (can use the water as shielding), you could then drop the water back off again before landing. These water holding caravans can be super simple and light without the water. Can fil them up bit by bit every launch. any excess water you take town to a base on a planet/moon.
I'm sure the most likely base design for the next ISS.
will be von Brauns wheel.
Look up Spiderhab & look up Tensegrity space station.
@@unintentionallydramatic I have.
Starship will definitely change the paradigm for station building - the launch cost during the shuttle days ranged from a low estimate of 27000 kilograms to a high estimate of 10000$/kilogram plus.
Starship will offer from low estimates of around 10-20$/kilogram to high estimates of 200-300$/kilogram access to space within this decade.
And we can cut it even more if we constructed our star ships in space via orbital ship yards.
And focus on launching from earth ether probs or reusable low orbit ships.
Assuming everything works out with Starship the way Elon hopes it will. I am optimistic, but don't count your chickens before they hatch.
Do you ever plan on going back to those nice long 40 minute episodes or are we stuck with these shorter vids because of the algorithm?
After that ipcc report, I’m gonna need your expedited plan for a fleet of O’Neil cylinders ASAP. 😭😭🤣🤣
No doubt hahaha
"By 2013, the Arctic Ocean will be completely and perpetually ice free."
Al Gore said that in 2006.
So much for that 'scientific fact'. Reminds me of the guy who wrote a book predicting the return of Christ in 1988. Oops.
@@khaccanhle1930 🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️
I like how optimistic the music is this episode.
The big use of space stations I would see is reducing space junk. In the same way that "cell towers" are often a transceiver hung off of another antenna or just on the side of some high rise, I would think a space station that hosted a large number of communication, astronomy, science, surveillance, etc. pods, would allow smaller, less complicated pods than a full satellite. In fact, a company on earth could specify the pod and the whole thing could be built, tested and then installed in space. These would only have to be semi-manned or even robot operated, but there would only be one set of power supply, cooling and station keeping needed for many uses. So instead of 20 satellites that will become space junk, there is only one that has a well known position and has repairable station keeping. This is the great advantage of general purpose, multi use stations. Even in low earth orbit, forcing similar interests to share platforms to reduce space junk as well as astronomical interference may be a reasonable way forward. I would call these "space stations" as well because they are used by more than one entity as a "destination". A manned single use lab or module is maybe more of a satellite than a station... or maybe a better definition of space station is needed.
This is definitely a path for an economically feasible station, one we might very well see dozens of in the coming years as more and more satellites are launched, someone will probably figure out that it will be cheaper and more efficient to link them all together. Like a shopping mall for satellites.
Wow this really is one where this single episode could be a whole series - more than a single series.
Those of us like me who watch these kinds of things have waited for decades for the next evolutionary step in rockets. In Space X's Starship it looks like its finally coming.. This shows more than anything else how central money and determination are to the progress of technology. (and humanity)
5:20 Around a thousand experiments which include 23 experiments from 17 nations is already remarkably open, even if not on the level of the ISS. These are early days though.
I feel like multiple stations in a small orbital community would be interesting. Especially in the event of an emergency. Instead of hoping for help from Earth, or relying on the things you already have. You can still do all of that, but now you have a more reliable solution of having assistance from "nearby" stations.
When I was working on designing the electronics for one of the bidding engines for NASA's new moon lander (the engine I worked on didn't win the bid), we were told by NASA that the full lander configuration (human module, descent module, maneuvering module) would be docking with the Gateway lunar orbital station on its way to or from the Lunar surface. That was about a year ago and I have yet to hear anything saying the lunar Gateway won't be the next station.
I was hoping for more discussion of what sort of space station architectures could be launched with Starship and similar sized rockets.
not a significat diference yust biger moduls
@@anuvisraa5786 That alone is a huge difference. If each module is comparable to the total size of the ISS - or is bigger if its inflatable - then we can produce some pretty massive stations this decade.
Say one module as a hub, seven more inflatable modules coming off it in each direction, and two launches for radiators and solar panels, etc. Thats ten launches to produce a space station that is more than 8x as big as the ISS.
The answer to that is any. It's just a matter of how much you're willing to spend.
My take is that at that point you could either just send up begger modules, or send up a station that than put together other space stations, so you don't even need to cram everything into a fairing anymore, the orbiting factory can put the shell together and just send up the contents in modules
The starship, or something like it, will be a gamechanger. Being able to lift 200,000 pounds into orbit will greatly increase our potential. After Starship is operational, building space stations in Earth and Lunar orbit will be a lot cheaper. Then I could see a smaller shuttle with much less powerful engines to ferry people and supplies between stations. Maybe a small cargo bay and room for 4-6 people. If it could land and take off from the moons surface that would be a big help, but not a total necessity. I think a Lunar base will be needed at some point. It seems like it would be much cheaper to build on the moon. Especially if aluminum can be mined there. Once again, great video. Thanks.
Really interested in how your ideal first food production station would look. I imagine it layered with the outermost compartments growing algae, in to fish etc.
Idea for a topic - where do we get the metal for orbital construction in the next 15 years? Mass Driver, harvesting space debris, asteroid harvesting?
The reason to have labs or other things in the same station is because there can be other supporting facilities such as leisure, recreation facilities, food services, maybe a bar, and just having other people around. You'd just have lab facilities in other sections and control access.
Feasible space station economics:
1. Generalized research facility
2. Space tourism, intermediate port
3. Micro-G/Clean parts manufacturing
4. Ecological Biome engineering
5. In situ space resource refining
6. Modular assembly for new stations
7. Refueling/Repair dock
8. Crew & Personnel barracks
If you build this with about 42 bubbles, 30 meters in diameter, you can have a wheel large enough to make artificial gravity at 9.8 m/sec² at 2 revs/sec. Of course, then your micro-G work would have to be tethered to the hub.
It wouldn't take more than 50 or launches of Space-X's new starship to build this from scratch, using the biggest Bigelow inflatable modules. And they would be habitable even before being strung together in a wheel. Surely, this set-up could eventually turn a profit.
It's so easy to get caught up in futuristic technology that we're a hundred or a thousand years away from. It's exciting to think about the things we can make with the technology we have now.
Well it looks like we're gonna be building a Armistice station sometime in the future 👍🤣🎈
Hanging tether allows station with some "gravity" and easier LEO access. The tether would have to be long but if the goal was, say lunar level gee, then it would be well inside current material limits although it would have a mass over a million kg.
How about you connect one tether end to one Starship and the other tether end to another Starship, and ta da, new space station that can slightly spin to have a small amount of gravity.
@@evannibbe9375 Sure that would work at least in principle, but hanging tether stations have some interesting potential advantages. One is that they can make orbit easier to access. When a payload comes up from the surface and is attached to the lower end of the tether, the tethers altitude decreases. This is because the payload is moving at the slower orbital velocity of the higher up center of mass of the tether and not the faster velocity for the lower end's altitude. Depending upon its total mass and the mass of the payload,, this may be only a few thousand meters
The payload would include some argon for propellant for an electric propulsion system on the tether that would raise the altitude over time. Over time the tether can be extended to the point that it can lower into the stratosphere use electric jet or prop power from solar panels thousands of miles above on the tether as it travels at airliner speed.
I think the question shouldn't be, what is our next space station but more like what is our next space stations.
China is building their own space station, you got the lunar gateway planned, and a couple groups and companies talking about it from the gateway foundation with their idea and Axiom wanting to build their commercial space station and using the international space station as a building site.
General (simple skill/purpose PRACTICAL use)
Specialist (technical skill/purpose at a HIGH LEVEL)
Average Person
A person uses hundreds of essential tools and electronic devices (no one thinks twice about)
But
They go to a Doctor, Dentist, Mechanic, Butcher...
Lacking time or just ignorant.
Then call the plumber to fix a faulty tap or a mechanic for an oil change.
one of my favorite content creators smashing it out of the park again.
Space stations from fuel tanks.
Skylab was launched in 1973 and used leftovers from the Apollo mission.
The SkyLab was on the S-IV based design
McDonnell Douglas converted existing S-IVB stages to the SkyLab Orbital Workshop.
I'd love for more insight into the process you take to create these episodes.
seconded
So a ideal station would be a dule rotation ringed station with a ship yard, cargo bay, dock yards, command center, habitats for over a thousand, hydroponic system for food and O2, massive laboratorie complex, and a orbital observatory.
We can focus on the ship yards and basic hab first to get it self sufficient and just start sending the materials to it.
This could allow us to rapidly develop our orbit and our star system by providing a majority of the infistructure we would need. And it would allow astronauts to train for Martin missions.
brilliant video, but i did laugh at the birds flying at 22:45 lol
Axiom Space is currently working to build the first commercial space station. The first module will launch in 2024 and the initial 4 modules all will be attached the ISS before free flying.
Multiple Starships will be most potential for all kinds of needs, be that a modular station or ever growing structure, or simply for deep space travel.
Even one of them used to hauling big rolls of weldable alloys will allow building faster, cheaper and actually huge structures that in turn can allow permanent and non-permanent modules to be integrated to the overall build.
You don't want to build a space based hotel without artificial gravity. You're guests would make a sizable mess everywhere. You couldn't afford to clean the mess.
The next station definitely needs to be somewhat higher, too, because the constant orbital corrections the ISS had to do to stay in orbit were bleeding fuel costs like nothing else.
0:29 *"No successor yet built, or even fomally planned and funded."*
Not by the US or Russia, but China on the other hand . . . _Orbital_ construction has already started.
Because the fact doesnt fit the narrative. The TianGong is a smaller but equally functional and may be have more amenty yes, your cell phone works on the TianGong. Lol, and It does open to other nations.
That is perfectly fine, Sir.... Orwell wrote 1984 in 1948.... Double PlusPlus
we need rotating habitats, but the math and physics are destructive to the station, if people, equipment, machines, vehicles & deliveries move around onboard. When the barycenter of mass is different than the center of spin, the Dzhanibekov effect can rip the station apart. There may be a way to move water around the station to keep the centers aligned, but we don't know how much time we have, or how to move that much water around quickly within the infrastructure, or the answer to the limiting question of "How close is good enough?"
First Space Station in Outer Space and/or with some Kind of earth Like Gravity will be a TRUE Leap in spacefare imo
You know you bring up an interesting concept, that raises the question, how big would a space station orbiting the moon have to be to see it from Earth without a telescope and how people would react to the man in the moon having a fly buzzing about its head.
I wonder what a new Starship booster could build with its diameter. Skylab size sections
I like the salute to Star Wars at 18:05.
I bet Isaac could design the heck out of a new ISS successor. I’d even bet money on it.
Research labs + resorts definitely exist. Ecology/biology/geology field stations are not infrequently co-located or even just part of a tourist facility. For example, many National Parks in the US have something like that.
Isaac, you keep bringing up the cost factor. What will determine the eventual configuration and space type will be solely based on its main directive. If it's space manufacturing, then that is a wonderful entry point to parcel out every component in the station's construction based on its collective ROI. I fear most people will never quite like living in outer space. We are Terrans; we like having our feet firmly planted on a solid body - not adrift in the vacuum of space. Temporary housing might best be suited to space travelers awaiting a transfer to other destinations like those scheduled to hollow out an asteroid that has been towed back to the Moon from the Asteroid Belt, or perhaps those ready to toil on a Lunar Colony gathering up HE3 for fusion power plants popping up down on Earth. Or even thawing ice found inside craters and using electrolysis, splitting H2O into Hydrogen and Oxygen for space fuel. In every case going forward for the next 50 years, the purpose on hand will likely not be research so much as some form of production or mining for resources.
I think the next space station will be commercial in nature. Possibly a hotel with sections for various industry experiments, movie sets, etc. The ISS cost $150 billion. You could probably get something three times the size for $50 billion these days. You could raise most of that via contracts with the industries mentioned. Basically time share it out to companies, etc. Whoever headed this project up would probably use a chunk of the money raised to build themselves a section for tourism, supplies, or some other money making venture. And of course if it was someone with their own rockets they could have a monopoly on transport to and from the station. And once they got things running, just a small percentage of profits going back into the station would allow for massive expansion over time.
There is a good bit of analysis buried in Seven Eves on the future of space stations. Having multiple specialised stations makes sense economically and from a design perspective, but risk has always been the decider between competing designs. More smaller stations are less resilient and have higher risks. The cheapest way to make a large station is by using a redirected asteroid as material. Need to be very forward thinking with getting it to the desired orbit though, as the low energy transfers take decades.
The Gateway concept with the rotating entry bay is almost exactly like the satellite you dock with in Captain Skyhawk for the NES.
Little tidbit: that game was published by Milton Bradley and developed by Rare.
Is ISS-2 aka Lunar Gateway(in one project form or another). After all Freedom and MIR-2 weren't originally designed as sisters either.
As for ISS, even when it is replaced by other station, it would still be called ISS. Because it is THE ISS. Even when all original modules would be phased out, the name will remain.
That station is going to be ultraluxurious space otel at this rate
@Waldel Martell they still are in the 3rd world
With the SpaceX Starship cargo volume being almost that of the ISS. I could see a Starship being used as a special short term space stations, with all supplies, equipment and crew are sent to orbit for months to a year doing whatever, then returning to earth. Send one up with a Bigelow unit and really have an instant Station much larger than we have now.
Good morning Everyone!
The last time I was this early, the alterans were still building gates.
I say have a central hub and connect 6 modified SpaceX starships to it with a docking module in the nose of the starship.
They need to make it in sections that can be detached in case something happens that threatens the whole space station, Each part can be separated and it will not affect the rest of the station too much
It would also recombine to fight space amoebas as Spacetron Defender of Orbital Plane.
Isaac your speech is getting better all the time man! Took me a min to recognize it’s your vid
Fun Fact: The F34 Lightning lifetime cost will be an estimated $1.727 TRILLION so America alone could buy 11 ISS just with that for a cost of basically a plane that is never really going to see a use in today's less violent future. Let that sink in. So far America has spent more money developing and making a WAR PLANE that has cost more than $400 BILLION so far more than twice the cost of the ISS, which is considered the most expensive building project. So yeah, cost is nothing if you have corporations and war involved. The next Space Station is already in the works by billionaires anyway to be a space hotel, followed by making it an Elysium style one for the rich and famous.
Amazing video Isaac, keep up the phenomenal work!
I am sure that some of the later additions to the ISS are still in good order and could be detached and be used for a base to build a new space station. Harvesting items in orbit and they could be adapted to blocks of a new station lowering the cost.
Wherever you park that station, it'll have to be in a clean orbit. It'll be large and therefore much more susceptible to penetration by orbital debris. If we're going LEO, let's at least CLEAN UP LEO before we try this.
The biggest bonus aside from cheaper launches thanks to companies like SpaceX is going to be 3D printing. Printing sections and parts is going to make it more viable and affordable to build space stations of the future. Not only that but if they can do it in space, having construction platforms in orbit that can build in place will save even more money.
What kind of DV requirements would be needed if you had 2 stations in the same orbit with one following behind 50 or 100 miles or whatever is deemed safe and you were to travel between them? What about having a ring station in the same orbit as an a microG station and rotate crews every 1-2 weeks? You get the benefit of having the microG station and being able to still study everything there, but you would also avoid the problems of prolonged weightlessness without the cost (ignoring the cost of an entirely separate station) of launching the crews up and down as often.
Interesting thought. To answer your question, if the stations are in the same orbit and fly at the same speed so as to constantly be at the same distance, the dV requirements would be really, really low, firing your maneuvering thrusters once would be enough, even though it would take some time to reach the other station. On that thought, why have them be 50 or 100 miles apart? Nothing stops the two (or more, why not a whole train of stations?) stations from being just a few km or maybe even less apart, so as to make it practical to travel between them with RCS only. Thank you for the interesting idea!
@@g.f.martianshipyards9328 you just picked those numbers to have room for safety. Wasn’t sure if having them 1 km apart would be enough margin of error in case something went wrong
Could imagine in a larger space community there would be at least 1 gravity station for off duty crews to spend some time (if for whatever reason they or their employers didn't want them back on earth for their time off)
@@harmonyspace5228 well, assuming the cost of launching is still in the millions, it would be cheaper to have them work 10 on, 3 off rotations between 1 and 0 g stations then have the crews swap out landslide every few months. Much over 2-4 weeks and you start having to have a recoup time once on the ground, so the rotations could make it so you still only have to launch a crew once every few months, which is the most dangerous part of the trip, reducing cost and liability, but without having the extended recovery time ISS crews have now?
@@ryanhamstra49 good point, plus I can imagine politics in the future might see limits put on how many government employees from each country can be in space at the same time. If some sort of space colonisation rivalry starts.
I like the idea of our next space station being built in orbit around the moon. It stretches our accomplishments instead of retreading old ground, and sets us up for the next important step, which is mining and manufacturing in space.
Got my drink and snack ready. Nothing meal time with SFIA.
Great minds guiding the future of space travel. I love it!
I have a Nebula question. I subscribe to Nebula directly rather than getting it included with Curiosity Stream because I get Curiosity Stream for free from my ISP. However, I usually just watch SFIA on UA-cam because I also have UA-cam premium and don't get ads other than sponsor reads. My understanding is that UA-cam premium views are worth more to creators than ad sense views. When Isaac says there is an extended video on Nebula I will watch that part there, which I plan to do in a few minutes. I originally subscribed to Nebula through Isaac's link. But I usually end up watching more videos from other creators on Nebula than I do SFIA. My question is this: What happens to my $3? Are all subscription fees (after expenses) divided up between creators based on total viewing time on Nebula? Is my $3 divided up based on what I watch on Nebula? Does Isaac get a certain percentage of my $3 so long as I am a subscriber because I signed up through his link? I am curious, would Isaac make more money if I watch his videos on UA-cam or Nebula? While I doubt that my personal viewing habits are likely to make or break Isaac financially, there are probably other people in a similar situation.
Thanks for bringing this up! I've been wondering the same thing ever since Nebula was introduced.
My main wish is lunar gateway plus some version of NASA’s Asteroid Redirect Robotic Mission, gathering asteroid samples to practice self sufficiency and ISRU just two days from home. It could also teleoperate a robotic lunar colony with less lag.
Love your stuff! Very much enjoy your voice/accent. Great listening.
You did good Arthur, keep letting your voice be heard, get it boy
For low gravity experiments we can stick some Bigalow space tents nearby