2023 BMW M2 vs M3 CSL (E46) | PistonHeads
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- Опубліковано 28 чер 2023
- The BMW M2 represents the end of an era - it's the final new M car to launch without any form of electrification. A pretty big deal, then, given BMW's legendary history when it comes to combustion engines. And speaking of legends...
The E46 M3 CSL isn't an M2 alternative, but is another end of an era M car. Back in 2003, it was the most powerful atmospheric straight-six BMW, with 360hp - and nothing would ever beat it. Can the 20-year-old classic still thrill in 2023? And what can the new M2 learn from the CSL? Over to Matt to find out.
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That E46 M3 CSL looks and sounds better than ever ❤
M3 CSL all day everyday compared to that Frankenstein's monster
Old school is best that’s why I’ll keep my 1M
The E46 M3 or even regular E46 3s have the greatest stance of all time in my opinion. The body has this magnificent tucked-in look from the rocker panel to DLO then theres 4 fender flares with wheels pushing out to the furthest corners. It is absolutely perfect stance of any car in motion. 2nd closest would be 96-01 M coupe and 993 911s. The metallic tones of inline six sounds epic as well. Having said that I also love the bulging fenders with tucked body of this G87 m2. I especially love the massive rear fenders blending perfectly into the rear deck and massive rear end. Very OG M coupe like which I absolutely adore. The front end is bit of a downfall but I will be getting this car after LCI preferably the last year m2 until going hybrid or ev for the next gen
3:22 it's M-track mode. 'half off' slip allowed. Based on a Bosch unit used in motorsport and is actually really great, especially for the time. You can hold a low angle slide without fully off DSC
M3 csl with a converted manual would be an ideal M car IMHO.
I actually like how the new M2 looks. I think many that hate it will over time begin to like this new style.
I’m with you. I like it too.
ngl i hated the M2, but when you put it next to the E46 it made me feel an immense amount of empathy for the new M2. just imagining the body dysphoria that M2 is experiencing makes me want to give it a hug. that's just cruel.
You mentioned "last of the S54 M cars". With respect, CSL production finished in 2004 I believe and there were later M products with the famed S54 - the Z4M with S54 and used brakes and steering from the CSL... (I have a coupe). Cheers!
Great, i sold my Z4 m 6 years ago, still miss it from time to time.
I’ve had mine for 12.5yrs. These little beauties fly under the radar. Sharing some components with the CSL, but come in factory manual. Mine has an Eventuri carbon intake and Supersprint exhaust which are more than enough.
Glad I wasn't the only one remembering that.
I only have the 3.0 Si...but love it! 6sp M too
Technically, CSLs were built only in 2003, all are MY2003. You are correct that the last model with the S54B32 was the Z4 M Coupe/Roadster.
nostalgia can cloud things though. I had an E46 M3 for 8 years, and enjoyed it. Surely the "best looking" M as said in the review. But let's not forget the stock suspension was horrendous by today's standards. With both under and over-steer when you did not want it, plenty of lean, slow steering, so everyone ran out and put camber plates and coil-overs on them asap. And the lightness of the E46; with the creaking armrests, and rattly rear shelf, and tearing unitbody suspension mounts, there is a reason cars are getting heavier. The truth is, this new M2 is the best BMW could do to bring back the ghost of the E46 M3, in this era of crash tests and computers. The use of a CSL is bit silly here too, since it fixes most of the base M3's issues, and was priced more like a ferrari when new.
some good, logical thoughts from an independent thinker. Regarding looks, I've seen 2 so far - a blue one which I didn't particularly like, and then a black one which was absolutely stunning - I was blown away by how aggressive and unique it looked.
1725kgs (claimed) is ridiculous, whatever you say, it's just far too heavy for a small sporty coupe
Just view it as a sporty coupe.
In my eyes it’s the new M3/4
Brilliant review! If not one of the best car channels out there. I bough the M2 a month ago now in black sapphire and I absolutely love it! And I had an M4 a year ago. It’s essentially an M4 but better looking in my opinion. Lighter and with a plug and play tune is as fast if not faster than an M3/4.
I really like the M2.
I think the previous gen M2C was an absolutely stunning car, and this isn't as pretty, but it's still great looking in it's own way.
The new M2 isn’t as bad in the flesh, if you order it in black. But I think the one we will look back on in 20 years time with nostalgia is the F87 CS
If you have to order a car in black to hide the lines of the body... it is NOT a good looking car.
Think you're right. the regular f87 was just too slow and had the wrong engine but the cs was probably perfect.... Still, the G platforms are night and day better than the F platforms (my g80 xdrive was so much better than my f80 cs) so I'm anxious to see how the g87 feels in person. car journalists seem to love it despite its weight and looks, which have already grown on me.
Regardless of the tech advances, functions, increased torque, power and no doubt speed. There is simply no way I'd ever choose not to take the CSL if I wanted to enjoy a drive.
The sound alone is more than enough. And it's across the rev range too.
Fantastic video Matt and co 👌 For the money and considering ridiculous (Political) EU restrictions, the G87 is a mega bit of kit! Let's enjoy them while we can, the future is looking dull...
The future is hideous if the G87 is what BMW a churning out 😂.
The F87 was a great looking bit of kit. It’s replacement is awful to look at and given what they cost, I’d want to be looking at it and thinking it looked fab. It’ll be amazing to drive, but the aesthetics kill it.
In Sweden, without the carbon seats, they are nearly 80k€ / 67k£. In what world is the M2 worth that much?! I'd rather spend 5k more and get the GTS4.0
@@TunedIntoCars exactly. One is an ugly, heavy version of a supposedly small coupe and the other a ground up sports car. Although by the time you look at the options list, the Porsche will be a lot more expensive.
BMW at Best - E46 M3 CSL or standard, E39 M5...the looks,built quality,reliability.. Classic and Icons
One morning, after a gut full of drugs, I woke up next to a sheila ugly in a way I never knew existed. Today, courtesy of this video, I’ve finally found peace.
Thanks BMW.
I heard that the m240i's in this m2 shape at the same weight absolutely chew through tyres, brakes and consumables on track at an alarming rate. Misha (nurburgring guy) ran an m3 g80 for a bit and they said they where surprised at how much they ate the brakes and tyres up. Everything wears out significantly faster than the previous generations due to the massive weight they have gained. I would say more power requiring more braking etc. Although you may not feel the weight as much here while in the car, your pocket will feel it when the brakes and tyres are shot to sh*t way quicker than your previous model. I think this is why they aint running the new m3/m4/m2 as ring cars. They would cost an absolute fortune in parts to keep them on track and the parts were taking ages to arrive. Kinda defeats the purpose of a track focused car if you ask me.
Agree 100%. I know it's no comparison, but my E30 325i has done 5 trackdays, and I have only just had to replace the tyres, and that was because of heat cycles - not tread depth. The only brake mods are a set of DS2500s and some 660 fluid. It just goes round and round all day and is still great fun. It will slide beautifully in the wet, it just needs a little more mid range grunt to break traction in the dry - unless the tyres have gone gooey! I have the parts for a 2.9 stroker. I have no desire to pay more for a pair of 275 tyres than I do for a full set of 205s.
The problem with ///M cars nowadays is the lack if a proper M Motorsports division. It shows!
Have no issue with the M2, other than the torque converter auto but then you just order the 6MT. Trouble is the Cayman 4.0 exists
I know it’s been said many times before but the induction noise on the csl is f@@king outrageous!
Its heavier then a new Aston Martin DB12 or Ferrari 812 Superfast😂 Both gigantic, luxurious Gran Turismo’s with enormous engines and gearboxes.
E92 V8 may be underrated as last na M3
I'm all for making any excuse to get BMW to give you their CSL for a burn but you're completely ignoring how great the last gen M2 Comp and M2 CS were!
I will choose the E46 CSL all day!!!
Production quality is top notch and your auto journalism is among the best. Why do you not have 1M subs?
Excellent review. Thank you! I wouldn't trade it for my 12-year-old 1M.
Have you driven it ?
I love the looks, squared off and boxy
PLEASE DO THIS FORMAT WITH THE NEW CIVIC TYPE R VS OLD INTEGRA TYPE R, OR BETTER YET NSX-R.
Great content guys thanks and keep it coming!!
I’m suggesting this because I was too young to own an original ITR when they were new/available, but now the FK8 & replacing that now the FL5 CTRs perfectly fit my family needs these 25 years later. I fully understand the performance and capability gap that would exist, but I’m interested in the tactile differences and also similarities if there are any notable ones. Thanks
I think the new M2 looks amazing and well done BMW for thinking outside of the box and designing something that doesn’t look like everything else 🔥🙏🏾👏🏾✊🏽
Like this guy - good presenter
I had an SMG with upgraded software (Frank Smith) tuned CSL logic and I thought it was amazing. Only twice was it ever clunky and it was me shifting into 2nd at like 10 or 15 kph - my fault. Never missed a shift, rev matched, launch control, both hands always on the wheel. I've since manual swapped it and if you MUST have a clutch and shifter sure, but you'll be just as happy with a tuned SMG, I think it adds character and it DOES date it, to a time when BMW was still a company primarily of engineers. The new materials in a new M2 don't feel newer than the materials my 20+yr M3.
Thank you for wearing your watch on the left wrist.
Nice review. I don’t like the exterior design of the car, but maybe painted in black with lighter colors for the wheels could be good enough.
Not enough reviews mention how easy it is to manual swap the SMG in the E46. The gearbox is the same, you're just adding the pedals and stick.
As a previous owner of both a clown shoe M Coupe and. Z4 M Coupe, several vert Z4s, a Bangle butt 650, and a Dame Edna 528, I can only say that people tend to piss and moan about many BMW designs that end up proving their their merit over time. Hell, I really like this one out of the box.
Ppl complaining they want more refinement and quality then complain that a cars getting heavier cos of it.
I think the previous gen M2 will be way more revered and sought after than this bloated boxy mess. The performance argument is redundant with EVs, so whether it's faster than the previous M2, or even the CSL makes absolutely no difference. I'd take the CSL / previous M2 over this any day of the week.
Excellent presenter!
£100k for a CSL now? Those things were bolted to BMW dealership floors, my local dealer couldn’t sell them at £26k new. I tried one and couldn’t get past that gearbox.
If looks and performance I believe the f87 m2 cs competition would be the middle point between the e46 m3 csl and the new m2, while the new m2 looks is subjective to the viewers its still is a very powerful car with a shorter wheelbase than the m4 and having the s58 engine just imagine its capability when properly tuned and built.
9:25 SHEEEEEEP
That super heavy M2 will shred tyres and destroy brakes on track coz you can't really argue with physics. I can't believe how heavy it is.
I have a m3 zcp and I'll keep that any day of the way.
Good review. BMW have really messed up the M2, still, the F87 is a fantastic car. AMG have also messed the C63. Sad times.
Did we watch the same video?? Because he seemed to be quite fond of the new m2
@@chamaldealwis9 That's what I was thinking! Multiple comments here are slagging off the M2, but the guy who actually drove and reviewed the car loves it!
@@Kelveron sofa journalists🤣
Completely disagree. This new M2 is the 🔥
@@chamaldealwis9 I’ve owned M340i with the B58 and spent time in the G83 M3 with the S58… The M2 is basically an ugly slightly shorter M4. That’s personally not what I want from an M2. Recently sold my C63 and jumped in an FL5 Type R, much more fun drivers car in comparison to the new M2, unless top trumps is your thing.
Give me the previous M2 CS
I love this car. I put in an order the minute I saw it in the dealership, especially getting it in manual which is probably the last M car anything with a manual. BTW many have dyno it. Figures are any where from 460 hp to 470 hp at the wheels which means the engine makes close to 500 hp. BMW has not detuned a thing in this engine IMO.
Having driven both G80 and G87 already, I can assure you that the engine in the M2 is detuned and it definitely feels it compared to the M3 Comp.
@@mariodiniz21 I didn't say the M3 Comp. The M2 is not the Comp either right? Compare apples to apples. I have driven both the regular M3 and the M2 and I can't tell the difference in power delivery.
I want both of them 😅
The M2 is definitely a car that needs to be in a darker colour to work. I'm also not keen on the screens inside, it just doesn't look right with it.
By the way, the SMG might feel old, but my experience of it is that when you get to learn how to get the most from it, it rewards. It is a lot of fun if you do learn it.
The 8 speed ZF is too good as an auto, nothing I've driven with it made me want to use the paddles. Which makes me wonder how suited it is to an M car.
No steering feel in the CSL, yea ok.
yeah lol, what was that about
@@KootBear No idea , I have a E46 M3 and it has great steering feedback and the CSL has the same rack just faster. Also he didn't know what the Mtrack button was...
There was a time when bmw m cars were considered a dream car.
Im gutted they have done this to the m2. Im an OG m2 owner here and it breaks my heart to see that absolute state of it now. I for sure have moved away from the brand now. They have lost their way and their identity.
Do you your cars based on looks or driving dynamics ?
@@timeservices697 Both are massively important. These things cost alot of money and you have to get the looks and dynamics just right.
The original true M car built to be obtainable was 4 cylinders. That for me is what makes a true M car
Neither of these look very good.
Compared to Z4M Coupe.
This dude tho.. ”I wont try these brakes on the Nurburgring” He should visit that track. He’d realize you hardly use the brakes compared to other circuits. Also the CSL brakes are single-pistons sure but actually not bad. Good pads, fresh fluid, never fails.
No one has mentioned that the new M2 has the same light treatments as the Rolls Royce
What is even happening with BMW 😭 E46 still so timeless.
Wassup with the golf build
New episode tomorrow!
I think the new M2 would make for a good addition to the Lego Speed Champions.
And thats where the positives end
Did you actually listen to the review 😂
The M2 is akin to the M3/4 re-design, just less severe. It'll grow on people quicker. The F cars, as good as they look, are a bit softer visually. Size and weight are where they missed the mark. If they stuffed the S58 in something E82 sized we'd be talking.
1M vs E46 M3 CSL Vs M2.. sat in the CSL at BMW UK and only 30k on the clock.
It’s the looks of the g87 😢 I’d take the f87 m2 cs all day, not even close
The new m2 an extra 200 kg !!! Extra wtf 😳
Looks pants 🩲
Followed a new M2 into a petrol station last week and I want one. My current car? The now old M2 😢
You are better of with the old one than this new train wreck ...
I quite like the new look,definitely not as pretty as the old,and the sound of the original, oh my goodness!pitty new cars are getting so heavy
Should have been the previous gen m2 or m2cs not a 20 year old.
How random
sorry but m2 is simply 250kg to heavy. you ll find out during first track day just how long those brakes lasts...
Every car journo has said otherwise
And most car journalists are clueless and for the most part aren’t allowed/confident enough to push it on track
@@BingChillin-nd9ws no car journalist took it to the track... Listen to Micha about new M3 and its "pottential" on the nurburgring
@@michal.laskowski.eah fair, but all the reviews seem to be complementing the brakes which is a pretty new thing for M cars. I guess time will tell.
I know it’s a lot of weight compared to the old one, but in the grand scheme it’s not a crazy weight. For me this car is the new M3 in my eyes and that’s how I’ll view it.
I feel like this was the wrong person to review this. Should of been someone who is more of BMW enthusiast to really talk about what was said in this review. Especially about the M3
Don’t know what’s wrong with the brakes, even my old 330ci when it’s brakes were fresh were incredibly sharp.
What’s that static noise in the background?
E46 still looks modern
Why is every motoring journalist now completely failing to mention that every current M car is hideous to behold?
slate their cars = no car lent to review = out of the job
In todays day, no one can say anything bad about anything without an unjustified amount of negative feedback. And when their paycheck depends on it, they’ll play it safe
They don’t want to upset the press divisions of the manufacturers, who give them the cars to test.
Should have a e92 gts as the last of the naturally aspirated M cars.
BMW need to fire their entire design team.
Indeed; the latest M2 is so ugly especially compared to the E46.
Absolutely agree. It all started going wrong with the G80 M3, and it’s got no better over time.
I don’t like statements like this normally. But spot on this time.
Nope.
A lot of real stupid kids commenting.
Just reaffirms what I allready thought, just how "right" the E46 looks even today, ive no doubt how good the M2 is to drive, but god its ugly, luckily you cant see it from behind the wheel
Yeah I’d have one all murdered out in the CS that’s coming with carbon everywhere
Boxy BMW M is back .. YES! Butch evolution of E30 M.
I love my copy.
Just imagine the M2 with a front lip in it's body color... It would tie everything together and make a grill not a moustache
It weighs as much as an f10 5 series for gods sake
... The steering wheel button is track mode with reduced DSC intervention. There's something called Google this reviewer should check out so he doesn't have to ask silly questions like this 😊
8:46, you know it's a commonly traversed road by car guys when the sheep simply don't give a shit.
Well e46 m3 it's bmw best m3 but today it can be beat on a ordinary track by a simple m240i.G87 m2 it's a superior car,that's a fact.
M3 e46 CSL 4sure 🥰
2 BMWs together means 2 lots of Dashboard fault lights continuously popping up all the time ?
I had a Carbon Black E46 Convertible back in the 00s and it was 10 months of misery...... I had Mini Cooper s works and that was the same utter shite ?
Those fake crackles on the M2 are grim.
The M2 looks like a kit car from the front
It looks like one of Leepu’s creations from the front. 😂
@@samcourt6228 exactly 😆 they spent all the design budget on EVs and had to get him in over a weekend to knock it out.
A bone stock base C8 would beat both these around the track with much cheaper running costs.
stopped listening when you said "spend 5 mins with the smg" SMG's like manuals take time to get to know and how to use. Once you learn how to use an SMG they are superb. and period correct for the car too.
as an end of an era car...boy did they make a stinker
It won't be. We'll go back to combustion engines when people realise electric doesn't work and synthetic fuel does
The M2 look horrific, a face even it's mother would struggle to love.
It's dire looking, all the latest m-cars are, I'm not questioning your impartiality but, like cycling magazines I follow I wonder where a lot of their advertising money comes from...... It's horrendous. I'm saving, and saving for a 1m that I always listed after, that's where my money will be going......
Realistically that M3 csl wouldnt be a pleasure to own. Worry of spares, putting miles on it with depreciation, wear and tear in seats/stone chips etc. Its not refined. Its not a daily. At the end of the day its 20 yrs old and will feel it. It is slow in todays world of performance cars. It would just never be used unless u were very rich retired and had good weather.
Idk 3900lbs with lackluster downshifts doesn’t make it a drivers car
Not really interested watching comparison of AT M cars.
Good times are over for now but who knows, once this green bs movement is over, maybe we can get back to great N/A engines.
We can only hope and pray
I don't believe electric will work
I simply can’t get past the looks. It looks like somebody designed it in Minecraft. Either that, or some kind of kit car trying imitate a BMW.
Nothing is pure anymore? Mx5 and gr86 beg to differ. Yeah they are not fast, but I rather have fun
The E46 BMW is the most beautiful BMW ever made. The new M2 is hideous.
1,8 tons XD