How Much Have Bikes Really Changed In The Last 10 Years?
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- Опубліковано 11 тра 2024
- The best 2024 road bikes have so many more features than the bikes available just 10 years ago. But, are bikes actually better now than they used to be? Sam Gupta takes a look at the Cannondale SuperSix Evo to try and make sense of how bikes have changed over the past 10 years. From disc brakes, to carbon fibre, to gearing, finishing kit and price, there are a lot of points to compare.
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Exactly the same thing that happened to cars, they got faster, more comfortable and more refined but they also got more expensive, more complicated, heavier and harder to work on.
2015 tarmac comp $3000, $3800 in 2024 dollars. mech and rim brakes.
2024 tarmac comp $4500. di2 and disc brakes
2024 tarmac sport $3800. mech and disc brakes.
just inflation
Faster and heavier don’t go together it’s the drugs that’s improved
@@Tarmaccyclocross actually, aero trumps weight 99% of the time.
@@happykanye I’m certain your example isn’t representative of the industry as a whole.
@@SecwetGwiwer cars didn’t actually get more expensive though. Bikes did sure, but cars got way better value for money. One of the few commodities that we are actually getting more for our money. Adjusting for inflation and ignoring the extremes of pricing, cars have stayed relatively the same since the 90s. However, cars are now significantly faster, more fuel efficient, safer, smarter, and more reliable. I.e. a Ford Mustang and Toyota Camry from the 90s pricing compared to now have relatively the same.
The reason why cars feel more expensive is disposable income have dropped due to cost of living going up and other items going up higher than inflation.
We've been down this path so many times before. Does anyone remember Coda components? There was a decade or so when Cannondale bikes came with Coda cranks, hubs, stems, rims, bars, brake levers (pre-br'ifters), and it was all house brand stuff, exclusive to Cannondale.
There was a time when going fast meant having a French bike, made to order, right down to the seatpost height (integral to the frame, no adjustment possible) and rear dropouts specific to which components you wanted to run (Simplex, Huret, Sachs, or Campagnolo). Ditto bottom bracket threading, and your rear hub thread had to match the freewheel of your choice.
A similar situation exists today for wheelsets: Shimano, SRAM, or Campagnolo cassette compatibility. Ditto derailleur mounting options.
I'm glad we have lots of choices, but I don't believe that current performance improvements are in proportion to the price increases. If it makes you happy to pay $10K-$20K for 1% or less performance edge, then go for it. I've been there, done that.
Just remember: you are the biggest aero penalty on your bike, followed by your clothes, and your wheels.
Ditto weight penalties, it's you, then your wheels, then your components and frame.
There are lots of options for going fast on last year's bike, or last decade's bike, and you can put fast kit on any bike and still keep some extra cash in your pocket.
If anyone made it this far, thanks for listening to this 69 year old, wrench wielding, crank turning maniac of a cycling fan and bike restorer😁
French bikes still rule! I live in France and my Look 756 Optimum is boss! I also have elderly Peugeots with Simplex and Huret gears. Also, I mustn’t forget my Gitane Mach, 3 x chainwheel 1992 model, with Shimano GFX 7 speed. It has Columbus tubing and stainless spokes! I love silver on a bike. It shines in the hot sun! Black? Not so much.
I have my 2014 six Evo. Bought it for £650 in 2018.
Put 5000km on it since then. I have rebuilt almost everything on the bike including all bearings, chains, brakes, rings, tyres and wheels... All my maintenance costs for the last 7 years, together with the bikes price, hasn't even cost me even 1/5 of the cost of a new six Evo. And that's for a bike that weighs almost 2kg heavier... It makes no sense to me at all.
I would never buy a brand new bike like the 6 EVO Lab 71 for $16K unless I'm a professional rider. If you don't compete, the Canyon Grail gravel ebike can easily be converted to a full road bike and outperform any TT bike. It's only cheating if you're racing in my opinion. But yeah...buying a used bike is the best way to ride and not get shunned by the purists.
Something about the idea of having my bike rendered inoperable by a dead battery is so antithetical to the reasons I love cycling. I can't imagine a world where I would opt for electronic shifting if I have the choice.
I'd rather have the 2014 Supersix...
But with deep dish carbon 80s, now it's aero also
@@mmurmurjohnson2368 no thanks, we don’t ride in wind tunnels outside…
just need a threaded insert for a BSA BB and it is nothing more that most people will actually need. Still riding my 2009 Six Carbon (with stock gear levers) and my first release CAAD8 (Made in USA). The only trouble I know have is shortage of 10 sp groupset parts and scarces 23c tyres options...
I have a 2014 Supersix with the SRAM groupset, but I prefer the road feel of my 2001 Colnago C40. For a real magic carpet ride there was a titanium bike called the Ottrot. I believe it had a carbon fork. From a crotchty 70 year old who prefers rim brakes on road bikes and interchangeble components. This spring I've been almost exclusively riding a 1998 steel Colnago Technos. It's the only bike I have with a still working speedo. I've seen many trends come and go; it's all about the rider, not the bike. See you guys on the road!
I find it hilarious that we say bikes have become much faster with aero and disc brakes yet a huge percentage of strava kom's in my area are still from 2014 to 2017. Surely if bikes have improved so much modern bikes would be destroying all the kom's?
Well, I guess most people don't replace their super expensive high end bike every year :)
I guess times have changed. Mid 2010s were about pretending to be a pro by hunting KOMs on Strava, whereas mid 2020s are about pretending to be a pro by riding absurdly priced disposable bikes that you can't adjust, fix, upgrade or maintain on your own anymore.
Good point. Surely your impression of local Strava is the most important metric.
@erich8258 good point I'm guessing you must have a much bigger data set than strava we could use?
@@erich8258 So... how's that new bike you just bought?
Some things are inaccurate: Cannondale claimed aero features with the 2014 supersix, the weight of the complete mid range bike was a bit over 6.5 kg, the black Inc version was well below 6 kg. In 2014 most of the bikes were equipped with a compact chainset and an 11-28 cassette, maybe in 2003/2004 you had a bike with a 39/25 as a factory spec.
I own a 2014 Trek 1.1, it came with a 12-25 cassette and a 50/34 172.5mm crankset. I swapped over to 11-30 and 45/34 165mm
Imo the old bike has a much better cost/value ratio for 99% of regular riders. Im sure the new one is faster and brakes better, more comfy, but you dont really use it to its full potential, unless you are racing. The old one is still a very good spec bike today, cant go wrong with either.
The classic Supersix was one of the best looking bike ever produced. The current one looks like any of its fellow performance bikes.
That’s a lot of words to explain away how 10 years adds weight, cost, and complexity.
Still riding my 2014 Emonda and really finding it hard to justify a full bike upgrade at this point. Disk brakes would be nice, 2x12 would be nice, but nothing is really ruining my experience right now after upgrading to 28c tires.
Rim brakes for the win in 2024 ♥️
100% mate
But only with SwissStop pads...
Agreed, and 99% of people complaining about how rim brakes are crap either only used stock pads and had no clue how to set up their brakes properly or they focus on the "carbon rims in the wet" argument, as if that was relevant for a significant number of bike users and for a significant amount of their riding experience.
Oh, and rim wear? My Zondas have done over 20.000 km and over 200.000 m of ascent (and descent) including in the wet and their rims are barely worn. Easily good for at least as much more riding.
People don't complain about the stopping power on dry tarmac. They complain about stopping power in the wet, mud, or other suboptimal conditions.
Further: With disk brakes, you do not have to re-build your expensive rims every couple of years. Instead you swap your brake rotors for 20 bucks each.
When it comes to adjusting improvements, you'll get that from using hydraulics over cables. If you use hydraulic rim brakes, you'll have this advantage as well.
@@NevermindXY Eh? My wheels are 17 years old....
I may be living in 2015 prices world but paying over £1000 and only getting Tiagra is a bit of a travesty
After adjusting for VAT and exchange I don't think that's a lot more than a $1,000 USD.
Trek Domane AL2
R2000 and Trek Rim
$999.99
Trek Domane AL2 Gen 4. R2000 & Tektro Mech Disc $1,199.99
Canyon Endurace 7
R7000 with Hyd Disc
$1599
Canyon Endurace 7
R7100 with Hyd Disc
$1,699
I think Tiagra is on it'a way out possibly. Nothing available in common sizes in the major brands I checked.
@@gk5891 That's true. Weight is another thing - spending a grand and still ending up with a bike closer to 10kg. There's a bike by a small UK manufacturer, Boardman SLR 8.9, which is Shimano 105, Carbon 8.9kg carbon frame, £1200. Not entirely sure it's available overseas but pretty tough to beat right now.
@@thomHD
Riddle sent me a promotional for $1299 Aluminum and $1799 CF with R7100. Also the Van Rysel Aluminum is $1,199 with 105.
If you start with a $4,649 Frameset like the Canyon Ultimate CFR it's going to be expensive with any groupset. When I can buy a new USA Ti Frameset for $1,150 its hard for me to justify 4x the money for glorified plastic.
From a group rider perspective, barely any change. Disc brakes would be the biggest single change. Ride the old road bike.
If you look at MTB or even gravel they've had far more change over the same period. But the old road bike is fine.
They have become prohibitively expensive and as ugly as can be
Definitely too expensive for me but way more beutiful imo (not in all cases - specialized tarmac)
@@mitchellsteindlernah even that’s a beauty
For a regular cyclist disc brakes make taking your bike apart much more difficult. Want to change your stem or pack your bike for a holday? Major hassle. As for battery operated gear change systems I'll stick with mechanical. My 20 year old Dura Ace still works perfectly, I just change the cables every now and then, which anyone can do at home.
I beg to differ. I have two rim brake bikes and two disc brake bikes. I retired one rim brake bike the other day and the second will be on my rollers. it is an amazing bike, but after going for 30mm on my main bike it is no going back. it's slower and less comfortable. And I don't have the same confidence especially since the rim brake surface is worn on it. The world moves on.
@@GeirEivindMork I agree.
@@GeirEivindMork you beg to differ yet you failed to answer any of the very valid points @sirpatrickbikes mentioned
@@11robotics "disc brakes making taking your bike apart more difficult" - no, it does not. I can change wheels equally fast or faster on my disc / through axel bike than on my old rim brake / qr. I got two wheelsets for both my disc brake bikes so I change them out every now and then. Never had any issues.
"change stem" - I don't change my stem, because it is right for my use. but if I would like to, it is the exact same procedure on my bmc as it is on my rim brake storck since neither has an integrated cockpit.
"pack your bike for a holiday" - I commute every day with my disc brake / electronic gearing bike and I can't fathom how it is harder on that than on my rim brake bikes.
"battery operated vs mechanical" - my head unit tells me when it needs to be recharged, so outside of that I never have to worry about cable stretch. so in my four years of ownership of that bmc, I have had zero issues. I've done a few adjustments in my weekly services on my mehcanical bikes each season. Now that's not that much of a hassle, but compared to zero on electronical.
But then there are the positives. With disc brakes I can run wider tires. and that is a game changer. my 25mm equipped storck feels rough compared to my 30mm equipped bmc. My brakes works perfectly no matter the weather - on my storck the brake track is so worn that if I were to keep it on the road I will cosider new rims. that will never happen on my disc brake bmc.
I still have to check chain wear and lubricate, but outside of that - modern road bikes takes everything that annoyed me about bikes out of the equation. No longer will I go out on a ride just to listen to a slightly misaligned mech due to cable stretch again. My kids will have mechanical until they have proven they are active enough to warrant electronical, though. it is still a cost.
BUT i do understand the purists. a perfectly adjusted higher end mechanical groupset is just lovely. traditional rim brake bikes look awesome. Nothing wrong with it. It is just that I don't appriciate that side of it in my daily riding. I want things to work day to day with as little hassle as possible, and electronic and disc brakes takes me closer to that.
@@GeirEivindMork
- taking a bike apart means removing/replacing more than just your wheels, and a lot of people do that on a regular basis for various reasons (maintenance and deep cleaning, upgrades, transport, setup changes)
- the stem change argument is indeed personal as some try out different bike fits during the lifetime of a bike, whereas others don't, and it only is a relevant argument if a (fully) integrated cockpit is used (which is clearly the case for the bike in this video)
- commuting is not road cycling and the needs of a commuter and of the bike thereof are hardly relevant for the needs of a road biker, some of which actually travel on a regular basis by car/plane/train to nice places where they can enjoy their bike rides
- cable stretch is the most absurdly overrated issue when it comes to mechanical groupsets, and if one doesn't understand how a barrel adjuster works or finds that too much of a hassle then they more than deserve to pay the absurd premium on electronic groupsets
- I more than once forgot to recharge my head unit, my power meter, or even my smartphone before going out on long rides; the batteries of my speed sensor and of my HR monitor have died on me mid ride (but I always carry a spare for those); it was really annoying/inconvenient when they died on me or when I had to recharge them while riding - the most annoying bit being having to ride with my head unit in my back pocket while it charged from a power bank. The idea that I may forget to recharge my groupset and that it may stop working mid ride (which I also witnessed when riding with others), and I know it would happen eventually to me too, is completely unacceptable to me. And clearly much more of a hassle than turning a barrel adjuster every now and then to fine-tune my derailleur indexing.
I still ride a Scott CR1 SL which I built in 2006 . It's just over 6kg, comfortable and quick.
Beautiful bikes. My CR1 was stolen a few years ago. I miss it. Black and silver. Super classy!
Easy & only answer is yes we are getting ripped off
lol, my road bike is from 2007 and I still don’t feel it’s so obsolete I need to drop thousands of pounds on a 2024 bike!
My first one was made in 2008 or 2009 and the only obsolete part about it is tire clearance. 25 mm tires on 15 mm internal rim width is the widest I can go, I cannot use newer, wider wheels on this frameset.
Now, I'm on a frameset ten years newer than my previous one, so I can switch to 19 mm internal rim width wheels (still on 25 mm tires, no need to go wider for the time being at least) whenever I'm ready.
Amen,my road bike 1998 Cannondale,put new tyres on it a few times ......
Riding 45kph solo on a flat road with no wind is some serious wattage. 35kph is fast for me, and that's usually with a tailwind. I'm not sure if I could go over 45kph for anything over 2mins before collapsing at the side of the road!
There is a powerful trend towards sourcing , buying and selling of SUPERB examples of high end Road Bikes from 2000's
They provide majority of Road cyclists , all the performance, comfort and handling parameters, at a fraction of their Orginal price.
They provide " The ULTIMATE ALTERNATIVE " , when compared to modern GEN bikes , especially what you get for your money.
I have been actively buying / selling either " NOS " or slightly used bikes , components for these reasons
I still have my bike from then and it’s still the sexiest one every time I see it.
1) Specialized also has a parts supplier called Stout my 2009 Stump jumper has a stout hub and Short's 2022 Rockhopper has a few stout parts including stem and cranks. (I assume it is an in house brand as I have never seen it anywhere else). Specialised has four levels of in house components: Stout, Specialized, Roval and S-Works.
2) It is weird if you go on Cadex's website there is a picture of a Factor bike on the home page.
3) That is not how you pronounce Bontrager.
My 1989 Raleigh Peak: 28 lbs. 26 inch wheels. No suspension. Rim brakes.
My just built nos 2017 Sworks Epic: 25.2 lbs. 29" wheels. Full suspension. Disc brakes.
When I put them side by side its amazing to see the progression in mtb tech. Both considered high end at their time. But I can go soooo much faster on the Sworks.
The ergonomics of GRX 810 brake levers is such as a massive improvement over 10 years and the leverage change in GRX Maks brake power incredible from the hoods. Where is my Apex levers couldn’t even stop the bike on the hoods
When you discussed OEM I was surprised you didn't mention things like the seat post which are less than universal nowadays, Integrated headsets and handlebars fall into the same category. I also love the look of traditional rim brake bikes, but don't love having to replace wheels when the braking surface wears, if you could just get a new rim that would ease some of the pain
I don't want to knock on modern tech. This stuff is fantastic and it works really really well. That being said: I recently build up an early 2000s bike and it was just so easy. Only a few tools needed, putting in cables was super simple, components still work, rides great. Now with bleeding brakes (I still think disc brakes are fantastic, though), cables being internal, proprietary parts, plenty of parts needing special tools to install them … still doable as a home mechanic but much more comlicated.
I like both brake systems - the rim brake as well as the disc brake. As mentioned in the video there are good reasons for both of them.
In my opinion, the really big advantage a modern bike has over something that is 10 years old is tire clearance. Being able to run a 28mm tire is great, I have seen many older frames max out at 25 mm. Outside of that the advantages are minimal for the average rider. Just grab an older bike and a set of used aero wheels and you have a pretty slick setup for under 2 grand easily.
I have a 2014 Evo build that I recently put together. It was 2021 when parts were still hard to find and everything was insanely expensive. The goal was to build a 12lb bike for under $5k that could be ridden every day. It was built with The 11 speed red group and weighed in at 12.8 lbs with pedals, 2 bottle cages, power meter, and garmin mount. (this was with a pair of DT tubular wheels and tires) With a set of Giant SLR 0 wheels and tubeless tires It comes in at under 12.5. It also rides as good as most modern bikes save for the disc brakes and lack of aero shape.
You have to say wheels are one reason bikes cost more now. Up until recently you bought your own carbon wheels. I remember how the top of the range giant propel was a rare bike that came with zipp firecrests and not training wheels or a in-house brand.
I think the old Evo has a better paint design.
2010s Cannondales are the last ones that look good in terms of paintwork and branding design.
That's weird. My bike hasn't changed at all.
I changed more than my bike over 20 years
Easier to ride? How are modern bikes easier to ride? That comment at the end is non-sensical.
Of the many bikes I get to ride on, none of them felt any more difficult to ride than the other, only compliance and their riding dynamics feel different.
Wider tyres and better brakes would quite arguably do this. Especially comparing riding with 32mm tyres rather than 23mm on bumpy roads.
I have my 2016 Super Six Evo in the garage. SRAM Red 50/34 with 11-28 on the back makes it fine for climbing. I love the look and the simplicity of it. I’m sure the new model is fabulous but the price is eye watering.
That 2014 is still a great bike and you could still ride it today. If you put some nice new carbon wheels on it, it would be great.
As a former racer and owner of a Cannondale Supersix Hi Mod circa 2010, a Supersix Evo 2014 Hi Mod1 and recently purchased Cannondale Supersix Hi Mod 1, I can attest to a marked improvement both in speed and comfort in the newest incarnation.
I'm fourteen years older, but my ability to go up hills and the ability to fight the wind on my current steed is far more than I ever expected. I do find the newest one a little bit twitchy compared to the others and it's heavier than its predecessors which I feel more carrying up and downstairs but not up the hills, but it is far superior in every other way.
Long live rim brakes and mechanical shifting!
in my opinion I've been seeing a big shift towards other materials and custom builds with more of a focus on day to day riding, adventures and ease of maintenance. I fully expect the options from brands to grow to reflect these trends and brands to try and optimize their performance changes for a home mechanic bit by bit.
How would the old bike stand against a £5000 bike then? Pound per pound instead of model by model.
I have this exact 2014 evo in red 😂 it’s still a great bike and I’m a front pack rider
Yes, I have 1 bike with disc brakes, there are okay, BUT, I don't ride in the rain or dusty dirt roads. That is were disc's better perform . So either disc or caliper are fine with me, as my 5 other bikes are caliper equipped . If some wild life jumps out in front of me, at 20mph , no type of brake is going to save my butt. Thanks. KB
Discs allow much wider tyres, which on the awful UK roads is a bonus......Something which the disc naysayers always forget.
That happened to me - two mooses jumped across the narrow forest road and I nearly hit them. It was a cow moose and her calf, so I could have been in serious trouble. Instead they only stopped around 50 meters away and started eating leaves from small trees. The cow moose barely looked in my direction. My brakes really saved me. (MTB with disc brakes)
Yes, sitting here with a broken hip I can tell you. There was a pothole in the forest that I didn`t see. Although I would never go back for a rim brake on a mtb, it's mainly the driver that is causing the damage. On the road, in most conditions I prefer my rim brake bike, but I must admit on wet conditions the disc is better.
@@animalgarden825”mooses” isn’t a word. It’s always been two moose or one moose.
I'm a budget minded, hobby begginer and don't know much about there more technical related subjects. Having said this i'm debating with something similar: do i buy a new triban rc120 (hailed by many as one of the best entry level/ budget bikes) or a used and older, half priced triban 3 (also had the same title and was regarded as one of the best used bargains in the years that followed)? Related to the video topic, only on a titghter wallet. 😀
I have a 2010 Colnago M10 with Campag Record (50/34+11-28) and some modern-ish 50mm carbon rims with 28mm tubeless tires. It is truly an amazing bike - fantastic handling, all the gears you need, comfortable, gears that "just work", brakes that don't squeal, lightweight, very easy to maintain. I have a 2024 disc-braked gravel bike with electronic shifting and I just don't see a huge improvement.
I think a modern aero bike would save me
Forgot to mention, the frame was £500 on ebay.
On smooth roads that bike looks great but so many pot hole filled or uneven roads mean that they’re not that versatile, seeing fewer spokes is very aero until the spokes break or wheels need truing.
In general I think bike manufacturers have basically made advancements for profitability, even if you ignore the price the bike components will cost a fortune. Look at continental gp5000 tyres price or a carbon wheel.
The pros and speed fanatics will be thrilled but for most people I think it’s an avoidable upgrade.
Don’t agree that the traditional bikes are better looking, not helped by the over the top branding. Not mentioned is being about to use 28 to 32mm tyres in todays bikes which gives more confidence downhill and on the flats, which makes the modern bike faster.
Ksyrium wheels are from a time where high end bikes were delivered with "placeholder" standard wheelset.
Lugged steel outperforms carbon long term structurally alone but if you add the weather elements, there’s no comparison. Carbon parts* have their place regardless.
Steel rusts dude lol what are you smoking 😅
I have no car and 5 ti Campagnolo bikes
I’ve ridden across the USA 4x
63. I rode 125miles the other day
Maybe it's because I only got into cycling 2 years ago but I like the aesthetic of disc brakes comoared to rim brakes.
Great video. I would luke to see deeper analysis of the prices.
I've just bought a cube attain road bike (2023) model after the chain stay on my trek that i had for 15 years snapped. It's a nice ride but for a brand new bike it's making lots of annoying noises. Don't think i'm going to be a fan of hydrolic brakes either.
Late adopter of disc brakes on road bikes - thought they were a ridiculous idea. Having ridden with them for the last couple of years, though, there is no doubt in my mind they are significantly better than rim brakes. Descending the Croix de Fer on tubs with carbon rims last summer reinforced this - horribly sketchy - particularly as the weather couldn’t have been better.
1:33 Small weight penalty? So much for brutal honesty
Disc brakes and electronic shifting can improve your riding experience. Having a bigger range cassette will benefit most people - in the end, I am impressed how little other gains were found in the last decade -
Coming from a happy 2011 supersix rider :)
GREAT VID, my cycling bro. Informative, enjoyable! 🚴🏻♂️🚴🏻♂️🚴🏻♂️🚴🏻♂️🚴🏻♂️
Had a 2014 Domane I bought in China. Incredible bike. So fast. So responsive.
I still ride my Trek 2008 Bontrager race with rim brakes, with the only upgrade on tyres available to me being a switch to 25mm. Love the bike, the self maintainability. I don’t care about aero watt gains as my focus is on exercise, not race winning. I simply cannot justify switching to an exorbitantly expensive bike to buy and have serviced. We should be voting with our wallets & stop paying crazy prices for new models, as that’s the only way manufacturers will bring their prices down, but maybe that’s just deluded optimism on my part 🤷🏻♂️
No plans to replace my '00 Bianchi.
Bikes were once sporty to look at, now nerdy.
My favorite bike to ride is from 1976. It has 700x35c tires, friction shifting, and bull horn handlebars. I lost interest in new bikes after working at a bike shop for 2 years.
The 2014 paintjob was hideous, though.
It’s utterly ridiculous that they don’t still offer rim brakes on higher end bikes. It puts me off investing cash in a new stock bike. I may as well buy a second hand, mint condition Colnago C65 with Dura Ace 11 spd Di2 and save myself £6000 +. The bike industry has the same problem the guitar industry has: their older gear is so good they’re competing against themselves. This explains why they thrust new tech, which is often arbitrary and pointless, on to the masses. If they make it the new standard, without options, they in effect downgrade the older bikes. It’s very clever but cynical marketing.
That’s kind of the purpose of a “higher end” bike. Disc brakes are better for performance and it’s also harder to find high end carbon wheel sets that are compatible with rim brakes. There’s some great bikes with rim brakes (I have a caad-12)
The two technologies have quite different frame requirements, with disc brakes needing beefed up forks and the mounting points being different, so I'm not surprised they don't offer both in the same model.
As numerous posts have stated, already , the minute gains , in theory, in aero , shifting , disc and larger tires with modern bikes simply don't justify the MASSIVE difference in pricing and specifications compared to similar bikes from 10 + years ago.
Cycling is the ULTIMATE sport of Pro / Con deliberations.
Sure , disc brakes may provide a PRO choice in very slight advantage in certain circumstances, yet , a NEGATIVE in others.
Just like mechanical vs electronic
The debates are endless.
What is relevant, especially for a dedicated Road Bike , are the SUPERB performance, comfort and handling performances of high end Road bikes from 2000 's to 2018 per disc era.
99% of cyclists needs are more then adequately met with these bikes.
Over the last few years , I have been buying / selling AMAZING bikes and components from that era for a fraction of their Orginal price. I only source either " NOS " or lightly used examples.
They are also way less expensive than a current GEN bike and better spec'd as well.
www.pezcyclingnews.com " Readers RIGS " , recently featured an article on some of my bikes that fit this template .
" The ULTIMATE ALTERNATIVE "
Please share your experiences here
Yep, every few years they need to reinvent the wheel so they can make the old tech obsolete and force people onto the new tech if they want to upgrade. 9sp then 10,11,now 12sp. Oh no you can't have a 2x system! What you need is a 1x 13sp 10x50 cassette with a 40? on the front for the "aero gains". Honest! Bikes are just a couple of triangles joined together with a couple of circles underneath. Once you get close to "peak bike" you need to keep inventing things so marginal they hardly matter unless you're in the World Tour, and re-arranging things to keep things "new" and interesting.
I would never want a disc break on any of my bikes to be completely honest.
I know how they work, even had to take them apart many years ago on school.
But still, never ever have my rim breaks snapped on a mountain bike or race bike.
However multiple have on old city bikes but that is because of no maintenance and water getting into the lines.
While disc breaks may be lower in maintenance, it does not hold up because if you leave your bike outside in the rain every night.
Rust will get into the lines and your lines will snap at some point...
Not only that, the most important part are easily replaceable and how cheap it is.
I can replace the blocks for only €5.99 while a replacement off one disc break puts me back €300 at the cheapest.
There is no competition because the users, the bikers themself have already voted, rim breaks it is.
It is just that people who never drive a bike are trying to sell us something heavily overpriced, as always.
I wouldn't call a bike beautiful, it works, gets the job done, it doesn't get ugly if you see cables.
It is just that we stepped one step forward just to fall of the stairs, and here we are uglier as ever.
I would like it if companies had 3 areo watt gains speeds 30kph, some where a lot of us mere mortals can aspire or at least relate to over a 50km ride, 37kph which is pretty quick, and perhaps 42kph which is the average speed roughly of a grand tour stage.
I understand why they don't do this, because the equation to take 15 watts at 45kph to fit 30kmp, for example, will show the watt saving to be tiny.
P.S if you look across strava a very small percentage of the rides over 50km with at least 400 meters of elevation gain have an average speed over 30kph.
Cant wait to see these on FB marketplace in 2032 for £700
Some of the technological developments are welcome (aero, 28mm tires, larger cassettes). Much of it is just worse (disc only, internal cables, 20lbs+ bikes). The bottom line is that 10 years ago, a mid-range road bike cost $3500 CDN, and now it's $6500 CDN. Cycling is just less accessible than it was.
I really thought they were gonna have both bikes and ride them side by side.
Surely any of us could have just looked at the spec sheet for both of them ...
Rim brakes forever!
Back in 89 i coud get a hand built 753, frame with full durace gropset and good wheelset for £3000 ,
sram red 22 was the best groupset I ever had.
At my age, power output (and not forgetting my arthritic right knee), weight is far more important than aero. What is this 45kph they quote, anyway?
Remember, our economic system is an optimization model. Optimization can only be applied to a single variable you cannot optimize a bike for weight and cost. Ultimately one of those factors has to take precedence. Our economic system optimizes profit, and profit alone. If better products or services improve profits then the system will encourage those choices. But if micro transaction, cut corners, proprietary and unserviceable parts generate more profit then that’s what you’ll get. Because the company that maximizes profit can crush and ultimately eliminate another company that might try to maximize product quality. Thats how the system works
How bizarre that Cannondale are speccing the SuperSix Eco with wheels optimized for 25mm tires when the industry and even the WorldTour is riding 28 or 30mm as "standard".
only improvement is the bottom brackets.
I reckon those Ksyriums were 15c...
Bought the 2024 Specialized Creo 2 Expert recently … best bike I have ever owned and I’ve been cycling since the early 1960’s as a child.
The black one is a 2018 model 😅
The new bike is amazing! I love mine! Btw those are the r-sl 50. The sl 50 is a lower spec. I've also upgraded the bar/stem to the MOMO Design Systembar R-one & the cassette to a 11-34 for some climbing ease.
Even 30 years old bicycle works super well in case of proper maintenance service have been done, despite there would be many downsides such as narrower choice of tyre width, compatible components(1 inch headset fork, handlebar diameter), and available mechanic masters who can fix the old bike properly.
Gimmicks to increase profit?
My 2015 Synapse has discs. Only one more year until that’s an old trick I guess.
There's lot of misinformation in this vid. I have 2014 BMC and the frame didn't change a lot so it's obvious that Cannondale was way outdated back than. My bike is factory set up with 52/36 and 11-28 11 speed Ultegra. Extra sprocket give you easier gear rather than closer gear ratios. Also the 2014 Super Six Evo won't be anywhere close to 7kg, maximum would be 6.5kg with those wheels. Anyway disc brakes allow heavy riders like me to have nice deep section carbon wheels which wouldn't stop me on rim brakes. I'm not riding enough to justify new bike so have to keep riding on alloy rims...
New bikes suck. The carbon frames are paper thin, disc brakes are shit to work on, the integrated cables are a nightmare. You can buy a race quality rim brake bike for $500-$700, and you can actually wrench it yourself 😂
3.799 for the range topping Sram Red 22 model…. okay no deep carbon rims but other then that…
Pog is still winning the tour on a 2014 rim brake bike, he’ll he would prob be faster….. the only thing that is actually faster are wheels and tires both of which can be updated, rim brake frames are faster lighter and more aero period
All pretty spot on, till price came up. Don't shy away from the truth because the industry won't like it. It's why they're in bind right now..
The only reason we need disc brakes is to run wider tubeless tires.
Modern bikes are like modern music.
Disc Brakes are have more bite but you can’t use it because you still have the same small patch of rubber on the road…… faster braking is juist a lie. Why do you think the want you to go with bigger tires….
Except disk brakes allow big tyres at lower pressure, so more rubber on the road both for braking & cornering + more comfort.
@@jonbroome9049 it’s the frames and not the rim brakes that make you can’t put bigger tires on. The rimbrake callipers fit a 28 and maybe bigger.
I would add that Campagnolo used in the past differentiated rim brakes to avoid blocking the rear wheels.. So rim brakes are not less powerful. Especially with ceramic rim coating.
You are underestimating the advantage in leverage that hydraulic actuation offers.
Stopping an object is about overcoming force and momentum.
The only way to do so is applying energy to the overall system. Touch a disc rotor after a 10 mile descent. A rim brake applies ALL of that energy (heat) directly to the rim and tires. The ideal gas law dictates that heat translates to increased pressure.
It's why tandems ran rear drums as a drag brake WAY BACK in the 90's. The tires would literally explode because the rims got hot and tire pressure ballooned from 90 psi to 150+
They didn't. Thanks to the UCI. The lack of fairings is ridiculous. Think about it for a bit. Especially travel bikes could benefit a ton
Coming up: Bikes without cyclists, riding fully automated with AI.
How bad can the research on a video be?
Cycling Weekly "Holy my beer"
This is an odd topic. The buyer of the new example here likely has someone else maintain it, which … like racers or rich people since whenever, was often the situation.
And yet we’re discussing it as if the more complicated maintenance/batteries etc “matter.” To whom? UA-cam viewers?
I can’t quibble with any of the conclusions here except for the one mentioned at the end: weight vs aerodynamics.
It’s not a wild assumption that added weight harms the rider’s strength. But I fail to see how aerodynamics would ever be even a contributing factor compared to the “problem” of a vastly un-aerodynamic rider being required.
It’s a bit like worrying if a driver should lose 50 lbs when driving a 700hp car while ignoring competence and experience and external factors.
Disc brakes will stop you quicker but they wear out much quicker than rim brakes
Road bikes have been getting heavier because the current narrative is aero>weight. Fine. But, we've seen all this before. Everything is now going to chase lighter weight but be backwards incompatible. It's a never ending spiral.
Well we didnt have much choice they just forced disc brakes on us ive kept my rim brake bikes and get your wheels from Ryan builds wheels in Bristol.
I have discs on my mtb but not on my road bikes. Something satisfying about looking down at a symmetrical front wheel.😅
How much have bikes changed since the introduction of the 'safety bicycle' 140 years ago? Not much beyond incremental improvements. The bicycle is a mature product, like guns, autos and dishwashers, definitely better now, but basically the same machines for the last century or so. Many of today's improvements are no more than fads pushed by bicycle manufacturers in an effort to stand out and improve sales.
You sound like someone who hasn't ridden a modern carbon bicycle with disc brakes 🤔
Bike makers are pricing themselves out of customers.
No thank you on a new bike!
I’ll keep my 2015 Cannondale Evo Hi Mod over the new heavier, more expensive, and harder to work on 2024 bike.🚴🏻♂️