There are lots of important bike concepts in this video, I hope you learnt something today! 🏆 For more knowledge, check out my Bikepacking Bike Buyer's Guide: www.cyclingabout.com/bikepacking-bike-buyers-guide/
I'm not a pro rider and I only do about 100 miles a week. I ride on paved roads with a lot of imperfections 90% of the time and only infrequently go on trails. I'm not in the first flush of youth and I needed a low maintenance bike that can accommodate my riding terrain which also happens to be quite hilly. The Priority gemini ticked everything. Low maintenance, very wide gear range, on and off road capable, comfortable geometry for ultra as well as short urban rides. Just ordered it on backorder - Can't wait.
I'm definitely a gravel bike man but it seems we are going in the direction of dissolving the distinction between gravel bikes and hardtail XC bikes. And I think gravel bikes should stay something in between the road and full terrain - something like the bike version of a crossover or SUV. For me, a gravel bike (and this is purely personal) is still a type of bike that feels better on the road but is capable of taking us in some more rough terrain if we need to. But the real off-road tracks should stay reserved for MTB. Drop handlebars might be not enough to keep the distinction. More 'road-like' geometry may be the key feature here.
That's exactly the same for me. Many people don't know this fully yet or still and want to do exclusively off-road with them. Those people certainly are better served with a mtb (ideally a Dropbar-MTB) or some of the more progressive Gravelbikes with good tire clearance (50 mm plus) and ideally also suspension in some way or shape.
I agree with all you said. Fortunately enough, the current Geo's of gravel bikes differ to all current XC bikes. If u ask a good bike fitter, they'll tell you that there're similarities but will never be the same. As fitting a gravel bike is a lot different than fitting an XC bike, tbh. Example being that my gravel bike fits more like an Endurance bike and not even close to my XC bike. Edit: I wish that this fact would stay the same to provide distinction.
I think the main problem is in calling all of these bikes "Gravel Bikes". I think the industry needs to better describe the bikes they create as gravel adventure (fat tires, off road preference, suspension) and gravel race/road (not as fat tires, on road preference/dirt road, no suspension, lighter weight). This would probably help alleviate a lot of this confusion between what some people think gravel is or isn't.
@@mrspencermon, perhaps you are right. Some brands kinda do it. Like the Canyon's Girzl and Grail. But I have to admit I rather think we have already too much over-splitting. Maybe not so much in the 'road world' but definitely in the 'MTB world'. Don't take me wrong - it is good to have a choice but when this choice becomes too broad and at the same time theoretically different options highly overlap with each other, this may work quite confusing for some people. This definitely works that way for me.
Yeah because you could comfortably use them on roads as well. My 10yo mtb a 3x10 crank with up to 40T. The same bike now has a 1x12 30T. Mtb just have gotten more specialized
Absolutely, it's all about marketing and convincing the sheeple that their current bikes are not suitable, antiquated, and not trendy. Most of this gravel bike trend is just complete nonsense.
@@markc1844 Agree, it's like, lets sell specialized bikes made for competition to the casual riders that don't need them, because we are not producing bikes that are allrounders for recreational riders. - new derailluer - just make frame that can accommodate 2x10 and it will be fine for 90% of people. Older bikes could. - new tyre size - just make frame that can accommodate them. Older frames could. - new suspension - just use fork with locking mechanism. I am happy that in my country there is one small, local bike manufacturer that makes mountain bikes that are built in the way that they can be configured for many types of riding and have many features like rack mounts ect. are cheap and have very good quality. It is insane when on every YT bike channel I hear that to ride 50+ km you need special high quality shorts with padding to not have sore butt after the ride, so you have to spend 50$ for sadle and next 50$ for riding shorts because they made hard sadle with not enough cushion, on my old bikes sadle I could easily do 100km a day in normal shorts without any butt soreness.
@@markc1844 Haha you are right. The names kept changing for marketing purposes. Just like a fake white sand of Boracay island in Philippines. What's next on Gravel Bike after MTB perhaps Concrete Bike, Asphalt Bike, Uncemented Bike, Sand Bike, Tarmac Bike, Pebbles Bike, Potholes' Bike, Mud Bike, Clay Bike, Landslide Bike, Boulder Bike, Rocky Bike, All-Weather Bike, Etcetera Bike.
Can't wait for them to get back to the Bianchi Cross-Terrain bikes of 1990 -- 2x and 3x, 700x50, Max tubing. They have practically come full circle, again.
The videos of your channel are always packed with tons of valuable infos. It may be the only channel, where I often rewind to make sure to capture every word. I‘m planning to replace my 16 yrs old Stevens Trekking bike next season with either a Rohloff or Pinion Smart Shift touring bike and I found your buyer‘s guide valuable narrowing down candidate bikes. Living close to Idworxx‘s factory it was one of my favs… until I realized how crazy $$$ expensive it is.
In the early 2000s, road bikes were still somewhat expensive in China, while MTBs remained the most popular choice. Some cyclists opted to upgrade their MTBs to enhance speed-replacing larger chainrings, fitting narrower tires, and even installing drop bars. Interestingly, the concept of gravel bikes did not yet exist during that time. We call these modified bikes as ‘Shan’ma’ (山马), which combines elements of both mountain(山) and road cycling（马路）. Nowadays, a similar trend persists: we modify gravel bikes back to MTBs, make to tackle rough terrains with ease.
There are two gravel bike setups that are relevant for my riding. A setup that allows fairly fast street riding and then some gravel and LIGHT trail added in. And then another drop bar gravel setup that is more conducive to rougher road and trail bikepacking. And it seems that bar choice and tire size on the same frame will satisfy both of these needs for me. Adding Redshift suspension stem and seatpost to this same frame has made this setup cover just about everything.
Yeah as long as your bike has a good geo, a gravel bike can cover just about anything except true downhill. Bikes like Salsa Stormchaser, Sklar Supersomething, and the like have what I think is the sweet spot. Around 70deg HTA. 425-435mm chainstays. Just need a couple wheelsets and you can hit anything with just a couple min of swap.
@@cjohnson3836I'm looking for such a bike currently. I want carbon frame for stiffness when pedaling uphill etc. Focus Atlas seems interesting with it's 425mm chainstays but high tyre clearance, but I'm afraid this kind of bike is more suited to adventure riding. You're suggesting that 70° HA is optimal? I would assume it will feel sluggish on tarmac or on some technical stuff
@@dpstrial fot rough gravel roads nearby I think I need 45mm tyres. What do you think about KTM X-Strada Elite geometry, in size M likely? It has very long reach and wheelbase, but rather steep 72° HA and also chainstays are rather long at 430mm while accepting up to 45mm tires (eg. Orbea Terra also accepts up to 45mm tyres but has 420mm chainstays, so I don't understand why KTM made them sightly longer, guess 1cm is s difference many people can feel). I have rather short standover so legs probably as well for my height, so such longer bike might fit me better. Even size S is much longer than other bikes, but S is only sightly shorter but with even lower stack so I think that would be too aggressive for me, I'd rather have less spacers on the steer, not sure if I'd ever get flexible enough to need S sizes low stack hmm...
@@OYeahan A steep head angle is common on road and gravel bikes. It increases pedalling efficiency. On mountain bikes a slack head angle helps the bikes overcome obstacles better. Gravel bikes typically have longer wheelbases than road bikes and this makes for a more comfortable ride. My CX bike puts me in a more aggressive position, but is less comfortable and more twitchy than a gravel bike. 45mm tyres are certainly going to give you a comfortable ride and will perform better on the more challenging trails. I use 35mm touring tyres for rough UK lanes and fairly tame gravel trails. We are all different; and so to get the right bike for you, you will have to try a selection, if possible. I consulted via email with the online dealer, and he decided what would suit my size (tall with long limbs) and the type of riding I wanted to do.
An old Santa Cruz Superlight with drop bars would be awesome, light, comfortable and tracks brilliantly. But I suppose it all depends on the type of gravel, this video showed hard, dry compacted gravel, we know it's not always this smooth and sunny, unless it's made in California.
@@budenskarinderia In europe in deed, at least the part of europe where i live. About 9 out of 10 bikers i see in the forest have enduro style machines, same goes for bike shops. XC is a diminishing segment while gravel & enduro is increasing in popularity.
Why is everyone so sensitive about how you call a bike and what niche should not be covered? Isn't it great that we get more options and variants and you can get exactly what you want? Of course there is some overlap - so what? Most (stock) XC hardtails are fairly different from gravel bikes, even those with a sus fork. Most are not made for riding fast on flatter terrain (and i don't mean xc-fast, but roadie-fast) but gear much more towarda more rough and more uphill. I love my XC (fully), but it is just a different experience compared to riding my gravel bike. On a side note: modern gravel frame geometry is nothing like 90ies MTB, repeating that statement doesn't make it true.
Yeah, no sh*t … Gravel bikes are not built for XC courses or enduro courses. No one is arguing that gravel bikes are the better option for single track or even downhill. A gravel bike than „destroys“ an XC on any kind of fire road or … well … „gravel“ roads :D No one says that gravel bikes are better for mountain biking. But there are better for going fast on gravel-style surfaces, where XCs are just getting to sluggish and also not really comfortable for longer distances. It is a different purpose. More like a road bike that can take a bit more rough stuff. I don‘t want a hardtail for long distance, fast gravel style rides.
Don’t know about most people but I have 1 bike and will likely always only have one bike. I got a gravel bike 3 years ago that was way closer to road than MTB and it suits me really well. Since then gravel bikes have just moved more and more towards MTB. There is a gap now between road and “gravel” I honestly don’t know what I would buy now.
Those gravel bikes that are close to road bikes are very much like endurance road bikes (that have been getting wider tire tolerances lately). Perhaps your next bike will be one of those endurance road bikes. Just install some wider tires (32-40mm) and enjoy?
This one is close to home. My custom steel gravel bike is one year old now, has a 30t 1x setup with 10-50 rear on 650b; plenty of low gear fun. I don't need the aspirational high gears, I can spin up to 25mph just fine, anything above that I should be coasting anyways. Add in tire clearance for 55mm f/r, and a Lauf suspension fork, and seems I have just about all the points made. and there are times I wish it had a Pinion instead of AXS. ah well.
My current gravel bike is a 1x carbon. Low weight - it gets up hills well. And legs adapt. Good VO2 max training which is healthy and fun (I like high intensity workouts, a buzz).. Low maintenance, 1x and SRAM 1 to 1 shift ratio , full outer, keeps working in mud no tuning, lasts ages before need to touch. And only one cable. I also like under biking challenges, keeps my skills sharp. If I fancy a rest or comfort I have my my XC bike handles that, esp with wide upright bars, and it does more besides. If you wanted ONE bike, a gravel bike with 2x or expensive eagle and suspension would be fine. Or just an XC HD!
I have ride w gravel bikes for over 20 years Finally this Summer I decide to get a Hibrid bike and also very happy w my desition Speed & diferent terrains makes it a great investment. Usually I ride long distance. I did couple Centuries w Contis GP 5000s 32's was pretty awesome.
I really don´t get why people think that a single chain ring drive train is a good option for a gravel bike thats supposed to be a kind of do it all bike and especially for that I would choose a double front chainring but I guess everyone has their preferences
Fully agree! I wouldn't want to change my 2x11 GRX (48/31 with a 11-40 cassette), as it indeed lets you ride quite quick on pavement, as also having a great climbing gear when touring fully loaded with luggage in the mountains. This paired with a set of a fast rolling 42mm Pathfinder Pros are perfect for my local rounds and bikepacking trips with about a 70/30 road/offroad split. EDIT: if I would live somewhere remote and only do offroad, then sure, a 1x would be perfect
@@Tethysmeeryeah I guess that´s true but I don´t mind as I´m still used to 3x at the front from those old mountain bikes xD Well I guess you could also argue about slight areodynamic advantages but you also don´t have a front derailleur that could break so that might be an advantage
@@DonnieX6if you like the Pathfinder Pro’s, take a look at the S-Works Pathfinder 2 Bliss 42mm. Lighter, and less rolling resistance, at least according to the website that measures it.
I’ve got a Shimano Alfine gear box on one of my bikes, I really like it but it’s not free from adjustment. As a fairly strong rider, I can push more torque than the gears can deal with, you still have to pick the right time to change gear.
Hybrid (light frames, wider tyres, endurance position, higher bottom bracket) is the way to go for 90% of us. The only weight penalty should be the tyres and the forks. Single speed front gears (40:10-44) may make up for it.
Is there any endurance road or gravel bike with a carbon frame and suitablility for a Carbon belt drive and a Rohloff or Pinion available? For the moment, I'm playing with a touring bike steal frame with a Rohloff, DT Swiss gravel rims, GP5000 32mm road tires and aerobars. Good and confortable, but 13.5 kg and far from agressive...
My salsa cutthroat GX has 34 tooth chain ring and 52 tooth Cassette with 56 mm tires. It’s ahead of its time but there are still occasions when wish it was geared a little lower on steepest sections. Some gravel races have extremely rugged sections! There are also times on asphalt when I wish I had a few gears higher. Overall it’s the best gravel bike for my local gravel chunk in western Pa.
You mention wider clearances for tires. How about 650B? We already had the option to go wider by making the diameter smaller. What is your opinion on this? Thanks for the great video again!
Excellent information. As a teenager in the 70's, I remember changing the tires on my old heavy Schwinn Continental, to a more rugged tread as I routinely took the bike on regular asphalt, tar-gravel and gravel roads with some moderate light trail included. I noticed an increase in efficiency since the old style road tires did not float as well on the gravel which tended to cut deeper into the gravel resulting in increased workload from wheel spin and side slips in turns and ruts. I was still able to hit 40 mph on a steep portion of Spalding Dr in Dunwoody Ga. Finding a bike suitable for a teenager in similar road conditions today could be another interesting article. I think a gravel bike with a couple of different tires would be a great choice. Gearing, suspension and drives I guess would depend on economic and mechanical repair aptitude.
I remember having a mountain bike from the 90s. Hard Tail with front suspension, mountain bike tires. I loved it. I wish they used that same design again. Now mountain bikes are extreme with real shock systems, etc.. I don't want that.
I have a fuji Jari 2.1 I purchased a couple of years ago. The thing has that many braise on fixing points for racks and bags and bottle racks it makes for a great touring bike.
@@romanp2520 no it's doing ok. I haven't had any problems. As a matter of fact I only had the bottom done on a old 90s chro moly MTB last year but that's all
I wish you would type the groupset when you talked about max gradient % from each set. Eg. SRAM vs GRX vs Apex/eagle compared to force /rival. As someone who wants to climb, should I get the base model Apex over the higher caliber Force/Rival set? Or is the deraileurs /groupset different from the drivetrain choices of tooth/cogs on the cassettes?
i ride gravel a lot, and use different tires. 35 mm, 38mm, 40 mm, 42 mm, 45 mm. wider tires seem slower, except when the gravel road is rough, due to the extra rotational mass. big gravel tires are really slow on smooth gravel and especially slow on pavement
I used to ride up a 18% gradient on 42x23 (in my youthful racing days). I don't understand what all the fuss is about, or why healthy adults need gearing for seniors.
4 years ago i bought a Cube gravel bike. Impossibly tall gears 50/34 with 11/32 cassette. New square taper bb and 42/26 with 11/34 transformed the bike
My mid-90s randoneur is clearly outdated. Running 47mm tyres (with fenders) and only got around 22/34 as a low gear so I'm getting into "potentially too slow to ride" territory.
@kurt1391 if you live somewhere that's possible sure. For me gravel sounds like not having to walk if the road gets rough, which is often the case if you try to avoid cars. At least in germany, where our roads made me buy a fully to get around town.
I almost thought it's an april fools special how much gravel is backtracking to old solutions... Now as i'm half through i'm hoping the next segment will be about how flat bars will improve steering 😁
I'm SO glad that people are finally realizing that wider tires are so much better. So tired hunting for a bike, and everything I find maxes out at 40-45mm, and often lower with fenders
I don't understand the whole segment of gravel bikes. I am riding a 1998 GT Zaskar that seems to offer everything which is described here. Wide tyres, great gear ratio, low weight, front suspension, comfortable bar ... what would be an advantage of a Gravel bike here?
Since you are a bicycle travel channel, I sometimes miss a reflection of repairability in your videos. Is it really the best idea to take the latest tech - maybe a pinion gear box with electronic shifting and some fancy suspension - around the world or is it in some cases better to just have a rigid steel mtb, that you can most likely repair everywhere? I like that I am capable of understanding and repairing my bike everywhere and I think this is a dimension that needs reflection if you are seriously travelling and not only doing fancy overnighters in europe or america
Talking about suspension, curious if you had any vibration data regarding Specialized's future shock? Understand a suspension fork is superior but just curious to know how suspension stems compare.
Got to say what a refreshing video this is on UA-cam. Dispelling all the myths with actual logic and backed up with science, succinct and not here to pander to the UA-cam masses (which often feel like a horde of retro grouch cyclists with tall poppy syndrome - anything but rim brakes and 26" wheels from the 90s is considered scary and conspiracy from big bike).
@@RaymondDamm I have the same feeling when I hopped on a mate's canti brakes the other day. Somehow acceptable to have brakes that were only designed to slow you down and not actually stop you...
Didn’t know 26” mtbs form the 90’s still had fans, but I’m glad to hear it! I ride my local trails on a rigid old mtb - it’s pretty gentle terrain and a full suspension bike is overkill to the point of making it boringly easy. You don’t need to live in the Rockies to enjoy off-road riding, but you can easily be over biked imo
I’ve always been a bit wary of the trend for tiny front chainrings. I understand why they have gone that way - better ground clearance, weight saving and not having a granny gear the size of a dinner plate, but the downside is greater stress on the chain/belt and sprockets. A smaller chainring means greater leverage is applied, which means a greater force is being applied at the chainring teeth (of which there are fewer). This in turn puts more stress on the chain/belt, which means the correspondingly smaller rear sprocket is under greater stress turning the back wheel. This might be acceptable for weekend warriors on MTBs, but multi-day bikepacking/expedition rides require a very robust transmission. I’d be happy to sacrifice a bit of ground clearance and take a small weight penalty to have a more durable drive train.
The Lauf fork has quite an advantage over a suspension fork; it's half the weight (400g versus 800g), zero maintenance (as opposed to regular maintenance on hydraulics), are MORE aerodynamic than a regular fork (5w apparently) as apposed to a penalty on hydraulic suspension forks, plus it is proghessive damping (due to the spring design) and has zero lag like a hydraulic fork. Yes, I did my homework, that's why I have one! Leaf springs are a no brainer on gravel bikes
Great video! Gravel bike does not need 1. Suspension fork 2. seat post suspension. It does need a bigger Chainring preferably 2x for racing. Pros actually prefers bigger chainring
If you are competing then obviously efficiency is very important, for the rest of us, who don’t keep our gears & chains spotlessly clean we are probably no worse off. I wouldn’t swap back to a chain & gears from my belt drive but then I don’t compete or climb very steep gradients. I admit a lower gear (Alfine 8) would be nice to save some effort but losing a few kilos would probably be more effective. The pinion gearbox looks interesting & should offer lower gearing as the problem with torque is handled by the gearbox & not the rear hub & again, losing a couple of kilos would compensate for the weight increase & unsprung weight should also be lower.
Great video , thx. Lower gears, wider tires, suspension forks. How are gravel bikes getting better in 2025? They are becoming hardtail X-C bikes which have had all those attributes for over a decade.
Like so much in the bike world, things evolve in spirals, at first diverging, encountering limitations, then revisiting what was but somewhat differently ie the bike packing movement with the move away from racks and panniers to soft bags and straps, found there was not enough volume, too much wagging of seat bags and then a move back to racks (now carbon and about 2-3xs as expensive as the previous metal ones) and bags that sort of look like panniers but apparently aren't panniers. The one thing the bike industry is not, is static. A bored consumer is no longer a consumer. Still, I find the innovations in gearing and belt drives to be exciting. signed, Hopeless Consumer.
Can you feel the increased resistance of a Pinion gearbox when pedaling uphill or at any other speed? I have ridden some Nexus hubs (on public bikeshare) and some feel almost the same as a derailleur, while others feel like there's a small coffee grinder in the hub. With a belt and a different gearing system, I wonder if Pinion is smoother than Nexus.
Great and very reasonable outlook. So excited about the near future of this bike category. Wider tyres (tubeless) and a Rudy Ultimate suspension fork, that’s what I am looking for at my next gravel bike. I miss the fun I had with a Stigmata equipped with 650B wheels and 2“ tyres. It was so forgiving, felt playful in any terrain and was fast too.
As of June 2024, another great option offered by Shimano is CUES. It is a low cost, low gearing groupset which has a very large gear ratio (over 600%, I believe) and the simplicity of mechanical systems. It has a small crankset and I think it will make inroads into the lower cost adventure and gravel bikes, where GRX 600 is currently being used. Not the lightest, but then again, you're loading up a an exploration bike anyways. I think it is a great option for those contemplating a first adventure bike.
A lot of those bikes are darn close to XC hardtails with drop bars. Fluidity in bike categories is a GOOD thing, IMO. It's just funny to hear 'gravel bikes are getting better' when they really just get more similar to bikes designed for offroad / mountain use.
I can attest that the latest gravelbike i build a couple of weeks ago comes with most the mentionned improvements compared to it's 2023 version. Tyres went from 38m to 45mm standard. While the brand says max 45mm. They also said max 38 on the previous model (where people just used 42mm's in general) Looking at the clearance 50mm should be fine. This is with the same Q-factor and possible 2-by set-up as it's predecessor due to the dropped chainstay. Also cables now next to the headset. Really well done. It's actually pretty easy to replace the line. As 1 came with a faulty one out of the box. I had to replace it myself as i order straight from importer. The downside you have to drop out the fork. so it's a bit more work. But very easily accesible and decent achieveable curves. While the cheaper versions still have sub optimal gearing options. Like the one's in my fleet. The more expensive versions come's with 1 by with huge MTB casettes. Here the max gradients is 12% but only for a very short time. Prolonged up to 8% for 80m of elevation change. The traditional gearing is fine here. It has a carbon fork though. But the manufacturer change the frame to accomodate one if you'd want. Maybe later they will add it in new trims. Basically what the video mentions at 9:10. I don't like the gearbox or rear hub options. Yes they're low maintenance. But if you do that to save money. Just get a GRX 400 drivetrain. Those chains and casettes cost pennies you will never recoup those expensive gearboxes and rohloff hubs.
Dig your channel. Idk if you reply to questions? My only bike , currently, is my ‘85 Stumpjumper. You share so much helpful information… If my ‘’85 Stumpy was your only option for your gravel bike, what would be your ideal drivetrain build out? Thank you. (I’m assuming sticking with 26”s but I suppose if advised w/ extended V brakes 650 B’s or even 29’s might be possible) thanks!!
My SRAM 1x drive train has a 44 in front and a 52 in back. It's called 'mullet' because is has a mountain bike rear cassette derailleur and drop bar shifters. I have had this bike for a couple of years, so this is not new. My Moots Routt 45 can handle 50mm tires, and Moots has just announced a Routt ESC gravel bike that can handle 2.5" (63.5mm) wide tires. It should be able to go just about anywhere.
pinion can handle max input torque of 250Nm before it starts slipping. 250Nm of momentary torque on a technical trial is definitely within reach of a strong rider. i use this stuff on my commuter bike and when i have to go fast from a standstill, on a high gear, they it sometimes does 'slip'. on top of reduced efficiency you also get a bit of a 'squishy' feeling under the feet - it's not as direct as a chain drive. all fine for me on my commuter bike, but i dont think i'd like it on a sporty recreational bike.
The XC bike perfected, with the comfort and riding posture of the roadbike. Beautiful. It's a bike that can do anything. I love my 25mm tyres, but i'd be lying if I said I didn't want a gravel bike.
My 3x10 currently has not only 573%, as shown in the video, but 764% range: 42-32-24t / 11-48t For more ground clearance the 42t can be replaced by a 32t sized bash guard: 582% range, going 2x10. It's a shame, what's going on with front derailleurs at the moment…
The Trek District was such a great model that I found too late to actually get my hands on. Belt drive with rear gearbox and front dynamo hub, plus fenders and cargo rack? Commuter perfection. Now if they came out with an electric version I might just cream myself.
I would love to see you cover recumbents. I am trying to find a front-wheel-drive recumbent (like the Cruzbike S40) with a Rohloff and belt drive. That would be a super low maintenance, all weather, with great aerodynamics touring bike. (Not for the crazy stuff you ride over, but for pavement and dirt/gravel roads.) You could put all your touring kit behind your body and seat in an aerodynamic shape. I want to cross the US from coast to coast on such a bike next year when I turn 70. Any ideas or helpful information?
regarding the fork : well, here we are back with MTB's, can't wait for maintenance on it regarding the gearbox belt : introducing belt generalization and gearbox, supposely to be more reliable (which I don't doubt but if you need maintenance on it, that won't be the same price than a derailleur). I chose a gravel for it's simplicity : now in this era, we are speaking of adding electronics, batteries (for shifting), gearbox and forks. I'll stick with my cables and my dumb derailleur to adjust...
My Schwinn Paramount mountain bike has a 3x9, Deore groupset, takes wide tires, and rack mounts for touring. . I have a Titanium road bike, and thinking of a new Lynsky titanium gravel. I like the new geometry and bigger head tube for stability, disc. Etc.
My Gravelbike is a full-sus XC bike (Specialized Epic Evo) with 700x47 Gravel tires (Specialized Pathfinder Pro). Very fast on pavement and gravel while still being capable on easy to intermediate singletrack. In my opinion, better than a Gravelbike. Dylan Johnson, the Pro Gravel Racer, uses a hardtail XC bike in Gravel races and finishes in the top 20.
And the good thing is: you can go even faster since you have room for way bigger and at the same time faster rolling tires. Check out the gains you can get over the Pathfinders with the likes of Conti RaceKing Protection or Schwalbe Thunderburt. :)
How is the shifting with the Wolf Tooth RoadLink ? I also have the R7000. I'm hoping to fit the 11-40 without the Road Link (some people seem to have done it). I'll have to buy it if it doesn't work without.
The biggest problem with gravel bike trend is that we either have to buy heavy suspension, or rigid. Why there aren't any specialized affordable gravel suspensions that are light? Lauf Fork did that but the fork costs as much as a bike. A 4cm travel gravel dampener could be implemented inside the frame where fork gets in. A French company was doing that, but that's also overpriced like Lauf. edit: thanks, 6:12 that was what I was looking for!
The reason why it's evolving because of comfort. Gravel bikes are fast! My only complaint are the vibration and sketchy downhill. I fixed them with suspension forks and dropper post. I can be fast wherever I want. Based on the comments most never really went for a gravel ride. Maybe a 20km ride and called it a day 😂
Thank you, great as always. Q: Will those emerging suspension forks still allow (my preferred) classic touring configuration with a low rider rack on the front fork for a pair of old-fashioned panniers? Greetings, an old touring/trail biker
I have a trek domane, and I put 38 tires on and have been gravel biking. It's doable, but reallly bumpy causing fatigue, and bad gearing hurting my knees, so thinking of upgrading to a proper gravel bike in the spring. debating about suspension, sounds like larger tires will help with that too.
I would keep the Domane for road only rides and gravel bike for 70% off road rides. If some of your gravel rides makes you sketch out then I would go for suspension fork but if you're OK with it then suspension stems are great for vibration.
I fitted a cheap suspension fork to my tourer and perceived reduced rolling resistance. I believe this is due to reduced "unsprung weight" which has to be pushed upwards over every bump. With suspension, only the fork and wheel is pushed up, not the whole frame and rider -> less resistance. Therefore, the rougher the road, the more benefit from suspension. Downsides were extra weight, a Kg or so, and limitations on front panniers for touring. Fat tyres may be an easier way to go. And cheaper. I can't see a sprung, gearbox gravel bike costing anything affordable for most non-professionals.
Love your videos! Tempted to put a Thunder Burt Super Ground 29x2.1 on my Checkpoint SL. However once I put on road wheels, I dont want a wannabe mountain bike. Suspension fork really doesn't fit that use case imo
So now new gravel bikes let you go up a 9% incline. Just today at the end of the ride, with my Mtb, I went up a 17% for about 150m. This was possible because of the 3x10 drivetrain with 36 rings at the back and 24 at the front. I don't need the last gear to keep 10% for kms and I'm no pro. Gravel bikes, with the philosophy of versatility, are only truly useful if they can duplicate 3X10 for climbing and speed. I don't understand the abandonment of multiple chainrings but at least there is hope with the obviously better inhub systems. Excellent quality video.
I agree on that, my road bike has Microshift 2x8 gears, while it has nice top speed, on hills its much easier to go with my old heavy commuter with cheapest 3x7 gears that even not all of them work :D I like how cassetes have evolved, having so many gears with such great ratio of gears, but I still want 3 rings at front :D
@@hrisdev4 Is your un-enjoyment of a 3X a real physical/practical thing or is it a psychological thing? I mean, it only differs from 1x or 2x by very simple clicks. Yet it's so practical with the closest difference available between gears in derailleur systems, allowing going up the steepest hills and still pedaling at 55km/h. Is its appearance that horrible, its extra weight so significant or is it just social pressure that drives someone to accept 2x and not 3x?
A typical cheap 1x Shimano Deore 12 speed with 10-51T cassette and 32 front covers your 3x10, has no FD, no FD shifter, no FD cable, and weights much much less. You can put 36T front if need more speed, and still will keep 99.9% of your 24/36. Personally, I will never go to the annoyance of a steel triple crank unless it is an old city bike I don't mind to be stolen.
@cyclingabout you have mentioned gravel bike getting suspension. Cannondale has introduced the slate with mtb gears and lefty suspension 8 years ago... The topstone even introduced a back sus. The future of gravel is more like fully suspended e-gravel bikes. Ho no, we have the Cannondale Neo Topstone, a fully suspended e-gravel bikes that is a couple of years old. A detailed review would be great because you excel at that.
I ride gravel and MTB, y compare them? I never have the control and feeling for my front tyre on the gravel as on the MTB. It's like comparing a twin cylinder rally honda with a Motocross husquarna
There is a Database on the webs that contains rolling resistance measurements of bike tires. You generally can say that good rolling tires have a efficient casing ergo a low rolling resistance.
I’ve had motorcycles with belt drives and they’re great as they need no maintenance. However they have one major drawback and that is grit, stones and general debris can seriously damage the belt and the sprockets and that’s why you’ll never see them used on any form of off road motorcycle. I doubt they’ll be durable enough for use on a gravel bike.
I think Gravelbikes will be made in more categories and not just Gravelbike. Like Road has Aero, Climbing and Endurance, or MTB has Cross Country, Trail, Downhill and Enduro, Gravelbikes could be made in categories like touring (the basic Gravelbike of today), xtra offroad (with suspension and MTB tires) and race (no mounting points, made for speed). Many already have this, like the Canyon Grail would be a race Gravelbike and the Canyon Grizzl is for touring, bike packing, commuting and so.
I guess it depends on the kind of road / path you have available in your region. As you said gravel bike is made for back road network away from the big majority of car traffic. That said where I live, that network is at least still 80% road (albeit not that smooth) and the gravel part is mostly hard packed dirt/gravel so pretty fast rolling anyway. So for my used case (and frankly, most of the european cyclist one), the perfect gravel bike is close to en endurance road bike, with a slightly longer wheelbase, no suspension, and 35 to 45mm tires depending on the thread pattern, the kind of terrain you ride, and the rims you have. If you live in a relatively flat area, narrower handlebars with next to no flare and deeper rims is gonna make more difference to the effort you produc than big tires and suspension. That said, the wider choice of gearing and internal gearbox is a welcome addition to biking in general.
As I get older ( I'm in the 4th quarter😢) i like what is happening, in terms of gravel bikes, but want ( need) an egravel bike with a low power bottom bracket motor (Tq, Zf as examples)with 650b wheels and 60mm tire width and internal gearing (enviolo zas example)
There are lots of important bike concepts in this video, I hope you learnt something today! 🏆 For more knowledge, check out my Bikepacking Bike Buyer's Guide: www.cyclingabout.com/bikepacking-bike-buyers-guide/
I'm not a pro rider and I only do about 100 miles a week. I ride on paved roads with a lot of imperfections 90% of the time and only infrequently go on trails. I'm not in the first flush of youth and I needed a low maintenance bike that can accommodate my riding terrain which also happens to be quite hilly. The Priority gemini ticked everything. Low maintenance, very wide gear range, on and off road capable, comfortable geometry for ultra as well as short urban rides. Just ordered it on backorder - Can't wait.
Bad part about it is that the 2025s are showing up and tire clearance is still too narrow on the majority of them!
I'm definitely a gravel bike man but it seems we are going in the direction of dissolving the distinction between gravel bikes and hardtail XC bikes. And I think gravel bikes should stay something in between the road and full terrain - something like the bike version of a crossover or SUV. For me, a gravel bike (and this is purely personal) is still a type of bike that feels better on the road but is capable of taking us in some more rough terrain if we need to. But the real off-road tracks should stay reserved for MTB. Drop handlebars might be not enough to keep the distinction. More 'road-like' geometry may be the key feature here.
That's exactly the same for me. Many people don't know this fully yet or still and want to do exclusively off-road with them. Those people certainly are better served with a mtb (ideally a Dropbar-MTB) or some of the more progressive Gravelbikes with good tire clearance (50 mm plus) and ideally also suspension in some way or shape.
SO TRUE !!!
I agree with all you said. Fortunately enough, the current Geo's of gravel bikes differ to all current XC bikes. If u ask a good bike fitter, they'll tell you that there're similarities but will never be the same. As fitting a gravel bike is a lot different than fitting an XC bike, tbh. Example being that my gravel bike fits more like an Endurance bike and not even close to my XC bike.
Edit: I wish that this fact would stay the same to provide distinction.
I think the main problem is in calling all of these bikes "Gravel Bikes". I think the industry needs to better describe the bikes they create as gravel adventure (fat tires, off road preference, suspension) and gravel race/road (not as fat tires, on road preference/dirt road, no suspension, lighter weight). This would probably help alleviate a lot of this confusion between what some people think gravel is or isn't.
@@mrspencermon, perhaps you are right. Some brands kinda do it. Like the Canyon's Girzl and Grail. But I have to admit I rather think we have already too much over-splitting. Maybe not so much in the 'road world' but definitely in the 'MTB world'. Don't take me wrong - it is good to have a choice but when this choice becomes too broad and at the same time theoretically different options highly overlap with each other, this may work quite confusing for some people. This definitely works that way for me.
The touring mountain bike I got 20 years ago would now be categorized as a gravel bike. Interesting.
Add more adjective to describe it, Rigid-Dropbar-Rackmounted-Hardtail-Mountain Bike, Sounds enough.
Yeah because you could comfortably use them on roads as well. My 10yo mtb a 3x10 crank with up to 40T. The same bike now has a 1x12 30T. Mtb just have gotten more specialized
Absolutely, it's all about marketing and convincing the sheeple that their current bikes are not suitable, antiquated, and not trendy. Most of this gravel bike trend is just complete nonsense.
@@markc1844 Agree, it's like, lets sell specialized bikes made for competition to the casual riders that don't need them, because we are not producing bikes that are allrounders for recreational riders.
- new derailluer - just make frame that can accommodate 2x10 and it will be fine for 90% of people. Older bikes could.
- new tyre size - just make frame that can accommodate them. Older frames could.
- new suspension - just use fork with locking mechanism.
I am happy that in my country there is one small, local bike manufacturer that makes mountain bikes that are built in the way that they can be configured for many types of riding and have many features like rack mounts ect. are cheap and have very good quality.
It is insane when on every YT bike channel I hear that to ride 50+ km you need special high quality shorts with padding to not have sore butt after the ride, so you have to spend 50$ for sadle and next 50$ for riding shorts because they made hard sadle with not enough cushion, on my old bikes sadle I could easily do 100km a day in normal shorts without any butt soreness.
@@markc1844
Haha you are right. The names kept changing for marketing purposes. Just like a fake white sand of Boracay island in Philippines.
What's next on Gravel Bike after MTB perhaps Concrete Bike, Asphalt Bike, Uncemented Bike, Sand Bike, Tarmac Bike, Pebbles Bike, Potholes' Bike, Mud Bike, Clay Bike, Landslide Bike, Boulder Bike, Rocky Bike, All-Weather Bike, Etcetera Bike.
5 years later, gravel bike will be mtb again.
Can't wait for them to get back to the Bianchi Cross-Terrain bikes of 1990 -- 2x and 3x, 700x50, Max tubing. They have practically come full circle, again.
the silhouette looks like a 90's mtb right?
@@-IE_it_yourself but with dropbars 🙄
Dropbar XC MTB sounds good.
But much more expensive like a regular hardtail 😂
It's also nice to see lower gears on more entry level groupset. I'm so glad to see CUES has a 40/24 crankset
It’s a 40/26
@@thedownunderverse Still better than single 40t on gravel bikes :)
The videos of your channel are always packed with tons of valuable infos. It may be the only channel, where I often rewind to make sure to capture every word.
I‘m planning to replace my 16 yrs old Stevens Trekking bike next season with either a Rohloff or Pinion Smart Shift touring bike and I found your buyer‘s guide valuable narrowing down candidate bikes. Living close to Idworxx‘s factory it was one of my favs… until I realized how crazy $$$ expensive it is.
In the early 2000s, road bikes were still somewhat expensive in China, while MTBs remained the most popular choice. Some cyclists opted to upgrade their MTBs to enhance speed-replacing larger chainrings, fitting narrower tires, and even installing drop bars. Interestingly, the concept of gravel bikes did not yet exist during that time. We call these modified bikes as ‘Shan’ma’ (山马), which combines elements of both mountain(山) and road cycling（马路）. Nowadays, a similar trend persists: we modify gravel bikes back to MTBs, make to tackle rough terrains with ease.
Thats some cheese
Very interesting! My family is from Taiwan. I’ll ask if sane trend is happening there. Happy riding!
There are two gravel bike setups that are relevant for my riding. A setup that allows fairly fast street riding and then some gravel and LIGHT trail added in. And then another drop bar gravel setup that is more conducive to rougher road and trail bikepacking. And it seems that bar choice and tire size on the same frame will satisfy both of these needs for me. Adding Redshift suspension stem and seatpost to this same frame has made this setup cover just about everything.
Yeah as long as your bike has a good geo, a gravel bike can cover just about anything except true downhill. Bikes like Salsa Stormchaser, Sklar Supersomething, and the like have what I think is the sweet spot. Around 70deg HTA. 425-435mm chainstays. Just need a couple wheelsets and you can hit anything with just a couple min of swap.
@@cjohnson3836I'm looking for such a bike currently. I want carbon frame for stiffness when pedaling uphill etc. Focus Atlas seems interesting with it's 425mm chainstays but high tyre clearance, but I'm afraid this kind of bike is more suited to adventure riding. You're suggesting that 70° HA is optimal? I would assume it will feel sluggish on tarmac or on some technical stuff
I have a Lynskey CX bike with 35 mm tyres and a Redshift stem and seatpost, and it's perfect for rough country roads and easy trails.
@@dpstrial fot rough gravel roads nearby I think I need 45mm tyres. What do you think about KTM X-Strada Elite geometry, in size M likely? It has very long reach and wheelbase, but rather steep 72° HA and also chainstays are rather long at 430mm while accepting up to 45mm tires (eg. Orbea Terra also accepts up to 45mm tyres but has 420mm chainstays, so I don't understand why KTM made them sightly longer, guess 1cm is s difference many people can feel). I have rather short standover so legs probably as well for my height, so such longer bike might fit me better. Even size S is much longer than other bikes, but S is only sightly shorter but with even lower stack so I think that would be too aggressive for me, I'd rather have less spacers on the steer, not sure if I'd ever get flexible enough to need S sizes low stack hmm...
@@OYeahan A steep head angle is common on road and gravel bikes. It increases pedalling efficiency. On mountain bikes a slack head angle helps the bikes overcome obstacles better. Gravel bikes typically have longer wheelbases than road bikes and this makes for a more comfortable ride. My CX bike puts me in a more aggressive position, but is less comfortable and more twitchy than a gravel bike.
45mm tyres are certainly going to give you a comfortable ride and will perform better on the more challenging trails. I use 35mm touring tyres for rough UK lanes and fairly tame gravel trails.
We are all different; and so to get the right bike for you, you will have to try a selection, if possible. I consulted via email with the online dealer, and he decided what would suit my size (tall with long limbs) and the type of riding I wanted to do.
Great as always. Thanks! I just bough my first MTB today, and learned a lot from your videos.
I want to assemble myself single speed. But what Frame should i get
Yes! The bike industry is slowly reinventing the HT mtb.
Keeping my HT, I need to look cool in future times.
It is all a reinventing for marketing reason, it is a constant proposal of new things
The future of gravel bike is a 29er, full suspenion XC bike with a dropbar. Seriously.
An old Santa Cruz Superlight with drop bars would be awesome, light, comfortable and tracks brilliantly. But I suppose it all depends on the type of gravel, this video showed hard, dry compacted gravel, we know it's not always this smooth and sunny, unless it's made in California.
MTB of today is mostly enduro oriented while gravel bikes will take over the role of classic XC bikes.
@@danielandersson2146 not in europe or asia
@@budenskarinderia In europe in deed, at least the part of europe where i live. About 9 out of 10 bikers i see in the forest have enduro style machines, same goes for bike shops. XC is a diminishing segment while gravel & enduro is increasing in popularity.
= SLOW
Why is everyone so sensitive about how you call a bike and what niche should not be covered?
Isn't it great that we get more options and variants and you can get exactly what you want? Of course there is some overlap - so what?
Most (stock) XC hardtails are fairly different from gravel bikes, even those with a sus fork. Most are not made for riding fast on flatter terrain (and i don't mean xc-fast, but roadie-fast) but gear much more towarda more rough and more uphill.
I love my XC (fully), but it is just a different experience compared to riding my gravel bike.
On a side note: modern gravel frame geometry is nothing like 90ies MTB, repeating that statement doesn't make it true.
A gravel bike is very very limited off road. An XC bike would destroy a gravel bike on an XC course never mind an enduro course.
Yeah, no sh*t … Gravel bikes are not built for XC courses or enduro courses. No one is arguing that gravel bikes are the better option for single track or even downhill. A gravel bike than „destroys“ an XC on any kind of fire road or … well … „gravel“ roads :D No one says that gravel bikes are better for mountain biking. But there are better for going fast on gravel-style surfaces, where XCs are just getting to sluggish and also not really comfortable for longer distances. It is a different purpose. More like a road bike that can take a bit more rough stuff. I don‘t want a hardtail for long distance, fast gravel style rides.
Gravel bikes with larger tires ,front suspension...how far away from hardtail MTB we are !?
An elbow inflammation due to lack of front suspension far.
20% on price
Don’t know about most people but I have 1 bike and will likely always only have one bike. I got a gravel bike 3 years ago that was way closer to road than MTB and it suits me really well. Since then gravel bikes have just moved more and more towards MTB. There is a gap now between road and “gravel” I honestly don’t know what I would buy now.
Those gravel bikes that are close to road bikes are very much like endurance road bikes (that have been getting wider tire tolerances lately). Perhaps your next bike will be one of those endurance road bikes. Just install some wider tires (32-40mm) and enjoy?
I think Canyons approach is the best for Gravel. Grizzl is what this video talks about, while Grail is what you talk about.
Wow, I'm only in the middle of the video and I already feel like you've covered all the most important things.
As an amateur gravel rider, I've been saying that for years. My first one came with a 50/34 compact....way overgeared for bike packing or off roading
I have something that is very similar to this. it's called a mountain bike.
This one is close to home. My custom steel gravel bike is one year old now, has a 30t 1x setup with 10-50 rear on 650b; plenty of low gear fun. I don't need the aspirational high gears, I can spin up to 25mph just fine, anything above that I should be coasting anyways. Add in tire clearance for 55mm f/r, and a Lauf suspension fork, and seems I have just about all the points made. and there are times I wish it had a Pinion instead of AXS. ah well.
My current gravel bike is a 1x carbon. Low weight - it gets up hills well. And legs adapt. Good VO2 max training which is healthy and fun (I like high intensity workouts, a buzz).. Low maintenance, 1x and SRAM 1 to 1 shift ratio , full outer, keeps working in mud no tuning, lasts ages before need to touch. And only one cable. I also like under biking challenges, keeps my skills sharp. If I fancy a rest or comfort I have my my XC bike handles that, esp with wide upright bars, and it does more besides. If you wanted ONE bike, a gravel bike with 2x or expensive eagle and suspension would be fine. Or just an XC HD!
Which bike?
I have ride w gravel bikes for over 20 years Finally this Summer I decide to get a Hibrid bike and also very happy w my desition Speed & diferent terrains makes it a great investment. Usually I ride long distance. I did couple Centuries w Contis GP 5000s 32's was pretty awesome.
i surfed around the suspension with my Cane Creek eesilk. works like a charm
I really don´t get why people think that a single chain ring drive train is a good option for a gravel bike thats supposed to be a kind of do it all bike and especially for that I would choose a double front chainring but I guess everyone has their preferences
That is surely correct. But 1x is much easier to shift in complex terrain. I have 1x but think a lot about switching to 2x.
Fully agree! I wouldn't want to change my 2x11 GRX (48/31 with a 11-40 cassette), as it indeed lets you ride quite quick on pavement, as also having a great climbing gear when touring fully loaded with luggage in the mountains. This paired with a set of a fast rolling 42mm Pathfinder Pros are perfect for my local rounds and bikepacking trips with about a 70/30 road/offroad split.
EDIT: if I would live somewhere remote and only do offroad, then sure, a 1x would be perfect
@@Tethysmeeryeah I guess that´s true but I don´t mind as I´m still used to 3x at the front from those old mountain bikes xD
Well I guess you could also argue about slight areodynamic advantages but you also don´t have a front derailleur that could break so that might be an advantage
@@DonnieX6if you like the Pathfinder Pro’s, take a look at the S-Works Pathfinder 2 Bliss 42mm. Lighter, and less rolling resistance, at least according to the website that measures it.
How many rear chainrings do you prefer?
I’ve got a Shimano Alfine gear box on one of my bikes, I really like it but it’s not free from adjustment. As a fairly strong rider, I can push more torque than the gears can deal with, you still have to pick the right time to change gear.
Hybrid (light frames, wider tyres, endurance position, higher bottom bracket) is the way to go for 90% of us. The only weight penalty should be the tyres and the forks. Single speed front gears (40:10-44) may make up for it.
Wow, so glad I hung onto my old MTB hardtail! Looks like I'll have a state-of-the-art gravel bike next year
All we need now is flat bars so you can get to the brakes, an extra chainring, lightweight barends and I've finally got my 1990's MTB back 🙌👌💪❤️
Or just a hybrid. They are still popular in Europe, because they are so much cheaper with hardly any downsides.
But without 90s era 26” wheels with 18mm rims, 135mm quick release hubs, v-brakes and a 72° HTA, will it really be the same? 😂
Is there any endurance road or gravel bike with a carbon frame and suitablility for a Carbon belt drive and a Rohloff or Pinion available?
For the moment, I'm playing with a touring bike steal frame with a Rohloff, DT Swiss gravel rims, GP5000 32mm road tires and aerobars. Good and confortable, but 13.5 kg and far from agressive...
My salsa cutthroat GX has 34 tooth chain ring and 52 tooth Cassette with 56 mm tires. It’s ahead of its time but there are still occasions when wish it was geared a little lower on steepest sections. Some gravel races have extremely rugged sections! There are also times on asphalt when I wish I had a few gears higher. Overall it’s the best gravel bike for my local gravel chunk in western Pa.
You mention wider clearances for tires. How about 650B? We already had the option to go wider by making the diameter smaller. What is your opinion on this? Thanks for the great video again!
Excellent information. As a teenager in the 70's, I remember changing the tires on my old heavy Schwinn Continental, to a more rugged tread as I routinely took the bike on regular asphalt, tar-gravel and gravel roads with some moderate light trail included. I noticed an increase in efficiency since the old style road tires did not float as well on the gravel which tended to cut deeper into the gravel resulting in increased workload from wheel spin and side slips in turns and ruts. I was still able to hit 40 mph on a steep portion of Spalding Dr in Dunwoody Ga.
Finding a bike suitable for a teenager in similar road conditions today could be another interesting article. I think a gravel bike with a couple of different tires would be a great choice. Gearing, suspension and drives I guess would depend on economic and mechanical repair aptitude.
I remember having a mountain bike from the 90s. Hard Tail with front suspension, mountain bike tires. I loved it. I wish they used that same design again. Now mountain bikes are extreme with real shock systems, etc.. I don't want that.
You can still buy hard tail mountain bikes with front suspension you know.💁🏼♂️
XC carbon FS are in a different league to the 90s style bikes. Try one.
I have a fuji Jari 2.1 I purchased a couple of years ago. The thing has that many braise on fixing points for racks and bags and bottle racks it makes for a great touring bike.
How's the bottom bracket doing? I heard some bad reports from a mechanic in Seattle
@@romanp2520 no it's doing ok. I haven't had any problems. As a matter of fact I only had the bottom done on a old 90s chro moly MTB last year but that's all
@@romanp2520 my jari's on the other hand is creaking like a bitch, as if frame cracked somewhere inside, despite multiple people's diagnosis efforts
I would have loved your comments and comparaison about the LAUF fork that is a zero maintenance and very light 30mm suspended fork..
I discuss the Lauf in this video: ua-cam.com/video/_0mDvy1Ypew/v-deo.html
I wish you would type the groupset when you talked about max gradient % from each set. Eg. SRAM vs GRX vs Apex/eagle compared to force /rival. As someone who wants to climb, should I get the base model Apex over the higher caliber Force/Rival set? Or is the deraileurs /groupset different from the drivetrain choices of tooth/cogs on the cassettes?
Bought a Giant Toughroad flatbar for steep and rough gravel roads. Waiting for the Shimano 820 groupset to trickle down to the cheaper bikes.
i ride gravel a lot, and use different tires. 35 mm, 38mm, 40 mm, 42 mm, 45 mm. wider tires seem slower, except when the gravel road is rough, due to the extra rotational mass. big gravel tires are really slow on smooth gravel and especially slow on pavement
I used to ride up a 18% gradient on 42x23 (in my youthful racing days). I don't understand what all the fuss is about, or why healthy adults need gearing for seniors.
Awesome video like always! Big fan here, and also fan of Dylan!!
4 years ago i bought a Cube gravel bike. Impossibly tall gears 50/34 with 11/32 cassette. New square taper bb and 42/26 with 11/34 transformed the bike
So in other words... the industry should've left well enough alone and put drop setup's on MTB. A no-brainer, otherwise, exhausting irritability.
My mid-90s randoneur is clearly outdated. Running 47mm tyres (with fenders) and only got around 22/34 as a low gear so I'm getting into "potentially too slow to ride" territory.
Or just don't ride gravel bikes where it's MTB territory. I keep my gravel bike tilted toward the road end.
@kurt1391 if you live somewhere that's possible sure. For me gravel sounds like not having to walk if the road gets rough, which is often the case if you try to avoid cars. At least in germany, where our roads made me buy a fully to get around town.
The distance between gravel bike and xc hardtail with drop bars is getting pretty small.
Uhm??? Just bought the Trek FX 6 sport. Seems "gravel" oriented for sure.
I almost thought it's an april fools special how much gravel is backtracking to old solutions... Now as i'm half through i'm hoping the next segment will be about how flat bars will improve steering 😁
Were you born in 1960?
I'm SO glad that people are finally realizing that wider tires are so much better. So tired hunting for a bike, and everything I find maxes out at 40-45mm, and often lower with fenders
I don't understand the whole segment of gravel bikes. I am riding a 1998 GT Zaskar that seems to offer everything which is described here. Wide tyres, great gear ratio, low weight, front suspension, comfortable bar ... what would be an advantage of a Gravel bike here?
Since you are a bicycle travel channel, I sometimes miss a reflection of repairability in your videos. Is it really the best idea to take the latest tech - maybe a pinion gear box with electronic shifting and some fancy suspension - around the world or is it in some cases better to just have a rigid steel mtb, that you can most likely repair everywhere? I like that I am capable of understanding and repairing my bike everywhere and I think this is a dimension that needs reflection if you are seriously travelling and not only doing fancy overnighters in europe or america
Talking about suspension, curious if you had any vibration data regarding Specialized's future shock? Understand a suspension fork is superior but just curious to know how suspension stems compare.
Got to say what a refreshing video this is on UA-cam. Dispelling all the myths with actual logic and backed up with science, succinct and not here to pander to the UA-cam masses (which often feel like a horde of retro grouch cyclists with tall poppy syndrome - anything but rim brakes and 26" wheels from the 90s is considered scary and conspiracy from big bike).
Rim brakes and 26" wheels from the 90s are scary, I have an old mountain bike and will not ride it on a lot of the trails I will take my Checkpoint on
@@RaymondDamm I have the same feeling when I hopped on a mate's canti brakes the other day. Somehow acceptable to have brakes that were only designed to slow you down and not actually stop you...
Didn’t know 26” mtbs form the 90’s still had fans, but I’m glad to hear it! I ride my local trails on a rigid old mtb - it’s pretty gentle terrain and a full suspension bike is overkill to the point of making it boringly easy. You don’t need to live in the Rockies to enjoy off-road riding, but you can easily be over biked imo
I've been riding my Priority Apollo with a Shimano Alfine 11 for about 2 years now. No maintenance needed!
I’ve always been a bit wary of the trend for tiny front chainrings. I understand why they have gone that way - better ground clearance, weight saving and not having a granny gear the size of a dinner plate, but the downside is greater stress on the chain/belt and sprockets. A smaller chainring means greater leverage is applied, which means a greater force is being applied at the chainring teeth (of which there are fewer). This in turn puts more stress on the chain/belt, which means the correspondingly smaller rear sprocket is under greater stress turning the back wheel. This might be acceptable for weekend warriors on MTBs, but multi-day bikepacking/expedition rides require a very robust transmission. I’d be happy to sacrifice a bit of ground clearance and take a small weight penalty to have a more durable drive train.
It's also worth mentioning the suspension stems. They add comfort, look better than suspension forks and weight less.
But don't seem to work as well based on reviews I've read.
The Lauf fork has quite an advantage over a suspension fork; it's half the weight (400g versus 800g), zero maintenance (as opposed to regular maintenance on hydraulics), are MORE aerodynamic than a regular fork (5w apparently) as apposed to a penalty on hydraulic suspension forks, plus it is proghessive damping (due to the spring design) and has zero lag like a hydraulic fork. Yes, I did my homework, that's why I have one! Leaf springs are a no brainer on gravel bikes
Great video! Gravel bike does not need 1. Suspension fork 2. seat post suspension. It does need a bigger Chainring preferably 2x for racing. Pros actually prefers bigger chainring
The Lauf fork seems to be well-suited for gravel bikes without the maintenance headaches.
It’s just hard to figure out what frames those are compatible with?
If you are competing then obviously efficiency is very important, for the rest of us, who don’t keep our gears & chains spotlessly clean we are probably no worse off. I wouldn’t swap back to a chain & gears from my belt drive but then I don’t compete or climb very steep gradients. I admit a lower gear (Alfine 8) would be nice to save some effort but losing a few kilos would probably be more effective.
The pinion gearbox looks interesting & should offer lower gearing as the problem with torque is handled by the gearbox & not the rear hub & again, losing a couple of kilos would compensate for the weight increase & unsprung weight should also be lower.
Great video , thx. Lower gears, wider tires, suspension forks. How are gravel bikes getting better in 2025? They are becoming hardtail X-C bikes which have had all those attributes for over a decade.
Like so much in the bike world, things evolve in spirals, at first diverging, encountering limitations, then revisiting what was but somewhat differently ie the bike packing movement with the move away from racks and panniers to soft bags and straps, found there was not enough volume, too much wagging of seat bags and then a move back to racks (now carbon and about 2-3xs as expensive as the previous metal ones) and bags that sort of look like panniers but apparently aren't panniers. The one thing the bike industry is not, is static. A bored consumer is no longer a consumer. Still, I find the innovations in gearing and belt drives to be exciting. signed, Hopeless Consumer.
Can you feel the increased resistance of a Pinion gearbox when pedaling uphill or at any other speed? I have ridden some Nexus hubs (on public bikeshare) and some feel almost the same as a derailleur, while others feel like there's a small coffee grinder in the hub. With a belt and a different gearing system, I wonder if Pinion is smoother than Nexus.
Great and very reasonable outlook. So excited about the near future of this bike category.
Wider tyres (tubeless) and a Rudy Ultimate suspension fork, that’s what I am looking for at my next gravel bike.
I miss the fun I had with a Stigmata equipped with 650B wheels and 2“ tyres. It was so forgiving, felt playful in any terrain and was fast too.
Love your work. Very informative, thank you.
As of June 2024, another great option offered by Shimano is CUES. It is a low cost, low gearing groupset which has a very large gear ratio (over 600%, I believe) and the simplicity of mechanical systems. It has a small crankset and I think it will make inroads into the lower cost adventure and gravel bikes, where GRX 600 is currently being used. Not the lightest, but then again, you're loading up a an exploration bike anyways. I think it is a great option for those contemplating a first adventure bike.
Currently, there are no drop bar shifters for Cues. But I'll report on them when they come!
A lot of those bikes are darn close to XC hardtails with drop bars. Fluidity in bike categories is a GOOD thing, IMO. It's just funny to hear 'gravel bikes are getting better' when they really just get more similar to bikes designed for offroad / mountain use.
I can attest that the latest gravelbike i build a couple of weeks ago comes with most the mentionned improvements compared to it's 2023 version.
Tyres went from 38m to 45mm standard. While the brand says max 45mm. They also said max 38 on the previous model (where people just used 42mm's in general)
Looking at the clearance 50mm should be fine. This is with the same Q-factor and possible 2-by set-up as it's predecessor due to the dropped chainstay.
Also cables now next to the headset. Really well done. It's actually pretty easy to replace the line. As 1 came with a faulty one out of the box. I had to replace it myself as i order straight from importer. The downside you have to drop out the fork. so it's a bit more work. But very easily accesible and decent achieveable curves.
While the cheaper versions still have sub optimal gearing options. Like the one's in my fleet.
The more expensive versions come's with 1 by with huge MTB casettes. Here the max gradients is 12% but only for a very short time. Prolonged up to 8% for 80m of elevation change.
The traditional gearing is fine here.
It has a carbon fork though. But the manufacturer change the frame to accomodate one if you'd want. Maybe later they will add it in new trims.
Basically what the video mentions at 9:10.
I don't like the gearbox or rear hub options. Yes they're low maintenance. But if you do that to save money. Just get a GRX 400 drivetrain. Those chains and casettes cost pennies you will never recoup those expensive gearboxes and rohloff hubs.
Dig your channel.
Idk if you reply to questions? My only bike , currently, is my ‘85 Stumpjumper. You share so much helpful information… If my ‘’85 Stumpy was your only option for your gravel bike, what would be your ideal drivetrain build out? Thank you. (I’m assuming sticking with 26”s but I suppose if advised w/ extended V brakes 650 B’s or even 29’s might be possible) thanks!!
My SRAM 1x drive train has a 44 in front and a 52 in back. It's called 'mullet' because is has a mountain bike rear cassette derailleur and drop bar shifters. I have had this bike for a couple of years, so this is not new. My Moots Routt 45 can handle 50mm tires, and Moots has just announced a Routt ESC gravel bike that can handle 2.5" (63.5mm) wide tires. It should be able to go just about anywhere.
Hmm I tried 2 used e-bikes with the enviolo system with belt now and both bikes felt so slow.
Maybe it’s that enviolo system get slower over time?
pinion can handle max input torque of 250Nm before it starts slipping. 250Nm of momentary torque on a technical trial is definitely within reach of a strong rider. i use this stuff on my commuter bike and when i have to go fast from a standstill, on a high gear, they it sometimes does 'slip'. on top of reduced efficiency you also get a bit of a 'squishy' feeling under the feet - it's not as direct as a chain drive. all fine for me on my commuter bike, but i dont think i'd like it on a sporty recreational bike.
The XC bike perfected, with the comfort and riding posture of the roadbike. Beautiful. It's a bike that can do anything. I love my 25mm tyres, but i'd be lying if I said I didn't want a gravel bike.
A fully rigid mountain bike can do more.
Now - which drop bars to fit to my 90's Kona MTB...
My 3x10 currently has not only 573%, as shown in the video, but 764% range: 42-32-24t / 11-48t
For more ground clearance the 42t can be replaced by a 32t sized bash guard: 582% range, going 2x10.
It's a shame, what's going on with front derailleurs at the moment…
💯
You should do a video on the Lauf Fork. Zero maintenance and it improves aerodynamics!
There’s a review up on CYCLINGABOUT.com for you to read. 👍
The Trek District was such a great model that I found too late to actually get my hands on. Belt drive with rear gearbox and front dynamo hub, plus fenders and cargo rack? Commuter perfection. Now if they came out with an electric version I might just cream myself.
I feel that I cannot compromise on a 53/11 ratio for my highest gear.....what is the best climbing gear ratio that I could achieve with that in mind?
I would love to see you cover recumbents. I am trying to find a front-wheel-drive recumbent (like the Cruzbike S40) with a Rohloff and belt drive. That would be a super low maintenance, all weather, with great aerodynamics touring bike. (Not for the crazy stuff you ride over, but for pavement and dirt/gravel roads.) You could put all your touring kit behind your body and seat in an aerodynamic shape. I want to cross the US from coast to coast on such a bike next year when I turn 70. Any ideas or helpful information?
If I want to climb a 12 to 18% grade as a 195 lb rider, what would be the best crank to cassette mix?
I still like 35 or 42 size tires because I mostly commute on pavement with a few power line trails for shorcuts
regarding the fork : well, here we are back with MTB's, can't wait for maintenance on it
regarding the gearbox belt : introducing belt generalization and gearbox, supposely to be more reliable (which I don't doubt but if you need maintenance on it, that won't be the same price than a derailleur).
I chose a gravel for it's simplicity : now in this era, we are speaking of adding electronics, batteries (for shifting), gearbox and forks.
I'll stick with my cables and my dumb derailleur to adjust...
My Schwinn Paramount mountain bike has a 3x9, Deore groupset, takes wide tires, and rack mounts for touring. . I have a Titanium road bike, and thinking of a new Lynsky titanium gravel. I like the new geometry and bigger head tube for stability, disc. Etc.
My Gravelbike is a full-sus XC bike (Specialized Epic Evo) with 700x47 Gravel tires (Specialized Pathfinder Pro). Very fast on pavement and gravel while still being capable on easy to intermediate singletrack. In my opinion, better than a Gravelbike. Dylan Johnson, the Pro Gravel Racer, uses a hardtail XC bike in Gravel races and finishes in the top 20.
Are you using drop or flat handlebars?
@@richeeg3271 Flat but I have them cut very narrow at 25 inches wide.
And the good thing is: you can go even faster since you have room for way bigger and at the same time faster rolling tires. Check out the gains you can get over the Pathfinders with the likes of Conti RaceKing Protection or Schwalbe Thunderburt. :)
When I built up my gravel bike I went flat bar, f*** yeah! It's a blast on my local single track...
@@petayV8One of the best things about flat bars is that you can use Shimano 10-51 or Sram 10-52 1x cassettes.
Keeping my Belgian Ridley cross bike, thank you. It goes practically anywhere pretty fast. Who wants an old MTB with a stupid looking goat bar?
I built my Gravelbike with a 50/34 105 crank and a 42/10 XG cassette. So, plenty of range
What derailleur do you use if I may ask?
@@memerakul2648Shimano 105 FD-R7000 front and GRX RD-RX810 Shadow Plus rear with a Wolf Tooth RoadLink
@@memerakul2648 SRAM XG-1150 cassette
@@imbackinthegame3611 awesome thanks mate!
How is the shifting with the Wolf Tooth RoadLink ? I also have the R7000. I'm hoping to fit the 11-40 without the Road Link (some people seem to have done it). I'll have to buy it if it doesn't work without.
The biggest problem with gravel bike trend is that we either have to buy heavy suspension, or rigid. Why there aren't any specialized affordable gravel suspensions that are light?
Lauf Fork did that but the fork costs as much as a bike.
A 4cm travel gravel dampener could be implemented inside the frame where fork gets in. A French company was doing that, but that's also overpriced like Lauf.
edit: thanks, 6:12 that was what I was looking for!
Great content, thanks for posting!
I plan on purchasing a gravel bike this summer. The information in this video could not have come at a better time.
The reason why it's evolving because of comfort. Gravel bikes are fast! My only complaint are the vibration and sketchy downhill. I fixed them with suspension forks and dropper post. I can be fast wherever I want. Based on the comments most never really went for a gravel ride. Maybe a 20km ride and called it a day 😂
Thank you, great as always.
Q: Will those emerging suspension forks still allow (my preferred) classic touring configuration with a low rider rack on the front fork for a pair of old-fashioned panniers?
Greetings, an old touring/trail biker
I have a trek domane, and I put 38 tires on and have been gravel biking. It's doable, but reallly bumpy causing fatigue, and bad gearing hurting my knees, so thinking of upgrading to a proper gravel bike in the spring. debating about suspension, sounds like larger tires will help with that too.
I would keep the Domane for road only rides and gravel bike for 70% off road rides. If some of your gravel rides makes you sketch out then I would go for suspension fork but if you're OK with it then suspension stems are great for vibration.
@@diegoeleazar9154 already sold it 😆.
Easy solution to hills is to use a Wolf Tooth and appropriately larger cassette with your GRX. Simple and cheap solution. Don't need a new derailleur.
I fitted a cheap suspension fork to my tourer and perceived reduced rolling resistance. I believe this is due to reduced "unsprung weight" which has to be pushed upwards over every bump. With suspension, only the fork and wheel is pushed up, not the whole frame and rider -> less resistance. Therefore, the rougher the road, the more benefit from suspension. Downsides were extra weight, a Kg or so, and limitations on front panniers for touring. Fat tyres may be an easier way to go. And cheaper. I can't see a sprung, gearbox gravel bike costing anything affordable for most non-professionals.
Love your videos! Tempted to put a Thunder Burt Super Ground 29x2.1 on my Checkpoint SL.
However once I put on road wheels, I dont want a wannabe mountain bike. Suspension fork really doesn't fit that use case imo
So now new gravel bikes let you go up a 9% incline. Just today at the end of the ride, with my Mtb, I went up a 17% for about 150m. This was possible because of the 3x10 drivetrain with 36 rings at the back and 24 at the front. I don't need the last gear to keep 10% for kms and I'm no pro. Gravel bikes, with the philosophy of versatility, are only truly useful if they can duplicate 3X10 for climbing and speed. I don't understand the abandonment of multiple chainrings but at least there is hope with the obviously better inhub systems. Excellent quality video.
I agree on that, my road bike has Microshift 2x8 gears, while it has nice top speed, on hills its much easier to go with my old heavy commuter with cheapest 3x7 gears that even not all of them work :D
I like how cassetes have evolved, having so many gears with such great ratio of gears, but I still want 3 rings at front :D
@@hrisdev4 Is your un-enjoyment of a 3X a real physical/practical thing or is it a psychological thing? I mean, it only differs from 1x or 2x by very simple clicks. Yet it's so practical with the closest difference available between gears in derailleur systems, allowing going up the steepest hills and still pedaling at 55km/h. Is its appearance that horrible, its extra weight so significant or is it just social pressure that drives someone to accept 2x and not 3x?
A typical cheap 1x Shimano Deore 12 speed with 10-51T cassette and 32 front covers your 3x10, has no FD, no FD shifter, no FD cable, and weights much much less. You can put 36T front if need more speed, and still will keep 99.9% of your 24/36. Personally, I will never go to the annoyance of a steel triple crank unless it is an old city bike I don't mind to be stolen.
@cyclingabout you have mentioned gravel bike getting suspension. Cannondale has introduced the slate with mtb gears and lefty suspension 8 years ago... The topstone even introduced a back sus.
The future of gravel is more like fully suspended e-gravel bikes.
Ho no, we have the Cannondale Neo Topstone, a fully suspended e-gravel bikes that is a couple of years old.
A detailed review would be great because you excel at that.
I ride gravel and MTB, y compare them? I never have the control and feeling for my front tyre on the gravel as on the MTB. It's like comparing a twin cylinder rally honda with a Motocross husquarna
i agree
The SOMA Wolverine had 3 of the mentioned features in 2014, including belt drive compatibility.
Its a great time to be alive!
Is there a place to find the hysteresis of tires?
There is a Database on the webs that contains rolling resistance measurements of bike tires. You generally can say that good rolling tires have a efficient casing ergo a low rolling resistance.
I’ve had motorcycles with belt drives and they’re great as they need no maintenance. However they have one major drawback and that is grit, stones and general debris can seriously damage the belt and the sprockets and that’s why you’ll never see them used on any form of off road motorcycle. I doubt they’ll be durable enough for use on a gravel bike.
I think Gravelbikes will be made in more categories and not just Gravelbike. Like Road has Aero, Climbing and Endurance, or MTB has Cross Country, Trail, Downhill and Enduro, Gravelbikes could be made in categories like touring (the basic Gravelbike of today), xtra offroad (with suspension and MTB tires) and race (no mounting points, made for speed). Many already have this, like the Canyon Grail would be a race Gravelbike and the Canyon Grizzl is for touring, bike packing, commuting and so.
Is there a list available of gravel bikes (not mtb) that clear a 60mm tyre?
I ride wide but... rotational mass ? Not a factor in the rim and rubber weight making a bike slower acceleration?
Really like your view on things. It always opens my eyes again.
I guess it depends on the kind of road / path you have available in your region. As you said gravel bike is made for back road network away from the big majority of car traffic. That said where I live, that network is at least still 80% road (albeit not that smooth) and the gravel part is mostly hard packed dirt/gravel so pretty fast rolling anyway. So for my used case (and frankly, most of the european cyclist one), the perfect gravel bike is close to en endurance road bike, with a slightly longer wheelbase, no suspension, and 35 to 45mm tires depending on the thread pattern, the kind of terrain you ride, and the rims you have. If you live in a relatively flat area, narrower handlebars with next to no flare and deeper rims is gonna make more difference to the effort you produc than big tires and suspension.
That said, the wider choice of gearing and internal gearbox is a welcome addition to biking in general.
As I get older ( I'm in the 4th quarter😢) i like what is happening, in terms of gravel bikes, but want ( need) an egravel bike with a low power bottom bracket motor (Tq, Zf as examples)with 650b wheels and 60mm tire width and internal gearing (enviolo zas example)