@@bikesbymike No doubt it was a lot of work! I did notice a while back that most bike manufacturer's will archive the specifications for their bikes online. They keep the same format from year to year but you need to know that this is actually on their website, they don't make it obvious.
Love the overlays of the different bike geometries (old vs new)! Also worthy of note: a) beyond stack and reach, head and seat tube angles, and fork rake/trail also affect bike handling and feel and are similar among model years; (b) the newer bikes can handle larger tire sizes and wider rims, probably the best feature of the newer bikes (faster, and more plush); (c) the newer bike model seat stays connect to the seat tube far lower than earlier models making the rear triangle stiff, but allowing the seat post more compliant fore and aft (less jarring and fatiguing). Thanks for posting!
Nice video and insightful comparison. The only issue is that only the newest generation is a threaded BB, and I, having gone through bad experiences with PF BB, am left with no choice other than going for the latest. Looking forward to the release of 2024 SystemSix to decide.
Hi Mike, I also think new bike prices are absolutely insane. I bought last year a 2020 Cannondale Super Six Evo Hi Mod for $4.5k US. The bike sold new for $7.2k US. The bike is all Shimano Dura Ace Mechanical and I absolutely love this bike. I have no intention to up grade any time soon. I agree with you that bikes don't make drastic upgrades every year. They are very small but the cost of a new bike gets more and more insane to purchase. Thanks for a great and well informative video. .
Good buy! I didn't want to get into it in my video as it was running too long anyways, but there are other factors that are impacting bike prices at the moment. The pandemic created a massive short supply of bikes for a while, but more recently, bike manufacturers and retailers are stuck with a ton of past year inventory that they are desperately trying to unload. So, prices for past year models will just keep plummeting until that older inventory is cleared.
good quality frames should last years, if people really want upgrades, then upgrade the gears to the latest gen, or upgrade the wheels. sell the old parts to recuperate some of the costs.
I believe the bike companies are taking desperate measures to avoid failure. They are trying to sell us things we don't want/need to enhance margins to stave off disaster.
Wholeheartedly agree with the comment about different bikes of the same class and all of a similar quality. I’ve always said to people pick the one you can afford in the colour you like. Simple.
Thanks for an excellent video. Very insightful and no doubt a lot of time put into analysing the differences. I'm looking at a Gen 3 and think I'll pull the trigger after watching this!
I have the 3rd gen Hi-Mod, same green model in the vid, with tpu tubes, 25 P Zero Race tires, Prologo saddle, full dura-ace, and the upgraded Vision Metron cockpit and I love it.
Nice setup! There obviously was an over-supply of these 3rd gen bikes as I still see them on sale here in Canada. Fortunately for me, not quite as heavily discounted as when I bought mine. Thanks for watching!
I need to have the latest tech. In 1971 I purchased a Peugeot PX10 for $300, This year I am upgrading to a custom built Titanium bike. Yes IIIIII stay right on top of the latest and greatest tech. My PX10 is only 600 grams heavier than the latest and greatest bikes today.
That puts things in perspective, for sure! Alex from Peak Torque appeared on the Nero Show recently and made a good point. If you're racing or group riding, any aero (and/or weight) advantage of modern bikes is basically nullified by the draft you're getting from the riders around you, so it just doesn't matter. Of course, some riders spend all their time in groups. Others, none. But just another example where performance claims aren't necessarily as significant as they are made up to be.
I just recently purchased my Cannondale Topstone Carbon 3L. I was looking to purchase a Topstone Alloy 1. Because the Carbon was on sale at almost the price as the alloy I couldn't pass it up. So I totally agree with you. Buying the previous year model can save you $
I agree with the press fit BB thingy. Personally, I've never had a single issue with press fit BB and do believe any issues are attributed to sloppy manufacturing tolerances. I have two Giant TCR advanced SL's. Great vid by the way!
I'm still fine with PF BBs even though my PF on my Cannondale SystemSix failed two months after I bought it. Re-installed a new one with retaining compound and it was fine three years later when I eventually sold it. Like you say, it's all about the manufacturing tolerances. If bike companies can't get the factories that build their frames to be able to drill a round hole, they need to find new factories ;)
People don't realize how many threaded BBs have poor tolerances. Bike shops just don't deal with them on complete bikes until a customer complains. This has always been terribly common. It was common long before the first carbon bike was ever made
Nobody cares about tolerances. The reason threaded is superior is because a $20 BB adapter is all I need an I'll be using the same socket wrench that I use on everything else around the home. And they are stupid simple to replace. PF is an absolute bitch by comparison.
Your video is great.. Buying a previous year bike makes a lot of sense. Especially when it comes to paying the markup on the brand new bike that just came out. It is used right after your first ride. I am probably going to buy a new bike, but not the current year bike.
Nice! Thanks for watching. I have a video coming out in the next couple weeks covering my new bike purchase. You have every right to call me a hypocrite, although I tried to build a case to justify my decision. 😂
Absolutely threaded BB's for me. Have bikes with BB86, BB30, PF30 - all got wheeler MFG BB's installed to run 24 mm Shimano cranks. My older lynskey has threaded BB, my older bikes I sold had english threaded BBs and by far they are easiest to install and replace; prices were the same as press-in cups here in US.
AS soon as I bought my cannondale supersix old version I just didn't relized I bought an OLD ONE....Cause the website of Cannondale says "30 watts faster compared to the old version". I thought that would be the new one😅😅As I bought it. I kinda feel regrets. then I saw your video. Helps me a lot!!😄😄
Hah! You know, it wasn't all that clear to me either when I first started shopping for the SuperSix. The shop I bought it from didn't list the model year OR the gen # in the product description, so it wasn't obvious whether it was a new model or old model year. I just remembered what the paint colour and build was like from the previous year, otherwise, I would have had to do some more digging. Never look back on your bike buying decisions. Never.😀
Ok I feel I need to comment on this since I used an evo 3 himod for 3 years and recently upgraded to lab71. 1. Weight diff is insignificant 2. Geometry is identical as they say it is. It is actually one of the reasons for me to upgrade as I was happy with the geometry and didn’t actually want a change although it did change beucase of the new Momo design handlebar. 3. Pressfit bottom bracket. This is the real reason for me to change cos the evo3 wouldn’t stop creaking and it was driving me insane. I actually started wearing AirPods so I don’t have to hear the creaks. 4. Price- this is where relationship mattters. I got the evo3 for 7100 usd with sram force axs and knot 45 wheels from a local dealer (first time purchase from that shop). This year I got the Lab71 team color frameset with Momo handlebar and got a steep discount as well on it from the same local shop. I was also able to sell the evo3 himod at a very good price locally and in the end the transaction only cost me 4k usd to upgrade (from a 3yr old frame). I guess I have a good relationship but it goes to show the deals are there to be had. Lastly I don’t know if it’s placebo effect or what but the new frame is much more aero and feels way waster on the flats in the very Windy City i live in (hong Kong). This is not anecdotal as I was doing strava PRs literally every ride for the first few months on segments I have done 50-60 times on the lab71 using same wheels and tires. And I am less in shape than I was during Covid when I rode much more due to everything else on lockdown. This was unexpected as I didn’t expect the bike to be both more comfortable and faster but it most certainly is. I actually thought due to same geometry it wouldn’t actually feel any different or be faster. So while you make a case I feel I need to share my own real world experience which contradicts it.
Just ordered a 2022 supersix evo se with electronic 2x11 sram group set for $2300. Soooo excited to experience wireless shifting for the first time. I’ll take the crumbs of the rich any day!!!!!
You did a good job explaining everything. But I still think the first Gen. Super six is the best. The seat stays go all the way to the Back at the top , which gives more stability to the bike. I will always believe this, When you start lowering the seat stays Lower and lower you lose stability in the rear end Of your bike you .. Yes, I have owned many cannondales all of them. Aluminum, i'm not a big fan of carbon fiber. I am a steal fan or aluminum, But if I was to buy carbon fiber it would be a first gen.
Nice video. My 54 cm 2015 Supersix Evo frame is 999 grams with no headset, fork, hanger, seat collar, or bottle cage bolts. Was there a high-mod version that year? 999 g is lot more than your 695 g stat. I’m not sure Cannondale is always honest about weight. I dropped 150 g off my bike by just replacing the stock fork. Also, I remember the super six as early as 2007. I remember because I was deciding between that and the less-prone-to-crack system six.
Thanks for your comment. Interesting to know. To your point, the weight claims all always confusing and difficult to verify as often they don’t reference them to frame size, paint application, or even if it’s just for a limited edition frame. I had to refer to Cannondale’s 2012 Catalog to verify their lineup and weight claim. This is my understanding. The 2012 generation SuperSix EVOs all came with what they called their “SuperSix EVO, BallisTec Hi-Mod Carbon.” I called it “SuperSix EVO BallisTec Carbon” and it seems to have been referred to by different names. Regardless, it was their top-of-the-line Hi-Mod carbon for the day. They claimed a weight of 695 grams, but that was for their special light paint version in size 56 cm. Their lower tier SuperSix frame (non-EVO) had what they called “Full Carbon” which I believe was their heavier intermediate modulus carbon frame. It had a claimed weight around 950 grams.
I think you are mistaking, I’ve got a second hand similar to gen 3 (system six) and rebuilt it, the changer in the gen 4 are numerous and significant ! Changing how the hi end carbon is built is not a detail , that on its own is a generation leap, then the integration /triangular stearing /one piece cockpit is what everyone is waiting for cyclocross, gravel, and road, the loss of the frontal aero passing is a massive change, i don’t know if its better, or even retro compatible with mechanical, but it’s not the same at all. The botom bracket and the tyre clearance is also changed, comparend to gen 1 or gen 2, this gen 4 is a cyclocross… Sure the wheels, the componenetry looks the same, but the frame is most definitely 4 years modern in its solutions. Get a gen 1 and a gen 4 on cobbles or strade bianche gravel gravel sections, no need to be a pro, simply smash threw like on groupe ride competitive section. They are not the same at all ! Now get the aero and the confort improvements on the flat and climbs, those will make a significant difference on where you are in the bunch, and how tired you get back home. That said I don’t have the money to buy new bikes, but I’ll certainly look for the cyclocross capabilities of the caad update, and I hope to see a triangular steerer with fully integrated mechanical compatibility.
Systemsix disc ( not technically a gen anything, because the previou system six was a half aloy rim brakes bike ) and Gen3 Supersix evo disc share the same tech package, knot handlebars and stem, integration method, HiMod carbon build, shapes sculpted choices, etc… it’s a 2019 platform The new gen4 is a 2024 platform, the first of this platform. Last years model is a valid strategy, to get the same current bike with minor stuff missing most of the non-new plateforme years. But the rebate is not usually that big. My point is : Buy a gen3 on sale and your in the 2019 platform club, buy a gen4 and sure it’s a more expensive update but your in the 2024 plateform club, and up to date plateforme for 5 years to come. 5-8years from now, I’ll still have my 2020 bike, if I was on the market this year I’d want the gen 4.
@@kevingregoire1042 I get what you're saying about buying the newer bike. I just wanted to understand if you were comparing the ride of a System six to a Supersix. It sounds like you are. I've never ridden System Six. But going from Cam Nichols review of both the System Six and the Supersix (Gen 3), it sure sounds like they are pretty far apart in terms of ride quality. I have a high mod Gen 2 Supersix and a high mod Gen 3 Supersix. I hope to try a Gen 4 Supersix. And at some point I may own one. But right now I have no reason to ante up.
Some retailers say the SuS gen4 is just as aero as the System six… Specialized ( witch has discontinued their aero Venge ) marketed the SL8 as more aero than the Venge. Depends on wheels, fit and position, integration, tweaks etc… But if it was entirely true, timetrail bike would look more like those all-around frames, and less like those deep sections aero frames
Good comments here, guys. I’ll add my own since I’ve owned and ridden the 2020 SystemSix EVO back-to-back with my current 2022 SuperSix. I know you’re not comparing these two bikes, buy thought I’d share my experience anyways. What I will say is that the ride feel between the two bikes is night-and-day apart. The SystemSix is much less compliant than the SuperSix due mainly to the different choices in seat posts, not frames. I also had to spend way more time on the bike fit for my SuperSix to get a more aggressive riding position; out of the box, the SuperSix felt way too comfort-focused. While it doesn’t make sense to compare the SystemSix to the SuperSix because they are completely different styles of bikes, I will make a VERY anecdotal comment; they are very similar in terms of aero advantage on both flats and hills, even though they feel so different. I have routes in my area I’ve ridden dozens of times between both bikes. Looking at all the hard, solo tempo rides Ive done over this rolling terrain-same route, similar wind conditions and ridden at the same freshness-I get virtually the same average speeds at the same average powers on all my rides. If anything, a bit better with the SuperSix, but I put that up to me improving my aero position on the bike. Totally unscientific, I know. But interesting. What’s more interesting is that when I upgraded from my 2016 Specialized Tarmac to my 2020 SystemSix, I immediately saw a 1 km/h improvement (30 km/h to 31 km/h) in my average speed over the same route on each ride I did. So I would say there was a noticeable aero difference between the Tarmac and SystemSix, but not between the SystemSix and SuperSix.
Also, EVO4 hi-mod frame is also a good choice. But you get a better handlebar integration, bb that just works, better aerodynamics etc. And it's just like 40 grams heavier than lab71.
Or applying the points from the video - you can try to find evo1 frame and put on that di2 - geometry mostly the same, weight is lower, price is lower.
Mike, I agree with your approach, the prices are absurd, I don't agree with them. But I have a SuperSix Evo Gen 3, and the problem is that the bike is slow. Very comfortable for long rides, it accommodates 700x32 tires (Goodyear F1), but it’s not responsive, it's heavy, and it has no aero advantage, even though it has a race geometry. I’m not sure if I would buy the Gen 4, but the Gen 3 is a very slow bike.
Thanks for watching! I really like the ride feel of my SuperSix now, but not how it came out-of-the-box. The stock fit felt like I was driving a bus. Slow and sloppy. Much too slack for my liking with weight way too far back over the rear wheel and sitting too upright. I know bike fit is very personal, but this is what I had to do to get the ride feel I was looking for and to replicate what I had on my previous Cannondale SystemSix: - Replaced the stock Hollowgram KNOT 15mm offset seatpost with a KNOT 0mm offset. - Cut down the steerer tube and removed several stem spacers. - Replaced the HollowGram SAVE stem (-6 degrees, 100mm) with a HollowGram KNOT SystemBar Stem (-17 degrees, 80mm). - Installed shorter, 167.5mm Rotor Crank arms (and a power meter). - Currently running Continental GP5000 S TRs size 28c. I'd prefer 40cm wide handlebars over the 42s that came with the bike, but I haven't yet dropped the cash to replace them. I turn in my brake hoods which will have to do for now.
@@Up2L842moro Really good point and I wish I would have gone one size down. I really do like the feel of my bike now, but it took a lot of adjustment and swapping out of parts to get there.
For mtb, gravel bike, they are still figuring those out. But road bike? I can keep my 8 years old rim brake bike for as long as the industry still makes parts for it.
Even with the MTBs geometries are stabilising having gone slack and long enough to cater for more stability for downhill sections and some brands allow for angle changes to be made be the owner. Gravel bikes are still finding out what a gravel bike should be and are now almost a XC bike with drop bars.
@@rommelreyes2209 - I think you are referring to the routing of the brake cables through the stem spacers and then into the frame? This is the same routing used on my previous bike, the Cannondale SystemSix. From what was visible, the cables on that bike showed no signs of wear after four years. And since there were no pinch points, I wouldn’t expect any noticeable wear-ever…just the occasional irritating sound of cables knocking against the inside of the bike frame 😉
For most of us, the very marginal gains of this years bikes are exactly that, marginal and most regular cyclists will not see any improvement in riding speed, handling etc. What you can do is buy the older model but fit high end tyres, which do make a significant improvement. Also to consider are riding position to get more aero, clothing again for more aero and comfort and training to improve fitness.
Thanks! The best time to shop for prior model year bikes is about now; just before the start of the new summer season. For current model year bikes, it would be the end of the summer season and into winter. But this year is an anomaly with the post-pandemic bust in the bike industry and the massive oversupply of inventory. Any time this year you are sure to find massively discounted prices on prior year models. BTW, my next video will be on that exact topic. Cheers.
Yes, they put in some tiny magnesium inserts where the fork touches the frame instead of the bare carbon on models older than 2021. Not the greatest solution but better than nothing.
Thanks for this video. I bought the gen 3 on a whim in July 2023, without checking for the upcoming model. I do like to say I prefer the gen 3 looks, but am not sure if that's the copium speaking.
This is a well reasoned person making an argument that I want to disagree with but can't. Because I myself believe it. I have long believed that buying previous models is the way to go. In 2018 I bought a 2015 Cannondale super X. In 2019 I bought a 2017 Specialized Ruby. In 2021 I bought a 2019 Wilier Cento 1 Cross. And in 2022 I bought a 2019 Trek RSL Boone frameset. And later in 2022 I bought 2 new Trek Boones, only because I got deep discounts. Very deep. There's a lot of reasons to buy new. But I have to agree with the many reasons to buy previous year model stuff as well. I am waiting for the new Trek Emonda and Trek Boone to come out, as I am hoping to get more discounts on previous gen stuff. New Supercaliber, Fuel EX, and Madone came out 2022-2023, so 2024 have to be those 2, right? 2025 will be a new Checkpoint and Top Fuel. So N+1 reigns again!
Nice video and really great comparison! Since Hi-Mod was chosen for the comparison and quite a few people won't be able to buy Hi-Mod, does this also apply to Gen 4 EVO 2 (Ultegra di2) and Evo 3 (105 di2)? I would imagine Evo 3 with 105 di2 will still be a great choice after getting a 25% or more discount. I welcome your thoughts. Thanks!
Yeah, you make a really good (and fair) point. I've picked their most expensive option in the 2023 SuperSix EVO lineup which is where you get the largest savings. But if I chose something like the Gen 4 EVO 2 (Ultegra Di2), then it wouldn't make sense comparing it to my Dura Ace Di2 which is spec'd out with much better components; you'd have to compare it with something like the 2022 SuperSix Ultegra. But you are bang on in saying that the savings between new model year and previous model year bikes gets progressively narrower as you go further down to a brand's budget-focused options.
@@bikesbymike Having spent a large amount of time on both, a Gen4 ultegra would be a noticeably faster and more comfortable bike then a gen 3 with dura-ace. The weight penalty is minor but the bike feel is completely different even though the geo numbers are the same
@@bikesbymike I appreciate your response!! I should have clarified that I meant, comparing Gen 4 Evo 2 and 3 to older gens. To your point and based on my comparison, i ended up buying Gen 4 - Evo 3, since I got a decent deal. Just felt, I was getting electronic shifting at that budget focused price range and will upgrade the bike with better (i.e. Carbon) wheels in the near future. However, if I have to bike something like Lab 71 or along those lines within Cannondale, I would buy a previous Gen based on what you have already highlighted.
I totally agree with you. Unless u are sponsor by a team expending crazy amount of money every 3 years makes no sense. I buy past models and save a lot of money. The differences between models does not benefit regular humans. Not that many people can hold 45 kph to get the full benefits
Nice score! The PressFit BB on my SuperSix has been a non-issue. Although, the PF30a on my previous Cannondale SystemSix started creaking two months in. Easy and cheap fix to replace it, so no worries. The trick is to install PF BBs with primer and retaining compound. Cheers. Thanks for watching!
I am struggling to decide whether to get the last year's Evo ultegra di2 (no model number) and this year's evo 2. Only difference i notice is the BB and the handle bar. Both are priced at 8500nzd. Which one do you thing is the better option?
Since they are both the same price, better to go with this year's model. Slightly better for resale as it'll be one year newer (on paper) and a threaded BB which is becoming the new norm.
i had the CAAD12 which has the same geometry than the super Six. This bikeway very racy, head angle was 73cm and it was really short.then I bought the supersix previous gen. in 54. This bike is so boring, with an head angle of 71.4 and the wheelbase is so long. Iam looking for a new bike.
I'm currently debating buying a Gen 3 vs a Gen 4. For the same price, the Gen 3 is far better specced than the Gen 4. To conclude from your video, I'd be better off buying the Gen 3 as I won't notice any actual performance improvement or ride improvement?
I don’t think you’d notice any performance improvement in going with the Gen 4. And since, like you say, the previous gen model is spec’d better, it’s possible the older version will also perform better. All too often “performance” claims on new bikes are made irrespective of the build specs. This makes no sense to me as about 90% of the bike’s total weight is determined by the components, not the frame. And having upgraded a lot of wheelsets over the years, I can say that wheels alone impact ride performance way more than an upgraded frame with a new carbon layup. And this says nothing about how things like a newer drivetrain can improve ride feel. Good luck with your new Cannondale. Whatever you get, you’ll love it.
The low-hanging fruit in racing bike aerodynamics has already been harvested. Today there is no longer a 2-digit watt reduction in air resistance when changing models. Furthermore, there are currently no additional gears for racing bikes.
Comparison by overlaying them and then claiming a lack of difference between them, is akin to saying that Jonas and your random passerby are similar because they both have a head, two arms and legs in the same general sort of proportions. Plus, the main purpose of buying a road bike is to FLAUNT your wealth. It’s an act only achievable if you have excess cash that can be diverted to something other that what lays food on the dinner table . So, Unless you are a depending on your bike for your paycheck, the road bike is a LUXURY purchase. And discussing value for dollar in a luxury purchase is an inane view.
Or do what i did. Find good deals on separate components and custom build the bike yourself. My Lab71 cost me $11k with all brand new parts. Still an insane amount of money but you know… I don’t buy clothes, expensive cars, electronic gadgets and don’t have kids 😂
I bought a 2022 gen 3 supersix evo, with sram force etap and zipp 303s wheels and had done less than 500 miles. It looked like it had just come out of the shop. I paid £3500 😮. Why would I buy a new, new model when there are deals like that out there 😃😃🚵
A really nice technical presentation with no hype, or fuss and treats the viewer with honesty and integrity. I like it a lot.
Thanks! Took me so long to find and verify all the stats I needed for this video that I'm not sure I'll do one like this again ;)
@@bikesbymike No doubt it was a lot of work! I did notice a while back that most bike manufacturer's will archive the specifications for their bikes online. They keep the same format from year to year but you need to know that this is actually on their website, they don't make it obvious.
Love the overlays of the different bike geometries (old vs new)! Also worthy of note: a) beyond stack and reach, head and seat tube angles, and fork rake/trail also affect bike handling and feel and are similar among model years; (b) the newer bikes can handle larger tire sizes and wider rims, probably the best feature of the newer bikes (faster, and more plush); (c) the newer bike model seat stays connect to the seat tube far lower than earlier models making the rear triangle stiff, but allowing the seat post more compliant fore and aft (less jarring and fatiguing). Thanks for posting!
Yes. Good points! Thanks.
Nice video and insightful comparison. The only issue is that only the newest generation is a threaded BB, and I, having gone through bad experiences with PF BB, am left with no choice other than going for the latest. Looking forward to the release of 2024 SystemSix to decide.
Hi Mike,
I also think new bike prices are absolutely insane. I bought last year a 2020 Cannondale Super Six Evo Hi Mod for $4.5k US. The bike sold new for $7.2k US. The bike is all Shimano Dura Ace Mechanical and I absolutely love this bike. I have no intention to up grade any time soon. I agree with you that bikes don't make drastic upgrades every year. They are very small but the cost of a new bike gets more and more insane to purchase. Thanks for a great and well informative video. .
Good buy! I didn't want to get into it in my video as it was running too long anyways, but there are other factors that are impacting bike prices at the moment. The pandemic created a massive short supply of bikes for a while, but more recently, bike manufacturers and retailers are stuck with a ton of past year inventory that they are desperately trying to unload. So, prices for past year models will just keep plummeting until that older inventory is cleared.
good quality frames should last years, if people really want upgrades, then upgrade the gears to the latest gen, or upgrade the wheels. sell the old parts to recuperate some of the costs.
I believe the bike companies are taking desperate measures to avoid failure. They are trying to sell us things we don't want/need to enhance margins to stave off disaster.
Wholeheartedly agree with the comment about different bikes of the same class and all of a similar quality. I’ve always said to people pick the one you can afford in the colour you like. Simple.
Great video, I got this epiphany a while back, nice to have the science behind my decision. 👍🏾
Thanks for an excellent video. Very insightful and no doubt a lot of time put into analysing the differences. I'm looking at a Gen 3 and think I'll pull the trigger after watching this!
Congrats and good luck with purchase. Good time to buy a bike; lots of deals around.
I have the 3rd gen Hi-Mod, same green model in the vid, with tpu tubes, 25 P Zero Race tires, Prologo saddle, full dura-ace, and the upgraded Vision Metron cockpit and I love it.
Nice setup! There obviously was an over-supply of these 3rd gen bikes as I still see them on sale here in Canada. Fortunately for me, not quite as heavily discounted as when I bought mine. Thanks for watching!
Excellent technical presentation. Thank you for your effort. You are an excellent presenter.
Thanks for watching!
I need to have the latest tech. In 1971 I purchased a Peugeot PX10 for $300, This year I am upgrading to a custom built Titanium bike. Yes IIIIII stay right on top of the latest and greatest tech. My PX10 is only 600 grams heavier than the latest and greatest bikes today.
That puts things in perspective, for sure! Alex from Peak Torque appeared on the Nero Show recently and made a good point. If you're racing or group riding, any aero (and/or weight) advantage of modern bikes is basically nullified by the draft you're getting from the riders around you, so it just doesn't matter. Of course, some riders spend all their time in groups. Others, none. But just another example where performance claims aren't necessarily as significant as they are made up to be.
I bought a used gen 3 as well because it was significantly more affordable and I also prefer the more understated brand free colorway.
I just recently purchased my Cannondale Topstone Carbon 3L. I was looking to purchase a Topstone Alloy 1. Because the Carbon was on sale at almost the price as the alloy I couldn't pass it up. So I totally agree with you. Buying the previous year model can save you $
Good choice!
I agree with the press fit BB thingy. Personally, I've never had a single issue with press fit BB and do believe any issues are attributed to sloppy manufacturing tolerances. I have two Giant TCR advanced SL's. Great vid by the way!
I'm still fine with PF BBs even though my PF on my Cannondale SystemSix failed two months after I bought it. Re-installed a new one with retaining compound and it was fine three years later when I eventually sold it. Like you say, it's all about the manufacturing tolerances. If bike companies can't get the factories that build their frames to be able to drill a round hole, they need to find new factories ;)
People don't realize how many threaded BBs have poor tolerances. Bike shops just don't deal with them on complete bikes until a customer complains. This has always been terribly common. It was common long before the first carbon bike was ever made
Nobody cares about tolerances. The reason threaded is superior is because a $20 BB adapter is all I need an I'll be using the same socket wrench that I use on everything else around the home. And they are stupid simple to replace. PF is an absolute bitch by comparison.
I've had issues with every pressfit I have owned and I attribute it to my erratic sprint.
Your video is great.. Buying a previous year bike makes a lot of sense. Especially when it comes to paying the markup on the brand new bike that just came out. It is used right after your first ride. I am probably going to buy a new bike, but not the current year bike.
Nice! Thanks for watching. I have a video coming out in the next couple weeks covering my new bike purchase. You have every right to call me a hypocrite, although I tried to build a case to justify my decision. 😂
Tks for the effort you put into this very insightful video.
Absolutely threaded BB's for me. Have bikes with BB86, BB30, PF30 - all got wheeler MFG BB's installed to run 24 mm Shimano cranks. My older lynskey has threaded BB, my older bikes I sold had english threaded BBs and by far they are easiest to install and replace; prices were the same as press-in cups here in US.
AS soon as I bought my cannondale supersix old version I just didn't relized I bought an OLD ONE....Cause the website of Cannondale says "30 watts faster compared to the old version". I thought that would be the new one😅😅As I bought it. I kinda feel regrets. then I saw your video. Helps me a lot!!😄😄
Hah! You know, it wasn't all that clear to me either when I first started shopping for the SuperSix. The shop I bought it from didn't list the model year OR the gen # in the product description, so it wasn't obvious whether it was a new model or old model year. I just remembered what the paint colour and build was like from the previous year, otherwise, I would have had to do some more digging. Never look back on your bike buying decisions. Never.😀
@@bikesbymike Yes, and having a goal in the future upgrading your bike is an enjoyable thing.
Ok I feel I need to comment on this since I used an evo 3 himod for 3 years and recently upgraded to lab71.
1. Weight diff is insignificant
2. Geometry is identical as they say it is. It is actually one of the reasons for me to upgrade as I was happy with the geometry and didn’t actually want a change although it did change beucase of the new Momo design handlebar.
3. Pressfit bottom bracket. This is the real reason for me to change cos the evo3 wouldn’t stop creaking and it was driving me insane. I actually started wearing AirPods so I don’t have to hear the creaks.
4. Price- this is where relationship mattters. I got the evo3 for 7100 usd with sram force axs and knot 45 wheels from a local dealer (first time purchase from that shop). This year I got the Lab71 team color frameset with Momo handlebar and got a steep discount as well on it from the same local shop. I was also able to sell the evo3 himod at a very good price locally and in the end the transaction only cost me 4k usd to upgrade (from a 3yr old frame). I guess I have a good relationship but it goes to show the deals are there to be had.
Lastly I don’t know if it’s placebo effect or what but the new frame is much more aero and feels way waster on the flats in the very Windy City i live in (hong Kong). This is not anecdotal as I was doing strava PRs literally every ride for the first few months on segments I have done 50-60 times on the lab71 using same wheels and tires. And I am less in shape than I was during Covid when I rode much more due to everything else on lockdown. This was unexpected as I didn’t expect the bike to be both more comfortable and faster but it most certainly is. I actually thought due to same geometry it wouldn’t actually feel any different or be faster.
So while you make a case I feel I need to share my own real world experience which contradicts it.
Having ridden both. The Gen 4 is more comfortable.
Plus it tests faster in the wind tunnel.
Win win
I have both as well and it is a night and day difference, the gen 4 is more comfortable, stiffer, noticeably faster and has some other great changes
Just ordered a 2022 supersix evo se with electronic 2x11 sram group set for $2300. Soooo excited to experience wireless shifting for the first time. I’ll take the crumbs of the rich any day!!!!!
That is a super good deal!
I buy a new bike every few years.. love the new bike feel!
You did a good job explaining everything. But I still think the first Gen. Super six is the best. The seat stays go all the way to the Back at the top , which gives more stability to the bike. I will always believe this, When you start lowering the seat stays Lower and lower you lose stability in the rear end Of your bike you .. Yes, I have owned many cannondales all of them. Aluminum, i'm not a big fan of carbon fiber. I am a steal fan or aluminum, But if I was to buy carbon fiber it would be a first gen.
Nice video. My 54 cm 2015 Supersix Evo frame is 999 grams with no headset, fork, hanger, seat collar, or bottle cage bolts. Was there a high-mod version that year? 999 g is lot more than your 695 g stat. I’m not sure Cannondale is always honest about weight. I dropped 150 g off my bike by just replacing the stock fork. Also, I remember the super six as early as 2007. I remember because I was deciding between that and the less-prone-to-crack system six.
Thanks for your comment. Interesting to know. To your point, the weight claims all always confusing and difficult to verify as often they don’t reference them to frame size, paint application, or even if it’s just for a limited edition frame. I had to refer to Cannondale’s 2012 Catalog to verify their lineup and weight claim. This is my understanding. The 2012 generation SuperSix EVOs all came with what they called their “SuperSix EVO, BallisTec Hi-Mod Carbon.” I called it “SuperSix EVO BallisTec Carbon” and it seems to have been referred to by different names. Regardless, it was their top-of-the-line Hi-Mod carbon for the day. They claimed a weight of 695 grams, but that was for their special light paint version in size 56 cm. Their lower tier SuperSix frame (non-EVO) had what they called “Full Carbon” which I believe was their heavier intermediate modulus carbon frame. It had a claimed weight around 950 grams.
@@bikesbymike Thanks for the explanation! Maybe I have the Full Carbon and not the Evo
Very informative video. Very well structured presentation. Well done!
I think you are mistaking,
I’ve got a second hand similar to gen 3 (system six) and rebuilt it,
the changer in the gen 4 are numerous and significant !
Changing how the hi end carbon is built is not a detail , that on its own is a generation leap, then the integration /triangular stearing /one piece cockpit is what everyone is waiting for cyclocross, gravel, and road, the loss of the frontal aero passing is a massive change, i don’t know if its better, or even retro compatible with mechanical, but it’s not the same at all.
The botom bracket and the tyre clearance is also changed, comparend to gen 1 or gen 2, this gen 4 is a cyclocross…
Sure the wheels, the componenetry looks the same, but the frame is most definitely 4 years modern in its solutions.
Get a gen 1 and a gen 4 on cobbles or strade bianche gravel gravel sections, no need to be a pro, simply smash threw like on groupe ride competitive section. They are not the same at all ! Now get the aero and the confort improvements on the flat and climbs, those will make a significant difference on where you are in the bunch, and how tired you get back home.
That said I don’t have the money to buy new bikes, but I’ll certainly look for the cyclocross capabilities of the caad update, and I hope to see a triangular steerer with fully integrated mechanical compatibility.
Are you comparing a Gen 3 System Six to a Gen 4 Supersix? Just trying to understand.
Systemsix disc ( not technically a gen anything, because the previou system six was a half aloy rim brakes bike ) and Gen3 Supersix evo disc share the same tech package, knot handlebars and stem, integration method, HiMod carbon build, shapes sculpted choices, etc… it’s a 2019 platform
The new gen4 is a 2024 platform, the first of this platform.
Last years model is a valid strategy, to get the same current bike with minor stuff missing most of the non-new plateforme years.
But the rebate is not usually that big.
My point is : Buy a gen3 on sale and your in the 2019 platform club, buy a gen4 and sure it’s a more expensive update but your in the 2024 plateform club, and up to date plateforme for 5 years to come.
5-8years from now, I’ll still have my 2020 bike, if I was on the market this year I’d want the gen 4.
@@kevingregoire1042 I get what you're saying about buying the newer bike. I just wanted to understand if you were comparing the ride of a System six to a Supersix. It sounds like you are. I've never ridden System Six. But going from Cam Nichols review of both the System Six and the Supersix (Gen 3), it sure sounds like they are pretty far apart in terms of ride quality. I have a high mod Gen 2 Supersix and a high mod Gen 3 Supersix. I hope to try a Gen 4 Supersix. And at some point I may own one. But right now I have no reason to ante up.
Some retailers say the SuS gen4 is just as aero as the System six…
Specialized ( witch has discontinued their aero Venge ) marketed the SL8 as more aero than the Venge.
Depends on wheels, fit and position, integration, tweaks etc…
But if it was entirely true, timetrail bike would look more like those all-around frames, and less like those deep sections aero frames
Good comments here, guys. I’ll add my own since I’ve owned and ridden the 2020 SystemSix EVO back-to-back with my current 2022 SuperSix. I know you’re not comparing these two bikes, buy thought I’d share my experience anyways.
What I will say is that the ride feel between the two bikes is night-and-day apart. The SystemSix is much less compliant than the SuperSix due mainly to the different choices in seat posts, not frames. I also had to spend way more time on the bike fit for my SuperSix to get a more aggressive riding position; out of the box, the SuperSix felt way too comfort-focused.
While it doesn’t make sense to compare the SystemSix to the SuperSix because they are completely different styles of bikes, I will make a VERY anecdotal comment; they are very similar in terms of aero advantage on both flats and hills, even though they feel so different. I have routes in my area I’ve ridden dozens of times between both bikes. Looking at all the hard, solo tempo rides Ive done over this rolling terrain-same route, similar wind conditions and ridden at the same freshness-I get virtually the same average speeds at the same average powers on all my rides. If anything, a bit better with the SuperSix, but I put that up to me improving my aero position on the bike. Totally unscientific, I know. But interesting. What’s more interesting is that when I upgraded from my 2016 Specialized Tarmac to my 2020 SystemSix, I immediately saw a 1 km/h improvement (30 km/h to 31 km/h) in my average speed over the same route on each ride I did. So I would say there was a noticeable aero difference between the Tarmac and SystemSix, but not between the SystemSix and SuperSix.
Also, EVO4 hi-mod frame is also a good choice. But you get a better handlebar integration, bb that just works, better aerodynamics etc. And it's just like 40 grams heavier than lab71.
Or applying the points from the video - you can try to find evo1 frame and put on that di2 - geometry mostly the same, weight is lower, price is lower.
I agree with Hi-mod vs Lab71 comparison. Huge price difference for marginal weight savings. The same situation exists for the Cannondale Scalpel MTB.
Mike, I agree with your approach, the prices are absurd, I don't agree with them. But I have a SuperSix Evo Gen 3, and the problem is that the bike is slow. Very comfortable for long rides, it accommodates 700x32 tires (Goodyear F1), but it’s not responsive, it's heavy, and it has no aero advantage, even though it has a race geometry. I’m not sure if I would buy the Gen 4, but the Gen 3 is a very slow bike.
Thanks for watching!
I really like the ride feel of my SuperSix now, but not how it came out-of-the-box. The stock fit felt like I was driving a bus. Slow and sloppy. Much too slack for my liking with weight way too far back over the rear wheel and sitting too upright.
I know bike fit is very personal, but this is what I had to do to get the ride feel I was looking for and to replicate what I had on my previous Cannondale SystemSix:
- Replaced the stock Hollowgram KNOT 15mm offset seatpost with a KNOT 0mm offset.
- Cut down the steerer tube and removed several stem spacers.
- Replaced the HollowGram SAVE stem (-6 degrees, 100mm) with a HollowGram KNOT SystemBar Stem (-17 degrees, 80mm).
- Installed shorter, 167.5mm Rotor Crank arms (and a power meter).
- Currently running Continental GP5000 S TRs size 28c.
I'd prefer 40cm wide handlebars over the 42s that came with the bike, but I haven't yet dropped the cash to replace them. I turn in my brake hoods which will have to do for now.
@@bikesbymikeSizing down is probably a good idea with the current SSEs. They’re more like endurance bikes.
@@Up2L842moro Really good point and I wish I would have gone one size down. I really do like the feel of my bike now, but it took a lot of adjustment and swapping out of parts to get there.
For mtb, gravel bike, they are still figuring those out. But road bike? I can keep my 8 years old rim brake bike for as long as the industry still makes parts for it.
Even with the MTBs geometries are stabilising having gone slack and long enough to cater for more stability for downhill sections and some brands allow for angle changes to be made be the owner. Gravel bikes are still finding out what a gravel bike should be and are now almost a XC bike with drop bars.
I followed your advice and got the previous SSE ultegra during a sale for just £3500
Nice! That's a really a good price for that build. Enjoy the ride!
@@bikesbymike how did you maintain the cable compartment? I think the constant rubbing of the hydraulic cables can cause problems
@@rommelreyes2209 - I think you are referring to the routing of the brake cables through the stem spacers and then into the frame? This is the same routing used on my previous bike, the Cannondale SystemSix. From what was visible, the cables on that bike showed no signs of wear after four years. And since there were no pinch points, I wouldn’t expect any noticeable wear-ever…just the occasional irritating sound of cables knocking against the inside of the bike frame 😉
For most of us, the very marginal gains of this years bikes are exactly that, marginal and most regular cyclists will not see any improvement in riding speed, handling etc. What you can do is buy the older model but fit high end tyres, which do make a significant improvement. Also to consider are riding position to get more aero, clothing again for more aero and comfort and training to improve fitness.
Good advice!
Love the analysis! When’s the best time to shop for last gen bikes?
Thanks! The best time to shop for prior model year bikes is about now; just before the start of the new summer season. For current model year bikes, it would be the end of the summer season and into winter. But this year is an anomaly with the post-pandemic bust in the bike industry and the massive oversupply of inventory. Any time this year you are sure to find massively discounted prices on prior year models. BTW, my next video will be on that exact topic. Cheers.
did cannondale fix the steerer self destruction issue in later version of the Gen 3 supersix evo? So 21/22 should be safe?
Yes, they put in some tiny magnesium inserts where the fork touches the frame instead of the bare carbon on models older than 2021. Not the greatest solution but better than nothing.
The 2023 (Gen 4) version fixed it completely by allowing the bars to fully turn
@@myxti3669 that quite a terrible fix. In my case it just cut a small lines on the sides, so it does nothing anyway. So, evo4 would be better anyway.
This is why the alum caad 10 and subsequent models have a cult status since the ride is the same with same geometry and just as light
Thanks for this video. I bought the gen 3 on a whim in July 2023, without checking for the upcoming model. I do like to say I prefer the gen 3 looks, but am not sure if that's the copium speaking.
Hah! Never question your bike buying decision after the fact.
This is a well reasoned person making an argument that I want to disagree with but can't. Because I myself believe it. I have long believed that buying previous models is the way to go. In 2018 I bought a 2015 Cannondale super X. In 2019 I bought a 2017 Specialized Ruby. In 2021 I bought a 2019 Wilier Cento 1 Cross. And in 2022 I bought a 2019 Trek RSL Boone frameset. And later in 2022 I bought 2 new Trek Boones, only because I got deep discounts. Very deep. There's a lot of reasons to buy new. But I have to agree with the many reasons to buy previous year model stuff as well. I am waiting for the new Trek Emonda and Trek Boone to come out, as I am hoping to get more discounts on previous gen stuff. New Supercaliber, Fuel EX, and Madone came out 2022-2023, so 2024 have to be those 2, right? 2025 will be a new Checkpoint and Top Fuel. So N+1 reigns again!
Nice video and really great comparison! Since Hi-Mod was chosen for the comparison and quite a few people won't be able to buy Hi-Mod, does this also apply to Gen 4 EVO 2 (Ultegra di2) and Evo 3 (105 di2)? I would imagine Evo 3 with 105 di2 will still be a great choice after getting a 25% or more discount. I welcome your thoughts. Thanks!
Yeah, you make a really good (and fair) point. I've picked their most expensive option in the 2023 SuperSix EVO lineup which is where you get the largest savings. But if I chose something like the Gen 4 EVO 2 (Ultegra Di2), then it wouldn't make sense comparing it to my Dura Ace Di2 which is spec'd out with much better components; you'd have to compare it with something like the 2022 SuperSix Ultegra. But you are bang on in saying that the savings between new model year and previous model year bikes gets progressively narrower as you go further down to a brand's budget-focused options.
@@bikesbymike Having spent a large amount of time on both, a Gen4 ultegra would be a noticeably faster and more comfortable bike then a gen 3 with dura-ace. The weight penalty is minor but the bike feel is completely different even though the geo numbers are the same
@@bikesbymike I appreciate your response!! I should have clarified that I meant, comparing Gen 4 Evo 2 and 3 to older gens. To your point and based on my comparison, i ended up buying Gen 4 - Evo 3, since I got a decent deal. Just felt, I was getting electronic shifting at that budget focused price range and will upgrade the bike with better (i.e. Carbon) wheels in the near future. However, if I have to bike something like Lab 71 or along those lines within Cannondale, I would buy a previous Gen based on what you have already highlighted.
I totally agree with you. Unless u are sponsor by a team expending crazy amount of money every 3 years makes no sense. I buy past models and save a lot of money. The differences between models does not benefit regular humans. Not that many people can hold 45 kph to get the full benefits
hello, awesome vídeo, what is the tire clearance in both models?
Recommended max. tire width is 28mm for older 2020/22 models and 34mm for 2023/24. You could go larger though, at least with my older model.
Got a 2022 evo hi-mod with sram red at $7600 Singapore dollars last week. Only worry is the pf30a bb, but let's hope it serves me creak-free.
Nice score! The PressFit BB on my SuperSix has been a non-issue. Although, the PF30a on my previous Cannondale SystemSix started creaking two months in. Easy and cheap fix to replace it, so no worries. The trick is to install PF BBs with primer and retaining compound. Cheers. Thanks for watching!
I am struggling to decide whether to get the last year's Evo ultegra di2 (no model number) and this year's evo 2. Only difference i notice is the BB and the handle bar. Both are priced at 8500nzd. Which one do you thing is the better option?
Since they are both the same price, better to go with this year's model. Slightly better for resale as it'll be one year newer (on paper) and a threaded BB which is becoming the new norm.
i had the CAAD12 which has the same geometry than the super Six. This bikeway very racy, head angle was 73cm and it was really short.then I bought the supersix previous gen. in 54. This bike is so boring, with an head angle of 71.4 and the wheelbase is so long. Iam looking for a new bike.
Exactly, I agree with you. It’s a very slow bike, I can't compare it to the Specialized Tarmac SL5 I had. The Gen 3 is really a dull bike.
I'm currently debating buying a Gen 3 vs a Gen 4. For the same price, the Gen 3 is far better specced than the Gen 4. To conclude from your video, I'd be better off buying the Gen 3 as I won't notice any actual performance improvement or ride improvement?
I don’t think you’d notice any performance improvement in going with the Gen 4. And since, like you say, the previous gen model is spec’d better, it’s possible the older version will also perform better. All too often “performance” claims on new bikes are made irrespective of the build specs. This makes no sense to me as about 90% of the bike’s total weight is determined by the components, not the frame. And having upgraded a lot of wheelsets over the years, I can say that wheels alone impact ride performance way more than an upgraded frame with a new carbon layup. And this says nothing about how things like a newer drivetrain can improve ride feel. Good luck with your new Cannondale. Whatever you get, you’ll love it.
The low-hanging fruit in racing bike aerodynamics has already been harvested. Today there is no longer a 2-digit watt reduction in air resistance when changing models. Furthermore, there are currently no additional gears for racing bikes.
I like this, but… some of the aero claims are real and do make a significant difference.
seat tube length is not a factor in determining stack and reach.
👌
Comparison by overlaying them and then claiming a lack of difference between them, is akin to saying that Jonas and your random passerby are similar because they both have a head, two arms and legs in the same general sort of proportions.
Plus, the main purpose of buying a road bike is to FLAUNT your wealth. It’s an act only achievable if you have excess cash that can be diverted to something other that what lays food on the dinner table . So, Unless you are a depending on your bike for your paycheck, the road bike is a LUXURY purchase. And discussing value for dollar in a luxury purchase is an inane view.
Or do what i did. Find good deals on separate components and custom build the bike yourself. My Lab71 cost me $11k with all brand new parts. Still an insane amount of money but you know… I don’t buy clothes, expensive cars, electronic gadgets and don’t have kids 😂
All disc brake road bikes are junk. I have a 2014 giant tcr which is lighter and faster than any of the so called super bikes
I bought a 2022 gen 3 supersix evo, with sram force etap and zipp 303s wheels and had done less than 500 miles. It looked like it had just come out of the shop. I paid £3500 😮. Why would I buy a new, new model when there are deals like that out there 😃😃🚵