Interesting. I already have a le creuset piece (6.75 qt wide round), but I was considering getting a 5.5 qt round oven too or possibly that Demeyere pot. Honestly, I was afraid I’d have to buy both, because I didn’t think the stainless steel would hold up as far as stews were concerned, but at the same time I didn’t want to lug out a Dutch oven just to boil water for pasta. Thanks for your video! Now I can save some serious cash and confidently go with the Demeyere!
Thank you, THANK YOU for doing this. My stove is electric coil (cheap rent apartment), and I almost made the mistake of buying an enameled dutch oven if it weren't for your video!
It's a shame this channel has so few subscribers! This video in particular is excellent, with the scientific reasoning behind the arguments. Very nice, thank you!
Another (occasionally) significant advantage of the stainless steel Dutch oven relates to the lip on it's rim that allows it to pour cleanly. There are a number of classic recipes that include a step where you'd want to strain liquid through a sieve before completing a sauce to ensure the final result is smooth -- this is easy to do with the pouring rim of the SS vessel, but always a somewhat messy endeavour using enameled cast iron pieces. Small point perhaps, but a source of mild frustration for me when I try to do this with my Le Creuset. One advantage for enameled cast iron: it's additionally useful for bread baking. Not sure you could do the same thing in a stainless steel vessel (although please correct me if I'm wrong).
Idk, I think stainless steel is beautiful. Also, I think there's a big difference between our regular everyday stainless pots versus one made for Dutch oven use.
I just casually passed by this video but I was so impressed with the evidence, and thereby your argument, that I watched the whole thing. I own a Cuisinart stainless steel dutch oven as part of a set, but I had only used it once or twice, because I am not a big cook. It has all the benefits you mentioned and you encouraged me to use it more often.
I agree. I haven't touched my enameled CI dutch oven (Lodge brand) since I received my Demeyere Atlantis model, which is the same size as yours. I cook on induction mostly and use it for soups, braises and boiling pasta. I might use the Lodge if I had something going in the oven but for stove top uses, the Demeyere is superior.
If you threw the cast iron Dutch oven in the oven before cooking up tops you’d get better results with it. Your overall point is still valid the stainless steel would still probably be more even and if nothing else not need an extra step.
@@mq46312 I do it with skillets for searing steak and such for evenness. But I’m also a fan of cast iron cooking so our little niche does go alittle above and beyond in a way that people in general aren’t going to. Also I won’t do it in the summer because I don’t want to heat the house up more. Good video though definitely enjoyed it and made me look at my stainless steel Dutch oven alittle more yesterday if I’m honest lol.
I was on the fence between All Clad SD8 8-quart ($350) and the Le Crueset 7.25-quart ($400). I owned a Staub Coccotte before and as a man, I thought it was very heavy. I wonder how do these women easily lug them around like a sack of cotton. Sadly, my beautiful Staub's black enamel chipped, which was what happened to others, eventhough I always went above and beyond in caring for it. I will never buy Staub again. The black enamel could chip even if you put oil on it. This video helped me choose the All Clad. I will be using the pot for soups and braising meat.
Thanks so much for doing these experiments and making this video, it is definitely eyes opening! This is more accurate than reviews from America's test kitchen, or Serious eats. I'd be very curious to know if you have any opinion on carbon steel, when it comes to frying pans. I suspect you'd come to the same conclusions, and rather recommend stainless steel. Similarly to cast iron, the argument is that searing is better on carbon steel, mostly because of the lower emissivity with respect to steel.
If you have an electric flat-top or induction, then I would recommend stainless steel. At least from my experience I find that carbon steel or cast iron don't tend to distribute heat well on electric/induction. If you have a gas cooktop, then carbon steel or cast iron would work great.
@@mq46312 I have induction. Your video was indeed very persuasive, a good quality, think stainless steel + alloy guarantees same or more heat retention, but with a more uniform heat distribution and less maintenance/cleaning issues. The only reason why I am still pondering whether to use carbon steel for searing, is that I've read that it has a higher emissivity compared to steel, which means it has a higher tendency to expel a lot of heat energy from its surface in the form of radiation. I am not sure what the physics say about it, I wanted to test it myself if it holds true. So if that's true, with steel the food directly in contact with the pan is receiving most of the heat, while carbon steel also cooks food that is not directly in touch, and thus I would expect a more uniform searing on meat. Adding formulas and a scientific explanation to your videos is definitely a big plus for me, thanks!
That's true, but I think the combination of the 2mm copper, 2x very thin silver layers, and the 3x layers of SS alloy results in slower heating. I used the exact same hob at the same setting for the Atlantis and the Le Creuset. For a Casserole or Dutch Oven you actually don't want it to heat up or cool down too fast, which is not desirable for searing/slow-cooking. If you look at my other video, the Atlantis and the Apollo heats up at almost the same rate. The Apollo has a 5mm 7-layer aluminium disk, without copper. As mentioned in the video I think the Apollo is the "best bang for buck". I don't think the copper layer is necessary. I'll rather have a thicker aluminium layer.
I think the point is more to haven even heating. Induction, for which these pots have been built, can heat unevenly, and copper can counteract that. You can even have a 24cm saute pan on a 21cm electric stove and have a nearly even heat on the entire bottom, which is amazing.
On paper it makes sense. However, I have both but somehow for things that end up cooking slow in the oven the enameled cast iron still works better (taste and aroma). For stove top cooking the Demeyere or any good clad is better than cast iron simply because of better heat distribution. There is something dynamic happening maybe the few minutes when you place in the oven or less likely when you take out. The thermal dynamic curves for enameled cast iron and clad stainless steel (or any pot) maybe the same once in the oven for a while but at the beginning and at the end something is different. It could be the herbs at the beginning how they release flavors and aroma -there is a window maybe. Maybe the stainless steel curve at the first few minutes entering the oven is different and ruining things a bit (yes I can taste and smell the difference and experimented with both). No offense but once scientists try to explain cooking they ruin the meal lol. Use the right pot for the right job and don't be afraid to experiment. No matter what I try searing meat with, regular cast iron gives the best results period (look, aroma and taste -yes we are eating some iron). French omlete is best done with nonstick pan at low heat period (forget about what is healthier). Vegetables sautéed on carbon steel wok with extreme flame (can't do at home on stove top) are the best sautéed vegetables period. Carmalizing onion other than on good stainless steel pan should be a federal offense. Making sauce with a suaceir is more efficient than a "suace pan" and so on. I really am some kind of scientist but obviously not a good one when it comes to cooking. I try to use science to simplify my life in cooking but for most part I leave it out of the kitchen.
Cast iron is never expected to use in something electric, the beauty of the iron is to acumúlate a ton of heat from the fire and keep the temperatura pretty estable even if the food is cold.
Thats BS. Cast iron is used on all kinds of heat. What you are actually seeing is an unusual stainless pot with 7 layers including copper. Plus cast iron often heats unevenly even the high end stuff.
I have all clad pots and they work on induction plate but I noticed sometimes it has a hot spot in the middle. Do you think these could warp? I have regular electric glass top.
Anything can warp if abused. Make sure that the size of you hob matches the bottom diameter of the pan as closely as possible, and don't blast it on the highest heat setting, especially if your pan is bigger than the hob. It sounds like your hob might be smaller than the pan, try a lower heat setting when heating up the pan.
Also a concern is that you should not use olive oil in the Atlantis (according to the instructions) which will cause staining issues. So I have both the Atlantis Dutch oven and a Made In Cookware enameled cast iron Dutch oven depending on what I want to cook.
I'm not aware of any concerns using olive oil with stainless steel cookware. I cook with it all the time! I wonder if the instructions may have been warning about cooking a low smoke-point oil (like EVOO) in a very hot pan, which can lead to smoking and surface stains. You'll want a high smoke-point oil for high heat tasks. If you do encounter staining though, Bar Keeper's Friend can usually get that out.
so on gas it doesnt really matter? would the Enameled be better for gas simply because of the wider cooking surface for searing for the same volume dutch oven? i really wonder what the heating would be like on gas the differences in temperature. but i never understood how u sear in Enameled anyways.... arnt u supposed to not preheat Enameled? if so, how would u sear anything.... baking bread also comes to mind for Enameled use that stainless cant.
Don't pre-heat enameled dry. On a gas flame both would work well because gas has more "power" typically than electric. This reduces the demand for the bottom of the pan to store more heat.
At 11:50 you said the added thermal mass is going to make a …. Difference. What type of difference does it make? I couldn’t understand the word used. It sounded to me either like: A noticeable difference or a negligible difference? Sorry, I couldn’t understand. Thanks for the video!
I don't think you can compare a cast iron dutch oven to a stainless steel pot. The principle of the Dutch Oven (in the case of the gas or electric oven) is that the heat is applied evenly to the interior from all sides, with the Atlantis pot the heat is distributed evenly from the bottom, but the thin stainless steel walls and the lid probably let more heat in, which can result in dishes being great on the bottom and burned on top
The heat is applied evenly in an oven from all sides anyway, regardless of whatever container your food is in. That said, nothing distributes heat worse than cast iron, so if you heating was uneven, the cast iron would mirror that.
@@TM-ng2bz While that's definitely true with baking, a majority of recipes one would use a Dutch Oven for involve liquids (stews, braises, etc.), which is a situation where I wouldn't expect this to be a factor -- the heat capacity / thermal mass of the water in the vessel will, in most cases, be so large that it effectively washes out whatever additional contribution is made from cast iron or stainless steel.
which would you choose between a Le Creuset 8qt Oval Dutch oven vs a Demeyere Atlantis 8.9 qt dutch oven? Just performance wise not price. Thanks for al the insight!
@@jacquelynbaldeongaro1535 No that's quite standard for disc-bottom pans. All-Clad is fully cladded but you can't compare them directly. High end disc-bottom pans like the Atlantis have a much thicker base.
Great review! It actually helped me decide between the 2. I have cast iron cookware and stainless steel. The stainless steel cookware is a much more pleasurable experience and less maintenance. Plus the weight of cast iron is an issue. I need something to make soups in and was trying to figure out which choice would be more practical from a day to day use stand point and this video really helped solidify my gut feeling on the topic. Thanks for the content! Cheers!
Dutch ovens made from cast iron are really great for baking bread in and/or braising in the oven. Those are really the only applications i can think of that would warrant that weight difference compared to a good multi-ply stainless steel vessel (bread-baking moreso than oven braising).
Interesting. I already have a le creuset piece (6.75 qt wide round), but I was considering getting a 5.5 qt round oven too or possibly that Demeyere pot. Honestly, I was afraid I’d have to buy both, because I didn’t think the stainless steel would hold up as far as stews were concerned, but at the same time I didn’t want to lug out a Dutch oven just to boil water for pasta. Thanks for your video! Now I can save some serious cash and confidently go with the Demeyere!
Thank you, THANK YOU for doing this. My stove is electric coil (cheap rent apartment), and I almost made the mistake of buying an enameled dutch oven if it weren't for your video!
@@lars2894 welcome. Unfortunately those coils don't work well for any kind of pan.
It's a shame this channel has so few subscribers! This video in particular is excellent, with the scientific reasoning behind the arguments. Very nice, thank you!
Thanks! I don't bother asking people to subscribe etc.... I care more about giving people good and useful information.
Why fix what ain't broken? This channel is thoroughly reviewing what actually matters, which makes it a rare gem.
Thank you for answering my question. These videos are gold, I hope more people take notice of the quality of information that you put out there
Glad you are finding the videos helpful!
Another (occasionally) significant advantage of the stainless steel Dutch oven relates to the lip on it's rim that allows it to pour cleanly. There are a number of classic recipes that include a step where you'd want to strain liquid through a sieve before completing a sauce to ensure the final result is smooth -- this is easy to do with the pouring rim of the SS vessel, but always a somewhat messy endeavour using enameled cast iron pieces. Small point perhaps, but a source of mild frustration for me when I try to do this with my Le Creuset.
One advantage for enameled cast iron: it's additionally useful for bread baking. Not sure you could do the same thing in a stainless steel vessel (although please correct me if I'm wrong).
Very good point about the pouring. Indeed easier with a SS pan.
Enameled cast iron is more suitable for serving than stainless steel. It remains hot for a long time and looks amazing on the table.
Idk, I think stainless steel is beautiful. Also, I think there's a big difference between our regular everyday stainless pots versus one made for Dutch oven use.
I just casually passed by this video but I was so impressed with the evidence, and thereby your argument, that I watched the whole thing. I own a Cuisinart stainless steel dutch oven as part of a set, but I had only used it once or twice, because I am not a big cook. It has all the benefits you mentioned and you encouraged me to use it more often.
What a beautifully designed steel dutch oven; good to know the bottom is layed with aluminum--perfectly balanced heating. Well done, demo.
I agree. I haven't touched my enameled CI dutch oven (Lodge brand) since I received my Demeyere Atlantis model, which is the same size as yours. I cook on induction mostly and use it for soups, braises and boiling pasta. I might use the Lodge if I had something going in the oven but for stove top uses, the Demeyere is superior.
If you threw the cast iron Dutch oven in the oven before cooking up tops you’d get better results with it. Your overall point is still valid the stainless steel would still probably be more even and if nothing else not need an extra step.
True but I can't imagine anyone would bother with that extra step.
@@mq46312 I do it with skillets for searing steak and such for evenness. But I’m also a fan of cast iron cooking so our little niche does go alittle above and beyond in a way that people in general aren’t going to. Also I won’t do it in the summer because I don’t want to heat the house up more. Good video though definitely enjoyed it and made me look at my stainless steel Dutch oven alittle more yesterday if I’m honest lol.
Very informative topic thanks a lot.
Thank you!
I was on the fence between All Clad SD8 8-quart ($350) and the Le Crueset 7.25-quart ($400). I owned a Staub Coccotte before and as a man, I thought it was very heavy. I wonder how do these women easily lug them around like a sack of cotton.
Sadly, my beautiful Staub's black enamel chipped, which was what happened to others, eventhough I always went above and beyond in caring for it.
I will never buy Staub again. The black enamel could chip even if you put oil on it.
This video helped me choose the All Clad. I will be using the pot for soups and braising meat.
Thanks so much for doing these experiments and making this video, it is definitely eyes opening! This is more accurate than reviews from America's test kitchen, or Serious eats. I'd be very curious to know if you have any opinion on carbon steel, when it comes to frying pans. I suspect you'd come to the same conclusions, and rather recommend stainless steel. Similarly to cast iron, the argument is that searing is better on carbon steel, mostly because of the lower emissivity with respect to steel.
If you have an electric flat-top or induction, then I would recommend stainless steel. At least from my experience I find that carbon steel or cast iron don't tend to distribute heat well on electric/induction. If you have a gas cooktop, then carbon steel or cast iron would work great.
@@mq46312 I have induction. Your video was indeed very persuasive, a good quality, think stainless steel + alloy guarantees same or more heat retention, but with a more uniform heat distribution and less maintenance/cleaning issues. The only reason why I am still pondering whether to use carbon steel for searing, is that I've read that it has a higher emissivity compared to steel, which means it has a higher tendency to expel a lot of heat energy from its surface in the form of radiation. I am not sure what the physics say about it, I wanted to test it myself if it holds true. So if that's true, with steel the food directly in contact with the pan is receiving most of the heat, while carbon steel also cooks food that is not directly in touch, and thus I would expect a more uniform searing on meat. Adding formulas and a scientific explanation to your videos is definitely a big plus for me, thanks!
Great info, Thanks! I just bought an all clad 8 quart copper core Dutch oven on sale.
Enjoy it! In Europe All-Clad is not obtainable at reasonable prices :(
Thank you so much for making these videos !
BTW the Atlantis doesn't have any aluminium... it has stainless steel, copper and silver.
@@bintellreg4535 Yes you are right. I got mixed up thinking it had a or two layer of aluminium alloy. It's three layers of stainless alloy.
2022-02-02 Do you know where they get all the iron from to make the Le Creuset pans?
I assume it's all recycled. I remember watching a clip on UA-cam about it.
@@mq46312 And do you know, from where or what all the recycled irons came from? Thank you in advance
5:07 Wait but isn't the point of having copper in the base to have a fast heat up?
That's true, but I think the combination of the 2mm copper, 2x very thin silver layers, and the 3x layers of SS alloy results in slower heating. I used the exact same hob at the same setting for the Atlantis and the Le Creuset. For a Casserole or Dutch Oven you actually don't want it to heat up or cool down too fast, which is not desirable for searing/slow-cooking. If you look at my other video, the Atlantis and the Apollo heats up at almost the same rate. The Apollo has a 5mm 7-layer aluminium disk, without copper. As mentioned in the video I think the Apollo is the "best bang for buck". I don't think the copper layer is necessary. I'll rather have a thicker aluminium layer.
I think the point is more to haven even heating. Induction, for which these pots have been built, can heat unevenly, and copper can counteract that. You can even have a 24cm saute pan on a 21cm electric stove and have a nearly even heat on the entire bottom, which is amazing.
On paper it makes sense. However, I have both but somehow for things that end up cooking slow in the oven the enameled cast iron still works better (taste and aroma). For stove top cooking the Demeyere or any good clad is better than cast iron simply because of better heat distribution. There is something dynamic happening maybe the few minutes when you place in the oven or less likely when you take out. The thermal dynamic curves for enameled cast iron and clad stainless steel (or any pot) maybe the same once in the oven for a while but at the beginning and at the end something is different. It could be the herbs at the beginning how they release flavors and aroma -there is a window maybe. Maybe the stainless steel curve at the first few minutes entering the oven is different and ruining things a bit (yes I can taste and smell the difference and experimented with both). No offense but once scientists try to explain cooking they ruin the meal lol. Use the right pot for the right job and don't be afraid to experiment. No matter what I try searing meat with, regular cast iron gives the best results period (look, aroma and taste -yes we are eating some iron). French omlete is best done with nonstick pan at low heat period (forget about what is healthier). Vegetables sautéed on carbon steel wok with extreme flame (can't do at home on stove top) are the best sautéed vegetables period. Carmalizing onion other than on good stainless steel pan should be a federal offense. Making sauce with a suaceir is more efficient than a "suace pan" and so on. I really am some kind of scientist but obviously not a good one when it comes to cooking. I try to use science to simplify my life in cooking but for most part I leave it out of the kitchen.
Cast iron is never expected to use in something electric, the beauty of the iron is to acumúlate a ton of heat from the fire and keep the temperatura pretty estable even if the food is cold.
Thats BS. Cast iron is used on all kinds of heat. What you are actually seeing is an unusual stainless pot with 7 layers including copper. Plus cast iron often heats unevenly even the high end stuff.
Bullshit. I have used cast iron on my electric stove and in my electric oven for 15 years.
I have all clad pots and they work on induction plate but I noticed sometimes it has a hot spot in the middle. Do you think these could warp? I have regular electric glass top.
Anything can warp if abused. Make sure that the size of you hob matches the bottom diameter of the pan as closely as possible, and don't blast it on the highest heat setting, especially if your pan is bigger than the hob. It sounds like your hob might be smaller than the pan, try a lower heat setting when heating up the pan.
Also a concern is that you should not use olive oil in the Atlantis (according to the instructions) which will cause staining issues. So I have both the Atlantis Dutch oven and a Made In Cookware enameled cast iron Dutch oven depending on what I want to cook.
I'm not aware of any concerns using olive oil with stainless steel cookware. I cook with it all the time!
I wonder if the instructions may have been warning about cooking a low smoke-point oil (like EVOO) in a very hot pan, which can lead to smoking and surface stains. You'll want a high smoke-point oil for high heat tasks. If you do encounter staining though, Bar Keeper's Friend can usually get that out.
so on gas it doesnt really matter? would the Enameled be better for gas simply because of the wider cooking surface for searing for the same volume dutch oven? i really wonder what the heating would be like on gas the differences in temperature. but i never understood how u sear in Enameled anyways.... arnt u supposed to not preheat Enameled? if so, how would u sear anything.... baking bread also comes to mind for Enameled use that stainless cant.
Don't pre-heat enameled dry. On a gas flame both would work well because gas has more "power" typically than electric. This reduces the demand for the bottom of the pan to store more heat.
Great video, man.
Thanks!
At 11:50 you said the added thermal mass is going to make a …. Difference. What type of difference does it make? I couldn’t understand the word used. It sounded to me either like: A noticeable difference or a negligible difference? Sorry, I couldn’t understand. Thanks for the video!
Negligible :)
Have you tried braising in both to compare results?
Same good results but I find the SS sears better on my flat-top.
I don't think you can compare a cast iron dutch oven to a stainless steel pot. The principle of the Dutch Oven (in the case of the gas or electric oven) is that the heat is applied evenly to the interior from all sides, with the Atlantis pot the heat is distributed evenly from the bottom, but the thin stainless steel walls and the lid probably let more heat in, which can result in dishes being great on the bottom and burned on top
The heat is applied evenly in an oven from all sides anyway, regardless of whatever container your food is in. That said, nothing distributes heat worse than cast iron, so if you heating was uneven, the cast iron would mirror that.
So you didn't watch the video where he measured this but commented anyway. Got it.
@@lgolem09l This isn't true though. In baking at least the material of the oven dish has a big difference on which parts get more heat
@@TM-ng2bz While that's definitely true with baking, a majority of recipes one would use a Dutch Oven for involve liquids (stews, braises, etc.), which is a situation where I wouldn't expect this to be a factor -- the heat capacity / thermal mass of the water in the vessel will, in most cases, be so large that it effectively washes out whatever additional contribution is made from cast iron or stainless steel.
@@michaelsegal7440 They are also very often used for making bread for example. It's a versatile dish
which would you choose between a Le Creuset 8qt Oval Dutch oven vs a Demeyere Atlantis 8.9 qt dutch oven? Just performance wise not price. Thanks for al the insight!
Easy. Demeyere.
@@mq46312 even on a natural gas fired stove/oven application?
also why dont you regard your Fissler and smaller Atlantis as redundant? They are very similar sizes and both disc bottom pans.
@@vinsa518 ON a gas stove both will work well. Gas has more power and gives you better heat distribution.
@@vinsa518 Sorry not sure what you mean?
Give a try to cristel (french brand), it has one of the thickest aluminium system
Do you know how thick the walls is the Demeyere Atlantis is?
0.8mm I think, but not more than 1mm
@@mq46312 is that considered thin? My AC is 3 mm walls but also it’s cladded everywhere. So the weight is fully due to the base then it seems.
@@jacquelynbaldeongaro1535 No that's quite standard for disc-bottom pans. All-Clad is fully cladded but you can't compare them directly. High end disc-bottom pans like the Atlantis have a much thicker base.
What works on electric or induction can be lousy on gas. The sides of that stainless Dutch oven will be significantly hotter than the bottom.
If the flame can't wrap around the sides then it shouldn't be a problem.
Pressure cookers are great value for money. Just switch the lid for something normal - cheap and excellent quality pots.
For stovetop slow cooking terracotta and soap stone are way better than cast iron and anything else
Dutch oven? It's a normal albeit big, pot. A DO has a flat lid you can put coal or wood on.
Great review! It actually helped me decide between the 2. I have cast iron cookware and stainless steel. The stainless steel cookware is a much more pleasurable experience and less maintenance. Plus the weight of cast iron is an issue. I need something to make soups in and was trying to figure out which choice would be more practical from a day to day use stand point and this video really helped solidify my gut feeling on the topic. Thanks for the content! Cheers!
Dutch ovens made from cast iron are really great for baking bread in and/or braising in the oven. Those are really the only applications i can think of that would warrant that weight difference compared to a good multi-ply stainless steel vessel (bread-baking moreso than oven braising).