Great video. Great to see the small varied references to setting up Batrium hardware/software. I need to watch all your videos, and extract these procedural snippets involving settings and things that Batrium Doco has never covered well in my view.
Clear and concise. Great Job. I had the same experience with Shenzhen Basen Technology Co. They decided to push me towards CATL 302AH. Told me they just received the custom BMS they ordered for me. Then informed me the EVE 304AH were out of stock. And I needed to add 23 dollars per cell for new battery. After more trickery on their side I requested them to cancel order. More back and forth, getting toward nasty I finally canceled the Paid for order. Cost me 150. In fees but after I canceled they got nice again and tried more Tom Foolery. Now that the cash has finally hit my account I will just buy the EVE cells from Eve Energy Co., Ltd. While they are more expensive, but they are the manufacturer, so I feel their will be less shenanigans.
I did the same, they are a bit more expensive. however you will know that they come directly from the factory, just makes you sleep better knowing that.
Another great video!, 🥰🥰 First there is the subject matter at hand, Batteries. Then there is the video end. That involves the filming, editing, script, etc …📝📝📹🖥 Then reading Comments🤣🤣
Very well done. I think I will be building a similar pack for my upcoming solar installation, using the same BMS you're using for this one. I love the idea of a BMS that doesn't require the FETs that a lot of them use, simply because that makes building the higher current output stuff like the 280-560 AH packs a lot more complex than it needs to be, in my opinion.
i appreciate your videos. the thoughtful approach to how you handle information is how i operate, and i often reference your content for my own projects. now its time for you to get into e-bikes, if you havent already lol, thats my next hobby
I just love your videos please keep posting them. I have been investigating lithium iron phosphate, I find them not very good for beginners. I love them but temperature varies where I'm at so I will stay clear of them for now. The balancing process is a little worrisome.
I've watched several Battery Build YT videos and cell balancing always seems to be under appreciated as a NECESSARY CONTINUOUS process. With 32 large cells even small deviations of internal resistance and self discharge properties will lead to rather large imbalances. Most BMS modules have either NO balancing capability or low current, passive type balancing which only occurs above some threshold value of say 3.5V. So in this case, 16S-2P, you are talking about a 560Ah cell. There is no way that 500ma is going to keep those cells balanced when operating only during the time the first cell hits 3.5V until the system reaches full charge. In this video it was mentioned that an extended float was used to allow time for top balancing but that is not always the case. There is an easy solution. Get an active balancer module with Bluetooth. This type of balancing works continuously throughout the Chg/Discharge cycle by extracting power from the high cells and transferring to the low cells so there is minimal energy loss. Last time I checked JK BMS has 1, 2, 5 and 10A balancers available. I am using a 2A version on one of my 48V batteries and have both the 5A & 10A version for my next larger battery. This product costs more than some of the alternatives on ebay Etc. but those do not have any communications or user defined settings.
balancing under 3.4V can unbalance the battery. now, about that 500mA balancing, yes looks a bit small but it will do it every day, well most days anyway.
Yes, this method of balancing is the best. The cells that are always too high when charging and too low when discharging need to be replaced so the active balancer won't be wasting energy all the time.
If he is running the pack within a normal operating voltage range, there will never be a visible spread. Hope he is going to set the balancing threshold well outside that range and the cells are not getting a self induced imbalance :))
I congratulate you for the video, I have a question those batteries for how long do you program your charger in the adsord method? how long do you leave it?
You do such a superb job on your videos that the only reason I can figure out why anyone would give you a thumbs down is because their own life is so miserable, they want it castigated to others. They just don't understand that it doesn't work. So, to the poor miserable one that now received the attention you onerously desire, I pray for your pitiful soul. Great job once again on your video!
Though I am sure you are the kind of person who is just fine and comfortable with poor shaming people. That which has been given opportunity in your life by society's support and attention and surely has some caustic cause they have held to, to achieve your means.
Anyone who give a thumb down belong to the fossil industry which monopolize the energy to the expense of health and life of the people they enslave. What could be more expensive than the destruction of this planet through drilling and pollution of the earth and atmosphere?
So what is the final output of this bank? 56x AH @ 12.x amps? Pretty new to the stuff but always like making the comparison in that way as thats how most van/mobile solar banks are referenced. Great video
This battery bank is 560Ah at 51.2V (nominal) which gives a power storage capacity of 560*51.2 = 28,672Wh. If you're asking what this would be in a 12V configuration, there are 32 batteries here / 4 series (12.8V nominal) would give 2240Ah at 12.8V.
@@LithiumSolar Thanks for the reply -- do you know what voltage most people in van builds have their battery banks configured at? I believe I usually hear it as XAH @ typically 12.xVolts. I bet the system you made would do well in a van build even with a mini split AC. Will browse more of your videos!
Congratulations, on your good work so far! What's your plan for the working capacity on daily usage, %? Are your planing to charge the cells to 3.5v and balance them every time or just occasionally? Early questions but maybe you already got an answer planed in your head.
I'm thinking of having the chargers cut out around 3.5V. I don't see any point in going higher than that really as there is very little stored capacity above 3.5V. I might even drop it to 3.45, not entirely sure yet. I'll have to see how exactly they perform once they're connected to my solar setup.
Nice test but I don't know if you said how long it took to bring the batteries down or how long they lasted or not I didn't catch it so if you didn't how long did it last pull in those 3,000 Watts
Oh okay you was talking about you went through and tightened every single one of them and I'm looking at the video and I'm like oh you didn't do that one at all but you got it
Thanks for the video. That's really a battery monitor, not BMS. Lacking the ability to cut power means it cannot protect the battery from overcharge (as you said), over-discharge, overcurrent, low temp - all very important functions of a BMS.
You're correct that, as shown here, it is simply monitoring the battery. At the same time, you're very wrong. Just because it doesn't have a gigantic lump of FETs on it doesn't mean it's not a BMS. In upcoming videos, I will be showing how to configure it to directly control the inverter on/off, the charge controller on/off, and a coil-trip circuit breaker to address all points that you've mentioned - and more. Not all BMS are big piles of FETs ;)
@@LithiumSolar Thank you for the response. Look forward to your future videos. You're right, a traditional BMS that supports 1C would be rated at 280A. That's a lot of FETs, heatsinks and fans.
Back to the basics please, how does a grid-tie battery bank work with a home? not asking how to do it cause that's a liability but the concept. does that mean you must have a critical loads panel or turn off the main breaker? I would love a video on that discussion
You would need to use a hybrid inverter for a grid-tie with batteries. The inverter would monitor load and produce just enough AC power to power the loads and avoid back feeding. I have never worked with grid-tie and typically avoid them due to the complex permitting and requirements needed to connect to the power grid.
Might you share a video on bus bar sizing and why you went with the torque specs you chose?? Much appreciated videos covering your journey to energy independence!! ☺️🙏 Thank you!
Hes actually a bit low with his 35 Lbs In, that equals to just under 4 Nm. Aluminum screws have a nominal torque rating of 5.6 and thats for M6 4.8 Nm. But he used stainless bolts, and if the bolts are more than 7 rotations in the AL terminal ( mine had about 10, if I recall correctly) he should have used the torque for stainless steel (6.8) and M6 and that's 7.7 Nm. But since hes not pulling more than 0,1C it will ot matter. I pull about 0.6C with 2 10kw 400V 50Hz inverters and do have torqued it to 7.7Nm and I also did use custom laser cut aluminum bus bars. The size depends on how much amps your drawing. Pure copper is bad, always use coated coper or aluminum. Calculating it is like the wires you would use, but then, you don't want warm bus bars as they heat your battery through the terminals while luke warme cables are not nice but acceptable. So I just went with 1000a for finding my size. Cheers. I have to say, he did a fairly good job here, compared to so many other DIY guys ignoring all safety procedures. Thanks man, good job.
@@mannebk9978 interesting personally i just torque by feel. and even if you torque them correctly to specs. next day they will be lose again. and don't forget that stainless steel bolt goes into an aluminium thread.
indeed I said with more than 7 rotations in, one should not use aluminum terminal spec but stainless bolt spec. and no sir, mine have not come loose again, but I did retorque the bolts after a few cycles, but had no surprises there. If yours have come loose you may have used wrong torque or hardware, you don't go into detail, so I cant offer advice, except to say, if done by the book, it works just fine
The BMS will communicate directly with my charge controllers and inverters to turn them on/off. That's the way a BMS should work in my opinion. A FET-based approach works in small batteries but is far from optimal for a large storage system.
I have a question to the presenter or who ever reads this: How do older makita batteries balance? These are Lithium Ion, but only have a lead going from furthest negative side cell. Other cells do not have any connections. From newer videos of makita battery internals I can see all the leads coming in, but about older batteries, it puzzles me. I can only assume, that they self balance like lead acid batteries.
@@varer Protection Circuit Module Board For Makita Replacement Battery PCB Li-ion 18V, Battery PCB Chip Board For Makita 18V bl1830 bl1840 bl1850 Yes it has a resistor to balance the cells. But some have a calculation between the high and low voltages of two groups.
JK BMS has 2 amp balancing at 48vdc. That means it can handle the big 280AH EVE batteries. remember if you want these batteries to last longest find the sweet spots. you can use 90% of battery doing this and get 40 years plus if you have 4 banks charging at .2C and discharging at .2C which is 56 amps in and out each pack (56x4x48 is over 10kw). that is why you want 2 packs instead of 1 as saving couple hundred dollars on a BMS so you can double the cells is actually killing the life. also squeezing them together causes more heat which kills life cycles. go watch off grid garage and he shows you all of this in more detail. fast charge/discharge of 1C caused to much stress in the cells. .2 - .1C with 4 banks can put out at 160 amps (40 amps per pack) over 7000 watts. My house averages around 3kw per hour which is less than .1c with 4 banks.. These should last around 40 plus years if I keep them at 70 degrees F. If you are building batteries for a garage to run welders go with EVE cells and have 4-6 banks of 16s. that way each one can give the high amps and not exceed .5C and still double their live cycles. I hope this makes since. divide the load and get a JK bms for each 16s pack as it pays for itself.
First the videos are superb! You are very thorough! Wow I have questions!!! Where do you get the vast sums of money that you need to do this? And I know it is none of my business. I ask because I have done the math to run my house on these battery/inverter/solar set up and the sum was quite substantial. Just an example if you have an inverter AC unit that has a start up in-rush of 1800 watts then stabilizes at 1200 watts running you have to allow for the in-rush current all the time in your build as the unit cycles. This is X2 in my house so I have 3600 watts at 220 volts giving me 17 amps of current needed from sun down - a couple hours and till sun up + a couple hours ( You know solar doesnt produce much from 8 am till maybe 10 am) the amp hours needed is phenomenal it seems ...
You would need a hybrid inverter to do a grid-tie setup with batteries. The inverter would manage generating just enough electricity to power your home and avoid back-feeding, when to switch to grid, etc. I have not worked with grid-tie due at all due to permitting requirements of grid-connected systems.
What's the max balance current that the BMS utilizes? Looks like a larger dedicated balancer might do you some good. That big pack has 28kwh in it, which is less energy than a gallon of gasoline....
It can get very loud when the fans kick in due to load or heat. Otherwise, it's just transformer hum, which isn't bad at all. The inverter itself though is great if you can overlook the high self-consumption.
Can you please show us the configuration you have the batteries in? I'm doing the same setup but don't have a clear diagram of the 16s2p pack configuration.
I need to build a 280Ah 16S battery for my sailboat. But i only have 4 locations for 4 cells each. All within 1m /3-4ft. Is that very bad? What if i take massive 2x70mm2 cables (tripple the size of the short busbars) to interconnect the 4 packs (serial). I use JK 16S BMS with 2A active balancers. What are your thoughts?
I am a bit confused... you said the anderson cables are rated for 175 amps, but when I checked the amazon listing it states 6 awg which is rated for only 50-70 amps ( depending on length ).
That connector is rated for 175 amps continuous. But the cable with 6 AWG is NOT! If they used high temperature silicone insulated wire it will handle more than 70 amps, but it will get hot.
Yes, I was referring to the connector. It's an Anderson SB175 or 175A-rated connector. I don't know the exact amp rating for the cabling used here. It's much higher than 50-70A though due to 200C silicone insulation.
@@arranpritchard9004 The powerstream paragraph on ampacity is informative. Note both of their maximums are "conservative" (which means you may be able to exceed them in some situations) but also application specific (may not be able to match them in some applications). I quite like the bluesea table, but note it is based on voltage drop. While I don't see it documented on that page, their typical application is specified for 12vdc power distribution and as such their 10% voltage drop limit is intended to maintain usability for a reasonable discharge depth on a 12v battery.
I manage Linux servers at my day job (mostly Redhat). I have a very strong appreciation for Linux but I still use Windows on my workstation and home computers.
@@LithiumSolar You are dead to me. Just kidding. I'm the opposite: I have to use winblows at work but I use linux at home. You manage linux servers for your day job? Wow, sounds like my dream job. I used to use FreeBSD to run many server daemons: httpd, pop3d, smtpd, opennap, ircd. Those were the days man. Anyway, great video and thanks for the response.
I have 16 of these that I intend to build into a bank for my house, What safety precautions have you put in place to deal with DC ArcFlash? This is a very serious hazard that should not be ignored?
this is a video to show the dangers of DC arcing and the potential for it t cause a thermal runaway situation of you battery pack which seems totally unprotected.
Yes, Batrium is compatible with LiFePO4. It always has been. I used the Watchmon CORE + K9 kit here. The K9 is the centralized cell monitor. It does not require cell mons (longmon, blockmon, leafmon, etc).
@@LithiumSolar back in days on the system was not need use balancer and this stuff. all need all cable need to be symitric and same long but the connection need to be asymmetric how are connect the main connections. I cam share a diagrams but is not possible here post link. please send a PM over email I do . have a nice days
the problems is related to the resistan of the system .. the resistan of the back need to be equal for path of - and + also start in asymmetric to get the same equal relative resistan in all cell.
@@random_name- you are not correct. there is exactly the same current no matter how "asymmetrical" the plus and minus wires are. if you have two battery banks, then you want to have the loops the same.
you are almost right, he got all cells symmetric. you confuse this with hooking two 12v acid batteries parallel, where this is very important. and with the lifepos it is important too, but only to build both parallel packs the same, and hes doing it perfectly, as he hase 3,3v in parallel and even paired them right when building the pack
Featured Products: (affiliate links)
EVE 280Ah… www.18650batterystore.com/products/eve-lf280k/?rfsn=7256878.31271b9 (US Distributor)
Batrium Watchmon+K9 Kit... www.batrium.com/discount/BATTERY?redirect=/products/watchmon-core-k9
Great video. Great to see the small varied references to setting up Batrium hardware/software. I need to watch all your videos, and extract these procedural snippets involving settings and things that Batrium Doco has never covered well in my view.
Clear and concise. Great Job. I had the same experience with Shenzhen Basen Technology Co. They decided to push me towards CATL 302AH. Told me they just received the custom BMS they ordered for me. Then informed me the EVE 304AH were out of stock. And I needed to add 23 dollars per cell for new battery. After more trickery on their side I requested them to cancel order. More back and forth, getting toward nasty I finally canceled the Paid for order. Cost me 150. In fees but after I canceled they got nice again and tried more Tom Foolery. Now that the cash has finally hit my account I will just buy the EVE cells from Eve Energy Co., Ltd. While they are more expensive, but they are the manufacturer, so I feel their will be less shenanigans.
yes that certainly looks like gazumping
I did the same, they are a bit more expensive. however you will know that they come directly from the factory, just makes you sleep better knowing that.
Thanks for sharing all your learnings, looking forward to the new battery reveal.
Your videos are so good.. detailed, precise, and an expression of your skill and competence. :) Thanks so much for all the effort you've put in!
Nobody does it better.
Another great video!, 🥰🥰
First there is the subject matter at hand, Batteries.
Then there is the video end. That involves the filming, editing, script, etc …📝📝📹🖥
Then reading Comments🤣🤣
Looking good. Keep up the awesome channel. Thanks for sharing.
Very well done. I think I will be building a similar pack for my upcoming solar installation, using the same BMS you're using for this one. I love the idea of a BMS that doesn't require the FETs that a lot of them use, simply because that makes building the higher current output stuff like the 280-560 AH packs a lot more complex than it needs to be, in my opinion.
Hi,please how name this BMS? This is just on PC? Or ist possible also using on android?
Thank U
Man I have the same battery size and configuration you do, waiting on my bms to arrive today to finally start working them
Very well built battery 🔋 pack!
i appreciate your videos. the thoughtful approach to how you handle information is how i operate, and i often reference your content for my own projects. now its time for you to get into e-bikes, if you havent already lol, thats my next hobby
I just love your videos please keep posting them. I have been investigating lithium iron phosphate, I find them not very good for beginners. I love them but temperature varies where I'm at so I will stay clear of them for now. The balancing process is a little worrisome.
Above capacity is always good news
great test, thank u for u knowledge, one of the best ive seen, like the way you strapped the batteries
I've watched several Battery Build YT videos and cell balancing always seems to be under appreciated as a NECESSARY CONTINUOUS process. With 32 large cells even small deviations of internal resistance and self discharge properties will lead to rather large imbalances. Most BMS modules have either NO balancing capability or low current, passive type balancing which only occurs above some threshold value of say 3.5V. So in this case, 16S-2P, you are talking about a 560Ah cell. There is no way that 500ma is going to keep those cells balanced when operating only during the time the first cell hits 3.5V until the system reaches full charge. In this video it was mentioned that an extended float was used to allow time for top balancing but that is not always the case. There is an easy solution. Get an active balancer module with Bluetooth. This type of balancing works continuously throughout the Chg/Discharge cycle by extracting power from the high cells and transferring to the low cells so there is minimal energy loss. Last time I checked JK BMS has 1, 2, 5 and 10A balancers available. I am using a 2A version on one of my 48V batteries and have both the 5A & 10A version for my next larger battery. This product costs more than some of the alternatives on ebay Etc. but those do not have any communications or user defined settings.
balancing under 3.4V can unbalance the battery. now, about that 500mA balancing, yes looks a bit small but it will do it every day, well most days anyway.
Yes, this method of balancing is the best. The cells that are always too high when charging and too low when discharging need to be replaced so the active balancer won't be wasting energy all the time.
can you show a good picture or drawing of how you have your cell bank put together with the bus bars?
(you missed it ;-) Look here: ua-cam.com/video/m0Z25-jqLrs/v-deo.html
No surprises, so now after some use I hope you will show the spread
If he is running the pack within a normal operating voltage range, there will never be a visible spread. Hope he is going to set the balancing threshold well outside that range and the cells are not getting a self induced imbalance :))
@@RolandW_DIYEnergyandMore so true just take what the bank is willing to give you lol.
Sure, we'll revisit this next year and see how well they have held up!
The Batrium BMS was a bit confusing for me. They need a DIY for dummies so I went with the Overkill 16s BMS. Have not hooked it up to my cells yet.
You can do the same thing with a raspberry pi and Grafana for thousands less
@@danfitzpatrick4112 That would be hard as the Batrium doesn’t cost “thousands”. I think it’s about $US500 for the config Lithium Solar bought.
@@mondotv4216 Yeah, because 0.5 thousand is a good deal for a BMS.
I congratulate you for the video, I have a question those batteries for how long do you program your charger in the adsord method? how long do you leave it?
You do such a superb job on your videos that the only reason I can figure out why anyone would give you a thumbs down is because their own life is so miserable, they want it castigated to others. They just don't understand that it doesn't work. So, to the poor miserable one that now received the attention you onerously desire, I pray for your pitiful soul. Great job once again on your video!
Hello I am one of those miserable people who look at the price tag of all of this and thumbs down the whole thing.
How are you?
Though I am sure you are the kind of person who is just fine and comfortable with poor shaming people.
That which has been given opportunity in your life by society's support and attention and surely has some caustic cause they have held to, to achieve your means.
@@bravojr It's far better to remain silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubts!
Anyone who give a thumb down belong to the fossil industry which monopolize the energy to the expense of health and life of the people they enslave. What could be more expensive than the destruction of this planet through drilling and pollution of the earth and atmosphere?
So what is the final output of this bank? 56x AH @ 12.x amps? Pretty new to the stuff but always like making the comparison in that way as thats how most van/mobile solar banks are referenced. Great video
This battery bank is 560Ah at 51.2V (nominal) which gives a power storage capacity of 560*51.2 = 28,672Wh. If you're asking what this would be in a 12V configuration, there are 32 batteries here / 4 series (12.8V nominal) would give 2240Ah at 12.8V.
@@LithiumSolar Thanks for the reply -- do you know what voltage most people in van builds have their battery banks configured at? I believe I usually hear it as XAH @ typically 12.xVolts. I bet the system you made would do well in a van build even with a mini split AC. Will browse more of your videos!
@@dividendbro6362 It will be about the same capacity but the 48v system is more efficient, need lower resistance cable and have less heat dissipation.
Congratulations, on your good work so far!
What's your plan for the working capacity on daily usage, %?
Are your planing to charge the cells to 3.5v and balance them every time or just occasionally?
Early questions but maybe you already got an answer planed in your head.
I'm thinking of having the chargers cut out around 3.5V. I don't see any point in going higher than that really as there is very little stored capacity above 3.5V. I might even drop it to 3.45, not entirely sure yet. I'll have to see how exactly they perform once they're connected to my solar setup.
The voltage depends of how much solar power is charging the batteries to give time for absorption and floating stages.
Nice test but I don't know if you said how long it took to bring the batteries down or how long they lasted or not I didn't catch it so if you didn't how long did it last pull in those 3,000 Watts
28000Wh / 3000W = 9.3 hours
@@LithiumSolar thank you
Oh okay you was talking about you went through and tightened every single one of them and I'm looking at the video and I'm like oh you didn't do that one at all but you got it
Thanks for the video. That's really a battery monitor, not BMS. Lacking the ability to cut power means it cannot protect the battery from overcharge (as you said), over-discharge, overcurrent, low temp - all very important functions of a BMS.
You're correct that, as shown here, it is simply monitoring the battery. At the same time, you're very wrong. Just because it doesn't have a gigantic lump of FETs on it doesn't mean it's not a BMS. In upcoming videos, I will be showing how to configure it to directly control the inverter on/off, the charge controller on/off, and a coil-trip circuit breaker to address all points that you've mentioned - and more. Not all BMS are big piles of FETs ;)
@@LithiumSolar Thank you for the response. Look forward to your future videos. You're right, a traditional BMS that supports 1C would be rated at 280A. That's a lot of FETs, heatsinks and fans.
Back to the basics please, how does a grid-tie battery bank work with a home? not asking how to do it cause that's a liability but the concept. does that mean you must have a critical loads panel or turn off the main breaker? I would love a video on that discussion
You would need to use a hybrid inverter for a grid-tie with batteries. The inverter would monitor load and produce just enough AC power to power the loads and avoid back feeding. I have never worked with grid-tie and typically avoid them due to the complex permitting and requirements needed to connect to the power grid.
very professional .the Batrium LCD looks great.i have a question, what devide do you use for balancing the cells?
Once you recharged them - I assume the max cell difference smoothed out again or did you do some more balancing? Thanks for another great video!
I haven't full charged them again yet. I doubt I'll put them back to 3.65V though. I might cut charging around 3.50V - haven't decided exactly yet.
Yes Akb🔋🔋🔋 👍
Might you share a video on bus bar sizing and why you went with the torque specs you chose?? Much appreciated videos covering your journey to energy independence!! ☺️🙏 Thank you!
torque specs are the specs that should come with the battery etc.
Hes actually a bit low with his 35 Lbs In, that equals to just under 4 Nm. Aluminum screws have a nominal torque rating of 5.6 and thats for M6 4.8 Nm. But he used stainless bolts, and if the bolts are more than 7 rotations in the AL terminal ( mine had about 10, if I recall correctly) he should have used the torque for stainless steel (6.8) and M6 and that's 7.7 Nm. But since hes not pulling more than 0,1C it will ot matter. I pull about 0.6C with 2 10kw 400V 50Hz inverters and do have torqued it to 7.7Nm and I also did use custom laser cut aluminum bus bars. The size depends on how much amps your drawing. Pure copper is bad, always use coated coper or aluminum. Calculating it is like the wires you would use, but then, you don't want warm bus bars as they heat your battery through the terminals while luke warme cables are not nice but acceptable. So I just went with 1000a for finding my size. Cheers. I have to say, he did a fairly good job here, compared to so many other DIY guys ignoring all safety procedures. Thanks man, good job.
@@mannebk9978
interesting
personally i just torque by feel. and even if you torque them correctly to specs. next day they will be lose again.
and don't forget that stainless steel bolt goes into an aluminium thread.
indeed I said with more than 7 rotations in, one should not use aluminum terminal spec but stainless bolt spec. and no sir, mine have not come loose again, but I did retorque the bolts after a few cycles, but had no surprises there. If yours have come loose you may have used wrong torque or hardware, you don't go into detail, so I cant offer advice, except to say, if done by the book, it works just fine
It is possible that bolt or nuts may come loose due to the expansion and contractions of the batteries even if they are at the proper specify tork.
Why did you choose a BMS that cannot protect against over voltage?
The BMS will communicate directly with my charge controllers and inverters to turn them on/off. That's the way a BMS should work in my opinion. A FET-based approach works in small batteries but is far from optimal for a large storage system.
Cell#5 seemed to really drag down the capacity test though. Your pack would probably test maybe 5 percent higher without it? Just a guess.
Capacity / SOC is not constat, it is dependent on C-rate / CH, or DISCH. /
I have a question to the presenter or who ever reads this: How do older makita batteries balance? These are Lithium Ion, but only have a lead going from furthest negative side cell. Other cells do not have any connections. From newer videos of makita battery internals I can see all the leads coming in, but about older batteries, it puzzles me. I can only assume, that they self balance like lead acid batteries.
Yes, they self balance through the bms.
@@neliosamch3195 Look up the schematics. There appears to be no bms.
@@varer Protection Circuit Module Board For Makita Replacement Battery PCB Li-ion 18V, Battery PCB Chip Board For Makita 18V bl1830 bl1840 bl1850 Yes it has a resistor to balance the cells. But some have a calculation between the high and low voltages of two groups.
JK BMS has 2 amp balancing at 48vdc. That means it can handle the big 280AH EVE batteries. remember if you want these batteries to last longest find the sweet spots. you can use 90% of battery doing this and get 40 years plus if you have 4 banks charging at .2C and discharging at .2C which is 56 amps in and out each pack (56x4x48 is over 10kw). that is why you want 2 packs instead of 1 as saving couple hundred dollars on a BMS so you can double the cells is actually killing the life. also squeezing them together causes more heat which kills life cycles. go watch off grid garage and he shows you all of this in more detail. fast charge/discharge of 1C caused to much stress in the cells. .2 - .1C with 4 banks can put out at 160 amps (40 amps per pack) over 7000 watts. My house averages around 3kw per hour which is less than .1c with 4 banks.. These should last around 40 plus years if I keep them at 70 degrees F. If you are building batteries for a garage to run welders go with EVE cells and have 4-6 banks of 16s. that way each one can give the high amps and not exceed .5C and still double their live cycles. I hope this makes since. divide the load and get a JK bms for each 16s pack as it pays for itself.
Did you polish terminals? I used a antioxidant coating while polishing the aluminium. It seems to have made a difference.
Yes. I covered that at 9:40 in this video ua-cam.com/video/OiOwHEYg_34/v-deo.html :)
You never mentioned how long the discharge lasted. How much time elapsed from full to empty.
Based on the numbers, around 10 hours.
I didn't time it. It took a long a-- time and was like 10pm by the time it finished (think I started around 1pm)
It depends of the power draw. 280ah at 1C discharging rate should last one hour. 560ah at 1C two hour
First the videos are superb! You are very thorough!
Wow I have questions!!! Where do you get the vast sums of money that you need to do this? And I know it is none of my business. I ask because I have done the math to run my house on these battery/inverter/solar set up and the sum was quite substantial. Just an example if you have an inverter AC unit that has a start up in-rush of 1800 watts then stabilizes at 1200 watts running you have to allow for the in-rush current all the time in your build as the unit cycles. This is X2 in my house so I have 3600 watts at 220 volts giving me 17 amps of current needed from sun down - a couple hours and till sun up + a couple hours ( You know solar doesnt produce much from 8 am till maybe 10 am) the amp hours needed is phenomenal it seems ...
You would need a hybrid inverter to do a grid-tie setup with batteries. The inverter would manage generating just enough electricity to power your home and avoid back-feeding, when to switch to grid, etc. I have not worked with grid-tie due at all due to permitting requirements of grid-connected systems.
nice job. so how do you like the 1 k9 for 2 parrell batery packs or do you think its better to go with 2 k9 kits?
I purchased a second K9. You'll need two K9 if you have two battery packs in parallel.
That William Prowse was so pretty i couldn't listen.... like!
The new price is tuff, I was offered rpt, lishen but held out for eve to keep mine all the same.
What's the max balance current that the BMS utilizes? Looks like a larger dedicated balancer might do you some good.
That big pack has 28kwh in it, which is less energy than a gallon of gasoline....
Great video. BTW, how do you like that SunPowerGold LF Inverter? Is it noisy (mechanical)? Thanks.
It can get very loud when the fans kick in due to load or heat. Otherwise, it's just transformer hum, which isn't bad at all. The inverter itself though is great if you can overlook the high self-consumption.
@@LithiumSolar
yes, compare that 180W to a victron multiplus 5000 having 18W
Can you please show us the configuration you have the batteries in? I'm doing the same setup but don't have a clear diagram of the 16s2p pack configuration.
so is the battery management system really just a battery monitoring system ? Can it balance the cells when charging ?
I never thought about the fact that the Batrium cannot turn off the power like a traditional BMS (Without a external relay).
The BMS will communicate directly with my charge controllers and inverters to turn them on/off.
@@LithiumSolar well yes, you could also communicate with a relay to ease sevenc2
I need to build a 280Ah 16S battery for my sailboat. But i only have 4 locations for 4 cells each. All within 1m /3-4ft.
Is that very bad? What if i take massive 2x70mm2 cables (tripple the size of the short busbars) to interconnect the 4 packs (serial). I use JK 16S BMS with 2A active balancers. What are your thoughts?
I am a bit confused... you said the anderson cables are rated for 175 amps, but when I checked the amazon listing it states 6 awg which is rated for only 50-70 amps ( depending on length ).
That connector is rated for 175 amps continuous. But the cable with 6 AWG is NOT! If they used high temperature silicone insulated wire it will handle more than 70 amps, but it will get hot.
Yes, I was referring to the connector. It's an Anderson SB175 or 175A-rated connector. I don't know the exact amp rating for the cabling used here. It's much higher than 50-70A though due to 200C silicone insulation.
@@LithiumSolar Thank you, I found these to sources for AWG / ampacity www.bluesea.com/resources/1437 www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm
@@arranpritchard9004 The powerstream paragraph on ampacity is informative. Note both of their maximums are "conservative" (which means you may be able to exceed them in some situations) but also application specific (may not be able to match them in some applications).
I quite like the bluesea table, but note it is based on voltage drop. While I don't see it documented on that page, their typical application is specified for 12vdc power distribution and as such their 10% voltage drop limit is intended to maintain usability for a reasonable discharge depth on a 12v battery.
Awesome. another great video
Thoughts on Daly Smart BMS 16s vs this Batrium config?
Shame that you're using windows. People with this level of technical expertise really should be using linux.
I manage Linux servers at my day job (mostly Redhat). I have a very strong appreciation for Linux but I still use Windows on my workstation and home computers.
@@LithiumSolar You are dead to me. Just kidding. I'm the opposite: I have to use winblows at work but I use linux at home. You manage linux servers for your day job? Wow, sounds like my dream job. I used to use FreeBSD to run many server daemons: httpd, pop3d, smtpd, opennap, ircd. Those were the days man. Anyway, great video and thanks for the response.
I have 16 of these that I intend to build into a bank for my house, What safety precautions have you put in place to deal with DC ArcFlash? This is a very serious hazard that should not be ignored?
ua-cam.com/video/Zez2r1RPpWY/v-deo.html
this is a video to show the dangers of DC arcing and the potential for it t cause a thermal runaway situation of you battery pack which seems totally unprotected.
How do you get 28Kw out of 48V x 560ah?
The nominal voltage of a 16S LiFePo4 battery is 51.2v not 48v
2 (parallel) x 280Ah (cell capacity) x 3.2V (nominal) x 16 (series) = 28,672Wh
Thus batrium is compatible with lifepo4 ? And what kind of cell mons to monitor?
Yes, Batrium is compatible with LiFePO4. It always has been. I used the Watchmon CORE + K9 kit here. The K9 is the centralized cell monitor. It does not require cell mons (longmon, blockmon, leafmon, etc).
@@LithiumSolar how about for cylindrical since youre using a prismatic cells and the problem that its not compatible to lux power inverter
Ah positive post
It sparked when you put the negative on so you didn't show it huh? Its happens man haha
Huh? There were no sparks. The circuit breaker was turned off thus not a complete circuit.
🤗👍Gut
look like conections fron the batteries is not ok
Can you please explain? Where do you see a problem?
@@LithiumSolar back in days on the system was not need use balancer and this stuff. all need all cable need to be symitric and same long but the connection need to be asymmetric how are connect the main connections. I cam share a diagrams but is not possible here post link. please send a PM over email I do . have a nice days
the problems is related to the resistan of the system .. the resistan of the back need to be equal for path of - and + also start in asymmetric to get the same equal relative resistan in all cell.
@@random_name-
you are not correct. there is exactly the same current no matter how "asymmetrical" the plus and minus wires are.
if you have two battery banks, then you want to have the loops the same.
you are almost right, he got all cells symmetric. you confuse this with hooking two 12v acid batteries parallel, where this is very important. and with the lifepos it is important too, but only to build both parallel packs the same, and hes doing it perfectly, as he hase 3,3v in parallel and even paired them right when building the pack
😎✌🖖👌👍😁