Fun fact: Christopher Hitchens was a staunch, stubborn advocate for waterboarding, until he volunteered to be waterboarded to prove his beliefs. He thereafter became staunchly opposed- and this happens often. The people okay with it are people who have never been victims.
@@username_pending1328 Intelligence or a lack thereof doesn't automatically move in tandem with morality or empathy and intelligent people are still able to get things wrong
He knew he could pull the rag off which is why he was calm. That sense of being restricted is totally part of the whole experience and plays a big part in it
@@andrewdeen1 He basically made a fool of himself. And yes to Amarathros! If he wants to prove a point like this which is impossible unless you're in the thick of it with no safety line which he had then get captured and see how your brain responds compared to knowing for a fact you're safe. This is nonsense.
@@dcypher3657 It's not about honorable opposition. It's about escalating. Fear is not a deterent. If we torture people, we just create more monsters that want to kill us. I don't know what the right answer is, but a world full of monsters who hate us and want to drag us down doesn't sound fun. Sounds like we should stop fucking with them.
Angie J the difference is we’re civilised people with morals. Don’t get me wrong I’d love to wrap a crowbar round a terrorists jaw, however if the government grabbed one of them and skinned them alive starting at the toes they’re would be millions crying “They’re still people!!” “They were forced to do it!!!” “But but human rights!!” As far as I care they lost their rights the moment they stripped someone else of theres. If you’ll happily burn an innocent man alive you’re not a person, you’re dirt that’s aware of its surroundings.
@@dcypher3657 It's not about what they do. It's about what the US government does. If it has standards and principles, it has to live by them. According to Title 18 of the US State Code, torture is "an act committed by a person acting under the color of law specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control", and if you read on, the threat of pain of suffering falls under that definition. Waterboarding is the threat of physical harm, which causes mental suffering, and is undeniably torture. Now, the question becomes: does the US government commit acts of torture? If the answer is no, then there should be no waterboarding. If the answer is "no, unless...", then it's yes. Because there is no such thing as suspending your principles - otherwise they're simply not principles anymore. If you think what ISIS (or domestic right-wing terrorists for that matter) does, should directly result in whatever "means to an end" can be put to use, then that's a position to choose. But then you're saying: the US government practices torture to get information in certain cases. The implication of that is that the US would immediately have to get off their high horse on any other human rights subject, and has no moral highground anymore to tell other nations what to do. And I don't think the US government is ready to relinquish that moral highground. THAT'S the ballgame. Not kindergarten logic of the familiar format of "yes but he...!!!"
I got voluntarily waterboarded in highschool by some swim team buddies just for fun, four of them held me down on a bench so I wouldn't thrash while two poured the water. It was one of the worst experiences in my life, like if hell was underwater, but the moment they stopped I stood up and acted like it was nothing, all because I didn't want to look like a pussy in front of everyone, even today when it comes up in conversation I act as if it was nothing. I can tell this guy is doing the exact same thing.
Imagine thinking as nerd who was on the swim team you can even come close to comparing yourself to an ex marine that was deployed 20+ times. Shut up lmao
I love when he brings up that he is so much tougher than Crowder because Crowder couldn't handle it, but this guy is military, Crowder isn't. That doesn't make Crowder a coward. What a terrible argument he made.
Surely getting "tortured" by people you trust and you know mentally there is no harm coming to you, is not the same as being strapped on a table in a room with people you know have 0 respect for you and your life.
DeliriumzzZ are we also ignoring the fact that you don’t know when you’re going to be released, if ever. That’s huge. Not only are you being tortured but you could be a prisoner for a year and be tortured every day, and this guy just says that doesn’t work lol okay
DeliriumzzZ I agree , I am curious though as to how you would deal with scenarios overseas when dealing with these said people who are not in any way reflective of a human being. They are the lowest of the low: Unspeakable and horrific crimes. It is very hard to have these discussions when no one really understands truly how things need to be handled when American lives are at stake. I think this psychological abuse that you speak of is a product of the capture in its entirety. Why put emphasis of psychological torture on one act when the whole entire process is what is causing this degradation and deep rooted psychological damage?
Honestly, they are trained to protect American lives. Which is what he repeats over and over again. If he died during torture from a terrorist group, then at least it was him instead of hundreds if not thousands of Americans.
Vsauce has a good MindField video on fear, and he concluded that the most fearful a human can ever be is through suffocation, combined with a lack of control. Emphasis on the lack of control.
MikeCharlieAlpha vsauce has access to thousands of different veterans and tools me and you have never heard of. Because he’s not a veteran doesn’t mean he can’t understand what people fear the most.
UTubeCorruptAntiFreeSpeechLiberalCo You sound like a moron. Doesn’t seem like you’ve ever watched a mind field series in your life, so you have no right to comment on it. Every episode is made using experts.
If a man with strong resolve can withstand something like waterboarding, and that's one of the factors that decides whether or not something is torture, then you could apply that to any kind of enhanced interrogation techniques. A man, with strong enough resolve could take beatings, starvations, nails driven through their hands, etc. so does that not count as torture either?
Those aren't even close to the same unless you are trying to say that a man with a strong resolve can survive being starved, or his resolve can make him impervious to nails. The question was never about if he would crack and give up information, it was that the physical sensation is not as bad as people make it out to be and it's more about your mentality. Driving nails through your hands or surviving on zero calories is not about your mentality. The only thing waterboarding actually does is scare someone into thinking they might die. Let me repeat. The ONLY thing waterboarding does is scare someone. That is what he showed. Starving, beating, or nails through the hands is not just scaring someone. THAT is the difference between torture and this.
@@rickh5088 Starving someone and splitting their nails also is not killing them though. Why draw the line there? Can I pull a gun, rack it back and start blasting next to the a prisoner's ear? I'm not killing them, I'm just scaring them. Can I pull a knife out on their throat and tell them I'm going to skin their kids alive whilst showing pictures of them? Is this even all worth it, to burn our reputation over this? I get that this stuff is sensitive intelligence, but 10 years later I would hope to have evidence of how many lives they saved with this. If so, if they present it, then we would all be more convinced this is the way to go forward (minus some die hard moralists).
Tim is obviously a brave guy and a warrior but either through a bit of a deficit in intelligence or extreme bias due to his chosen profession and traumas, he is ironically one of the last people you'd want making these sorts of estimations and decisions. Water boarding is unequivocally, unambiguously torture. Giving someone the sensation of drowning is torture. You can subjectively say it's not as bad as chopping someone's finger off, or whatever, but it's clearly torture.
Having your teeth pulled out just eliminates any possibility of getting tooth ache in the future. It's actually quite helpful and I'll definitely be requesting it should I be kidnapped.
He's saying that waterboarding is very tame in comparison to other ways they could torture you and he's right. There are much worse things than waterboarding
@@elocore1702 how extreme the waterboarding is, is up to the people doing it. im sure i could turn it into torture, hell, i could keep dumping water onto someone untill they drown.
He is a psychopath. He knows what he needs to say to get ahead in his career and he doesnt give one single fk if it is the truth or not. As long as it advances him, he will do or say anything necessary.
Pouring water on someone's face isn't waterboarding. Strapping a person to a board, tilting the board with the head lower, putting a soaked rag in their mouth, putting another soaked rag on their face, pouring huge amounts of water on their chest, (even hold their nose closed), and pour water on the face and mouth. You keep doing it until their lungs almost fill with water. They drown and you revive them, punch them in the stomach to help them expel the water as one way to do so (often ribs are cracked). You keep doing that for hours and hours, days and days. This does cause one to say anything that they think that you want to hear to make it stop. People that test it often aren't doing it the real way. Plus you know that it will stop because it's just a test. You know that it won't last hours or days. You know for a fact that medical attention is on hand. People care if you lose consciousness or die.
@@jaymonkey1456 "World Police" Is a title that came from the US Military's invasion of other countries and calling it a "police action" so that Congress doesn't have to formally declare war.
who knows? As if America doesn’t kill innocent civilians including women and children with drone strikes? Pretty sure there’s plenty of evil to go around.
Any practice designed to make the victim feel like they are in danger constitutes torture. That’s why mock executions are a form of psychological torture
I don’t think terrorists or mass murderers are capable of victimhood. Meaning when you commit atrocities you’re essentially turning in your human card. Torture to save lives=moral. Torture for punishment(with due process)=moral. Torture for entertainment=immoral.
@@mzc102908 They truly are patriots of completely different magnitude than an average person. Doing speedball is the ultimate patriot move and anyone who isn't supporting our brave troops by buying coke and heroin is a russian agent.
Just because you're not slamming nails through someones hand does not mean it isn't torture. Pretty sure if I got waterboarded I would crumble immediately and be scarred for life from the experience. Torture is the act of inflicting severe pain or suffering on somone, don't know about you but I would call being upside down in a hostile environment with a constant sensation of drowning suffering. His argument basically came down to 'it's not hardcore enough to be torture'
Well to be fair, there has to be a line between what makes something torture, and I think we can both agree that if waterboarding is torture it certainly isn’t anywhere near the level of torture that you’d see from isis or CJNC. It definitely isn’t anywhere near the worst torture out there. Does that mean it doesn’t cross the line into torture? I have no clue, I’m just some college kid in the suburbs who’s thankfully never had to find out
@@shaolinsoccerisashittymovi7232 People dle from being Waterboarded. To be repeatedly brought close to death and back again sounds pretty damn awful to me…. This Tim prlck I don’t believe for one moment he was actually Waterboarded. Not properly
It’s not just someone spilling water on you. The point of it is to simulate drowning. He’s the only one I’ve ever heard from who’s been water boarded who says it’s not torture. Sure there are worse forms but he clearly did it just to be able to say it’s not torture.
"Simulating" drowning? Sorry...it "IS" drowning. If the waterboarding was not halted...you would drown. That's not a simulation...it's controlled drowning that can be started at stopped on demand.
"Here's the deal, Jack, if a couple hundred thousand innocents need to die and thousands of completely innocent bystanders need to get tortured to calm our violent Islamophobia, you gotta do what you gotta do"
Seriously what ru even talking about…first off he never said HE tortured, waterboarded or did anything like that to anyone. He was talking about the type of people whom our government used tactics like waterboarding on. People who were more often than not connected in some way to terrorism. Impotent little bullies is putting it extremely nicely, do you think they’re good people? If it weren’t for people like this “psycho” they’d be over here beheading us for our western way of life. What world do you live in? Pro tip: try and make the slightest attempt to listen to a video before you comment something with no shred of accuracy it’s a good way to not look stupid. Got me defending Tim Kennedy and I don’t even like him
you do realize the people he's calling that raped, ACTUALLY tortured, and killed people on a daily basis. Your perception of evil is severely misguided.
"If you isolate them and take away all their power, they crumble and cave. I need that power. Waterboarding is like asking someone a pointed question." This dude's blood is literally red white and blue kool-aid.
Probably true, it's not just running water over people's heads, it's literally drowning them but also keeping them alive. It's def. Torture, just not as gruesome
One of Joe Rogans finest Moments. He addresses a delicate issue respectfully, without raising his voice or showing annoyance. Raising concerns patiently and eventually showing your opposite your point of view without embarrassing them isn’t easy.
@Exec Utize And to judge the level of ridiculousness of someone's opinion does not require any level of expertise or experience from your point of view? Everyone here seems to mock his missing level of humbleness- ever looked to the mirror?
@Exec Utize If you want to see a person who holds ridiculous beliefs, change those ridiculous beliefs, you don't mock them. Mockery is the language of war. You listen, you converse and you get the individual to open their mind by speaking their "language". Then you offer the better perspective (if you have that perspective) This is how Jacque Fresco and Daryl Davis converted hundreds of KKK members to see rationality (separate endeavors by those two men)
@@ZeroFucksLeft Exactly. If you mock them you will just cause them to go on the defensive and they will shut themselves off from even considering your point of view. They will stubbornly hold on to their beliefs just because you mocked them. If you want to stand a chance at causing someone to change their beliefs you have to give them a way to do it without feeling like they are "losing" an argument if they give in. You have to be respectful, and give them the time to consider whatever it is that you have to say, and if they agree with it, and it persuades them to change their belief, they may admit to it, but only if it doesn't make them feel completely undermined.
Saker he speaks many languages and could literally covertly replace a government in a foreign country in a number of months with a small team. “Thick as pig shit” must be referring to his muscle mass because that’s the only way that description would fit. Meanwhile, you’re probably nothing more than a lump in a chair typing out BS because your anonymity makes you think you’re cool 😆
KingGrizzly 78 lol it’s not taking anything out of context. That’s why he supports torture because he has done it. Every other piece of ‘context’ in this video is him trying to justify his actions. I guarantee if he was caught and tortured he would sound more like John McCain than Hideki Tojo.🤔
Hayden Johnson didn’t he say that torture doesn’t work because at some point the person being tortured will tell you anything you want to hear, even if it isn’t true
I'd say piloting a plane into a building must involve some sort of strong conviction. And rest assured, if Joe was getting waterboarded for hours he'd admit to being vegan by the end of it.
Yeah and talking as though the plane can bring down the building and everything in response is by the Geneva convention means he has no convictions. Joined military to kill nothing else.
Not really if they are hoped up on drugs like the kamikazee pilots. They would take a bunch of drugs before their suicide missions. That doesn’t take a lot of convictions if you don’t really know what’s going on. But the planning phase of that had to be insane
@@jackjon7763 I don't think so. You would still know you're about to die and deal with it exactly the same way. Exactly the same convictions would be required to take the drug for the same purpose. Not that there's any reason to think they used drugs anyway. It's very difficult to fly a plane and do all that happened before that
In an industrial job, I drilled a hole through my thumbnail into the bone, by accident. 20-years later, I STILL remember it. Same employer, I also nearly cut a finger off on a grinder (which was re-attached)...again, I STILL remember it. Being tied down KNOWING either were about to happen...and maybe worse...yeah, it's torture, so either accept it, or stop doing it. I spent 21-years in the Marine Corps and retired after more than one 'Desert Campaign'...I've seen war, and most of what Tim Kennedy has seen...it doesn't change anything...either ENGAGE COMBATANTS in war, or don't. THIS IS EXACTLY what a 'primarily asynchronous warfare' (special forces) war looks like...abductions, torture, limited strikes...and MINIMAL IMPACT to any real facilitator of the war itself. Either we 'are better than them', or 'we are them'...there are far worse things than death...and MANY of the tactics employed now are just that. It's also how we ended up dealing with torture in Vietnam...because S-2 (intelligence) decided SpecOps had to validate 'enemy dead' by removing ears...never realizing the theological impact this caused (to disfigure the dead is abomination, as they will return in reincarnation in the same dismembered state). We are merely teaching greater evil to be returned to us. Death in war is often honorable...dismemberment or torture are tools of the weak and dishonorable that will return to you with terrible interest, in most cases.
@@seemssafe2995 that worm has more blood on his hands than any other normal american citizen. he went to kill people and didn't think for himself. now he knows what shit america did world wide, and with blood on his hands he didnt mention them once? aighty than. challenge accepted. onTopic: when someone put his city into ashes incl. his family, perhaps than he know what tourture is. BUT WAY TO LATE.
@@oxitocin7718, it's to simulate drowning. Plus they're gonna beat you, spit on you, lock you away in a cage. Walk you on a leash and collar like a dog. Feed you the bare minimum.
True, but the real point is that waterboarding is not actually "physically" harming the individual, just giving them the sense of being drowned. So it is arguably more humane than torture where bodily harm is done. And it's war, fight to win or don't fight. All bets are off.
K2 Mally I guess you are joking. As far as I know, they stopped executing people in prison, because the new toll known as DNA. Another thing I think he’s becoming a monster fighting other monsters. War never determined who’s right but who’s left. ( quote Bertrand Russell) humanity has shown over centuries that we are able to justify any kind of violence,especially when money, religion and politics is above common sense. We need to evolve all of us to become better humans. Normally I’m a positive person, but due to humanity I don’t think we ever will get away from violence solutions. Let the Middle East be,and other insane countries. And boycott these to a grade they need to evolve from insane suppressing leaders. And we should stay away from them ASAP
I get what he’s saying it’s that real torture every man has a breaking point so if u use real torture everyone and anyone will eventually break. He’s saying water boarding isn’t that cause for a person of principles and convictions they can withstand water boarding without breaking no matter how many times it’s done to them. Like how yelling at someone isn’t torture cause no matter how many times u do it a person with conviction and belief in what they are doing isn’t going to crack. Idk if that’s true or not since I’ve never been waterboarded but I think that’s what he’s trying to say.
I can assure you that it is not true... the fact that he describes waterbaording as "just pouring water on someone's face" shows how out of touch with reality Tim Kennedy is. He calls people cowards and pussys whilst torturing them....
It can deprive your brain of oxygen, it can fill your lungs with water and send your body into shock. If thats not torture then I don't know what is 🤷♂️
I'm 100% sure I could break anyone via waterboarding. If done correctly, it is absolutely torture, especially if combined with sleep deprivation, which real waterboarding is. The only question is, does torture get you the "truth" or the answers you want to hear?
People who say they’ve been waterboarded and yeah it was unpleasant but its not torture - they haven’t been waterboarded where they cant stop it when it gets too much. Anyone can get waterboarded for 10 seconds then say “yeah that sucks but its not that bad”. Try getting water boarded for hours and you can’t make me stop - and everytime i do it you know you cant make me stop
Next week: Tim Kennedy on broken bones: Tim: Breaking a bone is not an injury. Joe: How is a broken bone not an injury? Tim: Look, when I was risking my life for this country, I saw people get their limbs blown off, I saw people get shot in the face, I saw people get crushed to death. Joe: How does that relate at all? Tim: It's just a broken bone. Getting decapitated is an injury. Breaking a bone is not.
he tries to downplay the torture aspect by saying "we're just pouring water on their face." That's like saying that all you do when shocking someone with electrodes is "we're just flipping a switch." They're inducing the panic fear of drowning on someone. Torture. And if anyone did this to American soldiers who were captured, we'd immediately call it that.
If the late Christopher Hitchens (who volunteered to get waterboarded) is to be believed, it doesn't just induce the fear of drowning. At a point, you actually start drowning.
I think Kennedy talked about that. It sounded like things MUCH worse than waterboarding were happening. Thats the point. These animals needed to be stopped and we needed information. It worked and the animals were not physically harmed.
If you volunteer it's not torture, if you are held against your will and have no chance to escape and feel the terror of the inability to fight back or have the waterboarding stop, then without a doubt it's torture. It has nothing to do with toughness or being a macho dude.
I always thought the issue with torture was not that people wouldn't break, it's that people who didn't know the answers to what you are asking would just make up answers for the torture to end.
@@dillweed501 They die with them or they value their life enough to not and tell all. Torture has been proven as ineffective. Good cop-Bad cop is shown to be the most effective method of interrogation. Simple as that.
the right dose of LSD in the right setting is one of the best experiences you'll ever have, but if you're first time is a high dose, you're stressed and mentally not in a good place to begin with, you can have a seriously bad trip.
Well they also burned out their eyes with lit cigarettes and shoved bamboo splinters under their fingernails. As Kennedy said, it becomes torture when you start adding things on top of them
Man's calling "them" deranged and saying "they" do torture because they're evil while he does torture because he must, while casually talking about bringing people to Abu Ghraib. He's completely detached from reality to justify whatever really gnarly shit he's done
@@farzana6676 how can you prove your brain is more rational than someone else's? How can you prove german and soviet soldiers during WW2 or russian now are less rational than american soldiers? What's even "evil" and how does someone find it? Is it an objective truth? Don't overthink it. Evil is subjective and everyone sees themselves as a hero fighting against evil.
@@helgenlane It's simple. Apply an objective test. The ones that throws gays off buildings and blow themself up for the promise of 72 virgins in heaven are the evil, and the ones that hunt them are the good guys. Don't overthink it.
If you're trying to convince me that waterboarding isn't torture, it doesn't help when you talk about how awful the people are that you're waterboarding. That has nothing to do with whether or not it is torture, that has something to do with whether or not they deserve to be tortured! Tim is essentially making the 'it is torture' point better than I could.
Snaggle Toothed These radical groups in the Middle East are the ones killing innocent people. And I’m sure Tim has merked a few terrorist scum bags in his time with special forces. That’s a fact, quit being a little 🐶
The misunderstanding is that waterboarding is not just pouring water on someone's face. It's primarily a form of psychological torture with a physical component, similar to sleep deprivation or confinement (3-foot cube). I've seen the results of real waterboarding and it's torture. One person committed suicide because he couldn't live with the nightmares. Another has trouble drinking (any liquid) because he always thinks he's going to drown. These are ex-military... Rangers, etc. and ex-State Department, as well as professional civilians. They are not cowards and they are not wusses... they've been tortured. The person has to believe that you're not going to stop until you tell them what they want to hear. The person needs to inhale some water and keep on pouring. You have to know that there is a very real chance that you will die. That's waterboarding. It leaves people seriously messed up in the head and unable to function as a normal person... usually for life. I understand what Kennedy is saying, but Rogan gets it... The whole point is that you don't know how it's going to turn out. It might not be physically scarring, but it's still torture. You'll say anything to make it stop when you believe that it won't stop until you talk (or die). It's worth noting here that there are plenty of ways to torture someone physically that leave no visible marks or other physical evidence. This whole argument against waterboarding being torture is simply the CIA and State Department wanting to be able to say that waterboarding is not technically torture so that they can feel like they're not wrong in using it. It's like justifying stealing by redefining it as "borrowing indefinitely." Similarly, the buzzword "Discomfort" is just another way of saying "Pain" that allows torturers to justify what they do in their own minds. It's worth noting that prominent English dictionaries as well as international organizations do not specify that torture must specifically involve physical pain... torture can be either mental or physical. Most commonly, as in the case of waterboarding, torture is a combination of mental (psychological) and physical discomfort/pain.
Remember when Christopher Hitchens said waterboarding wasn't tortured and had it done to him? I gave in after a few seconds and immediately came up saying he was wrong and that it defiantly is torture. That dude was real af.
Yes, just rewatched the waterboarding of Christopher Hitchens again. He said it was worse than drowning. The water makes you hold your breath which sucks the towel into your mouth and nostrils so you feel like you are both drowning and suffocating. He also forgot the safe word he was in such a panic and threw the metal objects he was holding to the floor rather than just casually dropping them like he was told to.
We get the moral high ground because we don't do the shit they do. You start losing that when you hand wave away the fucked shit we do cause "they're worse then us"
We do to them what we do, which is nothin in comparison to what they do to us and each other. Now you wanna be a bitch and argue against us and defend them then maybe you don’t belong here! go live amongst those people and see how long you live! you’ll see shit that makes anything we do look like baking a cake. 🖕🏽
No actually you gain it when you understand that the fucked shit we do also follows up with media criticism and getting voted out. We've made mistakes and have done our best at correcting injustice (no one is perfect) they are worse than us do they have a constitution? Do they allow women to drive? Do they constantly have corrupt regimes one after the other? No. Do not compare us to them. One breaks a window the other burns an orphanage. We are not the same. Yes, our government has done bad things but since they've been around longer they are much worse to each other and others. Still fighting about a massacre at Mosque centuries if not a millennia ago.
@@birish21 Hey Stupid! www.mediamatters.org/national-review/nros-hemingway-gets-history-wrong-accusing-begala-botching-facts What was that? Did you say something? crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/correction-we-actually-did-execute-j
Waterboarding was a small portion of japanese war crimes against POWs (good example is decapitation contest) and that was over 60 years ago. Opinions do change with time, not saying youre wrong but using a different era for ideas now isnt 100% solid
@N.A.R Channel So he's in shape and wanted to prove himself. Now he's god? Can do no wrong? Lol this guy would get DESTROYED in any debate club in the world.
@N.A.R Channel i'm just saying. not necessarily in the case of tim kennedy, but as a general rule. being a green beret is a hell of a thing, but it is still possible to be an asshole. most sf guys are alright, some are dicks
@@cosmicbilly saving lives and helping people is possible without committing war crimes buddy. If you want to say committing war crimes is necessary to actually help people, then say that. But don’t try to hide behind this morality bullshit. War crimes are not moral. Period.
@@Livingston_Seagull Why can't cosmic hide behind morality bs? You hide behind fake laughter. I think the only moral path is to avoid war at any reasonable cost. Once at war the goal is to win. Anything else is an out and out lie.
I like how ya played that waterboarding part, get Joe on ur side.. "See joe your not like that" lol😄 Bru. doesn't matter who you are if you start aspirating on water you're gonna panic..
s a he’s been in war countless number of times and if u ever heard his war stories he tells a story where around 300 fighters surrounded him and his team. They were in a gunfight for 3 days and lost guys and everyone of them thought they were going to die. Imagine being in that situation having to fight and kill people, knowing your going to die and also seeing your best friends get killed right in front of your eyes. In my opinion that is torture. He said he’s seen people get tortured and if u see that u can still have feeling about how that person is feeling. He probably is more qualified to talk about this that 99.9% if people alive
War crimes? When are you fucking pussies going to realize that there are a lot of really fucked up people in this world and that when dealing with these animals you need to use extreme measures? I was told in basic training all about the things we couldn't do when dealing with the enemy. The hell with that. If it's a choice between me and that human piece of shit who's trying to kill me, you can bet I would have used any and all means available to make sure it wasn't me. Both you and chig bungus need to grow a pair and man the fuck up.
I really admire Tim Kennedy and believe he’s a true patriot and a good man but when you start referring to people as animals you lose me. At the end of the day they are humans. Once you start to dehumanize an individual anything is possible. Everything is on the table
Rapists and murderers gave up their rights to be treated as humans the second they decided to rape and murder people. They are fucking animals and deserve to be murdered and raped to death, by the biggest and blackest of cocks.
In general I agree with you. I understand Tim's position as well. At some point the darkest forms of human behavior are so terrible that only something worse, something inhumane and devoid of redeeming quality, could be responsible.
I mean everything IS on the table in the real world. People can live their whole lives without one bad thing happening and then by sheer bad luck end up chopped up in a suitcase. We're all one unlucky moment away from the absolute worst people are capable of. Most people don't like to think about it cause honestly it's scary and it sucks, but the reality of it is that at any given moment of any given day absolute inhuman shit is going down
I’ve gone water boarding several times, if I were captured by the enemy and they took me water boarding I’d still have fun idk how it can be compared to torture.
If you think you need to torture someone because you truly think It'd save lives then just say so. I would respect that far better then trying to downplay it.
Exactly. Stand by what you believe. He also said vets who have PTSD are pussies and should just suck it up, and then backtracked. STAND BY what you say, Tim. Is that so hard, being the supreme alpha male you are?
it is about PR and the reputation of the USA. Everybody knows they are full of shit and monsters but if they say they don't torture it just sounds better.
yeah, my issue is that a lot of the people involved in the interrogation program said that the people who were tortured weren't giving any usable. if you were getting good information, it would be messed up, but I could live with it
@Chris M they are ALSO monsters. But at least they don't claim to spread freedom and democracy. They are pretty honest about the fact that they are terrorists and full of shit.
I respect his service but I don't think he's thinking clearly here. If you do something to make a person feel like their drowning, and they can't make it stop, that's torture. Is it the worst torture? I know there are worse things you can do to people but it's still torture.
Waterboarding is just a slow way of drowning and suffocation a person. If its painful or causes suffering then it's torture. Suffering includes pain and distress and distress is causing severe anxiety or pain. So does oxygen deprivation and water in your lungs hurt or make you anxious? Apparently not, it's just some water on the face.
Dude this guy, Tim Kennedy, is ABSOLUTELY what Nietzsche was talking about when he said "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you."
Exactly was wondering if anyone else came to this conclusion. He thinks he is virtuous but really he is no better than those he despises and you can tell from the hate and resentment in his voice.
Water boarding isn’t torture I was waterboarded in Afghanistan by enemy troops and they couldn’t break me. Waterboarding feels like you’re drowning but there isn’t no lasting physical effect
I’m so glad joe challenged him and fractured his ego a little bit pointing out how he could never understand if he hasn’t been captured on enemy soil, and how he cannot tapout in a street fight
As clever as Joe Rogan is ... he is definitely not nearly as clever as Tim Kennedy when it comes to war It's just opinions mate And to be honest when you want an opinion on war would you rather ask a special forces soldier that has served 18 years or a podcast host ?
@@rubendutoit586 It's not just opinions, Joe challenged his argument of "I was waterboarded and I was fine" by saying that he might've been fine because he knew what was coming and that he was in a safe environment. Maybe if he was truly captured in a foreign soil without any assurances of his safety, who knows what would've happened. The point is, an experiment in a controlled environment can never be the same as the reality and you don't need to be an expert in any field to make the argument, you just need logic.
@@jimkohi5611 I totally agree with you in that regard Only thing is not me, you , joe rogan or anyone in this comment section knows what a green beret soldier would do in that kind of environment should they be captured only they will know 🙂 You're not talking about average people here remember that It's so easy to sit at home typing on your keyboard saying this and saying that... these guys don't go through 15 months of training for nothing I get what you are saying... but You just need some "logic" as you would say to know you're not a green beret and your someone who sits at home with a pack of doritos on his keyboard and you'll never in your lifetime be the man Tim Kennedy is or any soldier is for that matter so don't argue with how his mind works I respect Joe Rogan a lot but he's not a special forces soldier and he does not know how their minds work or how they have been trained and fact is he never will nor will you or me so nobody can say Tim is wrong
@@rubendutoit586 bro that argument is so dumb. Is the US the only country with tough soldiers? Like this guy is sucking his own dixk and America’s dixk talking about “every guy that has ever snitched from water boarding is a coward” Lmaoo like the insanity to think none of these men who have been born and raised in fucking war zones are as tough as someone raised in the US is idiotic beyond measures. And for you to think that every green Beret is some fucking beast is also idiotic. You don’t know what will break you mentally until you’re there. There is no amount of prep you can do. Unless this man has been captured and tortured himself, at least ONE time then he’s also talking without knowing wtf he’s talking about. Trying to compare an experiment where he literally had to sign a waiver to being captured in war 😂😂😂😂
A key element of the horror of torture is the realization what you're facing will never end thats a huge element of it if you feel like you're going to be drowned for days, weeks, months. It gets alot worse then having some fun with your friends
no it is objectivy easier for me to torture someone who wants to kill me for buring the quran than someone who doesn't humans aren't above animals neccerily we are animals too but we're the only ones with memory storage in the form of paper disks and so on think about that case with a baby being in the same cage as a gurilla in the zoo, your deadline wich is the survival of the baby is simply gone by the time you try to comminucate to the animal that "hey you're gonna kill it buddy you're too strong and that human baby is too fragile" i believe you could eventually teach guerrilas sign language but itll take years and you simply dont have that kind of time. its the same with the terrorist you have to undo years and years of brainwash and fallacies and conformation bias it will take years of therapy and education that is not realistic it is not a deragetory term it is an equivlance you're just gonna die and gotta get away from that thing and also becuase of revenge mechanisms and other tribal shit its just gonna feel good to punch a bunch of nazi..i mean terrorists
@John Weren well you're dumbass who doesn't understand the different kinds of morality you're a deontologist a consequentialist would tell you it's immoral not to torture someone when you could save hundreds of lives
7:09 Tim admits that torture doesn't work to get actual info, just what the interrogater wants the person to say. So why would waterboarding be any different? Why would someone not tell you what you want to hear in order to make you stop waterboarding them? It's because waterboarding is torture. Tim says "its just water being poured on your face". The torture doesn't just come from the act itself, it comes from the monotony and repetition of the act. If he believes waterboarding doesn't even qualify as torture, I wonder what he thinks about Chinese water torture. Where they drip droplets of water onto you face or forehead in one focused spot for days on end until it drives you mad essentially. That IS torture, and all THAT is, is dripping water on your face.
Joe: "So you knew you were completely safe during the whole thing?" Tim: "Yes" Joe: "So you agree that this is different than a real situation?" Tim: "But that's beside the point" Okay buddy
Tom Evans that control is kinda irrelevant when dealing with the torture though. The same physical sensation is felt, and the reaction to it doesnt really matter, because either way youre not really going to be damaged from it
Tom Evans and realistically I don’t think any of these people think that theyre going to be drowned to death. Drowning is an inefficient, relatively pain-free and simply ridiculous way to kill someone, especially when the water is being poured on you. Its a scare tactic at best, and any logical person could see that
Chris Lucas that's how we ended up spending billions on a war aimed at finding "weapons of mass destruction" I was having a conversation with a fairly intelligent man about 6 months ago and he actually cited the WMDs as a legit reason for the war in Iraq. People here just don't want to move away from the tribal mentality that the media is propagating
Chris Lucas more like the 9/11 card, people play that card way to much, but the racist card is still the most effective in this politically correct country
Dashoost, what the hell are you talking about? The Global War on Terror did not initiate the war in Iraq. The Bush administration began the Iraq war under different pretenses than the GWoT.
the problem is if you were actually captured, you wouldnt know you were being waterboarded. for all you know your captors could be trying to drown you...thats literally why waterboarding works, it makes someone think they're being drowned. if you know you're being waterboarded then you know there is no risk of drowning.
It’s moronic to euthanize people who brutally murder other people? K. Let em mosey on back to what they’re doing. Training to kill westerners. Fuckin brilliant. Stupid democrat.
you cant interview a military guy to know whether its torture, you just cant because he's going to support his own cause and the ways they use to fight for it
Official Jesus well if you hate the people being waterboarded you shouldn't support it because it gives the defense that their confessions were coerced through torture, which can waste millions of tax dollars over multiple appeals
Official Jesus the people being tortured most of the time are innocent... and even IF the person IS guilty toture doesn't work in real life. In movies and shows it does but in real life it doesn't work. You could being totured for something you didn't do then say for hours you didn't do it then eventually you would give in and say you did. People will do ANYTHING to make toture stop even if they are guilty or not.
link to those studies then. Don't just give your "whataboutism" and run away with your tail between your legs, back it up thats how the real world works dummy
A family member of mine was shot down over Japan and tortured in a POW camp which included waterboarding and lived the rest of his life in a mental asylum from the brain damage.
Probably a weak minded pussy that couldn't handle some water /s Sorry for your family I just had to repeat what this Tim creep was saying it's bogus to think water boardings just some activity and not psychological and physical torture
“As a form of torture, waterboarding became illegal under the law of war with the adoption of the third Geneva Convention of 1929, which required that prisoners of war be treated humanely, and the third and fourth Geneva Conventions of 1949, which explicitly prohibited the torture and cruel treatment of prisoners of war and civilians, respectively.” Waterboarding isn’t torture tho cause Tim Kennedy KNOWS torture
Waterboarding is mental torture not physical. It's the idea and feeling of drowning without actually doing so. Tim is right its not torture. Once you realize you aren't going to drown it loses effectiveness. He is also right that it will never work on someone who is firm in their beliefs. He is also right that torture also doesn't work so by proxy ultimately waterboarding will fail. When you torture someone they will more likely just tell you what you want to hear rather than the truth making it unreliable information
@@kobochy8108 you say it is mental torture, then you say it is not torture? You know that keeping a person awake for prolonged time or giving them the worst trips of their life and so on is also torture without breaking fingers for example? Also you can actually drown when being waterboarded. Just keep the towel on your face and the water coming.
Anyone who says waterboarding isn't torture is either insanely sadistic or sociopathic. What is happening presently to Julian Assange is ABSOLUTELY considered TORTURE to anyone who has the capacity to reason and empathize. So if Julian Assange is being tortured both Psychologically and Physically and he is not being waterboarded, how can you not consider waterboarding torture? Tim Kennedy is a dangerous individual who should NEVER be allowed to decide how to treat Prisoners of War.
I'm so impressed by Joe's ability as an interviewer... and he doesn't let Tim off the hook... discussing John McCain's experiences was brilliant to highlight why torture is not ok, morally... if we do this, we are no better than they are... and that's not ok
Sure am I would actually like to meet him in person. I never said he was crazy in a bad way. Sometimes we got to be careful of what we say cause people can over react of a truthful opinion more so on how kids are these days and why about the military, especially on something that isn't his fault like the Busch administration and the 911incident.
I know that, but I still don't have to fear him. I may like him, but if I'm what he swore to protect I should not need to fear him. There are people equally dangerous than he is without being a seal.
He wasn’t waterboarded. Not in any way, shape or form. He lay on a bench while someone poured water over his face. Had he been restrained and immobilised and subjected to waterboarding without the ability to stop it until he felt he was drowning - that would be waterboarding. This man is a fool. You cannot use how bad “they” are as a justification for your actions. It wouldn’t matter if it was Osama Bin Laden himself on the board, it’s still torture. Could it be justified in some cases? That’s a different debate. But it IS torture. If it causes unbearable suffering then it’s torture.
Well... I mean not "literally everyone", since Kennedy tried it and didn't change his mind. What's adorable is that he gives no credit to the fact that he's a highly trained special forces operator. Like he's not in the 1% of the (physically and mentally) toughest people in the world. Also, we tried Japanese soldiers for war crimes, for waterboarding American soldiers in WWII. Worked on them, so I guess they were "weak cowards" too.
I believe that water boarding is torture but mental torture, kinda like putting someone in complete isolation but not as bad because that person is able to keep their sanity, not physical and water boarding tricks the mind into believing you can’t breathe even thought you’re able to so in turn it makes you your own torturer
A Aizner Tim Kennedy wasn’t waterboarded. All he did was hold his breath while his friends poured water on his face and stopped every 15 seconds. He needs to be strapped up head angled down rag on face constant flow of water being poured on his face for 10mins
pulling out teeth during interrogations isn't torture, it's just a surprise dentist appointment
Surprise mechanics! I love it!
Sons Of Atlus - That’s what American Law enforcement should’ve done to the Dancing Israelis 🕺🏻✈️ 🏢🏢
😂
lol
not the same thing
Thats not waterboarding, its tactical baptism!!
Ha ha ha this is too funny
Baptizing the terrorists with freedom!
Jajajajaja
👏👏🤣
Terrorising terrorist to stop terrorism
Fun fact: Christopher Hitchens was a staunch, stubborn advocate for waterboarding, until he volunteered to be waterboarded to prove his beliefs. He thereafter became staunchly opposed- and this happens often. The people okay with it are people who have never been victims.
He was a very intelligent man but also was wise enough to admit when he was wrong
@@SerjTerriblehe was either an advocate for waterboarding or he was very intelligent, not both at the same time.
@@username_pending1328 Intelligence or a lack thereof doesn't automatically move in tandem with morality or empathy and intelligent people are still able to get things wrong
Tom Kennedy did get waterboarded
@bostonnate4024 no he didn't, he had his buddies hold his hand.
He knew he could pull the rag off which is why he was calm. That sense of being restricted is totally part of the whole experience and plays a big part in it
Yeah but what else do you expect him to do actually get captured and then report it?
@@TheUnseenPath he wouldnt ever know the real experience because he's a pussy himself
@@TheUnseenPath keeping his mouth shut would be a good place to start
@@andrewdeen1 they cut hands and heads off, water boarding is a vacation compared to what these animals deserve.
@@andrewdeen1 He basically made a fool of himself. And yes to Amarathros! If he wants to prove a point like this which is impossible unless you're in the thick of it with no safety line which he had then get captured and see how your brain responds compared to knowing for a fact you're safe. This is nonsense.
I respect joe when he plays devils advocate instead of playing into egos
lestudio76 pretty hard to not play devils advocate against “waterboarding isn’t torture” lol
@@dcypher3657 It's not about honorable opposition. It's about escalating. Fear is not a deterent. If we torture people, we just create more monsters that want to kill us. I don't know what the right answer is, but a world full of monsters who hate us and want to drag us down doesn't sound fun. Sounds like we should stop fucking with them.
Angie J the difference is we’re civilised people with morals. Don’t get me wrong I’d love to wrap a crowbar round a terrorists jaw, however if the government grabbed one of them and skinned them alive starting at the toes they’re would be millions crying “They’re still people!!” “They were forced to do it!!!” “But but human rights!!” As far as I care they lost their rights the moment they stripped someone else of theres. If you’ll happily burn an innocent man alive you’re not a person, you’re dirt that’s aware of its surroundings.
@@dcypher3657 Shouldn't we strive to not become like that? How are we better if we become just like them?
@@dcypher3657 It's not about what they do. It's about what the US government does. If it has standards and principles, it has to live by them. According to Title 18 of the US State Code, torture is "an act committed by a person acting under the color of law specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control", and if you read on, the threat of pain of suffering falls under that definition. Waterboarding is the threat of physical harm, which causes mental suffering, and is undeniably torture.
Now, the question becomes: does the US government commit acts of torture? If the answer is no, then there should be no waterboarding. If the answer is "no, unless...", then it's yes. Because there is no such thing as suspending your principles - otherwise they're simply not principles anymore.
If you think what ISIS (or domestic right-wing terrorists for that matter) does, should directly result in whatever "means to an end" can be put to use, then that's a position to choose. But then you're saying: the US government practices torture to get information in certain cases. The implication of that is that the US would immediately have to get off their high horse on any other human rights subject, and has no moral highground anymore to tell other nations what to do.
And I don't think the US government is ready to relinquish that moral highground. THAT'S the ballgame. Not kindergarten logic of the familiar format of "yes but he...!!!"
Joe Rogan in 2018: "I've never been tortured - I don't know what it's like"
Joe Rogan 2019: Neil Degrasse Tyson
LOL!
CHUCKDANIELS1 is it cause he kept getting interrupted?
@@unrelentingdischarge8544 yes sir. Not a big deal... just a running gag.
This joke is going over my head.. Can someone explain it to me, I want to laugh too..
Is Tyson the torture?
wowwwwww rewd. :)
I got voluntarily waterboarded in highschool by some swim team buddies just for fun, four of them held me down on a bench so I wouldn't thrash while two poured the water. It was one of the worst experiences in my life, like if hell was underwater, but the moment they stopped I stood up and acted like it was nothing, all because I didn't want to look like a pussy in front of everyone, even today when it comes up in conversation I act as if it was nothing. I can tell this guy is doing the exact same thing.
Imagine thinking as nerd who was on the swim team you can even come close to comparing yourself to an ex marine that was deployed 20+ times. Shut up lmao
I think his point is more that real torture doesn't generally end with you able to stand up and act fine.
@@horstnietzsche1923 well his point is stupid lol
Yeah dude, anyone saying it's not torture is beyond foolish
I love when he brings up that he is so much tougher than Crowder because Crowder couldn't handle it, but this guy is military, Crowder isn't. That doesn't make Crowder a coward. What a terrible argument he made.
"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster"
-Nietzsche
Ironic how Americans feel moral superiority over literally ANYBODY. The sheer amount of copium needed...
ese wei...
Surely getting "tortured" by people you trust and you know mentally there is no harm coming to you, is not the same as being strapped on a table in a room with people you know have 0 respect for you and your life.
DeliriumzzZ are we also ignoring the fact that you don’t know when you’re going to be released, if ever. That’s huge. Not only are you being tortured but you could be a prisoner for a year and be tortured every day, and this guy just says that doesn’t work lol okay
Bakers Dozen yep fear of the unknown is the worst fear to have imo.
DeliriumzzZ I agree , I am curious though as to how you would deal with scenarios overseas when dealing with these said people who are not in any way reflective of a human being. They are the lowest of the low: Unspeakable and horrific crimes. It is very hard to have these discussions when no one really understands truly how things need to be handled when American lives are at stake. I think this psychological abuse that you speak of is a product of the capture in its entirety. Why put emphasis of psychological torture on one act when the whole entire process is what is causing this degradation and deep rooted psychological damage?
Honestly, they are trained to protect American lives. Which is what he repeats over and over again. If he died during torture from a terrorist group, then at least it was him instead of hundreds if not thousands of Americans.
That's what makes it effective.
Vsauce has a good MindField video on fear, and he concluded that the most fearful a human can ever be is through suffocation, combined with a lack of control. Emphasis on the lack of control.
Boy am I glad that combat veteran Vsauce have us his 2 cents 🙄
MikeCharlieAlpha vsauce has access to thousands of different veterans and tools me and you have never heard of. Because he’s not a veteran doesn’t mean he can’t understand what people fear the most.
Thats subjective as fuck, and not gospel, like most Vsauce fanboys think.
Make up your own damn mind
@@michaeljohnsonbaugh7962 have you actually watched the episode? its pretty interesting even if you dont agree with it.
UTubeCorruptAntiFreeSpeechLiberalCo You sound like a moron. Doesn’t seem like you’ve ever watched a mind field series in your life, so you have no right to comment on it. Every episode is made using experts.
If a man with strong resolve can withstand something like waterboarding, and that's one of the factors that decides whether or not something is torture, then you could apply that to any kind of enhanced interrogation techniques. A man, with strong enough resolve could take beatings, starvations, nails driven through their hands, etc. so does that not count as torture either?
Jesus did it, stop being a pussy.
Those aren't even close to the same unless you are trying to say that a man with a strong resolve can survive being starved, or his resolve can make him impervious to nails. The question was never about if he would crack and give up information, it was that the physical sensation is not as bad as people make it out to be and it's more about your mentality. Driving nails through your hands or surviving on zero calories is not about your mentality. The only thing waterboarding actually does is scare someone into thinking they might die. Let me repeat. The ONLY thing waterboarding does is scare someone. That is what he showed. Starving, beating, or nails through the hands is not just scaring someone. THAT is the difference between torture and this.
@@rickh5088 you’re just scaring someone into thinking they’ll die multiple times 🤡
@@rickh5088
Starving someone and splitting their nails also is not killing them though. Why draw the line there? Can I pull a gun, rack it back and start blasting next to the a prisoner's ear?
I'm not killing them, I'm just scaring them. Can I pull a knife out on their throat and tell them I'm going to skin their kids alive whilst showing pictures of them?
Is this even all worth it, to burn our reputation over this? I get that this stuff is sensitive intelligence, but 10 years later I would hope to have evidence of how many lives they saved with this.
If so, if they present it, then we would all be more convinced this is the way to go forward (minus some die hard moralists).
@@rickh5088
POV Guy with rick and Morty pfp explains why you're wrong and hes right
"If you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you"
The abyss being war crimes in this guys case
exactly
Yeah war crimes are in his eyes lol
Lol@@RobFingerbleedsfrom6
Tim is obviously a brave guy and a warrior but either through a bit of a deficit in intelligence or extreme bias due to his chosen profession and traumas, he is ironically one of the last people you'd want making these sorts of estimations and decisions.
Water boarding is unequivocally, unambiguously torture. Giving someone the sensation of drowning is torture. You can subjectively say it's not as bad as chopping someone's finger off, or whatever, but it's clearly torture.
The electric chair is actually just an intense massage chair
Facts !
Well have you ever been waterboarded? Or are you just ignorant?
Big facts
La Vas it appears as if you did not get the joke
And think about how relaxed people are afterward
Pulling finger nails isn't torture, it's just a permanent manicure.
Having your teeth pulled out just eliminates any possibility of getting tooth ache in the future. It's actually quite helpful and I'll definitely be requesting it should I be kidnapped.
Dont plz
He's saying that waterboarding is very tame in comparison to other ways they could torture you and he's right. There are much worse things than waterboarding
@@elocore1702 how extreme the waterboarding is, is up to the people doing it. im sure i could turn it into torture, hell, i could keep dumping water onto someone untill they drown.
fingernails will grow back
he knows his logic is flawed, every time joe rebuddles against him Tim just takes a pause and redirects the question
He is a psychopath. He knows what he needs to say to get ahead in his career and he doesnt give one single fk if it is the truth or not. As long as it advances him, he will do or say anything necessary.
I know what torture is: I've committed it ~ Tim War Criminal Kennedy
????
Pouring water on someone's face isn't waterboarding. Strapping a person to a board, tilting the board with the head lower, putting a soaked rag in their mouth, putting another soaked rag on their face, pouring huge amounts of water on their chest, (even hold their nose closed), and pour water on the face and mouth. You keep doing it until their lungs almost fill with water. They drown and you revive them, punch them in the stomach to help them expel the water as one way to do so (often ribs are cracked). You keep doing that for hours and hours, days and days. This does cause one to say anything that they think that you want to hear to make it stop.
People that test it often aren't doing it the real way. Plus you know that it will stop because it's just a test. You know that it won't last hours or days. You know for a fact that medical attention is on hand. People care if you lose consciousness or die.
Right on point. This guy is a fucking moron.
@@brandons5782 America are not the police of the world.
foley15136 how do you know this? Have you been present when someone is Being water boarded?
@@nickraad77 lol right?
@@jaymonkey1456 "World Police" Is a title that came from the US Military's invasion of other countries and calling it a "police action" so that Congress doesn't have to formally declare war.
He makes it sound like they're getting a shower.
Because he's a sociopathic piece of shit narcissist.
@@FlyManChimera and you a pussy that would give up your own mother when questioned by a mall cop.
Tactical baptism.
Wrong
who knows? As if America doesn’t kill innocent civilians including women and children with drone strikes? Pretty sure there’s plenty of evil to go around.
"Does this make me and all of my friends... immoral people?"
Yes. I love how Tim Kennedy expects others to have qualms about calling him a bad person.
Any practice designed to make the victim feel like they are in danger constitutes torture. That’s why mock executions are a form of psychological torture
I don’t think terrorists or mass murderers are capable of victimhood. Meaning when you commit atrocities you’re essentially turning in your human card. Torture to save lives=moral. Torture for punishment(with due process)=moral.
Torture for entertainment=immoral.
@@GetMoneyFuggBidges thank god you have no power to turn a country into some draconian hellscape
CIA must be proud of Tim Kennedy.
I know I am!
@@2WheelsTrav I'm proud of CIA for bringing down the twin towers. America is its best enemy.
@@1sanitat1 even better, I'm proud of the cia for peddling more drugs into the country than cartel...
@@mzc102908 They truly are patriots of completely different magnitude than an average person. Doing speedball is the ultimate patriot move and anyone who isn't supporting our brave troops by buying coke and heroin is a russian agent.
„Pouring water“ what a stupid way of saying it you d...head
"waterboarding is not torture because there are worse ways to torture" - Tim Kennedy 2018
Steve Austin lol
"thats how a brain works you damage it and it comes back stronger" Tim Kennedy 2018
Was thinking exactly that. Its like executing with shot in the head is ok because ive seen worst than that.
That's entirely the point I was going to write down too.
how about that incredibly reductionist "its just water!" argument? and then came in with the classic "but 911!!" what a bootlicker
Just because you're not slamming nails through someones hand does not mean it isn't torture. Pretty sure if I got waterboarded I would crumble immediately and be scarred for life from the experience. Torture is the act of inflicting severe pain or suffering on somone, don't know about you but I would call being upside down in a hostile environment with a constant sensation of drowning suffering.
His argument basically came down to 'it's not hardcore enough to be torture'
It's just not as severe as other forms of torture
@@shaolinsoccerisashittymovi7232 No one is saying that it is
Yeah because it’s not fair to other things labeled as torture
Well to be fair, there has to be a line between what makes something torture, and I think we can both agree that if waterboarding is torture it certainly isn’t anywhere near the level of torture that you’d see from isis or CJNC. It definitely isn’t anywhere near the worst torture out there. Does that mean it doesn’t cross the line into torture? I have no clue, I’m just some college kid in the suburbs who’s thankfully never had to find out
@@shaolinsoccerisashittymovi7232
People dle from being Waterboarded. To be repeatedly brought close to death and back again sounds pretty damn awful to me…. This Tim prlck I don’t believe for one moment he was actually Waterboarded. Not properly
It’s not just someone spilling water on you. The point of it is to simulate drowning. He’s the only one I’ve ever heard from who’s been water boarded who says it’s not torture. Sure there are worse forms but he clearly did it just to be able to say it’s not torture.
He's just trying to act tough, he experienced the same thing as everyone else the entire time and when he stood up he pretended it was nothing
How many fuckin people do you know who've been waterboarded? Might want to find a new job. ISIS isn't gonna be around much longer.
@@GenericProtagonist7 congratulations, you just discovered how different humans have different tolerances. Want a cookie?
"Simulating" drowning? Sorry...it "IS" drowning. If the waterboarding was not halted...you would drown. That's not a simulation...it's controlled drowning that can be started at stopped on demand.
@@shenanigans5183 he said he pretended. He knows it’s a horrid experience and he’s pretending he didn’t hate it.
Starving people is not torture, it's just a really effective diet
"Mandatory fasting"
Ya like fat camp for bad people hahaha
Fasting...................
@@J.JamesTheKid. It's called fasting, because it's. Speed running to skinny
Dylan Fenton it’s called “sarcastic joke” because I’m being sarcastic and commenting a joke.
"Listen Joe, I've done war crimes, alright? Multiple times. Water isn't that bad"
"Here's the deal, Jack, if a couple hundred thousand innocents need to die and thousands of completely innocent bystanders need to get tortured to calm our violent Islamophobia, you gotta do what you gotta do"
Snowflake corner?
@@theohuioiesin6519 let's waterboard you and see how you like it, tough guy
Mose Schrute why waterboard an innocent person when you can Waterboard terrorists who deserve it?
@@jamesd7495 Because then they'll whine about it being a socialist conspiracy that they read on a QAnon forum.
This psycho calling people he apparently tortured “impotent little bullies” is the hardest projection I’ve ever heard in my life.
Seriously what ru even talking about…first off he never said HE tortured, waterboarded or did anything like that to anyone. He was talking about the type of people whom our government used tactics like waterboarding on. People who were more often than not connected in some way to terrorism. Impotent little bullies is putting it extremely nicely, do you think they’re good people? If it weren’t for people like this “psycho” they’d be over here beheading us for our western way of life. What world do you live in? Pro tip: try and make the slightest attempt to listen to a video before you comment something with no shred of accuracy it’s a good way to not look stupid. Got me defending Tim Kennedy and I don’t even like him
Wait he's the one who did that stuff?
you do realize the people he's calling that raped, ACTUALLY tortured, and killed people on a daily basis. Your perception of evil is severely misguided.
"If you isolate them and take away all their power, they crumble and cave. I need that power. Waterboarding is like asking someone a pointed question." This dude's blood is literally red white and blue kool-aid.
This man is just lowkey owning up to waterboarding the shit outta people in the past I swear
Probably true, it's not just running water over people's heads, it's literally drowning them but also keeping them alive. It's def. Torture, just not as gruesome
He literally said he watched a guy who was being interrogated get his throat slit?
@@MuaythaiMuaythai yea you dumb fuck they were being interrogated by isis
he admitted to killing peopel, they seserved it tho.
Waterboarding is all fun and games until Ahmed decides to put a towel on your face. try calling it harmless then
One of Joe Rogans finest Moments. He addresses a delicate issue respectfully, without raising his voice or showing annoyance. Raising concerns patiently and eventually showing your opposite your point of view without embarrassing them isn’t easy.
@Exec Utize And to judge the level of ridiculousness of someone's opinion does not require any level of expertise or experience from your point of view?
Everyone here seems to mock his missing level of humbleness- ever looked to the mirror?
@Exec Utize If you want to see a person who holds ridiculous beliefs, change those ridiculous beliefs, you don't mock them. Mockery is the language of war.
You listen, you converse and you get the individual to open their mind by speaking their "language". Then you offer the better perspective (if you have that perspective)
This is how Jacque Fresco and Daryl Davis converted hundreds of KKK members to see rationality (separate endeavors by those two men)
Nobody knows how to do that anymore... its an epidemic.
@@ZeroFucksLeft Nice
@@ZeroFucksLeft Exactly. If you mock them you will just cause them to go on the defensive and they will shut themselves off from even considering your point of view. They will stubbornly hold on to their beliefs just because you mocked them. If you want to stand a chance at causing someone to change their beliefs you have to give them a way to do it without feeling like they are "losing" an argument if they give in. You have to be respectful, and give them the time to consider whatever it is that you have to say, and if they agree with it, and it persuades them to change their belief, they may admit to it, but only if it doesn't make them feel completely undermined.
This guy is a living example of how someone could convince themselves to commit genocide. He just needs to take a few more steps.
What a dumb thing to say, you are the type of person who also considers putting someone in jail torture b/c it hurts their feelings.
The German farm boys went to bayonetting Polish babies pretty damn quick. All you need to release the monster inside is permission.
Anyone can be convinced of extrajudicial killing or torture if they think someone is a "bad" person.
Well this comment was certainly ahead of its time
This man is horrible. Evil. Unbelievable.
I love the way Rogans face looks through this entire interview hes like holy hell man is this guy serious LMFAO
Where
I don’t mind joe but he’s a pussy on a lot of topics
@@Keka-vg3ut the entire video, especially when he defines torture and then Tim’s like “I guess we need a definition for torture”
"I've never been tortured."
Man, the Adam Conover podcast must have been so terrible for joe, he blocked it out of his memory.
He was being tortured in this very interview by this thick as pig shit guest 😂
Saker dude what is wrong with you?
@@ericsweeney7406 he is tho?
Saker at least show some respect. No need to be a douche about it just because you disagree
Saker he speaks many languages and could literally covertly replace a government in a foreign country in a number of months with a small team. “Thick as pig shit” must be referring to his muscle mass because that’s the only way that description would fit. Meanwhile, you’re probably nothing more than a lump in a chair typing out BS because your anonymity makes you think you’re cool 😆
"what if I hit em with a phone book" - Tim Kennedy
Tim "it's not torture because I've done it to people" Kennedy
aj mazzaro way to take things out of context
KingGrizzly 78 lol it’s not taking anything out of context. That’s why he supports torture because he has done it. Every other piece of ‘context’ in this video is him trying to justify his actions. I guarantee if he was caught and tortured he would sound more like John McCain than Hideki Tojo.🤔
Hayden Johnson didn’t he say that torture doesn’t work because at some point the person being tortured will tell you anything you want to hear, even if it isn’t true
If you go up against him in the octagon that definitely would be torture
Hayden Johnson who cares if he has
I'd say piloting a plane into a building must involve some sort of strong conviction.
And rest assured, if Joe was getting waterboarded for hours he'd admit to being vegan by the end of it.
Yeah and talking as though the plane can bring down the building and everything in response is by the Geneva convention means he has no convictions. Joined military to kill nothing else.
THANK YOU
Not really if they are hoped up on drugs like the kamikazee pilots. They would take a bunch of drugs before their suicide missions. That doesn’t take a lot of convictions if you don’t really know what’s going on. But the planning phase of that had to be insane
@@jackjon7763 I don't think so. You would still know you're about to die and deal with it exactly the same way. Exactly the same convictions would be required to take the drug for the same purpose. Not that there's any reason to think they used drugs anyway. It's very difficult to fly a plane and do all that happened before that
El Taino look up Hiropon
In an industrial job, I drilled a hole through my thumbnail into the bone, by accident. 20-years later, I STILL remember it. Same employer, I also nearly cut a finger off on a grinder (which was re-attached)...again, I STILL remember it. Being tied down KNOWING either were about to happen...and maybe worse...yeah, it's torture, so either accept it, or stop doing it. I spent 21-years in the Marine Corps and retired after more than one 'Desert Campaign'...I've seen war, and most of what Tim Kennedy has seen...it doesn't change anything...either ENGAGE COMBATANTS in war, or don't. THIS IS EXACTLY what a 'primarily asynchronous warfare' (special forces) war looks like...abductions, torture, limited strikes...and MINIMAL IMPACT to any real facilitator of the war itself. Either we 'are better than them', or 'we are them'...there are far worse things than death...and MANY of the tactics employed now are just that. It's also how we ended up dealing with torture in Vietnam...because S-2 (intelligence) decided SpecOps had to validate 'enemy dead' by removing ears...never realizing the theological impact this caused (to disfigure the dead is abomination, as they will return in reincarnation in the same dismembered state). We are merely teaching greater evil to be returned to us. Death in war is often honorable...dismemberment or torture are tools of the weak and dishonorable that will return to you with terrible interest, in most cases.
wow. thx for that input. this comment should be put somewhere prominent.
He would be a perfect villain for a film
“I could waterboard you for days” - Tim Kennedy
Lmfaoooo. Joe in his head is like woee, hope I could live up to his expectations.
@@nikolairose2739 hahahahaha
😋
Waterboard me baby!!! Woooooo!! You know who else likes getting waterboarded!?!
MY MOM!!
GREAT example of how a quote can give the opposite impression of reality when taken out of context.
Water boarding isnt torture and the Military Industrial Complex isnt a war mongering, profit generating machine.
And Senate and Congress tell the truth about everything, you can trust every politician, and the grass is not green
Ryan Black it’s cuz of ignorant people like you that this shit still goes on
connor hess he’s being sarcastic
connor hess the irony is palpable
It's funny. He's seen torture everywhere except the United States.
like GITMO
it happens but not out in the open..
@@seemssafe2995 that worm has more blood on his hands than any other normal american citizen. he went to kill people and didn't think for himself. now he knows what shit america did world wide, and with blood on his hands he didnt mention them once?
aighty than. challenge accepted.
onTopic: when someone put his city into ashes incl. his family, perhaps than he know what tourture is. BUT WAY TO LATE.
Whatever hippie
Inflicting scare and horror into a person to extract information is torture, no matter if you like it or not.
Not justifying nor against water boarding, but it’s a little more than “pouring water” on someone’s face.
is it tho ? if you mess up a dive in the pool that's gonna hurt
we're just not fish man
oxi tocin what?
i have no idea what was the logic behind that but it made a lot of sense when i wrote it back then xDDDD
No physical harm done, right? It really is just water.
@@oxitocin7718, it's to simulate drowning. Plus they're gonna beat you, spit on you, lock you away in a cage. Walk you on a leash and collar like a dog. Feed you the bare minimum.
Rogan got a point. The psychological issues is clearly different in a tv studio or at enemy soil.
True, but the real point is that waterboarding is not actually "physically" harming the individual, just giving them the sense of being drowned. So it is arguably more humane than torture where bodily harm is done. And it's war, fight to win or don't fight. All bets are off.
Michael DeAmicis The diskussion is about his claim a tv study ain’t the same as being in a tv facilities.
Not to mention if you get the wrong guy who is completely innocent. Thank goodness the US has never done that.
K2 Mally I guess you are joking. As far as I know, they stopped executing people in prison, because the new toll known as DNA. Another thing I think he’s becoming a monster fighting other monsters. War never determined who’s right but who’s left. ( quote Bertrand Russell) humanity has shown over centuries that we are able to justify any kind of violence,especially when money, religion and politics is above common sense. We need to evolve all of us to become better humans. Normally I’m a positive person, but due to humanity I don’t think we ever will get away from violence solutions. Let the Middle East be,and other insane countries. And boycott these to a grade they need to evolve from insane suppressing leaders. And we should stay away from them ASAP
Soldiers get PTSD that have never been "physically harmed"
I get what he’s saying it’s that real torture every man has a breaking point so if u use real torture everyone and anyone will eventually break. He’s saying water boarding isn’t that cause for a person of principles and convictions they can withstand water boarding without breaking no matter how many times it’s done to them. Like how yelling at someone isn’t torture cause no matter how many times u do it a person with conviction and belief in what they are doing isn’t going to crack. Idk if that’s true or not since I’ve never been waterboarded but I think that’s what he’s trying to say.
It is sad that people still think alqueda was jealous...
and ignore the truth....
911 was insurance fraud
I can assure you that it is not true... the fact that he describes waterbaording as "just pouring water on someone's face" shows how out of touch with reality Tim Kennedy is. He calls people cowards and pussys whilst torturing them....
It can deprive your brain of oxygen, it can fill your lungs with water and send your body into shock. If thats not torture then I don't know what is 🤷♂️
I'm 100% sure I could break anyone via waterboarding. If done correctly, it is absolutely torture, especially if combined with sleep deprivation, which real waterboarding is.
The only question is, does torture get you the "truth" or the answers you want to hear?
It's actually one of the worst types
People who say they’ve been waterboarded and yeah it was unpleasant but its not torture - they haven’t been waterboarded where they cant stop it when it gets too much.
Anyone can get waterboarded for 10 seconds then say “yeah that sucks but its not that bad”.
Try getting water boarded for hours and you can’t make me stop - and everytime i do it you know you cant make me stop
Next week: Tim Kennedy on broken bones:
Tim: Breaking a bone is not an injury.
Joe: How is a broken bone not an injury?
Tim: Look, when I was risking my life for this country, I saw people get their limbs blown off, I saw people get shot in the face, I saw people get crushed to death.
Joe: How does that relate at all?
Tim: It's just a broken bone. Getting decapitated is an injury. Breaking a bone is not.
LMFAO the amount of people in the military I've met who think like this is hilarious.
"Tis but a flesh wound"
- Tim Kennedy
Being Water boarded is what it takes for him to achieve an erection so he thinks of it as pleasurable not torture...
I handle a broken bone better than crowder so it's fine.
'Tis but a scratch
he tries to downplay the torture aspect by saying "we're just pouring water on their face." That's like saying that all you do when shocking someone with electrodes is "we're just flipping a switch." They're inducing the panic fear of drowning on someone. Torture. And if anyone did this to American soldiers who were captured, we'd immediately call it that.
If the late Christopher Hitchens (who volunteered to get waterboarded) is to be believed, it doesn't just induce the fear of drowning. At a point, you actually start drowning.
It is happening to Americans tho, in the middle east
@@oliverradivan434 where they don't belong
I think Kennedy talked about that. It sounded like things MUCH worse than waterboarding were happening. Thats the point. These animals needed to be stopped and we needed information. It worked and the animals were not physically harmed.
Oliver Radivan ... and so if the enemy does, then we should do it? You wanna go down that rabbit hole, Oliver?
If you volunteer it's not torture, if you are held against your will and have no chance to escape and feel the terror of the inability to fight back or have the waterboarding stop, then without a doubt it's torture. It has nothing to do with toughness or being a macho dude.
I always thought the issue with torture was not that people wouldn't break, it's that people who didn't know the answers to what you are asking would just make up answers for the torture to end.
But what if they actually have the answers?
@@dillweed501 They die with them or they value their life enough to not and tell all.
Torture has been proven as ineffective. Good cop-Bad cop is shown to be the most effective method of interrogation.
Simple as that.
@@amadeusakreveusmusic3356 Bitch-girlfriend, overbearing mom is way worse.
@@amadeusakreveusmusic3356 Let me see the study that says "good cop, bad cop" works better than torture. Lmfao, quit talking shit man.
@@amadeusakreveusmusic3356 source?
You can dose someone with LSD and put them in horrible situations for long periods of time without physically hurting them, but that's also torture.
Sounds like government sponsored programs lol.
LSD is no joke trust me I took that shit and I wanted to kill my self
@@nna2354 You did it wrong.
I would rather have a bad trip than have my shoulders broken and finger nails pulled out
the right dose of LSD in the right setting is one of the best experiences you'll ever have,
but if you're first time is a high dose, you're stressed and mentally not in a good place to begin with, you can have a seriously bad trip.
That's weird, because the Japanese waterboarded US POWs during WW2 and we called it torture back then
Yeah of course, when we do it it’s never torture; we always do the right thing here.
sactown916 are you fucking stupid?
Well they also burned out their eyes with lit cigarettes and shoved bamboo splinters under their fingernails. As Kennedy said, it becomes torture when you start adding things on top of them
Thurgor Supreme now that's weird, cause I dont think tim is from ww2
That's the least the Japanese did.
Man's calling "them" deranged and saying "they" do torture because they're evil while he does torture because he must, while casually talking about bringing people to Abu Ghraib. He's completely detached from reality to justify whatever really gnarly shit he's done
Well nobody said fighting evil was supposed to be pretty.
@@farzana6676 "fighting evil" said the man, defending the world's largest terrorist organisation
@@farzana6676 didn't know they could cast "detect good and evil" spell
@@farzana6676 how can you prove your brain is more rational than someone else's? How can you prove german and soviet soldiers during WW2 or russian now are less rational than american soldiers? What's even "evil" and how does someone find it? Is it an objective truth?
Don't overthink it. Evil is subjective and everyone sees themselves as a hero fighting against evil.
@@helgenlane It's simple. Apply an objective test.
The ones that throws gays off buildings and blow themself up for the promise of 72 virgins in heaven are the evil, and the ones that hunt them are the good guys.
Don't overthink it.
If you're trying to convince me that waterboarding isn't torture, it doesn't help when you talk about how awful the people are that you're waterboarding. That has nothing to do with whether or not it is torture, that has something to do with whether or not they deserve to be tortured!
Tim is essentially making the 'it is torture' point better than I could.
I kno for a fact that he tortured a few people in his life 😂😂😂
Yeah he has done some dark shit for sure.
He misses it clearly
Vinnie Thompson he’s definitely killed many scum bags throughout his military career
Snaggle Toothed These radical groups in the Middle East are the ones killing innocent people. And I’m sure Tim has merked a few terrorist scum bags in his time with special forces. That’s a fact, quit being a little 🐶
He was pretty triggerd
The misunderstanding is that waterboarding is not just pouring water on someone's face. It's primarily a form of psychological torture with a physical component, similar to sleep deprivation or confinement (3-foot cube). I've seen the results of real waterboarding and it's torture. One person committed suicide because he couldn't live with the nightmares. Another has trouble drinking (any liquid) because he always thinks he's going to drown. These are ex-military... Rangers, etc. and ex-State Department, as well as professional civilians. They are not cowards and they are not wusses... they've been tortured.
The person has to believe that you're not going to stop until you tell them what they want to hear. The person needs to inhale some water and keep on pouring. You have to know that there is a very real chance that you will die. That's waterboarding. It leaves people seriously messed up in the head and unable to function as a normal person... usually for life.
I understand what Kennedy is saying, but Rogan gets it... The whole point is that you don't know how it's going to turn out. It might not be physically scarring, but it's still torture. You'll say anything to make it stop when you believe that it won't stop until you talk (or die). It's worth noting here that there are plenty of ways to torture someone physically that leave no visible marks or other physical evidence.
This whole argument against waterboarding being torture is simply the CIA and State Department wanting to be able to say that waterboarding is not technically torture so that they can feel like they're not wrong in using it. It's like justifying stealing by redefining it as "borrowing indefinitely." Similarly, the buzzword "Discomfort" is just another way of saying "Pain" that allows torturers to justify what they do in their own minds.
It's worth noting that prominent English dictionaries as well as international organizations do not specify that torture must specifically involve physical pain... torture can be either mental or physical. Most commonly, as in the case of waterboarding, torture is a combination of mental (psychological) and physical discomfort/pain.
Agreed
Remember when Christopher Hitchens said waterboarding wasn't tortured and had it done to him? I gave in after a few seconds and immediately came up saying he was wrong and that it defiantly is torture. That dude was real af.
Yes, just rewatched the waterboarding of Christopher Hitchens again. He said it was worse than drowning. The water makes you hold your breath which sucks the towel into your mouth and nostrils so you feel like you are both drowning and suffocating. He also forgot the safe word he was in such a panic and threw the metal objects he was holding to the floor rather than just casually dropping them like he was told to.
We get the moral high ground because we don't do the shit they do. You start losing that when you hand wave away the fucked shit we do cause "they're worse then us"
We do to them what we do, which is nothin in comparison to what they do to us and each other. Now you wanna be a bitch and argue against us and defend them then maybe you don’t belong here! go live amongst those people and see how long you live! you’ll see shit that makes anything we do look like baking a cake. 🖕🏽
You want him on that wall. You NEED him on that wall.
You get the moral high ground because your opinion is that you are better, that's arrogance not morality.
Morality isn't objective.
No actually you gain it when you understand that the fucked shit we do also follows up with media criticism and getting voted out. We've made mistakes and have done our best at correcting injustice (no one is perfect) they are worse than us do they have a constitution? Do they allow women to drive? Do they constantly have corrupt regimes one after the other? No. Do not compare us to them. One breaks a window the other burns an orphanage. We are not the same. Yes, our government has done bad things but since they've been around longer they are much worse to each other and others. Still fighting about a massacre at Mosque centuries if not a millennia ago.
Sounds like you're sticking up for terrorists. Act like cockroaches, get squished like the bug you are
So why did we execute Japanese servicemen convicted of waterboarding American servicemen during WW2?
@@birish21 Hey Stupid! www.mediamatters.org/national-review/nros-hemingway-gets-history-wrong-accusing-begala-botching-facts What was that? Did you say something? crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/correction-we-actually-did-execute-j
AhemAhem chirp chirp
AhemAhem
Lol dumbass
Would you happen to be a communist?
Waterboarding was a small portion of japanese war crimes against POWs (good example is decapitation contest) and that was over 60 years ago. Opinions do change with time, not saying youre wrong but using a different era for ideas now isnt 100% solid
This Guy may think a bit highly of himself
Yea his arguments are weak
The fuck is wrong with this guy
@N.A.R Channel So he's in shape and wanted to prove himself. Now he's god? Can do no wrong? Lol this guy would get DESTROYED in any debate club in the world.
@N.A.R Channel you can be a green beret and still be a fucking idiot tho
@N.A.R Channel i'm just saying. not necessarily in the case of tim kennedy, but as a general rule. being a green beret is a hell of a thing, but it is still possible to be an asshole. most sf guys are alright, some are dicks
"I think I‘m a very moral person"😂😂
This dude cracks me up
Whos saved tons of lives and done more to actually help and save people than you ever will.
Morality is apparently more complex than you would ever care to admit.
@@cosmicbilly saving lives and helping people is possible without committing war crimes buddy. If you want to say committing war crimes is necessary to actually help people, then say that. But don’t try to hide behind this morality bullshit. War crimes are not moral. Period.
@@joeschmo9953 Whats your point? Are you suggesting committing war crimes can be the moral thing to do?
@@Livingston_Seagull Why can't cosmic hide behind morality bs? You hide behind fake laughter. I think the only moral path is to avoid war at any reasonable cost. Once at war the goal is to win. Anything else is an out and out lie.
I like how ya played that waterboarding part, get Joe on ur side..
"See joe your not like that" lol😄
Bru. doesn't matter who you are if you start aspirating on water you're gonna panic..
"I know torture very intimately.... I've looked at it."
????
he sounded like someone bragging about knowing what its like to get abused. kinda off putting tbh
Looool Tim is an idiot, how does someone seeing people tortured know how it feels. What kind of stupid guy is this loool
I did 2 when I played GTA!
s a he’s been in war countless number of times and if u ever heard his war stories he tells a story where around 300 fighters surrounded him and his team. They were in a gunfight for 3 days and lost guys and everyone of them thought they were going to die. Imagine being in that situation having to fight and kill people, knowing your going to die and also seeing your best friends get killed right in front of your eyes. In my opinion that is torture. He said he’s seen people get tortured and if u see that u can still have feeling about how that person is feeling. He probably is more qualified to talk about this that 99.9% if people alive
Tim "waterboarding was the least violent of my war crimes" Kennedy.🤣
And it most certainly was a war crime make no mistake. A passing knowledge of the Geneva convention tells you this.
War crimes? When are you fucking pussies going to realize that there are a lot of really fucked up people in this world and that when dealing with these animals you need to use extreme measures? I was told in basic training all about the things we couldn't do when dealing with the enemy. The hell with that. If it's a choice between me and that human piece of shit who's trying to kill me, you can bet I would have used any and all means available to make sure it wasn't me. Both you and chig bungus need to grow a pair and man the fuck up.
@@chigbungus5257 Geneva conventions concerns is with prisoners and non combatants. Are you fucking dumb? Dude killed SOLDIERS non civilians. Like stfu
Waterboarding is definitely a fantastic way to get what you need. Definitely not torture. 😁👌
Walter = slbdpp
I really admire Tim Kennedy and believe he’s a true patriot and a good man but when you start referring to people as animals you lose me. At the end of the day they are humans. Once you start to dehumanize an individual anything is possible. Everything is on the table
Rapists and murderers gave up their rights to be treated as humans the second they decided to rape and murder people. They are fucking animals and deserve to be murdered and raped to death, by the biggest and blackest of cocks.
hes too far on the GI Joe spectrum, he is a zombie reading a mental script
You have to or you die but I get what you mean
In general I agree with you. I understand Tim's position as well. At some point the darkest forms of human behavior are so terrible that only something worse, something inhumane and devoid of redeeming quality, could be responsible.
I mean everything IS on the table in the real world. People can live their whole lives without one bad thing happening and then by sheer bad luck end up chopped up in a suitcase. We're all one unlucky moment away from the absolute worst people are capable of. Most people don't like to think about it cause honestly it's scary and it sucks, but the reality of it is that at any given moment of any given day absolute inhuman shit is going down
I’ve gone water boarding several times, if I were captured by the enemy and they took me water boarding I’d still have fun idk how it can be compared to torture.
I totally believe you
@@thepr1ntgnome430 read it again, but slower this time.
If you think you need to torture someone because you truly think It'd save lives then just say so. I would respect that far better then trying to downplay it.
Exactly. Stand by what you believe. He also said vets who have PTSD are pussies and should just suck it up, and then backtracked. STAND BY what you say, Tim. Is that so hard, being the supreme alpha male you are?
it is about PR and the reputation of the USA. Everybody knows they are full of shit and monsters but if they say they don't torture it just sounds better.
yeah, my issue is that a lot of the people involved in the interrogation program said that the people who were tortured weren't giving any usable. if you were getting good information, it would be messed up, but I could live with it
@Chris M they are ALSO monsters. But at least they don't claim to spread freedom and democracy. They are pretty honest about the fact that they are terrorists and full of shit.
To be fair he did say that several times directly and indirectly
Tim "I was just offering them a glass of water filtered through a towel over their face" Kennedy
Is there a multi filter option please ?
I respect his service but I don't think he's thinking clearly here. If you do something to make a person feel like their drowning, and they can't make it stop, that's torture. Is it the worst torture? I know there are worse things you can do to people but it's still torture.
Reasonable reply. I agree
Waterboarding is just a slow way of drowning and suffocation a person. If its painful or causes suffering then it's torture. Suffering includes pain and distress and distress is causing severe anxiety or pain. So does oxygen deprivation and water in your lungs hurt or make you anxious? Apparently not, it's just some water on the face.
Dude this guy, Tim Kennedy, is ABSOLUTELY what Nietzsche was talking about when he said "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you."
Its why Batman does not break his no kill rule. He knows he will be gone, just like the joker
@@TheCoffeeNut711 lol ok what
Exactly was wondering if anyone else came to this conclusion. He thinks he is virtuous but really he is no better than those he despises and you can tell from the hate and resentment in his voice.
War is hell. Others sacrifice everything so you can pretend to be a philosopher and type stupid shit on your keyboard. Fuck off.
Water boarding isn’t torture I was waterboarded in Afghanistan by enemy troops and they couldn’t break me. Waterboarding feels like you’re drowning but there isn’t no lasting physical effect
I’m so glad joe challenged him and fractured his ego a little bit pointing out how he could never understand if he hasn’t been captured on enemy soil, and how he cannot tapout in a street fight
As clever as Joe Rogan is ... he is definitely not nearly as clever as Tim Kennedy when it comes to war
It's just opinions mate
And to be honest when you want an opinion on war would you rather ask a special forces soldier that has served 18 years or a podcast host ?
@@rubendutoit586 It's not just opinions, Joe challenged his argument of "I was waterboarded and I was fine" by saying that he might've been fine because he knew what was coming and that he was in a safe environment. Maybe if he was truly captured in a foreign soil without any assurances of his safety, who knows what would've happened. The point is, an experiment in a controlled environment can never be the same as the reality and you don't need to be an expert in any field to make the argument, you just need logic.
@@jimkohi5611 I totally agree with you in that regard
Only thing is not me, you , joe rogan or anyone in this comment section knows what a green beret soldier would do in that kind of environment should they be captured
only they will know 🙂
You're not talking about average people here remember that
It's so easy to sit at home typing on your keyboard saying this and saying that... these guys don't go through 15 months of training for nothing
I get what you are saying... but
You just need some "logic" as you would say to know you're not a green beret and your someone who sits at home with a pack of doritos on his keyboard and you'll never in your lifetime be the man Tim Kennedy is or any soldier is for that matter so don't argue with how his mind works
I respect Joe Rogan a lot but he's not a special forces soldier and he does not know how their minds work or how they have been trained and fact is he never will nor will you or me so nobody can say Tim is wrong
@@jimkohi5611 and fractured his ego 😂 I mean come on man ... ask your mom for your milk and go to sleep
@@rubendutoit586 bro that argument is so dumb. Is the US the only country with tough soldiers? Like this guy is sucking his own dixk and America’s dixk talking about “every guy that has ever snitched from water boarding is a coward” Lmaoo like the insanity to think none of these men who have been born and raised in fucking war zones are as tough as someone raised in the US is idiotic beyond measures. And for you to think that every green Beret is some fucking beast is also idiotic. You don’t know what will break you mentally until you’re there. There is no amount of prep you can do. Unless this man has been captured and tortured himself, at least ONE time then he’s also talking without knowing wtf he’s talking about. Trying to compare an experiment where he literally had to sign a waiver to being captured in war 😂😂😂😂
A key element of the horror of torture is the realization what you're facing will never end thats a huge element of it if you feel like you're going to be drowned for days, weeks, months. It gets alot worse then having some fun with your friends
Waterboarding is the adult bullying version of giving someone a swirly
Calls other humans animals. Easier to torture them that way
no it is objectivy easier for me to torture someone who wants to kill me for buring the quran than someone who doesn't
humans aren't above animals neccerily we are animals too but we're the only ones with memory storage in the form of paper disks and so on
think about that case with a baby being in the same cage as a gurilla in the zoo, your deadline wich is the survival of the baby is simply gone by the time you try to comminucate to the animal that "hey you're gonna kill it buddy you're too strong and that human baby is too fragile" i believe you could eventually teach guerrilas sign language but itll take years and you simply dont have that kind of time.
its the same with the terrorist you have to undo years and years of brainwash and fallacies and conformation bias it will take years of therapy and education that is not realistic it is not a deragetory term it is an equivlance you're just gonna die and gotta get away from that thing
and also becuase of revenge mechanisms and other tribal shit its just gonna feel good to punch a bunch of nazi..i mean terrorists
@John Weren well you're dumbass who doesn't understand the different kinds of morality you're a deontologist
a consequentialist would tell you it's immoral not to torture someone when you could save hundreds of lives
Well they were animals
Tim would be a Nazi if he grew up in post-WW1 Germany
@@adaptiveagile Nazis felt they were protecting their country's freedom...at any cost.
7:09 Tim admits that torture doesn't work to get actual info, just what the interrogater wants the person to say. So why would waterboarding be any different? Why would someone not tell you what you want to hear in order to make you stop waterboarding them? It's because waterboarding is torture. Tim says "its just water being poured on your face". The torture doesn't just come from the act itself, it comes from the monotony and repetition of the act. If he believes waterboarding doesn't even qualify as torture, I wonder what he thinks about Chinese water torture. Where they drip droplets of water onto you face or forehead in one focused spot for days on end until it drives you mad essentially. That IS torture, and all THAT is, is dripping water on your face.
his excuses of why people aren't joining or "able" to join are military is pathetically hilarious.
He’s a joke
People that hold crazy right wing views like this often contradict themselves pretty quickly in conversation
Wow he comes off kinda kooky here. Is he sure he hasn't been touched by ptsd???? Why would he brag about killing people????
Matt Lesner well the left is pretty fantastic at contradicting themselves too. and plenty of lazy concepts/positions there also.
“Waterboarding is just like pouring water on your face.” Kennedy
Saying waterboarding isnt torcher is insane
Joe: "So you knew you were completely safe during the whole thing?"
Tim: "Yes"
Joe: "So you agree that this is different than a real situation?"
Tim: "But that's beside the point"
Okay buddy
More like "you knew you could STOP it at any time."
Like you can't tickle yourself, it's a matter of CONTROL.
Tom Evans that control is kinda irrelevant when dealing with the torture though. The same physical sensation is felt, and the reaction to it doesnt really matter, because either way youre not really going to be damaged from it
Tom Evans and realistically I don’t think any of these people think that theyre going to be drowned to death. Drowning is an inefficient, relatively pain-free and simply ridiculous way to kill someone, especially when the water is being poured on you. Its a scare tactic at best, and any logical person could see that
@@bigboy8474 "drowning is pain-free" 😂😂😂😂
@@quixoticrage4190 yeah dude I giggled too
Ahhh the 9/11 defense
Chris Lucas that's how we ended up spending billions on a war aimed at finding "weapons of mass destruction" I was having a conversation with a fairly intelligent man about 6 months ago and he actually cited the WMDs as a legit reason for the war in Iraq. People here just don't want to move away from the tribal mentality that the media is propagating
PackersBucksBadgers1 When you doubt your powers, you give power to your doubts.
PackersBucksBadgers1 He who questions training only trains himself at asking questions.
Chris Lucas more like the 9/11 card, people play that card way to much, but the racist card is still the most effective in this politically correct country
Dashoost, what the hell are you talking about? The Global War on Terror did not initiate the war in Iraq. The Bush administration began the Iraq war under different pretenses than the GWoT.
the problem is if you were actually captured, you wouldnt know you were being waterboarded. for all you know your captors could be trying to drown you...thats literally why waterboarding works, it makes someone think they're being drowned. if you know you're being waterboarded then you know there is no risk of drowning.
it's easy to rationalize it, until you feel the water pouring down your nose
Just for context, Tim Kennedy's last 2 MMA fights were brutal knockouts to Yoel Romero and Kelvin Gastelum. His brain isn't firing at its best.
Love to see this over patriotic clown sparked like that 😂
Joe Rogan does a great job playing devil’s advocate for the sake of good conversation.
It's why his show is the best imo
And how he doesn't try to shun them for such opinions either.
He’s convincing himself, not us.
Im fine with waterboarding...Terrorist are lucky they even are allowed to get water boarded they should be executed on the spot.
Moron.
It’s moronic to euthanize people who brutally murder other people? K. Let em mosey on back to what they’re doing. Training to kill westerners. Fuckin brilliant. Stupid democrat.
@206- Sea Guilty by association should be killed.
@@flyinglotus5401 reminds me of Berlin 1941
Wow, yeah he’s a torturer. Complete lack of empathy or compassion for people other than his own countrymen
if you only knew what they'd do to you
you cant interview a military guy to know whether its torture, you just cant because he's going to support his own cause and the ways they use to fight for it
Smothering someone with a pillow isn’t attempted murder, it’s a pillow fight 😂
3.5/10 joke
@@fucashima4798 hey everyone another snowflake tim Kennedy fan
"enhanced snuggle technique"
"Its not torture because these people are pieces of shit" Its still torture, im just okay with it
Official Jesus well if you hate the people being waterboarded you shouldn't support it because it gives the defense that their confessions were coerced through torture, which can waste millions of tax dollars over multiple appeals
Official Jesus the people being tortured most of the time are innocent... and even IF the person IS guilty toture doesn't work in real life. In movies and shows it does but in real life it doesn't work. You could being totured for something you didn't do then say for hours you didn't do it then eventually you would give in and say you did. People will do ANYTHING to make toture stop even if they are guilty or not.
+Promotionit - there are actual studies done that prove torture is bullshit. you believe shit based off your emotions
link to those studies then. Don't just give your "whataboutism" and run away with your tail between your legs, back it up thats how the real world works dummy
Promotionit The american government arm and support these so called terrorists and then waterboard and torture them fuck me you couldnt write it
Being an actual prisoner - excellent point Joe.
The problem with thinking you're the hero is you don't know when you've become the villain. Shout out to the feds for programming him so well.
pff, listen to this expert on heroism.
A family member of mine was shot down over Japan and tortured in a POW camp which included waterboarding and lived the rest of his life in a mental asylum from the brain damage.
Probably a weak minded pussy that couldn't handle some water /s
Sorry for your family I just had to repeat what this Tim creep was saying it's bogus to think water boardings just some activity and not psychological and physical torture
“As a form of torture, waterboarding became illegal under the law of war with the adoption of the third Geneva Convention of 1929, which required that prisoners of war be treated humanely, and the third and fourth Geneva Conventions of 1949, which explicitly prohibited the torture and cruel treatment of prisoners of war and civilians, respectively.” Waterboarding isn’t torture tho cause Tim Kennedy KNOWS torture
Then he claims these people are not like us, they are just cowards, animals and we would never break...such bullshit.
Waterboarding is mental torture not physical. It's the idea and feeling of drowning without actually doing so. Tim is right its not torture. Once you realize you aren't going to drown it loses effectiveness. He is also right that it will never work on someone who is firm in their beliefs. He is also right that torture also doesn't work so by proxy ultimately waterboarding will fail. When you torture someone they will more likely just tell you what you want to hear rather than the truth making it unreliable information
@@kobochy8108 you say it is mental torture, then you say it is not torture? You know that keeping a person awake for prolonged time or giving them the worst trips of their life and so on is also torture without breaking fingers for example?
Also you can actually drown when being waterboarded. Just keep the towel on your face and the water coming.
Good thing they are not protected by the Geneva convention as they are not part of a military
@@ryanh3951 this is the best. So insane that the USA calls it a war on terror and then says all the rules do not apply to their prisoners.
Anyone who says waterboarding isn't torture is either insanely sadistic or sociopathic. What is happening presently to Julian Assange is ABSOLUTELY considered TORTURE to anyone who has the capacity to reason and empathize. So if Julian Assange is being tortured both Psychologically and Physically and he is not being waterboarded, how can you not consider waterboarding torture?
Tim Kennedy is a dangerous individual who should NEVER be allowed to decide how to treat Prisoners of War.
I'm so impressed by Joe's ability as an interviewer... and he doesn't let Tim off the hook... discussing John McCain's experiences was brilliant to highlight why torture is not ok, morally... if we do this, we are no better than they are... and that's not ok
This man looks like he goes around kicking sand castles and calling people snowflakes
Insulting someone doesn't make their argument invalid. It just makes you look ignorant and dull.
@@Eastern-Asia Yeah. Shut the fuck up!
More like goes around kicking the shit out of terrorists
Joe Traill hell yea brother tell em
Kids*
I don't know Tim Kennedy but he seems kinda crazy.
And seems like a total fucking douche bag.
Gregorio Grillo Morales Definitely a bit crazy! Just be glad hes on our side!
Sure am I would actually like to meet him in person. I never said he was crazy in a bad way. Sometimes we got to be careful of what we say cause people can over react of a truthful opinion more so on how kids are these days and why about the military, especially on something that isn't his fault like the Busch administration and the 911incident.
@@devinloveridge2164 and why should I fear him?
I know that, but I still don't have to fear him. I may like him, but if I'm what he swore to protect I should not need to fear him.
There are people equally dangerous than he is without being a seal.
He wasn’t waterboarded. Not in any way, shape or form. He lay on a bench while someone poured water over his face. Had he been restrained and immobilised and subjected to waterboarding without the ability to stop it until he felt he was drowning - that would be waterboarding. This man is a fool.
You cannot use how bad “they” are as a justification for your actions. It wouldn’t matter if it was Osama Bin Laden himself on the board, it’s still torture. Could it be justified in some cases? That’s a different debate. But it IS torture. If it causes unbearable suffering then it’s torture.
He wants to pretend it's enhanced interrogation. It's not its torture. Christopher Hitchens said it wasn't torture until he was water boarded.
"Believe me, it's torture"
- Christopher Hitchens, after trying it.
Literally everyone who was pro-waterboarding and tried it changed their minds. There’s absolutely no question that it is torture.
Well... I mean not "literally everyone", since Kennedy tried it and didn't change his mind. What's adorable is that he gives no credit to the fact that he's a highly trained special forces operator. Like he's not in the 1% of the (physically and mentally) toughest people in the world.
Also, we tried Japanese soldiers for war crimes, for waterboarding American soldiers in WWII. Worked on them, so I guess they were "weak cowards" too.
I miss hitch , he actually had the balls to put this argument to bed by being waterboarded himself ,that is journalistic integrity
I believe that water boarding is torture but mental torture, kinda like putting someone in complete isolation but not as bad because that person is able to keep their sanity, not physical and water boarding tricks the mind into believing you can’t breathe even thought you’re able to so in turn it makes you your own torturer
A Aizner Tim Kennedy wasn’t waterboarded. All he did was hold his breath while his friends poured water on his face and stopped every 15 seconds. He needs to be strapped up head angled down rag on face constant flow of water being poured on his face for 10mins