You REALLLLLY should invest in some Kester Flux. I got the paste type and put it into a syringe. Easy to squeeze out when I need it, it'll take your soldering to the next level! Also, for projects like this, I opt for water proof shrink tubing which has glue on the inside. It makes a good bond with the wire shield and a solid seal around the solder joints.
Your video has been invaluable to me in helping my build my own battery and custom ebike, and learning the process for it all. Thank you so much for taking the time to make this with such level of detail and explanation.
@@joshbuck2037I have since sold this battery pack but it performed really well for the time I had it. That's said, I would not suggest doing this because the cycle life is very low for Lipo cells - only around 800 cycles. They are just not meant for longevity
@@joshbuck2037 Hi buddy, just waiting to give it some more tests over the next few days as i've been too busy as of recent. But the pack voltge and BMS powers up no problem with correct readings in the app. The setup in the video is solid and gives a good good outline of how to wire balance wires, but if you need more detail on how to wire balance wires with odd / even number of cells, do let me know and I will try to share you some instruction manuals
Nice. I am thinking about doing something similar with prismatic cells. I was trying to think how I would hold the BMS and possibly the inverter. this is gave me great ideas!
I've played with these batteries. In my experience I ended up having a soft medium between each battery. When a batt fails is swells causing the others to squish. I used the florist oasis foam.
I would not suggest lipos for anything but a hobby vehicle. the main reason is the very short cycle life (400 cycles or so) but they are also more likely to become unbalanced (even with BMS) and risk of fire when charging is greater. Im using lipos here but its for more of a prototype build as opposed to something that I was riding often. If you need high power and compact form-factor, I would suggest NMC pouch cells. Cylindrical li-ion cells are still the best overall for long cycle life and energy density
@@GaiusGarage Thank you for your reply , Im used to lipos and their dangers I've used up to 8s in drones for years now , I can get 6s lipos from a friend through his work really really cheap , also I am only building a budget hobby bike 5000w to use on trails maybe once a fortnight once a week , however you have given me food for thought , I may buy a battery welder and try making a pack from the li-ion batteries 😀 thanks again for the advice and for a great channel 👍
I think you'll find that they are already paralleled inside the pack. There will be 2x10ah cells in parallel 8 cells in all in each pack. I have the 16ah and that's how they are set out. 2x8 as a 16ah
Amazing work man. I loved how everything is packed and organised. There is very little content on the Internet in general, let alone on UA-cam on how wire a BMS with Lipo packs. Just a question. Can you please explain a little more about what you mentioned on 5:05? How to use one connector for 2 groups of balance leads? I think I wouldn't get the same range with Lipos than with 21700 cells, right?
Thank you! re: 5:05 - the balance wires that come with the BMS are actually two separate sets of wires on two separate connectors. I think the first set is like 1-10 and the second set is the rest - so because the lipos have 4 balance wires each (not counting the negative wire thats not being used), one of those sets of balance wires will be the one that bridges the gap between the two sets of BMS wire harnesses - hope that makes sense. In terms of range, you will get the same if the capacity is the same. These lipo packs are only 20Ah and this battery is only 1p so not very much range. But if I wires two of these in parallel it would be 40Ah - so double range. 21700 tend to be 4-5Ah or so each but you can arrange as many in parallel as you need - ultimately its what you have room for
@@Full_Throttle_no_Brakes depends - you really shouldnt be taking your Li-ion cells down to 3.2V either. Just depends how hard you push them at the lower voltages. But in general, I do agree Li-po is not really a good choice for general EVs - its best for short range, high discharge application - like a drag racer or something like that
@14:56 you probably already learned the ANT will balance to 0.000v differential but the default setting have it stop balancing at 0.005v and automatically start at 0.020v, if the other prerequisites are met. I prefer the old app shown here. Much easier to screen record the important data. It doesn’t work with the new ANTs due to password format but it works as read only for videos. Luckily I got it before it was removed from the Apple App Store.
Wow!!! Hey buddy you did an awesome job love the 3D printed case turned out great and great job with the wiring. Everything looks really nice and compacted together. I was wondering how long it took you to build the whole thing and how much did it cost you to build that and where did you get those batteries from if you don’t mind telling me. I’m going to shear this video to a guy I know who’s building his battery pack and anyone who is interested in building their own battery. Great job with everything you did including the 3D case. I’m sure you probably think you could of done something different but I think you did a spectacular job on the whole thing the video is also great quality. Thanks so much for such a great video and description on everything you did I think you knocked it out of the park with this build buddy. I truly love this video so much.Thanks again buddy. Ride safe and take care and God Bless.
Thanks so much! I really appreciate the kind words. The cells I used are these: hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-high-capacity-battery-20000mah-6s-12c-drone-lipo-pack-xt90.html they are much more expensive now than when I built this pack. it cost me around $900 when I built it, and would be around $1500 today (with BMS & shipping). the models for the 3D printed parts are available to download as well - link in description I'm also about to post a video of the build for the ebike Im put this into there's another video of an electric motorcycle that I was using it with but as you'll see it's a bit low in capacity for a motorcycle
Awesome battery build. Great work. I recommend you should use some fiberglass Insulating sleeve for the cable (+) that you hooked onto the external post. Just to keep it from rubbing though and grounding out on the bms itself. Otherwise coolest build I have seen in a long time..👍👍
thank you! and that's for the tip - hadn't heard of fiberglass insulating sleeves before - will definitely be useful in an upcoming build for an electric motorcycle
I find that using a heat gun for those wires connectors with solder within is better than a torch since the torch gets too hot and you can't just let it go at it for long, while the heat gun can gradually bake the solder to melt without burning thru the silicon seal
lipos are definitely the least stable of the common chemistries but they are still very safe when used properly. specifically, the cells must be well balanced and not charged at an excessive rate. they do wear faster than other chemistries as well and that increases the chances of an incident as their internal resistance increases as they degrade. generally speaking, lipos are not a good choice for large battery packs that need to last a long time. they are best in situations where extremely high discharge is needed at the expense of longevity
I really like this battery pack, I wish I knew more about this stuff because I want to build my own bike but the battery system looks so confusing but not the way you showed so much info. I’m just curious though, what would you use a pack like this for? I know it’s an e-bike but is it for instant power off the start or? I love your channel, I subbed and I will for sure hire you to help with the info.
Thanks! Basically you need a pack like this if you want a high amount of power for acceleration. You have more options if youre ok with more modest acceleration
Man You are the best Superb Sir smart genius !!!!! I got few questions I have QS 273 Hub-motor like 12K.W in my Enduro Bike With your batter in my ebike probably can reach 20K.W easy ah, and maybe hopefully 85-95 mph ah I hope. Which controller do you suggest not too heavy and match-fit with this beautiful coolest display. CT-22 48V 72V 120V Universal Hall Digital LCD Programmable Speedometer Display for Electric Motorcycle High Power Bike MAYBE this will do it good ?? The FarDrive ND96530 115V Peak High Power Electric Motorcycle Controller 530A 6000W BLDC Programmable For QSMotor Because Subvoton 96200 is very unstable blowing up too fast unreliable at all and will be too weak for this block. Also is this whole block is what about 24LB ?? Also What is the normal driving range it can give me 40miles 60 or 80??
ND96530 is a good choice - I actually have this controller and used it with this battery but only for testing. 530A is too much for this battery - it's rated for 430A peak and even thats pushing it. but if you program a limit in the controller it would be ok. your top speed on a hub motor is mainly determined by the motor winding. you should check which version you have. also the tire size is a big factor since you don't have a transmission with a hub motor. I'd say 95mph is optimistic. also keep in mind this battery is only 20Ah - this is pretty low for a motorcycle or even an ebike. I build it for a ridiculous high power ebike that was so insane (dangerous) that I took it apart and use this battery mainly for testing. but the range during normal riding on 20Ah would probably be like 25-30mi if even that.
@@GaiusGarage Yeah You right 20Ah way too low will goes out fast bummer :( I was thinking maybe 60Ah or so . I guess Samsung 30 Q cells 72V 42Ah 20s14p Li-ion battery pack 220Amps will be the best choice ah ?? BUT how heavy it will be ???? and also much safer Ah ?? ua-cam.com/video/QMQYfk2RKtU/v-deo.html
The 72200 is not unstable, if you've had problems with these in the past then it was probably either a knock off, (which there are a lot of on alliexpress), or you were just unlucky to have a faulty one from the factory which is very rare in which case they would replace it. I've had the 72150 and the 72200 (Unlocked), I was running the 72200 at 300 amps battery and 550 phase current routinely and it didn't even get warm, it would have took way more punishment if my qs205 3T could have handled it, i've seen the 72200 take 400 amps DC. If you buy direct from QS motor or Sabvoton, then you will have a decent controller that's relatively cheap, just make sure to specify it be unlocked. But if you intend to run that much power into the 273, you must have ferrofluid and some proper heatsinks, they 273 is not very resilient when it comes to temperature. My friend has cooked a couple of them in the past. Even the QS205 is a more resilient motor with regards to taking heat punishment. If you don't have any of the above you will!! cook it at that power, period! Although that depends how you ride I guess, my mate is a lunatic!!
Thanks! reason for lipo is to attain high discharge from a small volume. Not possible with cylinderical cells, other than Headway LiFePo4 cells but they would still be bigger
I probably would have considered using pure copper uninsulated butt connectors to crimp the series connections just because mechanical strength is so important there. If any of those joints somehow give out and the heat shrink fails you're going to have one hell of a short. Those solder seal connectors should not be hit with a torch you need to use a proper heat gun or a hair dryer on high might be enough. The torch is just way too much to leave on the connector long enough for the heat to bleed through into the solder blob. Edit: well you knew what the problem was later in the video
Nice video! A few questions: 1. What motor were you using this pack on? 2. Would you know the maximum charging Amps that these cells can handle? You mentioned you charge at 10A. Is it possible to charge at 20A if on a road trip and need faster charging? 3. Did they perform up to the specs they list? Underwhelming or overwhelming power? Thanks so much!!
Thank you! Originally I was using this with a hob motor on an ebike - similar to a QS205. Now I will be using it with a QS138 90H motor on an electric motorcycle - I have video series as I build it on my channel. Ideally, you want to charge Lipo packs at 1C to keep them healthy and not exploding. 1C for this pack would be 20A, so yes, you can definitely charge at 20A. I charge at 10A because Im using a 1500W power supply and cannot support much above 10A on 110VAC line. Yeah, they pretty much perform as advertised - although I havent pushed them super hard yet. The downside to using Lipo for large pack and non-hobby vehicles is the short cycle life. These packs will be spent within a year or two of active riding. Worse still, they become more dangerous to charge as the cells degrade over time. This was kind of a fun project sort of thing but I wouldnt build this again, or for a serious user-case
How much do 4 of thes cost ?? Im tryin to build my first battery for my electric dirt bike , i built a lead acid one befor so i get the basics of it ,but that thing is so heavy i need a light weight one at a low cost with out havin to wait months for an aliexpress battery or cells Thank you
Hi there to make a 72V or close to it how many packs will I need 4 or 5 and witch Ant BMS should I get can’t you add a diagram wiring or video to learn how
when soldering like that (only around the joint) you make the wires to be too hot in some point and you will see smoke and fire, the soldering not going into the wire is worng
Yes, probably lead free solder. It doesnt work. I only use good solder and it flows right into the cables to make the connection, he is just plastering soldering around the cable. This will increase resistance.
These won't have a true 12C continuous discharge, but they will still be pretty damn good! Probably more like 5 or 6c continuous. But should still do close to the peaks that they say. I've had lots of turnigy / lipo batteries in the past. The only lipos I know of that do close to the ratings that they specify are Overlander lipo's. When I had my multistar turnigy batteries 16ah. They were rated to 10C but a proper bench test was done on them by a battery tester online and they would really only do 3C continuous. But it doesn't matter too much with ebikes as you rarely tend to use the max continuous rating of the battery anyway with the max rpm's of the motor being reached so quickly and the current tailing off rapidly as it does so. I have just finished making a cheapy 5ah 14s lipo pack with bms for my bike, to go 3 miles to work. Even cheap lipos blow the socks off of li-ion cells. Even if you go molicells, they still won't beat a half decent lipo of the same spec in terms of discharge rate!
Yep Lipo C ratings are all bullshit. The Wayne GIles ESR meter puts this to rest without any dispute (just like proper bench testing super high loads but the meter calculates the C rate for you) With the new P45B we finally have Lithium Ion cells that nearly match some of the high discharge Lipos with a slight savings in weight for the same/slightly more capacity.
Those Turingy LiPo batterys seems to be 199$ and there is 6 of them and that Ant bms is 120-150$. I gues that makes up around 1300-1600$ when you count the leads and terminals and other connectors. The price fluctuates a lot because it depends where you live and where you get your connectors and copper wires.
i would like to join 3 in series for my ebike. I'm only pulling 80 amps on my controller. Do i really need a BMS? Can I just charge each with the balance charger then join them is series with t90 connectors?
I have been thinking about how I want to make my build, as I have said before I love this battery pack, if you didn’t go wild draining this pack fast, if you rode it normal how many miles would it last at about 30mph?
depends on the vehicle & a bunch of other factors but it ultimately depends how much energy youre draining per unit time - Tesla Model 3 uses maybe 250Wh/mi for example, an electric motorcycle might be 100Wh/mi. typical ebike riding at 30mph might be 50Wh/mi. This pack is around 1.7kWh so at 50Wh/mi, you would get 34 miles out of this pack. You really just have to know the energy consumption
@@GaiusGarage ok, so with all the replies you have given I guess this high draining pack is really not needed. The reason why I liked this one so much is 1) Lipo battery. So much safer, last longer. 2) No other tools needed that I do not have yet. So I guess I would like to get something along those lines as these packs but the high drain (very fast takeoff) is not really needed. Since I want to build the bike like yours I guess I could build a higher voltage system like your 96v pack. So what services do you offer that we could talk about what’s needed or available? Thanks
Congrats on the ridiculous lipo pack build is there a ridiculous bike its going in as Im looking to challenge other ridiculous builds for King Rediculi, lol
yes, actually! ridiculous ebike build is here: ua-cam.com/video/tSj76sVALwg/v-deo.html I also used this in an electric motorcycle but that was only ridiculous because how much is sucked
Hi nice job building this battery pack. I have been watching your videos to learn about wiring and battery building. How do you charge this battery? Does your bms balance the batteries when charging?
thanks! yeah the BMS has a balance function but most common BMSs don't use active balancing. So it's not like there's some circuit monitoring all the cell voltages and constantly re-apportioning charge to keep them synced. the way it works is once the cells reach some threshold towards the top of their charge cycle, the BMS will open circuits to bleed charge to the cells that are lower. but often the balance current is low and in my experience if the pack is too out of balance, the BMS can't bring it back. Generally speaking, BMS balance functions are pretty close to useless. If you have quality cells and don't ever stress them, they won't go out of balance by very much so you don't really need balance changing. But if your cells are way out of balance, the BMS can't bring them back to balance. So not alot of use-case. For charging, you just need to find any DC voltage source at the full-charge voltage. So for 24s, it's 100.8V. Any 100.8V DC source will charge this pack. I use a power supply with a boost converter
Those solder connectors are only good for up to like 100amps and then they melt. I would highly suggest replacing them with just normal solder and heat shrink. Kind of defeats the purpose of having high discharge lipo cells if it's limited by a solder joint.
this is incorrect. Tin/lead solder melts at appropriately 360F and not at any particular amperage rating. you can run 100A though a large gauge wire and see very little increase in heat. these are 10 gauge wires so yes, they will heat up at 100A, probably more than what would be ideal, but not to 360F. If your wires are heating to the point that your solder melts, you've much bigger problems
I'm currently using a power supply with a boost converter although I do have a purpose built EV charger as well. I am using this on the KLS conversion but it was originally built for a 100V ebike but it was too crazy and dangerous to ride so I tore it back down. going to post those videos eventually as well
Great idea was going to try myself.. then when cell goes bad. Cheaper to fix. And charge one at a time.. with hobby charger. Tells you shape of every individual cell.. 👊👊💪💪no need for bms then..get a 100c lol
If my math is right that’s about $1200 for a 24lb 100v 20ah battery pack, minus enclosure and wiring (and labor, your time isn’t free). Does it wildly outperform 21700 cells do you think?
these lipo packs were a lot cheaper when I built this so the cost was around $800. worth it at that price, I suppose, but you can probably get similar performance from 21700 cells and they would last longer
What’s the speed controller that you use for your 100v? I’ve tried finding one but there’s not many I’m planning to get 2 52v 20ah in series can’t find speed controlle rhto
got the one in this video on Amazon. Ive since ordered a hydraulic crimper that I would recommend www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HJXG3KM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title
the wires on the packs are 10gauge so that's the bottleneck no matter what wires I use elsewhere. I agree it's not sufficient but then again it's how the pack are designed. no issues so far
Ive since sold this pack along with a bike.. Im sure it's still going strong but youre right that Lipos are not ideal for longevity especially with high stress. I would not build a pack like this again and would instead opt for NMC pouch cells
Why is nobody talking about the cross section of the wires on those batteries? 6mm2 (10AWG) is nowhere near enough to carry 240A continuously. The wires will heat up over time. Something doesn’t add up in the specs of those batteries. Other than that good video and great build.
yeah the wires are definitely a limiting factor. These cells (and Lipo cells in general) are designed to provide short burst of high power. 10AWG wires are ok for this because the high current is only applied for a short time and the length of the wires is very short as well. Because I have these in series, the current capability of the complete pack is the same as one of the cells but the length of 10AWG wire is six times longer, which does increase heat and resistance. This would definitely not be a good solution for sustained high-power applications, but it can probably do 100A - 150A continuous and peak bursts as described, as long as youre not constantly punching it. check out my other videos where I use this pack for an ebike and an electric motorcycle. It performs great for the ebike, but electric motorcycle is results in quite a bit of voltage sag for the reasons described above
You are correct. The continuous c rate is bottlenecked by the wire gauge. Typically the people that make these packs are concerned about their boost performance. Almost all the world record EV racers just use wire gauge connected packs. They are bottlenecked by the motor technology and the car chassis. Not so much the batteries.
yes, from the the perspective of the lipos, there is no difference between being connected in series or not. lipo safety is all a matter of stressing the cells when charging and discharging. overcharging to too high a voltage or at too high a current is especially dangerous. In this case, Im charging a well below 1C and discharging at about 10C, which is very modest. In short, these cell are not stressed at all, so very safe to use. The downside is that Lipo cells have a relatively short cycle life, so even with modest use, this pack will not last more than 800 cycles before it loses a good amount of capacity. At that point, it may become a bit less safe to use due to higher internal resistance. In general, this was a fun build but I wouldn't recommend building packs like this for anything other than short-term hobby applications
both! it can run continously (until charge is depleted) at 240A and deliver short bursts (of a few seconds) at 480A. The burst thing is not a precise value and depends on the time interval the current is applied. For instance, you can get 1000A+ easily for fractions of a second (like for use in spot welding), or 800A for let's say 1s, or 350A for 10s. Basically, you can ask any amount of current of the battery pack and it will deliver it for whatever time it's capable of delivering it - if you force that current for too long, the voltage drop will become extreme, the internal resistance will increase, and the pack will be stressed to the point of damage. The peak values quoted on the pack are more snapshots under particular conditions of the manufacturer's choosing to give some sense of peak performance but don't give the full picture of performance at the limits in all situations
@@GaiusGarage thx so much for your detailed reply!! Lets say you had an additional identical pack and wired in parallel. Would that let me go up to 480A continuous and 960A burst roughly speaking?
I doubt these packs could truly run 240a continuously until dead without nuking. I plan on running some in my gokart will run some in parallel to split the load.
yeah that is a bit of a bottleneck but it's unavoidable since this is the gauge wire provided on the Lipo packs - it would be very difficult to swap them out on the packs safely. but all the packs are wired in series, not parallel so the max current of the entire battery does not exceed what any of the individual packs are designed for (the voltage is irrelevant). also it's not quite correct to say 10AWG is rated for 30A - there is no such thing as a "rating" for a given wire gauge (manufacturers give this figure but it's an oversimplification). Additionally alot of the rating are for residential AC system assuming a long length of wire and have to follow high safety standards for residential electrical systems. It's a matter of wire length and the resulting voltage drop across the wire at a given current - so for DC systems you can absolutely pass 500A or even 1000A through 10AWG wire of a *short length* but the voltage drop would increase accordingly. The key factor here is the length of time the current is applied. 500A peak (just a few seconds) is totally ok. 150A-200A continuous is also ok for this gauge. but in both cases the voltage drop would result in more energy lost to heat and therefore less efficiency. there is a voltage drop per length of wire per gauge calculator online that you can use to design a given system
@@GaiusGarage The differenc in the 10AWG you're using and the 10AWG you see rated for residential is the insulator. Silicone is rated much much higher. There is a rating for wire and related ot insulation as well.
@@ryanwebster2167 I would advise against it. lipos are made for hobby project that require high discharge but not necessarily long cycle life which could be a low as 400 cycles. I made this pack just to have something compact and easy to build but I would never use lipos for a bike that I intend to ride long-term
I saw a guy who used 2 of these packs but there were 6 cells instead of 4 and used a double xt90 connector (Took both xt90 ends [of the 2 batteries] and pluged them into a cable that came to one xt90 end [this end went to the controller]) with no BMS. Since an xt90 cable is being used, but yet the discharge rate is well over 90 amps, how is this possible? Do you really need a BMS as the guy I saw did not use one and his bike worked fine with a qs203 and sabvaton72150? Please clarify ua-cam.com/video/b3_CGWRHU0A/v-deo.html
he's using the xt90 connector to connect the cells in series - the controller is a SV75150 so 150A max. xt90 is a bit small for 150A but it'll hold up for a while -- will probably end up deforming due to heat over time though
I don't actually remember. material was PETG. I think I used a 0.6mm nozzle, but it's really up to you. nozzle and bed temp at standard values for PETG
@@GaiusGarage alr thanks, also one more question my friend has a 88.4.v max controller i think. will he still be able to use this even though it comes out to 100v he can right? he thinks im wrong
@@realkidcarter if his controller is spec'd to 88V max, connecting to this pack fully charged at 100V would likely damage it. You can overvolt a motor, but controllers have circuit components that will be damaged by excess voltage
@@MrDeceptacon88 , yes, but if the hug pack was printed in the shape of your battery compartment, maybe it could fit enough 20ah lipos to make a 40ah pack of 84v, 96v or perhaps 108v. If his pack is rated at 240a continuous you should be able to do 400a continuous with both packs, maybe even 480 continuous. With those amps you won’t even need 108v, so 2x 96v packs would probably do it and still stay above back EMF.
@@MrDeceptacon88 , i watched part of it. His basic message is good “Use a properly insulated BMS” . He’s backtracked a little on the “BMS cant balance a pack” but he still doesn’t understand the difference between the ANT and a $10 BMS as far as balancing capability. Anyone who has an ANT and knows how to use it knows it can balance the pack fairly quickly unless the cells have a problem. Its not super fast like an active balance but if the battery is good then each time its fully charged it will be in balance with +/- 0.002v and that can be corrected very fast.
£190 for 1 battery and your using 6 of them! £1140 for the batteries for this plus everything else. What do you think the battery is worth because it must cost £1400 at least to build
I don’t understand how your batteries are 6s and you only have 5 wires on the charger cord I don’t understand how you’re title, and the packs say 6s yet your diagram only shows a 4s setup I’m so confused
@@GaiusGarage so how does that make sense other then your comment just now stating that you used 4s everyone watching is thinking you’re using 6s unless they’ve built batteries before
@@darriusrivera1235the thumbnail image shows 4s packs. 14.4V if you look closely. but you are right, the link in the description is to 6s packs - this is a mistake I did not realize until now 😂
you can message me on Instagram @gaiusgarage but I'm in the US and shipping battery packs international is just too expensive - probably wouldn't be worth it for you
yes, I can do it - would just need the Lipo cells or cost of them as a deposit up front to get started. Unfortunately the cells have gone up in price - they are $220 each currently and you would need 6 of them so that's about $1300. Cost of remaining materials+labor+shipping will bring you up $2k for the total
id wager the price of those lipos that this pack is out of commission or had to be repaired or is at a fraction of its original performance at the time of writing this 2 years after the video was filmed, turnigy is very much an entry level brand and the lipo structure itself is not made for longevity at those discharge rates.
@@Qapital_J I did study electrical engineering but that's mostly useful with integrated circuit design - this kind of stuff barely touches any advanced EE concepts so I mostly learned by doing projects like this
@@GaiusGaragehat’s pretty cool. I’m trying to get into a hobby. I’ve tinkered with small electronics before nothing too crazy. I like the 3D printed housing you made for the batteries. I use 20AH LiFePO4 at work that’s roughly the size of two of your batteries and I’m thinking of enclosing it and leaving the Anderson plug available for it to work how a DSLR battery works were it just slides in and out cause the batteries are getting mistreated to where you can see the individual cells. Any tips would be nice!
not necessarily - any charger capable of 100V will work. its only 20Ah so current should not be more than 20A. Lipo is a more volatile chemistry and most fires happen during charging so I charge at 10A (0.5C) max. So all you need is a 1000W power supply and a boost converter to take it up to 100V
@@GaiusGarage Ah that does make sense. I've got an ebike, which uses li-ion batteries, but before I got into ebikes I was into FPV drones, so I know all about the dangers of lipo batteries...even had one explode on me after a particularly bad crash. I'm a new subscriber, but if the rest of your videos are on par with this one, you'll have an avid watcher in me. Great video, be safe out there!
@@kwadkrazy6078 I fly FPV too 🤘 - been lucky so far with my lipo packs despite some pretty bad crashes. Just one other video for now - I have a bunch of footage of various projects, definitely planning to be more active so thanks for the sub!!
I know theh P45B was pretty much impossible to get 9 months ago but this "12C-24C" pack is probably equivalent to a P42A and those are $5 each. So I"m just really confused why. you would choose the sketchiest of all chemistries/form factors? Another option would have been the SPIM08HP cells from Battery Hookup. Crazy powerful and pretty dense energy and power wise. They are modular so besides making up your own aluminum bus blocks its super duper easy. Def hope you are doing some serious temp monitoring. Wait you dont ride this bike? Are you letting other people ride it? You're gonna get sued for everything you have when this battery goes up in flames while someone is on it. This is the one chemistry I would never ever let someone use if I built a battery with it. I'm really confused why you are building such a high discharge pack with such small cables. The series connections will have all the current flowing through them and they are 10AWG. Anything past 100A and those are going to get REALLY hot. 200A and they will melt no question about it.
P42A would’ve been an option but I was too lazy to do a bunch of spot welding on top of copper. these were simple to assemble. I actually have a bunch of SPIM08HP cells - energy density is not great - 24s 20Ah pack would be much bigger than this lipo pack and not fit the application. Lipo is much more safe than the reputation it has - most fires result from overcharging a damaged cell, and because Lipos are typically in hobby applications (drones, rc cars) damaged cells are common
You REALLLLLY should invest in some Kester Flux. I got the paste type and put it into a syringe. Easy to squeeze out when I need it, it'll take your soldering to the next level! Also, for projects like this, I opt for water proof shrink tubing which has glue on the inside. It makes a good bond with the wire shield and a solid seal around the solder joints.
Your video has been invaluable to me in helping my build my own battery and custom ebike, and learning the process for it all. Thank you so much for taking the time to make this with such level of detail and explanation.
great to hear it was helpful! my pleasure
Any updates on your battery? I’m wanting todo the same 😂
@@joshbuck2037I have since sold this battery pack but it performed really well for the time I had it. That's said, I would not suggest doing this because the cycle life is very low for Lipo cells - only around 800 cycles. They are just not meant for longevity
@@joshbuck2037 Hi buddy, just waiting to give it some more tests over the next few days as i've been too busy as of recent. But the pack voltge and BMS powers up no problem with correct readings in the app. The setup in the video is solid and gives a good good outline of how to wire balance wires, but if you need more detail on how to wire balance wires with odd / even number of cells, do let me know and I will try to share you some instruction manuals
Lol 100.8 volts fully charged, insane build love it
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR EXPLANING THE BMB WIRING DIAGRAM! i was confused on it!
Nice. I am thinking about doing something similar with prismatic cells. I was trying to think how I would hold the BMS and possibly the inverter. this is gave me great ideas!
CR6 for the win, great little printer!
I've played with these batteries. In my experience I ended up having a soft medium between each battery.
When a batt fails is swells causing the others to squish. I used the florist oasis foam.
Just about to start my bike build , going to use lipos , excellent video !
I would not suggest lipos for anything but a hobby vehicle. the main reason is the very short cycle life (400 cycles or so) but they are also more likely to become unbalanced (even with BMS) and risk of fire when charging is greater. Im using lipos here but its for more of a prototype build as opposed to something that I was riding often. If you need high power and compact form-factor, I would suggest NMC pouch cells. Cylindrical li-ion cells are still the best overall for long cycle life and energy density
@@GaiusGarage
Thank you for your reply ,
Im used to lipos and their dangers I've used up to 8s in drones for years now , I can get 6s lipos from a friend through his work really really cheap , also I am only building a budget hobby bike 5000w to use on trails maybe once a fortnight once a week , however you have given me food for thought , I may buy a battery welder and try making a pack from the
li-ion batteries 😀 thanks again for the advice and for a great channel 👍
I think you'll find that they are already paralleled inside the pack. There will be 2x10ah cells in parallel 8 cells in all in each pack. I have the 16ah and that's how they are set out. 2x8 as a 16ah
Amazing work man. I loved how everything is packed and organised. There is very little content on the Internet in general, let alone on UA-cam on how wire a BMS with Lipo packs.
Just a question. Can you please explain a little more about what you mentioned on 5:05? How to use one connector for 2 groups of balance leads?
I think I wouldn't get the same range with Lipos than with 21700 cells, right?
Thank you! re: 5:05 - the balance wires that come with the BMS are actually two separate sets of wires on two separate connectors. I think the first set is like 1-10 and the second set is the rest - so because the lipos have 4 balance wires each (not counting the negative wire thats not being used), one of those sets of balance wires will be the one that bridges the gap between the two sets of BMS wire harnesses - hope that makes sense.
In terms of range, you will get the same if the capacity is the same. These lipo packs are only 20Ah and this battery is only 1p so not very much range. But if I wires two of these in parallel it would be 40Ah - so double range. 21700 tend to be 4-5Ah or so each but you can arrange as many in parallel as you need - ultimately its what you have room for
@@GaiusGarageThanks for your response. but because the minimum voltage of Lipos is 3.2v, don't you lose performance faster?
@@Full_Throttle_no_Brakes depends - you really shouldnt be taking your Li-ion cells down to 3.2V either. Just depends how hard you push them at the lower voltages. But in general, I do agree Li-po is not really a good choice for general EVs - its best for short range, high discharge application - like a drag racer or something like that
@14:56 you probably already learned the ANT will balance to 0.000v differential but the default setting have it stop balancing at 0.005v and automatically start at 0.020v, if the other prerequisites are met.
I prefer the old app shown here. Much easier to screen record the important data. It doesn’t work with the new ANTs due to password format but it works as read only for videos. Luckily I got it before it was removed from the Apple App Store.
Wow!!! Hey buddy you did an awesome job love the 3D printed case turned out great and great job with the wiring. Everything looks really nice and compacted together. I was wondering how long it took you to build the whole thing and how much did it cost you to build that and where did you get those batteries from if you don’t mind telling me. I’m going to shear this video to a guy I know who’s building his battery pack and anyone who is interested in building their own battery. Great job with everything you did including the 3D case. I’m sure you probably think you could of done something different but I think you did a spectacular job on the whole thing the video is also great quality. Thanks so much for such a great video and description on everything you did I think you knocked it out of the park with this build buddy. I truly love this video so much.Thanks again buddy. Ride safe and take care and God Bless.
Thanks so much! I really appreciate the kind words.
The cells I used are these: hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-high-capacity-battery-20000mah-6s-12c-drone-lipo-pack-xt90.html
they are much more expensive now than when I built this pack. it cost me around $900 when I built it, and would be around $1500 today (with BMS & shipping).
the models for the 3D printed parts are available to download as well - link in description
I'm also about to post a video of the build for the ebike Im put this into
there's another video of an electric motorcycle that I was using it with but as you'll see it's a bit low in capacity for a motorcycle
Awesome battery build. Great work. I recommend you should use some fiberglass Insulating sleeve for the cable (+) that you hooked onto the external post. Just to keep it from rubbing though and grounding out on the bms itself. Otherwise coolest build I have seen in a long time..👍👍
thank you! and that's for the tip - hadn't heard of fiberglass insulating sleeves before - will definitely be useful in an upcoming build for an electric motorcycle
I find that using a heat gun for those wires connectors with solder within is better than a torch since the torch gets too hot and you can't just let it go at it for long, while the heat gun can gradually bake the solder to melt without burning thru the silicon seal
yeah totally - torch is not a good choice. I just didn't have a heat gun at the time
Very well explained
I’m thinking of doing the same thing but the only thing worrying me is the fire. It would be one hell of a fire.
lipos are definitely the least stable of the common chemistries but they are still very safe when used properly. specifically, the cells must be well balanced and not charged at an excessive rate. they do wear faster than other chemistries as well and that increases the chances of an incident as their internal resistance increases as they degrade. generally speaking, lipos are not a good choice for large battery packs that need to last a long time. they are best in situations where extremely high discharge is needed at the expense of longevity
Really Well Done video and Build - Thanks for showing
Much appreciated!
WELL DONE ,great educational program👍💯
Thank you, sir!
+ to - cell solder joints looked so dry, I would be keeping an eye on them
Best battery build
I really like this battery pack, I wish I knew more about this stuff because I want to build my own bike but the battery system looks so confusing but not the way you showed so much info. I’m just curious though, what would you use a pack like this for? I know it’s an e-bike but is it for instant power off the start or? I love your channel, I subbed and I will for sure hire you to help with the info.
Thanks! Basically you need a pack like this if you want a high amount of power for acceleration. You have more options if youre ok with more modest acceleration
Very impressive
Interesting concept for 🔋pack ☝️🤟👽🚲
Been running well so far. I currently have it in an electric motorcycle -- dont get much range but plenty of power to play around
Man You are the best Superb Sir smart genius !!!!!
I got few questions I have QS 273 Hub-motor like 12K.W in my Enduro Bike
With your batter in my ebike probably can reach 20K.W easy ah, and maybe hopefully 85-95 mph ah I hope.
Which controller do you suggest not too heavy and match-fit with this beautiful coolest display.
CT-22 48V 72V 120V Universal Hall Digital LCD Programmable Speedometer Display for Electric Motorcycle High Power Bike
MAYBE this will do it good ?? The FarDrive ND96530 115V Peak High Power Electric Motorcycle Controller 530A 6000W BLDC Programmable For QSMotor
Because Subvoton 96200 is very unstable blowing up too fast unreliable at all and will be too weak for this block.
Also is this whole block is what about 24LB ??
Also What is the normal driving range it can give me 40miles 60 or 80??
ND96530 is a good choice - I actually have this controller and used it with this battery but only for testing. 530A is too much for this battery - it's rated for 430A peak and even thats pushing it. but if you program a limit in the controller it would be ok. your top speed on a hub motor is mainly determined by the motor winding. you should check which version you have. also the tire size is a big factor since you don't have a transmission with a hub motor. I'd say 95mph is optimistic. also keep in mind this battery is only 20Ah - this is pretty low for a motorcycle or even an ebike. I build it for a ridiculous high power ebike that was so insane (dangerous) that I took it apart and use this battery mainly for testing. but the range during normal riding on 20Ah would probably be like 25-30mi if even that.
@@GaiusGarage Yeah You right 20Ah way too low will goes out fast bummer :( I was thinking maybe 60Ah or so . I guess Samsung 30 Q cells
72V 42Ah 20s14p Li-ion battery pack 220Amps will be the best choice ah ?? BUT how heavy it will be ???? and also much safer Ah ?? ua-cam.com/video/QMQYfk2RKtU/v-deo.html
The 72200 is not unstable, if you've had problems with these in the past then it was probably either a knock off, (which there are a lot of on alliexpress), or you were just unlucky to have a faulty one from the factory which is very rare in which case they would replace it. I've had the 72150 and the 72200 (Unlocked), I was running the 72200 at 300 amps battery and 550 phase current routinely and it didn't even get warm, it would have took way more punishment if my qs205 3T could have handled it, i've seen the 72200 take 400 amps DC. If you buy direct from QS motor or Sabvoton, then you will have a decent controller that's relatively cheap, just make sure to specify it be unlocked. But if you intend to run that much power into the 273, you must have ferrofluid and some proper heatsinks, they 273 is not very resilient when it comes to temperature. My friend has cooked a couple of them in the past. Even the QS205 is a more resilient motor with regards to taking heat punishment. If you don't have any of the above you will!! cook it at that power, period! Although that depends how you ride I guess, my mate is a lunatic!!
I use a tiny TS100 iron for my battery builds and can easily remove big BMS power cables - just gotta have some flux and whack it up to 400c - easy!
Nice build👍
Why the packs and not cells?
Cheers
Thanks! reason for lipo is to attain high discharge from a small volume. Not possible with cylinderical cells, other than Headway LiFePo4 cells but they would still be bigger
Great video! Where did you get those terminals for the battery? I can’t seem to find where to buy them anywhere.
just added the link in the description
@@GaiusGarage thanks!
Hi can u pls share the STL for the Battery Case and BMS mount. Thx Greatings
Yes, can I get the STL file also. Thank you for the excellent video
I probably would have considered using pure copper uninsulated butt connectors to crimp the series connections just because mechanical strength is so important there. If any of those joints somehow give out and the heat shrink fails you're going to have one hell of a short.
Those solder seal connectors should not be hit with a torch you need to use a proper heat gun or a hair dryer on high might be enough. The torch is just way too much to leave on the connector long enough for the heat to bleed through into the solder blob. Edit: well you knew what the problem was later in the video
great video, i want to do this. After two years how is it holding up?
Nice video!
A few questions:
1. What motor were you using this pack on?
2. Would you know the maximum charging Amps that these cells can handle? You mentioned you charge at 10A. Is it possible to charge at 20A if on a road trip and need faster charging?
3. Did they perform up to the specs they list? Underwhelming or overwhelming power?
Thanks so much!!
Thank you! Originally I was using this with a hob motor on an ebike - similar to a QS205. Now I will be using it with a QS138 90H motor on an electric motorcycle - I have video series as I build it on my channel.
Ideally, you want to charge Lipo packs at 1C to keep them healthy and not exploding. 1C for this pack would be 20A, so yes, you can definitely charge at 20A. I charge at 10A because Im using a 1500W power supply and cannot support much above 10A on 110VAC line.
Yeah, they pretty much perform as advertised - although I havent pushed them super hard yet. The downside to using Lipo for large pack and non-hobby vehicles is the short cycle life. These packs will be spent within a year or two of active riding. Worse still, they become more dangerous to charge as the cells degrade over time.
This was kind of a fun project sort of thing but I wouldnt build this again, or for a serious user-case
Thx for the reply!!!
Would you happen to know the Ant app version on your phone?
@@MrDeceptacon88 looks like v1.2.7
@@GaiusGarage thanks a lot!
@@GaiusGarage are you using android?
How much do 4 of thes cost ?? Im tryin to build my first battery for my electric dirt bike , i built a lead acid one befor so i get the basics of it ,but that thing is so heavy i need a light weight one at a low cost with out havin to wait months for an aliexpress battery or cells
Thank you
Hi there to make a 72V or close to it how many packs will I need 4 or 5 and witch Ant BMS should I get can’t you add a diagram wiring or video to learn how
when soldering like that (only around the joint) you make the wires to be too hot in some point and you will see smoke and fire, the soldering not going into the wire is worng
Yes, probably lead free solder. It doesnt work. I only use good solder and it flows right into the cables to make the connection, he is just plastering soldering around the cable. This will increase resistance.
Would it work with 5 of those battery modules too not 6?
I didn't see the charge cable. Might have missed it...
you just charge through the discharge terminals
These won't have a true 12C continuous discharge, but they will still be pretty damn good! Probably more like 5 or 6c continuous. But should still do close to the peaks that they say. I've had lots of turnigy / lipo batteries in the past. The only lipos I know of that do close to the ratings that they specify are Overlander lipo's. When I had my multistar turnigy batteries 16ah. They were rated to 10C but a proper bench test was done on them by a battery tester online and they would really only do 3C continuous. But it doesn't matter too much with ebikes as you rarely tend to use the max continuous rating of the battery anyway with the max rpm's of the motor being reached so quickly and the current tailing off rapidly as it does so. I have just finished making a cheapy 5ah 14s lipo pack with bms for my bike, to go 3 miles to work. Even cheap lipos blow the socks off of li-ion cells. Even if you go molicells, they still won't beat a half decent lipo of the same spec in terms of discharge rate!
Yep Lipo C ratings are all bullshit. The Wayne GIles ESR meter puts this to rest without any dispute (just like proper bench testing super high loads but the meter calculates the C rate for you)
With the new P45B we finally have Lithium Ion cells that nearly match some of the high discharge Lipos with a slight savings in weight for the same/slightly more capacity.
@@ericklein5097 Yeah molicells are great. I keep hearing good things about them from endless sphere.
So whats the max diacharge amps?
One question. Like how much cost to build that?
I'm guessing 1000 usd
Those Turingy LiPo batterys seems to be 199$ and there is 6 of them and that Ant bms is 120-150$. I gues that makes up around 1300-1600$ when you count the leads and terminals and other connectors. The price fluctuates a lot because it depends where you live and where you get your connectors and copper wires.
@@pawetsufi seems like he lost some voltage along the way 🤔🤓
~$800 for the lipo packs when I purchased them and BMS was around $80. Cost of filament for final pack and prototypes was prob another $50
i would like to join 3 in series for my ebike. I'm only pulling 80 amps on my controller. Do i really need a BMS? Can I just charge each with the balance charger then join them is series with t90 connectors?
yeah I guess you can do that but you'd have to balance charge each one individually or use 3 balance chargers at once
@@GaiusGarage ok thanks,
I have been thinking about how I want to make my build, as I have said before I love this battery pack, if you didn’t go wild draining this pack fast, if you rode it normal how many miles would it last at about 30mph?
depends on the vehicle & a bunch of other factors but it ultimately depends how much energy youre draining per unit time - Tesla Model 3 uses maybe 250Wh/mi for example, an electric motorcycle might be 100Wh/mi. typical ebike riding at 30mph might be 50Wh/mi. This pack is around 1.7kWh so at 50Wh/mi, you would get 34 miles out of this pack. You really just have to know the energy consumption
@@GaiusGarage ok, so with all the replies you have given I guess this high draining pack is really not needed. The reason why I liked this one so much is 1) Lipo battery. So much safer, last longer. 2) No other tools needed that I do not have yet. So I guess I would like to get something along those lines as these packs but the high drain (very fast takeoff) is not really needed. Since I want to build the bike like yours I guess I could build a higher voltage system like your 96v pack. So what services do you offer that we could talk about what’s needed or available? Thanks
Congrats on the ridiculous lipo pack build is there a ridiculous bike its going in as Im looking to challenge other ridiculous builds for King Rediculi, lol
yes, actually! ridiculous ebike build is here: ua-cam.com/video/tSj76sVALwg/v-deo.html
I also used this in an electric motorcycle but that was only ridiculous because how much is sucked
You definitely need better tin. Is that lead free tin?! Didn't flow well at all.
@@Yes-sw8gh it just looks that way in the video - actually seeped really well into the wires. not lead free and delicious 😋
Hi nice job building this battery pack. I have been watching your videos to learn about wiring and battery building. How do you charge this battery? Does your bms balance the batteries when charging?
thanks! yeah the BMS has a balance function but most common BMSs don't use active balancing. So it's not like there's some circuit monitoring all the cell voltages and constantly re-apportioning charge to keep them synced. the way it works is once the cells reach some threshold towards the top of their charge cycle, the BMS will open circuits to bleed charge to the cells that are lower. but often the balance current is low and in my experience if the pack is too out of balance, the BMS can't bring it back. Generally speaking, BMS balance functions are pretty close to useless. If you have quality cells and don't ever stress them, they won't go out of balance by very much so you don't really need balance changing. But if your cells are way out of balance, the BMS can't bring them back to balance. So not alot of use-case.
For charging, you just need to find any DC voltage source at the full-charge voltage. So for 24s, it's 100.8V. Any 100.8V DC source will charge this pack. I use a power supply with a boost converter
Don't the lipo packs already have a bms internally
no, they do not
Those solder connectors are only good for up to like 100amps and then they melt. I would highly suggest replacing them with just normal solder and heat shrink. Kind of defeats the purpose of having high discharge lipo cells if it's limited by a solder joint.
this is incorrect. Tin/lead solder melts at appropriately 360F and not at any particular amperage rating. you can run 100A though a large gauge wire and see very little increase in heat. these are 10 gauge wires so yes, they will heat up at 100A, probably more than what would be ideal, but not to 360F. If your wires are heating to the point that your solder melts, you've much bigger problems
This is awesome! What charger do you use to charge this?
Thanks! I'm just using a 50V 1500W power supply with a boost converter to take it up to 100.8V
What are you using to charge this battery with? Is this planned for the Kawa Conversion?
I'm currently using a power supply with a boost converter although I do have a purpose built EV charger as well. I am using this on the KLS conversion but it was originally built for a 100V ebike but it was too crazy and dangerous to ride so I tore it back down. going to post those videos eventually as well
Great idea was going to try myself.. then when cell goes bad. Cheaper to fix. And charge one at a time.. with hobby charger. Tells you shape of every individual cell.. 👊👊💪💪no need for bms then..get a 100c lol
If my math is right that’s about $1200 for a 24lb 100v 20ah battery pack, minus enclosure and wiring (and labor, your time isn’t free). Does it wildly outperform 21700 cells do you think?
these lipo packs were a lot cheaper when I built this so the cost was around $800. worth it at that price, I suppose, but you can probably get similar performance from 21700 cells and they would last longer
@@GaiusGarage Yeah, in the states it looks like they’re close to $200 ea right now. At any rate, nice build man. You do great work.
@@oddsman01Thank you, sir!
What’s the speed controller that you use for your 100v? I’ve tried finding one but there’s not many I’m planning to get 2 52v 20ah in series can’t find speed controlle rhto
YuYang King 150A version - its the only one I was able to find thats relatively inexpensive
Where did you get your heavy duty crimper?
got the one in this video on Amazon. Ive since ordered a hydraulic crimper that I would recommend www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HJXG3KM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title
You really only went 10gauge on those BMS wires??
the wires on the packs are 10gauge so that's the bottleneck no matter what wires I use elsewhere. I agree it's not sufficient but then again it's how the pack are designed. no issues so far
@@GaiusGarage i didn't know 10gauge can handle 100v
Hello good afternoon.
How many of these batteries I need for a 96v 100A battery?
Thank you for your time?
you will need at least 7 in series. if you mean 100Ah, you will need 5 in parallel. so 35 total
@@GaiusGarage yes I mean 100ah.
Thank you very much for answering.
is this pack still going? my hk 20c lipos only lasted me a year.
Ive since sold this pack along with a bike.. Im sure it's still going strong but youre right that Lipos are not ideal for longevity especially with high stress. I would not build a pack like this again and would instead opt for NMC pouch cells
Why is nobody talking about the cross section of the wires on those batteries? 6mm2 (10AWG) is nowhere near enough to carry 240A continuously. The wires will heat up over time. Something doesn’t add up in the specs of those batteries.
Other than that good video and great build.
yeah the wires are definitely a limiting factor. These cells (and Lipo cells in general) are designed to provide short burst of high power. 10AWG wires are ok for this because the high current is only applied for a short time and the length of the wires is very short as well. Because I have these in series, the current capability of the complete pack is the same as one of the cells but the length of 10AWG wire is six times longer, which does increase heat and resistance. This would definitely not be a good solution for sustained high-power applications, but it can probably do 100A - 150A continuous and peak bursts as described, as long as youre not constantly punching it. check out my other videos where I use this pack for an ebike and an electric motorcycle. It performs great for the ebike, but electric motorcycle is results in quite a bit of voltage sag for the reasons described above
The wires are super short though..that may help
You are correct. The continuous c rate is bottlenecked by the wire gauge. Typically the people that make these packs are concerned about their boost performance. Almost all the world record EV racers just use wire gauge connected packs. They are bottlenecked by the motor technology and the car chassis. Not so much the batteries.
Are lipos safe to use in this manner?
yes, from the the perspective of the lipos, there is no difference between being connected in series or not. lipo safety is all a matter of stressing the cells when charging and discharging. overcharging to too high a voltage or at too high a current is especially dangerous. In this case, Im charging a well below 1C and discharging at about 10C, which is very modest. In short, these cell are not stressed at all, so very safe to use. The downside is that Lipo cells have a relatively short cycle life, so even with modest use, this pack will not last more than 800 cycles before it loses a good amount of capacity. At that point, it may become a bit less safe to use due to higher internal resistance. In general, this was a fun build but I wouldn't recommend building packs like this for anything other than short-term hobby applications
what charger do you use?
just a 1000W power supply with a step up converter
Hi!! Would the max battery current output of these packs be 240A continuous or 480A burst??
both! it can run continously (until charge is depleted) at 240A and deliver short bursts (of a few seconds) at 480A. The burst thing is not a precise value and depends on the time interval the current is applied. For instance, you can get 1000A+ easily for fractions of a second (like for use in spot welding), or 800A for let's say 1s, or 350A for 10s. Basically, you can ask any amount of current of the battery pack and it will deliver it for whatever time it's capable of delivering it - if you force that current for too long, the voltage drop will become extreme, the internal resistance will increase, and the pack will be stressed to the point of damage. The peak values quoted on the pack are more snapshots under particular conditions of the manufacturer's choosing to give some sense of peak performance but don't give the full picture of performance at the limits in all situations
@@GaiusGarage thx so much for your detailed reply!!
Lets say you had an additional identical pack and wired in parallel. Would that let me go up to 480A continuous and 960A burst roughly speaking?
@@MrDeceptacon88 yes, capacity stacks in parallel but the C-rating is constant. so 24C @ 20Ah is 480A, 24C @ 40Ah is 960A
I doubt these packs could truly run 240a continuously until dead without nuking.
I plan on running some in my gokart will run some in parallel to split the load.
@@Bmr4life the specs show 12C for continouse discharge which works out to 240A. would be interesting to test.
lipo cell bad idea, because sometime lipo cell blotted if not property use or even you use it properly still blotting..
Any chance of those lipo's expanding when in use?
100%
@Gaius Garage it doesn't seem like you left much room for the expansion.
@@jeffmathews3746 so far so good
100V 500A and 10AWG wires? 10AWG is rated for like 30A? 🤔
yeah that is a bit of a bottleneck but it's unavoidable since this is the gauge wire provided on the Lipo packs - it would be very difficult to swap them out on the packs safely. but all the packs are wired in series, not parallel so the max current of the entire battery does not exceed what any of the individual packs are designed for (the voltage is irrelevant). also it's not quite correct to say 10AWG is rated for 30A - there is no such thing as a "rating" for a given wire gauge (manufacturers give this figure but it's an oversimplification). Additionally alot of the rating are for residential AC system assuming a long length of wire and have to follow high safety standards for residential electrical systems. It's a matter of wire length and the resulting voltage drop across the wire at a given current - so for DC systems you can absolutely pass 500A or even 1000A through 10AWG wire of a *short length* but the voltage drop would increase accordingly. The key factor here is the length of time the current is applied. 500A peak (just a few seconds) is totally ok. 150A-200A continuous is also ok for this gauge. but in both cases the voltage drop would result in more energy lost to heat and therefore less efficiency. there is a voltage drop per length of wire per gauge calculator online that you can use to design a given system
@@GaiusGarage Thanks for explanation - nice info. This video was very helpful and interesting at all 👍
@@GaiusGarage The differenc in the 10AWG you're using and the 10AWG you see rated for residential is the insulator. Silicone is rated much much higher.
There is a rating for wire and related ot insulation as well.
What kind of charger are you using for this?
it's a custom charger made from a power supply with a voltage boost converter
@@GaiusGarage gotcha thanks was think of going the lipo route for an up coming e-bike project
@@ryanwebster2167 I would advise against it. lipos are made for hobby project that require high discharge but not necessarily long cycle life which could be a low as 400 cycles. I made this pack just to have something compact and easy to build but I would never use lipos for a bike that I intend to ride long-term
@@GaiusGarage good to know thanks
What is the amp hour rating om the final result of the battery
20Ah, same as each individual lipo pack. They are connected in series so capacity does not change
@@GaiusGarage you mean Parallel?
@@darriusrivera1235no, series
@@GaiusGarage okay I did more research I understand now man idk why I was thinking series was taking half the ah
I saw a guy who used 2 of these packs but there were 6 cells instead of 4 and used a double xt90 connector (Took both xt90 ends [of the 2 batteries] and pluged them into a cable that came to one xt90 end [this end went to the controller]) with no BMS. Since an xt90 cable is being used, but yet the discharge rate is well over 90 amps, how is this possible? Do you really need a BMS as the guy I saw did not use one and his bike worked fine with a qs203 and sabvaton72150? Please clarify
ua-cam.com/video/b3_CGWRHU0A/v-deo.html
he's using the xt90 connector to connect the cells in series - the controller is a SV75150 so 150A max. xt90 is a bit small for 150A but it'll hold up for a while -- will probably end up deforming due to heat over time though
nordlocks are great
the best locking washer!
Print settings please?
I don't actually remember. material was PETG. I think I used a 0.6mm nozzle, but it's really up to you. nozzle and bed temp at standard values for PETG
@@GaiusGarage alr thanks, also one more question my friend has a 88.4.v max controller i think. will he still be able to use this even though it comes out to 100v he can right? he thinks im wrong
@@realkidcarter if his controller is spec'd to 88V max, connecting to this pack fully charged at 100V would likely damage it. You can overvolt a motor, but controllers have circuit components that will be damaged by excess voltage
May i ask which ant app version is that? It looks different than my ant app
Thats the old ANT version, no longer available.
Is this where you got the Idea to use LiPo packs? Lol
@imho7250 haha one idea...but i like the fact that they can be arranged in different shapes. One hug pack cannot be separated
@@MrDeceptacon88 , yes, but if the hug pack was printed in the shape of your battery compartment, maybe it could fit enough 20ah lipos to make a 40ah pack of 84v, 96v or perhaps 108v.
If his pack is rated at 240a continuous you should be able to do 400a continuous with both packs, maybe even 480 continuous.
With those amps you won’t even need 108v, so 2x 96v packs would probably do it and still stay above back EMF.
@imho7250 did you see the new ant bms video by the youtuber chris who builds molicel packs?
@@MrDeceptacon88 , i watched part of it. His basic message is good “Use a properly insulated BMS” . He’s backtracked a little on the “BMS cant balance a pack” but he still doesn’t understand the difference between the ANT and a $10 BMS as far as balancing capability. Anyone who has an ANT and knows how to use it knows it can balance the pack fairly quickly unless the cells have a problem.
Its not super fast like an active balance but if the battery is good then each time its fully charged it will be in balance with +/- 0.002v and that can be corrected very fast.
Heat gun only for the solder sleeves, not a blow lamp.🙄
£190 for 1 battery and your using 6 of them! £1140 for the batteries for this plus everything else. What do you think the battery is worth because it must cost £1400 at least to build
when I built this prices were much cheaper - the complete pack was around $800
Should of integrated a pc fan on to it some where 😉
I don’t understand how your batteries are 6s and you only have 5 wires on the charger cord I don’t understand how you’re title, and the packs say 6s yet your diagram only shows a 4s setup I’m so confused
the packs themselves are 4s and I put 6 of them in series. 6 x 4s = 24s
@@GaiusGarage yes but the link in your video is to a 6s pack ?
@@GaiusGarage so how does that make sense other then your comment just now stating that you used 4s everyone watching is thinking you’re using 6s unless they’ve built batteries before
@@GaiusGarage I mean even the picture before you click on the video shows a 22.2v 6s pack
@@darriusrivera1235the thumbnail image shows 4s packs. 14.4V if you look closely. but you are right, the link in the description is to 6s packs - this is a mistake I did not realize until now 😂
bro can you build be a battery for my E scooter I'm from the UK. and I love to get in contact with you
you can message me on Instagram @gaiusgarage but I'm in the US and shipping battery packs international is just too expensive - probably wouldn't be worth it for you
Great job
Would you consider making me 1?
yes, I can do it - would just need the Lipo cells or cost of them as a deposit up front to get started. Unfortunately the cells have gone up in price - they are $220 each currently and you would need 6 of them so that's about $1300. Cost of remaining materials+labor+shipping will bring you up $2k for the total
@@GaiusGarage you're exposing yourself to an insane amount of liability if you actually build these for people
Any interest in building a similar battery so sell?
I'm open to it. hmu on Instagram @gaiusgarage
id wager the price of those lipos that this pack is out of commission or had to be repaired or is at a fraction of its original performance at the time of writing this 2 years after the video was filmed, turnigy is very much an entry level brand and the lipo structure itself is not made for longevity at those discharge rates.
Why you do this
I ask myself the same thing
@@GaiusGarage Did you learn on your own by tinkering or did you study electrical engineering?
@@Qapital_J I did study electrical engineering but that's mostly useful with integrated circuit design - this kind of stuff barely touches any advanced EE concepts so I mostly learned by doing projects like this
@@GaiusGaragehat’s pretty cool. I’m trying to get into a hobby. I’ve tinkered with small electronics before nothing too crazy.
I like the 3D printed housing you made for the batteries. I use 20AH LiFePO4 at work that’s roughly the size of two of your batteries and I’m thinking of enclosing it and leaving the Anderson plug available for it to work how a DSLR battery works were it just slides in and out cause the batteries are getting mistreated to where you can see the individual cells. Any tips would be nice!
You're gonna need a massive charger to charge those things
not necessarily - any charger capable of 100V will work. its only 20Ah so current should not be more than 20A. Lipo is a more volatile chemistry and most fires happen during charging so I charge at 10A (0.5C) max. So all you need is a 1000W power supply and a boost converter to take it up to 100V
@@GaiusGarage Ah that does make sense. I've got an ebike, which uses li-ion batteries, but before I got into ebikes I was into FPV drones, so I know all about the dangers of lipo batteries...even had one explode on me after a particularly bad crash.
I'm a new subscriber, but if the rest of your videos are on par with this one, you'll have an avid watcher in me. Great video, be safe out there!
@@kwadkrazy6078 I fly FPV too 🤘 - been lucky so far with my lipo packs despite some pretty bad crashes. Just one other video for now - I have a bunch of footage of various projects, definitely planning to be more active so thanks for the sub!!
I know theh P45B was pretty much impossible to get 9 months ago but this "12C-24C" pack is probably equivalent to a P42A and those are $5 each. So I"m just really confused why. you would choose the sketchiest of all chemistries/form factors? Another option would have been the SPIM08HP cells from Battery Hookup. Crazy powerful and pretty dense energy and power wise. They are modular so besides making up your own aluminum bus blocks its super duper easy.
Def hope you are doing some serious temp monitoring.
Wait you dont ride this bike? Are you letting other people ride it? You're gonna get sued for everything you have when this battery goes up in flames while someone is on it. This is the one chemistry I would never ever let someone use if I built a battery with it. I'm really confused why you are building such a high discharge pack with such small cables. The series connections will have all the current flowing through them and they are 10AWG. Anything past 100A and those are going to get REALLY hot. 200A and they will melt no question about it.
P42A would’ve been an option but I was too lazy to do a bunch of spot welding on top of copper. these were simple to assemble. I actually have a bunch of SPIM08HP cells - energy density is not great - 24s 20Ah pack would be much bigger than this lipo pack and not fit the application. Lipo is much more safe than the reputation it has - most fires result from overcharging a damaged cell, and because Lipos are typically in hobby applications (drones, rc cars) damaged cells are common
Careful not to drop your battery 💥
that would not end well
@@GaiusGarage if you can, I would add some padding to protect those expensive cells.
Oh also, what wires did you connect for the bms switch?
this is so dumb, you could fit a tiny gasoline engine and a really really small tank and probably make a gbike that runs way further and faster
I'd say that ebikes and gbikes are both as smart and dumb as each other which is why I love both
Can you please make for me this super Block I can send you my email
message me on Instagram @emoto.os
@@GaiusGarage I did Also I sent to you my email please ping me