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So basically, in summary: Mat cutting is bad for martial arts because the only skill required for mat cutting is cutting. It doesn't take into account ability to maintain a guard *while* doing that cutting; or slicing, or stabbing, which are both important to the proper use of a sword (with a focus on slicing in this case, due to the tradition of the art studied)-- All of which dramatically change the mechanics of movement, and can lead to the development of a form dedicated to mat cutting, rather than a form dedicated to sword combat, unless you warily guard against that. It's like the difference between being an axeman, and a lumberjack.
I'm so glad Seki Sensei covered this. I've been telling the students I've taught for years that "Cutting through an object doesn't make you a better fighter. It makes you a Parlor Chef with a bigger knife". Combat, and cutting a mat are both completely different experiences. And I always made a point to express that in our kata. Thank you Seki Sensei for another fantastic lession!
@@BasedR0nin You do realize there are plenty of instructors and black belts of different Ryu-ha that watch these videos, all with their own dojos and students, right?
Perhaps mat cutting should be taught differently. If one can't cut the mat without compensating with bad kenjutsu form, then they are not ready for mat cutting.
Having practiced sport fencing before I continued with historical european fencing I see this issue as very prevalent in many technical applications. Many fencers do big round cuts, because it is the only way to properly test cut with a straight sword. In sport fencing you generally expand towards the opponent and also avoid loosing the threat to the opponent with the tip. I found that there are clear indications in the historical manuscripts, that this is also the correct technique for "real" fencing. Thank you very much for this clear presentation of the differences between test cutting and fencing.
Indeed one of the biggest obstacles to teaching new fencers was the necessity to keep the point in line, and only small moves were required to complete a successful parry.
Yet most of HEMA coming from sport fencing are quite often just hitting with the flat of the sword, and trying to touch you whatever you do against them, even if they could land a flat touch on the gloves, while getting smacked in the head. Pretty annoying tbh. And it's getting more common with fighting in a paste and right of way being introduced to tournaments.
@@kristoflajber8236 thank you for your answer. Interesting what you write about 'right of way'. I fenced Epee (no R-of-R and all the body being legit target) mainly because in tournaments I got fed up with the gamesmanship and arguing about legitimacy of hits due to 'right of way'. Particularly sabre which wasn't electrified at the time and therefore most of the bouts were taken up with arguing, rants, and what is now known as 'rage quitting' as speed of rallies developed and it was difficult to preside and judge accurately. However, the argument in favour of 'R-of-R is that if someone was attacking you with a live you will make sure you defend yourself with a parry, stop or time hit to prevent injury. I don't know much about HEMA, but I consider that 'right of way' may stop fights descending into an undisciplined and pointless brawl.
@@johncartwright8154 well in theory that works like that, my experience is that the fighters will disregard the opponents sword and jump in suicidal situations, because he will get the point anyway. So lots of threats doesn't work. And this probably doesn't work, since the quality of contact is not valued, a tap on the gloves, with the flat of the sword is the same as getting a head cut with the edge. There's better ways to eliminate doubles and afterblows.
First of all you should know that most sport fencers do not know how to cut and slash. Most fencers learn foil and epee and have no idea about proper saber techniques. Second, in regards to proper fencing, there is to note, that you would get a point in foil and saber, if you attack correctly and your opponent doesn't take your blade before counter attacking. This ruling reflects historical description of Indes, which is usually accompanied with some blade work like versetzen or winden, when you are being attacked. So in both cases, sport fencing and Hema, the same result should be judged. However, this only applies for proper technique. If you consider "vor", you are also supposed to attack in a way, that hinders your opponent to get anything done like hitting your hands. @@kristoflajber8236
This video not only was incredibly insightful, but it gave me a profound epiphany of a childhood memory. I now have a much more full understanding behind Goemon's famous quote, "once again I have cut a worthless object". Always just believed it was a hilariously pithy statement from the one serious character in a goofy series, which it is, but now I can more readily understand his disdain. All of his combat prowess just to cut a worthless object. Yet another fantastic video! Thanks so much!
I love how excited Seki Sensei is to explain the philosophy and techniques of the Ryuha. Just seeing his passion for the subject draws me deeply into what he's teaching
Wow, the commentary in this video is very clear and logical. I've never thought about the differences before. Instead of completely severing an object, warriors trained for actual combat focus more on effectively inflicting damage while matntaining their stance
This is such a good video. In some European saber traditions cuts are delivered from the wrist only (or with as little elbow/shoulder motion as possible), but good luck finding a video of someone cutting even a water bottle with proper form on the internet; as soon as they feel like they'll be judged for a "weak" cut people will put their whole body into it.
Thanks very much for explaining, Sensei. You make a lot of sense. I'm a U.S. Marine veteran. This is analogous to training for combat by only shooting in competition matches. They are not the same. Thanks for the translation and for posting this video, Shogo-san.
That was a lot of food for thought! Thanks! I have long noticed that people (also Japanese) on UA-cam that do tameshigiri are using techniques that differ from what I have been taught in iaiado class constitutes a "good" cut. Now I begin to understand why there is a difference and how to relate to it..
Great video Shogo! I am always impressed with Seki Sensei. His movements are so fluid and his description of technique is simple and direct. Mastery of an art is all about mastering the basics... I remember watching a video on your channel about things you did not like about iaido, specifically the arrogance you perceived from some of your previous instructors. It seems to me that you have found the right people to practice with now. Congrats on that.
Very interesting! Also very rarely (if ever) discussed; the distinction between the two techniques. My respect and thanks to your Sensei for both sharing his knowledge with us, and for being willing to peel back a bit of the "mythos" surrounding katana combat to demonstrate the difference between martial art, and show/test cutting. And thank you to you, for translating and helping to bring such a thing to an audience that otherwise would not be able to share in this wisdom and cultural enlightenment!
The most amazing thing is Seiki Sensei's slash almost focus on the cut itself so much that inertia making the divided upper cut stay where it is. And inspecting his shoulder telling me that he didn't even push very hard...
Firstly, best wishes for tomorrow's ambitious space mission of Japan ‘Moon Sniper’. This was one of the most educational and eye-opening video. I'm from India and I can't have a Katana in my country, so I practice with my scale. Your videos are really inspiring me and I am thinking of making a wooden training Katana to test my skills... Arigatō Gozaimasu.
Thanks again, Shogo and Seki Sensê, for shining a great light on topics we westerners usually have poor (if any) access to. The hints Seki Sensê gives on REAL FIGHT with a Katana are really a richess. Domo Arigato. God BLESS YOU people.
Thank You very much. the video changed my view on tatami practice cutting comletely. now i know ow to cut right, been practicioning Iaido. Thank You Sensei. i always felt tatami cutting is off, teaches bad habits and leaves You open but it was my instinctive impression and i thought i may be wrong becouse nobody else pointed it out. Thank You again, That was my most important lesson in Iaido
This video came just in time. I’m a new Iaido student that has been training for a few months and want to try Tameshigiri on mats soon with my katana. This video clearly explains the difference of technique between actual swordsmanship and cutting mats. Thank you for the explanation. Good video.
This is VERY a insightful. As a kendo-ka I wonder how/if this should inform my practice… There are all sorts of things in kendo as well that are a combination of carryover from tradition and form and practical use. They don’t always match up. Some people view it as a sport, some people view it as a martial art, and some people view it as like training to actually fight. It’s all and none of those. Also I really personally find it distasteful when someone dismisses a certain discipline just because it’s not necessarily the “original” thing. Yes iaido and kenjutsu and mat cutting and kendo and all those are going to use different techniques, they’re different skills and disciplines. I like how Seki Sensei has trained in kenjutsu, iaido, and mat cutting and differentiates them, appreciating the differences, not judging them.
How cool is this😊👍Mat cutting looks fun! But thats why we love Asayama Ichiden Ryuha it's all about the reality of combat and it's even in their mat cutting practice. Master Seki has opened our eyes to really using a Katana 😊 Take care. Stay safe 🙏 John and Kate
Yup, that's what my teacher always said. Back in that school, the only time we did cutting was when somebody got a new sword. And that was more of a special occasion back before mass-produced Katana.
Realy insightful. Like when kids play sword fight and hit each others swords, the one who stabs all the time gets told to fight properly! Fight the target, dont just try cut it.
I learn something valuable from every single one of these videos and yes you have changed my mind on the efficacy of mat cutting as a training tool with your presentation.
I've been searching the interwebs for techniques, katas and for a deeper understanding of Kenjustu. This channel has been a great help. Domo Senseiand Shogo!
This is a big misperception in western swordsmanship too. The things that make cutting through a test target successful have more to do with the speed of the cut and follow through, but when fencing a person in a match, it's far more important to maintain control of the opponent and readiness to counter when the move to attack rather than trying to cleave through their whole torso. Same with winding up with the whole body to strike. It is more important to maintain your safety through constrained attacks that prevent the opponent from attacking you.
I think this is more a misunderstanding of what these test cuts are supposed to be for. The point is not to practice your cuts on test targets all the time, hoping they will eventually make you good at combat. The point is to test whether the cuts you have trained for combat all this time are actually any good. And the most important part of these tests is neither speed nor follow through, but edge alignment.
@@sitnamkrad I would disagree with that on a couple points. The point of test cutting is more about testing the sword than the swordsman, both historically, and still today if you consider fencing against an opponent. The way you cut a target has very little to do with how you cut to an opponent. If you want to be good at cutting a resisting opponent it is better to train with blunt weapons since most of the issues are down to finding or creating openings where you can cut the opponent without being cut. If you can do that consistently, the specifics of the wound are less important. As for edge alignment, generally the stiffer the blade, the more forgiving the alignment, yet we see video of people with machetes, which are very flexible and comparatively hard to align, manage to harm each other without any special form or technique. Again you don't need an amazing perfectly honed strike to get the the job done, as much as you need to minimize the amount of risk you take when you make a strike. As for cutting targets for it's own sake (which is fun), again, stiffer blade gives you a wider margin of error, so with a katana you can get the job done without perfect alignment. Most commonly I see people fail to cut a target due to clenching up and slowing down the cut as they make impact, again assuming a rigid blade such as a katana.
@@WinnipegKnightlyArts Sorry but this is incorrect on multiple levels. Assuming your intention is to take out your opponent as quickly as possible, how you cut an opponent is incredibly important. Edge alignment can make the difference between someone having a cut in their arm, and someone no longer having an arm. Of course defence is still very important. And depending on the time period, every wound would very likely be lethal eventually. But if you need to end your opponent right now, proper cutting techniques will help immensely. And that's also the main reason for using a blunt sword while training, because you don't want to end your sparring partner. And it's perfectly possible to train and test edge alignment with a blunt sword. We used an old blunt sword and a block of clay for that. Proper technique would easily get that sword through the clay as if it wasn't even there. Bad technique would get your sword stuck in the clay halfway in. Your comparison to machetes is also questionable, because those are in fact not very flexible at all. Which makes sense because it is rather short and meant as a tool for hacking/chopping plants, not a weapon. (perhaps you meant something else?) Can you harm someone with it? Sure. But you can do that with any sharp object. Just because you drew blood doesn't mean you won the fight.
Wow that were some amazing insights! As I never practiced shinkendo or iaido but did shizan I never made that connection. As if it's necessary to cut your opponent into pieces to win a fight haha. But I easily thought the better I cut, the better I could handle the blade, now painfully learned that obvious mistake. Thanks!
An excellent video and it is great that you have highlighted this important point - retaining the Martial edge and its technique how it should be done and why is more important than mere cutting of the mats. I love watching your videos! Thank you for doing such a great job at it.
"You shouldn't criticize something you have no experience with or cant do" speaks in a lot of dimensions for us people. Even in Martial arts you need to have experience before forming criticizing opinions.
These realistic reasons for the methods, and practical application of them, are what make Asayama Ichiden Ryu so mesmerizing. I have blisters on my feet and hands and my knees are so very sore, and yet I still have to force myself to stop practicing. Thank you so much for the content!
I always thought mat cutting was a part of training as an Eastern style swordsman, Seki Sensei's breakdown makes perfect sense though! Great video, thank you!
I think this is a very common concept among all the martial arts, either with weapon or not. You should preserve the capability to response with your opponent's movement, not just going all out, in most of the cases. Thanks for Seki sensei's explanation and demostration.
Thank You so much, Seki Sensei and Shogo-san, for making this video! 👍🏻👏🏻 I actually wish that ALL serious content-providers on this (or any) platform, who upload videos about test-cutting (in relation to martial arts) - or “backyard-cutting” (for fun!), for that matter - would periodically post a disclaimer that clearly states SOMETHING to the effect of: "Cutting objects with a sharp, pointy metal implement does NOT a great Swordsman (or Martial Artist) make!" This obviously (!) applies also to people who have conditioned their bodies (and minds) to breaking hard materials (bricks, tiles, wooden boards, etc.) with parts of their own body. ‘Iron-body’ training is (likewise) only one aspect of martial arts. An analogy from my own Scandinavian cultural sphere that would also apply: Just because I am proficient in cutting firewood with a splitting axe, doesn’t automatically imply that I am a skillful, battle axe wielding Viking warrior... A smart fellow once said (and I’m paraphrasing here): "Remember that a wooden board doesn’t hit back"! 😉
This is most enlightening! Naively, on taking up Iaido, I presumed that successful tameshigiri was the pinnacle of achievement in the art, as in my style it is only practised by Shodan and above. I think that visualising a virtual opponent, his actions and reactions is one of the most difficult aspects of Iaido. (In Mugai Ryu, using Iaito we do not have a partner for kata, except when performing kenjitsu with bokken of course). I can see that lauding the cutting of mats is a hindrance to this, as one's blade swings wide and is no threat to the actions of one's adversary, making one vulnerable to counter moves. We are taught to maintain pressure at all times with the kissaki always threatening the opponent.
This is fascinating. I didn't even know that using this weapon is more focused on just cutting with the tip of the sword. I thought that you had to use the entire blade!
oshiete kurete, arigatou gozaimasu. おしえてくれてありがとうございますよう。 I have played Bujinkan for almost 20 years, Wing Tsun for 5 years, Akuzawa sensei's Aunkai, and some Aikido. I am happy to see masters like Seki 先生 (sensei - teacher) share their skills. It is really something good. Thank you. Particularly, I like how Seki sensei shows us how to use the "axis" of the body.
I love how wholesome Seki Sensei is. I think one thing that test cutting is really good for is training/confirming your edge alignment. Especially with springier blades, if your edge alignment is bad you may even bounce off the target, so it can help revealing flaws in your cuts. But it's certainly good to remind people that it is not the martial art, it is just test cutting.
Superb content as usual, thank you so much for sharing such important information. These videos are great and will keep this tradition alive for future generations.
The only time we ever did mat cutting at my old school was when the Sensei or one of the senior students got a new sword. This was many years before you could buy mass-produced budget Katana, so they were mostly Gendaito or remounted Gunto, so it was a bit of a special occasion.
This was excellent. A very clear, well-demonstrated compare and contrast discussion of a crucial distinction that can apply to any sword style or tradition, IMHO. Thank you for furthering my education.
This was illuminating, a great lesson on technique, body mechanics and bad habits. The point was even reinforced by his skill to actually cut the mats, because as he said you have to know how a thing is done to be able to undesterdand its problems
Man i wish i could attend weekly classes. I love his teaching style. Ive always thought it would be more effective to cut as hes shown with the tip. Im sure once someone takes one slice they arent going to want another.
I thought a Lord retaining your services and you swearing loyalty made you Samurai. 😅 That being said Shogo and Seki Sensei's willingness to share glimpses into the techniques and history of Japanese warriors always makes my day and speaks to their dedication.
The horizontal cut reminds me of what I was taught when I was learning Toyama Ryu batto-jutsu. One of the kata had the sword leave the scabbard and cut horizontally left to right across the eye level of the opponent, stopping just to the right of their head to keep the tip of the sword on them in case they came back for more. Given that Toyama ryu was meant to train soldiers quickly how to use the sword efficiently it makes sense.
Good content. This is similar to how my school taught me as well: only cut to the point where the tip of the blade exits the opponent's body, and cut with the concept of whip/throw instead of strength.
My basics are from Toyama ryu (original) Morinaga ha, and what i saw in this video is interesting. Exc. Sensei Kinji Nakagawa do katate do/suihei giri (horizontal cut) on bamboo/tatami with clean cut and still stops kissaki towards to the opponent, just like Isao Machi (Shushin ryu). We all follow rule that tip of the blade shoud direct on opponent after cut. I need this side of battojutsu analyze more.
Great video, really interesting watching it as a longsword practitioner. We don't really do anything like iado (I've tried it with a longsword, and the long, straight blade doesn't lend itself particularly well to it) but we have borrowed tameshigiri as a way to test the validity of our regular strikes. I've certainly found it to be a useful tool and when I'm practicing at home I usually try to "fence" the mat (in other words, I try to move as if I were facing an armed opponent.) One point I've heard some proponents of test-cutting make is that cutting part way through a mat doesn't really translate to cutting into a person, especially a person wearing clothes, which can be relatively difficult to cut through if you don't have good mechanics.
I think it's a common problem I've thought about: There are certain trainings we refer to as "martial arts" that actually are not meant for fighting. There's just not really a word in the English language for it, and I guess it's the same for Japan.
Would it be possible for Seki sensei to show us how to properly hold the katana? I know styles differ, and I would like to know how he grips his. Like exactly how and where to put your hands on the tsuka. Thank you! Have a great day!
Thank you for the explanation. . In all honesty I was under this impression that the more intense cut was always preferable to get the battle over and done with, but reflecting on what was pointed out that never happens in a real fight. No one gets the fight done in one swing except in the most favorable conditions and unlikely to boot. A flashy one and done strike is impractical to practice to perfection when its more likely to miss like sensei pointed out, though being able to cut well in general is still good to practice all the same. So, in essence, cut well but fight better.
I have always been fascinated with sword forms and techniques, most particularly those of Japanese culture. I love your series and the explanations of the mechanics!
Great advice as always.loce watching your videos. I would really appreciate you doing a video of self defence using a metal walking stick against an opponent using a sword & knife. Thank you 🇬🇧☸️
That was very informative and an awesome display of techniques. I'm a disabled US Marine veteran and would love to practice another discipline. I feel it would help mentally and physically. The katana has always been my favorite weapon, and the feudal Japan Era was always most interesting to me. I love the architecture and apparel. How do I begin my journey in practicing Tameshigiri?
The American Bladesmith Society requires cutting 2x4s and free-hanging rope, and I've noticed the skills it takes to perform those cuts probably wouldn't directly translate to a combat situation.
Just imagine that semi-cut mat is you're opponent's throat. You didn't make an overexagerrated (= telegraphed) huge swipe so your blade tip is immediately pointing at them right after the cut (zanshin) because you were able to quickly recover it. And you're enemy, having his carotid artery or/and jugular vein cut - is squirting blood like a geiser - he's literally walking dead and will be literally dead within a minute. You don't have to behead your opponent, de-limb them or even kill them to win the fight. What you do need, however - if you want to survive, is to be prepared to parry or do a follow-up cut in case you miss or something other goes wrong - but that's only possible if you're cutting like a kenjutsu-ka, not like a tameshigiri-ka.
I must admit when I discover these incorrect systems it makes me feel that the systems we learn in US are somewhat money makers only. I enjoy the sword and I find you also must know the language. I was taught that the movement before sheathing was to remove the blood from your sword only to discover it was a decorative method before the emperor. Like breaking boards, concrete slabs, punching and kicking trees in Martial arts is also things never practiced in the Asian countries during the early historic times. I so do enjoy those who are authentic. I thank both you and Sensei for delivering truth. It is such a breath of fresh air to realize that you both follow the true way. Again much appreciated.
I spent 4 years practicing AIkido and was working in a kitchen at the same time. I would argue that I learned half of what I learned about AIkido in that kitchen. This was because I learned how to properly use a knife and I also learned that AIkido used cutting techniques but without a blade. Now, I'm an American and I presume that my Aikido dojo wasn't likely to mention things such as actual cutting practice but I never woudl have seen the link between aikido and cutting if I had not done cooking and Aikido at the same time for so long. Let me be more specific. A cut is purely applied friction. A cut does not need to be focused like how a blade cuts. For example, a river can cut a valley out of a mountain over many years. I could, "cut," my way through a wooden table using enough sandpaper. A blade focuses a cut, which makes it more efficient and quick but a blade is not required to cut. All that is required is constant application of friction. A real cut should feel like a match being struck against a match box. You should be dragging the blade along your target, even if done quickly and cleanly the friction itself is what is doing the cutting. Aikido too requires friction to work. Many aikido techniques bleed and steel momentum from their opponents by making contact with their opponent and letting their opponent move the Aikidoka with their own momentum. Think of it like one gear moving another gear. It is precisely this subtle control of friction that gives an Aikidoa control over the fight. An Aikidoka uses subtle friction to slow down an opponent just like how breaks use friction to slow down and gain control of a vehicle. Proper Aikido technique is like slowing to a comfortable stop. However Aikido done more quickly can look like a person slamming on the breaks. So while I'll 100% agree that learning how to cut is just that, I do believe that not knowing how to cut will prevent a student from ever getting past introductory levels of technique.
I guess yeah. In boxing It's like training "bad technique" using massive wild swings at a punching bag because it looks cooler when the bag is swinging everywhere instead of training more fast, less telegraphed strikes.
What Seki Sensei is saying all aligns with HEMA principles as well. "Tool" use vs using the sword as a weapon are two related yet mostly different things. It's like a Venn diagram with only 20% of Tool vs. Weapon overlapping.
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So basically, in summary:
Mat cutting is bad for martial arts because the only skill required for mat cutting is cutting. It doesn't take into account ability to maintain a guard *while* doing that cutting;
or slicing, or stabbing, which are both important to the proper use of a sword (with a focus on slicing in this case, due to the tradition of the art studied)--
All of which dramatically change the mechanics of movement, and can lead to the development of a form dedicated to mat cutting, rather than a form dedicated to sword combat, unless you warily guard against that.
It's like the difference between being an axeman, and a lumberjack.
A lumberjack is an axeman. A maker of axes is not automatically a lumberjack.
@@MtRevDr Who mentioned any thing about making axes?
An axeman as in someone who fights with an axe.
i think the first one can be improved threw the right training!
@@killerkraut9179 All of it can be improved through proper training, but the proper training to improve these things isn't simply cutting mats.
@@williamchristy9463 but maybe cutting mats in a Martial proper way!
I'm so glad Seki Sensei covered this.
I've been telling the students I've taught for years that "Cutting through an object doesn't make you a better fighter. It makes you a Parlor Chef with a bigger knife".
Combat, and cutting a mat are both completely different experiences. And I always made a point to express that in our kata.
Thank you Seki Sensei for another fantastic lession!
indeed, it is a warfare not a kitchen..
Lmao what “students”
@@BasedR0nin You do realize there are plenty of instructors and black belts of different Ryu-ha that watch these videos, all with their own dojos and students, right?
Perhaps mat cutting should be taught differently. If one can't cut the mat without compensating with bad kenjutsu form, then they are not ready for mat cutting.
a sushi chef might not be so good in combat with an angry fish 🙂
Very wise indeed.
Ha! , That's a good one 🙂
Ha ha ha ha ha.
That means fish is fresh! 🧐
And healthy! 🧐
funny, but wise. ppl should drill this in into their heads to help them achieve their goals.
But sushi can be smashed with angry fist.
Having practiced sport fencing before I continued with historical european fencing I see this issue as very prevalent in many technical applications. Many fencers do big round cuts, because it is the only way to properly test cut with a straight sword.
In sport fencing you generally expand towards the opponent and also avoid loosing the threat to the opponent with the tip. I found that there are clear indications in the historical manuscripts, that this is also the correct technique for "real" fencing.
Thank you very much for this clear presentation of the differences between test cutting and fencing.
Indeed one of the biggest obstacles to teaching new fencers was the necessity to keep the point in line, and only small moves were required to complete a successful parry.
Yet most of HEMA coming from sport fencing are quite often just hitting with the flat of the sword, and trying to touch you whatever you do against them, even if they could land a flat touch on the gloves, while getting smacked in the head. Pretty annoying tbh. And it's getting more common with fighting in a paste and right of way being introduced to tournaments.
@@kristoflajber8236 thank you for your answer. Interesting what you write about 'right of way'. I fenced Epee (no R-of-R and all the body being legit target) mainly because in tournaments I got fed up with the gamesmanship and arguing about legitimacy of hits due to 'right of way'. Particularly sabre which wasn't electrified at the time and therefore most of the bouts were taken up with arguing, rants, and what is now known as 'rage quitting' as speed of rallies developed and it was difficult to preside and judge accurately.
However, the argument in favour of 'R-of-R is that if someone was attacking you with a live you will make sure you defend yourself with a parry, stop or time hit to prevent injury.
I don't know much about HEMA, but I consider that 'right of way' may stop fights descending into an undisciplined and pointless brawl.
@@johncartwright8154 well in theory that works like that, my experience is that the fighters will disregard the opponents sword and jump in suicidal situations, because he will get the point anyway. So lots of threats doesn't work. And this probably doesn't work, since the quality of contact is not valued, a tap on the gloves, with the flat of the sword is the same as getting a head cut with the edge. There's better ways to eliminate doubles and afterblows.
First of all you should know that most sport fencers do not know how to cut and slash. Most fencers learn foil and epee and have no idea about proper saber techniques. Second, in regards to proper fencing, there is to note, that you would get a point in foil and saber, if you attack correctly and your opponent doesn't take your blade before counter attacking. This ruling reflects historical description of Indes, which is usually accompanied with some blade work like versetzen or winden, when you are being attacked. So in both cases, sport fencing and Hema, the same result should be judged. However, this only applies for proper technique. If you consider "vor", you are also supposed to attack in a way, that hinders your opponent to get anything done like hitting your hands. @@kristoflajber8236
Seki Sensei: Here, let me show you a bad cut now.
*Does a good cut on accident/out of habit*
Seki: Oops
That was quite funny and amazing at the same time 😆😮
Task failed successfully.
Did it twice with bad form(on purpose). This man has impressive katana skills.
The embodiment of the old advice, "Don't practice until you get it right. Practice until you can't get it wrong."
Lol, that was the most fun part! I had burst out laughing too! 😂🤣 Seki Sensei is just too good! 🥰
This video not only was incredibly insightful, but it gave me a profound epiphany of a childhood memory. I now have a much more full understanding behind Goemon's famous quote, "once again I have cut a worthless object". Always just believed it was a hilariously pithy statement from the one serious character in a goofy series, which it is, but now I can more readily understand his disdain. All of his combat prowess just to cut a worthless object.
Yet another fantastic video! Thanks so much!
I love how excited Seki Sensei is to explain the philosophy and techniques of the Ryuha. Just seeing his passion for the subject draws me deeply into what he's teaching
Wow, the commentary in this video is very clear and logical. I've never thought about the differences before. Instead of completely severing an object, warriors trained for actual combat focus more on effectively inflicting damage while matntaining their stance
This was really interesting. I always appreciate Seki Sensei's respect for other approaches and disciplines as well.
This is such a good video. In some European saber traditions cuts are delivered from the wrist only (or with as little elbow/shoulder motion as possible), but good luck finding a video of someone cutting even a water bottle with proper form on the internet; as soon as they feel like they'll be judged for a "weak" cut people will put their whole body into it.
It's amazing that such a small movement can do so much damage.
Thanks very much for explaining, Sensei. You make a lot of sense. I'm a U.S. Marine veteran. This is analogous to training for combat by only shooting in competition matches. They are not the same. Thanks for the translation and for posting this video, Shogo-san.
That was a lot of food for thought! Thanks! I have long noticed that people (also Japanese) on UA-cam that do tameshigiri are using techniques that differ from what I have been taught in iaiado class constitutes a "good" cut. Now I begin to understand why there is a difference and how to relate to it..
Great video Shogo!
I am always impressed with Seki Sensei. His movements are so fluid and his description of technique is simple and direct. Mastery of an art is all about mastering the basics...
I remember watching a video on your channel about things you did not like about iaido, specifically the arrogance you perceived from some of your previous instructors. It seems to me that you have found the right people to practice with now. Congrats on that.
Very interesting! Also very rarely (if ever) discussed; the distinction between the two techniques.
My respect and thanks to your Sensei for both sharing his knowledge with us, and for being willing to peel back a bit of the "mythos" surrounding katana combat to demonstrate the difference between martial art, and show/test cutting.
And thank you to you, for translating and helping to bring such a thing to an audience that otherwise would not be able to share in this wisdom and cultural enlightenment!
The most amazing thing is Seiki Sensei's slash almost focus on the cut itself so much that inertia making the divided upper cut stay where it is. And inspecting his shoulder telling me that he didn't even push very hard...
I was just watching this on his original channel. I'm glad you made an English version lol keep up the good work!
4年間剣術を修行しながら関先生が言及した問題について深く考えました。 最近の動画を見て、関先生の意見と私の意見が変わらないことを発見できて嬉しかったです。 これからは私の剣術修練の方向を確実に決められるようになりました。 誠にありがとうございます.
This is the MOST Important point I’ve seen on cutting techniques anywhere on UA-cam ! THANKS !
Appreciate the time and energy you put creating videos for us.
Firstly, best wishes for tomorrow's ambitious space mission of Japan ‘Moon Sniper’.
This was one of the most educational and eye-opening video. I'm from India and I can't have a Katana in my country, so I practice with my scale. Your videos are really inspiring me and I am thinking of making a wooden training Katana to test my skills...
Arigatō Gozaimasu.
Thanks again, Shogo and Seki Sensê, for shining a great light on topics we westerners usually have poor (if any) access to. The hints Seki Sensê gives on REAL FIGHT with a Katana are really a richess. Domo Arigato. God BLESS YOU people.
Thank You very much. the video changed my view on tatami practice cutting comletely. now i know ow to cut right, been practicioning Iaido. Thank You Sensei.
i always felt tatami cutting is off, teaches bad habits and leaves You open but it was my instinctive impression and i thought i may be wrong becouse nobody else pointed it out. Thank You again, That was my most important lesson in Iaido
We are very glad you say so!
This video came just in time. I’m a new Iaido student that has been training for a few months and want to try Tameshigiri on mats soon with my katana. This video clearly explains the difference of technique between actual swordsmanship and cutting mats. Thank you for the explanation. Good video.
This is VERY a insightful. As a kendo-ka I wonder how/if this should inform my practice… There are all sorts of things in kendo as well that are a combination of carryover from tradition and form and practical use. They don’t always match up. Some people view it as a sport, some people view it as a martial art, and some people view it as like training to actually fight. It’s all and none of those. Also I really personally find it distasteful when someone dismisses a certain discipline just because it’s not necessarily the “original” thing. Yes iaido and kenjutsu and mat cutting and kendo and all those are going to use different techniques, they’re different skills and disciplines. I like how Seki Sensei has trained in kenjutsu, iaido, and mat cutting and differentiates them, appreciating the differences, not judging them.
Thanks!
How cool is this😊👍Mat cutting looks fun! But thats why we love Asayama Ichiden Ryuha it's all about the reality of combat and it's even in their mat cutting practice. Master Seki has opened our eyes to really using a Katana 😊 Take care. Stay safe 🙏
John and Kate
I've been saying that for the longest time!
Tameshigiri is ment to be a test for the blade not the sword prowess of the wielder.
Yup, that's what my teacher always said. Back in that school, the only time we did cutting was when somebody got a new sword. And that was more of a special occasion back before mass-produced Katana.
when some learnt a little, they choose to be fools when truths requires just a bit more effort in learning.
Realy insightful. Like when kids play sword fight and hit each others swords, the one who stabs all the time gets told to fight properly! Fight the target, dont just try cut it.
Very informative and rational explanation of the different between mat cutting and martial skills. Mat cutting is still very fun though!
I learn something valuable from every single one of these videos and yes you have changed my mind on the efficacy of mat cutting as a training tool with your presentation.
I've been searching the interwebs for techniques, katas and for a deeper understanding of Kenjustu. This channel has been a great help. Domo Senseiand Shogo!
This is a big misperception in western swordsmanship too. The things that make cutting through a test target successful have more to do with the speed of the cut and follow through, but when fencing a person in a match, it's far more important to maintain control of the opponent and readiness to counter when the move to attack rather than trying to cleave through their whole torso. Same with winding up with the whole body to strike. It is more important to maintain your safety through constrained attacks that prevent the opponent from attacking you.
basically all forms of combat.
I think this is more a misunderstanding of what these test cuts are supposed to be for. The point is not to practice your cuts on test targets all the time, hoping they will eventually make you good at combat. The point is to test whether the cuts you have trained for combat all this time are actually any good. And the most important part of these tests is neither speed nor follow through, but edge alignment.
@@sitnamkrad I would disagree with that on a couple points. The point of test cutting is more about testing the sword than the swordsman, both historically, and still today if you consider fencing against an opponent. The way you cut a target has very little to do with how you cut to an opponent. If you want to be good at cutting a resisting opponent it is better to train with blunt weapons since most of the issues are down to finding or creating openings where you can cut the opponent without being cut. If you can do that consistently, the specifics of the wound are less important.
As for edge alignment, generally the stiffer the blade, the more forgiving the alignment, yet we see video of people with machetes, which are very flexible and comparatively hard to align, manage to harm each other without any special form or technique. Again you don't need an amazing perfectly honed strike to get the the job done, as much as you need to minimize the amount of risk you take when you make a strike.
As for cutting targets for it's own sake (which is fun), again, stiffer blade gives you a wider margin of error, so with a katana you can get the job done without perfect alignment. Most commonly I see people fail to cut a target due to clenching up and slowing down the cut as they make impact, again assuming a rigid blade such as a katana.
@@WinnipegKnightlyArts Sorry but this is incorrect on multiple levels. Assuming your intention is to take out your opponent as quickly as possible, how you cut an opponent is incredibly important. Edge alignment can make the difference between someone having a cut in their arm, and someone no longer having an arm. Of course defence is still very important. And depending on the time period, every wound would very likely be lethal eventually. But if you need to end your opponent right now, proper cutting techniques will help immensely. And that's also the main reason for using a blunt sword while training, because you don't want to end your sparring partner. And it's perfectly possible to train and test edge alignment with a blunt sword. We used an old blunt sword and a block of clay for that. Proper technique would easily get that sword through the clay as if it wasn't even there. Bad technique would get your sword stuck in the clay halfway in.
Your comparison to machetes is also questionable, because those are in fact not very flexible at all. Which makes sense because it is rather short and meant as a tool for hacking/chopping plants, not a weapon. (perhaps you meant something else?) Can you harm someone with it? Sure. But you can do that with any sharp object. Just because you drew blood doesn't mean you won the fight.
Indeed, better to cut off a finger and maintain a defensive guard rather than go for chopping off an entire arm and get a double in the process.
Wow that were some amazing insights! As I never practiced shinkendo or iaido but did shizan I never made that connection. As if it's necessary to cut your opponent into pieces to win a fight haha. But I easily thought the better I cut, the better I could handle the blade, now painfully learned that obvious mistake. Thanks!
An excellent video and it is great that you have highlighted this important point - retaining the Martial edge and its technique how it should be done and why is more important than mere cutting of the mats. I love watching your videos! Thank you for doing such a great job at it.
"You shouldn't criticize something you have no experience with or cant do" speaks in a lot of dimensions for us people. Even in Martial arts you need to have experience before forming criticizing opinions.
Awesome video! I’ll never approach cutting exercises the same way again. Thank you! 🙏
Thank you Shogo, thank you Seki sensei. Very clear and easy to understand the difference.
These realistic reasons for the methods, and practical application of them, are what make Asayama Ichiden Ryu so mesmerizing.
I have blisters on my feet and hands and my knees are so very sore, and yet I still have to force myself to stop practicing.
Thank you so much for the content!
PLease thank your teacher for sharing his knowledge with us, and thank you for the videos
I always thought mat cutting was a part of training as an Eastern style swordsman, Seki Sensei's breakdown makes perfect sense though! Great video, thank you!
Wow speechless and incredible teaching ,and demonstration
I think this is a very common concept among all the martial arts, either with weapon or not. You should preserve the capability to response with your opponent's movement, not just going all out, in most of the cases. Thanks for Seki sensei's explanation and demostration.
This was super fascinating. Thanks again for the great content. Love this channel.
Thank You so much, Seki Sensei and Shogo-san, for making this video! 👍🏻👏🏻
I actually wish that ALL serious content-providers on this (or any) platform, who upload videos about test-cutting (in relation to martial arts) - or “backyard-cutting” (for fun!), for that matter - would periodically post a disclaimer that clearly states SOMETHING to the effect of: "Cutting objects with a sharp, pointy metal implement does NOT a great Swordsman (or Martial Artist) make!"
This obviously (!) applies also to people who have conditioned their bodies (and minds) to breaking hard materials (bricks, tiles, wooden boards, etc.) with parts of their own body. ‘Iron-body’ training is (likewise) only one aspect of martial arts.
An analogy from my own Scandinavian cultural sphere that would also apply: Just because I am proficient in cutting firewood with a splitting axe, doesn’t automatically imply that I am a skillful, battle axe wielding Viking warrior...
A smart fellow once said (and I’m paraphrasing here): "Remember that a wooden board doesn’t hit back"! 😉
awesome video as always thank you shogo, and seki sensei
I saw the original japanese video few weeks ago and was quite looking for the subtitled version. Thank you.
This is most enlightening!
Naively, on taking up Iaido, I presumed that successful tameshigiri was the pinnacle of achievement in the art, as in my style it is only practised by Shodan and above.
I think that visualising a virtual opponent, his actions and reactions is one of the most difficult aspects of Iaido. (In Mugai Ryu, using Iaito we do not have a partner for kata, except when performing kenjitsu with bokken of course). I can see that lauding the cutting of mats is a hindrance to this, as one's blade swings wide and is no threat to the actions of one's adversary, making one vulnerable to counter moves. We are taught to maintain pressure at all times with the kissaki always threatening the opponent.
I want to hear Seki sensei talk about his daily routine outside of martial arts, and how he implements his self into the martial world.
I understood.
Thanks old man 🙏🏼
This is fascinating. I didn't even know that using this weapon is more focused on just cutting with the tip of the sword. I thought that you had to use the entire blade!
oshiete kurete, arigatou gozaimasu. おしえてくれてありがとうございますよう。
I have played Bujinkan for almost 20 years, Wing Tsun for 5 years, Akuzawa sensei's Aunkai, and some Aikido.
I am happy to see masters like Seki 先生 (sensei - teacher) share their skills. It is really something good. Thank you.
Particularly, I like how Seki sensei shows us how to use the "axis" of the body.
His technique is on point, you can see how engrained in his muscle memory it all is
I love how wholesome Seki Sensei is. I think one thing that test cutting is really good for is training/confirming your edge alignment. Especially with springier blades, if your edge alignment is bad you may even bounce off the target, so it can help revealing flaws in your cuts. But it's certainly good to remind people that it is not the martial art, it is just test cutting.
Finally a masters confirmation of something I have considered from my own observations for years.
Superb content as usual, thank you so much for sharing such important information. These videos are great and will keep this tradition alive for future generations.
The only time we ever did mat cutting at my old school was when the Sensei or one of the senior students got a new sword. This was many years before you could buy mass-produced budget Katana, so they were mostly Gendaito or remounted Gunto, so it was a bit of a special occasion.
The comparison to tile breaking was really helpful!
Thank you for sharing. Much appreciated.
You guys are amazing I have always wanted to learn some of your stile's of fighting.... Awesome just awesome....
This was excellent. A very clear, well-demonstrated compare and contrast discussion of a crucial distinction that can apply to any sword style or tradition, IMHO. Thank you for furthering my education.
Very good. Illuminating .. thanks Shogu and Seki Sensei.
This was illuminating, a great lesson on technique, body mechanics and bad habits. The point was even reinforced by his skill to actually cut the mats, because as he said you have to know how a thing is done to be able to undesterdand its problems
Great skills 🔥🖤✌🏻
Man i wish i could attend weekly classes. I love his teaching style. Ive always thought it would be more effective to cut as hes shown with the tip. Im sure once someone takes one slice they arent going to want another.
This is something i noticed in a lot of martial arts. The combat arts have been largely forgotten in favor of sport. The techniques are different
I truly love this channel-
This was very informative.
I thought a Lord retaining your services and you swearing loyalty made you Samurai. 😅
That being said Shogo and Seki Sensei's willingness to share glimpses into the techniques and history of Japanese warriors always makes my day and speaks to their dedication.
The horizontal cut reminds me of what I was taught when I was learning Toyama Ryu batto-jutsu. One of the kata had the sword leave the scabbard and cut horizontally left to right across the eye level of the opponent, stopping just to the right of their head to keep the tip of the sword on them in case they came back for more. Given that Toyama ryu was meant to train soldiers quickly how to use the sword efficiently it makes sense.
Nakamura sensei was one of the big components of modern tameshigiri, it fits well with toyama ryu kata (a practice I used to train and teach)...
Great information as always!
Love your content brother ❤
thank you Sir repeatedly for your insight in this subjct.
Truly a master, even when he attempts to fail on purpose he's so good he fails to fail
Simply beautiful.
Good content. This is similar to how my school taught me as well: only cut to the point where the tip of the blade exits the opponent's body, and cut with the concept of whip/throw instead of strength.
My basics are from Toyama ryu (original) Morinaga ha, and what i saw in this video is interesting. Exc. Sensei Kinji Nakagawa do katate do/suihei giri (horizontal cut) on bamboo/tatami with clean cut and still stops kissaki towards to the opponent, just like Isao Machi (Shushin ryu). We all follow rule that tip of the blade shoud direct on opponent after cut. I need this side of battojutsu analyze more.
Well, I learned a lot from this video. Thanks!
Beautifully summarised... ❤
Great video, really interesting watching it as a longsword practitioner. We don't really do anything like iado (I've tried it with a longsword, and the long, straight blade doesn't lend itself particularly well to it) but we have borrowed tameshigiri as a way to test the validity of our regular strikes. I've certainly found it to be a useful tool and when I'm practicing at home I usually try to "fence" the mat (in other words, I try to move as if I were facing an armed opponent.) One point I've heard some proponents of test-cutting make is that cutting part way through a mat doesn't really translate to cutting into a person, especially a person wearing clothes, which can be relatively difficult to cut through if you don't have good mechanics.
I think it's a common problem I've thought about: There are certain trainings we refer to as "martial arts" that actually are not meant for fighting. There's just not really a word in the English language for it, and I guess it's the same for Japan.
Would it be possible for Seki sensei to show us how to properly hold the katana? I know styles differ, and I would like to know how he grips his. Like exactly how and where to put your hands on the tsuka. Thank you! Have a great day!
Thank you for the explanation. . In all honesty I was under this impression that the more intense cut was always preferable to get the battle over and done with, but reflecting on what was pointed out that never happens in a real fight. No one gets the fight done in one swing except in the most favorable conditions and unlikely to boot. A flashy one and done strike is impractical to practice to perfection when its more likely to miss like sensei pointed out, though being able to cut well in general is still good to practice all the same. So, in essence, cut well but fight better.
I have always been fascinated with sword forms and techniques, most particularly those of Japanese culture. I love your series and the explanations of the mechanics!
Great advice as always.loce watching your videos.
I would really appreciate you doing a video of self defence using a metal walking stick against an opponent using a sword & knife. Thank you 🇬🇧☸️
very interesting, thanks!
Excellent video, thank you.
I was watching video game reviews and through a series of random video suggestions I end up here.
i'm not disappointed, just surprised.
That was very informative and an awesome display of techniques. I'm a disabled US Marine veteran and would love to practice another discipline. I feel it would help mentally and physically.
The katana has always been my favorite weapon, and the feudal Japan Era was always most interesting to me. I love the architecture and apparel.
How do I begin my journey in practicing Tameshigiri?
The American Bladesmith Society requires cutting 2x4s and free-hanging rope, and I've noticed the skills it takes to perform those cuts probably wouldn't directly translate to a combat situation.
very spot on observation.
Just imagine that semi-cut mat is you're opponent's throat. You didn't make an overexagerrated (= telegraphed) huge swipe so your blade tip is immediately pointing at them right after the cut (zanshin) because you were able to quickly recover it. And you're enemy, having his carotid artery or/and jugular vein cut - is squirting blood like a geiser - he's literally walking dead and will be literally dead within a minute. You don't have to behead your opponent, de-limb them or even kill them to win the fight. What you do need, however - if you want to survive, is to be prepared to parry or do a follow-up cut in case you miss or something other goes wrong - but that's only possible if you're cutting like a kenjutsu-ka, not like a tameshigiri-ka.
I must admit when I discover these incorrect systems it makes me feel that the systems we learn in US are somewhat money makers only. I enjoy the sword and I find you also must know the language. I was taught that the movement before sheathing was to remove the blood from your sword only to discover it was a decorative method before the emperor. Like breaking boards, concrete slabs, punching and kicking trees in Martial arts is also things never practiced in the Asian countries during the early historic times. I so do enjoy those who are authentic. I thank both you and Sensei for delivering truth. It is such a breath of fresh air to realize that you both follow the true way. Again much appreciated.
I spent 4 years practicing AIkido and was working in a kitchen at the same time. I would argue that I learned half of what I learned about AIkido in that kitchen. This was because I learned how to properly use a knife and I also learned that AIkido used cutting techniques but without a blade.
Now, I'm an American and I presume that my Aikido dojo wasn't likely to mention things such as actual cutting practice but I never woudl have seen the link between aikido and cutting if I had not done cooking and Aikido at the same time for so long.
Let me be more specific. A cut is purely applied friction. A cut does not need to be focused like how a blade cuts.
For example, a river can cut a valley out of a mountain over many years. I could, "cut," my way through a wooden table using enough sandpaper.
A blade focuses a cut, which makes it more efficient and quick but a blade is not required to cut.
All that is required is constant application of friction.
A real cut should feel like a match being struck against a match box. You should be dragging the blade along your target, even if done quickly and cleanly the friction itself is what is doing the cutting.
Aikido too requires friction to work. Many aikido techniques bleed and steel momentum from their opponents by making contact with their opponent and letting their opponent move the Aikidoka with their own momentum. Think of it like one gear moving another gear. It is precisely this subtle control of friction that gives an Aikidoa control over the fight.
An Aikidoka uses subtle friction to slow down an opponent just like how breaks use friction to slow down and gain control of a vehicle. Proper Aikido technique is like slowing to a comfortable stop. However Aikido done more quickly can look like a person slamming on the breaks.
So while I'll 100% agree that learning how to cut is just that, I do believe that not knowing how to cut will prevent a student from ever getting past introductory levels of technique.
Bruce Lee famously put it very well: "Boards don't hit back"
that explained a lot. sensei is an impressive guy.
I guess yeah.
In boxing It's like training "bad technique" using massive wild swings at a punching bag because it looks cooler when the bag is swinging everywhere instead of training more fast, less telegraphed strikes.
This is such a good point. HEMA test cutting folks take notes!
What Seki Sensei is saying all aligns with HEMA principles as well. "Tool" use vs using the sword as a weapon are two related yet mostly different things. It's like a Venn diagram with only 20% of Tool vs. Weapon overlapping.
I would love to see some full speed sparring to see how a master reacts to things not going acording to plan and adjusting.