Beyond Order: Montreal Lecture | Jonathan Pageau | EP 262
Вставка
- Опубліковано 14 тра 2024
- We had the honor of having our dear friend Jonathan Pageau host this Beyond Order lecture in Montreal on May 23rd, 2022. Jonathan opens the show by describing how he first heard (and subsequently met) Jordan. This event, then, serves as a continuation of the conversations they first had. Throughout this hour-and-a-half-long event, Dr. Peterson and Jonathan Pageau discuss perception, symbolism, values, and the relationship between perception and the cognitive scientist’s attempts to understand consciousness.
-Links-
Check out Jonathan Pageau’s UA-cam channel:
/ @jonathanpageau
Websites:
thesymbolicworld.com (speaking)
pageaucarvings.com (carving)
orthodoxartsjournal.org (writing)
-Chapters-
0:00 - Intro
4:55 - Dr. Peterson enters the stage
8:00 - Perception, Cognitive Science, and the problem of bodyless AI
11:30 - The visual cliff experiment & perceiving the world
18:30 - The awe of infinity & complexity of the Heavens
21:00 - Awe, imitation, & why humans celebrate
28:00 - The role of sacrifice & delaying gratification
32:00 - Egyptian gods & ancient symbolism
36:00 - Pyramids vs. mountains in The Bible
44:00 - The cost of not aiming properly
52:30 - Bottom-up vs. top-down conceptualizations of the world
57:00 - Sam Harris
1:05:00 - Why the Diversity, Inclusivity, and Equity types are taking on STEM
1:10:00 - Is it possible to create values from scratch? Nietzsche, Freud, & Jung
1:16:00 - Why go to church?
1:22:00 - Q&A
// SUPPORT THIS CHANNEL //
Newsletter: mailchi.mp/jordanbpeterson.co...
Donations: jordanbpeterson.com/donate
// COURSES //
Discovering Personality: jordanbpeterson.com/personality
Self Authoring Suite: selfauthoring.com
Understand Myself (personality test): understandmyself.com
// BOOKS //
Beyond Order: 12 More Rules for Life: jordanbpeterson.com/Beyond-Order
12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos: jordanbpeterson.com/12-rules-...
Maps of Meaning: The Architecture of Belief: jordanbpeterson.com/maps-of-m...
// LINKS //
Website: jordanbpeterson.com
Events: jordanbpeterson.com/events
Blog: jordanbpeterson.com/blog
Podcast: jordanbpeterson.com/podcast
// SOCIAL //
Twitter: / jordanbpeterson
Instagram: / jordan.b.peterson
Facebook: / drjordanpeterson
Telegram: t.me/DrJordanPeterson
All socials: linktr.ee/drjordanbpeterson
#Perception #BeyondOrder #JonathanPageau #Symbolism #Values #SamHarris #JordanPeterson #JordanBPeterson #DrJordanPeterson #DrJordanBPeterson #DailyWirePlus #podcast #montreal #psychology
Jordan hasn't sounded this good for ages. Clear minded, steady, focused. It's so wonderful to see.
...did he always do the crazy hand thing though? Lol he's awesome
If this is his good sound.... he must have really been over the edge ages before.
Yes, his mental health has improved a lot ever since he got off of the benzos and went through that whole process. That is a process that would destroy most people's lives but Jordan is a strong person, and he got through it. It gives me hope because I am currently struggling with drugs, not the same situation as Jordan but it gives me hope knowing people can overcome and defeat drug dependence.
@@redsox258 you can win brother. I pray that you call on Jesus Christ to heal and rid you of addiction like he did for me. Relieving me of the cravings and even the people and places. I’m now 3 years clean and have faith it will happen for you too. And I say happen to you because once you let Christ start to work on you, every day is better than the one before. It starts with admission, and you’ve already done that.
Don’t be afraid of aa or na, take what you need and leave the rest. And for the love of God PRAY YOUR FACE OFF! The Lords says you have not because you ask not. Ask and you shall receive if only you believe. God bless you brother! Good things on the horizon for you. Keep your chin up, a stiff lip and suck in that gut and put your shoulders back and make your bed and take on today. Just today. Much love.
@@dn1697 boooo
Dr Peterson, thank you very much. I’ve got my life back on track because of you. I was a homeless drug addict and alcohol with mental health problems. I have now managed to live a peaceful and productive life. It’s not perfect, I live in a caravan and I do a menial job. As a result of listening to you and reading your books, I now have goals, and a future, and I do t want to die anymore. In my world that’s a success. God bless you sir.
Oh wow, Congratulations on getting your life back on Track. I'm so pleased for you even though I do not know you , but anyone who works so hard to overcome their demons and is successful deserves all blessings coming their way . I'm very proud of you !!!!❤️
Good job
Blessed be you
I learned the most in life working menial jobs. Be proud of yourself!
@@ohioplayer-bl9em Bravo Ohio Player!
Walks the stage before sitting down, getting a good look at the crowd. A legend is among us.
I noticed that, too. He’s always the professor, connecting with his “students.”
Amongus
I am a Woman , mother grandmother and its just blow my mind his wisdom in all sense, I have a enormous gratitude for having him for guide the new generation that so much need him . Thank you god for giving us people as these two great men . ❤️😇
I cant say I'm any of those 3 but I'm still with you on that
(Nitpick but you should probably capitalize the G)
@@kellythrash3154 ??? “The return of masculinity, as evidenced by Dr. Peterson”? Seriously? This goof-ball has been on the verge of a full-blown mental break-down for many years. Possibly his entire life. If you ‘ve learned “anything” from listening to him then you must be a real tool!
I don't give a shit what self assigned category you belong to: Are you competant?
@@filler7149
00
Z.ppl pp lol ppp pp 'll
Well said. We all agree.
Thank you Dr. Peterson. I am coming up on 4 years sober thanks to your books and lectures. You helped save my life. God bless you.
Godbless trying myself
Congrats my friend, keep it up!
Akira the Don has mapped beats and music to Jordan’s speech. I recommend his music, Meaning Wave. “He’s got clout.” - Peterson about Akira the Don
God bless you. My husband just celebrated 33 years clean and sober. We met very young and went through so many trials together. I'm so proud of the man he has become. It has been an honor to share my life with him. I pray the best for you and may God watch over you.
Be sure to celebrate your Four years sobriety with the community. Others will be helped and encouraged by your doing so. JBP is a great gift for many of us. Congratulations on your sobriety.
Hello Dr. Peterson 👋😊 Just wanted to repeat (as many others have) that your work has helped so many of us, myself included. Your biblical series was a godsend. After a lifetime of intractable depression I've finally found peace; for that I will always be grateful to you for pointing me in the right direction.
It might sound silly since most of us fans don't know you personally but many of us keep you in our prayers. And although you might not know it sometimes, especially when the twitter roaches come out in force against you, you have a multitude of grateful people behind you actively trying to better themselves and the world.
I look forward to hearing you speak in November. Thank you and God bless you.
Edit (12/19/22, after attending his lecture): I am still very grateful for all of the invaluable help I received from Dr. Peterson. That won't change. If you are religious, please pray for this man.
Would like to talk to Jordan about the other perspectives of Cain and Abel...maybe one day...ps Jordan if you ever read feel free to reply..thank you.
@@stephenmarshall8367 I highly doubt if a public figure as big as JBP will ever reply to a UA-cam Google account created 6 months ago with no DP which has zero subscribers and zero engagement. Maybe if you had tried to write this message from your authentic account, it would have had better chances of gaining someone's attention and taking you seriously. But, who knows, maybe you'll get a reply. I'm just trying to point you to the right direction if you are genuinely interested in talking to an influential figure who has 5 million followers on UA-cam.
Here and present 🤚 doing the same
ABSOLUTELY 💯 % ... MY SENTIMENTS ..... NAMASTE ... 🙏 👋
I would say the same, he's the father figure that I needed, I'm forever grateful to him, I wouldn't be in a better and hopeful place without him.
I have 9 month old boy/girl twin grand babies.🥰🥰😇😇
What a joy life is going to be watching these little gifts grow into adults.🙏
The lucidity of Jordan’s perspectives is always refreshing. Not to mention the honesty. Thanks.
Honesty, yes. Something that lacks many nowadays.
@@selfelements8037 and a lot better now but I'm back 🔙🔙
Yes👍🏼
If the Constitution, our Supreme Law, is the standard for what they are allowed to do and nothing more unless the states approve an amendment, why is it that we have the problems we do? Is it not the natural tendency of government to grow that is to blame? Since history and logic tell us that is true, is it not WE the PEOPLE (every generation since it's founding) that or to blame having allowed it to happen? Of course we have been and still are being infiltrated, in various forms, by "foreign ideologies" - people and groups that DON'T AGREE with, nor honor or respect, the words and spirit of our founders. Some do so on purpose! Others by ignorance. Naivety's mother is ignorance. Think about it.
Question: How can any population or society that does not dedicate itself to the preservation of freedom and the honoring of every individual's inalienable rights exist for long?
If the essence of freedom is the limitation on the power and reach of government and our government today seems to no longer have such limits, is it not logical therefore to conclude that freedom will gradually go by the boards?
Isn't an informed populace the best condition to have if we ever hope to put tyranny back in its bottle? Aren't the things that we are experiencing today born of the subversive idea that we are a democracy? If ignorant and free can never be, then how should you and I expect the land of the free and the home of the brave to exist in a sea of ignorance? If ignorance is at the core of what is responsible for our decline, does it not seem appropriate then that devotion oneself to pursue the required knowledge to remain free is of utmost importance?
I feel that his greatest gift is not in his thinkung, although that is a great gift indeed. But even more it is his ability to communicate his thoughts through words into our brains. Language may be the closest thing we have to genuine magic.
Thank God for JBP.
I can only imagine the benefits of his insight as a person in their early 20s.
As a man in his early 50s,
all I can say is;
Better late than never!
As someone who listened to him throughout my twenties, I’ve been around long enough to see him lose a few steps and see where he’s lacking.
Eventually if done right, you surpass all of the people you once looked up to. And that is how it should be if you’re really working to reach your full potential.
That said, I still love the man. And I can still learn a lot from him. But we are all only human stuck in the same world.
As someone who at his mid 20's. I can assure you that, there is not much different between you and me in how we percieve what jbp said. Let me put it like this. young people want to have experience but their ignorance hinder them so they wasting time, old people are wise enough to know the right things to do correctly but they lacking time. Its obvious right? And not all young people will do what you expect them to do with what jbp said. So yeah rest assured enjoy your 50's.
You can be sure that we're listening, getting educated & getting ready. I'm 28.
With Love, from Slovenia
His college course lectures are legitimately giving me better therapy than I've ever had in 15 years.
70 here and still learning. Learning is the best way to travel. Dr. Peterson adds so much to the journey.
I’m 22 and Jordan along with David goggins has helped me understand the importance of striving to be better and the importance in aiming at a higher aim then where you’re at right now. They both pulled me out of a very bad mindset and depression when I was 20 and ever since I’ve been working on myself and I’ve seen a compete 180 in my relationships and outlook towards the world!
Well, if you already understand that at 22 you're way ahead of the game. 😃 I had no idea until my mid 30s
Can’t hurt me was so so good! He’s amazing
Goggins is an amoral shill for the war machine.
I'm 19 and I really wish to see a brighter future for myself but it's been hard...
@@Lyonessi you can do it man, you’re still have so much of your life ahead of you. Just because you might not like where you are now, doesn’t mean that’s where you’ll be in a year from now.
Dr. Peterson, there are countless millions praying for you daily!
"In order to protect the vulnerable from evil, you have to be oriented to the highest that the cosmos has to offer"
What a beautiful ideal, and what a damning condemnation of those that claim to protect the weak without orienting to the highest (lgbt/blm/etc)
knocked it out of the park!
Yes, Chris C! Yes,Yes,Yes!
Yes Chris C! Yes, Yes,Yes!
I can't stop smiling watching and listening to this. Thank God for these two men. They are weaving together a unified vision of science and religion that our world needs desperately right now to avoid the abyss.
well theyre really not supposed to be enemies. both sides can get dogmatic to be fair.
I had exactly the same thoughts :)
And I want us all to avoid the abyss with all my heart.☺️
Sorry Brian, but if you believe these two idiots are a gift of God... you haven't avoided the void, you are already in it. "Jordan Peterson's popularity is the sign of a deeply impoverished political and intellectual landscape..." You poor soul.
@@tadflinder831 - “Sides” are an illusion. The only thing that matters is what is factual and mythology isn’t fact based. Science isn’t a “side”, it is the best methodology we have to make predictions, discoveries, and to seek the truth. Religion is none of those things, yet it makes extraordinary claims.
What a grand human, he restores a little hope in humanity every time I listen to his lectures. Love you Jordan!
greetings fellow non alien
Explain how? Because it's not working for me.
He is not God.
@@MrSmcara Speaking for myself, JP represents what intellectuals ought to be. He is humble, wise, brilliant, and honest. He became, basically the most influential thinker of our time. This gives me some hope in humanity.
Being there was a real treat.
Running into friends at the show you had no clue also liked his work was the cherry on top.
Thank you!
That is awesome. I have shared his video lectures with many people. I hope those also share.
Any chance you heard what the guy in the audience said at the end?
@@TheAntwain143 Ah I vaguely remember but he wanted to ask another question I think and they made it clear they would only take a finite amount.
I forget if it's this guy, but someone asked something out loud and when he said 'I can't sorry' he yelled back 'I completely understand'.
Great night.
How cool that a conversation like this is popular. Genuine, Genius, Gentleman talking about our God and the meaning of our individual lives. Wherever you are in your belief and more importantly your faith (focus + action), this is the conversation that cannot be easily dismissed by any real thinker. Let’s save western society together by participating in this conversation in a real way in our lives.
I've a question for perhaps yourself or basically anyone in 'the know' here. It says there is 1 (one) reply - it says there is and it's in blue brw. I can't see it. Why ? Sometimes there are many replies and sometimes the actual number shewn is one or more higher than I actually can see. Thanks in advance for your time.
Gs recognize Gs.
@@sextwister Thanks my g. Appreciate ya.
@@richardpotter6313 honestly I think it has to do with UA-cam. Technically those replies are there but I think UA-cam hides replies they don't like.
@@okami425 That's also a good possibility. The way al and his gorythms have progressed it could even be certain demographic groups, like kind people of different views ...such as L/R or perhaps one person in a collective was reported on by someone from another, one had previously hit a thumbs down or better yet YT trying to thwart something positive and placing a vale over an admirer. Who knows in this day and age with all the decay and funky s*** going on with the set RE in its previously pre planned infancy. Thanks 👍
Pageau is one of the greats. I am glad he is getting some real attention beyond the orthodox Christian audience.. I didn't become orthodox because of him but he really helped me understand Christianity in a way that most westerners will never understand. When you open your eyes to the symbolic world it becomes very hard not change the way you live.
Yup!
same here. grew up protestant, baptist in particular. still trying to learn and grasp this stuff, but such a different way of looking at the world, it blows me away.
@@davidcole1475 He seems to have a very deep understanding from all I've heard. He takes it really deep. I remember coming home from college one summer and talking to my dad, an evangelical pastor, telling him that these things going on in humans was all just chemical and biological and that there was no God, no Devil, etc. I thought I had a real gotcha point. He said something like "well yeah, that's how our bodies work as designed. We're embodied in physical, material world." Observing what's going on physiologically while also examining the stories themselves and their meaning, showing how Christianity can be "true" even the "the truest thing" is not a lack of understanding of covenant. He talks about Israel meaning to struggle with God and talks about attention and aim. These things are related to covenant and I imagine that if you were to bring up your understanding of covenant he could go there with you.
@@davidcole1475 Well, there is God or there isn't. It's as simple as that. Another thing: we can prove none of those options. But scriptures have been written down by some people in different times having their reason to make them as it wasn't cheap and required educated people to participate. Some people organization that lasts until now, The Church, created the canon we can today call The Bible that is just a set of some stories, often written down very late after happened or there may be some myths or legends that have been created in some purposes and that is real. The real thing is that what we know today as Decalogue some description of laws without actual ten words they supposed to be. And we know the story of Adam and Eve that has been written down probably on the way through the desert people of Israel had led by Moses to The Promised Land, as we have to imagine what problems might have arose on the way of so many people used to live as slaves in pagan kingdom. That doesn't mean those stories are fully made up. Who knows, they might have been preserved some way for thousands of years until that moment on the desert without a slightest of changes, but highly unlikely. Therefore may exist as many interpretations that may be seen valid (not proven invalid) without contradiction to others, that's ok. That's what St. Augustine have said about that.
Jordan Peterson is sincere. He can't prove neither literate accuracy of scriptures having real historical values nor the existence of the God revealed in those scriptures. He has no ambition to claim he can living 2k years after the last sentences we can read from The Bible made by people of The Church. He's a philosopher and psychologist scholar that can draw a great even religious value from The Bible, but as a consequence of Scholastics made by St. Thomas Aquinas, understanding a world of creation and understanding The Creator are completely separate areas that should not be messed with each other.
@@davidcole1475 You have clearly a problem with logical thinking. Every statement is either true or false. You say it is highly probable God exist because whatever you observe makes sense as long as it has been created by intelligence. I agree as for me this also makes sense, although till Jesus Christ and His Church there was only one known person who got that without revelation and has been sentenced to death because of it making him first christian martyr more than 3 centuries before Christ. So there is a great proof that one's observation doesn't implify the correct interpretation. Although we can assume something exists in one and only way, even nowadays quantum physics can say that only when observed and therefore interpreted, but until the observation it may be in many ways. That proofs only one thing: that every reasonable conscience can absorb only determined information.
The rest about The Church you wrote just say you're a protestant. You claim there is only one valid interpretation although the whole protestant thing is about rejecting the authority to interpret, therefore multiplying interpretations. It just proofs you truly have a problem with logical thinking. No protestant would get his hands on a book called The Bible in either XVIth or XXIst century if The Church wouldn't claimed the canon of holy scriptures back in IVth century. The Church has been established by the Apostles that we chose to believe their teaching come directly from God.
I didn't write of various interpretations contradictory to each other. I mentioned (after St. Augustine) about geting different observation and therefore different meaning, but it is what you will get if for example you'd listen to several separate men descriptions of a single woman. Some will say about her hips, others legs and others about her eyes or hairs. All of them would be true (although quite subjective) and not contradicting with other intepretations. What can be different and contradicting are judgmental issues. That's why The Church needs to have an authority to correct Her sheeps.
I wrote about myths and legends in reference to what we call (ones again - the canon) 'The Old Testament' or what Jews call 'Tora'. There were 3 or 4 traditions known in Israel of those stories that have been put into book of Genesis (Tora overall, but b. of Genesis had more major differences). Those stories has been kept for God knows how long in some environments we can now distinguish as different traditional sources.
I didn't say that about the 'New Testament', although there are differences in the Gospel written by different authors in different time after a long time The Church has been teaching about Jesus and His Kingdom. The targeted audience was also different. No wonder there were differences in the scriptures. Anyway, people may have a resonable doubts about them being correct description of what have happened in times of Jesus.
I love reading all of the comments/testimonials when Dr J.P. Puts out content. God must be pleased with all the love J.P. has helped manifest in the world.
JP doesn't believe in God. Don't you listen to what he says.
@@redmed10 Not the literal biblical God, no he doesnt. He believes in the abstract biblical God though.
@@mrlacksoriginality4877
That means nothing. As does so much of what Peterson says. But people like you fall for everything he says and think he is the wisest man on earth.
@@redmed10 Only because the bible falls flat when it comes to the literal interpretation when it comes to reality. I spent years trying to defend the literal truth using all the mental gymnastics i could to defend my point of view.
The straw on the camels back for me is that my Jewish history teacher told me that they never took the bible literally, it all made sense and took me years to get over.
@@mrlacksoriginality4877
The very fact that Christians believe in the old testament and new testament was one of the first indicators to me that this God stuff I was taught as a child did not make as much sense as was made out. If JP helps you then great. I'm not in the habit of trying to change peoples' minds. I just put an alternative when I think it's needed. I'm learning it's a pointless exercise because one voice is not much. Take care.
I listen to this while I work on my art, and it's like it makes my art better. What an incredible mind.
Man! I was just thinking to go do some painting and listen to this. Your comment solidified it
just looked at your channel, nice art :)
@@spadegarden8572 thanks so much!
Me clapping my hands in my computer chair when Jordan Peterson is called to the stage👏
I had the privilege to be in the audience that day. I am now able to listen as much as I want. Thank you for uploading! 🤩
That makes 2 of us!
@@billyp79 Hello Billy! I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did.
What venue was it?
@@stevenlightfoot6479 place des arts
Likewise! I'm so excited that this was recorded.
I've watched Dr. Peterson for many years now and every time I come back to his lectures and ideas it astonishes me how on point he is. He's one of the few people that really understands reality in my opinion.
This is what the internet should be all about. Freedom of information.
Just bought Beyond Order and all three volumes of the Gulag Archipelago. Jordan Peterson has taught us more about being a mature adult than most people have dreamed to learn in school.
You are in for a lot of eye opening reading. Solzhenitsyn is a historian, but also a philosopher. "Gulag Archipelago" is the only book I ever read where I stopped and wrote down quotations from it.
School is not for teaching it's for indoctrination! Think about it!
Also buying those books after listening to the audio books.
Awesome 👏
@@chriswhite2151 especially the last few lines on the last page, gave me goosebumps
Absolutely… without maturity we will not evolve individually or has a society 🙏
Peterson and Pageau.. my two favourite online humans. Bliss
What about your favorite online lizard
@@JamecBond 🤔 Peterson-asaurus and Pageau-ceratops?
He is getting more of a warrior feeling to him which makes me glad
Yeah … check out his latest vid on liars and psychopaths etc. Not holding back anymore ..!
@@justiceisnow3162 He's released and is successfully battling his inner monster. Just banned from Twitter for it - go JP!
In this little corner of the internet, I have found the best people in the world. It's you all of you, here, drinking from this deep well of wisdom and sharing your thoughts with the community. You have, once again, brightened my fading hope. Thank you and God bless you and yours.
Jordan has been giving my thoughts words for so many years, and I feel blessed to be able to listen.🇨🇦
The very first time I saw one of Jordan’s UA-cams, I said, who is that man? Now, I know who he is, a beautiful, brave, genuine and loving human. He thinks and expresses the truth out loud and has no fear engaging in meaningful dialogue. He so graciously shares his knowledge and lovingkindness to others. I absolutely respect, love and admire him. ✝️❤️ Interpretation of our perception is based on our personal/individual experience. Since everyone and everything is intertwined, the universe harmoniously sends us signs/signals/symbolic daily maps to guide us into what truly matters. But it’s up to the individual to make a conscious choice based on free will. Even though many times we make painful life regretting mistakes, that’s the beauty of growth/change. It’s how truth sets us free and molds us into the most beautiful versions of ourselves. At the end of the day, we all seek redemption along w/courage to seek and conquer new adventures. That’s the ecstasy of life. We’re not just mindless beings floating around the ether. ✝️❤️
I absolutely love your comment.
@@delphisquirrel2430 Thank you ✝️🙏🏻
I'm going to see him in Glasgow on his tour in September, I'll be sitting in the very back row. Should I wear a suit?
Free will is most egotistical and poorly evidenced idea polluting otherwise sophisticated minds
Don’t send a purple cross. Purple is the color of the devil
Man I just can't keep up, each video he releases I want to listen to 10 times over to fully understand and absorb the truths he is illuminating for us all to see. My life has changed from finding the next moment of happiness, to discovering the truths and meanings behind life, which I feel is so much more fulfilling to me
Noah, Peterson would say that you will survive the Flood. God Bless, Bucko! 🖖🏿🙏🏿🤙🏿!!!
Me too!
Did you find his biblical lectures.
I used to be so dismissive of biblical philosophy till I saw those.
He opened a new world of interesting meaningful concepts for me with them.
@@Nobnoxious I did, I grew up religious and when I saw those lectures ironically for me I saw the secular point of view to those passages in the bible, I'm currently trying to read the Bible from that point of view and am getting so much out of it!
Just listen at half speed
Jordan, Jonathan, God be with you both, and thank you so much 🤗❤️
I love Jordan Peterson lectures. They are all so capturing, fascinating, informative, educational and never ever boring.
In this society with kids, like myself growing up with no father and learning to grasp the meaning of what it means to be masculine and how to own it. I’m thankful we get this father figure, in Jordan Peterson.
He is teaching me about so many valuable attributes to add to my mind and then develop them as a habit. It’s tough to do the right thing all the time because of this mind of mine but grateful for his presence in this world, a world that endorses lust first in this world of ours
Beautiful
Dope and astounding words 🤗
Good job for 1) actually seeking out a man like Peterson, and 2) pursuing the truth and actually taking responsibility for yourself. You will be a excellent role model for other lost young men( and women). There are many…
Absolutely brother! In Wild At Heart, John Eldredge writes that masculinity, manhood, is bestowed by the society's men on the adolescents. Jordan is a great father figure, we need more calm, sincere and articulate voices of wisdom. Keep rocking, Jordan!
Amen 🙏 so glad you are making progress. I am much older than you and I can tell you by experience you are on the right path. God bless you ✝️
Your best conversation partner in my opinion.
Camille Paglia tho?
Yes absolutely yes. I wasn't about to watch this now but when I saw the host I'm like ok bye plans of going to sleep
Iain McGilchrist wasn't bad!
Godspeed to all who put this together and all who attended!!! Science reasoning and compassion for the win!!!
I myself am an atheist and very much love Harris' and Dawkins' work. I've been completely immersed in Dr. Peterson's work since the events of bill c16 and have never looked back. Although I can't simply believe in the traditional god, as it does come into conflict with my rational beliefs, I've very much turned around on my position that the fundamental concept of god and the meaning found in religion can be replaced. This was a brilliant lecture on that very topic and was much appreciated. Thank you Dr. Peterson and Jonathan Pageau for all your work.
You're almost there, then. Belief in God is not about surrendering your belief in reason. Instead there are spiritual forces in this world that work very hard to keep things out of your mind, (Dr. Peterson has much to say they would rather you not hear) especially anything that encourages you to think about realities you cannot see or touch. Materialism, measurement and empirical method are quite often championed as the ultimate author of truth, but the diehard materialist runs into a very serious problem when it comes to certain universal human experiences such as envy, greed, pride and so on. Coming to have a relationship with Jesus Christ begins with examining your own self, not the measurable world around you. It's about acknowledging those sinful parts of your own nature, and in the knowledge you are guilty of sin, desiring to "aim up" with the realization that you are utterly incapable of doing that on your own. That is the essence of salvation, and what I have personally experienced, and can say to you with 100% honesty that God is there and that your reason will be edified, not destroyed, by His presence in your life.
This ongoing conversation had by Dr. JBP, Pageau, Vervaeke, Bishop Barron is one that can be seen as the present moment on the 700+ years debate of realism v nominalism. In an age where nominalism appears to be at its pinnacle as the un-examined dominate underpinning of all modern philosophy, I am heartened that Dr. JPB and the cog sci types are imploding that worldview to pieces. I've personally found that a deep respect for sacred transcendence re-enchants the world in a more sane balance of subjective instances and the objective universals while simultaneously dis-enchanting the poisonous spell we live under of relativism and materialism.
Thank you Dr. Peterson
Indeed! Ear Candy. Can’t get enough!
Add Paul Vanderclay, Fr. Stephen De Young, Richard Roblin, Fr. Andrew Damick.
The what now? Thank God JBP doesn't talk like this.
"Saying what I was already thinking." YES! Only has says it much or carefully and accurately than I ever cold! When I was young and I came to the place where I questioned my "FAITH" as I was taught I had to do one of two things. One give it up or two try to figure out the "truth" within my faith. I went deeper and Jordan Peterson and Joseph Campbell and Alan Watts all help be grow deeper and understand my young faith better. They made my life richer. For those of you who may be threatened by what Dr. Peterson says- fear not. Just dig a little deeper for the "Kingdom of God is within you."
Yes, we don't need to be afraid of his interpretation. You can actually watch Jordan's faith grow over the years as he dove deeper into it. He's doing a great service to God by opening Scriptures to those who don't see their value. He has been doing God's work even when he didn't realize it.
As a programmer I can definitely see the world as objects lol Peterson your mind is just brilliant. Salute good sir
Your object oriented in life 😉
Just love, when brains and heart connect!
This is definitely my favorite format for these lectures. Intensely engaging. And Jonathan is wonderful.
I had the pleasure of seeing him in Ljubljana just a couple days ago. It was nothing short of fantastic all the way through.
The entire hall, easily several thousand in number, sang him Happy Birthday to start, and gave a standing ovation by the end; to a genuinely heartfelt human that came to give a lecture.
Mr. Peterson, I hope you come back some day.
I just love the sense of humor that spices this blend! Love Jonathan's laughter
you get Peterson and Pageau in the same room, ill listen all day
This guy is a Canadian national treasure.
Just don't steal him, okay? :)
World national treasure too lol
World treasure
Both of them
@@Built_By_Bacon That's fine, we don't mind sharing him😊
So glad you two are talking together. You men helped so many of us trudge out of the swamp of nihilism and start to believe in things again and appreciate that things actually do have meaning. Love you both.
Such a refreshing discourse thankyou!
A breath of fresh air for the soul.
I have the idea that a majority of people will think that Jordon is the star of this amazing conversation however Jonathan is the exact examplear of what the Christian life is about, tolerance, forgiveness and the beauty of this world,
This is literally such a good conversation.
It just warms my heart when I see such an outpouring of love for you, Dr. Peterson. You are so loved and respected. Also, you're a total bad-ass! ;) The world is a better place with you in it. This was, yet another, wonderful conversation and thank you for all that you do.
Have your cult membership certificate? Always amazes me how the language of Peterson's disciples so closely parallels that of evangelical Christian talking about Jesus...
@@DocnoXXX is anyone who listens to someone else a cult follower? I see this comment so often I have to ask.
@@wobblyeye493 It's not about simply listening... It's the expression of "love" and the religious devotion... "he loves much and he's loved in return"... As evangelicals would describe their 'relationship' with Jesus. Once there is so much emotion involved, you are crossing into cult territory
@@ruthanne6729 You probably don't know what a cult is either since there is debate on the term. But Petersen's devotees certainly display some of the behaviors of cult members... and that was my point. But you knew that and tried a diversion (like cult members do)
"Evidence you might be in a Cult: Your group has one leader - usually male. You revere this leader and do what he tells you. Your group has the answers while nobody else does. And you actively deny that your group is a Cult." Neil deGrasse Tyson
@@ruthanne6729 "Evidence you might be in a Cult: Your group has one leader - usually male. You revere this leader and do what he tells you. Your group has the answers while nobody else does. And you actively deny that your group is a Cult." Neil deGrasse Tyson :-)
This is so so important to FULLY listen to and give your 100% attention too. It may even be a good idea to pause and reflect after each part because he will tie them into each other and loop back to each idea like the professional he is. So beautiful. Thank you JP.
Honestly I can't listen to these videos all at once. It sometimes takes a week of listening, then thinking. Listening to the whole thing at once would be like eating a whole cheesecake!
Those two guys are like a musical duet; two strong voices playing with each other and making beautiful sounds. Pageau and JBP are friends and powerhouses in their own right. It was great watching this.
Jordan is the teacher, friend ship has nothing to do with it.
Glad to see you back doc! You changed my life years ago, thank you! Please dont stop, we always got your back!
Jordan. Sharing your thoughts and knowledge is such a valuable and tremendous gift to us all. Thank you.
~ 1:04:00 I had stopped before Jordan went into it but thought of the exact example of how much compassion do you show versus how much do you reprimand them for their behavior and tell them to be better. Glad to hear it’s like that for all of us
Yes, Jordan, the world has turned upside-down. I would never have imagined this even 10 years ago.
Big up Jordan!!! May what is highest guide you in guiding us.
Both of these men have been instrumental in my life. We are blessed to be able to listen to conversations like this.
My goodness Dr. Peterson! You are so magnificent! This presentation has left me speechless. Thank you to the both of you for donating your wisdom. It is so necessary in the times we are living in. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. 🙏
He/they’re not just donating, they expect us to get better & reach higher to a greater form of being … cause we can.
I'm so uplifted by these discussions. Jonathan is right about how Dr. Peterson is able to give voice to something I believe, but is just outside my ability to verbalize. I'm not beyond paraphrasing what he says (as well as directly quoting him) in my own social media. The reception when Jonathan introduces Dr. Peterson almost made me cry. Their reception is precisely how I feel about him.
I was so happy to be part of the audience,it was amazing.
Where was the venue?! Thanks
@@a.nefertiti6980 it was at the théatre maisonneuve
Francis Plante Thanks. I wish I had heard about the event.
I Always have to Expand my thinking when I listen to Dr. Peterson. A True Gift to Experience. THANK YOU 😊
The world dumbs down everything we hear and read. It's so refreshing to listen to someone like JP who speaks to us assuming intelligence and a decent vocabulary and comprehension
I'm new to Jonathan, but he's a brilliant thinker and a perfect play pal for Jordan's sandbox
Yes you are correct Dave was as well. A generation behind him .
This was brilliant, it just got better and better as it went. By the time of the Q&A JBP was fully in his stride and the crowd were right there with him.
God I love that man and his mind and spirit. I feel like I can really breath after listening to him. He creates a calmness in the soul.
Enlightenment is an amazing experience. The person takes the step, but thereafter the teacher teaches them how to walk. Meaning, people who are not ready for the things Mr Peterson says, will not hear his words for the truths that they are. But for those who have made that first step, they will have the se experience the guy had while driving his car; yelling and motioning in excitement because they know they have the teacher: the fully enlightened one.
Jordan didnt teach Jonathan. Jonathan showed Jordan the symbolic world.
We all learn differently and at different rates but that's the plan right?
Jonathan helped Jordan appreciate what he couldn’t understand before. I hope he’s getting closer to God. What an impact he could have for the Kingdom.
Thank you Dr. Peterson. You turned me into a believer, of the importance of psychology. I didn’t really believe in psychology until I started listening to your lectures.
I have listened to so many prof. JD's videos that now it just the same as every Sunday's preaching session, but I still and will do it again and again to make sure that I'm aways on the right path. Thank you, Professor Peterson.
As always, fantastic talk. I could listen to Jordan for days. Two wonderful gentlemen right here. Thank you.
I was here in montreal JBP tour. it was amazing to finally meet my idol and pick up his brains. Glad that JBP decided to put this show online so I can watch it all over again. Thanks JBP for being a role model to me and millions of men!
Its jBp 😅
Jordan, Dr Peterson
JBP
Incredibly fascinating and inspiring human being ❤️
What a gift to have one of the greats recorded in such a way! Thank you for sharing!
The way he walked around and looked at all of the audience when he first came to the stage is telling of his high level of awareness. To immediately recognize the presence and participation of the audience members as contributors to the event and to take his first moments to acknowledge them rather than stand in place and soak in their recognition of him, is very refreshing to see. It’s apparent that he really respects the people who came to see him and is grateful and excited for the opportunity to talk to them.
humility is a true sign of genuine greatness!!!
Wtf man. Calm down
This is brilliant. All waking hours we attempt to process meaning and understand the world we encounter. And there is always that tension of perception that inundates our feelings and our reasoning processes. We are creatures that are remarkably unaware of ourselves and the world around us. Collectively we construct our world view one brick at a time.
You just blow me into pieces with so much truth
One of the few public figures i've ever seen , who's presence on stage is so powerful, that even when he pauses for thought . the audience are still listening....( even his words are not enough..the audience are so engrossed in watching his mind ticking over you could hear a pin drop )
I was there at that show to see the man, the legend, JBP!!
Thank you for passing by Montreal and sharing your deep wisdom and knowledge. We appreciate you very much.
Always great when Jonathan and Jordan get together. Thank you both for you contributions
I have to say that this is one of your best lectures yet where you were firing on all cylinders a nd knowing the crowd was into your every word!
Don't ever give up the fight you two guys Humanity lies in the balance
I´m super happy and blessed to be able to listen to these messages before turning 40. It´s been 2 years of learning from Peterson. I'm even making more money because I work a lot F6king harder and with more meaning and focus now. Thank you Doc @Jordan B Peterson !
This is one of my favourite talks in recent memory. Really got right to the point but still went beyond my expectation.
Peterson is such an enigma. I love listening to how he explains his position. Its always reasonable in some very philosophical way.
I am celebrating the opportunity to hear you both explain the complexities of life. So thankful to everyone involved in getting this to the masses.
Hopefully our kids will be educated enough in good time to understand what JBP is saying.
That was a great conversation and deep and complex, so much so that I have watched it twice since it was released yesterday. Even better the second time, as I grappled with all the different strands.
nah, that is just your mind playing tricks on you. The brain is amazing at making sense of bullshit.
@@michielkarskens2284 Really? O_o. What part exactly? I would bet you didn't listen to any of it outside of maybe the introduction, correct me if I am wrong. I was able to tie in a lot of what JP said to ideas and thoughts I have had myself that I couldn't fully flesh out but understood they were there and meant something. He is trying to say that ( from my perspective ) without a proper hierarchy of ethics or values ( whether that be from a religious background or not ) to keep people's perspectives and decision making in line with doing the "right thing" as best we can in most situations there would be chaos like what is going in the world right now. Also, that people observe objects and situations as meanings and when they don't have a proper ethical foundation to understand or weigh the values relative to the meanings or to make the correct decisions then you get situations like the examples he gave about people furthering their careers in social sciences and other areas through affirming things that are just not true. I got out of it something I have always felt when it comes to "empirical evidence" that most people can find something that they want out of a complex set of variables because what they are observing is meaning and not objects which can depend on the persons hierarchy of values. Really hard to explain, but I think you should at least give him a chance by listening intently to the whole thing.
Jordan Peterson is one of the greatest minds of our time. A modern day Socrates. He is just a joy to listen to.
Merci beaucoup & thank you, Mr. Pageau and Dr. Peterson, a very enjoyable conversation, as always.
Dr Peterson, I went with 5 of my friends and this was an amazing experience. Hope you come back to Montreal in the future.
What a gift it was to be in the audience for this talk. Thank you!
Wow! Peterson firing on all cylinders here! Thank you both for providing this talk for us all when we need it most. A lot of ground beautifully covered! Bravo!
The production value of this was undeniably good. Well done team!
Thank you so much JBP for giving us insight of your years of experience and knowledge.
*He uses words that accurately and eloquently convey and match his ideas. Then he matches his ideas to facts. One of most logical and thought provoking men of our time.*
Years ago I was friends with a Canadian man, a tough carny, who grew up among the roughest people of New Brunswick. He told me this story: Once when he was staying in a small town, the night life of his friends was being ruined by a cruel bully who enjoyed humiliating a man in front of his woman, and if the man resisted, brutally beating him. So one night four of them feigned admiration for the guy, got him drunk, and drove him out to a country road. There they overpowered him and smashed each of his hands repeatedly in the hinge side of the car door. My friend said the man never again hit anyone with his fists.
In countering a brutal Alpha male, I think the bond of courage is the essential element, and those diplomatic reciprocities you speak of are secondary. It is a very simple thing; I have seen it in fighting roosters. And it can under certain circumstances be established instantly among strangers. Without it, you merely have politics.
Well said.
Thank you Sir Peterson. Thank You Mister Pageau.
So grateful to have been there, what a night, what a lecture.
I live in Montreal- where was it? At McGill ?
@@annieholbis2430 place des arts.
@@abdallahrachidi8431 had I known he was coming I would have gone
Proud to say I was there ! His wife Tammy Peterson was seating right in front of me what a night it was 😭😭😭
So happy that Pageau brought up the idea of compassion. Peterson's answer is spot on but I would love to see him flesh it out more and include mercy and forgiveness within that framework.
Always a pleasure and privilege and honor to listen to Jordan Peterson speak. This entire talk and both men were awesome thanks so much for sharing. God bless u sir. I prayed for Jordan Peterson that the Lord Jesus would save him and use his wonderful mind to save others and Jesus is doing just that! Just talked to a guy last nite that loves Jordan and becs of his Christian studies and lectures he is coming to my church this week! Wonderful news! Praise God he made it all and us, so amazing and beautiful what all this is and what He has created!