TRAINING A DEMON : Evil Ryu Online w/Max (Ultra Street Fighter 4)

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  • Опубліковано 21 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 398

  • @MrBISHOP826
    @MrBISHOP826 10 років тому +21

    This video should have been named "How to train your demon"

  • @tking6740
    @tking6740 10 років тому +7

    Every time I see Max play I get hyped and then I want to play the game then when I do I get demolished.

  • @xxEvilChris
    @xxEvilChris 10 років тому +39

    For those of you who do not understand Street Fighter, and are riding this E. Ryu bandwagon to Hell's end, let me clarify the situation. E. Ryu was not garbage during his original release in 2011, granted his mobility and priority on certain moves were not the best, but the character required you to actually know what you were doing, and know how to the play the game with some core fundamentals. I play E. Ryu, he is my main, and speaking to many of my E. Ryu brethren that have played him as long as I have, I have this to say; 'this character has not gotten any "crazy" buffs that would make him and his match-ups overtly powerful. The success from this character contrives from knowing the game and understanding how the character works and how to get damage from him. People say Seth is a terrible character now because they removed so much from him during this recent update, yes, because he was not "Street Fighter" character, and now Seth players have to learn to play the game instead of wall-jumping out of corners and creating meter-less pressure with tandem engine. Same premise, this character has gotten a few buffs... But now he is getting all of this spotlight because Daigo plays him, and I assure all of you that he still takes work.'
    E. Ryu is a very strong character, yes, back in AE2012 he was amazing to begin with. But now he has a vortex game, because his start-up on his sweep is faster meaning that L. Tatsu - Sweep works now (on half of the cast mind you). I hate to see people bandwagon a character because it got buffs rather than sticking with something, getting better with a supposedly "C-B Tier" character, then getting those buffs understanding the character archetype, thus making themselves as a player stronger, just as I did. E. Ryu has never been bad... He just took understanding Street Fighter, and people just don't understand that.

    • @xxEvilChris
      @xxEvilChris 10 років тому +2

      I watched Sako do his "Rufus-only" axe kick combo on Famitsutube and that was the greatest thing I've ever seen him do, besides get through Capcom Cup beating the best JPN players of the world. I love watching Sako, and tbh, he needs more coverage.
      Daigo is an amazing player, the elements that he adds to his game are amazing as well, the altering of his style is fantastic, because he changes for the player he is fighting and not the character. But, his fandom is WAY too large. Daigo seems a little less human than certain competitors, and I feel like people would relate better to players who played with more emotion.
      But all in all, I've capitalized the swirl of misinformation in SF4 for a good while. And what pains me the most is that now I see the inevitable about to happen. Everyone's so hype for E. Ryu's buffs, everyone plays him (leaving the scrubs who don't WANT to play him to complain how much they see him online and don't want to adapt, rather nerf), Capcom shoots a nerf gun at him that's honestly unjustified, E. Ryu still ends up being good, and head ways more complaints. This has happened A TON with this game, and history only repeats itself, especially for Street Fighter.

    • @azuresaiyan9005
      @azuresaiyan9005 10 років тому

      Masterworldz98 They suck Daigo's dick for other resons. Personally, I prefer that Daigo stick with Ryu, but now it seems Sako is sticking with Ibuki, as he dislikes playing characters everyone uses, which is why he stopped playing Cammy.

    • @azuresaiyan9005
      @azuresaiyan9005 10 років тому

      xxEvilChris Well, Daigo has a huge fanbase for how inspirational he is, and pretty much being one of the most contributing folks for the FGC growth. He is also the player who applies your philosophy of Street Fighter better than any other player, not complaining about nerfs or buff, simply adapting to the game, as well as being humble. You aren't giving the guy enough credit.

    • @xxEvilChris
      @xxEvilChris 10 років тому

      ***** I think calling the guy "an amazing player" is more than enough credit. In my eyes, he is no longer the go-to player for performance for me. I have seen way too many matches of players with such awareness that Daigo is lost in the slew of advanced and professional players. Daigo is an innovator, and someone to look up to, yes, but his amazement and I believe his glory has died out.
      The whole nerfs and buffs thing (which is actually one of the five gripes I have with Capcom's latest iteration to Street Fighter 4) was mostly based on the feedback of players who didn't understand how to play Street Fighter and it's punishing to see that the census built for deliberating how Street Fighter 4 evolves is based on people who don't understand how to "avoid" or "escape" certain scenarios. There's times where people don't understand how to escape corners, NOT PRESS BUTTONS, respecting uppercuts, be aware of spacing; all of these things hinder the advancement that I believe Ultra could have been.
      Thus, looping back to players band-wagoning E. Ryu. I like the fact that people are playing this character, I don't like it when they are playing characters because someone else who is innately better than them is playing the seem character, in the vain hopes that they will achieve even a small slice of emulation of Daigo Umehara.

    • @CelsiusTheBarbarian
      @CelsiusTheBarbarian 10 років тому

      I can agree with this...I haven't played SF in so long since AE and that's who I wanted to main because he was the go to guy since SFA3. I just never had the time to practice with him. Maybe this time around (If the game hits Xone) I'll take another stab at it...

  • @EdwinDPZ
    @EdwinDPZ 10 років тому +5

    FGC hipster: I liked Evil Ryu before he got buffed!

  • @honesthamster1456
    @honesthamster1456 10 років тому

    In all my years of watching Max, this is the first time I've ever been interested in his Street Fighter stuff and I'm digging it.

  • @brandonlamberty6909
    @brandonlamberty6909 10 років тому +1

    Max Ive been subscribed to you for a long time and I just want to say keep up the great work dood!

  • @Hell_Soll
    @Hell_Soll 10 років тому +3

    I was never realy interested in SF4 before since I tryed out the first SF4... but looking at you playing with such joy just MAY change my mind about this game :D

    • @supersnappahead
      @supersnappahead 10 років тому +4

      No fighting game is as fun as Max makes it look hehe.

    • @jonmkl
      @jonmkl 10 років тому

      supersnappahead Except 3S! YO!

  • @MegamanNG
    @MegamanNG 10 років тому +10

    4:42 - (thinks back to the EX Lariat absorbing Ryu's Ultra 1)

    • @jonmkl
      @jonmkl 10 років тому

      Hah! Same, I was practically waiting for it!

    • @MegamanNG
      @MegamanNG 10 років тому

      You and me both.

    • @reku1emu
      @reku1emu 5 років тому

      that damned moment

  • @OmegaVega
    @OmegaVega 10 років тому +4

    Im very happy that you use e. ryu ,i can learn a lot of your gameplay ,thanks :D

  • @RedTheCrimson
    @RedTheCrimson 10 років тому

    Man..I remember when I first saw hugo. It was near when I picked up my xbox, I bought this cool lookin fighter game called SVC Chaos. Not only is it my 2nd favorite fighter out there (due to shiki, violent ken, and the best moveset for Iori I've seen ever), but it introduced me to a lot of characters I had never seen or heard of before, and therefore introduced me to a whole slew of other fighter titles.

  • @jonmkl
    @jonmkl 10 років тому

    Super glad to see max hopping on the E. Ryu! Hopefully this will keep his 3S skills from degrading so much like they do when he plays SF4 ken, and it's always good to see max with such a hype character.

  • @DrIronbuddah
    @DrIronbuddah 10 років тому

    Watching that Perfect on that Hugo was just so satisfying.

  • @jdog45ify
    @jdog45ify 10 років тому +18

    The title should of been called "how to train your demon"

  • @JesseJaceThomas
    @JesseJaceThomas 10 років тому

    I like Evil Ryu, too. I just started playing him. He plays nice and smoooooove. Got that evil, evil flow

  • @NetMoverSitan
    @NetMoverSitan 10 років тому

    The closest Ken has been to that state is Violent Ken. (which involved Psycho Power, the source of M Bison's powers) M Bison considers Satsui No Hadou to be "the ultimate form of Psycho Power", although I don't think it was directly confirmed.
    Match #1 - Ryu fights his dark side.
    Match #2 - Sylvester Stallone after a steroid overdose.
    Match #3 - Is this a joke?...
    Match #4 - Where's the nuclear wessels?!...Dr Eggman, that's a terrible copy of him!
    Match #5 - It's not Tuesday, yet!

  • @joeledwards857
    @joeledwards857 10 років тому

    @StaceyGardner He studied under Gouken however his training was stopped when Gouken realised he only wanted his skills to kill Sagat. His father taught him muay Thai and gouken taught him beginner Akatsken so he is a hybrid Muay Thai/Shoto fighter

  • @2rok334
    @2rok334 10 років тому +4

    Max, I admire your modest attitude, but you ARE a fighting game pro, despite what you say. Just because you don't make the finals of EVO every year does not mean you aren't a pro. I doubt many regular gamers can be so good at such a huge variety of fighting games consistently. Not only that, but when you pick up a fighting game, you can figure it out instantly. You have any idea how long it took me to adjust to Persona 4 arena from SF4? And then I watch you do it in like half an hour! And you don't even like that game! Seriously Max, you are pro in you own way.

  • @TheeOnlyDjinn
    @TheeOnlyDjinn 10 років тому

    it pleases me to know i am actually getting better by watching these and other ultra vids,when he played against bison in that first round i knew exactly how he was gonna win the round and eight seconds later he did exactly what i thought,cool feeling i have to admit.

  • @ShueyTheHumbled
    @ShueyTheHumbled 10 років тому +9

    Who else is waitin' for the inevitable Hermione Granger comment? :D

  • @blocksmag
    @blocksmag 10 років тому

    Always nice to see you play Max, No Matter the character.

  • @_Digishade_
    @_Digishade_ 10 років тому

    E. Ryu is pretty freaking beastly in this version. Pretty fun to watch, too.

  • @the333gamer333
    @the333gamer333 10 років тому

    Evil Ryu is fun to watch playing, you know what's also fun? THE ASURA'S WRATH DLC

  • @evilryuandasrielfromundert6721
    @evilryuandasrielfromundert6721 7 років тому

    I feel so loved right now someone who kinda relates to my love for E.ryu

  • @BenchForAllTheMarbles
    @BenchForAllTheMarbles 10 років тому

    Great Job as always, Max.

  • @JVAnimeContent
    @JVAnimeContent 10 років тому

    Really enjoyed this max! keep it up!

  • @tking6740
    @tking6740 10 років тому

    That robo-gief was begging for a shoryuken toward the end of that match.

  • @PwaPokey
    @PwaPokey 10 років тому +3

    Evil Ryu is so HYYYYYPPPEEEE!!!!!!

  • @TtopMusic
    @TtopMusic 10 років тому

    Pretty sure I played you (and got rocked by you) when I first picked up Ultra hahaha
    good vid!

  • @DaneNerro9
    @DaneNerro9 10 років тому

    Evil Ryu... look at him from the right angle... you now know he is the Warrior of Sunlight. XD

  • @howard_james
    @howard_james 10 років тому +35

    Hugo looks like an escaped mental patient. Pretty creepy.

    • @ShueyTheHumbled
      @ShueyTheHumbled 10 років тому +8

      Only thing Hugo needs is a better haircut.

    • @Levi_Skardsen
      @Levi_Skardsen 10 років тому +4

      He pretty much is like that. While he hasn't escaped from anywhere, he does have the mind of a child. He was written that way all the way back to Final Fight.

    • @chknrsandTBBTROX73
      @chknrsandTBBTROX73 10 років тому +1

      I agree, HE'S MAD! Even his hair is mad!

    • @ThineAlphaRooster
      @ThineAlphaRooster 9 років тому +4

      He is numbah hwaan btw.

    • @arielgonzalez008
      @arielgonzalez008 8 років тому

      Sounds like one, too. Which is the worst part

  • @BigBlackGWAR
    @BigBlackGWAR 10 років тому

    Much respect to you Max, as well as to all Street Fighter players. I can not for the life of me do one simple combo. I am stuck on Ryu's level 7 trial combo and can not do it. I have tried for the last 2 hours. Street Fighter is just not my game.

  • @SoulFistGaming
    @SoulFistGaming 10 років тому

    4:29 is the reason i like evil ryu in this game. even though sf4 isnt a combo heavy game, characters like e. Ryu and my girl Sakura can still do some stylish looking combos.

  • @drunknjokakyng2160
    @drunknjokakyng2160 10 років тому +1

    Classic Spaceballs reference Max LOL

  • @TankP0wnz
    @TankP0wnz 10 років тому

    Max with those 3rd strike block strings (jab short jab)

  • @Skycrusher
    @Skycrusher 7 років тому

    "He hasn't uppercut me once" *Had already been uppercut several times* Quality commentary

    • @crestfallendweeb8402
      @crestfallendweeb8402 7 років тому +1

      Skycrusher They were all blocked prior he was speaking of how he wasn't getting DP'd for jumping in.

  • @SirCommanderPancakes
    @SirCommanderPancakes 10 років тому

    "Shadow uppercut"
    We all know where Max's mind is.

  • @Charnel_Heart
    @Charnel_Heart 10 років тому

    Max and The Left Handed Monkey
    Maximum amount of Evil Ryu.

  • @Alemelbi
    @Alemelbi 10 років тому

    Metsu.... HADOKEN!!! Love it he says that!

  • @joeledwards857
    @joeledwards857 10 років тому

    @DavidDiaz Each character is different. For example you may think Ryu and Ken are exactly the same however Ryu is more about spacing and fundamentals, footsies etc whilst ken is a more in your face mix up character using a technique called kara grab

  • @Redeemable88
    @Redeemable88 9 років тому

    By far the best video entertainment wise. I main Evil Ryu so that was enjoyable.

    • @MovieTimeStudios
      @MovieTimeStudios 8 років тому

      I'm getting great with him! I just got the game yesterday and he rocks! I can't really pull off the high hit combos though. 😩I win with him alot though!

    • @Redeemable88
      @Redeemable88 8 років тому

      +MovieTimeStudios
      Good deal man. Keep it up. I'm playing Ken in 5 now.

    • @MovieTimeStudios
      @MovieTimeStudios 8 років тому

      +TJ Reynolds How is V mate? V just doesn't pack that, "punch" for me. 😩I still wanna play it though no matter what the others say! XD

    • @Redeemable88
      @Redeemable88 8 років тому

      +MovieTimeStudios
      I honestly feel like IV is way better. But it does have some refreshing qualities. It's fun though!

    • @MovieTimeStudios
      @MovieTimeStudios 8 років тому

      +TJ Reynolds IKR?! XD And, did they take out the mini games? Or do you have to unlock them again? :o

  • @Squeedly135
    @Squeedly135 10 років тому

    Hey max, I'm not sure if anyone else would appreciate this, but I think that every now and again in your videos, a camera of your hands somewhere on screen would be SUPER helpful to players trying to learn an arcade stick like myself. Every time I've ever tried one out, I just can't seem to find anything comfortable, my hands get lost on the buttons and doing combos is a nightmare. Just a suggestion, it would be awesome for a few videos like that. Great vid tho, keep it up :)

    • @Masterworldz98
      @Masterworldz98 10 років тому

      There're beginners guide on switching from a pad to a joystick at Eventhubs.com

    • @Squeedly135
      @Squeedly135 10 років тому

      Thanks, I'll check that out!

  • @kaihillp2
    @kaihillp2 10 років тому

    I just noticed that he made a spaceballs ReFFERENCE....connection...Has been made.

  • @AeolusMN
    @AeolusMN 10 років тому

    Love max doing Ken combos with E.RYu haha

  • @ForgetfulGhost
    @ForgetfulGhost 10 років тому

    THE SPACEBALLS REFERENCE IS TOO OP!! xD

  • @joeledwards857
    @joeledwards857 10 років тому

    @Minija456 You're currently playing Arcade Edition not super, basically Ultra has new characters, stages, mechanics, game modes.

  • @tungcolin6526
    @tungcolin6526 10 років тому

    Max uve gotten better with evil ryu good job!!!!

  • @Nait6661
    @Nait6661 10 років тому

    Yea Evil Ryu I just started playing super SF on PC and I started playing Evil Ryu

  • @byroncharles
    @byroncharles 10 років тому

    i like when he does a week of character

  • @M2DaAR
    @M2DaAR 10 років тому

    respect on posting that lost and good match

  • @saminabox
    @saminabox 10 років тому +6

    Max u gotta stop random jump ins

  • @UnRealHavoc
    @UnRealHavoc 10 років тому

    I remember watching this live stream!

  • @joeledwards857
    @joeledwards857 10 років тому

    @Sequencechada Because he is the best character currently in USF4

  • @Fi4ylR4mber
    @Fi4ylR4mber 10 років тому

    06:26 - 06:28 Max: "There we go. Gotta play SUPER lame"
    Me: If that was lame, I don't want see what boring is like because you got perfect like it was easy O.o

  • @gauhchu
    @gauhchu 10 років тому

    Hey Max, that was no Delayed Wakeup at the start of the video! You would see a "Technical" message appear when you or your opponent uses it!

  • @D_____________887
    @D_____________887 10 років тому +1

    Mastered the fire ball at least...

  • @MegamanNG
    @MegamanNG 10 років тому +4

    I wanna see him try with T. Hawk.

    • @isnanesavant
      @isnanesavant 10 років тому +31

      T.Hawk has a fucking gun

    • @MegamanNG
      @MegamanNG 10 років тому +1

      isnanesavant T. Hawk is dangerous. I play him A LOT and though he is strong with some of his pokes and moves, he has a LOT of weaknesses. Many moves have little to no invincibility and can be EASY to punish.

    • @LightWillIgniteUsAll
      @LightWillIgniteUsAll 10 років тому +5

      ***** Just use the gun

    • @MegamanNG
      @MegamanNG 10 років тому

      Juri Han EX Condor Dive and EX Condor Spire passes through projectiles.

    • @MegamanNG
      @MegamanNG 10 років тому

      ***** yep.

  • @originalscreenname44
    @originalscreenname44 10 років тому

    Hilarious that Mecha-Gief is just 80s Colossus.

  • @astro-yx3vf
    @astro-yx3vf 6 років тому

    Who else was screaming to the screen "DO YOUR ULTRA MOVE!"

  • @LtLegault
    @LtLegault 10 років тому

    1:03 brothers separated at birth

  • @SevinPounds
    @SevinPounds 10 років тому

    A tier list doesn't mean that a characters better just means that character has more potential

  • @1a2d09
    @1a2d09 10 років тому

    Max: "I want to beat him with Anime"
    Me: HOW DOES ONE THIS!?!!?!??! :O

  • @GigaPorkBun
    @GigaPorkBun 10 років тому +14

    E. Ryu is probably the best character in the game. I should probably pick him up...

    • @zZShadowNinjaZz1
      @zZShadowNinjaZz1 10 років тому

      wow XD

    • @HurriKayne55
      @HurriKayne55 10 років тому +10

      Pick him up n see how wrong you are

    • @Masterworldz98
      @Masterworldz98 10 років тому +11

      ^this nigga, plays characters cuz he thinks he's OP. And not for liking the character. Good luck playing E. Ryu with less than average health. And as an E. Ryu player myself due to being inspired by Hori Sako, go f**k yourself.

    • @bane4572
      @bane4572 10 років тому +7

      No no no no! Dan is the best character in the game.

    • @SoulFistGaming
      @SoulFistGaming 10 років тому +1

      uh... no he is not

  • @wasupman777
    @wasupman777 10 років тому

    whoa..whoa hold up a fuckin damn min,is this one out?

  • @joeledwards857
    @joeledwards857 10 років тому

    @anieltanis He uses an arcade stick or fightstick whatever you prefer.

  • @otaris2099
    @otaris2099 10 років тому

    Evil Ryu ... hes like regular ryu but better!

  • @noslopdx
    @noslopdx 10 років тому

    Hugo's EX Lariat is NOT safe.

  • @FallenPit
    @FallenPit 10 років тому

    Max you need to either get a raging demon or ultra 2 next time man because it just awesome and you are too

  • @HappyToS33Me
    @HappyToS33Me 10 років тому

    "I wanna beat 'em with anime"
    -Maximillian 2014

  • @TheC0unt5
    @TheC0unt5 10 років тому

    what a surprise...max playing top tier....lol

  • @bezold27
    @bezold27 10 років тому

    WE NEED SOME DUDLEY ACTION

  • @zZShadowNinjaZz1
    @zZShadowNinjaZz1 10 років тому

    in this version they've basically made a clone of ryu that's just better in every way i think that's why daigo changed to e ryu

  • @KhunShawn
    @KhunShawn 10 років тому

    Someone tell max that forward M kick can automatically Tatsu.

    • @Masterworldz98
      @Masterworldz98 10 років тому

      Naw. You can cancel it into a tatsu with a different animation though.

  • @Bakalar
    @Bakalar 10 років тому

    erm max? you don't train a demon. the demon trains you. :)

  • @AegisREDflector
    @AegisREDflector 10 років тому

    An Asura skin? YES.

  • @ta-to3tt
    @ta-to3tt 10 років тому

    Really smart player

  • @anitamama9410
    @anitamama9410 9 років тому

    on a first match you can do super combo with evil ryu.LP,LP,Forward to enemy,Lk,Hp.Try practice that combo

    • @pkpowers3107
      @pkpowers3107 8 років тому

      Or use all three punches in hp place and do raging demom

  • @Axelete
    @Axelete 4 роки тому

    That white color for evil ryu looks like ryu in the first game just evil instead

  • @duffthebeerslayer
    @duffthebeerslayer 10 років тому

    Evil Ryu reminds me of Asura's from Asura's Wrath

  • @TheSithlord187
    @TheSithlord187 10 років тому

    Shadow Jago vs Jago? Oh wait Super Saiyan God Ryu?

  • @JefferyDavisJr.
    @JefferyDavisJr. 6 років тому

    KAGE IS HERE!

  • @lancecryor
    @lancecryor 10 років тому

    Does Max stream with the Elgato too or does he use something else?

  • @PrizmoTheMonarch
    @PrizmoTheMonarch 10 років тому

    How do you move out of an animation frame? For example, you did a combo when you did a fire ball to a hurricane kick then a dragon upper. Or moving out of a focus attack.

  • @Mokinari
    @Mokinari 10 років тому

    You started out as #264 E. Ryu, don't talk like your just now learning matchups when it's clear your already really good.

  • @quillynx499
    @quillynx499 10 років тому

    I would like to see him play T.Hawk he got a lot better now;)

  • @TheGOATofEverything
    @TheGOATofEverything 10 років тому +1

    drop him naoooooooo!

  • @TenchiKinjin
    @TenchiKinjin 10 років тому

    "He is the 41 best Dan in the world" there are probably only 42 people who play Dan.

  • @oil_moon
    @oil_moon 10 років тому

    lol wow, Zangief's U1 did fuck all damage with Ultra Double

  • @oly6460
    @oly6460 10 років тому

    He did upper cut you on that first round max you silly

  • @Ice-Climber
    @Ice-Climber 10 років тому

    There's one thing that's been bugging me for a while; what's the advantage of a fully charged focus attack on a stunned character?

  • @SeraphicKnightX
    @SeraphicKnightX 10 років тому

    Max you shoulda done EX Axe Kick at the end instead of EX DP

  • @ultramilktoast2654
    @ultramilktoast2654 10 років тому

    So I know they say it's because his name's Edmond, but what if E. Honda meant Evil Honda? That'd be an interesting character.

  • @BritishTeaFGC
    @BritishTeaFGC 10 років тому

    Is there a cameo from TheLeftHandedMonkey?

  • @whitetornadodk
    @whitetornadodk 10 років тому

    EX Monster Lariat is not safe or at advantage on block. It's -6, Max.

  • @metaminerx
    @metaminerx 10 років тому

    that zangief- Oh my

    • @Cuddlefish
      @Cuddlefish 10 років тому

      Woah buddy that's me, I also hope he puts up the part where I fight him again.

    • @metaminerx
      @metaminerx 10 років тому

      Biollanteman nothing to be ashamed of people are bad when they start. they get better if they keep at it good luck with your zangief.

    • @Cuddlefish
      @Cuddlefish 10 років тому

      Yeah thanks, I always have trouble with those damn fireballs. Also you'd be surprised, I actually managed to beat Max in our second match.

  • @TheAnimal2694
    @TheAnimal2694 10 років тому

    Has he done any playing as Oni for a video? I am OK at SSF4, Oni is on of my favorites. So I would love to see someone great playing as him

  • @davidtorres8788
    @davidtorres8788 10 років тому

    This game already have all the previous costumes packs in the game it self?

  • @PlanetSulfur
    @PlanetSulfur 10 років тому

    Lets be honest max, the only reason you're playing E. Ryu is because he's the best shoto of ultra :P

  • @gabrielmontreuil
    @gabrielmontreuil 10 років тому

    Wish Asura was a playable Street Fighter 4 Character

  • @ahmedhamiduddin9080
    @ahmedhamiduddin9080 10 років тому

    More more moooooooore

  • @Luminethereploid
    @Luminethereploid 10 років тому +2

    It appears Max visCAN'T win this one.