The Three WORST Black Powder Revolvers
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- In this video, I’ll share what I consider to be my three least favorite cap & ball revolvers. Be sure to subscribe to my channel for more videos. Thanks for watching!
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I would have to include the Patterson revolver, no loading lever, no trigger guard.
Like the LeMat it’s a nifty gun, but in terms of functionality and practicality it’s at the bottom
Get the Texas patterson
I own 2 Uberti Pattersons. The original with a separate loading tool and a later model with an attached loading lever. They are both unfired, and rest in a mahogany case together. I only bought them as collector pieces.
And reproductions are incredibly expensive (at least what I’ve found)
My first BP revolver was the 1851 Brasser in 44. Bought the starter pack on sale at Bass Pro. I do like it though because it got me into the hobby. I then bought a Trapper Flintlock, a Walker and a 3rd Model Dragoon. Great fun! By the way, your cartridge kit works great.
Pietta loves to live in Fantasy land. I have an 1858 with a brass frame. Never made at Remington in this configuration, but cheap for Pietta to produce.
And Hollywood loves to put them in movies for some reason, probably budget
That was my starter it's still shoots good.over well over 500 rounds.
My first cap and ball was a brass frame 1858. The frame warped over time making the alignment off and operation difficult. I ended up throwing it away. Steel frame is what I have now and it has not warped or distorted with heavy use.
Don't ever buy a brass framed gun. They will warp over time, not if but when. Buy a real iron gun. Some piettas are made of stainless steel. I would highly suggest it
A have a Uberti 1851 Navy. I didn't shoot it much when I bought it 20 years ago, but I took it out several months back and found it had problems. It was the best thing that could have happened. I learned how to completely disassemble and reassemble it. I eventually found that it had a flattened percussion cap in the action, which was basically fused to the frame. It also had a broken hand spring. So, I replaced the hand assembly; but had to file the new hand, because it was binding against the arbor. I also replaced the spring for the trigger and bolt with a Wolf Spring. Then I bought slix-shot nipples , and installed them. Now, the revolver performs perfectly. This was also a learning experience for my Uberti SAA. Both have a similar design, with exceptions to the notches on the hammer, as well as the SAA not having a hand assembly with a flat spring. There is a tiny screw on the left side of the frame that holds a small coil spring in place. That spring holds a pin that replaces the pressure on the hand. I'm glad that I didn't send the 1851 out for repair, or go to a gunsmith.
I have to agree with these choices. That said, I have tuned and shot the 1849 Wells Fargo extensively. It is a handy little gun when it doesn’t cap jam and I can see why it was the most popular revolver in the 1850’s, given how unwieldy the other models were. It barely qualifies as a gun, but it at least shoots! The power is directly comparable to a .22 lr pocket revolver.
True, the power is lackluster, BUT there is a lot to be said for catching a 00 buckshot in the chest or face, lol! (Okay, ‘lol’ isn’t the most appropriate thing to add to being shot…)
is that walter white
Your number 1 worst is one of my favorites, not because it's a good gun (I agree it's a terrible one), but because those starter packs help get so many people into black powder revolvers. It's the perfect gateway drug. Good enough to spark joy, but bad enough to make people curious about better models.
I disagree with your opinion of the brass frame .44 cal 1851 Pietta. I have had one for 18 years or so and have shot it a lot, it is not a historical version of the 1851, but very few cap and ball reproductions really are (try finding one with the historical gain twist rifling, with a recoil shield properly machined to reduce cap sucking as the originals were, and with a frame properly machined for use of conical bullets - they have been made but good luck.
The brass framed Pietta is not an accurate historical reproduction but it is inexpensive, has excellent excellent natural pointing ability and balance in the hand, is accurate and is of quality manufacture. I prefer it over my Pietta 1858 Remington and enjoy it just as much as the steel frame 1860 I used to have (though I prefer the light weight of the 1851 to the slightly heavier 1860). It is an excellent introduction to cap and ball revolvers.
I usually shoot 22 grains of Old Eynsford powder, although the first year or two I had it I shot it with 30-35 grains of powder, and sometimes experimented with higher compressed loads. I have seen not even a hint of frame stretching in 15 years of steady use, I believe that frame stretching is no longer an issue to worry about with modern Piettas, if it occurs at all I believe it would only be with a steady diet of excessive loads, mine is tight as brand new, I would be hard pressed to slip a piece of paper into the cylinder gap. I have an extra trigger spring and hand, I may never need it but some trigger springs fail prematurely so I figured it was good to have, and it cost under $5 - several years later the extra parts are still waiting to be used.
In short this particular Pietta is fun, accurate (assuming you know how to compensate for a design that naturally shoots high), long lasting and a good deal. It is also extremely inexpensive to operate (I make lube from olive oil and bee's wax (45 minutes to make enough lube for a few years), cast my own bullets and balls and reuse lead I recover from targets, make my own powder (for about $5/lb) since Goex stopped making Old Eynsford, and can make my own percussion caps for a fraction of a penny each with the Tap-a cap percussion cap die I have. For me cap and ball is cheaper than .22lr and generally speaking more fun.
Anyway that is my opinion, so that people may compare it with yours.
ps Here is advice to allow a Pietta 1851 hit point of aim: remove the front sight - it is just a friction fit bit of brass, it can be pulled out with plyers or a small vice grip. Find a bit of aluminum or brass wire (aluminum is a better color for visibility of the front sight). Cut the wire so it is longer (taller) than the original, temporarily install it then file it down until the elevation is correct to hit the point of aim. Then remove it and file the top to a point, but do not file the point so it is centered, but so the point is to one side of the wire. This way, when you place the new sight back into the gun you can adjust the windage by rotating the front sight, this moves the point at the top of the new sight from one side to the center to the other side. Now replace the sight and adjust it so the windage is correct, then remove the sight and glue it back in in the correct position with a drop of 5 minute epoxy to hold it in. Now you have a revolver that hits dead on with a sight that is better than the original. The front sight may be removed if need be by heating up the front of the barrel with a heat gun, this causes epoxy to release enough so that the new sight may then be pulled out. Have fun.
The three WORST cap & ball revolvers are for me starting from #3 being the worst: #3.1862 Police Revolver,#2.1847 Walker Revolver (sorry...),#1.1860 Army Revolver.
my least fav is my reproduction 1836 Texas Paterson because no loading lever, has to be disassembled and requires specialty took to load and that tool IS NOT AVAILABLE... so I have to Make one myself. also it's 36 cal 5-shot where as all my other BP firearms are 44cal 6 shot.
I REALLY wanna LeMat. NGL
I wanna a pocket pistol, I'm kinda leaning toward 63 Remi. Back in the 70s a friend of mine who knew a lot about all kinds of guns said stay away from brass frames period
Great information as always . I do not own any cap and ball revolvers.Although I find them interesting , I am in Canada so presently handguns are a no-no. Many thanks.
Vintage (but not reproductions of vintage) revolvers are not prohibited in Canada.
Good grief, they even took cap n' ball handguns away from you guys? Even Jolly ol' England isn't that bad! :(
@@DK-gy7ll If it is an original from the 1800s, then it gets a pass. But a modern replica of the same firearm, identical in every respect, is banned.
@@mechaform Canadians got to stop voting in commies !
Any, and I mean any! Brass frame 1858 Remington revolvers! I have tried many of these so-called repos from 1979 to last week, using anywhere from 10gr. To 22gr. Of powder. The top straps of the frames have ALL BROKE! I have scars on my hand from these cheap made brass frame revolvers. Do not buy! Always go with steel frame! Regardless what you are told!
The brass frame 1851 is based on the Confederate produced navy revolver. If I remember correctly the Gunderson revolver, and yes, they were produced in 44. cal
Griswold and Gunnison, yeah, but the frames of those guns were not brass, they were gunmetal, which is a type of bronze, not brass, the handles of the G&G revolvers were bent slightly compared to the 1851 Colt Navy, they also had a non octagonal barrel too. The Pietta 1851 brass frame is a cheaply made imitation, they aren't bad guns though.
Like you said, they are all good. I have to agree on the LeMat. It's just a beast...but a fun one. Happy Thanksgiving!
50years ago I had a Navy Arms Brass Frame 1851 Navy .I tried it with Pyrodex (it was a new product then and the Pistol version hadn't come out yet). The Pyrodex wouldn't burn so I switched to GOEX. The heavy loads with GOEX soon loosened the Base Pin and I had to have the Hand replaced. My little Brother also has a Brass Frame 1851 which stretched out and is now a wall hanger. From now on I'll stick with the Steel Frame Guns . I have your Paper Cart. Kit but my Pietta 1860 tears them unless I remove the cylinder to reload . I've tried Cig. Papers and Nitrated Coffee Filters. Coffee Filters work best but still not well. Any tips my guns is Factory stock not altered .
we have all favourits guns and guns we don't like. For me, that was the Star single action. Nice gun, original, easy to load but, for me, very higth on the hand for shooting and sight line too tight, not for my eyes, i have sell it... but it was a elegant handgun, and part of history...👍
I have a brass 51' sheriff model in brass/.44 and it's a hoss. Got it just a few years ago for $150 brand new when Cabela's was having a sale. The Pietta quality has come a long way since I bought my first one in 76'. Now I have a sizeable collection and they're all great fun.
Phew I just purchased my first black powder revolver and its not on here. I got the Pietta 1858 Army. I'm loving your channel.
You picked a good one! Thanks for watching!
this is the moment walter white became heisenberg
The Lemat is a great conversation piece, but otherwise a disappointment. The .44 brassers do have a strong tendency to shoot loose, which I can confirm. Another gun on my personal list, would be the 1858 Starr. Had an original once. Not a shooters gun in my opinion.
I own your worst. I like it. I limit my charge to 20 grains and it busts soda cans really well.
As I said, I actually like all the revolvers on this list. It was hard to choose three for it. You’re using a good load for that one, so it should last a long time.
You must have never had or tried to fire a Starr DA. It is my No.1 then the Lemat followed by the Wells Fargo.
I haven’t had my hand on one of those, but I have a feeling it would have made this list.
@@GunsOfTheWest the two most expensive percussion revolvers I ever owned were the Lemat and the Starr DA. I guess the original Starr was just as bad as the reproduction. I sold both of them.
I have the number 1 gun and have had no issues so far👀 brass 1851 navy pietta 7 1/2” .44 cal
Once again, man, you have entertained me with your video.
You really do an excellent job!
Thank you!
How about a top 3 black powder revolvers for beginners
most people buy this type of weapon for fun, so the caliber doesn't matter much, only the appearance. I doubt anyone would use a black powder revolver as a service weapon or for home defense
too bad about the baby dragoon, i liked it a lot, accurate and portable, and loading a cylinder is easier out of the gun, Im ssure a 31 shot to the vital heart or head area might give one time to give said complaint 5 more, but im a paper guy, everyone is different true enough.
Here’s a suggestion Dustin, Top Three conversion revolvers.
What would you recomend for home self defense gun .
Wow the wells fargo 31 call love it very accurate yes low power goes threw two one gal jugs of water my wife uses paper cartridge great for close encounters which is what it was designed for
Yes I can see brass. 44 least liked on the weird side it is also one of my favorites 😅 doh
Concur wholeheartedly. I still want a Lemat just because I collect reproductions and it is in that category.
Even though, for practical reasons, it’s not one of my favorites, it’s definitely a great addition to a collection.
My only cap and ball revolver is a brass frame 36 cal. 1851 Navy made by a company named FIE Italy (?) that I bought in the early 80's. I can't find much information on the company but the gun always shot pretty good, other than the caps falling off the nipples in front of the hammer once it was fired. I would shoot it more if it wasn't for that. Anyway, Thanks for the videos, I really enjoy them!
I have the 1851 Confederate Navy in .36 caliber brass frame made by Pietta, and it is absolute junk. Course the gun was made in 1972, and shot I dunno how many times.
Okay, I really do like them all, but I'd agree with you on the Lamat, the Colt Pocket, and the brass framed 1851. I have a used brass framed Pietta 1860 in 44 that is ugly and seems to be just a money maker for Pietta. I bought it at a steep discount from a local store. And, a brass framed 1858 by Pietta. It's bulky and kinda ugly. No third for me. Thanks Dustin, Happy Thanksgiving!
My list is very close to the same. I would change the 49 pocket with a Remington new model army. Mostly because the 49 pocket is so cheap to shoot. Plus its not bad on power with the Conical bullets. Couldn't tell you why i add the remington. There great guns, there just not for me.
I hate to agree with you on this. Mostly because C&B revolvers are cool. I've had a couple of LeMat revolvers and had to come up with a way to load them not using that loading lever.
OK, here goes. Now I like these revolvers. These are just the ones I like least. The Pietta Griswold and Gunisson , not an accurate copy. it works well though. The 1849 31 caliber pocket model. Nice gun just don't shoot it. The Pietta Double action Starr Revolver. It's just really an odd revolver. I have never shot it, yet. I may someday, but someday hasn't arrived.
Many years ago I picked up a brass-framed Colt replica that was non-functional. The cylinder had hammered into the breech, and would lock up. I don't know about more recent brass-framed guns, but I wouldn't buy one.
Good picks.
Got a video idea for you. Name a few guns that you wished had modern reproductions but don't.
Maybe some Uberti engineer will be watching
Well, I have to disagree on the Wells Fargo model. I've owned a 1974 production ASM Baby Dragoon 3" since that date. Sure, it's not fast to load. And a might small. But in my opinion, a valid representation of a good reproduction of a period in weapons development.
I would never own any brass framed BP. I had inherited a brass framed Armi San Man Marco 1851 Navy chambered in .44, i.e. - a "fantasy gun", which was already considered cursed after my dad chain fired it once and never shot it again. I cleaned it up, swapped out the barrel and cylinder with period-correct Pietta .36 parts, and gave it to my brother with strong words of warning about never overloading it unless he wanted to relive our dad's debacle.
You’d get a chuckle out of some of my ‘ultra-fantasy’ Pietta ‘51’s! I have two that have been, well, for a lack of a better term, ‘Weblyized’ Navy’s. Think brass framed Navy with the distinctive Webley semi fluted barrel…
My first 1860 Army (a 4-screw Uberti) was a real lemon that never locked up the wedge, even after JB welding a nut to the front of the arbor. The wedge just dropped in all the way with zero resistance and I just could not trust that gun enough to actually shoot it. I saved the barrel and cylinder as spare parts for my other 1860 (a 3-screw).
Picked up a Baby Dragoon and was supremely disappointed in that it had the longer frame of the 1849 Pocket (that was expected) but also had the rounded trigger guard of the 1849 (the catalog depicted it with a squareback guard). In essence, it was nothing more than a Wells Fargo with oval cylinder stops instead of square.
The worst of the bunch? An 1873 in black powder percussion configuration, an Uberti Cattleman cap-and-ball. The 1873 Colt was designed as a cartridge revolver, remember, so the chamber was originally designed to be bored-through so the entire length of the cylinder is chamber space. To make the percussion version of the same gun, they had to close off the back of the cylinder with a large amount of metal. The chamber capacity is markedly smaller than that you will find in a .44 caliber cap-and-ball revolver such as the 1860 Army, which has a longer cylinder (the cylinder of an 1873 is shorter than the one in a Navy!)
There's a reason why they say to use only round ball in an 1873 percussion model, because a conical would take up so much room in that short chamber that there would hardly be enough space left over for a decent amount of powder.
If the only way you can get an 1873 is as a black powder muzzleloader, it'll be good enough. If you want a .44/.45 caliber black powder gun in general, you're _much_ better off getting an 1860 or the like instead.
awesome
I'm not a big fan of any replica with a brass frame (unless someone's made a copy of a Griswold & Gunnison). The Griswold & Gunnison revolver was basically a copy of the Colt 3rd model Dragoon, with a 7 1/2 inch .36 caliber barrel, 6-shot cylinder, and... a brass frame (being in .36 it looks like the Colt 1851). Maybe the Confederacy produced other revolvers with a brass frame, I don't know.
Yes the confederacy did produce other brass frame actaually bronze frames in their Dance Brothers revolver.
They were material and cost savings. Trying g to save steel for rifles, cannons, shells and other items.
Don't forget the Spiller and Burr!
Yes, and no Colt did do a.44 on the 1851. Just never saw production war broke out. Yes, it was steel, not brass. Now disadvantages of the Walker I would put it over the brass. 44 as the .44 never existed
My Pietta 1851 36 cal brass frame is my nicest looking revolver I have. It has factory engraving.
my top 3 would probably be the pietta remington brass frame, then the pietta 1851 navy brass frame then the worst one would be their odd short pocket models with the non historical grips
The brass 1851 Navy in .44 is also my least favorite. Pietta must be moving them out the door or they wouldn't still be making them.
I have the 1849 pocket in 31 caliber. I have nickel plated the barrel.. cylinder and grip frame... It looks like a piece of jewelry people tell me. Also.. I use #0 buckshot for balls and with only 10 grains of powder it is the most economical BP gun there is I am also making a loading block with 5 holes that is similar to your single loading block ones in your kit. I think I can produce the paper cartridges pretty.... fairly.... sorta....rapidly LOL... Going to use a tapered reamer for the holes in the teflon block and 1/2" punch for the papers. regular size cigarette papers should work. The reason for more holes for me is because using balls the holes get sticky with glue and also have to wait for the glue to dry after seating a ball... so I figure I can make a lot more before I have to wash everything (including my hands) it is the last stage tho that I think will save waiting time seating glue covered balls is messy and they fall apart until the glue is dry. this way I can do five and by the time all are seated the first few are dry enough to pop out and then the next etc.
The other issue with the 1849 wells fargo is the weak mainspring. My 1849 pocket and my 1862 police have the same issue. Slix nipples do help quite a bit and both are still pretty fun to shoot.
I did pick up a steel frame pietta 1851 in .44 because it is kind of similiar to a prototype that colt made before the 1860. The main difference is that colt's prototype had a fluted cylinder and a round barrel. Blackie Thomas has a good video on it and even includes a photo of the prototype .44 navy.
I have a 51 round barrel in 44.
However it is the half fluted model.
@@drmachinewerke1That's pretty cool because it would look a lot more like colt's prototype. Is it a pietta?
I can’t stand shoulder stock frames! Why make them when you can’t even buy the shoulder stocks? 🤬
Dustin … a video on the pocket navy and police would be interesting … small frame with a full :) caliber charge!
Interested in where they would fit in.
I get your choice for worst.. 44 in a 51? no thanks... brass frame? not a huge fan of that idea. The whole 'neither fish nor foul' thing just does not sit right. I have an old brass frame 31 caliber that is a long barrel 1849 fantasy gun.. I gave it to my brother to start him out.
I got a 1849 pocket, its extremely similar to the wells fargo and i actually dont like it over all. I love the grip, not too bothered by 31, but the short loading lever is a pain and the springs are weak. Decent okayish gun, but lots of issues
Worst? The Pepperbox!
So your #1 is everyone's first
Lemats are so cool
What are the worst brands?
I bought that starter kit and I am sorry nice gun looks good but that brass frame is a let down lighter loads but I did fire it 12x with a 30 grain load not some thing I would do again
😊
1. Paterson. 2. Any brass frame revolver. 3. LeMat
Your worst pick is probably my favorite gun I have😅. Mainly because I love black powder guns and the black powder revolver is awesome. I knew it wasn't a quality gun when I bought it but I struggle living paycheck to paycheck and was I happy to have it.
Nothing wrong with having it and liking it, that’s for sure! It’s not one of my favorites, but it’s fun!
I just got a steel frame 1851 navy in .36 caliber. I hope it shoots good. And I need everything for it. So the fun starts. I’m more than likely going to buy the balls than cast them.
Congrats on the new revolver! Be sure to check out the store: gunsoftheweststore.com
Thanks for watching!
I have 2 of the brass framed "1851" .44's. I paid very little for them. They are older ones from the 70s and 80's. One of them the arbor was loose and the other is fine. The threads in the revolver with the loose arbor stripped the threads. It became a parts gun.
mine became a wall hanger i sold to a friend 😁
Hmmm, Although I would really like to have examples of all the Colt cap and Ball revolvers, I will say the Wells Fargo would have been one I would pick, due to the lack of a built in loading tool. The Colt Walker would be next. I don't have a horse so carrying one would be a chore. And, if it were 1847, iron would still be used to construct these mammoth pistols which was the cause of the exploding cylinders. The last is based solely on functionality and that would be the Paterson. It is not overly enjoyable to shoot. The same problems that plagued the original users are still here today in the reproductions.
Ok. The Wells Fargo wasn’t a gun fighting gun. It was a POCKET GUN. That means it was for one or two shots at CLOSE range for sudden self defense situations. I guarantee you that a shot from a .31 at arm’s distance will subdue a threat.
You broke my heart with LeMatt. I've never seen one in person, but consider it a 'super gun' of its age.
Do we have a modern, corrected version of it btw? A 9 or 10 round revolver with an extra shotgun barrel and an adjustable hammer
That's how it goes, I think it looks awesome and sounds amazing on paper... but pretty much everyone that I've seen shoot it say it's kind of a piece of junk xD
Yeah, it breaks my heart too, but my actual experiences with it made me feel that it’s not as cool as it looks.
Problem with correcting it is being cautious with legality - what with the incredibly short shotgun barrel and all. Gotta make sure it’s A-OK with a hypothetical “corrected” modern design with the ATF and all.
Their brass frame 36 is one of their best guns if you ask me.
would have to agree about the brass frame navy 44
I believe I saw an 1860 Army in .44 caliber from Pieta the other day. Would something like this be a good starter black powder revolver… Nice video and good points. Thanks much sir!
Pietta’s 1860 Army is a great choice!
@@GunsOfTheWest Thanks much Dustin, my local Cabela’s has one so considering it. BTW my name is Robert as RE:Desert_Boy.
I've heard the "myth" of the brass-framed revolvers shooting loose. I say "myth," because I've never seen one. I have an ASM 1860 Colt replica in .44 that I've had for over 35 years, has to be getting close to 40 years now. It has more shots through it than any of my other cap and ball revolvers. I've shot it for fun, I've shot it in matches, and it is still as tight as the day I built it (it was built from a CVA kit). This is my personal experience, your mileage may vary.
Truthfully, it's really only a problem with the very early replicas and originals like the Griswold and gunnison . frame stretching is misleading. The frame doesn't stretch. The gears on the back of the cylinder dig into the recoil shield from years of firing. So they are only loose at full cock and when the hammer is fully down. Modern Brass frame guns are made with an alloy thats high in zinc, making them much tougher and far more Brittle. You really can't even bend it. It will just break. But it makes a very good material to make a frame out of.
Yes. I had a pietta 1851 brass framed.44 for years and put thousands of rounds through it. Never less than 26 grains of powder behind conical bullets or 30 grains behind round balls while maintaining a tight action. And never had that elusive chain fire either.
as was said it is the star that eats into the brass that is the problem....if it happens... There are many types of brass just like any other metal. Henry uses brass frames for its lever guns and they are not problem.. their brass is considered 'gun metal brass' even so... it is not the strength but the wear factor that is 'problematic'
look on youtube it is not a MYTH
I do not own any revolvers with brass frames. Even my Remington .31 cal. is all steel. It is my least favorite because it is so small it looks like a toy.
Trade you my brass frame 1858 Buffalo Target model for it !
@@RobertWard-sb6bd Do they even make the steel frame 1858 Buffalo model anymore?
@@robertrobert7924 I'm not certain but I do know I have seen it offered in stainless steel for about $600 if I remember
@@RobertWard-sb6bd Recently or a few years ago ?
@@robertrobert7924 recently
Do they make a replacement stee frame??
I like your big smile as you share the list
I only own one cap and ball revolver, and it happens to be your #1 on the dislike list.
There’s definitely nothing wrong with having that one. You just can’t go too heavy with the loads with the brass frame. Like I said, I actually like all the revolvers on this list, so it was tough to choose three for it. Thanks for watching!
Interesting - Thanks.
Que legal 👏👏👍👍😄😄🇧🇷🇧🇷
Areeded
Yes
Well, to me the Le Matt is the best black powder revolver if you are ready to work on it a little and modify without caring about historical accuracy