Always appreciate an unbiased, second opinion. Agree with your comments on no noise, use it for high ISO shots, but not otherwise. Probably should try Canon's DPP more often to compare. Tack sharp AI is also heavy handed. Thanks.
Yea my hope is that with the new program it is less aggressive and we have the ability to turn that off and on. I do my best to be as unbiased, but I do support the company and I love the program. With that said, if there are issues with it or concerns, I will voice them.
Chris: I get the feeling you are wary of some of the AI tools in this new version. I understand why because you are about control and finesse of your images and you are very good with that. Your videos have piqued my curiosity too. I would hate to see the software doing things behind my back that I cannot change or stop. I hope you find out more details and share them. Have a great night
Hey Danny, To be fair to ON1, they have not come out and said that AI will do things without your knowledge. My only concern is the level of control that we get with each of the AI tools in the next release. If Brilliance AI is a replacement/update to AI Auto, I am good with that as long as the functionality that we had with AI Auto is still present. That is the only AI tool that I am aware of coming to the next release, which I don't think is really a new tool, it is a new way of combining all of the AI tools that were built into ON1. We will see what comes of these tools moving forward though and how Brilliance AI is integrated into the new version of the software.
Hi Chris. You mentioned that On1 is weak for macro work. Do you have a recommendation for a better approach to macro? Thanks for all you do. I really appreciate your insights.
Hey Owen when I said ON1 is weak for Macro work, I was referring to the AI masking tools. The program is great if you are good with masking, but don't expect to get an AI option using super select AI or something like that. To be honest I find Affinity Photo and Photoshop to be great options for macro work. With that said, ON1 does have the tools to edit a macro image and I will showcase that in an upcoming image, but there are some more options to blend effects in Affinity photo and Photoshop if that makes sense. I just don't want to take away from what ON1 can do for your images prematurely. Sorry if my comment came across as if you shot macro ON1 is not a good editor because that is not what I meant.
I guess we will just have to wait and see how this new version will pan out. As a very casual user who so far has not come to full understand the previous version before I upgrade. Changing things like masking etc in an overall way with the interface just sets me back each time to nearly square one. My problem I know, but from a beginner / casual user always changing things is a real negative.
Hey Mark that is a fair issue and concern with the new layout. My hope is that when the program is released, it is not too jarring to work in. I think many users will find it frustrating to have everything completely moved around and not in the same place that they have gotten familiar with it being. With that being said, I know they are looking to change the interface around to be more welcoming to new users. ON1 has received feedback that the initial browse page is too intimidating and should have less buttons and options. Even though I don't agree, I understand why they are moving to a new interface. I just ask that they allow user customization and don't lock everything down. I like making my own custom layouts in Photoshop.
I have ON1 2023 and am a Plus member, I'll wait and see if this new one is worth it because 2023 doesn't work like they said it would and I have mostly shifted back to Lightroom as there masking and denoise is pretty good, But 175.00 dollars is pretty pricey if you ask me. BTW also ON1 highlight shadow sliders are not good IMO.
That makes sense. I think a lot of people are going to be on the fence about upgrading with this version. Since I am on the subscription, I will have access to it but I will need to see how it is going to impact my overall workflow. I do hope that it really is a faster program because for me that is what drives me the craziest.
Does ON1 allow editing in the CMYK color space? If not, why not? Any serious photo editing software should be capable of handling CMYK images. By the way, changing the layout and procedure options with each new upgrade is counterproductive. Having to unlearn and relearn every time gets irritating.
I have not been able to locate a specific CMYK profile, but it does allow for Pro Photo RGB and Adobe RGB as an edit profile and as an export option. The only time that CMYK has ever become a concern for me is when I am sending an image to print and the photo lab I am using requires that profile. With that said, I use Pro Photo RGB when printing through all of my photo labs and I never had an issue with conversions. Even when I printed proofs/contact sheets and reviewed against the edited photo they looked very similar. The main difference was the luminance, which I compensate by adding 1/3rd stop of exposure when I send a photo to print. I hope this helps, but you may need to contact the ON1 support team if you have a specific need for CMYK color space. To your point of changing the interface, I would agree. Learning and unlearning is not ideal. Hopefully the layout is not too jarring for us to get familiar with.
Thank you for your response. I process images for commercial printing for my business catalog, so the CMYK is mandatory. I have always used Adobe RGB as the profile, and it seems to work fine, but are you saying Pro Photo RGB is a better color profile for editing and subsequent conversion to CMYK? Bad CMYK conversions usually show up noticeably in the muddy reds and purples. I often receive professionally scanned/photographed high resolution images as both RGB and CMYK files, and I am pleasantly surprised to find that they look almost perfectly identical. I haven't yet seem to gotten the hang of doing that successfully. @@FreeWillPhotos
No problem on the response that is what I make content for. To your question on ProPhoto RGB vs Adobe RGB I think this article explains it the best (photographylife.com/srgb-vs-adobe-rgb-vs-prophoto-rgb). The real challenge is having a monitor that can truly display the ProPhoto RGB space while editing. When I send stuff to Mpix Lab for printing, I use the ProPhoto RGB space because it leaves enough information to convert skin tones accurately. With that said, I have also used Adobe RGB early on in my portrait career and even looking at my work then and now, it is nearly impossible to tell the difference in the color space. I cannot say I get better CMYK conversions, but I can say the labs are good with it, and since I pay for color correction on each print that allows them the flexibility to correct it as well as they can. I too am still learning the mysterious world of printing, but for the past 2 years I have been using ProPhoto RGB and have not been disappointed with the results. It may be something worth testing with your work.
@@ianyorke2617 you might be sending your images as RGB, but a commercial printer will always convert to CMYK because offset printing uses CMYK inks. Jpg and Tiff are merely file formats, not color spaces. Cmyk uses Tiff.
Well let’s see what comes out about this feature officially from ON1, but based on what is on the product page and what was showcased in the video this does seem to replace the AI Auto functionality and it applies NoNoise AI, Portrait AI and local adjustments for us. Now you always have the ability turn this tool on or off, but I look forward to the sneak peak videos that ON1 is going to release on this tool.
Hi Will, I’m not a fan of Brilliance AI. It’s too heavy handed and the results look surreal out of the box. It does weird things like reducing the color temperature on bodies of water. I find that instead of editing that I’m spending time correcting its results. Plus, I don’t like how masking creates a menu that lays right on top of the image. While they did fix highlights, the program still creates weird artifacts and halos on high contrast edges. I like ON1, but I sure wish they had spent the time on fixing issues rather that foisting more AI in places where it doesn’t belong.
Dave thank you for the comment and and I understand that Brilliance AI is a little heavy handed. I have come to the realization that the local adjustments created by Brilliance AI are not any good, and have deactivated them in the menus. I have also found that working with 70% of the total amount gives me a good result. The color aspect is really warm, but usually by pulling the color slider down things work out for my images. What I have been hearing a lot of is that Brilliance AI is working differently with certain file types. On my Nikon and Canon files, my images seem to be coming out just fine, but if you are using an iPhone DNG file, there are reports of the files being tented. I do agree that ON1 should focus more on improving the smaller things with the program and move away from AI driven things because their offerings are less effective than the competition, but that is the direction the company is going unfortunately. We will see where the 2024.5 update goes in the spring time frame. Hopefully it is more focused on adding tools like Gradient Maps, something similar to LrC's "Point Color" and a more refined Brilliance AI. I only mention Brilliance AI because it is part of 2024 regardless if we like it or not. We can only hope that it gets better.
I suspect there is confusion with what it is that "AI" means. Its functionality guided by machine learning and a starting point not a destination, especially for fine masking. Once folks get their head around that then I suspect the whining will die down.
I agree! I think a lot of people expect the AI Masking to do all of the work for them, and in some cases, it may. Most of the time the AI mask just gives us a really good place to start working the image, and then adding a style to it. What would be cool is to see Brilliance AI turn into the capability that IMAGIN AI is doing with LrC catalogs. if we can get to something like that, I think we would really be moving in the right direction. I feel like ON1 has the ability to pull this off.
Please! This company should be ashamed of themselves for offering a FIX as a new pay for version! The last version is severely flawed and useless due to its absurd slow function. That should have been FIXED vs trying to screw their customers for 160.00!!! I’ll stick with the king on the block PS to avoid this greed!
I won’t disagree that this version comes with a lot of fixes from previous versions. The good news is that you have a solid editor. I hope it continues to work for you!
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Always appreciate an unbiased, second opinion. Agree with your comments on no noise, use it for high ISO shots, but not otherwise. Probably should try Canon's DPP more often to compare. Tack sharp AI is also heavy handed. Thanks.
Yea my hope is that with the new program it is less aggressive and we have the ability to turn that off and on. I do my best to be as unbiased, but I do support the company and I love the program. With that said, if there are issues with it or concerns, I will voice them.
Chris: I get the feeling you are wary of some of the AI tools in this new version. I understand why because you are about control and finesse of your images and you are very good with that. Your videos have piqued my curiosity too. I would hate to see the software doing things behind my back that I cannot change or stop. I hope you find out more details and share them. Have a great night
Hey Danny,
To be fair to ON1, they have not come out and said that AI will do things without your knowledge. My only concern is the level of control that we get with each of the AI tools in the next release. If Brilliance AI is a replacement/update to AI Auto, I am good with that as long as the functionality that we had with AI Auto is still present. That is the only AI tool that I am aware of coming to the next release, which I don't think is really a new tool, it is a new way of combining all of the AI tools that were built into ON1. We will see what comes of these tools moving forward though and how Brilliance AI is integrated into the new version of the software.
Hi Chris. You mentioned that On1 is weak for macro work. Do you have a recommendation for a better approach to macro? Thanks for all you do. I really appreciate your insights.
Hey Owen when I said ON1 is weak for Macro work, I was referring to the AI masking tools. The program is great if you are good with masking, but don't expect to get an AI option using super select AI or something like that. To be honest I find Affinity Photo and Photoshop to be great options for macro work. With that said, ON1 does have the tools to edit a macro image and I will showcase that in an upcoming image, but there are some more options to blend effects in Affinity photo and Photoshop if that makes sense. I just don't want to take away from what ON1 can do for your images prematurely. Sorry if my comment came across as if you shot macro ON1 is not a good editor because that is not what I meant.
@@FreeWillPhotos Thanks, Chris. Makes perfect sense. I'd love to see you do an episode on macro; it's a special case.
I guess we will just have to wait and see how this new version will pan out.
As a very casual user who so far has not come to full understand the previous version before I upgrade. Changing things like masking etc in an overall way with the interface just sets me back each time to nearly square one.
My problem I know, but from a beginner / casual user always changing things is a real negative.
Hey Mark that is a fair issue and concern with the new layout. My hope is that when the program is released, it is not too jarring to work in. I think many users will find it frustrating to have everything completely moved around and not in the same place that they have gotten familiar with it being. With that being said, I know they are looking to change the interface around to be more welcoming to new users. ON1 has received feedback that the initial browse page is too intimidating and should have less buttons and options. Even though I don't agree, I understand why they are moving to a new interface. I just ask that they allow user customization and don't lock everything down. I like making my own custom layouts in Photoshop.
ON1 have added a sneak peek video for the new UI. Looks very good in my opinion.
I have ON1 2023 and am a Plus member, I'll wait and see if this new one is worth it because 2023 doesn't work like they said it would and I have mostly shifted back to Lightroom as there masking and denoise is pretty good, But 175.00 dollars is pretty pricey if you ask me. BTW also ON1 highlight shadow sliders are not good IMO.
That makes sense. I think a lot of people are going to be on the fence about upgrading with this version. Since I am on the subscription, I will have access to it but I will need to see how it is going to impact my overall workflow. I do hope that it really is a faster program because for me that is what drives me the craziest.
@@FreeWillPhotos Well ON1 2023 said it was faster too but it wasn't.
True. We will see what happens in the fall with the software is released.
Does ON1 allow editing in the CMYK color space? If not, why not? Any serious photo editing software should be capable of handling CMYK images. By the way, changing the layout and procedure options with each new upgrade is counterproductive. Having to unlearn and relearn every time gets irritating.
I have not been able to locate a specific CMYK profile, but it does allow for Pro Photo RGB and Adobe RGB as an edit profile and as an export option. The only time that CMYK has ever become a concern for me is when I am sending an image to print and the photo lab I am using requires that profile. With that said, I use Pro Photo RGB when printing through all of my photo labs and I never had an issue with conversions. Even when I printed proofs/contact sheets and reviewed against the edited photo they looked very similar. The main difference was the luminance, which I compensate by adding 1/3rd stop of exposure when I send a photo to print. I hope this helps, but you may need to contact the ON1 support team if you have a specific need for CMYK color space.
To your point of changing the interface, I would agree. Learning and unlearning is not ideal. Hopefully the layout is not too jarring for us to get familiar with.
Thank you for your response. I process images for commercial printing for my business catalog, so the CMYK is mandatory. I have always used Adobe RGB as the profile, and it seems to work fine, but are you saying Pro Photo RGB is a better color profile for editing and subsequent conversion to CMYK? Bad CMYK conversions usually show up noticeably in the muddy reds and purples. I often receive professionally scanned/photographed high resolution images as both RGB and CMYK files, and I am pleasantly surprised to find that they look almost perfectly identical. I haven't yet seem to gotten the hang of doing that successfully. @@FreeWillPhotos
No problem on the response that is what I make content for. To your question on ProPhoto RGB vs Adobe RGB I think this article explains it the best (photographylife.com/srgb-vs-adobe-rgb-vs-prophoto-rgb). The real challenge is having a monitor that can truly display the ProPhoto RGB space while editing. When I send stuff to Mpix Lab for printing, I use the ProPhoto RGB space because it leaves enough information to convert skin tones accurately. With that said, I have also used Adobe RGB early on in my portrait career and even looking at my work then and now, it is nearly impossible to tell the difference in the color space. I cannot say I get better CMYK conversions, but I can say the labs are good with it, and since I pay for color correction on each print that allows them the flexibility to correct it as well as they can. I too am still learning the mysterious world of printing, but for the past 2 years I have been using ProPhoto RGB and have not been disappointed with the results. It may be something worth testing with your work.
What is your use case for CMYK editing? I have always edited in RGB and sent images for printing as jpg or Tif.
@@ianyorke2617 you might be sending your images as RGB, but a commercial printer will always convert to CMYK because offset printing uses CMYK inks. Jpg and Tiff are merely file formats, not color spaces. Cmyk uses Tiff.
I'm not sure I will like this up date, if what you are suggesting is true. I want that control of my photo. I've been using ON-1 since 2018.
Well let’s see what comes out about this feature officially from ON1, but based on what is on the product page and what was showcased in the video this does seem to replace the AI Auto functionality and it applies NoNoise AI, Portrait AI and local adjustments for us. Now you always have the ability turn this tool on or off, but I look forward to the sneak peak videos that ON1 is going to release on this tool.
You will have complete control, simply don't activate Brilliance AI. They can't make you use it 😀
Hi Will, I’m not a fan of Brilliance AI. It’s too heavy handed and the results look surreal out of the box. It does weird things like reducing the color temperature on bodies of water. I find that instead of editing that I’m spending time correcting its results.
Plus, I don’t like how masking creates a menu that lays right on top of the image. While they did fix highlights, the program still creates weird artifacts and halos on high contrast edges.
I like ON1, but I sure wish they had spent the time on fixing issues rather that foisting more AI in places where it doesn’t belong.
Dave thank you for the comment and and I understand that Brilliance AI is a little heavy handed. I have come to the realization that the local adjustments created by Brilliance AI are not any good, and have deactivated them in the menus. I have also found that working with 70% of the total amount gives me a good result. The color aspect is really warm, but usually by pulling the color slider down things work out for my images.
What I have been hearing a lot of is that Brilliance AI is working differently with certain file types. On my Nikon and Canon files, my images seem to be coming out just fine, but if you are using an iPhone DNG file, there are reports of the files being tented. I do agree that ON1 should focus more on improving the smaller things with the program and move away from AI driven things because their offerings are less effective than the competition, but that is the direction the company is going unfortunately. We will see where the 2024.5 update goes in the spring time frame. Hopefully it is more focused on adding tools like Gradient Maps, something similar to LrC's "Point Color" and a more refined Brilliance AI. I only mention Brilliance AI because it is part of 2024 regardless if we like it or not. We can only hope that it gets better.
I suspect there is confusion with what it is that "AI" means. Its functionality guided by machine learning and a starting point not a destination, especially for fine masking. Once folks get their head around that then I suspect the whining will die down.
I agree! I think a lot of people expect the AI Masking to do all of the work for them, and in some cases, it may. Most of the time the AI mask just gives us a really good place to start working the image, and then adding a style to it. What would be cool is to see Brilliance AI turn into the capability that IMAGIN AI is doing with LrC catalogs. if we can get to something like that, I think we would really be moving in the right direction. I feel like ON1 has the ability to pull this off.
Please! This company should be ashamed of themselves for offering a FIX as a new pay for version! The last version is severely flawed and useless due to its absurd slow function. That should have been FIXED vs trying to screw their customers for 160.00!!! I’ll stick with the king on the block PS to avoid this greed!
I won’t disagree that this version comes with a lot of fixes from previous versions. The good news is that you have a solid editor. I hope it continues to work for you!