She Killed Him Pt 1 Star Trek Lower Decks

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  • Опубліковано 16 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 174

  • @OmniGundam777
    @OmniGundam777 Рік тому +519

    I LOVE the fact that Shax immediately points out that they are in completely different circumstances compared to voyager. What Janeway did was morally dubious, yes, but considering they were stranded hard decisions had to be made, and she chose to restore 2 crew members at the expense of 1. They don’t have to do that.

    • @Fayanora
      @Fayanora Рік тому +15

      The needs of the many...

    • @AzureSkyCiel
      @AzureSkyCiel Рік тому +74

      Ironically, the different circumstances also played against them. T'ana is already combative and cynical, combined with Billups' neurosis and far more fearful mindset, it created someone who was quite paranoid and refused to listen.

    • @landonletterman831
      @landonletterman831 Рік тому +14

      Technically, they only really need their medical scans, and the teleporter logs.
      Bare in mind, when teleporting, every one of your atoms is scanned, remembered, energized, beamed to a new location, reassembled from the computers _memory,_ and the converted from energy back into matter.
      More than just atoms, though, that computer needs a detailed scan of the chemical engrams in your brain (or else, every transport, you show up with a _human_ brain, but not *_YOUR_* brain)
      Basic fix to this is to capture the scan logues, use them with their most recent medical scan on file, and rebuild the two people with a large enough replicator and the requisite biomass.
      Truthfully, there's nothing stopping _that_ from being the best/fastest method of cloning, in the galaxy. - Boom - Exact copy of you - Boom - Exact copy of you

    • @kevinhart8339
      @kevinhart8339 11 місяців тому +2

      Janeway brought back her friend Tuvok and her Chief of Security

    • @kbanghart
      @kbanghart 8 місяців тому

      ​@@kevinhart8339and fixed an accident

  • @Osterbaum
    @Osterbaum 6 місяців тому +110

    First time when Freeman says "No, she just murdered him!" I laughed out loud. This episode handled revisiting this part of Voyager history well I think. Watching Voyager I always knew I would've made the same choice Janeway did but I've also always known that they basically killed an individual for it. But it's a fair point that since they aren't stranded in the Delta quadrant that they could afford to pursue other options first.

    • @afd1040
      @afd1040 3 місяці тому +1

      I never understood killed an individual part , like he lives on with them by tuvix's logic

    • @yucol5661
      @yucol5661 3 місяці тому +4

      Could jutst have cloned him and split the left over Tuvix. Boom, three individual crew members with unique personalities left!

    • @EtruskenRaider
      @EtruskenRaider 10 днів тому

      “He begged her to live!” 😅

  • @kevlonk
    @kevlonk 7 місяців тому +212

    'I'm sure Janeway had a solution to this."
    Voyager fans: *nervous laughter*

    • @gsamalot
      @gsamalot 4 місяці тому +12

      Yeaaaaah there a reason janeway does not talk alot about her adventures when her ship was lost

  • @JohnPeacekeeper
    @JohnPeacekeeper Рік тому +312

    "Janeway didn't mess around."
    No, no she did not. Actually, looking at Prodigy Season 1 and 2, she STILL doesn't mess around.

    • @ThaFriendsZone
      @ThaFriendsZone  Рік тому +13

      Uh, which Janeway? Holo-Janeway or Admiral Janeway?

    • @JohnPeacekeeper
      @JohnPeacekeeper Рік тому +25

      @@ThaFriendsZone Think it was more Holo-Janeway sincr she thought of the "clean house" solution, that and Admiral Janeway mellowed down a bit after she got a clear picture

    • @captaintalon4485
      @captaintalon4485 Рік тому +16

      ​@@ThaFriendsZoneShort answer...yes

    • @TheMGSlow
      @TheMGSlow 7 місяців тому +5

      As they say, there is the right way, the wrong way and the Janeway.

    • @stephenbyrne2170
      @stephenbyrne2170 6 місяців тому

      Are you being sarcastic?

  • @landonletterman831
    @landonletterman831 Рік тому +53

    Love the jaunty walk they give Neelix, lol

  • @victorialawhon2251
    @victorialawhon2251 4 місяці тому +22

    Omg the "Are you chewing gum???" got me because I work in a museum and gum is the worst.

  • @Blasted2Oblivion
    @Blasted2Oblivion Рік тому +288

    I feel like there is a simple solution to this.
    1. Sedate the Tuvixed person.
    2. Make a transporter duplicate.
    3. Separate one of the transporter duplicates before the sedation wears off.
    You get to have your two people back, the Tuvixed person gets to live, and the duplicate that is killed off was never even aware of its own existence so it reduces the morality issues significantly.

    • @kargaroc386
      @kargaroc386 Рік тому +118

      The multi-track drifting solution to the Tuvix trolley problem.

    • @matthewcaughey8898
      @matthewcaughey8898 Рік тому +8

      That’s actually a not so janeway fix to a problem that shouldn’t have existed

    • @ericwilliams1659
      @ericwilliams1659 Рік тому +20

      I have never understood why more people were not "duplicated." Even if in secret, star trek can alter memories and faces. Imagine just instantly producing hundreds if not thousands of troops from one single run about.

    • @dungeonguy88
      @dungeonguy88 Рік тому +26

      If the Tuvixed individual hadn't panicked and set off a series of events that lead to a bunch of people becoming a non-sentient blob of people, that probably would be something they tried.
      As explored in the show, Janeway was isolated and few options. Safely in Federation space, they could have brought into the resources and minds to successfully solve the issue.

    • @Blasted2Oblivion
      @Blasted2Oblivion Рік тому +3

      @@ericwilliams1659 We may have never seen it canonically but it isn't unreasonably to assume that S31 at least experimented with it.

  • @Brasswatchman
    @Brasswatchman Рік тому +76

    Got to hand it them. Ti'illips worked out a pretty decent strategy here.

    • @joeswanson733
      @joeswanson733 Рік тому

      ti'llips is evil he tried to creat more transporter hybrids.

    • @jordanloux3883
      @jordanloux3883 Рік тому +11

      @@joeswanson733 Ti'illips was scared and thought he was going to die... also he's half T'ana so he's gotta be feeling pretty cranky as it is.

  • @Igarappappa
    @Igarappappa 7 днів тому +1

    I like that while Shaxs clearly wants T'ana back, he's not advocating they kill Tillups to do so. Shows he's not kill crazy or heartless.

  • @garethspotfur1
    @garethspotfur1 11 місяців тому +15

    what this shows is they should have set voyager to self destruct once all was settled, INSTEAD of bringing it to earth. that cursed hulk is a deathship.

  • @christophercrafte
    @christophercrafte Рік тому +57

    the easy answer would be to transporter-clone them while splitting them up.

    • @ixaldorran7867
      @ixaldorran7867 Рік тому +3

      Still be murdering a person tho. The clone would their own individual. It's an easy answer but still has the same ethical problem.

    • @christophercrafte
      @christophercrafte Рік тому +2

      @@ixaldorran7867 technically yes tech technically no. Specifically when the transporter turns you to energy to spawn you in it needs to essentially take its stored data and clone you. So once they were beamed in you could separate them like they planned while also spawning the clone.

    • @doppelrutsch9540
      @doppelrutsch9540 Рік тому +1

      @@ixaldorran7867 I would say it depends on how long they had an independent experience. If it's just patterns in the transporter buffer that are getting duplicated and split there never is any individual that experiences "dying".

    • @EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts
      @EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts Рік тому

      That's just killing more people. But then again, every transport is murder, so 🤷‍♂️

    • @seekingabsolution1907
      @seekingabsolution1907 Рік тому

      Yes, it would be a simple matter of deliberately recreating two entirely seperate once in a blue moon transporter accidents and mashing them together.

  • @EvelynNdenial
    @EvelynNdenial Рік тому +40

    she enjoys accurate labels? T'lyn is out of control

    • @HCBailly
      @HCBailly 11 місяців тому +8

      That's what I love about T'Lyn's character. She sounds like a normal, mature adult, able to express emotion. Most Vulcans sound like they don't even have the maturity of a 6-year old without even a basic understanding of how emotions work.

  • @owo5002
    @owo5002 Рік тому +54

    2:20 😂😂😂😂😂😂 GOD his face

    • @Brasswatchman
      @Brasswatchman Рік тому +8

      Their face, maybe? Tuvixing makes pronouns quite the puzzle.

    • @mnf2139
      @mnf2139 Рік тому +3

      ​@Brasswatchman regardless, could you imagine how awkward it would have been to have naughty memories with someone you love?

    • @Death2all546
      @Death2all546 11 місяців тому +1

      @@mnf2139don’t forget, half of Tilips is somebody else entirely.
      From their perspective, imagine gaining somebody else’s memories then being asked that same question.

    • @Darlf_Sevil
      @Darlf_Sevil 9 місяців тому +2

      2:24 is much better

  • @daniels7907
    @daniels7907 11 місяців тому +60

    Notice that Janeway's logs aren't already stored in the Cerritos computer and Freeman has to specifically request them from the curator? How much you wanna bet Starfleet did that to cover up the bloody swathe of chaos and death that she carved across the Delta Quadrant? Future Starfleet missions to the Delta Quadrant will almost certainly be diplomacy focused, as they try to convince the locals that not all Starfleet captains are evil Queens hyped up on too much caffeine and a little too willing to make alliances with the Borg.

    • @jordanloux3883
      @jordanloux3883 11 місяців тому +8

      Seriously, she's the best Anti-Starfleet propaganda out there.

    • @calmsquirrel7124
      @calmsquirrel7124 9 місяців тому +2

      One of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever heard

    • @daniels7907
      @daniels7907 9 місяців тому +1

      @@calmsquirrel7124 - Did you see everyone on the Cerritos's reaction to what she did to Tuvix?

    • @calmsquirrel7124
      @calmsquirrel7124 9 місяців тому +1

      @@daniels7907 I haven’t watched lower decks but I think what she did to tuvix was justified

    • @Alexander-wx2ie
      @Alexander-wx2ie 5 місяців тому +1

      May I introduce you to Star Trek Online.... Fortunately for Star fleet they arrive in the middle of a war and the Romulans (Long story) and the Klingons were there to help with the mess.
      Also Nelix passed the last 30 years trying to set the record straight.

  • @Darlf_Sevil
    @Darlf_Sevil 9 місяців тому +6

    2:24 oh yes i love that part

  • @koshi6505
    @koshi6505 10 місяців тому +9

    I love that Lower Decks called it like it way and doesn't try to excuse Janeway for her crime.

    • @antonbrakhage490
      @antonbrakhage490 9 місяців тому +4

      Yup. I'm not usually a Janeway basher, but that was flat-out murder of a sapient being, and she honestly should have been court-martialled for it on return to Earth. But I guess crippling the Borg on the way home is enough to make Starfleet overlook some things.

    • @calmsquirrel7124
      @calmsquirrel7124 9 місяців тому +1

      @@antonbrakhage490I disagree, kneelix and Tuvok wouldn’t have want that to be their fate, the needs of the few dont outweigh the needs of the many

    • @kbanghart
      @kbanghart 8 місяців тому +1

      ​@@antonbrakhage490nah. She killed him, but it wasn't unlawful, she corrected an accident.

    • @antonbrakhage490
      @antonbrakhage490 8 місяців тому +4

      @@kbanghart She killed a sapient being against their will. There isn't really a perfect real world parallel to someone being Tuvixed, so its hard to make a comparison, but I get real edgy when people justify killing other people using dehumanizing language (ie, "accident").

    • @kbanghart
      @kbanghart 8 місяців тому

      @@antonbrakhage490 edgy ooooo 😱
      I never claimed it wasn't against his will. I also didn't say she didn't kill him. I just said it wasn't unlawful.

  • @spyrofan9681
    @spyrofan9681 18 днів тому

    I love Shaxs trying to grab the Doc and the Captain before they transport, like would that even work?

  • @ChrisCooper312
    @ChrisCooper312 10 місяців тому +1

    I think there is something clever about the fact that a show from "the twenties" likes to make references to "the 70s", "the 80s" etc, given the fact that not only do those terms mean very different things in universe and out, "the twenties" means something different now and in the future.

  • @Sigurd_87
    @Sigurd_87 2 місяці тому

    "You know she stright up murdered Tuvix right?"

  • @ShanaReviews
    @ShanaReviews 11 місяців тому +4

    ah crap a Code Tuvix

  • @filippofittipaldi8050
    @filippofittipaldi8050 Рік тому +23

    I never felt separating Tuvix back to Tuvok and Neelix as killing Tuvix. I saw it like factoring a number. But I'm glad others see it as problem. This made for a hilarious espisode. 😂

    • @AlexanderVonish
      @AlexanderVonish 5 місяців тому +5

      Well then that’s certainly a demoralizing way to get the crew’s opinion of you if you consider the splitting of a live, sentient, begging-to-live, organism as merely factoring a number instead of the moral conundrum it is to these people.

    • @georgeghleung
      @georgeghleung 3 місяці тому +1

      @@AlexanderVonish Star Trek failed to talk about a splinter group of Human. I always wish that one of the conflict where humans - truly share ancestry of United Earth, decided that the Federation ideal is stupid, and grow strong enough to challenge them.

  • @aclevername7613
    @aclevername7613 Місяць тому

    morally it is the right thing to do. by not splitting them your condeming and being ok wiht the death of the two that were merged when they should be brought back as they had no choice in merging and fading.

  • @baileylarsen9439
    @baileylarsen9439 9 місяців тому

    Is reminds me of that weird Garfield movie. The one with the super hero’s, and the body swap zombies.

  • @ObviouslyNotXenrek
    @ObviouslyNotXenrek Рік тому +29

    question i never thought of til now; we know transporters can create clones right? Like Riker and so many others.
    If killing the combined entity is "bad", why not create a transporter clone and diffuse one of those clones into the constituent members, while preserving the combined entity

    • @slashharkiri4581
      @slashharkiri4581 Рік тому +9

      Transporter Clones are also still sentient people, so you still have the exact same problem.
      The solution i suppose would be to somehow deliberately cause a Transporter clone situation wherein 3 people come out the other end: the Tuvix'd individual, and both their original parts.

    • @ObviouslyNotXenrek
      @ObviouslyNotXenrek Рік тому

      @@slashharkiri4581 that's what I'm saying yeah, put the combined one in the buffer, then create recreate the individuals by deconstructing a copy of the buffer pattern so that 3 come out the other end.
      Tho let's be honest, no one survives being atomized, turned to energy, rearranged in a computer, then reassembled, they're all clones

    • @bosstowndynamics5488
      @bosstowndynamics5488 Рік тому +1

      ​@@slashharkiri4581If you could deliberately create the circumstances that makes transporter clones you could do the Janeway thing at the same time - the Tuvixed individual remains behind and the original people come out the other end. The only reason Janeway's fix was murder was because Tuvix never got reconstituted on the other end, but if they're never disassembled in the first place it's all sorted.

    • @bloglazer9410
      @bloglazer9410 Рік тому

      @@bosstowndynamics5488 ... that still basically lobotomizing someone. face it there a reason why Janeway didn't have ALOT of option back in delta quadrant.

    • @6611nitro
      @6611nitro Рік тому

      Eh, same moral problem since you are still killing a sapient being but could be worked around by splitting a clone of them while in transport before they ever gain consciousness.

  • @SD-vy7gj
    @SD-vy7gj 3 місяці тому

    I love how the tuvix situation is like a fan and a janeway hater arguing online.
    Janeway murdered him!
    They where stranded in the delta quadrant!

  • @gerardorodriguez7500
    @gerardorodriguez7500 4 місяці тому

    This is the most messed up Fusion

  • @gerardorodriguez7500
    @gerardorodriguez7500 4 місяці тому

    They didn’t say anything about the flower in Voyager

  • @andrewshearsby8125
    @andrewshearsby8125 2 місяці тому

    If only they had a way to duplicate someone in the transporters (joking sarcasm)

  • @Alverant
    @Alverant 4 місяці тому

    Riker had a transporter clone, why not Tuvix?

  • @Blutteufel
    @Blutteufel 9 місяців тому +6

    Janeway made the right decision. This is indisputable.

  • @Iceflkn
    @Iceflkn Рік тому +7

    Anyone notice the moral problem of Rutherford trying to, "kill" his younger self? Talk about a, "Tuvix" situation!
    Also, why doesn't Shaxs get his eye replaced or does he ENJOY being half blind??

    • @aguyhere7945
      @aguyhere7945 Рік тому +16

      On DS9 there was an episode that involved a Bajoran guy who lost his arm rescuing Kira back in their resistance days. Federation doctors offered to replace it for him, but he decided to not do it because he offered up his life to the Prophets in exchange for rescuing Kira and he believed the Prophets had decided to only take his arm instead of his life. Shax might be doing something similar.

    • @jordanloux3883
      @jordanloux3883 11 місяців тому +2

      In Rutherford's case it was more antagonistic with neither wanting to be replaced. And after they had time to talk he was begging his younger self to hold on so they could a new body for him, but Young Sam chose to let go because he saw his older self had the happiness that always eluded him.

    • @crimsoncrusader4829
      @crimsoncrusader4829 2 місяці тому

      @@jordanloux3883 Rutherford want to do a personality merge, but the young sam rejected it.

  • @demiserofd
    @demiserofd 11 місяців тому +1

    This exact scenario already exists irl; if someone is mentally disturbed, or on drugs, they are judged incapable of making rational decisions and remanded to custody of someone else.
    A tuvix is essentially two people who have been mentally compromised/drugged. It's not murder to take someone off drugs, even if it completely changes their personality as a result.

    • @coffeelich5003
      @coffeelich5003 11 місяців тому +3

      They're still a wholly sentient being that proves themselves capable at their job and expresses a will to day the way they are. They don't struggle with identity nearly as much as if it were two brains in one body fighting for control. It's a new person, albeit created unconventionalally. I disagree that this is like being on drugs.

    • @demiserofd
      @demiserofd 11 місяців тому +1

      @@coffeelich5003 Who says someone on drugs can't be competent? Stephen King wrote the entirety of Cujo while high on cocaine, and literally has no memory of writing it. Was that written by a completely different person?

    • @coffeelich5003
      @coffeelich5003 11 місяців тому +1

      @demiserofd I guess the distinction here is "did drug induced Mr. King" express interest in keeping his own existence constant and was it a wholly separate consciousness from Stephen himself. Also, drugs wearing off is not a conscious decision, but separating a merged being is, so there's more moral implication behind the action.

    • @demiserofd
      @demiserofd 11 місяців тому

      @@coffeelich5003 Most people on drugs are very invested in staying on drugs. The fact normal drugs wear off doesn't really change the metaphor, though.

    • @antonbrakhage490
      @antonbrakhage490 6 місяців тому

      That is a hell of a lot of drastic rationalizing, not to mention your analogy is extreme ablism for arguing that someone who is "mentally disturbed" (a hell of a broad/vague term) automatically loses all rights to freedom of choice, bodily autonomy, and even life. And honestly makes me wonder how many people who defend Janeway's decision would be down with extreme human rights abuses in real life. Reported for hate speech.

  • @HCBailly
    @HCBailly 11 місяців тому

    Why would not being in the Delta Quadrant matter? You still have to decide whether to leave them fused together or not. The only way I could think it would matter is if you could create a transporter clone and separate the two from that one, but that usually involves very specific circumstances that are impossible to create at will. You can't just take a pill and make the problem go away.

    • @HelloThere734
      @HelloThere734 11 місяців тому +6

      More resources at their disposal, more professionals to talk to, more opinions to consult and find a “moral” solution here where everything looks good, and most importantly, if a tough choice needs to be made, you can leave it to someone else to make the choice, and if that choice is to get both back, then you can say your hands are clean, while if the choice is to leave them as one person, you can argue for more research to be done.

    • @jordanloux3883
      @jordanloux3883 10 місяців тому +3

      Being in the Delta Quadrant mattered because they were alone on a ship with limited power and not enough crew. They HAD to 'kill' Tuvix because without Tuvok they lacked the necessary man they needed to get back home alive.
      But being back home, they can talk to other people and find another solution to this situation without any easy answers. Janeway didn't have that.

    • @blacksage2375
      @blacksage2375 10 місяців тому +4

      Because they can literally do what they did with The Dog and Boimler, call in the Section 14 experts and have 'em chill at the Farm while someone figures out how to reconfigure a pattern buffer to make 1 divide into 3.

  • @Overlord24
    @Overlord24 7 місяців тому

    Love our gunho captain but she has a nasty habit of saying I instead of we like she is the only capable person on the ship. Well like mother like Daughter, Means well but thinks she knows best. Mother knows best like a 50's tv show

  • @TheIllusiveMan11
    @TheIllusiveMan11 Рік тому +31

    "Send me a copy of Janeway's logs"
    Errm...wouldn't you want to see the Doctor's logs? It was him that designed the procedure to separate the pair. Or better yet, why not just call in the Doctor? Even if he's a ways away, He's a hologram. You can transmit him to your ship easily.
    "It's called being Tuvixed"
    I do not believe for one second that the highly scientific and rational organization that is Starfleet would call it being fucking Tuvixed. When someone's murdered we don't called it being 'Cain & Abled.' When you take Penicillin you aren't 'Flemminging'. There must have been a better, more scientific name they could use.

    • @bloglazer9410
      @bloglazer9410 Рік тому +24

      Dude, alot of stuff in real life have stupid ass names, take the Dongle. And stsarfleet can be highly stupid at time, like Beaming The Entire Crew Down To A Planet...With A Planet Killer Nearby ALA Commodore Matt Decker.

    • @TheIllusiveMan11
      @TheIllusiveMan11 Рік тому +5

      @@bloglazer9410 And how many of those stupid names are official scientific names? Plus I just realized, there IS a more scientific name for what happened with Tuvix. Symbiogenesis. It's the term they use on Voyager, so there is literally no reason for them to call it 'Tuvixing'

    • @bloglazer9410
      @bloglazer9410 Рік тому +18

      @@TheIllusiveMan11 (Pulls eyes glasses) Turdus maximus (Scientific name of the Tibetan Blackbird), Penguinone (Penguinone is an organic compound with the molecular formula C ₁₀H ₁₄O. Its name comes from the fact that its 2-dimensional molecular structure resembles a penguin), Cummingtonite ( a magnesium-iron silicate hydroxide metamorphic amphibole mineral). Piloerection (The technical term for goosebump).
      I honestly have more, but I think you get my point.

    • @TheIllusiveMan11
      @TheIllusiveMan11 Рік тому +4

      @@bloglazer9410 I feel like changing one word in one line of dialogue from 'Tuvixing' to 'Symbiogenesis', a word that was already used in Voyager, ain't too big of an ask to make it seem less dumb.

    • @vylbird8014
      @vylbird8014 Рік тому +28

      Have you worked in the tech field? These are people who seriously classify processor architectures as "big-endian" and "little-endian" depending on their byte order for integer representation, in reference to an eighteenth-century satirical novel. Half a byte is called a nibble, unwanted junk messages are called spam - inspired by an old sketch by Monty Python, the same British comedy group for which the Python programming language is named. Someone invented a new pointing device back in the 60s, decided the wire poking out from it looked like a tail, and called it a mouse. In networking we have such terms as 'bogon packets' and 'martian.' Engineers would absolutely name this scenario 'being Tuvixed.'

  • @shadowofbosstown
    @shadowofbosstown 3 місяці тому

    Gfys

  • @wonttakemein272
    @wonttakemein272 4 місяці тому

    I would want my gf(?) back and friend I could care less about the homunculus and its feelings

  • @Gnarkson
    @Gnarkson 10 місяців тому +1

    What a trash show

    • @kbanghart
      @kbanghart 8 місяців тому +2

      It's comedy. Looks pretty funny to me

    • @TheLexoDex
      @TheLexoDex 5 місяців тому +3

      Wrong. It’s hilarious