I agree about Dorian, I think he’s the biggest wildcard in this division, he hasn’t shown to be on the level of some of the top guys in the division yet, but on paper he has the skill set and attributes to beat any of them.
Yeah he’s definitely an interesting one to have in the mix, really looking forward to watching him at adcc after seeing what he did to some big names at trials! - Calum
The brackets will be very interesting. All the top seeds must be desperate to avoid him. Even if Dorian loses it will probably take a massive effort to beat him, which will deplete the battery of the winner. I’m really looking forward to seeing him and the chaos he brings. - Ross
@@JiuJitsuOracle-lz9yfyeah that’s a good point, I remember in the old daisy fresh documentary’s they said everyone dreaded drawing a daisy’s fresh guy in their division because even if they were to win it would take a massive effort and deplete them for later matches, same with Dorian.
I’m biased bc I’ve trained with him but he’s so focus and outworks everyone he’s also well rounded he can hang with anybody at any position I have him winning 100%
@@JiuJitsuOracle-lz9yf absolutely that’s half of what cobrinha drills into us he’s also got a great team and they study and tailor their training to the opponents. He’s constantly doing timing drills also
Agree. I think Kennedy is A, potential for S. Their discussion on some matches could’ve gone either way is how it is with the top tiers. The fact that he keeps his head in those big spots and does get those wins says a lot about his training room. It can’t always be a blow out. Further, he has the one coach (except for maybe Pato) that’s been there before and many times at that.
Thanks for your take. Can definitely make a case for putting all those guys up a tier. I think with Gabriel Souza we just know that he has the capability to make it to the final and has a good skillset for adcc. However I can understand your reasoning based on for the past while.
I think this indicates two things - One, that Brazilians are on average smaller so they have a larger pool of small fighters, which helps expand that extreme corner of the bell curve. Two, that Brazilians continue to have a perceived mystique around them even though champions and average placements increasingly favor other countries with every passing year. That said, Pato is incredible and I think he takes it pretty convincingly this year.
Brazil does very well at all weight classes. In the higher divisions; +99 has Honorio, Gutemberg, Pena, Vinny and Roosevelt. -99 is even stronger with Kaynan, Meregali, Gaudio, Braz, Cyborg and Cardoso. That said, Brazil looks their strongest at -66. I don't think there's a "perceived mystique" around Brazil. The sport is growing globally and contenders are emerging from other countries as the talent pool grows. - Ross
I don’t think Kennedy can be one of the favourites, which is S-tier, when Baby Shark and Pato are there. That’s the final we expect. Being A-tier we think Kennedy has a decent-good chance and I think that’s fair. He’s not a former ADCC champ, his best result was 2nd in 2019. He’s had a great year, he’s a threat to go all the way, but not a favourite for me. - Ross
I think the debate would he be high A, or make S. Instinctively I'd go high A. Yes, his form is great, he passes the eye test and has aura. But his recent strength of schedule isn't hugely strong and there are questions over how he'd do under ADCC rules/scoring with more emphasis on rewarding wrestling. - Ross
In this ruleset, I think Dorian can beat all of these guys. His hardest matchup stylistically is Pato imo . We saw that Fabricio was able to overwhelm Pato in the first half of their recent match I think Dorian could do that and not make the same mistakes Fabricio made which allowed Pato to wrestle up.
Agreed that pato is his hardest matchup, best guard in the division and if he gets into the legs Dorian will be in trouble. Fabricio vs Dorian would be interested especially in the standup seeing what Fabrício did to Owen Livsey and Giancarlo . Fair take to think Dorian can win it all in the adcc ruleset, he definitely on paper has the potential to.
I've spoken about Deandre more extensively in a few other comments, but basically, I don't think his resume is strong enough to go higher based on the names he has beaten at this stage. His biggest wins are Grippo (penalty point) and Krikorian (points, via a back take). I don't think Diogo deserves to drop based on one loss - he has the accolades, has beaten elite grapplers and he passes the eye test. Much like Pato's standing isn't based on one result. - Ross
Great content. Looking forward to watching all of the ADCC and CJI tier list.
Thank you!
I agree about Dorian, I think he’s the biggest wildcard in this division, he hasn’t shown to be on the level of some of the top guys in the division yet, but on paper he has the skill set and attributes to beat any of them.
Yeah he’s definitely an interesting one to have in the mix, really looking forward to watching him at adcc after seeing what he did to some big names at trials!
- Calum
The brackets will be very interesting. All the top seeds must be desperate to avoid him. Even if Dorian loses it will probably take a massive effort to beat him, which will deplete the battery of the winner. I’m really looking forward to seeing him and the chaos he brings.
- Ross
@@JiuJitsuOracle-lz9yfyeah that’s a good point, I remember in the old daisy fresh documentary’s they said everyone dreaded drawing a daisy’s fresh guy in their division because even if they were to win it would take a massive effort and deplete them for later matches, same with Dorian.
I have to go with Kennedy. He’s an absolute beast & I’ve never seen him so focused, in shape & locked in. He’s also added a lot to his game.
He’s had a great year. What do you think are the additions to his game that have particularly helped?
- Ross
I’m biased bc I’ve trained with him but he’s so focus and outworks everyone he’s also well rounded he can hang with anybody at any position I have him winning 100%
It looks to me that he’s right on top of his strategy, tactics and timing. What do you think? Does he work on that in training?
- Ross
@@JiuJitsuOracle-lz9yf absolutely that’s half of what cobrinha drills into us he’s also got a great team and they study and tailor their training to the opponents. He’s constantly doing timing drills also
Agree. I think Kennedy is A, potential for S. Their discussion on some matches could’ve gone either way is how it is with the top tiers. The fact that he keeps his head in those big spots and does get those wins says a lot about his training room. It can’t always be a blow out. Further, he has the one coach (except for maybe Pato) that’s been there before and many times at that.
The only changes I'd make to the whole list is to move Ethan Crelinstan, Dorian, and Deandre all up one tier. Arguably moving Gabriel Souza down one.
Thanks for your take. Can definitely make a case for putting all those guys up a tier. I think with Gabriel Souza we just know that he has the capability to make it to the final and has a good skillset for adcc. However I can understand your reasoning based on for the past while.
I rate this tier list idea! Very nice!
Thanks! It’ll be fun to go through all the divisions leading upto ADCC and CJI, the rest of divisions are close to being filled up.
I think this indicates two things - One, that Brazilians are on average smaller so they have a larger pool of small fighters, which helps expand that extreme corner of the bell curve. Two, that Brazilians continue to have a perceived mystique around them even though champions and average placements increasingly favor other countries with every passing year.
That said, Pato is incredible and I think he takes it pretty convincingly this year.
Brazil does very well at all weight classes. In the higher divisions; +99 has Honorio, Gutemberg, Pena, Vinny and Roosevelt. -99 is even stronger with Kaynan, Meregali, Gaudio, Braz, Cyborg and Cardoso.
That said, Brazil looks their strongest at -66.
I don't think there's a "perceived mystique" around Brazil. The sport is growing globally and contenders are emerging from other countries as the talent pool grows.
- Ross
Solid list, although Kennedy should be S, he’s a former champ and coming off a win over Fabricio Andrey and Gabriel Sousa
I don’t think Kennedy can be one of the favourites, which is S-tier, when Baby Shark and Pato are there. That’s the final we expect. Being A-tier we think Kennedy has a decent-good chance and I think that’s fair.
He’s not a former ADCC champ, his best result was 2nd in 2019. He’s had a great year, he’s a threat to go all the way, but not a favourite for me.
- Ross
Where do you guys think Mikey would place in this tier list if he were a part of this division in adcc?
I think the debate would he be high A, or make S. Instinctively I'd go high A. Yes, his form is great, he passes the eye test and has aura. But his recent strength of schedule isn't hugely strong and there are questions over how he'd do under ADCC rules/scoring with more emphasis on rewarding wrestling.
- Ross
Damn I thought this was a CJI tier list 💀😭
It's coming. Two of them in fact!
I’ll be back for that one!!!
In this ruleset, I think Dorian can beat all of these guys. His hardest matchup stylistically is Pato imo . We saw that Fabricio was able to overwhelm Pato in the first half of their recent match I think Dorian could do that and not make the same mistakes Fabricio made which allowed Pato to wrestle up.
Agreed that pato is his hardest matchup, best guard in the division and if he gets into the legs Dorian will be in trouble. Fabricio vs Dorian would be interested especially in the standup seeing what Fabrício did to Owen Livsey and Giancarlo . Fair take to think Dorian can win it all in the adcc ruleset, he definitely on paper has the potential to.
@@JiuJitsuOracle-lz9yf I think the tier list idea is really cool. I look forward to the next videos.
@@speardjinn5085Thank you! I think it’ll be a fun way for us to preview all the ADCC/CJI divisions while getting input from you guys on our choices.
Yea pato
Big favourite for sure given his recent run!
I'd put Deandre in B and maybe Diogo in A given how quickly Diego Pato broke his leg in WNO
I've spoken about Deandre more extensively in a few other comments, but basically, I don't think his resume is strong enough to go higher based on the names he has beaten at this stage. His biggest wins are Grippo (penalty point) and Krikorian (points, via a back take).
I don't think Diogo deserves to drop based on one loss - he has the accolades, has beaten elite grapplers and he passes the eye test. Much like Pato's standing isn't based on one result.
- Ross