How to Create the Best Gamecube Controller for SSBM
Вставка
- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- The Gamecube controller requires hardware mods, software fixes, and proper technique in order to reach its full potential. Here is all of the key information going forward, as well as the endgame solution to the controller legality discussions.
b0xx.com
/ ssbmhax
/ ssbmhax
/ discord
Resources:
www.twitlonger... (written form of this video)
• Final Melee 1.03 Contr... (1.03 controller fix)
• The Best Way to L-Canc... (significance of analog L-cancel) - Ігри
Hey Hax,
Master degree in electric engineering here. The pontentiometer part was correct according to the plans I have of the original GC design. Good job for explaining a complex topic that ez.
Greetings from Germany. Keep up the good work.
lmfao
@@hahahalala-i1x why did i laugh at this reply?
Herr Doktorr Hax$ has a PhD in Smash
@@ugotvectored1628 bro does hax have the most chad fan base of all time
@@daxmoney5011 idk
I'd like to add that unlike the goomwave, the phob is open source on github and anyone can benefit from the work that controller modders have contributed. Phobs are a little pricey now, but with the 2.0 motherboard, it should reduce both the price and skill based soldering. This should open the door for more players to upgrade at a lower price
After the kick start cancel of the panda controller, this would be our best bet
@@Mach7tequila phob is better than PG controller imo
@@calebrobinson6406 I guess it's time I start doing some more research
@@Mach7tequila the major thing is the analog stick accuracy and the ability to callibrate the sticks. Even with UCF the oem controllers I used would miss dashes, shield drops, not to mention snapback. Phob software includes a snapback filter for both x and y.
Can older phob motherboard be upadted to get the things that the 2.0 motherboard has in terms of functionality/software side?
hax holding a gcc? this video is fake
i love box contrullur
the goat
pls go to more tourneys I miss ur combos :(
@@RedBarchettaSSBM puff
Forrest 😍
@@jop3249 buff
We appreciate all of your hard work in the community Hax!
getting my local scene started, region is dead as hell but I will always be running 1.03 on every setup. its insane that people havent been implementing it
The soft press for L-cancels refers to a technique involving tech lock-outs. If you try to perform an L-cancel but instead get put in the knocked-down state, it you could put you in a tech lock-out meaning you will miss your tech. If you perform a soft L-cancel press, it allows you to L-cancel successfully if you land but doesn't lock you out of a tech if the knockdown scenario happens, meaning you retain the ability to tech.
TLDR soft press allows you to L-cancel and tech in every situation
Also soft L cancel is better for the hands anyways imo
Going against notches is a spicy hot take if I've heard one!! I think it's gonna be hard to get people to give them up now that they've gotten used to them.
You should consider making another video where you talk about the arguments about it more clearly.
The man in this video is holding a gamecube controller. Clearly this is not Hax as his hands would combust upon contact
Even though a phob doesnt have mechanical wear reading inputs, I'm pretty sure the stickbox itself can still degrade with time which can make optimal notch positions shift. (important to note that once a stickbox is completely dead you can just swap those out of the phob and have a fully functioning controller over a longer period of time than a OEM gcc. No need to buy a whole new controller)
doesn't the phob have programmable notches? if things drift you could just recalibrate
@@AndyHope970 i forgot about that, it allows for you to callibrate notches
You also forgot that they use a t3 Stick box type.
On gc controller they're pretty rare but on nunchucks they're abundant.. Therefore you can have a perfect replacement for peanuts whenever you feel like it.
hax's office looking clean
hell yeah, fuck notches. i love the standardisation effort here - great to see a game i dropped over controls getting what i see as critical improvements like this
Dude awesome video! I feel like hax is the only one actually presenting good solutions.
2 hax videos in 2 days? Epic
Skel goat
This is very informative, thanks 👍
Notches should remain legal for controllers. If the b0xx can accurately pinpoint coordinates outside of the 8 cardinals then the GCC should be able to as well. Otherwise, great video!
i think notches should be done at a software level. but the community wont agree with me for like 10 years after the last gcc shell is dust.
It should be done at a software level tho. Notches on gamecube controllers with other mods equates to hundreds of dollars just to play the game without being at a disadvantage. If this can be done at a software level it could increase the durability of the GameCube controller while also being more affordable.
@@Rassmaster also it would give controller Parady between gcc and xbox ds5 conches
I agree with almost everything except your point on notches. I believe that notches are the least egregious controller mod because they can be done entirely with stock, OEM parts. They do not require any 3rd party hardware and can be done by anyone who already owns a gamecube controller with no additional costs. I do not believe the max length wavedash mod on 1.03 is a good alternative because it removes the ability to perform 0 degree wavelands, which are very important for characters like Yoshi
i can’t agree with all of this enough !! i really hope 2023 can be the start of the modern era, but sadly would not be surprised if it takes the community another entire year to come around :/
Agree with most of this but as a box user I think notches should be legal if box is legal
Agreed, the idea of notches is to consistently hit angles and remove the octagonal restrictions. The boxx by definition does this same thing. Consistent angles with intentional inputs.
That’s the only thing I really disagree on.
@@Broseidon132 Sadly I think hax might be hurting the case for 1.03 by advocating for banning notches
@@fresca4008 - yeah, I just think it is out of place compared to his argument for 1.03, mouse click z, and phobs. Like there cannot be any regulation on notches since the people who want the mod will do it themselves or pay for it regardless. There’s no way a controller check would be permitted to ban the use of notches on a controller.
Regarding the second point, i learned to play with a claw grip, and i think theres no difference vs a z jump layout. My R is my L cancelling spring (Analog) and i use a plug on the L.
I’m a claw gripper when I play on gcc too. It’s unergonomic but it’s how I learned to play before I got a b0xx. The problem with z jump is that it makes R tough to press
@@yelv I use my middle finger to press R. I use R for wavedash and shield (L for wavedash OOS). Works for me
thank you Hax
Great video. Thanks Hax!
Saying that notches should be banned is kind’ve ridiculous. Especially with the Phob allowing notch calibration, and you can 3D print a front shell for your GCC with notches.
A GameCube controller with notches is objectively better and closer to being in line with B0xx style controllers- and I say this as a B0xx user.
Phob + Notches + trigger mods is what GCC players should be using.
yo can someone make stl files of the GCC case so anyone can make a shell does someone have them.
yeah I agree with phob, a perfectly functional and working gamecube controller will always be better. There are advantages to digital ofc, but a *perfect* gamecube controller will always reign supreme. Being able to use all wavedash angles and the ability to easily switch between a tiny wavedash to full length shouldn't be understated. Simply walking forward and jabbing can be a bitch on digital set ups
good stuff Hax
Now the real question is where the hell is the community supposed to get a custom PHOB with: mouse click Z, cut R/L button spring, and Z jump with X grab. Sure, let me just call up a Modder to do all that for $500+ and wait half a year for the product to come my way. Hope nothing happens during shipping. If I want it done faster I have to buy a soldering kit, Learn how to solder etc. and it will still cost $250. In what way is that feasible for the average player. You shouldn't have to wait months for a good controller/learn how to solder just to play a video game!
letsgooo 1.03
Is the z jump mod mostly for traditional grip users? I do claw grip always so my index is permanently on jump. Would z jump benefit me at all?
I don't think, so. IBDW used to claw but switched to z jump because his hands are huge, so it's easier on his hands. lloD never clawed. Afaik they have the same advantages, so if clawing feels good for you no need to switch. If you feel more comfortable in the standard grip consider switching.
Amazing video and I am hax$'s biggest fan, but I do have 2 issues/questions:
1. Is the automation for the analog L cancel on boxx a macro? wouldn't digital>analog be cheating? How can this be prevented/addressed? Can you explain what the automation means?
2. I think that banning notches is problematic in many ways. The boxx will always have the inherent advantage of being digital (instant/consistent), so I think the freedom of angles (and notches) should be the GCC's "inherent advantage". That's just my thought, but maybe it's more nuanced than that.
Digital to analog isn't cheating. The box has limited angles. And a shorter long wavedash. The box has a 30° wavedash where as a GameCube conch with notches is like 13°. As for the automated l-cancel. The inputs are jump, aerial, fastfall, z. He is saying it's automatic because of the inherent analog shield press on the grab button because it is a macro. The controllers are equal but different. Everyone says there broken. But I could argue that yoshi is more broken than the box thanks amsa
@@Indigamesforlife I guess my question is, is digital > analog an instant 0-1.0, or does it simulate a “natural analog press”? Specifically for the boxx’s analog l cancelling button
@@burgerchild it is 0-.996 I think. But 1.03 makes it 1.0 but there is no "travel" time. However button travel time is still there. Hax did a vid.
@@burgerchild also for the l-cancel it is used with z. Z is a macro of light shield and attack. So it's not a good question.
@@burgerchild the box does have a light and mid shield button but not used for l-cancel.
Hax… Love you’re deep dive into box to controller. My hands are pretty messed up due to grappling and I just got a phob GameCube controller to attempt to play melee but my thumbs and fingers are just not able to execute on some motions. What is your opinion on frame1 vs boxx, benefits/differences? Lmk at your earliest convenience. Would love your comparison as far as use -> legality.
frame 1 n boxx are pretty much the same thing the only difference being is the quality of materials used in building the boxx/frame 1. U can see the difference in the prices as well. Lower prices equals cheaper materials but cheaper materials doesnt mean that its not good. its decent enough to get the job done. think of it like a budget fight stick vs a fully upgraded custom built fight stick. same shit ykwim
the triple-controller archetype
This works with a nunchuk too! If you are using it with a boxx like me
If u think that at the end of the day B0xx will still be better than the GCC even with the 1.03 fixes then it doesn't make sense to ban notches as the whole point of 1.03 is to close the gap between GCC capabilities and B0xx so the GCC can still remain as a viable controller choice for Melee, so banning notches is outright a nerf for the GCC, so why would you nerf the "worse" controller if you are concerned on adressing the parity problem so both controllers can be as functionally equal as they can be. I disagree with banning GCC notches as long as the B0xx is regarded as the "better" controller of these two.
if I wanted to get into modding controllers for my own enjoyment/casual playing what resources could I check out to learn? the ones in the description seem very specific to this video and Im coming at this with absolutely no experience at all btw
We need another controller type. And it needs to be dark. We could then have a dark triad of controllers
I've always been with hax on the whole polemic stuff but i swear the dark triad jokes always crack me up
As someone who has a notched controller, I agree with your opinion about notches. They should be banned.
@AzizAl-Yami So is your suggested optimal layout for a phob Z jump Ariel attacks, Y jump & right trigger wave dash, and all shielding left trigger?
Finally, controllers at reasonable price
Panda Controller
My guy you're selling a product that's 230 dollars which improves precision, yet you want to ban a 40 dollar mod? That's not a good look bro.
This was a really good video. I just don’t know if I will be able to use z jump.
One suggestion I could make is digital d pad input for better slippi communication. I once said “lol” when I meant to hit “gg,” due to d pad PODE degradation. My opponent left instantly.
haha
Which trinitron model is that?
do a video response on ye
Wouldn't boost grab and JC grab be harder if you're using z-jump?
Nah just make x or y grab
How do I get these things?
It is possible to make the Phob triggers bypass ADT in firmware without modifying the game.
Yeah make sure that there is no analog press. You could also put in a mechanical keyboard switch if your crafty enough
I use my left as wavedash, shield and right for l-cancel you can use what you want but you can't do all on one as you would be able to in 1.03
No, it's a feature where if you press the trigger fast enough it'll delay the analog trigger output until you stop moving. Move it slowly, and you'll get normal analog shield. Move it quickly, and you'll get digital first every time.
I fuckin switched over to xbox 360 controller and dont think Ill bother switching back, its easier on the hands and much more responsive
yo i aint paying for a goomwave. bring back the arduino.
A Phob motherboard is like $80 plus labor for a modder
@@reddabos bro I made a box I can make a phob. The goomwave is better than a phob technically and if I want the magic conch I want the best one.
@@reddabos where could one purchase a Phob if they wanted? Having trouble finding someone with them.
@@SupremeBeyonder I kno a guy who makes them if u need :)
edit: I think I saw you commenting on a vod of solibattle vs Franz so I'm thinking maybe ur EU? if so I don't think my guy ships outta the US :(
@@SupremeBeyonder ebay is actually a good place. You can find them for like $25
Box cool and all but always sold out.
ADT is a big deal , Boxx user do not have such an issue. Is it right to fix it within the game, is it an unfair advantage of the boxx?
i know its nice when shield works
@@Indigamesforlife I've been in favour of these fixes for some time
@@Lampaluile personally i dont think its enough. i think software notches are an eventuality. when people come from other consoles like Xbox PlayStation and switch, the controllers that they use are better than standard gcc. the only problem is circle gates on all the conches besides gcc. there is no matter on the knotch in that case. making software knotches needed. i want to future proof the game tbh.
The most important part of this movement is accessibility, not only for disabilities and injury, but also for price. $300/£250 for a controller is fucking ridiculous and it stops people like me who would love to play but can't because of a lack of button remapping and unclear boxx legalities means that I am risking my already tender and sore wrists. And putting down 3 figures for a game that is already insular and has a 20 year competitive backlog to learn. It's just untenable for so many people to appreciate this game.
Bro just use your keyboard or diy a box. And listen if melee is too hard for you. you can play street fighter I heard street fighter has a buffer...
You know that top players buy controllers that are just as expensive every few months? Hopefully that stops soon but I don’t think price is a great objection against legality of boxes. In the long run, box controllers tend to be much cheaper if you’re aiming for an actually good controller. Just save up, play on keyboard for now with b0xx AHK.
I get where you’re coming from, but to play it at a casual level or semi-professional level you can get budget controllers for 100 yourself. Or, you can just get a GameCube controller, you won’t be held back that much. Until you want to take a professional career more seriously it will matter.
Plus, phob prices top out at around 350-400, that is a very cheap price to pay for a hobbyist. Think about being a guitarist, a good guitar will be 500-600 but if you go cheap it’ll be like 200-300, then you need jack cables, picks, strings, an amp, maybe headphones for your amp if you have neighbours.
It’s not hard to save for it, and I’m working class.
@@firstlast-wg2on yeah and I diyed a boxx for like 150 maybe less. Look up Cranes diy vid
300 is a lot? I mean if you take something seriously that's really a normal thing to do, as a musician dropping hundreds of dollars on gear every now and then this is normal. If you're a casual then you're not really playing that often so it doesn't matter
Have you tried putting analog inputs on the boxx so you don't have to use macros? (Digital to much more complex analog input instantly, going neutral to an exact consistent analog input on 1 frame consistently, i.e. cheating?)
That's not what a macro is. A macro is 1:many ratio of inputs:outputs i.e. 1 input to many outputs.
Hax I wanna buy Boxx but it to expensive if you lower to 199 I will buy :)
there will be a black friday sale
I've been playing stock controller from 2013 onwards. With ucf it has improved my controller. I don't miss L cancels and have no struggle shielding. I have never removed a spring. I don't get what you are talking about yet. Very curious tho
Did the video say that this made L cancels or shielding easier? I don't recall that being said at all.
If you're talking about the ADT shielding then yes, you have been affected by it since it's impossible to avoid without removing a spring. There's a separate video on that. Just because you haven't noticed it (like many issues pre-UCF) doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
I'll just use my regular gamecube and see how far I'll go
You won't be able to play at any tournament running UCF then since that's not vanilla.
@@hounvs I meant gamecube controller my b
@@IAm-zo1bo but you said elsewhere that you want the game as vanilla as possible to avoid a divide. Seems like you're picking and choosing which mods you want.
@@hounvs even I forget my comment how the hell do you know that. Ucf is pretty much the standard and dashback is the one reason that I like it a lot
@@IAm-zo1bo tapped your name and it shows other comments on this channel. UCF is changing pretty much the same things that this mod changes (except the ADT shield thing). Seems very arbitrary and just biased to pick things you're used to when they explicitly aren't vanilla.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm…
why z jump over l (or r) jump?
You don't have to claw grip the two jump buttons in order to properly utilize c-stick fastfall or fastfall into c-arial while being able to recover. Having Z jump gives you an option that doesn't require changing hand grip to use the C Stick and jump without wasted movement
@@AzureCrux He asked over L/R, not stock X/Y. Hax actually originally was going to include L/R in 1.03 I believe, but he and altimor scrapped that and made it just Z because remapping L/R allows you to bypass the b0xx's wavedash nerf (the nerf angle happens when holding L/R). You should be able to remap the buttons however you want in an ideal world; Z is kind of objectively better though due to requiring less actuation force to press (try short hopping with L/R jump with a 3 frame jump squat character, that will never be consistent ever, even Z jump with stock GCC is awful with 3 frame jump squat).
@@Fireblaze3127 Also by using Z you're keeping both L and R open for some tech that's easier when using both triggers/muscle memory/etc
Taking a guess before watching video:
Second Z button AND 2 paddle buttons.
I miss the good ole days of vanilla melee and shit controllers. I hate this entire topic
if you like randomness and bad design allow me to introduce you to Brawl
@@calebrobinson6406 savage
Rare Haxdollar using GCC footage (real)
Lol
Where I (a normie not top player) can buy a Phob??
That's what I wanna know.