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Growing up building Dragon kits, they used to be the standard of what 1/35 & 1/72 models should look like. They were not only easy to build, but also affordable too, for a decent price, you get an accurate model with PE parts, figures, and sometimes even metal barrel. But then about 10 years ago, the company became too greedy and started making okay-ish kits for outrageous prices. I stopped buying them because it was just not worth the money anymore, plus some of the new kits also have major flaws. However if you can find their vintage 1/72 Sherman kits for reasonable prices, get it, because they are still the best 1/72 Sherman kits on the market.
I haven’t seen their 72nd scale Sherman. I’ll have to keep an eye out for one. I’ve really been enjoying that scale lately. Thanks for sharing your thoughts - hope you are enjoying the channel 🙏
Learnt my lesson with Dragon Instructions and always reference online build instructions to find the flaws before glue commitment. It always pays to do this before starting any makers build. I still love Dragon kits over anything else and it's great to see all these re-releases. Great build you have there, I look forward to see the paint job/weathering finish upload given your skill and commitment.
For me Dragon is the best, especially with Pz IV and Tiger. Not only they are more accurate, but i love the complexity and the number of parts. For me, the best part of the hobby is the construction, not painting.
You make a good point. Different people get their joy in the hobby from different things. For me the construction is just something I have to do to get to paint…it’s not that I don’t enjoy it, but it’s the painting phase that gives me the most joy. Thanks for sharing your thoughts 👍
hello dear Clayton,how are you?i am in hospital because i had a heart attack and your stunnig assemnly it relieves me;i no appreciate the instrucions of Dragon,to intricate;i build the Hummel Dragon in 1994;their first kit imported in Europe,and the errors on the assembly instructions were numerous!!and their plastic smell the mushroom;yuck!can't wait for your painting;good journey for you and family;cheers Patrick
Hi there, ofc I do recognise your frustration with dragon, we all do. Here is my 2 cents: They make beautifull kits with terrible manuals. I have build a few 1/32 Bf 109E's and 110D/E's and they are absolutely gorgeous, some of the best kits around. I also recently build a Sd Kfz 7 that, had I not watched some video's about it, could have turned into a disaster. So it's a bit like a minefield 😂 Cheers from Rotterdam!
BTW, forgot to compliment you on the Sherman Clayton! Another great build, look forward to seeing the next installment. And, I must find this one to add to my growing collection of Dragon armour kits!
Thanks Jim. I believe this kit is being rereleased with upgrades. Might be worth keeping an eye out for. Can’t imagine it will be cheap though. Thanks again for your support 🙏
Nice work mate! Dragon’s kits aren’t that bad but good references are essential for great results. Have heard that their DS vinyl tracks are no good and that the material breaks down with age. The rear idlers have always been a weak spot with poor fitting but otherwise the builds are really solid. Mind you I nearly replace everything with aftermarket parts including the tracks.
I half made their Churchill with DS tracks. They snapped, pre-heating with hot water didn't help. Annoying given their 1/72 kits are the same price as a 1/35 from others. I also made their Sherman V Firefly and the sprocket is too high. It's not obvious until it is too late and cutting and respositioning it doesn't seem to help, perhaps it is slightly too large. But I credit Dragon one thing: when they came along in the early 90s model building was stagnant: just a few new releases a year. Dragon really shook things up.
I'm game for any dragon model kits up for grabs! Who wouldn't be on board with that? I stock up on extra aftermarket parts for all my builds, so I usually skip the instructions. With over 40 years in the game, I'm a seasoned model builder with countless completed kits. #ModelKitMaster #ExpertBuilder #DragonModel love any challenges .
Hi, Nice work, just found your channel and subbed. Where did you get the 3D printed track skids or did you design them yourself? I tried going to your website to see if you sold them but you domain has expired. Cheers, Mark
Hi Mark. I let the website go. It was costing too much for the hosting. The file is on cults3d. If you head there and do a search I’m sure it will pop up. Good luck 🤞 👍
@@workbenchhobbies4316 Ok, Thanks for the info. Way back in the day when I first got on line around 1995-96, internet providers used to give you some free web space to create your own site. Guess those days are long gone. Keep those great videos coming.
@@workbenchhobbies4316 I found that file on Cults. Sorry to hear that it was too expensive to set up an online shop. There should think of the small business more. Have you considered Etsy?
I may get the shop going again in the future if this community grows to a point to warrant it. It’s set up there ready to be turned on again. I just have to pay the subscription 🫣
Looking great so far! I've built a few Dragon kits and don't mind them (especially their Panzer 38t variants) but those damned instructions require serious study before cutting anything off the sprue. They are a good way of building up the spares box too! Built a Panzer IV that came with enough parts to nearly build another one.
Hey Jason. I recently sold the full interior pz38…wish I had have kept it 😢. Those superfluous parts are a lot aren’t they?! Thanks for joining in the conversation
Excellent video sir, I love Dragon kits, but as you mentioned, they are getting too expensive, so I don't have a stash anymore. Regards from North Wales, UK. Happy modelling.
Hey David. Yeah, the new releases are getting ridiculous aren’t they! In saying that there are usually a heap of second hand kits available on eBay and at swap and sells if you were wanting to work on that stash again 😉
Ive built some Tigers and a Stug, and I never had any problems with their kits, yeah instructions can be a little irritating sometimes, but nothing you can’t get over. In my opinion they still make some of the best Tiger I’s and King tiger kits out there.
Hi Clayton, great video as always. It’s been several decades since I’ve built a Dragon AFV but I’ve recently built a couple of their WW1 aircraft and apart from some gap issues and old style steel pe parts they weren’t too bad. I do have some Dragon ships in the stash that look a bit daunting though.
Hey Craig. Thanks for joining in. Those old Ww1 planes would have to be 30years old now wouldn’t they? They were pretty ground breaking at the time if I remember correctly 🤔
Not sure if you watched all the way , but I mentioned I had tracks on the way and just fitted those as a temporary thing. Looking forward to presenting the finished model for you all in a couple of weeks
The coupla being either the split hatch or later single piece isn't the most relevant detail since both were possible because tankers did scavenge parts but I think they just gave the option to be a little cheaper (fewer parts to change out with different models)
I built several Dragon models over the years and my experience in general is positive. They have ups and downs, some kits have issues, but I buy only those that have good feedback, so I never got disappointed. Sure, the instructions often do suck, but with another kit bulit you learn to understand "the Dragon way". I'm currently building the Sd.Kfz. 7/2 (6553) and I must say it's a great kit and I'm really enjoying gluing the parts together.
This video just became one of my all time favorite videos. Cause at 5:57 your reference picture is my Great Uncles tank. At least a Sherman done up to look like it. As for Dragon kits, I have a love/hate relationship with them. I've built a number of them and all but one have had at least something wrong in the instructions. I built one of their M1A1 Abrams kit and the DS tracks were inches too long. I did have some problems with their Tarawa Sherman. On the other hand I believe it was the Ha Go tank I built and it went together beautifully. I also really like the half-track kits I've built. I tend to avoid their really old kits, which I find pretty bad. I hate their DS tracks and I avoid any of their kits that come with them. Give me Magic Tracks any day. I think they build up into a really nice model, once you get passed the normally terrible instructions. I haven't built one recently, but I have roughly 60 of them gathering dust in my stash, waiting on me to buy aftermarket tracks to replace the many that unfortunately have DS tracks.
Firstly- awesome story about your uncle. I’m hoping you’ve built the model of his tank? I love those connections that make a build personal. Second…that HaGo is making its way up my build list very fast…so it’s interesting you mentioned that one ☝️
Hey Neil. Thanks for your observation. You are certainly not the first to highlight that and it’s something I’m going to be mindful of with future builds. In saying that, I’m building these the way I enjoy my models, so I’ll definitely still use aftermarket, but maybe I should highlight along the way what it’s adding to the build. I’d encourage you to watch the next video in the serious though because I address the aftermarket in that one. Appreciate you taking the time to comment 🏆🍺🙏
I’m just barely finishing dragon kit 6495 the Ferdinand Kursk 1943 premium and boy does this kits have its ups ands downs mostly with the photo etch fenders which are just thin pieces of metal and I had to do surgery just to make them fit right with semi thick pieces of copper and could barely make out some steps of the instructions but a decent kit for its price
Another great modeling video with your ever amusing inserts. I do have a few Dragon or Cyberhobby (which I am sure is a Dragon kits, too) kits in the stash. The Shermans I have are a mixed bag when it comes to accuracy as the Dragon Tarawa kit has the wrong color markings and the Cyberhobby is a variant of Sherman used in Burma but comes with a European tank crew, ha, ha! Your Sherman looks outstanding and I look forward to the next video and I am curious how many Aussie Dollars you put into your kit? Also, when it comes to being gobsmacked (love that word) on the details, Mini Art kits look to be a challenging brand too.
One of the big advantages of Dragon was (still is?) their range of subjects and variants - they do quite a few subjects that no other company produces in plastic. For example, I'm about to start the Heuschrecke 10 "Grasshopper". That said, I wouldn't turn to Dragon as my first choice for something common.
I have built several Dragon Shermans, so I don't really follow the instructions anymore, so that is not an issue for me. I did try building the M-7 Priest, I found that the instructions were so bad that I reached the point of frustration,,,,that kit has been shelved. Maybe I will build up the courage to pick it up again at some point.
Oh! Interesting about the Priest. I have that in the stash and often dream of building that. Love that vehicle! Sounds like I’d better prepare myself before tackling it 🤣 Thanks for sharing you experiences 👍🍺
@@workbenchhobbies4316 When you build it look for Good References!!! Especially the shield mount to Gun... Nothing in the Instructions! I love Dragon Kits, but I've also learned to find and use references! I know the Vehicle before I start. And I collect all of those 'extra' parts for other makers kits! Especially Shermans and Pz IV based!
I have built several Dragon/DML kits over the years in all of their genres and enjoyed them all. I would say that they raised the bar for modeling when most of their kits were first released. While they can seem over-engineered, their level of detail was better than the competition at the time, even though you really needed to pay attention to the instructions. There are certainly better kits available today, and at better prices, but when they were first released the kits were a bargain as they included photoetched parts where other manufacturers offered them separately.
Hi Scott. They certainly changed the game didn’t they! It’s a shame their new releases aren’t a little more competitively priced, because I think a lot of the things people complain about may be excused at a lower price point 🤔 Thanks for sharing your thoughts 🙏
Here's some advice about removing 3D printed parts from sprue. Before removing, dip whole 3D print into hot/warm water. It become softer and less fragile, So it can be removed easily.
@@workbenchhobbies4316 definitely try! I've got this information from owner of Firma49 which is specialized in 3D printed products for modellers and it works 🙂
Very nice build.👍🏽👍🏽Can't wait to see that cool paint job on it!!You persevered through the Dragon kit.😁 To be honest, I've only had a problem with one Dragon Sherman kit, and it was one the Cyberhobby types. Alot of the parts, especially the lower hull and upper hull did not match up. 😢 So I shelved it. I do like the Dragon Shermans, and anytime I build any Sherman kit, I go to 'Son of Sherman' books for reference. Now my really big issue is the TRex accessories. I'm not impressed as I've found that on occasion the material is too, too brittle and breaks easily. I have had this issue on a few of their accessories, after spending some serious greenbacks on them. 💸💸💸 They have their ups and downs, but sometimes they seem to be the only Shermans out their besides the awesome Asuka kits.
Completely agree that the Trex parts are expensive and brittle. Someone suggested soaking them in water for 15 mins softened them and allows them to be removed more easily.
Thanks for bringing forth how bad their instructions are. Sherman’s were the better ones. Try a “Black Label “ many modelers have had issues with the Dragon Styrene coming apart and poor fit of major parts
It’s interesting. You are the third person to highlight that. I hadn’t really considered the amount of aftermarket. The video was never about cost of the kit. I paid $30 for it on a swap and sell table. It was more about the challenges of the design and instructions that seem to be a recurring theme with these Dragon kits. Appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts 👍
Ahhh .. Dragon .. I love them, but so does my reference books , you think there are lots of options on the Sherman, try their late Panther kit lol. In a way it is great to have so many options in one kit , you just need to study the instructions to make sure that all the options can work together. It would be nice if they gave us a clue what would go with what but hey.. what can you say? LOL!
I think you are right. It’s good to have the options there for sure…but some explanation as to how and when to use them would be nice wouldn’t it ! 😩 Thanks for taking the time to share 💪🙏
Hi again Clayton! I have built a few Dragon kits, with varying success. I now stay away from them for the very reasons you mention here. I think they are over-engineered and overpriced, but they do have a great range of kits available. The thing that turns me away from buying Dragon kits the most, is the price you have to pay for a kit. I just can’t afford to pay over $100 for a particular kit, when I know I can buy a similar kit for a lot less from another brand. On the positive side of Dragon kits, I now have a boxfull of spare parts harvested from all the leftover ‘not used’ bits from each kit. Cheers for now mate!
@@workbenchhobbies4316 I recently succeeded in making a Tamiya Alate model from a D model and a G model but needed parts not offered in either kit. Therefore I used redundant parts from a Dragon model to complete my kit!
Hi Clayton, your sherman looks fantastic. I wish dragon would re tool their kits as they are getting long in the tooth now and yet they are still asking top dollar for them. I've just bought a sherman from ryefield. but I did look at reviews of the kit before I bought one to make sure it was worth the money spent. I bought a dragon m1aim abrams some years,ago and the thing is covered in flash and the lower hull is cracked at the rear and the instructions don't make sense so I don't think I will buy another dragon kit. cheers Gary uk 🇬🇧
Hey Gary. You know what…I’ve never built a RFM kit! The Sherman does look nice though. Sorry to hear you have had a bad Dragon experience…sounds like you are not alone though! Thanks for your support 🍺
@@workbenchhobbies4316 i didn't find them that hard to do not like many other modelers pls they came with many tools n other bits which was good for the price and many options
I have built many Dragon kits since they became available in my area in 1990 and I love them. I have many in my stash still yet to build. I really think that like bands and other things, Dragon became the "cool" or "in" thing to hate on. Modelers can be a fickle bunch and you may have those with limited skills or patience that start it all due to their own frustration and if it catches on, people run with it. The same thing was happening with Mirror Models which take extra effort and patience but build into beautiful models. Some may not like what I'm saying but that's really what it boils down to.
Modellers a fickle bunch?! Never 🤣🤣 I guess it just depends where you get your joy from the hobby. No doubt they can build into a great looking model. Thanks for sharing your thoughts 🍺🙏
Dragon kits are massively over engineered, the instructions can be confusing and you have to take a fair amount of time reading, understanding and dry fitting the parts! Miniart models are even worse for this! I build a Miniart engine and there were four parts just create a small circular fly wheel!!!!
I am building a Dragon kut now, and i get a headache thinking about it, every step you have to look 20 times, look at reference images where some parts need to go
I feel for you 😬 Having reference pictures on hand is a necessity when attempting a Dragon kit isn’t it. Good luck with it. Which kit are you building?
Hi Clayton, I don't mind Dragon but the price is a large factor for me, and yes the instructions can be a problem, I build a lot of Jagdtiger kits and the Dragon 2 in 1 kit was terrible, the details were chunky compared to other kits, sadly that kit found it's way into the bin, also those tracks they use break after a while and need to be replaced with something better.
Try soaking the T-Rex vision guards in water for about fifteen minutes. That softens the material that the guards are made of. They then are easier to remove from their carrier sheet. Don’t worry about them loosing their shape. After they dry they will revert to their original shape.
Hi Clayton, thanks for the video and I look forward to seeing you paint and weather the Sherman. To answer your question I think Dragon kits were novel and exciting when they started coming out in the early mid 90’s but haven’t improved much since then, certainly not in comparison to new brands released since then. They have not learned or chosen not to improve and innovate and just re-release old kits with new sprues and call it a whole new kit with 2 in 1 or 3 in 1 options. I haven’t bought one of their newer kits in at least the last 5 years as they are incredibly overpriced compared the their competitors who provide more accurate kits with better engineering and clearer more logical instructions. In short, it’s a hard pass for me for Dragon kits. In any event I have more than enough of their kits in my stash but have preferred to try my hand at other kits like Meng, RFM and others. I’d have to say that Tamiya are my favourite kits to build because they’re beautifully engineered and fit so well. Sure, they’re not as detailed and don’t offer the variety of subjects that other manufacturers do but I’m not a purist or rivet counter and now just build every now and then for relaxation and enjoyment. Thanks again for all your videos. They’ve given me a new lease on my hobby life and are a great source of inspiration and encouragement. Best, Mick
Hey Mick. Great to hear from you. Pleased to hear you are getting your modelling mojo back. Appreciate your in depth thoughts and input and I’m so pleased to hear you are getting some value from the content. Thanks again for joining in mate 👍🙏🍺
The only dragon kit I have built was a sea venom from their cyberhobby brand (I think that was the name, I'm not 100% sure this was years ago now) it was a simple build with good detail but I remember some of the assemblies being quite fiddly and I think I had to do so e surgery to get the cockpit tub to fit properly in the fuselage, but otherwise I don't remember having issues with it, I have steered clear of their 1/35 armour kits though as I have read plenty about poor fit and confusing/outright misleading instructions
I've built Dragon Coelian (Panther Ausf G chassis with a twin machine gun turret for AA purposes) together with RFM Panther Ausf G in the same time and pace (both in 1/35). The Dragon kit was released in the mid-90s, the RFM only a few years ago (distance is around twenty-some years between the two kits). The Dragon kit was rather a nostalgic build, feeling more inferior compared to RFM kit in every aspect (level of details, precision of assembly, offerings in the kit). If there is another (newer) kit on the market, then these Dragon kits only worth purchasing for their mighty Ron Volstad graphics. That is my personal opinion drawn from one single experience.
I know Dragon kits are expensive and they also include lots of extras, they are coming down a little in the UK but still expensive. I would be interested though as you mentioned the price how much all the extras were that you threw at the kit? Not a criticism but more and more you tubers are putting up builds and saying I just added this or that and that's fine it's what I do but it would be interesting to know how much they add to an already expensive kit? Unless you are given them of course. Keep up the great work this isn't a criticism 😁
Hey Gerry. Great question and you are not the only one asking. Maybe I could include those numbers in the next video. I have Trex tracks coming…and they were very expensive. $80aud. Overall I’ve spent about $150aud I’d say. The kit came off a swap and sell table for $30. I add the extras because I think they look better or better represent what I’m trying to achieve…I appreciate that may be out of reach for some people though, so probably need to be mindful about some of these presentations. These ones came out of my pocket 😬
That´s an intersting Sherman there, for sure... the 105 variant sometimes seem a little under-appreciated. As for Dragon kits... in 1/72 they are often said to have set new standards, yet I have only built a couple so far and have a bunch others in stash. Details are often neat and their DS-tracks seem to hold paint better than vinyl, yet I do not trust either. While the instructions might be somewhat unclear in places, building kits from brands as such as UM and ACE have told me to really check the placments well in any case. To be fair, Dragon actually has some really interesting subjects in 72nd scale, as such as the Neubaufahrzeug, a 5,5cm Flakpanther, LRDG Chevy and Ka-Mi amphibious tanks. What has been a bit of a bummer was there being a wave of releases with one-part fully vinyl running gear (I do not know who thought that to be agood idea) mostly distinguished by oragne boxings, but I have successfully avoided those so far. An interesting area are Dragon´s 1/700 ships, where there are some interesting subjects with overall nice quality as well (German Z-39, USN nuclear cruisers, the modern LCS and others). In any case, I´m curious to see this Sherman progressing and how you´ll take on the field-applied camo, intereseting weathering opportunities are certainly there 👍Cheers from Germany!
Dragon has some really good kits and a lot of iffy and not so great kits. One thing Ive noticed is that the first kit in a series was often good, but then as more and more variants with new parts were released the instructions tended to have more and more mistakes and often fit issues would creep in too. When I got back into the hobby around 2010 or so Dragon was my introduction to 1/35 armor and I still have a soft spot for them, though more than one has ended up in my trash can over the years. I still look for dragon kits at shows, a lot of the time you can find them $30 or $40. Much better deal than buying them new these days.
You can definitely pick them up for a reasonable price at the shows. I’d find it hard to pay full price for a new release kit now. I’m not sure who is actually buying them 🤔🫣
Variable options in a construction kit? How about because they are used for multiple kits including standard machines with the 75mm gun as used by the Brit's in the Nth African desert.
Hey there - thanks for your input. Im all for options in a kit...but its the no explanation with what to use when that I have the issue with. I know why there are so many redundant parts and the variants Dragon offer in other kits.
Lucky you chose the sherman for this video, if you chose the Maultier it tells you to use the Opel blitz ladder chassis on the first page then you go oh no no no… you should’ve used the special one in the box included… Since the opening steps are just copied and pasted from the Opel blitz kit, instead of changed to suit the Maultier. Don’t get me wrong my favourite model kits are Dragon, I have a huge supply of them and with some good references and knowledge on the subject they can make a great build. But like you said you definitely need your wits about you and need to tread carefully
Dragon’s model kit every design are modular. In the old days, with the pre-stamped PE parts and additional metal components included. No other manufacturers can even offer that same detail kits. Dragon should be the first manufacturer to provide plastic assembly tracks, named “magic track”. Came with a little plastic bag full of pre-cut tracks. If you’re crazy enough, drill holes on each piece. You could have a movable track. But now, more and more manufacturers use them as reference kits to build their products. With better instructions, fewer parts, similar details. Dragon advantages have become narrower. Those modular designs keep adding up spare parts and price. Also the rubber track came with the Dragon kit, aging too fast. If you’re unfortunate, the track could be broken inside the box. And they don’t have a good customer support. It could take months to get your replacement from them outside Asia. Not all of the kits come with magic tracks, dragon likes to put them with the first batch or so called the “limited edition”. If your rubber track breaks, you have to buy after market stuff. Dragon seems to notice that, they bring back the metal barrels, PE, and magic track as standard now. Reproduction those retired legend kits in a different product numbers. Mark the kits at a reasonable prices too. (Half price from the peak). So if you have enough time, want to build a Panzer IV with nearly thousands parts. Dragon should be your best choice.
Stowage is tricky, and I think you missed the mark here in some ways. First, no tank crew is gonna stow their gear in a way that limits the gun traverse. If there is one thing to take home about armor combat, it is often the guy who shoots first that wins. These guys know that. Second, the gear has to be secure. It wants to fall off during combat (when people have a tendency to get excited and drive like crazy people). If it falls off, its gone. These vehicle have to traverse sudden inclines on a regular basis. Tree branches have a way at grabbing at things when you drive past. And the most important part, gear must be organized. Dirty things like oil cans and camo nets are always stored in dirty locations. Clean things like personal packs, and water - these are almost always stored in the same positions on any particular vehicle - in the clean spots. That's why following pictures is so important.
And now you’ve got a 200 dollar model!😂 That’s my only complaint about painting armor, it’s so expensive after you get all the after market stuff! But it does look pretty damn good
Dragon has always been a mixed bag. Instructions frequently require additional research to determine exactly where the vague arrow is pointing. They still have some of the most accurate Panthers, Pz. IVs, and Tigers available. I like their kits (but not the prices) but are best for an experienced modeler with good references.
@workbenchhobbies4316 No, but I have built up the hull of their Pz.Jg. I, and it went together well. Keep those references handy because it can be difficult for a manufacturer to mate together what are essentially two different kits.
Yeah...they are a little out of control aren't they! In saying that there is a heap of second hand and older kits always available at shows and on Facebook market place if you wanted to go looking for them. Thanks for taking the time to comment 🙏
I’m curious why you chose to test a Dragon kit then make all those after-market changes (upgrades?) Based on your intro, sounds like sticking to what’s in the kit would have given a better understanding of the pro/con of Dragon offering. 🤔 My most recent Dragon endurance session was a M4A4 Sherman, which was painted as Canadian. It was unnecessarily hard work. Dragon add lots of additional parts for alternate model versions, so you end up with a box full of spare parts. Trouble is, the instruction sheets rarely describe exactly what one of the parts is required for ‘this’ model, as you found. Overpriced, over complicated, under detailed waste of time. But, in Dragon’s defence, they are being challenged for crappiest ‘premium’ maker by Riich… 😤😊
Interesting observation regarding the intro. I hadn’t considered that but you make a good point. I think changing things like the barrel and brush guards doesn’t mask the Dragon build experience though does it? Maybe I need to build a later release out of box and see how that one comes together. Thanks for taking the time to comment 🍺💪
@@workbenchhobbies4316 don’t get me wrong, Clayton, your builds and artwork are always something to learn from. I enjoyed it. Yes, an ‘as is’ comparison would be of interest to some who are not across the various options and problems makers cause themselves.
They used to be great, but when I got my hands on one of their Panzer III kits, I was... dismayed - several parts in the instructions mislabelled, instructions overall unclear and the parts themselves were severely lacking. The same goes for their many, MANY figure kits, with soft details and even mild lines in the parts - filling a crack in the middle of the back of a figure made from I assume not hot enough plastic is no fun way to start building. And that was not the first Dragon kit that was effed up. Unfortunately it seems to me Dragon went for quantity over quality. Granted, they do have a lot of the early WW2 vehicles that better brands like Tamiya not have, but considering the problems I have had, I think I stick to the tried and true high quality kits from especially Tamiya.
Your builds are great, 60 plus years ago I was once told "if you can't say anything good, then don't say anything" , let's set that aside for a few minutes. You asked, so I will comment. My experience with Dragon kits has been atrocious to say the least, I built at least 4 Dragon kits and each one of them had instruction issues. These were the kits from the late 80s / early 90s (DML). Russian and German armor alike had issues with where does this part go, back then the internet was not what it is today, so in some cases reference material was not available to me. Like a bad date (when I was single), this left me with a "no thanks" feeling for Dragon kits. Other model builders in my club / group tell me to give Dragon kits another try. No thanks, there are too many other manufacturers out there with equally good detailed kits. Sorry if this comment steps on anybody's toes. Just being honest.
@@zulerodoeht329 fair enough. You’re relating your experience which we cannot dismiss. It adds to the information which others can make value judgments on. 👍🏻
You aren’t stepping on anyone’s toes at all. They are valid points. You aren’t the first modeller to adopt the ‘no thanks’ policy 🤣. Life’s too short to build bad kits. Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts
Great stuff. I was really just asking the question to see others experiences. I think the models present well…they can just make you work a little harder than some 😀
Dragon has yet to correct their issues with kit instructions. I'm finishing up their M7 Priest MID and have run into numerous incorrectly numbered parts. Wrong sprue letter, wrong number, etc. The chassis was no problem, but the very complex howitzer is not adequately covered in the illustrations. Several times I had to guess where a part lined up, only to have to go back, reapply glue and tear the pieces apart because the next assembly wouldn't line up. Their kits look great, but the overly high part count for sub assemblies and vague instructions really detract.
@@workbenchhobbies4316 Yes, But for example i saw a Dragon 1/35kit of an SDKFZ 234/4 for about eightyfour EURO's and the new brands like RFM and Mini Art too especially the last few years. The Tamiya JSU -152 does 65 Euro's, Their Char B1 around eighty as well. These are not prices for someone to ''have a go'' so to speak. These are shop prices and on shows somewhat cheaper. bargains could be found on the internet, but going out to shop is more fun.
Bro, you know who stocks this model still? I really need a couple more! My experience with this particular kit was.... not bad. I went in fearing the worst, but was overall pleasantly surprised. I did not use the rubber tracks as I was building the IDF Cartoon tank (I did Pluto). I wouldn't recommend this kit to beginners, but anyone with some kits under their belt should be able to handle it. Basically just stay true to the mantra of building any kit, check fit check fit check it. LOLX
That’s a sound mantra 🕉️ 🙌🏼 I believe Dragon are rereleasing it with additional parts…but I’m sure you’d pick one up on a swap and sell table somewhere.
Outside of the instructions, i've never had issues with dragon kits. Research and common sense are definitely needed. Haha. I think of dragon as a tamiya kit with far more parts and crappy directions. Bronco and Miniart have the patents on over engineering. I have built more than 30 dragon kits in the past 20+ years and outside of a warped gun shield on a US halftrack and those rubber tracks being too long, never had build issues. They are definitley not for the beginner. Just because of the instructions(mostly) alone which is quite sad add in that today there are accurate kits that are so much cheaper than Dragon kits that i really do not see them selling more. Takom is just releasing a new blitz line that has less parts than their regular blitz line and their new panther has metal.gun barrel and deck dcreens for way under 40 US. Dragon adds a couple 3d parts and the price jumps to 80/90 US. That is bonkers! You can get the same 3d parts for the takom kit and it will still underscore the dragon kut by 30 or 40 US. Everyone has passed dragon. That is the reality.
Hey Will. At those prices it’s hard to imagine how they are justifying their production runs isn’t it? Hopefully they wise up at some point and address the pricing structure because there are a few gems among these rereleases. Agree with the look of that Takom blitz line. Should be a very interesting line. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts 💪
There must of been a Dragon A-team and B-team at the time. Clearly the B-team was put at work on the Shermans initially when the first iterations of the M4A2 76mm version followed by the M4A3 76mm BoB versions came out. A true disappointment in terms certain accuracy aspects and certainly detail aspects. One can still wonder why, but a lack of proper engineering input during the kit design is my best bet. These Sherman kits were certainly improved over the following years, with this M4 version being one of the last ones and with a bit of love and aftermarket or Tasca/Asuka donor parts these can be made into something very acceptable, but still not as good as the Tasca/Asuka Shermans OOB, where the engineering was done brilliantly. Meanwhile Dragon's A-team were in the German subjects producing very good Tigers, Panther G, Pz III, Pz IV, Puma's and a lot more excellent kits that have ardly been improved on by the newer Chinese kit companies. Where it went wrong with Dragon is with the derivatives of the first issues of the aforementioned German kits, these were mostly bashed together from various sprues, zimmerit upgrades and very bad instructions, again caused by a lack of proper engineering input. Suggest that everyone does his research into these kits before splashing out the cash and diving in. Great video and love the subject and topic👍
Telling the truth I like Dragon but it's rather specific kind of like. Redundant parts? Well, I love vechicles based on Skoda LT38 so seeing half of sprues from other versions isn't something I would consider as drawback. Overengineered? Definitely. Instruction? Well, I like tanks with interior and if I can I choose kit with interior I will choose such. Never faced their kit in which instruction was good, always were some problems, often I must help myself with literature. Lack of paints for interior is another case. Here is drawback. Another case. Mixure of sprues sometimes had strange results. Like Bergehetzer or Vollkettenaufklarer 7.5cm had new parts and old parts from 20 years. Price. In my country Dragon is often pretty overpriced from some time, Well, I do not have addictions so models are ok I think. I would say that most of their kits are not beginner friendly. Beginner friendly is Tamiya but not Dragon. I like some exotic subjects and they frequently make some very obscure vechicles from famous types like Hetzer SiG SPG or Panzer IV MLRS. No opinion about warships or airplanes. So far my rate for kits I made is pretty good. I build 3 Ka-Mi tanks, 1 Firefly, 4 Hetzers, 2 Marders, 3 SPG's, 1 Aufklarungspanzer 38t, 1 Ha-Go, 1 Panzer IV MLRS, 1 Borgward, 1 Ka-Tsu. Problem were tracks for Ha-Go which disintegrated after 2 years on shelf. You should see me when I touched tank. Stilll I must somehow mount new tracks. I had on mind their set 2in1 Panzer IV and Bergepanzer IV and my question is did it's two models or one model of choice? I see it has two hulls but not sure about wheels and tracks. So far their 2in1 sets had tank and set of figures so not exactly same example.
People's hate toward Dragon is mostly groupthink. The issues they claim to have with Dragon kits I've experienced with Takom kits. I've actually had more fun and less aggravation with Dragon than with Takom actually.
You could be on to something there...and I think its safe to say that a lot of these issues are kit dependant...and that stems across every manufacturer. The old A team vs B team 😁 Thanks for taking the time to comment
I agree the instructions are misleading. A lot of investigation and being wary of the item being glued. I don't like the photo etch being it is thin and breaks easy. The DS plastic is not great for many details outside of the tracks better to use after market.
I've never had too bad an experience with Dragon,..but looking at it from a pure accuracy point of view...$100 for this kit then all the extras you spent probably close to another 100 buckaroos on and its a bloody costly model.
It seems to be a detail a lot of people are pointing out. The kit was $30 from a swap and sell table…but there’s about $150 in aftermarket…..so you are pretty close to the mark. Yeah, there’s a bit tied up in it but it’s how I like to build. Maybe I should spell out the investment going into these builds in coming videos? Do you think people would be interested?
My experience with dragon kits have been a mixed bag but mostly, negative. For example on their infantry line, I absolutely HATE with a passion the fact that they literally slice every single part of a human body from face to sometimes feet other than to give the builder some flexibility (I think) in probably the positioning of limbs but that doesn’t make sense for a face! I understand that they want their parts to be the best and I also have my frustration with tamiya on their facial expressions being just plain. But that works if you get a nice build that’s straightforward because I mean everything is over engineered. Even the gear is split like into two parts for reasons. As for hardware like tanks, I adventured into the realm of artillery and its also a mixed bag. I build the 105mm howitzer and it was a pain in the sense that it was a huge amount of guesswork but then idk where in the process I made the mistake but I couldn’t initially make the gun barrel face straight up until multiple “bends” and adding glue to keep those bends to make it face upward as in firing position. I also built the lefh 10cm German howitzer and it was somewhat more easier than the 105 but (due to the instructions) had to literally guess where and how to put parts in my model because in the instructions, it wasn’t there! Not even going to 3rd parties helped me till I watched a historical picture of the gun but because I did that… I forgot to place like those connection arms that gun shields have behind attaching them to the actual gun. I do like that sometimes they do look (all dragon models that I have done here) somewhat better compared to trumpeter or tamiya… but I’ll sacrifice that over simplicity because a simple, easy to do model is better for the hobby than a guessing, over engineered model. But that’s my huge cup of tea on the topic. Nice model btw! 😂
The question seems to have polarised the community hasn’t it? I guess people look for different things in kits don’t they. I’m glad to hear you have had positive experiences 👍☝️
bad?!, i guess im getting old and times have changed, i remember them as the new hotness that this kid couldnt afford with his monogram / revelle budget
Dragon Models: I love 'em, I hate 'em! I have built some Dragon kits and have quite a few in the stash. Instructions are the worst part for me. Yes, they over-engineer and also UNDER-ENGINEER their models i.e. fit issues brought on by poor engineering & design. They do build into some great models, being a veteran of a few kits I know what to expect and how to prepare for a Dragon build. I definitely have a "love/hate" relationship with Dragon 😂
You’ve nailed it when you say you ‘have to prepare for a Dragon build. I wish I’d have had that info before I’d started. But they can build into a nice model can’t they? Completely get that love/hate thing 🍺
Fortunately my models are only seen by me or my younger relatives so if they are considerable less than perfect who cares. When I get one right it's fantastic but my wife tends to be unimpressed.
If you're going to test the quality of the kit manufactuer you certainly couldn't tell by this video because of all the upgrades. Build it out of the box then you can say they are bad kits.
@@workbenchhobbies4316 yes I watched the whole thing, read your title, and comments. If you're trying to prove if a kit is good or bad - build it out of the box WITHOUT adding after market accessories that cost more than the model. You've compared nothing. If you can't take the heat in the kitchen stop cooking.
@@workbenchhobbies4316 yes I watched the whole video. Read you re title and comments if you are going to judge a kit if its good or bad, build it out of the box and not add accessories that cost more than the kit. If you can't take the heat in the kitchen stop cooking.
Never built a dragon kit - mainly due to the bad rap they seem to get. I guess with Dragon kits you have to use your modelling skill to get the results..
I rather have an extremely neutral view of this company. Sometimes their price is not worth their quality, it's hard to find, and they cost as much as an airplane wing. I had a British Sherman and I loved it, but the T-34 of 1940 - I was disappointed, it has no option to make in the marching version - for this buy add-ons. Unlike other companies they have a whole line of very rare vehicles that no other company makes. And if there is an option for similar models, in 50% of cases it's not worth not buying a dragon. Sometimes a conversion will cost more than an already finished plastic model.
@@workbenchhobbies4316 I just recently put together a Japanese Ha-go and chi-he for an acquaintance. The models themselves are nice, but the tracks spoil everything. And when I found out the price for one model. ( Seriously, a model with interior from RFM in the store can be bought with add-ons for those prices and still add the crew. ) In my case the Sherman will be from asuka or border models. Yes, the company has made a breakthrough in modeling, I appreciate that, but I certainly won't buy their models if there is a replacement for an adequate price. For me the best so far would be RFM, takom, meng and magic factory. Trumper and tamiya are still weekend models for me that need to be completed with my own hands. Yeah, grammar I have a pretty bad, still English is not my second language.
I build Dragon kits in 1/72 and love them. Tough the instructions are made by mentally challenged minions, that’s for sure. Those tracks also crumble in time.
No. What I highlighted was the options with no explanation as to when to use them but probably more than that, options included that weren’t suitable for the kit in the box. Pair that with a few holes in the instructions and it’s no wonder people struggle. I don’t think I ever said the kits were bad did I? Appreciate you taking the time to comment. Hope you are enjoying the channel 💪🍺
Hey Sven - Clearly I have said something to upset you, but I think you are missing my point. I'd always look into the subject before starting a build, but like with anything, new detail comes to light the deeper you dig, and I found it frustrating that there were options noted in the instructions for something that should never have been on that model of tank. A lot of people wouldn't care or even know, but I thought it was worth highlighting the fact because this is one of the main frustrations around Dragon kits and something that tripped me up along with misleading details in the instructions. Would it stop me building a Dragon kit ? No way. I think there is a lot to like about them. I didn;t realise this video would be so polarising! As always, I appreciate your comments.
@@workbenchhobbies4316 I'm not upset at all. But I do think that if you start digging into the subject you'll find that sometimes those parts were used on that model of a tank. Now, if the kit sells you on building a particular individual vehicle, say Rommel's Greif, that would be different.
not sure how old is this kit and you are, if you insist on comparing dragon kits with precious hop-up kits, lol Well Dragons were the best when they first appeared in 1990s, while Tamiya was selling their 70s models you cannot imagine how much off they are
Not all kits. The Sherman and M-7 Priest kits stand out as they had fit issues. I finished a Jagdpanther recently and it was better than the former kits. So my guess is that Dragon has learned from their mistakes.
Dragon kits are easily the most detailed kits and far superior to Tamiya i literally have no idea what this weird narrative is in the community? If you want to build childrens lego kits then go do that. Dragon, AFV Club, Takom, RFM, Meng, and Trumpeter for lifeeeeeee.
Hey David. I guess that’s the beauty in the hobby. We all look for different things within it. I’ll build anything…just some kits can fight you harder than others. Thanks for sharing your thoughts
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My experience with the Dragon-Kits are good, very good details, easy to mount. Best regards from old Germany, Saxonia
Hello from Australia to Germany. I love hearing where people are connecting from. Thank you 🙏 Glad to hear your experiences have been positive 💪
Growing up building Dragon kits, they used to be the standard of what 1/35 & 1/72 models should look like. They were not only easy to build, but also affordable too, for a decent price, you get an accurate model with PE parts, figures, and sometimes even metal barrel. But then about 10 years ago, the company became too greedy and started making okay-ish kits for outrageous prices. I stopped buying them because it was just not worth the money anymore, plus some of the new kits also have major flaws. However if you can find their vintage 1/72 Sherman kits for reasonable prices, get it, because they are still the best 1/72 Sherman kits on the market.
I haven’t seen their 72nd scale Sherman. I’ll have to keep an eye out for one. I’ve really been enjoying that scale lately.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts - hope you are enjoying the channel 🙏
affordable? i guess we had different childhoods, they were out of reach of my monogram / revell budget.
@@h.s.lafever3277 back then they were about $15-20 each for 1/35, less than $10 for 1/72. 15-ish years ago.
I can’t recall Dragon kits being that cheap?
Dragon's 1/72 kits are still some of the best around.
Learnt my lesson with Dragon Instructions and always reference online build instructions to find the flaws before glue commitment. It always pays to do this before starting any makers build. I still love Dragon kits over anything else and it's great to see all these re-releases. Great build you have there, I look forward to see the paint job/weathering finish upload given your skill and commitment.
‘Glue commitment’ I’m using that term! 🤣🤣 love it! Thanks for your support and encouragement. Glad to hear you enjoyed the build
Well done, nice work on navigating the instructions!
Plus your upgrades really bring up the level of realism! Bravo!
Thanks Jamie. Too kind. Appreciate your support 🍺
Nice looking build and those images of the tanks with "stowage" look brilliant 😊
Thank you. Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for taking the time to comment 🙏
For me Dragon is the best, especially with Pz IV and Tiger. Not only they are more accurate, but i love the complexity and the number of parts. For me, the best part of the hobby is the construction, not painting.
You make a good point. Different people get their joy in the hobby from different things. For me the construction is just something I have to do to get to paint…it’s not that I don’t enjoy it, but it’s the painting phase that gives me the most joy.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts 👍
You might check out the new Takom Tiger 1's, I think they have pushed Dragon back into 2nd place.
This one? 😬 EVERYTHING you need to know about the Takom Tiger 1 in 1/35
ua-cam.com/video/kPst2KlaPKU/v-deo.html
@@TheSaturnVoh no takom tigers are 2bd to RFM!
You don’t like the Takom Tigers? How come?
hello dear Clayton,how are you?i am in hospital because i had a heart attack and your stunnig assemnly it relieves me;i no appreciate the instrucions of Dragon,to intricate;i build the Hummel Dragon in 1994;their first kit imported in Europe,and the errors on the assembly instructions were numerous!!and their plastic smell the mushroom;yuck!can't wait for your painting;good journey for you and family;cheers Patrick
Patrick! Heart attack! Mate! Hope you are ok?! Get well mate.
@@workbenchhobbies4316 thanks you my dear that's very kind,i'm a little better;cheers Patrick🤗
@@westring8119 hope you make a quick and full recovery.
Love this community 😍
Wow fantastic work buddy - I’ve a Tamiya Sherman - i gotta build it, great video.
Thank you. Glad you enjoyed it. I think the Tamiya kit will be a breeze compared to this one 😉
Hi there, ofc I do recognise your frustration with dragon, we all do. Here is my 2 cents: They make beautifull kits with terrible manuals. I have build a few 1/32 Bf 109E's and 110D/E's and they are absolutely gorgeous, some of the best kits around. I also recently build a Sd Kfz 7 that, had I not watched some video's about it, could have turned into a disaster. So it's a bit like a minefield 😂 Cheers from Rotterdam!
The ‘Dragon minefield’. I love that term 🤣 Thanks for joining in the conversation 👍
BTW, forgot to compliment you on the Sherman Clayton! Another great build, look forward to seeing the next installment. And, I must find this one to add to my growing collection of Dragon armour kits!
Thanks Jim. I believe this kit is being rereleased with upgrades. Might be worth keeping an eye out for. Can’t imagine it will be cheap though.
Thanks again for your support 🙏
Nice work mate!
Dragon’s kits aren’t that bad but good references are essential for great results.
Have heard that their DS vinyl tracks are no good and that the material breaks down with age.
The rear idlers have always been a weak spot with poor fitting but otherwise the builds are really solid.
Mind you I nearly replace everything with aftermarket parts including the tracks.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts Michael. Appreciate you joining in 💪
I half made their Churchill with DS tracks. They snapped, pre-heating with hot water didn't help.
Annoying given their 1/72 kits are the same price as a 1/35 from others.
I also made their Sherman V Firefly and the sprocket is too high. It's not obvious until it is too late and cutting and respositioning it doesn't seem to help, perhaps it is slightly too large.
But I credit Dragon one thing: when they came along in the early 90s model building was stagnant: just a few new releases a year. Dragon really shook things up.
Oh man! Didn’t they what! I remember being blown away when they hit the market. Pretty cool
I'm game for any dragon model kits up for grabs! Who wouldn't be on board with that? I stock up on extra aftermarket parts for all my builds, so I usually skip the instructions. With over 40 years in the game, I'm a seasoned model builder with countless completed kits. #ModelKitMaster #ExpertBuilder #DragonModel love any challenges .
Those are some impressive hashtags! 😉 Thanks for joining in 🍺
Hi, Nice work, just found your channel and subbed. Where did you get the 3D printed track skids or did you design them yourself?
I tried going to your website to see if you sold them but you domain has expired.
Cheers, Mark
Hi Mark. I let the website go. It was costing too much for the hosting. The file is on cults3d. If you head there and do a search I’m sure it will pop up. Good luck 🤞 👍
@@workbenchhobbies4316 Ok, Thanks for the info. Way back in the day when I first got on line around 1995-96, internet providers used to give you some free web space to create your own site. Guess those days are long gone.
Keep those great videos coming.
Issue was I was selling mask sets there and the ‘shop’ setup was the expensive bit 😒
@@workbenchhobbies4316 I found that file on Cults. Sorry to hear that it was too expensive to set up an online shop.
There should think of the small business more. Have you considered Etsy?
I may get the shop going again in the future if this community grows to a point to warrant it. It’s set up there ready to be turned on again. I just have to pay the subscription 🫣
Looking great so far! I've built a few Dragon kits and don't mind them (especially their Panzer 38t variants) but those damned instructions require serious study before cutting anything off the sprue. They are a good way of building up the spares box too! Built a Panzer IV that came with enough parts to nearly build another one.
Hey Jason. I recently sold the full interior pz38…wish I had have kept it 😢. Those superfluous parts are a lot aren’t they?! Thanks for joining in the conversation
@@workbenchhobbies4316 , that pz38 is very, very nice and I've already drooled all over it mate 😉
😬
Excellent video sir, I love Dragon kits, but as you mentioned, they are getting too expensive, so I don't have a stash anymore. Regards from North Wales, UK. Happy modelling.
Hey David. Yeah, the new releases are getting ridiculous aren’t they! In saying that there are usually a heap of second hand kits available on eBay and at swap and sells if you were wanting to work on that stash again 😉
Хорошо получилось, спасибо за то что показали смесь клея с шпаклёвка возьму на заметку! RU
My pleasure. Glad you found it useful. I’m really happy with how the paintwork turned out…so be sure to watch this weeks video 🍺
Ive built some Tigers and a Stug, and I never had any problems with their kits, yeah instructions can be a little irritating sometimes, but nothing you can’t get over. In my opinion they still make some of the best Tiger I’s and King tiger kits out there.
Thanks Kevin. I have a few of their Tigers and KTs in the stash. Maybe it’s time to give them a go. Appreciate your input 🙏🍺
Hi Clayton, great video as always. It’s been several decades since I’ve built a Dragon AFV but I’ve recently built a couple of their WW1 aircraft and apart from some gap issues and old style steel pe parts they weren’t too bad.
I do have some Dragon ships in the stash that look a bit daunting though.
Hey Craig. Thanks for joining in. Those old Ww1 planes would have to be 30years old now wouldn’t they? They were pretty ground breaking at the time if I remember correctly 🤔
Yeah mate, about 1992 if I’m not mistaken! Good for their time bout showing their age now.
Like me 😉
Very nice kit, well realized. 👌
But I couldn't do anything with the rubber tracks. I only use Friul.
Not sure if you watched all the way , but I mentioned I had tracks on the way and just fitted those as a temporary thing. Looking forward to presenting the finished model for you all in a couple of weeks
@@workbenchhobbies4316 Oh, I must have missed that, I'm curious to see what happens next. Thank you for pointing that out to me 👍
No worries…but a quick update…these Trex tracks are driving me insane!
Excellent video!
Thanks for the watch! 🙏
Love all the added details!
Thanks you. Glad you enjoyed the video 👍🙏
The coupla being either the split hatch or later single piece isn't the most relevant detail since both were possible because tankers did scavenge parts but I think they just gave the option to be a little cheaper (fewer parts to change out with different models)
100% the ‘options’ are on there to cover multiple boxings. Its the dragon way 😬 Thanks for taking the time to comment ☝️
I built several Dragon models over the years and my experience in general is positive. They have ups and downs, some kits have issues, but I buy only those that have good feedback, so I never got disappointed. Sure, the instructions often do suck, but with another kit bulit you learn to understand "the Dragon way". I'm currently building the Sd.Kfz. 7/2 (6553) and I must say it's a great kit and I'm really enjoying gluing the parts together.
Great news. ‘The Dragon Way’! You really need to trade mark the term. Explains it perfectly 👌🏼
This video just became one of my all time favorite videos. Cause at 5:57 your reference picture is my Great Uncles tank. At least a Sherman done up to look like it.
As for Dragon kits, I have a love/hate relationship with them. I've built a number of them and all but one have had at least something wrong in the instructions. I built one of their M1A1 Abrams kit and the DS tracks were inches too long. I did have some problems with their Tarawa Sherman. On the other hand I believe it was the Ha Go tank I built and it went together beautifully. I also really like the half-track kits I've built. I tend to avoid their really old kits, which I find pretty bad. I hate their DS tracks and I avoid any of their kits that come with them. Give me Magic Tracks any day. I think they build up into a really nice model, once you get passed the normally terrible instructions. I haven't built one recently, but I have roughly 60 of them gathering dust in my stash, waiting on me to buy aftermarket tracks to replace the many that unfortunately have DS tracks.
Firstly- awesome story about your uncle. I’m hoping you’ve built the model of his tank? I love those connections that make a build personal.
Second…that HaGo is making its way up my build list very fast…so it’s interesting you mentioned that one ☝️
Great build. Just one minor concern. There seemed to be a lot of after market parts used. The price of the kit may have greatly increased.
Hey Neil. Thanks for your observation. You are certainly not the first to highlight that and it’s something I’m going to be mindful of with future builds. In saying that, I’m building these the way I enjoy my models, so I’ll definitely still use aftermarket, but maybe I should highlight along the way what it’s adding to the build.
I’d encourage you to watch the next video in the serious though because I address the aftermarket in that one.
Appreciate you taking the time to comment 🏆🍺🙏
@ I am in awe of your ability and the way you present info. Obviously you were very aware of extra costs. Keep up the great work
Thanks mate. Glad to have you as part of the community 👍
I’m just barely finishing dragon kit 6495 the Ferdinand Kursk 1943 premium and boy does this kits have its ups ands downs mostly with the photo etch fenders which are just thin pieces of metal and I had to do surgery just to make them fit right with semi thick pieces of copper and could barely make out some steps of the instructions but a decent kit for its price
Sounds like a lot of people are having similar experiences. Can’t deny they can build into a nice model though. Thanks for your comments 🙏
Another great modeling video with your ever amusing inserts. I do have a few Dragon or Cyberhobby (which I am sure is a Dragon kits, too) kits in the stash. The Shermans I have are a mixed bag when it comes to accuracy as the Dragon Tarawa kit has the wrong color markings and the Cyberhobby is a variant of Sherman used in Burma but comes with a European tank crew, ha, ha! Your Sherman looks outstanding and I look forward to the next video and I am curious how many Aussie Dollars you put into your kit? Also, when it comes to being gobsmacked (love that word) on the details, Mini Art kits look to be a challenging brand too.
How much have I spent in aftermarket…Good question… maybe $150 😳 Glad to hear you have been enjoying the content 🙏
great presentation.
Thanks Charles 🙏
One of the big advantages of Dragon was (still is?) their range of subjects and variants - they do quite a few subjects that no other company produces in plastic. For example, I'm about to start the Heuschrecke 10 "Grasshopper". That said, I wouldn't turn to Dragon as my first choice for something common.
No denying they have produced some amazing subjects. I’ve always wanted to build their Bison. 1 or 2. Thanks for sharing your thoughts 👍🙏
I have built several Dragon Shermans, so I don't really follow the instructions anymore, so that is not an issue for me. I did try building the M-7 Priest, I found that the instructions were so bad that I reached the point of frustration,,,,that kit has been shelved. Maybe I will build up the courage to pick it up again at some point.
Oh! Interesting about the Priest. I have that in the stash and often dream of building that. Love that vehicle! Sounds like I’d better prepare myself before tackling it 🤣 Thanks for sharing you experiences 👍🍺
@@workbenchhobbies4316 When you build it look for Good References!!! Especially the shield mount to Gun... Nothing in the Instructions!
I love Dragon Kits, but I've also learned to find and use references! I know the Vehicle before I start. And I collect all of those 'extra' parts for other makers kits! Especially Shermans and Pz IV based!
Great advice. Thank you 🙏🍺
Click so fast when i see a Workbench upload!
What an awesome thing to hear. Thank you. You’ve made my day 🙏
I have built several Dragon/DML kits over the years in all of their genres and enjoyed them all. I would say that they raised the bar for modeling when most of their kits were first released. While they can seem over-engineered, their level of detail was better than the competition at the time, even though you really needed to pay attention to the instructions. There are certainly better kits available today, and at better prices, but when they were first released the kits were a bargain as they included photoetched parts where other manufacturers offered them separately.
Hi Scott. They certainly changed the game didn’t they! It’s a shame their new releases aren’t a little more competitively priced, because I think a lot of the things people complain about may be excused at a lower price point 🤔
Thanks for sharing your thoughts 🙏
Here's some advice about removing 3D printed parts from sprue. Before removing, dip whole 3D print into hot/warm water. It become softer and less fragile, So it can be removed easily.
Thats great advice - thank you! Ill have to give that a try
@@workbenchhobbies4316 definitely try! I've got this information from owner of Firma49 which is specialized in 3D printed products for modellers and it works 🙂
Thanks again.
Very nice build.👍🏽👍🏽Can't wait to see that cool paint job on it!!You persevered through the Dragon kit.😁 To be honest, I've only had a problem with one Dragon Sherman kit, and it was one the Cyberhobby types. Alot of the parts, especially the lower hull and upper hull did not match up. 😢 So I shelved it. I do like the Dragon Shermans, and anytime I build any Sherman kit, I go to 'Son of Sherman' books for reference.
Now my really big issue is the TRex accessories. I'm not impressed as I've found that on occasion the material is too, too brittle and breaks easily. I have had this issue on a few of their accessories, after spending some serious greenbacks on them. 💸💸💸
They have their ups and downs, but sometimes they seem to be the only Shermans out their besides the awesome Asuka kits.
Completely agree that the Trex parts are expensive and brittle. Someone suggested soaking them in water for 15 mins softened them and allows them to be removed more easily.
Thanks for bringing forth how bad their instructions are. Sherman’s were the better ones. Try a “Black Label “ many modelers have had issues with the Dragon Styrene coming apart and poor fit of major parts
Ah yes! The fabled Black Edition! I’ve never had the pleasure 😬 Sounds like I’ve dodged a bullet! Appreciate your comments 👍🍺
Good video, but the amount of after market did you have used had tripled the cost of the kit
It’s interesting. You are the third person to highlight that. I hadn’t really considered the amount of aftermarket. The video was never about cost of the kit. I paid $30 for it on a swap and sell table. It was more about the challenges of the design and instructions that seem to be a recurring theme with these Dragon kits.
Appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts 👍
Ahhh .. Dragon .. I love them, but so does my reference books , you think there are lots of options on the Sherman, try their late Panther kit lol. In a way it is great to have so many options in one kit , you just need to study the instructions to make sure that all the options can work together. It would be nice if they gave us a clue what would go with what but hey.. what can you say? LOL!
I think you are right. It’s good to have the options there for sure…but some explanation as to how and when to use them would be nice wouldn’t it ! 😩 Thanks for taking the time to share 💪🙏
Hi again Clayton! I have built a few Dragon kits, with varying success. I now stay away from them for the very reasons you mention here. I think they are over-engineered and overpriced, but they do have a great range of kits available. The thing that turns me away from buying Dragon kits the most, is the price you have to pay for a kit. I just can’t afford to pay over $100 for a particular kit, when I know I can buy a similar kit for a lot less from another brand. On the positive side of Dragon kits, I now have a boxfull of spare parts harvested from all the leftover ‘not used’ bits from each kit. Cheers for now mate!
Hey Gary. Great to hear from you. Like you said…great range, shame about the price. Thanks for joining in 🙏
I love the redundant parts. It allows me to use them on another tank or to make roadside tank litter.
I think you either love them or hate them... great to hear you are making use of them ! Thanks for sharing your thoughts
@@workbenchhobbies4316 I recently succeeded in making a Tamiya Alate model from a D model and a G model but needed parts not offered in either kit. Therefore I used redundant parts from a Dragon model to complete my kit!
Nice! 👌🏼
Hi Clayton, your sherman looks fantastic. I wish dragon would re tool their kits as they are getting long in the tooth now and yet they are still asking top dollar for them. I've just bought a sherman from ryefield. but I did look at reviews of the kit before I bought one to make sure it was worth the money spent. I bought a dragon m1aim abrams some years,ago and the thing is covered in flash and the lower hull is cracked at the rear and the instructions don't make sense so I don't think I will buy another dragon kit. cheers Gary uk 🇬🇧
Hey Gary. You know what…I’ve never built a RFM kit! The Sherman does look nice though. Sorry to hear you have had a bad Dragon experience…sounds like you are not alone though! Thanks for your support 🍺
i love the dragon kit line thats all i used to have in my armor model stash built many of them nice work keep them coming
Yeah, I have plenty in my stash too! Thanks so much for taking the time to comment 🙏
@@workbenchhobbies4316 i didn't find them that hard to do not like many other modelers pls they came with many tools n other bits which was good for the price and many options
The bits and pieces were always the coolest part of the kits weren’t they?
I have built many Dragon kits since they became available in my area in 1990 and I love them. I have many in my stash still yet to build. I really think that like bands and other things, Dragon became the "cool" or "in" thing to hate on. Modelers can be a fickle bunch and you may have those with limited skills or patience that start it all due to their own frustration and if it catches on, people run with it. The same thing was happening with Mirror Models which take extra effort and patience but build into beautiful models. Some may not like what I'm saying but that's really what it boils down to.
Modellers a fickle bunch?! Never 🤣🤣 I guess it just depends where you get your joy from the hobby. No doubt they can build into a great looking model.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts 🍺🙏
I live mirror models! I got several of their kits in my stash! I have a thing for ww2 allied & axis logistical vehicles, ie trucks!
I have a couple of kits too but never built one. There’s something cool about those tractors they make isn’t there?
Dragon kits are massively over engineered, the instructions can be confusing and you have to take a fair amount of time reading, understanding and dry fitting the parts! Miniart models are even worse for this! I build a Miniart engine and there were four parts just create a small circular fly wheel!!!!
And what Miniart more confusing, they have their own letter on the runners instead ABCD letters 😅
🤣 yeah.. Miniart can really make you work for a result can’t they?!
Yea but that fly wheel was probably detailed af and looked like a million bucks! Lol
Only to never be seen again because it is hidden under the bonnet/hood of a truck! 😂
True
I am building a Dragon kut now, and i get a headache thinking about it, every step you have to look 20 times, look at reference images where some parts need to go
I feel for you 😬 Having reference pictures on hand is a necessity when attempting a Dragon kit isn’t it. Good luck with it. Which kit are you building?
Hi Clayton, I don't mind Dragon but the price is a large factor for me, and yes the instructions can be a problem, I build a lot of Jagdtiger kits and the Dragon 2 in 1 kit was terrible, the details were chunky compared to other kits, sadly that kit found it's way into the bin, also those tracks they use break after a while and need to be replaced with something better.
Hey John. Yeah…their price point is a little tough to swallow isn’t it! Thanks for your comments 💪
Try soaking the T-Rex vision guards in water for about fifteen minutes. That softens the material that the guards are made of. They then are easier to remove from their carrier sheet. Don’t worry about them loosing their shape. After they dry they will revert to their original shape.
Oh! Interesting 🧐 I’ll definitely give that a try. Thanks for the tip!
Hi Clayton, thanks for the video and I look forward to seeing you paint and weather the Sherman.
To answer your question I think Dragon kits were novel and exciting when they started coming out in the early mid 90’s but haven’t improved much since then, certainly not in comparison to new brands released since then. They have not learned or chosen not to improve and innovate and just re-release old kits with new sprues and call it a whole new kit with 2 in 1 or 3 in 1 options.
I haven’t bought one of their newer kits in at least the last 5 years as they are incredibly overpriced compared the their competitors who provide more accurate kits with better engineering and clearer more logical instructions.
In short, it’s a hard pass for me for Dragon kits. In any event I have more than enough of their kits in my stash but have preferred to try my hand at other kits like Meng, RFM and others.
I’d have to say that Tamiya are my favourite kits to build because they’re beautifully engineered and fit so well. Sure, they’re not as detailed and don’t offer the variety of subjects that other manufacturers do but I’m not a purist or rivet counter and now just build every now and then for relaxation and enjoyment.
Thanks again for all your videos. They’ve given me a new lease on my hobby life and are a great source of inspiration and encouragement.
Best, Mick
Hey Mick. Great to hear from you. Pleased to hear you are getting your modelling mojo back. Appreciate your in depth thoughts and input and I’m so pleased to hear you are getting some value from the content. Thanks again for joining in mate 👍🙏🍺
@@workbenchhobbies4316 thx brother, I’ve been watching your videos lately and you’ve inspired my modelling mojo again 👍🍻
You’re a talented modeller mate. Get amongst it! 👌🏼☝️
My local hobby shop had a dozen of these sitting on the floor, all 1/2 off. Never picked one up though.
It’s not a bad kit if you know what to look out for. If you can get it for a good price it might be worth considering 🤔
The only dragon kit I have built was a sea venom from their cyberhobby brand (I think that was the name, I'm not 100% sure this was years ago now) it was a simple build with good detail but I remember some of the assemblies being quite fiddly and I think I had to do so e surgery to get the cockpit tub to fit properly in the fuselage, but otherwise I don't remember having issues with it, I have steered clear of their 1/35 armour kits though as I have read plenty about poor fit and confusing/outright misleading instructions
Hi Simon. I remember the Sea Venom kit. Great memory but sounds like it gave you some grief! Thanks for sharing your thoughts
I've built Dragon Coelian (Panther Ausf G chassis with a twin machine gun turret for AA purposes) together with RFM Panther Ausf G in the same time and pace (both in 1/35). The Dragon kit was released in the mid-90s, the RFM only a few years ago (distance is around twenty-some years between the two kits). The Dragon kit was rather a nostalgic build, feeling more inferior compared to RFM kit in every aspect (level of details, precision of assembly, offerings in the kit). If there is another (newer) kit on the market, then these Dragon kits only worth purchasing for their mighty Ron Volstad graphics. That is my personal opinion drawn from one single experience.
Great comparison. And yes…Volstad’s work has been responsible for many a kit sale hadn’t it?! Thanks for joining in 🙏
I know Dragon kits are expensive and they also include lots of extras, they are coming down a little in the UK but still expensive. I would be interested though as you mentioned the price how much all the extras were that you threw at the kit? Not a criticism but more and more you tubers are putting up builds and saying I just added this or that and that's fine it's what I do but it would be interesting to know how much they add to an already expensive kit? Unless you are given them of course. Keep up the great work this isn't a criticism 😁
Hey Gerry. Great question and you are not the only one asking. Maybe I could include those numbers in the next video. I have Trex tracks coming…and they were very expensive. $80aud. Overall I’ve spent about $150aud I’d say. The kit came off a swap and sell table for $30.
I add the extras because I think they look better or better represent what I’m trying to achieve…I appreciate that may be out of reach for some people though, so probably need to be mindful about some of these presentations.
These ones came out of my pocket 😬
That´s an intersting Sherman there, for sure... the 105 variant sometimes seem a little under-appreciated.
As for Dragon kits... in 1/72 they are often said to have set new standards, yet I have only built a couple so far and have a bunch others in stash. Details are often neat and their DS-tracks seem to hold paint better than vinyl, yet I do not trust either. While the instructions might be somewhat unclear in places, building kits from brands as such as UM and ACE have told me to really check the placments well in any case. To be fair, Dragon actually has some really interesting subjects in 72nd scale, as such as the Neubaufahrzeug, a 5,5cm Flakpanther, LRDG Chevy and Ka-Mi amphibious tanks. What has been a bit of a bummer was there being a wave of releases with one-part fully vinyl running gear (I do not know who thought that to be agood idea) mostly distinguished by oragne boxings, but I have successfully avoided those so far.
An interesting area are Dragon´s 1/700 ships, where there are some interesting subjects with overall nice quality as well (German Z-39, USN nuclear cruisers, the modern LCS and others).
In any case, I´m curious to see this Sherman progressing and how you´ll take on the field-applied camo, intereseting weathering opportunities are certainly there 👍Cheers from Germany!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I thought the 105 was a little unappreciated too 😬.
Um / ace…you’re giving me nightmares 🤣
I’ve got two Dragon kits in the stash , still haven’t got to build them yet though , great review
Thanks mate 🙏 Which ones do you have?
@@workbenchhobbies4316 they’re both Stug 3s , I have a thing for Stugs 😀
Completely understandable 😉
@@workbenchhobbies4316 trouble is , I’ve lost my mojo for armour at the minute ,
Again…understandable. It will come back when it’s ready 🤔😬
Dragon has some really good kits and a lot of iffy and not so great kits. One thing Ive noticed is that the first kit in a series was often good, but then as more and more variants with new parts were released the instructions tended to have more and more mistakes and often fit issues would creep in too.
When I got back into the hobby around 2010 or so Dragon was my introduction to 1/35 armor and I still have a soft spot for them, though more than one has ended up in my trash can over the years.
I still look for dragon kits at shows, a lot of the time you can find them $30 or $40. Much better deal than buying them new these days.
You can definitely pick them up for a reasonable price at the shows. I’d find it hard to pay full price for a new release kit now. I’m not sure who is actually buying them 🤔🫣
Looks cool.
Thank you 🍷
Variable options in a construction kit? How about because they are used for multiple kits including standard machines with the 75mm gun as used by the Brit's in the Nth African desert.
Hey there - thanks for your input. Im all for options in a kit...but its the no explanation with what to use when that I have the issue with. I know why there are so many redundant parts and the variants Dragon offer in other kits.
Lucky you chose the sherman for this video, if you chose the Maultier it tells you to use the Opel blitz ladder chassis on the first page then you go oh no no no… you should’ve used the special one in the box included…
Since the opening steps are just copied and pasted from the Opel blitz kit, instead of changed to suit the Maultier.
Don’t get me wrong my favourite model kits are Dragon, I have a huge supply of them and with some good references and knowledge on the subject they can make a great build. But like you said you definitely need your wits about you and need to tread carefully
Ouch! That’s annoying! Definitely need to keep your wits about you don’t you?!
Dragon are one of the best manufacturers in China to deal with. I used to get loads of great stuff from their outlet surplus store. Happy Days.
Fantastic! Did you have a favourite kit?
@@workbenchhobbies4316 - I am a bigger fan of their 1/6 scale sculptors, especially some of their historical lines.
I had the 1/6 panzer 2 years ago. Wish I had have kept it 😓
Dragon’s model kit every design are modular. In the old days, with the pre-stamped PE parts and additional metal components included. No other manufacturers can even offer that same detail kits.
Dragon should be the first manufacturer to provide plastic assembly tracks, named “magic track”. Came with a little plastic bag full of pre-cut tracks. If you’re crazy enough, drill holes on each piece. You could have a movable track.
But now, more and more manufacturers use them as reference kits to build their products. With better instructions, fewer parts, similar details. Dragon advantages have become narrower.
Those modular designs keep adding up spare parts and price. Also the rubber track came with the Dragon kit, aging too fast. If you’re unfortunate, the track could be broken inside the box. And they don’t have a good customer support. It could take months to get your replacement from them outside Asia.
Not all of the kits come with magic tracks, dragon likes to put them with the first batch or so called the “limited edition”. If your rubber track breaks, you have to buy after market stuff.
Dragon seems to notice that, they bring back the metal barrels, PE, and magic track as standard now. Reproduction those retired legend kits in a different product numbers. Mark the kits at a reasonable prices too. (Half price from the peak).
So if you have enough time, want to build a Panzer IV with nearly thousands parts. Dragon should be your best choice.
Thanks for your detailed and thoughtful insights. A few people have now spoken about the panzer 4…maybe I need to check that out. 🥳
Stowage is tricky, and I think you missed the mark here in some ways. First, no tank crew is gonna stow their gear in a way that limits the gun traverse. If there is one thing to take home about armor combat, it is often the guy who shoots first that wins. These guys know that. Second, the gear has to be secure. It wants to fall off during combat (when people have a tendency to get excited and drive like crazy people). If it falls off, its gone. These vehicle have to traverse sudden inclines on a regular basis. Tree branches have a way at grabbing at things when you drive past. And the most important part, gear must be organized. Dirty things like oil cans and camo nets are always stored in dirty locations. Clean things like personal packs, and water - these are almost always stored in the same positions on any particular vehicle - in the clean spots. That's why following pictures is so important.
Appreciate your input as always. You make some great points 💪
And now you’ve got a 200 dollar model!😂 That’s my only complaint about painting armor, it’s so expensive after you get all the after market stuff! But it does look pretty damn good
Yeah…you could be on to something there 🤣 Consider it as me doing my bit to keep the hobby manufactures in business 🫣
gave up on Dragon 6 years ago. too many parts vague instructions bad fit and the rubber tracks they provide always fall apart
Sounds like you are not the only one. Great to see you back here on the channel 😁
Dragon has always been a mixed bag. Instructions frequently require additional research to determine exactly where the vague arrow is pointing. They still have some of the most accurate Panthers, Pz. IVs, and Tigers available. I like their kits (but not the prices) but are best for an experienced modeler with good references.
Maybe it’s time I built a few more I have in the stash. I’ve always wanted to build the Bison. Have you happened to have built that one?
@workbenchhobbies4316 No, but I have built up the hull of their Pz.Jg. I, and it went together well. Keep those references handy because it can be difficult for a manufacturer to mate together what are essentially two different kits.
Great advice. Maybe I’ll pop it back in the cupboard 🤣
Just to expensive now Dragon kits , especially here in Australia..Great kits though..
Yeah...they are a little out of control aren't they! In saying that there is a heap of second hand and older kits always available at shows and on Facebook market place if you wanted to go looking for them. Thanks for taking the time to comment 🙏
I’m curious why you chose to test a Dragon kit then make all those after-market changes (upgrades?) Based on your intro, sounds like sticking to what’s in the kit would have given a better understanding of the pro/con of Dragon offering. 🤔
My most recent Dragon endurance session was a M4A4 Sherman, which was painted as Canadian. It was unnecessarily hard work. Dragon add lots of additional parts for alternate model versions, so you end up with a box full of spare parts. Trouble is, the instruction sheets rarely describe exactly what one of the parts is required for ‘this’ model, as you found.
Overpriced, over complicated, under detailed waste of time. But, in Dragon’s defence, they are being challenged for crappiest ‘premium’ maker by Riich… 😤😊
Interesting observation regarding the intro. I hadn’t considered that but you make a good point. I think changing things like the barrel and brush guards doesn’t mask the Dragon build experience though does it?
Maybe I need to build a later release out of box and see how that one comes together.
Thanks for taking the time to comment 🍺💪
@@workbenchhobbies4316 don’t get me wrong, Clayton, your builds and artwork are always something to learn from. I enjoyed it.
Yes, an ‘as is’ comparison would be of interest to some who are not across the various options and problems makers cause themselves.
Noted
Photo etch rifling. Now I’ve seen it all 😂
It’s the little details that count 😉
They used to be great, but when I got my hands on one of their Panzer III kits, I was... dismayed - several parts in the instructions mislabelled, instructions overall unclear and the parts themselves were severely lacking. The same goes for their many, MANY figure kits, with soft details and even mild lines in the parts - filling a crack in the middle of the back of a figure made from I assume not hot enough plastic is no fun way to start building. And that was not the first Dragon kit that was effed up.
Unfortunately it seems to me Dragon went for quantity over quality. Granted, they do have a lot of the early WW2 vehicles that better brands like Tamiya not have, but considering the problems I have had, I think I stick to the tried and true high quality kits from especially Tamiya.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I think you have hit the nail on the head with ‘quantity over quality’.
Your builds are great, 60 plus years ago I was once told "if you can't say anything good, then don't say anything" , let's set that aside for a few minutes. You asked, so I will comment. My experience with Dragon kits has been atrocious to say the least, I built at least 4 Dragon kits and each one of them had instruction issues. These were the kits from the late 80s / early 90s (DML). Russian and German armor alike had issues with where does this part go, back then the internet was not what it is today, so in some cases reference material was not available to me. Like a bad date (when I was single), this left me with a "no thanks" feeling for Dragon kits. Other model builders in my club / group tell me to give Dragon kits another try. No thanks, there are too many other manufacturers out there with equally good detailed kits. Sorry if this comment steps on anybody's toes. Just being honest.
@@zulerodoeht329 fair enough. You’re relating your experience which we cannot dismiss. It adds to the information which others can make value judgments on. 👍🏻
You aren’t stepping on anyone’s toes at all. They are valid points. You aren’t the first modeller to adopt the ‘no thanks’ policy 🤣. Life’s too short to build bad kits.
Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts
@@workbenchhobbies4316 Cheers, have one on me.
I might even make it two 🍺🍺
Aircraft & particularly their ship kits are generally good but most are 90s molds...
Great stuff. I was really just asking the question to see others experiences. I think the models present well…they can just make you work a little harder than some 😀
Dragon has yet to correct their issues with kit instructions. I'm finishing up their M7 Priest MID and have run into numerous incorrectly numbered parts. Wrong sprue letter, wrong number, etc. The chassis was no problem, but the very complex howitzer is not adequately covered in the illustrations. Several times I had to guess where a part lined up, only to have to go back, reapply glue and tear the pieces apart because the next assembly wouldn't line up.
Their kits look great, but the overly high part count for sub assemblies and vague instructions really detract.
I think you are the third or forth person to mention that kit! It’s a shame cause I’ve always wanted to build that one! ☝️
I don't know, I've built some very nice Dragon Shermans. Definitely better than any Tamiya Sherman kit ever made.
Hey Adam. I’ve only built one Tamiya Sherman, and I can’t argue with you there! Thanks for your comments 🍷
I never had problems with Dragons ''not for use'' parts as in my country armorkits are ridiculously priced anyway.
Where are you from? I think model kits are all getting expensive now no matter where you are from.
@@workbenchhobbies4316 Holland.
I’m surprised models are expensive there? You host the best model show in the world!
@@workbenchhobbies4316 Yes, But for example i saw a Dragon 1/35kit of an SDKFZ 234/4 for about eightyfour EURO's and the new brands like RFM and Mini Art too especially the last few years. The Tamiya JSU -152 does 65 Euro's, Their Char B1 around eighty as well. These are not prices for someone to ''have a go'' so to speak. These are shop prices and on shows somewhat cheaper. bargains could be found on the internet, but going out to shop is more fun.
84 euro! Ouch!
Bro, you know who stocks this model still? I really need a couple more! My experience with this particular kit was.... not bad. I went in fearing the worst, but was overall pleasantly surprised. I did not use the rubber tracks as I was building the IDF Cartoon tank (I did Pluto). I wouldn't recommend this kit to beginners, but anyone with some kits under their belt should be able to handle it. Basically just stay true to the mantra of building any kit, check fit check fit check it. LOLX
That’s a sound mantra 🕉️ 🙌🏼 I believe Dragon are rereleasing it with additional parts…but I’m sure you’d pick one up on a swap and sell table somewhere.
@@workbenchhobbies4316 Yeah.. 2 in 1 package. Been more than a year 😂 Cannot find another brand that does this exact sherman
Actually guys, Do you know of another brand that does this same exact m4 105mm in 1/35 scale?
Pretty sure Tamiya do a 105?
@@workbenchhobbies4316 nah bro. Take a good look 😂Not all 105s are the same. 👻
Outside of the instructions, i've never had issues with dragon kits. Research and common sense are definitely needed. Haha. I think of dragon as a tamiya kit with far more parts and crappy directions. Bronco and Miniart have the patents on over engineering. I have built more than 30 dragon kits in the past 20+ years and outside of a warped gun shield on a US halftrack and those rubber tracks being too long, never had build issues. They are definitley not for the beginner. Just because of the instructions(mostly) alone which is quite sad add in that today there are accurate kits that are so much cheaper than Dragon kits that i really do not see them selling more. Takom is just releasing a new blitz line that has less parts than their regular blitz line and their new panther has metal.gun barrel and deck dcreens for way under 40 US. Dragon adds a couple 3d parts and the price jumps to 80/90 US. That is bonkers! You can get the same 3d parts for the takom kit and it will still underscore the dragon kut by 30 or 40 US. Everyone has passed dragon. That is the reality.
Hey Will. At those prices it’s hard to imagine how they are justifying their production runs isn’t it? Hopefully they wise up at some point and address the pricing structure because there are a few gems among these rereleases.
Agree with the look of that Takom blitz line. Should be a very interesting line.
Thanks again for sharing your thoughts 💪
@@workbenchhobbies4316 totally with you. They have some really, really nice kits out there but those pesky prices are crazy.
There must of been a Dragon A-team and B-team at the time. Clearly the B-team was put at work on the Shermans initially when the first iterations of the M4A2 76mm version followed by the M4A3 76mm BoB versions came out. A true disappointment in terms certain accuracy aspects and certainly detail aspects. One can still wonder why, but a lack of proper engineering input during the kit design is my best bet. These Sherman kits were certainly improved over the following years, with this M4 version being one of the last ones and with a bit of love and aftermarket or Tasca/Asuka donor parts these can be made into something very acceptable, but still not as good as the Tasca/Asuka Shermans OOB, where the engineering was done brilliantly. Meanwhile Dragon's A-team were in the German subjects producing very good Tigers, Panther G, Pz III, Pz IV, Puma's and a lot more excellent kits that have ardly been improved on by the newer Chinese kit companies. Where it went wrong with Dragon is with the derivatives of the first issues of the aforementioned German kits, these were mostly bashed together from various sprues, zimmerit upgrades and very bad instructions, again caused by a lack of proper engineering input. Suggest that everyone does his research into these kits before splashing out the cash and diving in. Great video and love the subject and topic👍
Fantastic insight! Thanks for sharing. I guess it all comes back to doing your research and knowing what you are in for. 👍☝️
Bruh, amazing job but I am gonna stick to Takom, Rye Field, and Meng.
Very extremely true. Those three manufactuers are the new standard of model kits, Sir.
I completely understand 😉 This range of Sherman’s is part of a group build challenge…so it half chose me 🤫
Never built a RFM kit. Sounds like I need to give one a try 🤔
Telling the truth I like Dragon but it's rather specific kind of like.
Redundant parts? Well, I love vechicles based on Skoda LT38 so seeing half of sprues from other versions isn't something I would consider as drawback.
Overengineered? Definitely.
Instruction? Well, I like tanks with interior and if I can I choose kit with interior I will choose such. Never faced their kit in which instruction was good, always were some problems, often I must help myself with literature. Lack of paints for interior is another case. Here is drawback.
Another case. Mixure of sprues sometimes had strange results. Like Bergehetzer or Vollkettenaufklarer 7.5cm had new parts and old parts from 20 years.
Price. In my country Dragon is often pretty overpriced from some time, Well, I do not have addictions so models are ok I think.
I would say that most of their kits are not beginner friendly. Beginner friendly is Tamiya but not Dragon.
I like some exotic subjects and they frequently make some very obscure vechicles from famous types like Hetzer SiG SPG or Panzer IV MLRS. No opinion about warships or airplanes.
So far my rate for kits I made is pretty good. I build 3 Ka-Mi tanks, 1 Firefly, 4 Hetzers, 2 Marders, 3 SPG's, 1 Aufklarungspanzer 38t, 1 Ha-Go, 1 Panzer IV MLRS, 1 Borgward, 1 Ka-Tsu. Problem were tracks for Ha-Go which disintegrated after 2 years on shelf. You should see me when I touched tank. Stilll I must somehow mount new tracks.
I had on mind their set 2in1 Panzer IV and Bergepanzer IV and my question is did it's two models or one model of choice? I see it has two hulls but not sure about wheels and tracks. So far their 2in1 sets had tank and set of figures so not exactly same example.
Thanks for your thoughtful insight. Sounds like you have got a great build collection there!
People's hate toward Dragon is mostly groupthink. The issues they claim to have with Dragon kits I've experienced with Takom kits. I've actually had more fun and less aggravation with Dragon than with Takom actually.
You could be on to something there...and I think its safe to say that a lot of these issues are kit dependant...and that stems across every manufacturer. The old A team vs B team 😁 Thanks for taking the time to comment
Upgrade any Dragon kit with any other brand kit
🤣🤣 ouch !
I agree the instructions are misleading. A lot of investigation and being wary of the item being glued. I don't like the photo etch being it is thin and breaks easy. The DS plastic is not great for many details outside of the tracks better to use after market.
‘A lot of investigation’. You got that right 😉😁
I've never had too bad an experience with Dragon,..but looking at it from a pure accuracy point of view...$100 for this kit then all the extras you spent probably close to another 100 buckaroos on and its a bloody costly model.
It seems to be a detail a lot of people are pointing out. The kit was $30 from a swap and sell table…but there’s about $150 in aftermarket…..so you are pretty close to the mark. Yeah, there’s a bit tied up in it but it’s how I like to build. Maybe I should spell out the investment going into these builds in coming videos? Do you think people would be interested?
My experience with dragon kits have been a mixed bag but mostly, negative. For example on their infantry line, I absolutely HATE with a passion the fact that they literally slice every single part of a human body from face to sometimes feet other than to give the builder some flexibility (I think) in probably the positioning of limbs but that doesn’t make sense for a face! I understand that they want their parts to be the best and I also have my frustration with tamiya on their facial expressions being just plain. But that works if you get a nice build that’s straightforward because I mean everything is over engineered. Even the gear is split like into two parts for reasons. As for hardware like tanks, I adventured into the realm of artillery and its also a mixed bag. I build the 105mm howitzer and it was a pain in the sense that it was a huge amount of guesswork but then idk where in the process I made the mistake but I couldn’t initially make the gun barrel face straight up until multiple “bends” and adding glue to keep those bends to make it face upward as in firing position. I also built the lefh 10cm German howitzer and it was somewhat more easier than the 105 but (due to the instructions) had to literally guess where and how to put parts in my model because in the instructions, it wasn’t there! Not even going to 3rd parties helped me till I watched a historical picture of the gun but because I did that… I forgot to place like those connection arms that gun shields have behind attaching them to the actual gun. I do like that sometimes they do look (all dragon models that I have done here) somewhat better compared to trumpeter or tamiya… but I’ll sacrifice that over simplicity because a simple, easy to do model is better for the hobby than a guessing, over engineered model. But that’s my huge cup of tea on the topic. Nice model btw! 😂
That’s a great cup of tea mate. Appreciate you taking the time to share 👍😬
I don’t understand the hate? They are great kits
The question seems to have polarised the community hasn’t it? I guess people look for different things in kits don’t they. I’m glad to hear you have had positive experiences 👍☝️
Yes, they are bad. Learnt this from first hand experience.
Oh dear, sounds like you’ve had a bad experience. 😓 In fairness, they can build up into lovely kits…can’t just make you work for it 🫣
Yes. Yes they are. 😅 (No, they're not really).
🤣🤣 thanks for joining in 👍
bad?!, i guess im getting old and times have changed, i remember them as the new hotness that this kid couldnt afford with his monogram / revelle budget
For sure. They were regarded so highly back in the day weren’t they?! Nothing wrong with a mono/revell budget 💪
yup I avoid Dragon kits but still fall for some of the figure kits....box art 😒
Hey Glenn. You wouldn’t be the first to get sucked in by that beautiful artwork! 🤣🤣
@@workbenchhobbies4316 😜
🍺
Dragon Models: I love 'em, I hate 'em! I have built some Dragon kits and have quite a few in the stash. Instructions are the worst part for me. Yes, they over-engineer and also UNDER-ENGINEER their models i.e. fit issues brought on by poor engineering & design. They do build into some great models, being a veteran of a few kits I know what to expect and how to prepare for a Dragon build. I definitely have a "love/hate" relationship with Dragon 😂
You’ve nailed it when you say you ‘have to prepare for a Dragon build. I wish I’d have had that info before I’d started. But they can build into a nice model can’t they? Completely get that love/hate thing 🍺
Fortunately my models are only seen by me or my younger relatives so if they are considerable less than perfect who cares. When I get one right it's fantastic but my wife tends to be unimpressed.
Ah Alan…maybe your wife needs some retraining! 😉 Maybe it’s time to put a big display cabinet in the lounge room? 😬
If you're going to test the quality of the kit manufactuer you certainly couldn't tell by this video because of all the upgrades. Build it out of the box then you can say they are bad kits.
Hmm..did you actually watch it? I don’t recall saying it was bad?!
@@workbenchhobbies4316 yes I watched the whole thing, read your title, and comments. If you're trying to prove if a kit is good or bad - build it out of the box WITHOUT adding after market accessories that cost more than the model. You've compared nothing. If you can't take the heat in the kitchen stop cooking.
@@workbenchhobbies4316 yes I watched the whole video. Read you re title and comments if you are going to judge a kit if its good or bad, build it out of the box and not add accessories that cost more than the kit. If you can't take the heat in the kitchen stop cooking.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts - your input is always welcomed.
If you think that these instructions are a disaster, build one of the 1:350 ships...
🤣🤣 thanks for the heads up! I actually have one in the stash 😳
@@workbenchhobbies4316 Good luck! Scharnhorst, Independence or a destroyer?
It’s a German destroyer from memory
@@workbenchhobbies4316 The word "overengineered" was created for them, especially the light AA guns.
But nice kits anyway, worth the money.
One day maybe 🤔
Never built a dragon kit - mainly due to the bad rap they seem to get. I guess with Dragon kits you have to use your modelling skill to get the results..
Isn't this hobby about using your modelling skills?
I think they get a bit of a bad wrap…a little unfair at times. They aren’t that bad. Thanks for taking the time to comment 👍
I guess that comes down the what you want from your hobby. Some people don’t want to have to fight a kit…and that’s ok 🤷🏻
I rather have an extremely neutral view of this company. Sometimes their price is not worth their quality, it's hard to find, and they cost as much as an airplane wing. I had a British Sherman and I loved it, but the T-34 of 1940 - I was disappointed, it has no option to make in the marching version - for this buy add-ons. Unlike other companies they have a whole line of very rare vehicles that no other company makes. And if there is an option for similar models, in 50% of cases it's not worth not buying a dragon. Sometimes a conversion will cost more than an already finished plastic model.
Can’t argue they have some interesting subjects. As you said though.. can be hit and miss. Thanks for your comments
@@workbenchhobbies4316 I just recently put together a Japanese Ha-go and chi-he for an acquaintance. The models themselves are nice, but the tracks spoil everything. And when I found out the price for one model. ( Seriously, a model with interior from RFM in the store can be bought with add-ons for those prices and still add the crew. ) In my case the Sherman will be from asuka or border models. Yes, the company has made a breakthrough in modeling, I appreciate that, but I certainly won't buy their models if there is a replacement for an adequate price. For me the best so far would be RFM, takom, meng and magic factory. Trumper and tamiya are still weekend models for me that need to be completed with my own hands.
Yeah, grammar I have a pretty bad, still English is not my second language.
Your English is great 👍 A few people have mentioned the HaGo. I have that in the stash. I’ll build that one day I think
I build Dragon kits in 1/72 and love them. Tough the instructions are made by mentally challenged minions, that’s for sure. Those tracks also crumble in time.
So many people have been singing the praises of the 72nd scale kits. I’ll have to try and get my hands on some
So your complaint is you were given options.
No. What I highlighted was the options with no explanation as to when to use them but probably more than that, options included that weren’t suitable for the kit in the box. Pair that with a few holes in the instructions and it’s no wonder people struggle. I don’t think I ever said the kits were bad did I?
Appreciate you taking the time to comment. Hope you are enjoying the channel 💪🍺
@@workbenchhobbies4316 So your complaint is you had to learn the subject?
Hey Sven - Clearly I have said something to upset you, but I think you are missing my point. I'd always look into the subject before starting a build, but like with anything, new detail comes to light the deeper you dig, and I found it frustrating that there were options noted in the instructions for something that should never have been on that model of tank. A lot of people wouldn't care or even know, but I thought it was worth highlighting the fact because this is one of the main frustrations around Dragon kits and something that tripped me up along with misleading details in the instructions. Would it stop me building a Dragon kit ? No way. I think there is a lot to like about them. I didn;t realise this video would be so polarising! As always, I appreciate your comments.
@@workbenchhobbies4316 I'm not upset at all.
But I do think that if you start digging into the subject you'll find that sometimes those parts were used on that model of a tank.
Now, if the kit sells you on building a particular individual vehicle, say Rommel's Greif, that would be different.
All good - Im curious if you made it all the way to the summary at the end of the video ?
can t be worse than my kinetic f16 brakeet kit...
🤣🤣 I have personal experience with that kit 🤣🤣 I concur. Could be the worst kit of all time!
@@workbenchhobbies4316 I managed to do a better job on the 2nd kit i bought as i have failled the first one...😅
If at first you don’t succeed…💪💪💪🍺🙏
not sure how old is this kit and you are, if you insist on comparing dragon kits with precious hop-up kits, lol
Well Dragons were the best when they first appeared in 1990s, while Tamiya was selling their 70s models you cannot imagine how much off they are
Think this one was released in 2010 for what it’s worth. But of course there are a lot of parts in the box from long before that.
Dragon kits = Cruel and unusual punishment. 🙂
🤣🤣 harsh ! Which one hurt you the most?
High parts count and as you mentioned in the video, vague instructions.
So it sounds like they all hurt you. Thought it may have been one kit in particular 🫣
Not all kits. The Sherman and M-7 Priest kits stand out as they had fit issues. I finished a Jagdpanther recently and it was better than the former kits. So my guess is that Dragon has learned from their mistakes.
You are the second person to name the Priest! I’ll be avoiding that one 🤣🤣
Dragon kits are easily the most detailed kits and far superior to Tamiya i literally have no idea what this weird narrative is in the community? If you want to build childrens lego kits then go do that. Dragon, AFV Club, Takom, RFM, Meng, and Trumpeter for lifeeeeeee.
Hey David. I guess that’s the beauty in the hobby. We all look for different things within it. I’ll build anything…just some kits can fight you harder than others.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts