The chat seeing simple mistakes and immediately hounding on the person making them is actually so funny. Something about having a spectator’s perspective and a high level player talking them through the replay makes them think they’re untouchable.
@@harm0ny_ lol it's not even like the master in question was cocky or anything, they just wanted advice to get better. unfortunately though, gold/plat chat wants to use this high level player's mistakes to prove to themselves that they deserve a higher rank themselves
@@jaowq3826 You got it right on the nose. Lower tier players always grip onto mistakes and go “Oh I wouldn’t do that.” Without acknowledging they also wouldn’t make the actual good plays.
That's the thing, you'll get players who say, "bro why you not up front?" Well 1 not all heroes plays frontline and 2 I'm taking way too many hits that i need to back up. Just sucks cause some players' mentality is pretty bad
@@Dat1AsianGuy I definitely get that. The most common problem I have is that when we have an advantage and a frontline push is warranted, nobody commits. Then, after we've used our cooldowns, somebody decides it's a good time to push into the backline because surely the enemy team is also out of cooldowns and vulnerable. Sometimes it does work out, but rarely, and only if everyone runs in at once. Enemy team gets picks, supps try to survive/escape, by the time the rest of the team is back the supps are dead and it snowballs from there.
@@azuresky2301yea I don’t know what rank you are but I used to have this problem when I was low elo around plat I used to never keep track of cooldowns and use my ability blindly usually you want to keep them till your enemy use them and then you counter push.a good example is if your playing zarya you need to be pasient with your buble and used them to clear abilities like naid and that’s basically how I claimed to master Well except if your playing mauga then you can just run it down mid pressing mouse bouton one whill jerking of
Hell, sometimes I play Zarya at mid-line or even backline together with my supports. Not always, of course, because you have to adjust to your team's gameplay, but sometimes I realized that playing backline Zarya is a great strategy. That mostly happens when my teammates are very aggressive (especially if my DPS are dive heroes) and my supports need peeling. Then I kind of play Zarya as a tank/support hybrid where I stay behind, bubble the hell out of my teammates to protect them, shoot my secondary fire, then I go on sudden aggressive bursts of damage when my Particle Cannon is at 100 and the enemies don't have enough cooldowns. It really messes with the enemy's idea of a tank. If I rush too much like the Zarya on this video and my DPS are not with my supports, then they're gonna struggle and, by consequence, they're not gonna be able to heal me and my DPS. By positioning myself behind, I feel a bit like a chess player, bubbling my teammates carefully and then being aggressive when it's the right time. It depends a lot on the map too, of course. I think the takeaway from all this is that you should be able to adjust to many types of gameplay even when you're using the same hero in different matches.
I’m working my way thru Diamond (support) rn and it makes me sad to see that even in Masters tanks still don’t know when to back off and just don’t realize there’s not enough healing to cover their want to be so aggressive
in that same light, though, even masters players make mistakes- and to be a masters ranked player, you don’t have to be perfect!! you’re allowed to mess up it def is still sad, don’t get me wrong- i’m working my way through plat (also support) so seeing diamond and masters games where those players make mistakes (especially related to peeling for supports and the like) is both a little worrisome and a little relieving- as odd as that is lol wishing you luck getting through diamond!! i’m hoping to reach it by the end of the season
the plat chat flaming the missed knives is insane. like do they even play kiriko? even the best kiri's have like a 30% accuracy unless she's allowed to play flank kiri which in the game's current state, isnt really viable unless you're so much better than the entire lobby
i’m gm2 supp but have played a lot of masters games and tbh if i played kiri like this in diamond even.. and missed this many shots + had no impactful dmg at all.. and was this slow to initiate fights with ults.. it would be EXTREMELY hard to win a game. emongg is incredibly forgiving and gives the benefit of the doubt but this is a really bad game and she didn’t do anything at all to help her team in an impactful way. the tank complained about heals but her suzu’s were messy and early, she couldn’t hit a shot.. the only thing she did right was hit half of her ufadas - she should have just healbotted on ana to be more impactful.
@AnEnragedCat ain't no way we see mouse flick all around 11:20 and in general throughout this game and think it's on console. The movement is way to quick and isn't at the same speed for it to be console.
@@muddy_puppy_mofotbh I disagree, I feel like it's a similar principle to Zenyatta, you kind of have to respect that a single Kiriko headshot can take you out of the fight. You have to respect that they exist, and by just existing there as Kiri she's providing pressure (even if she's missing) Yeah Ana would've definitely been better but the Kiriko genuinely didn't play that bad at a positioning/macro level.
@@nixsnowsong6732 you respect they exist when they are killing you and flanking. no one respected her and that was very clear. it’s the same principle as widowmaker; a widowmaker with 800 dmg after 2 fights is not a threat and doesn’t control fights
There are a ton of Mauga abusers that are boosted by this broken character. I've seen several accounts that are three ranks higher than their highest peek. And it shows with their game sense and knowledge.
What Value was the Lucio getting? To me this whole VOD is chat and Emongg dancing around the fact that Lucio was NOT the pick here and he was forcing the entire team to play around him. The Tank WOULD have been fine playing as aggro as he was (and he was getting picks) but it was made 100x harder by the Frog. Sometimes it’s okay to admit when a Support is at fault. Why is it okay for SlimWeenus to force Lucio but not Tweaks wanting to play aggressively?
It’s not about pointing fingers, it’s about solving problems. Maybe the Lucio pick isn’t optimal, but they wanna play Lucio, so you have to adapt to that
@@samhamwich518 But again, why is it up to everyone else to solve the problem when one persons choice is the reason for the issue? This is a Masters game. The Lucio should KNOW when it’s time to hop off the Frog, everyone else was forced to swap characters and “solve the problem” but not him. And chat and Emongg had NO trouble pointing out that the Tank should have been less aggressive with the low Lucio heals but whatever Frogs gonna Frog and it’s never their fault lol
@@KoiPuff because the sole reason they sent this video was because their TANK accused them of not healing enough.. had their lucio said that to the kiri, emongg most likely would've told them they should get off of lucio to provide more heals
@@KoiPuff I'm reading the comments as I watch the video, so sorry if anything I say is covered after i hit send on this. So he thing is in defense on junker town you can make a Lucio/Mauga work. Mauga has a bunch of natural cover that he can poke in and out of to take pressure off of himself, and Lucio's speed can help greatly with that. If he had played in the main room with the mega in it he could have had the healing of the health pack on lock down, he would have been in control of a small room with little space to maneuver out of his bullet spread if they pressed in to challenge him, his cage fight would have had huge effect in the tight space because a lot of it would have merged with the map geometry so they couldn't pull any shenanigans and bust the shield to end the ult, it would have been a relatively safe spot for the kiri to teleport too in a pinch with them controlling the space, and he would have been relatively safe from the Ana's nade because of the forced routs to attack him from, and the cover he would have had to wait out the effect behind if she did manage to peek him. Lucio in the room giving him speed boost to poke and covering the rear door from a flank means that the Mauga is never caught with his pants down either. Ultimately had the tank communicated with the lucio and they had both done this by the time that the enemy team had pushed to just before the bridge it would have given them a huge advantage, because the only flank style hero that was going up against the Mauga was tracer and thier Kiri. With Hanzo rotating around the area he could have pressured them out, forced duels that his kiri could then peel for and then take out the tracer and oppising Kiri (together they would have had a huge advantage on burst damage and the tracer would likely not be able to survive most engagements). Or he could have been working an off angel and pressuring the Ana so that the bastion could melt the ram. And bastion could be working a suppressive off angle just to keep the Ram, ash, and Ana occupied. The Kiri would be in a good position to peel between the Mauga in the main room and the two DPS guarding main and the flank. The biggest problem this game had so far that I can see if a lack of communication, and it seems to come down to the fact that the tank wants to just sit on main and level buildings with his chain guns instead of engaging the enemies with his head, so he's blaming the lack of healing he's getting instead of taking charge and working with the strengths of his comp and the advantages of the map. Which is why i would argue that the Mauga himself is at fault, and not Lucio for swapping in the first place (even if that would have given them a hypothetical better team comp had he gone ana, or even Moira, if he wasn't good at either of the heroes it would have been net negative value anyway, and regardless playing in that room would have been a better choice of positioning overall anyway, regardless of comp).
Lucio outside of a brawl comp provides almost no value except maybe BEAT. The team lacked a lot of burst healing needed to sustain on top of the tank constantly playing out of position.
That Kiri despite they were forced to healbot as they had Lucio as second support did almost nothing to enemy Tracer and just throwing some random kunais to nowhere between ofudas. It was def not battle Kiriko and I think if they went Ana it would be just elim by elim on them made by Tracer
Wait did the tank blame both supports or just the kiri, cause honestly it ain't on the kiri 😂 further in, this ain't on either support lmao tf this tank doing
I’m not gonna lie - the Lucio threw. We’re talking a lot about the tank and the kiri but this game would’ve gone a lot smoother if Lucio hadn’t been such a Lucio player and switched off to Ana or Bap as a second, more consistent support line.
I dunno, if my tank was so far ahead of the point that I can't keep them alive... I'd consider playing Lifeweaver. Just give Zarya a soft reset to get her bubbles back.
The kiriko ana match up is about even. Actually, I would argue Ana has a slight edge 1) Cooldown cycles: Ana's nade has a shorter cooldown than suzu, meaning you can't cleanse every anti-nade. Additionally, Ana has a sleep dart. A well-timed sleep dart makes kiriko choose between cleansing anti-nade or cleansing sleep dart. 2) Damage / healing output: Ana's scoped rifle shots are hitscan compared to kiriko's projectile. Although, theoretically, kiriko has higher damage output, she has to hit headshots on a projectile weapon while Ana just needs to land 3 hitscan bodyshots. With regards to healing, Ana signignificantly outheals kiriko, especially on large targets like tanks. A note on mirror matchups: Mirror match ups bring symettry between team strengths. Remember: if both teams have Ana, both teams have anti-nade. Your Maugua may get anti-ed but you also have the opportunity to anti the enemy maugua.
I would say Mauga does benefit from Lucio's speed boost and distraction quite a lot. He can close the distance faster to do more damage and get behind cover quicker. But yes it's not a fire-and-forget effect like Anas grenade and dart. The tank also has to utilize the mobility advantage.
Personally I relate to the feeling of needing to heal more when I recognize that i'm the support that has and can pump out heals more. The one thing that just really bothered me in the gameplay is the kunais. Trying to get a crit hit in between stressful healing can be hard but some kunais are thrown miles away from where the enemy is (like when they throw some and there is a cover in front of them).
no, it’s not normal - this isn’t what a masters support player looks like if they climbed naturally. this is someone who has been boosted by a duo or friend group while playing another hero (mercy). their positioning is wrong, because they aren’t used to positioning in enemy sight lines. they don’t do enough dmg to win fights, they don’t use their abilities effectively (even to a plat level) like you pointed out. there is a million things they did wrong that indicate they have never played kiriko before in ladder. this person will drop to low diamond because they play extremely passively.
The biggest issue is "under-skilled" kirikos waste suzu like a discount Ana nade, yes it heals but don't just waste it if someone is behind cover out of danger, its fine to use as a pseudo nade for healing if you're in a fight, but out of any danger there's no need. And TPing more to get close and heal is definitely better, because your papers take so long to get to people that its better to TP to them to heal, like here at 10:32, I would have TP'ed to bastion and healed him rather than having such a wide gap between him and yourself as soon as I saw him go crit, as much as her papers have a long lock on range having them fly for so long is not ideal.
some player are stuck either cause they are solo player or they already have bad mmr on their account (thats why some U2GM challenge they often make a new acc when they getting stuck too long), and there is some player are ranked up easily cause they getting boosted (u should know this is a thing), buying account or playing with friends/high rank friends that are consistent and make smurf acc to help them friend ranked up. So i would understand when seeing chat saying stuff like that :)
@@araven2293 no, chat and the comments talk shit because they are assholes who want to feel superior to others so they talk shit about a complete stranger. they're stuck in silver and gold because they're trash at the game and are too scared to do the work necessary to climb. I'm sorry but that's the truth. I want you to actually read the twitch chat in the video and then read the comments. then, I want you to come back and try to defend them again.
@@sethescope yea i understand that they are, i never say they are not an asshole.. but remember they just showing what they feel, some of them being asshole to feel superior and feed their ego, some other just frustrated cause they feel "unlucky" or "unfairness" by some factor in game.. this is a vid about review, ofc there will be a lot "comparing" and critique even it's from good or bad player, people saying good and bad stuff, and then what should i do if i read the chat again? change my mind and being asshole by shit talking back them too?
get out of gold in high sr lobbies esp GM if u don’t heal your teammates as soon as they lose health u can easily lose fights + the other support is lucio
With a comp like this kiri is the one that would pump in more heals. I'd say that they could definitely have tried out some plays here and there but with Mauga as tank and Lucio as second support (especially with tank playing as they are) more ofudas would definitely be thrown.
i thought everyone knew that lol, if you’re playing kiri with bap window, you can almost one shot with kunai’s and also the ofuda’s fully charge with one whiff
I've watched Jay3's diamond player in masters PC lobby matches, as a diamond PC support I would say masters lobbies are way more fast paced than diamond ones. Hearing that this masters kiri is on console, i think she did ok except for wasting suzus and missing heals like what emongg said. If she's on PC she would had probably be on gold.
Too many aggressive tanks and dps players these days. As someone who plays tank and dps I feel ashamed of some people playstyles even when I play Mauga I still play with my team. I take the hits and force people out of certain areas with his spread and poke damage.
A key issue they're having on both Kiri and Bap, is they're not utilizing their positioning opportunities most of the time. They're not looking for off angles, high grounds, pressure, etc. They tend to often either stick with a dps or just stay dead center in main somewhere behind their tank, which means any rng abilities or ults thrown in their team's general direction by the enemy, is likely to catch them too by default. This is a gold mistake, and while it's not as egregious as a gold player, it's still a clear issue. There were many times where they got zoned out or caught in a grav that they should never have been close to in the first place. And the lack of off angling and contesting enemy dps space on high grounds, means the enemy has basically nothing to worry about. If I was a dps on the enemy team, I would not have paid this Kiri/Bap player any consideration whatsoever. I would not have seen their impact, I would not have had to account for them in my own decisionmaking at all. And that's a really bad sign for a Masters player who wants to climb into GM. You have to be noticeable. You have to be someone that the enemy has to consider in their plans of action. You can not be having so little general impact that the enemy can afford to forget that you exist. This is really something you need to work on, and it starts with simple off angling, pressure, and contesting dps space that you uniquely have access to, whenever possible. You have two super-cheap no aim bail abilities with both Kiri and Bap. You can contest any space vs virtually any dps and either win the duel or get out alive without having to really break a sweat. Start utilizing this hero advantage, now. You gotta unlock your creativity with this, and think a little ahead instead of just reacting to what the enemy is doing all the time. Also, do you comm? Because this would be an exact situation where comms can help to manage your tank's aggression if they constantly know when they can/can't push with your support followup. This is the elo where that stuff starts to matter because overaggression gets punished swiftly. Even if they don't talk back, as long as they're in vc they'll hear your calls and at least have a better shot at making informed decisions for when to push/fall back. As tank, they have the least visual awareness of what the rest of their team is doing due to them playing at the front. Good tanks will make a habit of checking behind them now and then before they commit to plays, but you're in Masters and shouldn't expect to have good tanks every game (game sense wise).
LOL agreed. lucio and moira two useless characters, that are only situational and strong in certain comps and they always refuse to swap, very irritating
....the lucio was the issue the entire game. sure there were some weird plays and weirds ults that kiri and tank did but. what was the lucio doing? if they had switched to someone with more value, they would've put up more of a fight LMFAO. love lucio and his players but he was nottt the pick here
ima be a hater but idk why people play lucio at all. period these days. “but speed boost” who cares? half the characters in the game are already speedy and kiri ult already has speed boost, if only that lucio swapped to ana or something, ana kiri is a way better comp
@@armando5994Lucio is pretty good with brawl comps and even more valuable if there are comms in game. A well-timed speed amp to either engage or disengage can decide how a fight goes (I especially find it satisfying to have speed amp available when enemy orisa/sigma is ulting) Queen can be speedy but it's a cooldown usage while Lucio can stay on speed if heals aren't needed and everyone can benefit from that.
Blue team is about as skilled as my gold rank games. Crazy this is Masters. That being said they need a kiriko to save the antis and contest tracer flanks, but suzu is just being forced out from regular damage because the team has bad positioning and second support is a lucio, and if kiriko even tries to duel tracer for a second someone is going to die.
im guessing the shooting at walls is supposed to be 'animation cancelling' which ppl believe is supposed to make their healing output faster which is why on a lot of occasions they'd randomly throw kunais in between their healing ofudas. not sure abt the suzu usage tho, but it wasnt all THAT bad!! as for how this is a masters? you can see this is a console gameplay and if you didn't know, it's quite easy to climb to masters on console, but it's a different story on pc ofc.
how is this guy Masters??? his aim with the kunai's is honestly just terrible. in the first 4 minutes of the game hit a total of 19 kunai's NOT A SINGLE CRIT hit and is sometimes just randomly shooting at he walls and ground. also he misses at ton of his healing because u have to aim at the character otherwise the papers dont lock on and only a couple of em actually heal .... i have 40% accuracy with 22% crit rate on kiriko, im a gold 4 support, 7k healing and 4k dmg per 10 minutes on average 😓
Then either u re all aim no brain, and fundamentally u playing this game wrong in some big way or u re exaggerating ur stats…. or maybe with that crit and damage output u just spamming tank to pad stats. Either way wtv u re doing is the reason u re in gold. This Kiri isn’t having the best game but this gameplay is far from gold. I genuinely despise ppl who use stats as copium. Personal opinion u re the kiri who spam tanks rather than go on a flank and complain about ur dps not doing enuf when in fact u re the one bringing minimal value to ur team playing the way u do.
@@riviera7775 not sure. I am at lvl 4 endorsements so guess im doing something right. i dont spam the tank that much unless its mauga. most of the time when i attack i either focus the dps/supports close to the tank or the supports in the back because kiri has no dmg drop off and can get some juicy picks on scoping ana's. not sure if a single support can make the difference because thats how u make it sound. when u have a team like in this video with a tank keeps engaging and going deep the bastion keeps getting killed u cant really do all that much. in gold ranking the skill variation is huge 1 match u get that dps and tank that absolutely destroy the enemy team. the next game they are your opponents. its just luck of the draw
Damn, console Overwatch is literally a joke. This "Masters'' match looks like a PC silver 5 match. I don't even want to know what silver gameplay looks like in comsole.
How is this healbot masters? I am also masters in all roles, and I am playing kiriko much more agressively, half dps half heals. This guy heals 90% of the time and does a bit of damage from the backline, not even off angles.
@@mannyheffley4599 what are you trying to argue? that being in masters isn't a big deal just because there are hypothetically people who are in that rank but don't play at a masters level? I legitimately don't understand what your point is supposed to be. could you explain your thoughts a bit more?
No shot this is a masters lobby. Masters on pc players are very good. Masters on console arguably slightly worse than pc lobbies. This looks like my gold/plat console lobbies. Enemy tank is the only 1 that looks like a masters player.
I find this game to be. Interesting, to say the least, however. There is one problem. I am not in it yet, and I should be. The fact that I am not in this game yet, is a sin.
@@GummyDinosaursify how dare you, filthy mortal. Don't you know who I am. I am zamasu. I am a god. You simply prove my point that all mortals are a sin on this world, that should be purged by me. Zamasu
i love when chat acts like high elo players can’t make mistakes like they aren’t gold😂
Agree, people act like they have never seen the tourneys/OWL 😂
Honestly I’m master to and some of them are not bad
The chat seeing simple mistakes and immediately hounding on the person making them is actually so funny. Something about having a spectator’s perspective and a high level player talking them through the replay makes them think they’re untouchable.
@@harm0ny_ lol it's not even like the master in question was cocky or anything, they just wanted advice to get better. unfortunately though, gold/plat chat wants to use this high level player's mistakes to prove to themselves that they deserve a higher rank themselves
@@jaowq3826 You got it right on the nose. Lower tier players always grip onto mistakes and go “Oh I wouldn’t do that.” Without acknowledging they also wouldn’t make the actual good plays.
It's unfortunate how many tanks don't realize that you don't always have to be up the other team's ass to win a team fight.
Lol but I like being on the team cheeks gotta slam my hammer somewhere 😂
That's the thing, you'll get players who say, "bro why you not up front?" Well 1 not all heroes plays frontline and 2 I'm taking way too many hits that i need to back up. Just sucks cause some players' mentality is pretty bad
@@Dat1AsianGuy I definitely get that. The most common problem I have is that when we have an advantage and a frontline push is warranted, nobody commits. Then, after we've used our cooldowns, somebody decides it's a good time to push into the backline because surely the enemy team is also out of cooldowns and vulnerable. Sometimes it does work out, but rarely, and only if everyone runs in at once. Enemy team gets picks, supps try to survive/escape, by the time the rest of the team is back the supps are dead and it snowballs from there.
@@azuresky2301yea I don’t know what rank you are but I used to have this problem when I was low elo around plat I used to never keep track of cooldowns and use my ability blindly usually you want to keep them till your enemy use them and then you counter push.a good example is if your playing zarya you need to be pasient with your buble and used them to clear abilities like naid and that’s basically how I claimed to master
Well except if your playing mauga then you can just run it down mid pressing mouse bouton one whill jerking of
Hell, sometimes I play Zarya at mid-line or even backline together with my supports. Not always, of course, because you have to adjust to your team's gameplay, but sometimes I realized that playing backline Zarya is a great strategy. That mostly happens when my teammates are very aggressive (especially if my DPS are dive heroes) and my supports need peeling. Then I kind of play Zarya as a tank/support hybrid where I stay behind, bubble the hell out of my teammates to protect them, shoot my secondary fire, then I go on sudden aggressive bursts of damage when my Particle Cannon is at 100 and the enemies don't have enough cooldowns. It really messes with the enemy's idea of a tank.
If I rush too much like the Zarya on this video and my DPS are not with my supports, then they're gonna struggle and, by consequence, they're not gonna be able to heal me and my DPS. By positioning myself behind, I feel a bit like a chess player, bubbling my teammates carefully and then being aggressive when it's the right time.
It depends a lot on the map too, of course. I think the takeaway from all this is that you should be able to adjust to many types of gameplay even when you're using the same hero in different matches.
When your tank goes muaga your team turns into babysitters that has to take care of the big baby running around with no thoughts
The Lucio stealing the suzu from the bastion in the beginning is just too real regardless of whether the suU was needed
1:35
suU
@@eltrylol oh shoot, my simlish slipped
@@HmongHeroo lmao
Honestly in a lot of cases I wish Suzu would only detonate on hard surfaces and shields, not player models
Lucio and moiras will steal suzu and nano every time.
That tank can immediately go to hell if he thinks he wasn’t receiving heals.
she is very obviously missing most of the ofudas though even with los
@@atespeach5672not the point
@@atespeach5672yeah but that’s standard for Kiriko.
nah its both he didnt get a ton of heals and he was playing like an idiot. id mostly put it on the tank tho
Hard to heal you when you're out of position :)
I’m working my way thru Diamond (support) rn and it makes me sad to see that even in Masters tanks still don’t know when to back off and just don’t realize there’s not enough healing to cover their want to be so aggressive
in that same light, though, even masters players make mistakes- and to be a masters ranked player, you don’t have to be perfect!! you’re allowed to mess up
it def is still sad, don’t get me wrong- i’m working my way through plat (also support) so seeing diamond and masters games where those players make mistakes (especially related to peeling for supports and the like) is both a little worrisome and a little relieving- as odd as that is lol
wishing you luck getting through diamond!! i’m hoping to reach it by the end of the season
@@kirbysthiccthighs I don’t think you have to be perfect but I think doing something like that is less of a mistake and more of a bad game sense.
the plat chat flaming the missed knives is insane. like do they even play kiriko? even the best kiri's have like a 30% accuracy unless she's allowed to play flank kiri which in the game's current state, isnt really viable unless you're so much better than the entire lobby
i’m gm2 supp but have played a lot of masters games and tbh if i played kiri like this in diamond even.. and missed this many shots + had no impactful dmg at all.. and was this slow to initiate fights with ults.. it would be EXTREMELY hard to win a game. emongg is incredibly forgiving and gives the benefit of the doubt but this is a really bad game and she didn’t do anything at all to help her team in an impactful way. the tank complained about heals but her suzu’s were messy and early, she couldn’t hit a shot.. the only thing she did right was hit half of her ufadas - she should have just healbotted on ana to be more impactful.
@@muddy_puppy_mofo exactly, that's why I don't think this is PC game, I'm about 95% sure its console and even then, it's rough lol
@AnEnragedCat ain't no way we see mouse flick all around 11:20 and in general throughout this game and think it's on console. The movement is way to quick and isn't at the same speed for it to be console.
@@muddy_puppy_mofotbh I disagree, I feel like it's a similar principle to Zenyatta, you kind of have to respect that a single Kiriko headshot can take you out of the fight. You have to respect that they exist, and by just existing there as Kiri she's providing pressure (even if she's missing)
Yeah Ana would've definitely been better but the Kiriko genuinely didn't play that bad at a positioning/macro level.
@@nixsnowsong6732 you respect they exist when they are killing you and flanking. no one respected her and that was very clear. it’s the same principle as widowmaker; a widowmaker with 800 dmg after 2 fights is not a threat and doesn’t control fights
Love that he gets progressively closer and louder to the screen during the first greeting😂❤
I wonder if people are getting to higher ranks than they should purely because they're one tricking mauga and forcing their team to pocket them
I wouldn't be surprised.
@@GummyDinosaursifyseen a plat in gm this season
metro
Yeah I've seen so many accounts this season go from gold to masters or gm it's crazy
There are a ton of Mauga abusers that are boosted by this broken character. I've seen several accounts that are three ranks higher than their highest peek. And it shows with their game sense and knowledge.
I watched a silver one before this and the difference in the speed of the match is kinda nuts.
What Value was the Lucio getting? To me this whole VOD is chat and Emongg dancing around the fact that Lucio was NOT the pick here and he was forcing the entire team to play around him. The Tank WOULD have been fine playing as aggro as he was (and he was getting picks) but it was made 100x harder by the Frog. Sometimes it’s okay to admit when a Support is at fault. Why is it okay for SlimWeenus to force Lucio but not Tweaks wanting to play aggressively?
It’s not about pointing fingers, it’s about solving problems. Maybe the Lucio pick isn’t optimal, but they wanna play Lucio, so you have to adapt to that
@@samhamwich518 But again, why is it up to everyone else to solve the problem when one persons choice is the reason for the issue? This is a Masters game. The Lucio should KNOW when it’s time to hop off the Frog, everyone else was forced to swap characters and “solve the problem” but not him. And chat and Emongg had NO trouble pointing out that the Tank should have been less aggressive with the low Lucio heals but whatever Frogs gonna Frog and it’s never their fault lol
@@KoiPuff because the sole reason they sent this video was because their TANK accused them of not healing enough.. had their lucio said that to the kiri, emongg most likely would've told them they should get off of lucio to provide more heals
@@KoiPuff I'm reading the comments as I watch the video, so sorry if anything I say is covered after i hit send on this.
So he thing is in defense on junker town you can make a Lucio/Mauga work. Mauga has a bunch of natural cover that he can poke in and out of to take pressure off of himself, and Lucio's speed can help greatly with that. If he had played in the main room with the mega in it he could have had the healing of the health pack on lock down, he would have been in control of a small room with little space to maneuver out of his bullet spread if they pressed in to challenge him, his cage fight would have had huge effect in the tight space because a lot of it would have merged with the map geometry so they couldn't pull any shenanigans and bust the shield to end the ult, it would have been a relatively safe spot for the kiri to teleport too in a pinch with them controlling the space, and he would have been relatively safe from the Ana's nade because of the forced routs to attack him from, and the cover he would have had to wait out the effect behind if she did manage to peek him. Lucio in the room giving him speed boost to poke and covering the rear door from a flank means that the Mauga is never caught with his pants down either.
Ultimately had the tank communicated with the lucio and they had both done this by the time that the enemy team had pushed to just before the bridge it would have given them a huge advantage, because the only flank style hero that was going up against the Mauga was tracer and thier Kiri. With Hanzo rotating around the area he could have pressured them out, forced duels that his kiri could then peel for and then take out the tracer and oppising Kiri (together they would have had a huge advantage on burst damage and the tracer would likely not be able to survive most engagements). Or he could have been working an off angel and pressuring the Ana so that the bastion could melt the ram. And bastion could be working a suppressive off angle just to keep the Ram, ash, and Ana occupied. The Kiri would be in a good position to peel between the Mauga in the main room and the two DPS guarding main and the flank.
The biggest problem this game had so far that I can see if a lack of communication, and it seems to come down to the fact that the tank wants to just sit on main and level buildings with his chain guns instead of engaging the enemies with his head, so he's blaming the lack of healing he's getting instead of taking charge and working with the strengths of his comp and the advantages of the map. Which is why i would argue that the Mauga himself is at fault, and not Lucio for swapping in the first place (even if that would have given them a hypothetical better team comp had he gone ana, or even Moira, if he wasn't good at either of the heroes it would have been net negative value anyway, and regardless playing in that room would have been a better choice of positioning overall anyway, regardless of comp).
Lucio outside of a brawl comp provides almost no value except maybe BEAT. The team lacked a lot of burst healing needed to sustain on top of the tank constantly playing out of position.
Intro went HARD today
Yes it did lmao
That Kiri despite they were forced to healbot as they had Lucio as second support did almost nothing to enemy Tracer and just throwing some random kunais to nowhere between ofudas. It was def not battle Kiriko and I think if they went Ana it would be just elim by elim on them made by Tracer
I really like this more ig a bit more serious spectate and I rlly look forward to seeing more spectates of higher elo players !!!
Oh my god i had to pause to come type how much I *HATE* that they keep canceling the reload animation
It's unfortunate. Sometimes you wanna have it finish but you needa heal
@@hardcase8003 her kit overall feels super glitchy and clunky.
Honestly I find reload canceling a privilege and a feature. Even if it kinda is at the expense of triggering ocd
Wait did the tank blame both supports or just the kiri, cause honestly it ain't on the kiri 😂 further in, this ain't on either support lmao tf this tank doing
kiri was fine, its the lucio who was doing absolutely nothing
"How is this guy masters?🤓"
By winning games.🗿
Me with 12k healing 16-4 34 effect cleanses 8 saves 30 kitsun assist watching tank say “GG support dif”
I’m not gonna lie - the Lucio threw. We’re talking a lot about the tank and the kiri but this game would’ve gone a lot smoother if Lucio hadn’t been such a Lucio player and switched off to Ana or Bap as a second, more consistent support line.
I dunno, if my tank was so far ahead of the point that I can't keep them alive... I'd consider playing Lifeweaver. Just give Zarya a soft reset to get her bubbles back.
So even tho the other team has an Ana you would still suggest for the kiri to switch to Ana? I figured you’d stay Kiri so you can cleanse the nades
Ana has better and quicker burst healing potential and the utility of nade is more useful IMO
The kiriko ana match up is about even. Actually, I would argue Ana has a slight edge
1) Cooldown cycles: Ana's nade has a shorter cooldown than suzu, meaning you can't cleanse every anti-nade. Additionally, Ana has a sleep dart. A well-timed sleep dart makes kiriko choose between cleansing anti-nade or cleansing sleep dart.
2) Damage / healing output: Ana's scoped rifle shots are hitscan compared to kiriko's projectile. Although, theoretically, kiriko has higher damage output, she has to hit headshots on a projectile weapon while Ana just needs to land 3 hitscan bodyshots. With regards to healing, Ana signignificantly outheals kiriko, especially on large targets like tanks.
A note on mirror matchups: Mirror match ups bring symettry between team strengths. Remember: if both teams have Ana, both teams have anti-nade. Your Maugua may get anti-ed but you also have the opportunity to anti the enemy maugua.
@@gogglesow1358 Kiri definitely has a better DPS potential and mobility on her side.
Some tanks just think they are DPS. Like this tank
what are you even confused about?@stevenluoma1268
I don’t know what are aiming at most of the time it’s feels like they are just throwing these knives to get rid of them
probably took the “you can throw a kunai between heals” to heart
That intro definitely woke me up.
I would say Mauga does benefit from Lucio's speed boost and distraction quite a lot. He can close the distance faster to do more damage and get behind cover quicker. But yes it's not a fire-and-forget effect like Anas grenade and dart. The tank also has to utilize the mobility advantage.
Does kirikos healing ofuda get boosted through the bap window too?
yea
Yes
yh
I think the bap window makes a little noise to let you know if its boosted or not.
it does and so does moira’s
Personally I relate to the feeling of needing to heal more when I recognize that i'm the support that has and can pump out heals more. The one thing that just really bothered me in the gameplay is the kunais. Trying to get a crit hit in between stressful healing can be hard but some kunais are thrown miles away from where the enemy is (like when they throw some and there is a cover in front of them).
I hate the mauga meta! but thank you for reviewing this kiriko player, so I can learn to be a better support for the billion mauga players this season
Please tell us if it's a console game at the start. Thanks
1:14 masters kiri with suzus like this? Im plat and im confused
no, it’s not normal - this isn’t what a masters support player looks like if they climbed naturally. this is someone who has been boosted by a duo or friend group while playing another hero (mercy). their positioning is wrong, because they aren’t used to positioning in enemy sight lines. they don’t do enough dmg to win fights, they don’t use their abilities effectively (even to a plat level) like you pointed out. there is a million things they did wrong that indicate they have never played kiriko before in ladder. this person will drop to low diamond because they play extremely passively.
The biggest issue is "under-skilled" kirikos waste suzu like a discount Ana nade, yes it heals but don't just waste it if someone is behind cover out of danger, its fine to use as a pseudo nade for healing if you're in a fight, but out of any danger there's no need.
And TPing more to get close and heal is definitely better, because your papers take so long to get to people that its better to TP to them to heal, like here at 10:32, I would have TP'ed to bastion and healed him rather than having such a wide gap between him and yourself as soon as I saw him go crit, as much as her papers have a long lock on range having them fly for so long is not ideal.
That Kiriko was doing great, but the Tank was making that match harder than it needed up be
It's so annoying when they spam "I need healing" as I'm actively healing them. And they just turn around to me throwing papers at them.
use window asap because it comes very quickly for bap
watching twitch chat talk shit about a masters player is so funny when they've all been stuck in silver and gold for the past five years straight :)
some player are stuck either cause they are solo player or they already have bad mmr on their account (thats why some U2GM challenge they often make a new acc when they getting stuck too long), and there is some player are ranked up easily cause they getting boosted (u should know this is a thing), buying account or playing with friends/high rank friends that are consistent and make smurf acc to help them friend ranked up. So i would understand when seeing chat saying stuff like that :)
@@araven2293 no, chat and the comments talk shit because they are assholes who want to feel superior to others so they talk shit about a complete stranger. they're stuck in silver and gold because they're trash at the game and are too scared to do the work necessary to climb. I'm sorry but that's the truth.
I want you to actually read the twitch chat in the video and then read the comments. then, I want you to come back and try to defend them again.
@@sethescope yea i understand that they are, i never say they are not an asshole.. but remember they just showing what they feel, some of them being asshole to feel superior and feed their ego, some other just frustrated cause they feel "unlucky" or "unfairness" by some factor in game.. this is a vid about review, ofc there will be a lot "comparing" and critique even it's from good or bad player, people saying good and bad stuff, and then what should i do if i read the chat again? change my mind and being asshole by shit talking back them too?
Honestly this kiri wasn’t that bad compared to me, I be throwin green cards like I’m immigration services 😂
i’d love to see more higher ranked gameplay
What should have happened is the tank shouldve swapped. He was getting zero value other than value for the zarya, she was full charge the entire game😂
how on earth do you play with a sensitivity so high and not notice you can't hit a single person on the other team
ALRIGHT SO!
was it ever said what tier of masters this is? 😅
i need to clean out my ears now
So many blue papers I'm surprised he is masters
console masters are way worse than pc masters
get out of gold in high sr lobbies esp GM if u don’t heal your teammates as soon as they lose health u can easily lose fights + the other support is lucio
With a comp like this kiri is the one that would pump in more heals. I'd say that they could definitely have tried out some plays here and there but with Mauga as tank and Lucio as second support (especially with tank playing as they are) more ofudas would definitely be thrown.
They don’t feel like masters like they some times just push buttons like suzu 120 go targets
I did not know window increased healing, maybe ill get out of silver now.... probably not but thx for the info.
i thought everyone knew that lol, if you’re playing kiri with bap window, you can almost one shot with kunai’s and also the ofuda’s fully charge with one whiff
I've watched Jay3's diamond player in masters PC lobby matches, as a diamond PC support I would say masters lobbies are way more fast paced than diamond ones. Hearing that this masters kiri is on console, i think she did ok except for wasting suzus and missing heals like what emongg said. If she's on PC she would had probably be on gold.
Too many aggressive tanks and dps players these days. As someone who plays tank and dps I feel ashamed of some people playstyles even when I play Mauga I still play with my team. I take the hits and force people out of certain areas with his spread and poke damage.
AAAIGHTTT SSSOO!
A key issue they're having on both Kiri and Bap, is they're not utilizing their positioning opportunities most of the time. They're not looking for off angles, high grounds, pressure, etc. They tend to often either stick with a dps or just stay dead center in main somewhere behind their tank, which means any rng abilities or ults thrown in their team's general direction by the enemy, is likely to catch them too by default. This is a gold mistake, and while it's not as egregious as a gold player, it's still a clear issue. There were many times where they got zoned out or caught in a grav that they should never have been close to in the first place.
And the lack of off angling and contesting enemy dps space on high grounds, means the enemy has basically nothing to worry about. If I was a dps on the enemy team, I would not have paid this Kiri/Bap player any consideration whatsoever. I would not have seen their impact, I would not have had to account for them in my own decisionmaking at all. And that's a really bad sign for a Masters player who wants to climb into GM. You have to be noticeable. You have to be someone that the enemy has to consider in their plans of action. You can not be having so little general impact that the enemy can afford to forget that you exist. This is really something you need to work on, and it starts with simple off angling, pressure, and contesting dps space that you uniquely have access to, whenever possible. You have two super-cheap no aim bail abilities with both Kiri and Bap. You can contest any space vs virtually any dps and either win the duel or get out alive without having to really break a sweat. Start utilizing this hero advantage, now. You gotta unlock your creativity with this, and think a little ahead instead of just reacting to what the enemy is doing all the time.
Also, do you comm? Because this would be an exact situation where comms can help to manage your tank's aggression if they constantly know when they can/can't push with your support followup. This is the elo where that stuff starts to matter because overaggression gets punished swiftly. Even if they don't talk back, as long as they're in vc they'll hear your calls and at least have a better shot at making informed decisions for when to push/fall back. As tank, they have the least visual awareness of what the rest of their team is doing due to them playing at the front. Good tanks will make a habit of checking behind them now and then before they commit to plays, but you're in Masters and shouldn't expect to have good tanks every game (game sense wise).
i question how a kiri player this passive can even get a positive wr to climb past d5
@@muddy_puppy_mofohealbot kiri is pretty strong tho you’d be surprised
yeah i've noticed but i just don't think you would go positive with this playstyle @@armando5994
I am the only person who thinks this way but has emongg ever reviewed a vod from a control player? Bc I havent ever seen it happen.
he has
Why are you forming your question like it's an opinion lmao
idk I didnt know where to go with this comment honestly@@jawaela
this vod seemed like a controller player
5:35??!! This person is silver at best
the kiriko was fine. It's just the fking Lucio ruining the game. Everytime Lucio, Moiras cost the game and refuse to switch.
LOL agreed. lucio and moira two useless characters, that are only situational and strong in certain comps and they always refuse to swap, very irritating
they should just import ash from paladins, id love to play her in ow
How is this kiri masters wtf
I disagree they seem pretty good.
@@DTDdeathmas the timing on suzu was off 70% of the time she used it, even if they don't main kiriko they should know to keep track of ana nade
It’s console
@@grimsyn8174where was it mentioned they’re on console
@@jackief03probably in the stream. If anything, it’s obvious
....the lucio was the issue the entire game. sure there were some weird plays and weirds ults that kiri and tank did but. what was the lucio doing? if they had switched to someone with more value, they would've put up more of a fight LMFAO. love lucio and his players but he was nottt the pick here
ima be a hater but idk why people play lucio at all. period these days. “but speed boost” who cares? half the characters in the game are already speedy and kiri ult already has speed boost, if only that lucio swapped to ana or something, ana kiri is a way better comp
@@armando5994Lucio is pretty good with brawl comps and even more valuable if there are comms in game. A well-timed speed amp to either engage or disengage can decide how a fight goes (I especially find it satisfying to have speed amp available when enemy orisa/sigma is ulting) Queen can be speedy but it's a cooldown usage while Lucio can stay on speed if heals aren't needed and everyone can benefit from that.
They need to work on aim really bad. should be able to track your teammates and hit headshots at masters level.
If your gonna one trick lucio on defense at least provide a pick, I feel that lucio did nothing all game but build up his stats
I play this same exact way with kiri except my ults are better but my tank and dps be shooting at walls or charging in solo match Making is so bad
Blue team is about as skilled as my gold rank games. Crazy this is Masters. That being said they need a kiriko to save the antis and contest tracer flanks, but suzu is just being forced out from regular damage because the team has bad positioning and second support is a lucio, and if kiriko even tries to duel tracer for a second someone is going to die.
This is a lot of overextending for masters and a lot of wasted suzus too
soooooooooooooooooooo
I aint trying to be toxic but this looks like a gold game not a master's game I'm really confused.
Im sorry but how the heck is this kiri masters theyre randomly shooting walls and their suzu usuage is awful
im guessing the shooting at walls is supposed to be 'animation cancelling' which ppl believe is supposed to make their healing output faster which is why on a lot of occasions they'd randomly throw kunais in between their healing ofudas. not sure abt the suzu usage tho, but it wasnt all THAT bad!! as for how this is a masters? you can see this is a console gameplay and if you didn't know, it's quite easy to climb to masters on console, but it's a different story on pc ofc.
how is this guy Masters??? his aim with the kunai's is honestly just terrible. in the first 4 minutes of the game hit a total of 19 kunai's NOT A SINGLE CRIT hit and is sometimes just randomly shooting at he walls and ground. also he misses at ton of his healing because u have to aim at the character otherwise the papers dont lock on and only a couple of em actually heal .... i have 40% accuracy with 22% crit rate on kiriko, im a gold 4 support, 7k healing and 4k dmg per 10 minutes on average 😓
Why aren't you gm then
Then either u re all aim no brain, and fundamentally u playing this game wrong in some big way or u re exaggerating ur stats…. or maybe with that crit and damage output u just spamming tank to pad stats. Either way wtv u re doing is the reason u re in gold. This Kiri isn’t having the best game but this gameplay is far from gold. I genuinely despise ppl who use stats as copium. Personal opinion u re the kiri who spam tanks rather than go on a flank and complain about ur dps not doing enuf when in fact u re the one bringing minimal value to ur team playing the way u do.
@@katser5023I know right … so triggering lol
@@riviera7775 not sure. I am at lvl 4 endorsements so guess im doing something right. i dont spam the tank that much unless its mauga. most of the time when i attack i either focus the dps/supports close to the tank or the supports in the back because kiri has no dmg drop off and can get some juicy picks on scoping ana's. not sure if a single support can make the difference because thats how u make it sound. when u have a team like in this video with a tank keeps engaging and going deep the bastion keeps getting killed u cant really do all that much. in gold ranking the skill variation is huge 1 match u get that dps and tank that absolutely destroy the enemy team. the next game they are your opponents. its just luck of the draw
@@katser5023 thats what i like to know lol
Damn, console Overwatch is literally a joke. This "Masters'' match looks like a PC silver 5 match. I don't even want to know what silver gameplay looks like in comsole.
I'm Plat on console and this still looks silver to me, I'm done trying to climb if this is masters it ain't worth it
The tanks in masters are so garbage half of them should be in plat or below
masters on console don’t look like this lmfao, this gotta be switch or something
How is this healbot masters? I am also masters in all roles, and I am playing kiriko much more agressively, half dps half heals. This guy heals 90% of the time and does a bit of damage from the backline, not even off angles.
How is this dude masters support?! I play these characters 2 times better than what is shown and im gold
sure you do, bud. sure you do.
lmao, exactly, there's no way this person climbed by themselves, it doesn't even look like they know what they're doing most the time.
@@sethescope it’s not really a bragging right though is it? There are people in masters who shouldn’t be there
@@mannyheffley4599 what are you trying to argue? that being in masters isn't a big deal just because there are hypothetically people who are in that rank but don't play at a masters level? I legitimately don't understand what your point is supposed to be. could you explain your thoughts a bit more?
then you wouldn’t be gold.
No shot this is a masters lobby. Masters on pc players are very good. Masters on console arguably slightly worse than pc lobbies. This looks like my gold/plat console lobbies. Enemy tank is the only 1 that looks like a masters player.
I find this game to be. Interesting, to say the least, however. There is one problem. I am not in it yet, and I should be. The fact that I am not in this game yet, is a sin.
Spambot confirmed
@@GummyDinosaursify how dare you, filthy mortal. Don't you know who I am. I am zamasu. I am a god. You simply prove my point that all mortals are a sin on this world, that should be purged by me. Zamasu
@@Lordhavikclericofkhaosu get no bitches
@@Lordhavikclericofkhaos the amount of cringe you radiate is honestly scary to the point I literally cremate into atoms.
U got 2 many subs for the shitty green screen it’s not that complicated get it together love u
are you familiar with jokes?
lmao emongg is meming